*MUNCH MUNCH* Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney, OUT NOW! *MUNCH MUNCH*

I'll be picking it up later today. Sucks that I couldn't stop myself from reading the complete spoiler of the first case a few months back, but I think I've forgotten most of it by now, so it should be ok.
 
[quote name='kainzero']wow you guys serious?

i played through the first case and i thought it was terrible!
how can they change phoenix wright from a silly hardworking dude to some weirdly cold and calculating bum? god. i hope they explain it later.

i still think the music in PW3 is tops for the series so far =)

i wanted the keychain though and my GS ran out. =([/QUOTE]pfffft yeay rite dood... he's older and wiser and shyt.

it's like 17 year old JEKKI vs 23 year old JEKKI
 
[quote name='Strell']This reminds me. Ordered it from GS.com and I don't think I've gotten a shipping notice. :([/QUOTE]Did you preorder? I preordered like 2 days before release, and I got an email yesterday saying both the game and preorder bonus shipped Tuesday.

I should be getting it tomorrow. *happiness*
 
Hey, I got a question (Case 3 spoilers ahead):

Is the scene with Gavin and what's her face singing, is that anime, 3-D, or a combination of the two? I was stumped through the entire scene
 
[quote name='JEKKI']pfffft yeay rite dood... he's older and wiser and shyt.

it's like 17 year old JEKKI vs 23 year old JEKKI[/quote]
he's more like a big cheater who cheats and thinks way ahead of you anime-style.

that ain't cool.
he's not a lovable guy no mo'

i miss my pw3 and my loli-tastic pearl.
 
I'm on the panty case now, and so far I'm enjoying it. Not too sure why most people who have already played this game, dislike it, but I'm guessing it lacks a majority of the older characters who made the series what it is. But I'm hoping the game will continue to be as good as what it's displayed atm.

Damn I miss Edgeworth :whistle2:(

Btw, the part in the first case where you sense Olga is lying and the screen goes all funny, anyone else get startled? It caught me by surprise lol
 
[quote name='Keiotic']I'm on the panty case now, and so far I'm enjoying it. Not too sure why most people who have already played this game, dislike it, but I'm guessing it lacks a majority of the older characters who made the series what it is. But I'm hoping the game will continue to be as good as what it's displayed atm.

Btw, the part in the first case where you sense Olga is lying and the screen goes all funny, anyone else get startled? It caught me by surprise lol
[/quote]
I can't say I dislike it. I actually think Case 2 is fun, although it is kinda easy.

I just don't like what they did in Case 1...
...messing up the memory of PW like that. Man. And random murderer turns out to be your boss? What the hell? He coulda testified saying he was nowhere close, but he had to say he watched through the window. Why the hell would you do that? It just seemed too ridiculous for me, but maybe it'll come together in "THAT" incident 7 years ago. Typical JPN story telling... =)

As for your spoiler... that's why you read the manual! =P
 
[quote name='kainzero']As for your spoiler... that's why you read the manual! =P[/quote]

I browse through the manuals, but I don't really study them ;)

Brb, gotta locate these panties ;)
 
