Nintendo 3DS - General Discussion Thread

[quote name='VideoGameCollector17']Hey gamers, I'm hoping to get some help. I'm purchasing the Fire Emblem 3DS Bundle via Craigslist, and everything is pretty new. Seller played once, wasn't his thing and is now selling. I had a question on taking care of the system. Like I wanna know what would be the best case for the system? Then another question is 4GB a good size storage for the 3DS? Does the system have the game pre-installed with 4GB memory left, or 4GB minus the game. Thanks![/QUOTE]

As far as the pre-installed game, I'm pretty sure 4gb is the size of the SD card and Fire Emblem uses up part of that 4gb. So if FE was 1gb (It probably isn't), you'd have 3gb left.

The one thing I'd be worried about is linking my account to that 3DS/SD card and still having access to the game...
 
[quote name='elessar123']Class is mostly useless. It's a rating of sequential writes only. That pretty much only matters when copying large files. [/QUOTE]

My understanding of the current class system is read and write. The card I linked for Class 10 is at 40MB/s on read and write. Though when talking about cameras, most people only refer to the write speed. I may be wrong on that particular thing, but everything I've found in the past when researching SD cards hasn't really pointed it to being write only requirement.

And yes, Random Read isn't really that great in a vast majority of cases as you're reading a single cluster and then jumping to another random cluster which tests the seek time more than anything.

[quote name='elessar123']Some Class 4s will be faster than Class 10s at random write speeds, which is what matters when saving. None of those indicate anything about reading, which is what affects loading.[/QUOTE]

Depends on how the card was formatted. 3DS recommends FAT16, however that only allows for partitions of up to 2GB. So anything beyond that uses FAT32. Most people use defaults, so a 4GB card would be formatted into 4k cluster sizes whereas a 32GB is in 32K cluster sizes. So the actual seek time should be fairly similar between the two and there won't be much difference in if what the system is reading is small, yes.

Most of what I'm referring to are downloaded games or applications that are usually bigger and so long as you aren't deleting and re-adding a bunch of stuff so the sequential speeds quite often kick in. Saves though will be about the same unless the developer wrote a terrible save system and there's nothing you can do about that regardless of the card.
 
[quote name='Draekon']My understanding of the current class system is read and write. The card I linked for Class 10 is at 40MB/s on read and write. Though when talking about cameras, most people only refer to the write speed. I may be wrong on that particular thing, but everything I've found in the past when researching SD cards hasn't really pointed it to being write only requirement.[/QUOTE]

Class had nothing to do with read speeds, and I'm pretty sure never has. Some manufactures make up stuff. Transcend, for example, have class 10s that write at only 10 MB/s, when the spec is supposed to be something like 25 MB/s on sequential writes. They do it obviously to sell more to unsuspecting costumers. No one actually tests them either, so they can put whatever they want.

[quote name='Draekon'] Most of what I'm referring to are downloaded games or applications that are usually bigger and so long as you aren't deleting and re-adding a bunch of stuff so the sequential speeds quite often kick in. Saves though will be about the same unless the developer wrote a terrible save system and there's nothing you can do about that regardless of the card.[/QUOTE]

Saves can actually matter a great deal, where some Class 2s and Class 4s can write small blocks like a hundred times faster than most Class 10s. In something save heavy, like Etrian Odyssey...

If you're interested, look up SD benchmarks. It pretty clearly demonstrates how useless how the class system is mostly useless.
 
[quote name='elessar123']Class had nothing to do with read speeds, and I'm pretty sure never has. Some manufactures make up stuff. Transcend, for example, have class 10s that write at only 10 MB/s, when the spec is supposed to be something like 25 MB/s on sequential writes. They do it obviously to sell more to unsuspecting costumers. No one actually tests them either, so they can put whatever they want. [/QUOTE]

https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/pls/simplified_specs/part1_410.pdf

See section 3.4 for regards to what Class actually means. The 25MB/s number you're getting is the bus speed, which you can find in the same PDF at section 3.9.6. It's a little more complicated though.

And yes, there are companies out there that will abuse the standards, whether it's due to their inability to make anything better or they just want a cash grab at naive people. My original post still stated that people should always research further. Unfortunately however most people only look at the price and that it's a higher number listed on the box. This is an issue with everything and why we have so many thriving shitty companies producing shitty products and there's no way to change that without somehow mass educating the consumer.



