[quote name='RollingSkull']You're missing the most headache-inducing part of this.
There is nothing to be revealed in the future. The black psyche locks WERE disguising the secret that Kristoph offed Zak to cover his forgery crime, which was still important enough to cover up WHILE HE WAS IN PRISON. That's pretty much it. You'd think that Engarde would have PLATINUM RARITANIUM FUSED PSYCHE LOCKS for his secret at Case 2-4.
[/QUOTE]
You can't prove that.
Like I proposed, you can't know for a fact that we'll never hear from Kristoph's past in future installments.
I won't even say it is likely that we won't. I am pointing out that the fulcrum your argument rests on doesn't exist.
Like I proposed, you can't know for a fact that we'll never hear from Kristoph's past in future installments.
I won't even say it is likely that we won't. I am pointing out that the fulcrum your argument rests on doesn't exist.[/quote]
Excuse me?
So he's going to have a third breakdown when we finally found out his TRUE TRUE secret? The one that he would rather receive the death penalty and lose all he'd worked for than divulge?
The fulcrum of my argument is not that "We won't see him again in the next game." The fulcrum of my argument is that this entire affair is made up of weak, watery, unsatisfying writing, and to play this out into a sequel in such a clumsy way just PROVES my point.
[quote name='RollingSkull']So he's going to have a third breakdown when we finally found out his TRUE TRUE secret? The one that he would rather receive the death penalty and lose all he'd worked for than divulge?[/quote]
It's already happened a few times in this series. I fail to see why it couldn't again.
The fulcrum of my argument is that this entire affair is made up of weak, watery, unsatisfying writing, and to play this out into a sequel in such a clumsy way just PROVES my point.
It doesn't prove your point at all. It would prove an over-arching story that's spanning different games and as such, we might only be at the introductory phase. At which point, whatever is being toyed around with now might be child's play compared to whatever dark secrets could always be revealed.
Who thought - during PW1 - that all the events mentioned in various cases would have culminated in the fireworks found in PW3-5? Don't pretend you saw that coming - no one did.
I didn't say your fulcrum was that we wouldn't see him in future games - I even met you halfway in suggesting we might never see him again. But you're really dragging out one tired little point of your opinion as fact for games we can only assume are being worked on right now, which only now is some sort of hybrid "I hated the case" and "I'm predicting I'll hate anything else said about it since it would prove my hatred."
[quote name='Strell']It doesn't prove your point at all. It would prove an over-arching story that's spanning different games and as such, we might only be at the introductory phase. At which point, whatever is being toyed around with now might be child's play compared to whatever dark secrets could always be revealed.
Who thought - during PW1 - that all the events mentioned in various cases would have culminated in the fireworks found in PW3-5? Don't pretend you saw that coming - no one did. [/quote]
But when you finished the cases in PW1, PW2, etc... they were all done. Except for 2-2 when
Pearl's mom swore revenge on Maya,
and maybe in case 1-4 when
Misty Fey was nowhere to be found yet implied not to be dead
there was nothing that even hinted that there was really more to it. Either way, I thought 1-2/1-4 and 2-2 had satisfying conclusions. Imagine that 3-1 was in the second game instead of the third. That would be terrible.
4-4 spoilers:
The fact that there's a mystery over these stupid black psyche locks is just bad writing. We're even confused if it's solved already or not (when I finished AJ, I thought what Rolling thought... and didn't think it to be implied to appear in a sequel.
I was wholly welcome to the fact that there would be new characters, but I still hated how
Phoenix seemed to randomly call out your boss in case 1; come on! we just met the guy!
, and the seemingly weak prosecutor in Klavier. There has to be more than just saying Herr Forehead and Achtung and randomly rocking out, then helping you out.
