Newbie Flaming

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I think, as the world continues to become totally "wired", 2 things happen:

1) Asses who spent the last 15-20 years of their lives holed up in their parents basement suddenly have an anonymus outlet for their hatred of society.

2) The idea of 'netiquette' changes rapidly with the influx of new users, resulting in varied opinions of what's OK and what's not.

End result: Anytime anyone does something that might regarded as 'wrong', they make themselves a target for very jerk who had a bad day or hasn't gotten laid in awhile. (In the case of the thread-in-question, it might be considered 'wrong' to ask about 260 availibity when there are so many 360 threads now.)

A regular user knows how to combat a jerk- we ingore them, make a joke of what they said, whatever. A new user doesn't and (normally justifably) takes it personally and argues.

.... I'm not entirely sure where I'm going with this...

... in any case, I'm all for an automated PM welcoming/explaining things for new members. If we make it clear from the start what is acceptable and what isn't, then we know for sure which new members are ignoring the rules, and therefore worthy of getting stepped on by every troll we have.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have leftover Thanksgiving chocolate pie to eat. Mmmm, pie... :drool:
 
[quote name='karmapolice']I love how I started a thread on the problems of flaming and bashing, and its become a battle of whether or not fraternaties are ok, and if the troll can get the last word.[/QUOTE]
I'll settle it: the point about frats was that they had hazing periods. The opinion that they're full of dumb frat-boys is entirely incidental to the point that applies here. If you were in a frat and don't like being called dumb, rebutt my point with some stats showing that fraternities have lower levels of drinking than college on average and/or higher grades.
 
[quote name='karmapolice']I think we should figure out some way to welcome noobs, have a list of trolls for them to watch out for and ignore if need-be. The trolls know who they are and I dont really think it would hurt their feelings to be called as such.[/QUOTE]

I like that idea- I think it's a pretty good approximation of the e-version of the Welcome Wagon I was referring to. I don't know about naming names but even just acknowledging that some members can be jerks and don't represent the majority of the community I'm sure would be appreciated.
 
Just thought I'd chime in on the topic.
Something that might be nice for the new users, would be a newbie section in the forums.
In there people could create the "Hi I'm new here thread..." and ideally those who want to welcome them could and everyone else could ignore them. Additionally, some stickies about site rules, guides, etc could be provided.
Combine the PM with this and I would think you could have a nice way of welcoming people to the site.
 
[quote name='SpottedNigel']We should also have a list of "big-brothers" people to look for (yeah, mostly mods) if they have questions or concerns.[/QUOTE]

Thats a really good idea too. We should def. have a list of people that like to help people out and are willing to give help to whoever asks. I know alot of people that when I was a noob helped me out. They told me where to find info on certain things, and what to do and not to do. Punqsux was one of the people who helped me out when I first got here.
 
[quote name='priest_ridden']Just thought I'd chime in on the topic.
Something that might be nice for the new users, would be a newbie section in the forums.
In there people could create the "Hi I'm new here thread..." and ideally those who want to welcome them could and everyone else could ignore them. Additionally, some stickies about site rules, guides, etc could be provided.
Combine the PM with this and I would think you could have a nice way of welcoming people to the site.[/QUOTE]

If I remember, we used to havea thread like that? It doesnt work... people troll on it and flame the new users. It doesnt matter how we would set up the thread. I think the best way is the PM and additional Faq threads linked in the PM.
 
[quote name='masha']I remember my initiation. I created a trading thread for future trades. I wanted it clean with no replies and asked (POLITELY) "Please do not post here" in the title. ..oh boy!..It was on top of the trading forum for a long time. MotherF||ckers :lol:[/QUOTE]

My hazing was creating an OTT back in July. ;)
 
[quote name='CheapyMom']I like that idea- I think it's a pretty good approximation of the e-version of the Welcome Wagon I was referring to. I don't know about naming names but even just acknowledging that some members can be jerks and don't represent the majority of the community I'm sure would be appreciated.[/QUOTE]

Instead of a list perhaps Cheapy and the mods could replace the ranking/custom ranking with an official jerk/troll listing.
 