[quote name='elessar123']Saves can actually matter a great deal, where some Class 2s and Class 4s can write small blocks like a hundred times faster than most Class 10s. In something save heavy, like Etrian Odyssey... [/QUOTE]

I'm curious where you're getting "hundred times faster" from. That would be an insane amount, which I'm certain isn't true. And your speed on saving will ultimately depend on the cluster size the card is formatted to and the size of the save data. While 4K Random Write/Read is a good number to get an idea on how slow it can possibly go, it's not a common real world number that you use unless your card is formatted in 4K cluster size.

And while I can't really see the inner workings of Etrian Odyssey, one thing I do know is it saves four times. It saves the game data, backs up the game data (To help stave off save corruption maybe?), then saves the map data and finally saves street pass data. If they cut it down to two operations to save, I'd be willing to bet that it would significantly increase the save speed alone regardless of the card you use. Of course I can't be certain as I don't have access to the source code.

I would test this as well if I bought it digitally, but unfortunately I didn't. So the only thing that gets saved to my SD card is the street pass data.


[quote name='elessar123']If you're interested, look up SD benchmarks. It pretty clearly demonstrates how useless how the class system is mostly useless.[/QUOTE]

Most of these benchmarks are from 2011 and don't really include Class 4, but instead Class 6 and higher. Newer versions of the same card have since come out with increased speeds. Often making user images on the purchase page outdated or the benchmarks outdated because they don't get a separate store page with the old one discontinued. (I'm more talking about Amazon here as it's the frequent go-to place for most online people)

For example, the card I linked had increased in speed since 2011 benchmarks as it was 30MB/s then and is 40-45MB/s now. This is mostly a sequential increase, but that's the main focus on SD cards as they are mostly used in cameras and video cameras where you want that. And yes, you won't see a big increase between card classes that only write/read 4K worth of data in random spots. This is why you format things into larger cluster sizes to take advantage of having to random read less and increase times because the same amount of data separated in 4K clusters will take longer than the same data separated out in 32K clusters (Less I/O overhead in larger clusters).



(And yes, I wish we had a different system. It's not totally broken though, unlike the contrast ratio you see on televisions and monitors because there is no standard at all)
 
[quote name='Draekon']https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/pls/simplified_specs/part1_410.pdf

See section 3.4 for regards to what Class actually means. The 25MB/s number you're getting is the bus speed, which you can find in the same PDF at section 3.9.6. It's a little more complicated though.[/QUOTE]

Um, what? From the PDF you referenced, Section 3.4: "Five Speed Classes are defined and indicate minimum performance of the cards."

"Speed Class and UHS Speed Class* symbols indicate minimum writing performance to ensure smooth writing of streaming content such as video shooting."

BTW, 3.9.6 means just about nothing in relation to SD Card classes.

[quote name='Draekon']I'm curious where you're getting "hundred times faster" from. That would be an insane amount, which I'm certain isn't true.[/QUOTE]

Don't feel like pulling it up, but it's shown in benchmarks. There are some SanDisk SD Cards that do random read/writes a hundred times faster than other brands' "Class 10" cards, whether it's in 4K or 32K clusters. Problem comes from things like latency. A vendor can focus on hardware to make it write at 50 MB/s, and absolutely kill the random read/write speeds.

Anyways, my point wasn't to start an argument, and I frankly don't want to continue. I do enough of this stuff at work, I don't want to come home to it.
 
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Anyone using 32gb sandisk ultra for their 3ds? This is my 2nd card after replacing the faulty one i initially got. Im getting the "Sd card removed" error every now and then. Tried reformatting and all. Not sure if this is still a card problem or is it size specific. I used to use a 8gb one and seems like that was more stable. Any ideas?
 
I had a similar problem with a big card and there was nothing I could do in the end. The game icons kept disappearing. Send it back and try another. Oddly enough, I had no trouble with a 32gb microsd and adapter
 
i bought a bigger version of the card that came in my 3DS. It sometimes gives me weird errors about "extra data" related to Find Mii / Streetpass. My games haven't had problems though. I wrote it off as just a quark of the system
 
[quote name='elessar123']Um, what? From the PDF you referenced, Section 3.4: "Five Speed Classes are defined and indicate minimum performance of the cards."

"Speed Class and UHS Speed Class* symbols indicate minimum writing performance to ensure smooth writing of streaming content such as video shooting."