It's ironic too, because I hated how Case 1 and to some extent, how Case 4 played out, but I really liked the writing in Case 2 and 3, the normal "filler" cases. Progressing through those cases showed that they could still write a good mystery =)
You could link together cases in PW1, 2, and 3 quite easily. Look at PW1-4, to a small extent PW1-5, PW2-2, PW3-1, PW3-4, and PW3-5. They all play a part into a bigger whole.
If Capcom is willing to tie together that much over that far, then I fail to see why they couldn't be doing the same thing here. The only difference is that we - as veteran players of the series - might pick up on it a lot quicker since we're getting used to the tricks these games employ.
All I'm really saying is that some of you are jumping the gun WAY too quickly, and are condemning something you have no idea about other than some very short projections.
You could link together cases in PW1, 2, and 3 quite easily. Look at PW1-4, to a small extent PW1-5, PW2-2, PW3-1, PW3-4, and PW3-5. They all play a part into a bigger whole.
If Capcom is willing to tie together that much over that far, then I fail to see why they couldn't be doing the same thing here. The only difference is that we - as veteran players of the series - might pick up on it a lot quicker since we're getting used to the tricks these games employ.
All I'm really saying is that some of you are jumping the gun WAY too quickly, and are condemning something you have no idea about other than some very short projections.[/quote]
I'm not denying the links to other cases, and PW3-1 and PW3-4 were obviously in the same game as the conclusive link between them all, PW3-5, so they're technically "in the same book." And yet, 3-1 could serve itself perfectly as a standalone case.
The main difference was that 1-4 and 2-2 provided satisfying conclusions and closed ends to all the key points within their respective cases. That's how storytelling should be done... not like, say, Xenosaga I, where they talk about a bunch of crap they don't explain in the beginning and then you have to go find it out as you watch.
4-4 spoilers:
Lamiroir being Thalassa, yet not telling Trucy or Apollo. That's fine. It's not that relevant to the actual case and provides a mystery to be solved in future games.
Let's say Rolling (and my initial evaluation) was right, and the black psyches were the secret that he was the mastermind behind the underhanded dealings of the Gramarye case. In that case, I find his motive weak and it underscores the weak finish to what could've been an epic case.
But, now, let's say Strell's right. Well, with this deep dark secret that REALLY explains 4-4, we're now left with a subpar conclusion. Instead of a weak motive, we now have NO motive. And as Ace Attorney has taught us, motive is essential to understanding any case =)
You could link together cases in PW1, 2, and 3 quite easily. Look at PW1-4, to a small extent PW1-5, PW2-2, PW3-1, PW3-4, and PW3-5. They all play a part into a bigger whole.
If Capcom is willing to tie together that much over that far, then I fail to see why they couldn't be doing the same thing here. The only difference is that we - as veteran players of the series - might pick up on it a lot quicker since we're getting used to the tricks these games employ.
All I'm really saying is that some of you are jumping the gun WAY too quickly, and are condemning something you have no idea about other than some very short projections.[/quote]
Yes, but 3-1 was not 1-1. Redd White was defeated as quickly as he was introduced. Dahlia was brought in as the villain only in the same game where she was defeated.
The events of games 1 and 2 set up a backstory, yes, but I don't believe that they had 3-5 even envisioned when they finished AA1. You'll never convince me of that.
What Kainzero said is right on the money. There are two possibilities.
Kristoph's black psyche locks hid that he provided the false evidence and is a psychopath. As stated before, this reveal hardly merited a second court battle. He has no motive to be so petty and vindictive to someone he met maybe twice. PW's writing has always had elegant, logical motives to their criminals. For them to have such a sudden shift is just silly, and weakens the storytelling since the painted him as knowing what he was doing at all times.
The alternative? The motive for what he did this game isn't revealed until the next. Despite the game's apparently "happily ever after" ending, we have a cliffhanger that doesn't even resolve the plot's of THIS game's cases.
The main difference was that 1-4 and 2-2 provided satisfying conclusions and closed ends to all the key points within their respective cases. That's how storytelling should be done[/quote]
This is why it's getting difficult to respond to you and Rolling. You're both thinking way too narrow for all of this.