[quote name='jmcc']I'll settle it: the point about frats was that they had hazing periods. The opinion that they're full of dumb frat-boys is entirely incidental to the point that applies here. If you were in a frat and don't like being called dumb, rebutt my point with some stats showing that fraternities have lower levels of drinking than college on average and/or higher grades.[/QUOTE]
I can't say anything about drinking rate, as I know no way of putting a number on that (though I don't drink at all). As for grades: http://gradeinflation.com/
Average public college GPA: 2.97
Last semester average GPA at my chapter: 3.21
 
[quote name='CheapyMom']I agree with the OP and have often wondered how many people who would have been assets to the community got turned off and figuratively walked away from CAG after being on the receiving end of such negativity and often just real stupidity.

Personally, I think we should have a e-welcome wagon program (is anyone beside me old enough to know what a welcome wagon is?) for first posters or something to counteract the flaming because I don't think it can be eliminated.

(Note: I'm the only newbie posting in this thread so don't pick on me....)[/QUOTE]

I'm old enough to remember, I'm just not sure what form a welcome wagon on CAG would take.

I can think of a few people the forum may be "better" without. However, as "better" is a subjective term, the only thing that I know with certainty is that CAG would be different, and I wouldn't change CAG for the world.

That includes "stupid newbie" threads.
 
[quote name='priest_ridden']Just thought I'd chime in on the topic.
Something that might be nice for the new users, would be a newbie section in the forums.
In there people could create the "Hi I'm new here thread..." and ideally those who want to welcome them could and everyone else could ignore them. Additionally, some stickies about site rules, guides, etc could be provided.
Combine the PM with this and I would think you could have a nice way of welcoming people to the site.[/QUOTE]
Actually that may not be a bad idea. If Cheapy creates a new "Welcome" section and makes it clear that trolling in there is bad, I think it could work.
 
[quote name='b0bx13']I can't say anything about drinking rate, as I know no way of putting a number on that (though I don't drink at all). As for grades: http://gradeinflation.com/
Average public college GPA: 2.97
Last semester average GPA at my chapter: 3.21[/QUOTE]
I don't see anything about fraternities in that link. What am I looking for? And google for "fraternities binge drinking" for some numbers. I'm not paging through them all, as it's not my argument to make, but a choice quote from one was: "The strongest predictor for binge drinking was living in a sorority or fraternity house. Eighty percent (80%) of sorority women and 86% of fraternity men living in Greek housing qualified as binge drinkers."

edit: or "Fraternity house residents are twice as likely as other students to indulge in binge drinking, according to the Harvard School of Public Health's 2001 College Alcohol Study."
 
Hey guys, just want to throw my 2 cents in. I just got upgraded to regular from newbie, and I was pleasantly surprised that I didn't get flamed once this year. Maybe it was because I didn't go into the EBgames thread and ask when the system gets updated, or I ddin't go in the gamerush thread asking about trade-in deals at gamestop. I don't agree with flaming but some of the questions on here are easily answered if you take time to read the thread before posting in it. Most people seem very lazy and don't do more than hit last, read the last few posts and then post something themselves. The worst offenders were during the Green Tag Glitch. Every other question in the forum was about the glitch and how it worked. You're never going to get everyone to be civil but I think that this issue has 2 sides and it's not just a bunch of trolls looking to bring everyone down but also very lazy newbies that don't seem to give a damn about the CAG but just want to find some deals and not contribute.

It's a great time to be a cheap ass gamer.
 
[quote name='jmcc']I don't see anything about fraternities in that link. What am I looking for?[/QUOTE]
Hence why I provided you with my chapter's information; our GPA isn't published online in any location of which I am aware.

[quote name='jmcc']"The strongest predictor for binge drinking was living in a sorority or fraternity house. Eighty percent (80%) of sorority women and 86% of fraternity men living in Greek housing qualified as binge drinkers."

edit: or "Fraternity house residents are twice as likely as other students to indulge in binge drinking, according to the Harvard School of Public Health's 2001 College Alcohol Study."[/QUOTE]
There was a survey passed around USD's campus regarding drinking and sexual habits. As it were, almost 90% of participants indicated that they had 8 or more drinks in one night at least once in the last month. 90% is higher than 86%, last I checked.


[quote name='jmcc']
edit: or "Fraternity house residents are twice as likely as other students to indulge in binge drinking, according to the Harvard School of Public Health's 2001 College Alcohol Study."[/QUOTE]
Maybe this is accurate, maybe not. But which is easier to poll? A campus of 10k+, or a frat house of 30?