Hmm... Finished the game today. I enjoyed the enhanced character designs, animation, and music. The touch-screen integrations also worked well when they were around. Apollo is also a pretty good protaganist, certainly had no complaints about him. Same goes for Trucy, who is a good source of humor, along with Phoenix, during the investigation sequences. I had quite a few gripes with the final case though. Obviously, major spoilers ahead.
- To be honest, it was probably the lamest final case in the entire series thus far. It starts off as pretty interesting, but bad signs start to surface after the first trial ends, where the story goes into a flashback to the case where Phoenix lost his badge.
The actual problems don't start until after the flashback case, when things start to get really bizarre. This part basically ruined the momentum that the case had going. Why? For anyone who has ever watched Gundam Seed Destiny, remember the ending, and the biggest complaint about it? Same deal here with this game's ending.
- It is at this bizzare point where I felt that the Logic Editor must have taken a vacation, and as you play through this segment, you'll clearly see why by the time that the segment ends. During the entire segment, you play as past and present Phoenix, who is essentially showing the connection between Phoenix's current situation and the after-math of the fateful trial, while revealing some twists along the way. Apollo, along with the touch-screen functionality (And side characters such as Ema), is effectively relegated to the silent sidelines until this section is over.
- When you finally play as Apollo again, it is incredibly brief, only for a Perceive segment and a few pieces of evidence. You also get to find out that you are able to participate in the much-touted "Jurist System,"
only to find that it's just an anti-climatic "Would you like to win the game? Yes/No" choice. Seriously, there is no thought required in this scene, just press the obviously correct button and get the good ending. As a result, it feels like the entire ending segments of the game were... rushed. Apollo doesn't get the requisite climatic courtroom showdown after doing the necessary footwork. Instead, Phoenix takes most of the shine away in his bizarre section, leaving Apollo with simply tying up the obvious loose ends. And to top it off, the final villain's motivations are pretty lame
"GRRR, THE CLIENT CHOSE WRIGHT OVER ME, THEY BOTH DESERVE DEATH!"
In the end, I found myself enjoying cases 2 and 3 of this game far more than case 4. Case 4 just gave me the old "That's It?" feeling of a poor ending.

I also had some miscellaneous gripes about the game:
- Honestly, the prosecutor in this game, Klavier Gavin, may have nice animations and a good theme song, but he is perhaps the lamest prosecutor in the series as both a character and a rival. As I stated long ago in this topic, he's just a rock star bishie through-and-through, and playing through this game pretty much proves it. I felt no courtroom tension between him and Apollo, unlike the tension felt between Phoenix and his rivals (Edgeworth, Manfred, Franziska, and Godot).
He has no interesting quirks, outside of being a rock star and a prosecutor, which means that he doesn't come with a mysterious past nor does he use any questionable methods (Other than, "Oh yeah, did I forget to mention this evidence?"). In court, he spends most of the time verbally ridiculing Apollo whenever he gets the chance. His character development is pretty much flatlined from the beginning, where he states to Apollo that all he cares about is "Finding the truth!" Thus, he ends up guiding Apollo through points in the trial when Apollo is confused. And by the end of the game, he still has this attitude, considering Apollo as a friendly rival; nothing has really changed. There's not even a climatic tag-team against the final villain. Like I said, flatlined. Hopefully, the prosecutor for the next game will be more interesting.

- I also did not like the low occurrences of touchscreen interaction. I enjoyed Case 5 of the first game due to the way it combined fingerprinting, blood tests, and security camera footage with the plot of the case. In this game, you'll generally have about one or two unique touchscreen segment per case, but for the most part, you'll only see a segment for one case and never see it again in any of the other cases. Even fingerprinting is limited to one case.

- Remember how in the first three games, when you beat a case, it shows the appropriate character/episode art in the background at the select episode screen? Not anymore in this game. Even after you beat a case, it still shows the generic courtroom background.

- Overall, this game, despite having much better music and graphics, is somewhat of a step back story-wise, especially after the amazing story-telling in the fifth case of the first game, and most of the cases in the third game. The ending segments and over-arching plot felt rushed, the touch-screen implementation was too sparse, serving more as samples in the game instead of reoccurring gameplay conventions. To reiterate, I enjoyed Apollo as a protagonist, he is a suitable replacement for Phoenix (Unlike, say, Raiden for Snake). Hopefully he'll get a better rival and a proper climatic showdown in the next game. Plus, it would be nice to see them work on a certain late-game system, giving it an actual use next time.
 
I fully agree about the lack of
the after-case art
. I was a nice little bonus.

However, I think the main reason a lot of people don't like this game is the lack of characters they know. I think when AA5 comes out (and yes, it is announced as of May 2007) people will like that more.

Think about AA1 (minus Case 5) when it was on GBA, there isn't much character development in the AA1 cases that were in the original game. If AJ becomes a trilogy like Phoenix, than here is the way it'll probably look (if it follows the original trilogy):
Game 1: Introduction to the characters with a couple of major "suprises"
Game 2: Character Development
Game 3: Wrap-Up

If you look at Justice for All, it really helped the cast development, even though the majority of the cases (minus Case 4) were lacking.
 