First off, 2-2 ended with a HUGE loose end, which was ...whatever that old Fey woman was named sitting in jail, with her scary white eyes, talking about how she was going to plot revenge. And it took until PW3-5, but it happened - she managed to wrought some powerful evil later on, all from the coziness of her internment.
It was completely out of the blue, but it made total sense. (Though, I still wanted to find out Dahlia had actually escaped from jail instead of all the voodoo spirit channeling, but I'll take what I can get.) And there were no clues in between that would even begin to suggest what would happen would happen - we only then - in case 3-5 - that Pearl was getting letters from her, that this elaborate plan was coming to fruition, etc.
And again - the big thing you missed from all those cases I linked up there - was the whole thing about...um...the original Fey master. Maya's mom. (I'm not going to look them up.) They make allusions all over the place to the case you first explore in PW1-4, which is ...what, DS9? I can't remember. It's the one where they called in the spirit medium and then decided she wasn't truthful/permissible, which caused her exile.
And then there's tons of references to it, but we never get a satisfying conclusion until PW3-5. That's one hell of a story arc to keep just barely alive and continually allude to, only to have it finally crash down and finally be done at the end of the trilogy.
Poor story-telling is kind of a misnomer as far as that is all concerned, because they could have just left things as they are, and most people wouldn't have noticed or bothered to want to see if anything else would happen concerning all of those events. Likewise, they could have offered up a crappy explanation at any time. But instead - proper story-telling in tow - they wrap it all up quite nicely in one hell of a case.
4-4 spoilers:
Let's say Rolling (and my initial evaluation) was right, and the black psyches were the secret that he was the mastermind behind the underhanded dealings of the Gramarye case. In that case, I find his motive weak and it underscores the weak finish to what could've been an epic case.
But, now, let's say Strell's right. Well, with this deep dark secret that REALLY explains 4-4, we're now left with a subpar conclusion. Instead of a weak motive, we now have NO motive. And as Ace Attorney has taught us, motive is essential to understanding any case =)
Again, too narrow thinking. There's not only two options here. You guys are convinced these black psyches have only to do with 4-4, and as I said previously, there's a lot of potential market for them to shop around to explain those. Kristoph was an attorney for a good while - he had his own agency. That's plenty of time for him to pull off all kinds of heinous stuff.
And again, "no/weak motive." I find it hard to discuss this with people in this thread when EVERYONE but me had already pegged his motives incorrectly as some sort of "omfg Kristoph was teh slighted by Zak and can haz be angries" explanation. Which - as I said at length a while ago - is entirely off base.
There's absolutely no reason - no reason - why the black psyches might not be explored until later, and that they could be the culmination of lots of things we don't know about yet. And again, I'm even meeting you halfway and willing to agree that they might NEVER visit him again, but I'm saying the opportunity is there.
Want an example? Fine. Where did Apollo come from? We don't know much about his past other than the small clues left at the end of AJ. Who's to say Kristoph doesn't have a hand in the 22 years (or however old AJ is) of life pre-attorney? That could be a huge can of worms waiting to be sprung.
The big problem I'm having with your arguments is that you are so hellbent on assuming the black psyches only have anything to do with the final case, and that because of that, only certain conclusions can be drawn. And since you're doing that, you're making it way too easy for both of you to throw your hands up and call the cases nonsense already, when there's very little reason to do so other than your own opinions.
The events of games 1 and 2 set up a backstory, yes, but I don't believe that they had 3-5 even envisioned when they finished AA1. You'll never convince me of that.
Having done some writing myself, I can agree to this. It's like how I don't actually think J.K. Rowling had book 7 of Harry Potter written out like she says, or (and I saw this in an interview a long time ago) that she had written the final epilogue in full before she finished the first book, and thus knew about a lot of characters who didn't show up until books 3 or later.