BTW, 3.9.6 means just about nothing in relation to SD Card classes.[/QUOTE]

Yes because in my original post I stated:

Class 4 is "Minimum 4MB/s" whereas Class 10 is "Minimum 10MB/s"
I am backing up my original statement and if you didn't understand that, then there is a disconnect between what I said and what you're saying.

As for the 3.9.6, the only reason I linked that is to point out where you're getting your 25MB/s from in the post I was replying to.



[quote name='elessar123']Don't feel like pulling it up, but it's shown in benchmarks. There are some SanDisk SD Cards that do random read/writes a hundred times faster than other brands' "Class 10" cards, whether it's in 4K or 32K clusters. Problem comes from things like latency. A vendor can focus on hardware to make it write at 50 MB/s, and absolutely kill the random read/write speeds.

Anyways, my point wasn't to start an argument, and I frankly don't want to continue. I do enough of this stuff at work, I don't want to come home to it.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately with a claim like that I won't believe it until I see it. I'm also fine with discontinuing the discussion. My point wasn't to argue but to back up what I said to show why I said it. I don't think we're too far off in agreement of what we're saying.

You're also not the only one in a similar field of work. ;)
 
Recently got a 32GB Sandisk to upgrade from the original that came with my 3DS XL. Doing the transfer though and every single computer I've tried to transfer with gives me an "unreadable or corrupted file" error right at the end of the copying process from the original SD card to the desktop. It's the file named 00000004.app.

I haven't downloaded any games from the eShop, just the updated version of Swapnote and the only digital game on there is Super Mario Land that came bundled with the system. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks for your help.
 
[quote name='SteveMcQ']Recently got a 32GB Sandisk to upgrade from the original that came with my 3DS XL. Doing the transfer though and every single computer I've tried to transfer with gives me an "unreadable or corrupted file" error right at the end of the copying process from the original SD card to the desktop. It's the file named 00000004.app.

I haven't downloaded any games from the eShop, just the updated version of Swapnote and the only digital game on there is Super Mario Land that came bundled with the system. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks for your help.[/QUOTE]

Copy everything but that file. The system should recreate it when you insert the new card.
 
there's a frigging lot of games on sale right now
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341286


3D Classics: Kirby's Adventure - $4.99 - End 5/9
Aero Porter - $2.99 - Ends 5/30
Art of Balance: Touch - $4.99 - Ends 5/9
ATV Wild Ride 3D - $5.99 - Ends 5/2
Crimson Shroud - $4.99 - Ends 5/30
Dillon's Rolling Western - $6.99 - Ends 5/9
Fluidity: Spin Cycle - $7.99 - Ends 5/9
Fun! Fun! Minigolf TOUCH! - $3.49 - Ends 5/9
Liberation Maiden - $4.99 - Ends 5/30
Nano Assault EX - $9.99 - Ends 5/9
Pushmo - $4.99 - Ends 5/9
Tokyo Crash Mobs - $4.99 - Ends 5/9
 
[quote name='DNukem170']Isn't Crimson Shroud the 3D shooter with anime cut scenes? Or is that a different game?[/QUOTE]

That is Liberation Maiden, also on sale. Crimson Shroud is the tabletop D&Dish game.
 
[quote name='moothemagiccow']there's a frigging lot of games on sale right now
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341286


3D Classics: Kirby's Adventure - $4.99 - End 5/9
Aero Porter - $2.99 - Ends 5/30
Art of Balance: Touch - $4.99 - Ends 5/9
ATV Wild Ride 3D - $5.99 - Ends 5/2
Crimson Shroud - $4.99 - Ends 5/30
Dillon's Rolling Western - $6.99 - Ends 5/9
Fluidity: Spin Cycle - $7.99 - Ends 5/9
Fun! Fun! Minigolf TOUCH! - $3.49 - Ends 5/9
Liberation Maiden - $4.99 - Ends 5/30
Nano Assault EX - $9.99 - Ends 5/9
Pushmo - $4.99 - Ends 5/9
Tokyo Crash Mobs - $4.99 - Ends 5/9[/QUOTE]

Thanks, I didn't notice this. I thought I was dumb to wait for a Pushmo sale, but yay! :bouncy:
 
So since I can't reclaim the things I downloaded on my first 3DS (long since sold) is there any disadvantage to buying one used? Aside from the usual stuff I mean.
 