Anyway, I'm not quite sure why I'm trying to defend my organization to someone who clearly has not had direct experience with the greek system (even I was highly against fraternities and had the same stereotypical views until rush week), so this will be my last post on the subject.
 
[quote name='b0bx13']Hence why I provided you with my chapter's information; our GPA isn't published online in any location of which I am aware.


There was a survey passed around USD's campus regarding drinking and sexual habits. As it were, almost 90% of participants indicated that they had 8 or more drinks in one night at least once in the last month. 90% is higher than 86%, last I checked.

Anyway, I'm not quite sure why I'm trying to defend my organization to someone who clearly has not had direct experience with the greek system (even I was highly against fraternities and had the same stereotypical views until rush week), so this will be my last post on the subject.[/QUOTE]
That's fine. Anecdotal evidence isn't very impressive.
 
Am I the only one that thinks he brought it on himself in that topic? I agree it's a problem elsewhere, but this guy seemed to be asking for it. Just what I got out of the first few posts (#1-11).
 
[quote name='Moxio']Well we can all agree there are some members who generally aren't any help to the CAG society. The problem is what can we do about this to prevent further despicable welcomes?[/QUOTE]

I think the main issue is that CAG has become more hostile to new members over time. I know I sure as hell would not have stuck around if I had been treated as some of the new people lately have been treated. I just wouldnt feel welcome let alone welcome enough to post a question or comment.

In my opinion, I believe the main culprit is that it has become "ok" to insult others as a laugh or as a rule. The more people that join the more people there are to clash with.
While I don't think this is the fault of the mods for not doing their job properly, I do feel that the longer it is left the way it is, the worse it will get. It will be harder to correct the longer it is let go. I do feel this place has become about as friendly as gamefaqs for new people. - (and sometimes about as informative)

The "let it slide off your back, get a thicker skin" idea is BS. There should be no excuse for rudeness or flaming for the sake of disagreeing. It is not about having a thick skin, it's about politeness and respecting other users opinions and questions.

I think the grand rule should be that if you don't have anything nice to say, then keep it to yourself. Difference of opnion is one thing, insulting another for their beliefs is another. I see a lot of "vet" users that go into a thread knowing damn well what it is about and saying nothing constructive, but just flaming and insulting. There is no excuse for that. I don't honestly think it should be allowed if you wish to have an intelligent discussion board.

My few and probably "lame" suggestions to help turn this place around might or might not be good ideas:

1.One "venting" thread for those who have bad experiences at stores and need a little support. I know there are lots of those already, but if we allow people to come in and bash the OP about his opinion it becomes a flaming thread. Sometimes people need to vent and they need support. Only post in that thread if you empathize with the op and wish to vent about a bad experience you had.
Noone likes the ps2 trolls on the xbox board saying xbox sucks. - It is the same way about venting on bad experiences.

2. Start to enfore the "be nice" no flaming policy in the TOS. Trolling in someone's thread just because you dont like them or disagree with their post is not cool. It is one thing to insult your buddies as a joke. They understand it is meant in jest. Insulting people you are not friends with and who don't "get" your humor is not appropriate. There is a fine line between messing with them and having a laugh and being hurtful. If your not sure, then don't post it.

3. A newbie forum, for those who want to ask questions without fear of getting burned a new butthole. I know this may not work out or last very long . However I think it would be a good way for newbies to get their feet wet and feel comfortable with participating without being scared away. No newb insulting allowed in this forum. - Policed by mods.
I agree with Cheapymom about wondering how many good people were frightened away by vets.
There are tons of boards in this place and newbs don't need to be shot for asking the same question that was answered 5 times in the sub forum on Entomology. A polite redirect or general" you can find the answer in the xxx thread in the xxx forum" is more then sufficient. a lot of people dont have hours to read all the forums and keep up with all the threads.

It takes just as long to type" that has been answered in the DS forum in the DS release schedule thread" as it does to say" WTH are you posting about this again? this has already been answered 9 times in the DS thread!! USE the search function!!"
( everyone knows the search function is infaliable 100%)

This would be a good way for those who think post count is important to give back to the site by helping others. How fast will your post count rise when you are posting short and informative redirects to relevant threads to help newbies? You will feel good about helping people in the process.