However, there's nothing that says they couldn't have written 3-5 with every intention of placing it into PW2, and then someone said "no let's hold off and try to build it up more" and let it wait out until PW3. In other words, since we have no idea when everything was written, it's entirely possible the scenarios were written all at once, and then someone suggested spacing them out and using the added time to make references to further deepen the entangling web between everything. You'll never convince me that they didn't.
You're also ...taking a lot of the opponents for granted and acting like they were all criminal masterminds. Half of them were doing shit for "dumb" reasons, be it money or power or fame (Gant comes to mind). I fail to see how they are any different than Kristoph (with some obvious exceptions). I know you made some grandiose comparison a little while ago that Kristoph can't compare to anyone, but that's just silly.
And again, it sounds like you're dismissing his motives. Again. Again. Even when I made it really clear that the assumptions everyone had about them were way off course.
Just started playing this for the first time, and I was VERY skeptical about how it would compare to the original trilogy.
I am shocked that PW is a main character after all. And I like Trucy was better than Maya for some reason. Air guitar Klavin? Not as cool as Edgy, but not bad either. Gumshoe is missed, whats her face from case 5 of 1 is boring.
[quote name='Strell']First off, 2-2 ended with a HUGE loose end, which was ...whatever that old Fey woman was named sitting in jail, with her scary white eyes, talking about how she was going to plot revenge. And it took until PW3-5, but it happened - she managed to wrought some powerful evil later on, all from the coziness of her internment.[/quote]
Less of a loose end and more of a sequel possibility. Morgan and Ini had had their respective plots unraveled and tied up in a nice package. Calling that a "HUGE loose end" is like calling every episode of Inspector Gadget ending on a loose end. "NEXT TIME, GADGET. NEXT TIME!"
It was completely out of the blue, but it made total sense. (Though, I still wanted to find out Dahlia had actually escaped from jail instead of all the voodoo spirit channeling, but I'll take what I can get.) And there were no clues in between that would even begin to suggest what would happen would happen - we only then - in case 3-5 - that Pearl was getting letters from her, that this elaborate plan was coming to fruition, etc.
And again - the big thing you missed from all those cases I linked up there - was the whole thing about...um...the original Fey master. Maya's mom. (I'm not going to look them up.) They make allusions all over the place to the case you first explore in PW1-4, which is ...what, DS9? I can't remember. It's the one where they called in the spirit medium and then decided she wasn't truthful/permissible, which caused her exile.
And then there's tons of references to it, but we never get a satisfying conclusion until PW3-5. That's one hell of a story arc to keep just barely alive and continually allude to, only to have it finally crash down and finally be done at the end of the trilogy.
Yes, it is a hell of a story arc, but it is kept in the background in all the games that it isn't relevant. Misty Fey's disappearance? Rarely spoken of in any sense outside of being an clarifier for what is happening in the current case. White's persecution of the Feys. von Karma's villainy... Hell, the reason for Misty's disappearance is explicit. The only plot point to resolve there is that she has to come back for the final case. They could've made six or seven more PW games and only to have Misty not show up until PW9 and the only problem with that is that she's a little late on the timing.
And again, "no/weak motive." I find it hard to discuss this with people in this thread when EVERYONE but me had already pegged his motives incorrectly as some sort of "omfg Kristoph was teh slighted by Zak and can haz be angries" explanation. Which - as I said at length a while ago - is entirely off base.
I didn't find your case convincing then and I still don't now. Perhaps the fact that EVERYONE but you came to this conclusion should say something about the game.
There's absolutely no reason - no reason - why the black psyches might not be explored until later, and that they could be the culmination of lots of things we don't know about yet. And again, I'm even meeting you halfway and willing to agree that they might NEVER visit him again, but I'm saying the opportunity is there.