I can't read your spoiler since I'm not finished yet, but I was pissed off at Case 3. A little science goes a long way:

Look how small that kid was. If he shot that dude in the shoulder, the bullet holes would be in the ceiling, not the opposing wall. Come on now!
I was also confused how that singer chick could tell you were holding the brooch when you showed it to her.

Or how about Case 2?

Why the hell do you have to prove that he didn't take the car? The fact is, he DID take the cart! Didn't they use this defense in another PW game?

I am enjoying the game though, even if the puzzles are frustrating. The addition of more varied crime-solving tools is definitely welcome and it helps to establish different angles for the various cases.

As for the new characters, so far, they're alright. Apollo and Trucy are pretty much carbon copies of old Phoenix and Maya so it's all good.
 
Since it seems the old characters aren't actually removed from the game into Case 2, I don't think they're quite missed yet. Can't miss you if you never leave.
 
[quote name='Mr. Beef']But does the older JEKKI have the youthful energy and style of the younger JEKKI?[/QUOTE]yo man, old JEKKI gets down like the 2nd case of Apollo Justice...

u kno what I mean?!?!

it's like ugh ugh! I aint sayin she a gold digger...

but uhh! she aint messin with no broke.. broke... broke...

ugh!

get down girl go yeay get down! ugh!

get down girl go yeay get down! ugh!

I tell u, that's the skill!! the skill, wisdom, and experience!

and the energy and style too!!
 
[quote name='JEKKI']yo man, old JEKKI gets down like the 2nd case of Apollo Justice...

u kno what I mean?!?!

it's like ugh ugh! I aint sayin she a gold digger...

but uhh! she aint messin with no broke.. broke... broke...

ugh!

get down girl go yeay get down! ugh!

get down girl go yeay get down! ugh!

I tell u, that's the skill!! the skill, wisdom, and experience!

and the energy and style too!![/quote]


Thank you.
That explains so much.
 
[quote name='JEKKI']yo man, old JEKKI gets down like the 2nd case of Apollo Justice...

u kno what I mean?!?!

it's like ugh ugh! I aint sayin she a gold digger...

but uhh! she aint messin with no broke.. broke... broke...

ugh!

get down girl go yeay get down! ugh!

get down girl go yeay get down! ugh!

I tell u, that's the skill!! the skill, wisdom, and experience!

and the energy and style too!![/quote]
Aw yeah, there's the JEKKI we all know and love. :bouncy:
My apologies for ever doubting you, mang.
 
Wow, Capcom done it again. This game is truely another beautiful game to add to the series. I am loving it so much.
 
Mmm, I just finished the game. The ending was pretty sick. I'll break it down, how I feel about the game.

Case 1:
Case 1: First of all, too much "WTF" moments. How the hell are you gonna incriminate your boss? I make it a point to massively dislike anime / videogames in which games make you think "WTF is going on" and then explain it later. I really didn't like it. However, what I did like is that it was more of a case than in the previous games when things seemed mega obvious.

Case 2:
Starting this case off felt really long-winded and chore-filled. Find my panties, who ran over Phoenix, etc. I also got stuck in the investigation when you had to re-examine the trashcan to get the slippers. But I really like how this case finished, it was a good case and fun to string together.

Case 3:
Had a lot of trouble getting into this case too, although I started liking that Klavier theme song. I still resent how you couldn't prove that kid was guilty based on shooting angles, but I did like the usage of the mixer and videotape to find out a lot of the evidence, it was a really clever way of revealing that magic trick. And I thought the actual video looked pretty cool too =P Unlike the 1st Case, I welcomed the surprise suspect, but I didn't really feel too good about the defendant... hard to really care about who your defending. Also, I didn't like how it didn't have a typical run-through of how the case was really played out, and plus, when did the defendant meet the real killer?