4. The big brother approach that others mentioned is a good idea too, I don't know how well it would work though considering how fast this site is growing. I can see it it getting too big to handle if there are only a few people willing to big brother/sister for others.

Those are just a few of my lame suggestions. I think whatever Cheapy ultimately decides to do, it will only work if enforced without exceptions and favoritism.


edit: lol in the time it took me to write all that up, I see there are others who have the same idea about the no harrassment newb forum. - Smart minds think alike ;P
 
[quote name='Genocidal']Am I the only one that thinks he brought it on himself in that topic? I agree it's a problem elsewhere, but this guy seemed to be asking for it. Just what I got out of the first few posts (#1-11).[/QUOTE]
Brought it on himself, how? Unless he significantly edited his post after it was done, I didn't see anything that was objectionable to the point where a "this is already being discussed in other threads such as these ones, next time try out the search button before posting" wouldn't have sufficed.

It's funny. This isn't the first time I've seen hostility from people in a discussion about the 360's problems today. I have to wonder if this isn't just fanboyism run amok rather than anti-new poster sentiment.
 
[quote name='jmcc']This isn't the first time I've seen hostility from people in a discussion about the 360's problems today. I have to wonder if this isn't just fanboyism run amok rather than anti-new poster sentiment.[/QUOTE]
It's not a 360 problem that there is more demand than supply. Fanboyism doesn't quite fit right, but yeah there has been quite a bit of flaming from 360 supporters vs. PS3 supporters.

But it's usually the PS3 supporters going into a thread about a system they don't have an intrest in, and they want everyone to know about it.
 
Blind "newbie" flaming is lame -- especially when they're not doing anything wrong (hence "blind").

I honestly don't like the word "newbie". I don't really care how long someone has been on a board or web community or what have you. Seniority doesn't make you the shit. Period.

Now, if a "newbie" is trying too hard to be cool or trying to cause heat with someone who is "cool", that, too, is annoying.
 
[quote name='zewone']It's not a 360 problem that there is more demand than supply. Fanboyism doesn't quite fit right, but yeah there has been quite a bit of flaming from 360 supporters vs. PS3 supporters.

But it's usually the PS3 supporters going into a thread about a system they don't have an intrest in, and they want everyone to know about it.[/QUOTE]
I didn't go much past the first few posts of the second page in the thread discussed earlier. Did the PS3 even get mentioned? It wasn't on the other site's blurb about the 360 either, nor was it in comments on the story, but a guy popped up regardless, trolling the comments about how the site was biased somehow for reporting the 360's supply and reported quality control issues.
 
[quote name='zewone']It's not a 360 problem that there is more demand than supply. Fanboyism doesn't quite fit right, but yeah there has been quite a bit of flaming from 360 supporters vs. PS3 supporters.

But it's usually the PS3 supporters going into a thread about a system they don't have an intrest in, and they want everyone to know about it.[/QUOTE]

It's really hard to believe how much people "believe" in a video game system. It plays video games... has a couple other features... what is there to really defend? They have different games and features, but what is there really to argue about. One being better than the other is PURELY a matter of opinion. Nothing more.

~Zew, I wasnt directing this towards you, your post merely made me think of this.
 
Maybe I'm just in a bad mood because I'm freezing my ass off, but it seemed as if he was given an answer in the second post, and then proceeded to feed the troll (thagoat) in post 11, telling people to get back on topic and stop flaming when I didn't see any real flaming until after that post. So a couple different people told him that the recall was just a rumor. That seems on-topic to me, indicating that there would not likely be any less shipments than normal.

[quote name='karmapolice']It's really hard to believe how much people "believe" in a video game system. It plays video games... has a couple other features... what is there to really defend? They have different games and features, but what is there really to argue about. One being better than the other is PURELY a matter of opinion. Nothing more.

~Zew, I wasnt directing this towards you, your post merely made me think of this.[/quote]

CLEARLY U R ALL LAME!1!! DREMACAST 2 WILL PWN ALL UR PUNY CONSOLEZ!!!!!1!! IT EVEN HAS MINIFRIDGE, SONY ONLY HAS A GRILL. LOL. :booty::lol:
 
[quote name='karmapolice']It's really hard to believe how much people "believe" in a video game system. It plays video games... has a couple other features... what is there to really defend? They have different games and features, but what is there really to argue about. One being better than the other is PURELY a matter of opinion. Nothing more.