Want an example? Fine. Where did Apollo come from? We don't know much about his past other than the small clues left at the end of AJ. Who's to say Kristoph doesn't have a hand in the 22 years (or however old AJ is) of life pre-attorney? That could be a huge can of worms waiting to be sprung.
The big problem I'm having with your arguments is that you are so hellbent on assuming the black psyches only have anything to do with the final case, and that because of that, only certain conclusions can be drawn. And since you're doing that, you're making it way too easy for both of you to throw your hands up and call the cases nonsense already, when there's very little reason to do so other than your own opinions.
We're not assuming jack shit. We're operating off of the information given to us by the game. PW's storytelling is generally free of curve balls, especially considering how often they will explicitly spell things out. The LACK of any "unanswered questions" brought up in the game itself is pretty close to concrete proof of there being no unanswered questions.
The black psyche locks popped up when Kristoph was asked why he killed Zak, which we answered in court, complete with violent breakdown by Kristoph and Kristoph talking at LENGTH about how furious he was that Zak chose Phoenix.
So yes, the possibilities are very limited. The conclusion I am coming to IS the one supported most by the game itself. If appealing to the game itself is being narrow-minded, then I'd hate to see your definition of open-minded.
Besides, if you expect Kristoph to come back for AA5, then you better be ready to suck down a huge bowl of retcons and spirit channeling.
[quote name='RollingSkull']I didn't find your case convincing then and I still don't now. Perhaps the fact that EVERYONE but you came to this conclusion should say something about the game.[/quote]
No. It says something about my ability to discern character, motive, and detail, as well as everyone else's lack of that ability.
Sorry, but when the first complaint (made in this thread) was wrong and then everyone agreed to it, it's obvious at that point no one was paying attention, since there was a breakdown of 1) not understanding the game correctly, and 2) no one raising an objection to the paltry explanation in the thread. I'm not stopping any of you from actually reading the material that was there, nor is the game. And the fact that I came to the right conclusion says a lot more than it implies.
Getting it wrong is absolute in this case - you all had it wrong. Blaming the game is simply blaming an outside party. Don't condescend to me and my understanding of what happening simply because you've got to eat a big slice of humble pie, but still rail against my explanation. That's bullshit and you know it. It would be one thing if both possibilities were true, but that's not the case here, so you - and everyone else who agreed - have absolutely no ground to stand on. You were all wrong. It is that concise.
We're not assuming jack shit. We're operating off of the information given to us by the game. PW's storytelling is generally free of curve balls, especially considering how often they will explicitly spell things out.
You've said this a lot in this thread, and I've really tried to ignore it, but you're off base here entirely.
PW has always had...sensationalistic and stylized writing that requires explicit explanation, and that is because the ultimate answers are usually so outside-the-box and wild. I've been able to find problems with a lot of the cases in the past, and I'm sure I'll find more problems in future cases. There's always a weak point somewhere in every case that could be debated or argued over. The only difference is that the game basically tosses out that weak point in favor of its own explanation, which works on a distraction level.
In other words, there have been times in the cases where I've sat there and thought, "You know, X isn't really possible" or "Y really isn't being adequately explained to me here," and the only reason the game can get around those points is that is serves up a wtf explanation in a very direct (if potentially flawed) way. I mean honestly, there's been those moments where everyone is thinking "there is no way that works." For example, in PW3, when you find a pamplet in the diner in case 3? You mean the police didn't find it for an entire month? To say nothing of the whole fake-Phoenix Wright thing, which took me so far out of my suspense of belief I got a nosebleed.
It's never been clean-cut and calculated. You've assumed that point out of nowhere and acted like this is the one case that breaks it, and that couldn't be any more wrong.
The LACK of any "unanswered questions" brought up in the game itself is pretty close to concrete proof of there being no unanswered questions.
The black psyche locks popped up when Kristoph was asked why he killed Zak, which we answered in court, complete with violent breakdown by Kristoph and Kristoph talking at LENGTH about how furious he was that Zak chose Phoenix.