Case 4:
It had a real sick beginning to it. And I loved that flashback + investigation part... but the investigation was way too revealing. The trial continuation was so anti-climactic that it almost felt like a procedural run through. But it was still nice to see that Phoenix wasn't that wiener character in anime that knows everything in advance, but actually still needs to think and stuff, and how much work he put into it. Jurist system was kinda a cop out... why the hell was the judge declaring victory here and there when he couldn't? They need to take that out. And I don't know why they called them Jurists and not Jurors.

Characters and other details:
Apollo was pretty much Phoenix Wright. Their personalities did not vary in the slightest. Same could be said about Trucy and Maya. Same similar absent-minded personality, except instead of spirit training it was magic training. Real good back story for Apollo and Trucy though, that twist with Lamiroir (or whatever her name is) was sweet and definitely sets up for good sequels.
Klavier... didn't feel any tension anywhere, like Cao Cao said. Especially when he'd pull a 180 and start supporting you. Why? You never really found out. They coulda done a lot more for this especially in Case 4. Although honestly I didn't feel any tension with Godot either, I thought he was just silly until Case 5 of TaT, but at least he was more entertaining than Klavier. Plus I like how he hits his hand on the back wall instead of the desk, I thought that was cool for some reason.
Ema Skye was boring and almost devoid of personality even if she is cute. She was much cooler in AA1 Case 5. Watching her explain and perform the forensics didn't feel as exciting as it did back then either.

In the end, I think it's a worthy successor to the PW series, although it's really hard to top something like TaT and definitely has a lot of potential to it... all depends on where they go in the next AJ. Also, the music kinda grew on me... I thought it sounded pretty bad at first! I especially liked the remixed magatama music in Case 4.

The only things I'd really want in the next game would be:
-A Phoenix Wright that doesn't look so much like a bum
-A case that has the Fey sisters in it. Just one, at least! Even if it's a case 1!
 
My copy did show up, despite never getting an e-mail about it shipping out. Which I'm not going to complain about, since I love this series and couldn't wait for it to show up. Besides, I've more or less finished Professor Layton, so I need something new.

Went through Case 1. Easily the best first case of all four games (though PW3's is pretty good since it ends up being a precursor to so much of the history of the game's universe and the characters inhabiting it). I was surprised to see it fashioned as a real case as opposed to something so throwaway. I can see why people liked it so much.

Kain's comments are interesting to me, since I think he has some valid points (squished together with some very non-valid ones). The first case is obviously a big departure from the series, partly because it has to be, and partly because the twists just end up making it one. I actually suggest you read this, Kain, as I think you might find it enjoyable (but hey, I could be wrong).

It's been on my mind for a few days now, and I've been thinking a lot about it. This is going to seem like a LOT of over-analyzation, and I readily accept it as such. So unless you want to read a big, LONG and LONGWINDED dissertation about the first case, there's no reason to click on this spoiler. But it's basically this gigantic memory dump of everything I thought of regarding case 1. It's like OCD, alright? Don't be a condescending PITA about it if you don't care, as I'm clearly not writing this for your enjoyment, but anyone else who might be thinking about it.

Yeah, I told you it was long.

So basically the case runs down Phoenix getting indicted for murder, and he slowly begins to defend himself, finally implicating Apollo's boss (and thus, Phoenix's own attorney) and pinning the crime on him. I'm going to skip the hysterics of what happens in the actual courtroom, however. I will say that it makes Phoenix look like even more of a badass than I already thought he was, since now he has this very calm zen-like aura to him, but he still knows how to nail asses to the wall and beat them until candy comes out.

At any rate, the first case is long and bizarre with twists that I've been turning over, because I want to determine the outright plausability of everything happening. When I put it down in a chronological timeline, I'm not so sure it works out. Let's continue.

Shadi was killed between 1:45 - 2:15 AM or so. Having played a little poker myself, let's assume the game might have taken anywhere from one to two hours to reach the situation proposed by the evidence, which is that Phoenix was up some 600-700 bucks or so (I know he had 4K something) after starting at 3500. The original plan by Shadi and Olga was to pin Phoenix with a fake ace after planting a 5 of
 
I think the reason Klavier turned on Kristoph is because, unlike the prosecutors from the original trilogy, he wants justice more than a 1+ on his winning record. In Case 3 he did the same thing, why would he turn on a person whom is not only his friend but a fellow bandmate? It was because he wants the truth, not to win. Hence the reason I like Klavier way more than any other prosecutor thus far.
 