~Zew, I wasnt directing this towards you, your post merely made me think of this.[/QUOTE]
When there's multiple systems, and you don't have them all, naturally you're going to feel the need to defend your purchase.
 
[quote name='jmcc']I didn't go much past the first few posts of the second page in the thread discussed earlier. Did the PS3 even get mentioned? It wasn't on the other site's blurb about the 360 either, nor was it in comments on the story, but a guy popped up regardless, trolling the comments about how the site was biased somehow for reporting the 360's supply and reported quality control issues.[/QUOTE]
No, the PS3 was not mentioned in that thread, but I was referring to you bringing up the fact that the 360 being released has brought up more flames in the forums.
 
[quote name='Genocidal']Maybe I'm just in a bad mood because I'm freezing my ass off, but it seemed as if he was given an answer in the second post, and then proceeded to feed the troll (thagoat) in post 11, telling people to get back on topic and stop flaming when I didn't see any real flaming until after that post. So a couple different people told him that the recall was just a rumor. That seems on-topic to me, indicating that there would not likely be any less shipments than normal.[/QUOTE]
I don't know. I only saw people telling him the core system was still out there, despite him asking about the regular, and reminding him that it was a rumor, despite him having put that in the first line of his post. There wasn't anything I'd consider constructive going on until the links to the established threads on the subject were posted.
 
Going along with what a few other people have said in this thread, I think a Newbie forum wouldn't be a bad idea. The only way I could really see it working though would be with a zero tolerance policy -- if you flame/troll, you get banned from that forum. I think that would leave only those who actually wish to help and point newbies in the right direction, unfortunately, I'm not so sure how easy it would be to police, as I would think it would be a troller's paradise.

[quote name='jmcc']I don't know. I only saw people telling him the core system was still out there, despite him asking about the regular, and reminding him that it was a rumor, despite him having put that in the first line of his post. There wasn't anything I'd consider constructive going on until the links to the established threads on the subject were posted.[/quote]

Fair enough. Chalk that one up to me freezing my ass off then.
 
[quote name='zewone']No, the PS3 was not mentioned in that thread, but I was referring to you bringing up the fact that the 360 being released has brought up more flames in the forums.[/QUOTE]

fanboyism will never stop...

i like the welcome PM idea...

id like to think a welcome section would work, but im sure people would still be rude in it, even if its not as much...

also, i think there are times when a new guy warrants a flaming, sometimes they ask questions that are just downright dumb, like how much can i get at eb for these 10 games, those are lame no matter how new or old someone is...

but yeah, its pretty wild with the newbie flaming, although i may have done it before, i cant remember specifically, but im sure it happened once or twice
 
I cant remember one time i was getting sweenyed by JSweeny but who hasnt gotten sweenyed yet...Ill throw in my 2 dollars here...IMO i just think people flame because they want to. there are no real consequences that will effect how they act. If they get blocked or ban from this site that wont change who they are. i think people should just tolerate it and just help them out. Since they are a "newb" they really dont know what has been posted already and they probably still dont know how navigate through it hence the quick topic questions. i agree with karma...just make them feel welcomed and just give them some tips so they can avoid situations like the 360 thread.
 
[quote name='integralsmatic']I cant remember one time i was getting sweenyed by JSweeny but who hasnt gotten sweenyed yet...Ill throw in my 2 dollars here...IMO i just think people flame because they want to. there are no real consequences that will effect how they act. If they get blocked or ban from this site that wont change who they are. i think people should just tolerate it and just help them out. Since they are a "newb" they really dont know what has been posted already and they probably still dont know how navigate through it hence the quick topic questions. i agree with karma...just make them feel welcomed and just give them some tips so they can avoid situations like the 360 thread.[/QUOTE]
Sweeneyed? You mean you were getting lyrics posted at you?
 