So yes, the possibilities are very limited. The conclusion I am coming to IS the one supported most by the game itself. If appealing to the game itself is being narrow-minded, then I'd hate to see your definition of open-minded.
I'm really getting tired of this bullshit incendiary nonsense you're aiming at me, especially when I've said - and done, multiple times - that I agree to meet you halfway on a lot of your points. And you haven't done any of that with anything I've said, even when I've demonstrated that everyone's thinking can be way off base about lots of widely-accepted theories (Kristoph's motives come to mind, which you STILL think are nothing more than "omfg he doesnt wants to play poker with me").
Quit sitting there and acting like I'm not willing to agree that Kristoph might never come back - I've already said we might never see him again.
But again, it's way narrow to think some new element/explanation/history/case/evidence can't be introduced at some point in a future game to give light to the unanswered questions. Who in the hell thought - for example - after PW1 that you'd be channeling spirits in PW2/3? No one. Not one damn person in the world did, with the exception of Americans who could have looked up the stories for the sequels before playing the first one. And that doesn't count.
[quote name='Strell']No. It says something about my ability to discern character, motive, and detail, as well as everyone else's lack of that ability.
Sorry, but when the first complaint (made in this thread) was wrong and then everyone agreed to it, it's obvious at that point no one was paying attention, since there was a breakdown of 1) not understanding the game correctly, and 2) no one raising an objection to the paltry explanation in the thread. I'm not stopping any of you from actually reading the material that was there, nor is the game. And the fact that I came to the right conclusion says a lot more than it implies.
Getting it wrong is absolute in this case - you all had it wrong. Blaming the game is simply blaming an outside party. Don't condescend to me and my understanding of what happening simply because you've got to eat a big slice of humble pie, but still rail against my explanation. That's bullshit and you know it. It would be one thing if both possibilities were true, but that's not the case here, so you - and everyone else who agreed - have absolutely no ground to stand on. You were all wrong. It is that concise.[/quote]
The only reason I'm posting here is to have a discussion on case 4 and why it didn't have a good feel to it. I based my argument on Kristoph's shaky motive; it wasn't believable or strong and the case really hinges on it. That's what everything comes down to.
Let's start from the top and I'll respond as I go along. If I read Rollingskull's posts right, this is what we're debating.
My argument: Kristoph's motive to start the evidence faking and the stalking / killing Zak is not well defined, making for a much less interesting case than it could have been.
Arguments:
1 - Money and fame as mentioned in the game. counterpoint: If this is true, it isn't really well written because I personally couldn't see how it was such a big deal. ccp: Other villains such as Gant did not have strong motives. cccp: While I can admit that his plan required incredible foresight in a short time period, his motive was still pretty clear. Gain power to prosecute criminals by controlling the PD and the Attorney's Office and never be caught short-handed on evidence.
2 - Black psyche locks may be explained later to prove Kristoph's motive. counterpoint: If this is true, then I dislike how the game proceeds. I believe Kristoph's motive is the backbone, the heart and soul of this case and it ends on an unsatisfying note until it could be fully resolved. ccp: Many of the old PW cases featured loose ends. cccp: None of the loose ends were ever as big as this, and most of them were just minor details in a large case. Misty's disappearance, and Pearl's mother threatening revenge were not particular mysteries that were essential to solve the cases they were in. To omit Kristoph's motive to be solved later is a huge stamp to lick. (GET IT?! HAHAH no. that was terrible.) =)
That's all I've been trying to wrap my head around. Nothing else. Whether things happen in future games is up to the future games, I'm not really concerned about that, those happen when they do.
[quote name='kainzero']The only reason I'm posting here is to have a discussion on case 4 and why it didn't have a good feel to it. I based my argument on Kristoph's shaky motive; it wasn't believable or strong and the case really hinges on it. That's what everything comes down to.