[quote name='jza1218']So since I can't reclaim the things I downloaded on my first 3DS (long since sold) is there any disadvantage to buying one used? Aside from the usual stuff I mean.[/QUOTE]

Define 'usual stuff.'
 
[quote name='KingBroly']Define 'usual stuff.'[/QUOTE]

Just the usual dangers in buying any console used as opposed to new. Cleanliness, missing things, etc.
 
Well the stylus is replaceable and you might not miss the AR cards.

I heard they fixed the top screen smudge problem on the newer models but I can't verify.
 
Got Mutant Mudds while it was on sale and have been going through it. It starts off feeling a little too generic and simplistic, but about half-way through it starts to bring the old-school hurt! Especially the secret areas, talk about unforgiving precision platforming.
 
According to the 3DS eShop, Animal Crossing is going to be $34.99 when it releases. I don't know if the retail version is going to be the same price.
 
Shantae is coming to the Virtual Console in late June. I've never played the original, so I'm looking forward to trying it out. There's a DSiWare sequel from a couple years ago, as well as another sequel due to come to the eShop sometime this year. It'll be nice to have the whole series on one platform.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']According to the 3DS eShop, Animal Crossing is going to be $34.99 when it releases. I don't know if the retail version is going to be the same price.[/QUOTE]

DKCR is going to be $35 too. I think Pokemon Mystery Dungeon was $35, but I'm not sure since I didn't buy it. I think Nintendo is going back to their DS pricing structure with games, or they're just testing out the price to see if it spurs software sales.


As for missing things with buying a used 3DS, you may not have the charging cradle (this is a big one), the year-long warranty, it might be missing an SD card and no AR cards.
 
So i caved in and bought the xl circle pad pro from the nintendo store. Came up to $26.99 (shipping + tax). Better than paying $40+ to import from japan.

Question: how long does it take for it to be shipped? Does it come with a box? (Read that some came in just a plastic bag) hopefully mine gets to me in perfect condition. This is the first time i ordered from the nintendo store so i dont know what to expect.
 
[quote name='CAGkrazy']So i caved in and bought the xl circle pad pro from the nintendo store. Came up to $26.99 (shipping + tax). Better than paying $40+ to import from japan.

Question: how long does it take for it to be shipped? Does it come with a box? (Read that some came in just a plastic bag) hopefully mine gets to me in perfect condition. This is the first time i ordered from the nintendo store so i dont know what to expect.[/QUOTE]

It doesn't have any packaging... when you open the shipping box you'll find the CPP XL in a non-sealed plastic bag with an instruction booklet and no battery.

Shipping-wise, might be up to a week to reach you depending on where you live.
 
[quote name='CAGkrazy']So i caved in and bought the xl circle pad pro from the nintendo store. Came up to $26.99 (shipping + tax). Better than paying $40+ to import from japan.

Question: how long does it take for it to be shipped? Does it come with a box? (Read that some came in just a plastic bag) hopefully mine gets to me in perfect condition. This is the first time i ordered from the nintendo store so i dont know what to expect.[/QUOTE]

They've dropped a good bit on eBay. I've imported two now, both at about 21 bucks a piece. Either way, enjoy it. The thing's pretty amazing. Grip's way more comfortable on top of all the control enhancements.
 
Polygon gave it a 9. I'm definitely getting it - I love this series and have yet to be disappointed. Also, you can't beat the price.
 
[quote name='johnnypark']Got Mutant Mudds while it was on sale and have been going through it. It starts off feeling a little too generic and simplistic, but about half-way through it starts to bring the old-school hurt! Especially the secret areas, talk about unforgiving precision platforming.[/QUOTE]

Dang! I need to check this thread more often! That's my 'go to' demo after Luigi's Mansion pisses me off!:D
 
Crimson Shroud is really great.

As a former D&D player, I won't say that it gets everything down perfectly, but it certainly feels more like you're sitting around a table, getting things described to you as opposed to being fully immersed in the world. That sounds bad but I think it's neat.
 
THe Mii Plaza. Is there a way to filter the Mii's? I have over 650, it gets annoying trying to find the high level ones.

Also I have 2 3DS's now, anything cool or beneficial I can do with street passes?
 
[quote name='Halo05']Crimson Shroud is really great.