[quote name='Strell']Kain's comments are interesting to me, since I think he has some valid points (squished together with some very non-valid ones). The first case is obviously a big departure from the series, partly because it has to be, and partly because the twists just end up making it one. I actually suggest you read this, Kain, as I think you might find it enjoyable (but hey, I could be wrong).[/quote]
That's a little bit too much analysis for not finishing the game =)

Like I says~
"I make it a point to massively dislike anime / videogames in which games make you think "WTF is going on" and then explain it later."

Case 1-only spoiler:
I thought it was fairly obvious that they left out a LOT of details in case 1. They even left out motive! And as such, I got the premonition that they would explain it later.

In response to Cecil:
Perhaps he is looking for justice, but that fact that he is makes him a really weak prosecutor! I think, given the circumstances of PW2 Case 5 with Edgeworth, we should be inclined that prosecutors should seek out the truth. Just as the game leads you to believe that you gotta "believe in your client even when it's bad", similarly, a prosecutor should believe in his detectives when they make the arrest!
And especially with Klavier, you never knew who he was pulling for. One moment he's asking you to press your witness and clearly panicking for not knowing the truth, then he turns it around on you. Then when you object he starts pulling for you again? Ugh.
 
I guess the problems with the first case is that they dont want it to be too hard as it is the first case.
 
In response to Veronica:
You'll find out all. Just be patient and play the game.

In response to Kain:
I think it really separates Klavier from all the other prosecutors in the series. Also, it also shows how naive he is since he is so young, as is present in the flashback case. IT also shows that he isn't completely comfortable with himself that he can't even trust his own instincts. I think that part of him will play a huge role in the next game.
 
I've just finished the first 3 cases so far, but a few little things bothered me on cases 2 & 3(along with most of the stuff that's already been mentioned on case 1 though I assume case 4 will clear some of that up).

Case 2
Why was Alita wearing slippers from the clinic? Gavin gave an explanation for why her regular shoes may have been left there, but that was before it was shown that she was unconcious. I can't see any reason why Dr. Meraktis would put slippers on the "body" if he just planned to dump her in the river anyway.

Case 3
Shouldn't it have been important that Deryan was the only person who would've recognized the Interpol ID # for what it was? I suppose the arguement could be made that whatever the victim was writing, the murderer would've covered it up even if he didn't understand it. Also, when/how did Machi & Deryan work out this whole smuggling thing or ever meet, especially given that Machi barely speaks English.
 
Pygmy, regarding Case 2:
Typically, japanese culture has people taking off their shoes and putting on slippers before entering buildings.
 
I understand that, but...
why did he put slippers on her "body" before attempting to dispose of it? He didn't need to do that at all. I guess we are to assume he felt the need to put her shoes back on her body, and in doing so put the wrong ones on her? That seems unlikely, but it's all I can come up with.

I thought it seemed odd because it never came up during the trial, and the only purpose it served was a way for Apollo to gain access to the clinic. I suppose it's lucky Dr. Meraktis did put those slippers on her, or else his murderer might've gotten off free.
 
Yeah, nevermind I was just being stupid.

Case 4 is good so far, but I'm barely getting started(just finished the first investigation section). I can say I'm very interested in figuring out where they're going with this one though, given how that part ended...


Is it just me, or are the prosecuters too soft now? It seems like in every game, the prosecution just keeps getting weaker and weaker. In PW1, Edgeworth was at least a worthy adversary, and Manfred von Karma is still the scariest opponent of this entire series. Since then it's been downhill. Franziska was ok, but not really anywhere near the level of her dad. Godot was an awesome character, but pretty terrible at being a prosecuter(for obvious reasons).

And now we have Klavier, who is even less effective than Godot was at the job. By which I mean, not only does he have a difficult time ever pinning the crime on your client, he also tends to help you and doesn't seem to be aggressive towards the defense at all.
 