Let's start from the top and I'll respond as I go along. If I read Rollingskull's posts right, this is what we're debating.[/quote]
Well, I've got a wide variety of theses, but most of them stem from the fact that, given the game and what I've read about the writers' being forced to include the jury system and Phoenix, that Kristoph just is not a convincing villain.
My argument: Kristoph's motive to start the evidence faking and the stalking / killing Zak is not well defined, making for a much less interesting case than it could have been.
Arguments:
1 - Money and fame as mentioned in the game. counterpoint: If this is true, it isn't really well written because I personally couldn't see how it was such a big deal. ccp: Other villains such as Gant did not have strong motives. cccp: While I can admit that his plan required incredible foresight in a short time period, his motive was still pretty clear. Gain power to prosecute criminals by controlling the PD and the Attorney's Office and never be caught short-handed on evidence.
See, I'd also add that disproportionate response to slight infractions is a PW standard... just see Manfred von Karma. But at least with Manfred, we have at least a sense of how crazy about his record he was... that the slight on his record caused him to be utterly filled with rage, unable to see or think for the next several minutes in a childish tantrum that eventually led to the murder and his dramatically beautiful but realistically stupidly overwrought plan for revenge.
I'd allow it though because he looks like Salieri on steroids, and I dig an Amadeus reference.
I really don't get what they were trying to do with Kristoph. Trying to make him the devil incarnate, while only really being evil with regard to that case. Even von Karma seemed like a character. Kristoph seemed like a plot device.
Just started this today. Finished the first case and am now in the first day of the second. Glad to see Phoenix Wright is a main character, although his existence now is depressing.
I really ing loved T&T (I think most everyone did, though), and I loved how he finally
got some love with Iris
at the end, so it's a shame that doesn't appear to have carried forward in this game. Love the character designs and this Perceive system (only used it the one time, so far)....and Trucy is great (way less annoying than Maya.
[quote name='pete5883']Finished this today, loved the last case. How come you don't get any background images for the cases as you beat them, like in the first 3 games?[/quote]
Capcom is lazy and didn't want to make any new art. The first three games had art already made.
You've all mentioned how Klavier isn't scary enough-- well, you know how Edgeworth starts out overly competitive and slowly gains principles? What if Klavier does the opposite in future games: he starts getting embarrassed by all the losing he's doing, and he becomes cynical and unprincipled with age? It happens often enough to lawyers-- the idealism they had right out of law school never lasts (see the typical John Grisham protagonist). Then Apollo could 'bring him back from the dark side' or something.
Just about to finish justice for all and it was terrible compared to the first.
Hopefully apollo and trials and tribs are a lot better than the crap i just went through/ i have part 3 and still don't want to pay more than 15 for apollo. Apollo is alot better than Justice for all?
[quote name='Mr. 420']Just about to finish justice for all and it was terrible compared to the first.
Hopefully apollo and trials and tribs are a lot better than the crap i just went through/ i have part 3 and still don't want to pay more than 15 for apollo. Apollo is alot better than Justice for all?[/quote]
Can't say about Apollo (only played first case, which was fun) but T&T is my second favorite game ever. (METAL GEAR SOLID is my favorite at the moment)
The last case of T&T is drawn out, but it is a good case, unlike
[quote name='Mr. 420']Just about to finish justice for all and it was terrible compared to the first.
Hopefully apollo and trials and tribs are a lot better than the crap i just went through/ i have part 3 and still don't want to pay more than 15 for apollo. Apollo is alot better than Justice for all?[/QUOTE]
Apollo Justice > Justice for all. Justice for All is a decent game but It's pretty lame compared to any Ace Attorney game. Unfortunately, I would say without a former attorneys pressence in Apollo Justice It's not too much better then Justice for All. Apollo is even more green then Phoenix was in the first PW, without much of the personality. Don't plan on getting a deal on this one though, as it was even less produced then Trials and Tribulations from what I've read.
ing loved T&T (I think most everyone did, though), and I loved how he finally