As a former D&D player, I won't say that it gets everything down perfectly, but it certainly feels more like you're sitting around a table, getting things described to you as opposed to being fully immersed in the world. That sounds bad but I think it's neat.[/QUOTE]

I really enjoyed the title as well. I'm no D&D player, but Vagrant Story is my number one favorite game and this piece just reeks of it's art direction and production sense. Music, characters, everything about it felt like a spiritual successor to me. I just beat it over lunch yesterday and can't wait to start up NG+.
 
[quote name='nixmahn']THe Mii Plaza. Is there a way to filter the Mii's? I have over 650, it gets annoying trying to find the high level ones.

Also I have 2 3DS's now, anything cool or beneficial I can do with street passes?[/QUOTE]

No, you cannot filter Miis yet.

As for 2 3DS, you can use it to easily fill up the country/region achievements and load up on different colored Level 7s.
 
[quote name='Josh5890']Will there be a demo for Animal Crossing? I've never played an AC game before and there seems to be a lot of hype around this.[/QUOTE]

I don't know if there will be a demo, but the Animal Crossing games are akin to the Harvest Moon games if you've ever played any of those.

It's basically a "life sim". You character moves into town and is given a house (and mortgage) which you pay off by doing odd jobs for other town residents, and selling items that are found, fished, dug up, etc. There is also a collectable aspect as you try to furnish the town museum with one of each bug, fossil, fish, and artwork. There are events in town that occur in relation to the real world calendar (Halloween, Christmas, 4th of July, etc.), and real world clock (ie. you'll catch different fish/bugs during the day/night or season).
 
Had to send in the 3DS XL for repair (broken hinge). Nintendo seems to presume that any physical defect is caused by user damage, which wasn't the situation in my case. To their credit, after a lot of arguing they waived a considerable portion of the repair fee. I would have argued further, but the repair includes a full year warranty.

I also filled out a survey complaining about the license transfer process and the risk of lost saved data and surprisingly got a call back from someone sympathetic but sounding burnt out from having to deal with this process in general.
 
Just got off the phone with Nintendo regarding previously games I downloaded on my 3DS that I no longer have access too. Was hoping to be able to download them on my XL, but no luck. Thought maybe they'd issue me a credit or something to my account but alas.
 
[quote name='jza1218']Just got off the phone with Nintendo regarding previously games I downloaded on my 3DS that I no longer have access too. Was hoping to be able to download them on my XL, but no luck. Thought maybe they'd issue me a credit or something to my account but alas.[/QUOTE]

If you had them both at the same time you could have done a transfer. Other than that, your out of luck.
 
[quote name='moothemagiccow']If you sold the 3DS, you sold the games. I don't understand why people don't get this.[/QUOTE]

Because no other console does that? Because it's a terrible way of doing things?
 
[quote name='jza1218']Because no other console does that? Because it's a terrible way of doing things?[/QUOTE]

There are other consoles that do that.
The Wii and DSi. Not to mention the Master System having a pre-installed game.
 
[quote name='jza1218']Because no other console does that? Because it's a terrible way of doing things?[/QUOTE]

Hang around here long enough and you'll hear me rage about this. But truth be told its been this way since the Wii launched 7 years ago and Nintendo refuses to join us in the modern era. Because of the way every other company handles digital content its easy to assume games/DLC transfer, but even on the Wii U its strictly attached to hardware. I think most regular gamer types realize this but its definitely confusing, unintuitive, and misleading to the average consumer.

If your 3DS was stolen, they even ask for a police report in order to replace digital content, even though Club Nintendo shows everything you've bought. Its archaic.
 
[quote name='jza1218']Because no other console does that? Because it's a terrible way of doing things?[/QUOTE]
It's been a well-known issue for a long time now.
 
I didn't know about it until well after I got rid of my 3DS. Don't understand why people feel the need to defend Nintendo for it though.
 
[quote name='jza1218']I didn't know about it until well after I got rid of my 3DS. Don't understand why people feel the need to defend Nintendo for it though.[/QUOTE]

I don't think anyone actually defense the practice, most people think it's totally ass backwards. It's more that the system has been out for quite a while now and we knew what we signed up for. Some people just don't buy digital games on Nintendo platforms because of it. Personally that's why I would not buy retail games, but I'm fine with $5 downloads.
 
[quote name='jza1218']I didn't know about it until well after I got rid of my 3DS. Don't understand why people feel the need to defend Nintendo for it though.[/QUOTE]
I'm not defending them. It's been one of their biggest criticisms for years because they make you go through ridiculous hurdles for a chance at getting back things you've paid for.
 
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