[quote name='pygmy carnotaur']
Is it just me, or are the prosecuters too soft now? It seems like in every game, the prosecution just keeps getting weaker and weaker. In PW1, Edgeworth was at least a worthy adversary, and Manfred von Karma is still the scariest opponent of this entire series. Since then it's been downhill. Franziska was ok, but not really anywhere near the level of her dad. Godot was an awesome character, but pretty terrible at being a prosecuter(for obvious reasons).

And now we have Klavier, who is even less effective than Godot was at the job. By which I mean, not only does he have a difficult time ever pinning the crime on your client, he also tends to help you and doesn't seem to be aggressive towards the defense at all.[/quote]
Agree, but
[quote name='pygmy carnotaur']
Manfred von Karma is still the scariest opponent of this entire series.
[/quote]
Gant much?
Defendant in 2-4?
Shelly de Killer?
 
Ok, good point. Manfred is the most effective prosecuter is what I meant. He's clearly not the evilest character in the series, just the one you most hate to see on the other side of the court room.

And for what it's worth, I think Dahlia wins over Gant, de Killer, & Matt Engarde. She was just pure evil.
 
WHOA WHOA WHOA

Why are you calling me out in this thread title? If you want to fight OP, let me know the time and the place.
 
[quote name='pygmy carnotaur']Ok, good point. Manfred is the most effective prosecuter is what I meant. He's clearly not the evilest character in the series, just the one you most hate to see on the other side of the court room.

And for what it's worth, I think Dahlia wins over Gant, de Killer, & Matt Engarde. She was just pure evil.[/quote]
You're right-I just forgot about her. And PW3 is the AA game I played most recently (besides AJ:AA)
 
Manfred was an excellent opponent. When I heard him yell "Objection" at first, damn, that was crazy. Edgeworth and Fran, while not intimidating, it at least felt like you were actually working against them. Godot was silly, but at least he was funny and he did always seem to know what was going on.

Klavier on the other hand... he always seems clueless. And although I think he has pretty cool animation, the guitar thing had to be the corniest thing ever. Plus, it never seems like he knows anything that's going on.

[quote name='pygmy carnotaur']And for what it's worth, I think Dahlia wins over Gant, de Killer, & Matt Engarde. She was just pure evil. [/quote]
She was, but she got owned so hard that her evil-ness just didn't seem so bad. Pearl's mom though, she was equally as evil but without the verbal beatdown.
 
[quote name='kainzero']


She was, but she got owned so hard that her evil-ness just didn't seem so bad. Pearl's mom though, she was equally as evil but without the verbal beatdown.[/QUOTE]
That's what was so great about her. I'm not sure on the rules about AA3 spoilers so I'll just say that because of her "condition" she HAD to get owned badly. There was no other way for her to accept a loss.

Dahlia was awesome...
 
So how is everyone enjoying this with a new lead character? My copy should be arriving in the mail tonight, just in time for a weekend trip.
 
Honestly, I don't really even notice. Aside from what I said earlier about the old characters not yet leaving. It's just like having AA1 all over again.
 
It feels...nice. Kind of like a passing of the torch. I'm almost done with Case 4, so I'll post about my feelings about it later.

Phoenix is in the game a LOT, but you never get the sense that he's trying to turn this into "PW 4." He's definitely there for moral support, and they don't try to force him too hard on you throughout the game. This is Apollo's show, and they're letting you know it.

The only thing I don't like about this game is Klavier. I just don't get the same "serious" vibe that I got from Edgeworth, Franziska, and Godot. Namely, I just don't feel intimidated when he makes his case. I mean, he does the friggin' air guitar. Sure, the animation on it looks nice (same with his wall-pounding), but that's it.
 
For those who have played through the entire game, is it as good as the earlier PW games? I'm kind of on the fence about this. I sort of liked the other games, but more for their stories than puzzles and I liked the darker direction the series went in towrds the end. AJ looks a lot lighter and goofier, but the mystery surrounding what happened to Phoenix to make him decide to quit practicing law sounds interesting. Without giving away any plot spoilers, can anyone say if it's as dark and serious as the previous games?
 
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