[quote name='jmcc']Sweeneyed? You mean you were getting lyrics posted at you?[/QUOTE]

Or did he use the word "thier" on you yet? A variant of the word "their". :)
 
[quote name='zewone']Sweeneyed?
No.
You mean you were getting lyrics posted at you?
He means this crap. ;)[/QUOTE]

PAROD'D
 
I agree the flaming is a little rough. I mean, I get fucked around with all the time, but not flamed like these people do. There's just some people you can't stop, I guess. I look forward to Chepy's reply to your PM, OP.
 
I do agree with the idea of having a section for newcomers to CAG to post their "hello, I'm new around here" section myself. It would certainly help out by giving a chance for Mods/Admins to remind them of the forum rules and such as well.
 
[quote name='jmcc']And what activities were entailed in the pledge period?[/QUOTE]

If it's anything like the frat I was in, lots and lots of shit that isn't worth going through.
 
I'm going to some-what clear my name. A while back, I made a list of who I would rag on , but it was deleted by a certain mod who has it out for me (you know who you are). So here it is again:

1. People who don't bother to make any sense. (bad typing, rambling, etc.). You should learn how to write before trying to type.
2. Those who troll for no apparent reason. This includes the grammer nazis. One or two mistakes in a post won't kill anybody, so pull the stick out of your ass.
3. People who spam the boards with stuff only they think is funny. (The only person that comes to mind is Omega2 and his half-assed home videos).
4. The current issue...newbs who create welcome threads. There isn't a reason for it. You joined a board, whoopdie-friggin-do. Want a cookie?
5. People who actually get offended on the internet. Grow some balls. You'll never meet the guy, who cares what he has to say about you.
6. Post-whores. You bastards.

So.
Who have I recently shit-listed?...

VGM was a dick.
U2k is a fucking moron.
Omega2 was a douche.
Lina was a bitch.
Slidecage is semi-retarded.
Sequoia was a post-whore.
Sikz de Nye created that thread.
And after seeing that 360 thread, ThaGoat is on it too.

There is a rhyme and reason for what I do. Moxio said the thread I made was a joke on the first page. It wasn't supposed to be. The idiots who posted in it made it a joke. I gave cocky noobs a place to congregate- they should be happy. It was the other pricks who turned it into a fucking concentration camp.
 
I am glad this thread has popped up, I was considering posting something similar myself. It seems to me the newbie flaming (and flaming in general) has gotten a lot worse recently. Granted I have not been in these forums that long myself, but I mean just since I joined.

I don't know if a 'list' or something like that listing the people who do this kinda thing is the right way to go. These people want attention, be it good or bad, and being on a list would get thier names out there. I don't know if the mods have said anything to them in PM's, but I strongly think it should be done. After a couple of warnings, boot them. There is no reason for us to be asses to each other. We are all here for the love of video games and great deals. This is a great community with a lot of great people, lets don't let a few trolls bring it down.

I as well hope Cheapy chimes in on this one.
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']If it's anything like the frat I was in, lots and lots of shit that isn't worth going through.[/QUOTE]

Eating a butthair sandwich, sucking another pledge off, getting spanked with a wooden paddle, etc.

Yeah. Frats aren't too gay.
 
[quote name='Greetard']U2k is a fucking moron.[/QUOTE]

I'm not positive if U2k is real or not, but by no means do I think he should be banned for liking bad games. The way his topics are trolled is more annoying than anything he's ever done.
 
[quote name='Greetard']VGM was a dick.
U2k is a fucking moron.
Omega2 was a douche.
Lina was a bitch.
Slidecage is semi-retarded.
Sequoia was a post-whore.
And after seeing that 360 thread, ThaGoat is on it too.[/QUOTE]

Oh, come on. slidecage's posts are funny.
 
I think I read these topics about newbie flaming everyone three months or so. Nevertheless, I agree with it. OP I love your name! You trying to be a mod?
 
[quote name='Kayden']I don't mind noobs, but I just cant stand stupid people.[/QUOTE]

What's the difference?! #-o


__ IKIK
 
[quote name='beguile']I think I read these topics about newbie flaming everyone three months or so. Nevertheless, I agree with it. OP I love your name! You trying to be a mod?[/QUOTE]

There have been a couple of these threads in the past, but nothing has really amounted from them. Thanks, I got it from the radiohead song. No im not really trying to be a mod, I would love to be one, but Ive never been offered and if Cheapy wants me as one then he will come to me and ask. Im not gunna push for anything. :lol:
 
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