Official 2011-12 NFL Regular Season Thread

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[quote name='bvharris']Barring another Super Bowl matchup (which I'll happily take since it means the Patriots are in the Super Bowl) they don't need to see them again until 2015. I'm alright with that.[/QUOTE]

Shouldn't be to hard for the Patriots, the AFC is a little weak right now. Its going to be much harder for the Giants to return than the Patriots.
 
I been saying it all season, Patriots need a legit deep threat.

Imagine Brady with a Calvin Johnson (DET) or Andre Johnson (HOU) type receiver. We saw how well Brady work reviving Moss. I know its not going to happen though. They need to make severe changes during the off season.
 
[quote name='Nate Nanjo']Shouldn't be to hard for the Patriots, the AFC is a little weak right now. Its going to be much harder for the Giants to return than the Patriots.[/QUOTE]

That's why while I'm obviously sad I'm not heartbroken. The Patriots window is a long way from being closed. Sign one more WR, retool the defense, and come back to work next year.
 
[quote name='bvharris']They were up at the time. There were a million little things that went wrong in this game, not all of them on Brady.

Ninkovich being a step offsides on the 3rd down a few plays before the Manningham catch? Incomplete pass, Giants would have had to punt.

Brady made a couple dumb plays, but overall he played well. I can't put the whole thing on him.[/QUOTE]
He made two horrendous, game changing plays. Not because of circumstance, not because others let him down, not because the other team made a great play, he simply made two massive fuck ups.

The guy has a family, kids, a billionaire supermodel wife and a baby mama, he's jet setting all over South America and Europe in the offseason, his focus isn't on football like it once was. It happens. It shows in his play.
 
[quote name='4thHorseman']Well, Giants win unfortunately. Bah. Though I find it funny all the complaining about the refs except when it comes to benefitting the Pats. No mention of the 2 seconds the refs didnt give back after the spike? That would have given them at least one more play to use. Oh well.[/QUOTE]

You're really gonna bring up 2 seconds. Really?
 
They did get screwed by that Indy timekeeper at least 3 times but I don't think it made any difference, I wouldn't have brought it up. Not worth discussing.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']He made two horrendous, game changing plays. Not because of circumstance, not because others let him down, not because the other team made a great play, he simply made two massive fuck ups.[/QUOTE]

The interception was not the difference in the game. The Giants got the ball on the eight yard line and didn't score (I was wrong, the Nink penalty was actually on that drive). New England got the ball back again 5 minutes later with the score exactly the same as the time of the pick. Not scoring on the next drive was just as costly as not scoring on the previous one, pick or not.

Nor was the interception a "massive fuck up". He had Gronk deep 1-on-1 against a linebacker. I want him to throw that ball every time, I'm sure most Patriots fan do - this wasn't chucking it up to Matthew Slater in double coverage. He underthrew it a bit, Blackburn made a great play on it.

The safety I'll give you, but that wasn't the difference in the game either. Brady wasn't perfect, but it's not fair to put the loss squarely on his shoulders.
 
[quote name='pitfallharry219']Bradshaw just set himself up to possibly be the biggest idiot in Super Bowl history.[/QUOTE]

Honestly, it wasn't THAT bad of a play. Of course I understand the reasoning in running the clock down to the minimum and going for the field goal. However, that doesn't account for a botched snap or even a crazy shank. That puts all your eggs in one basket and if something goes wrong, you lose.

Ultimately, you take points when you can get points and trust your defense. Defense is what got the Giants there, and they played outstanding in the 2nd half. It is ironic though that the Giants had to settle for field goals much of the night when they were trying to score touchdowns. Then, at the end of the game, they WANT a field goal and "accidentally" score a touchdown. But I guess Eli is in Brady's league after all. :)
 
[quote name='Poor2More']I been saying it all season, Patriots need a legit deep threat.

Imagine Brady with a Calvin Johnson (DET) or Andre Johnson (HOU) type receiver. We saw how well Brady work reviving Moss. I know its not going to happen though. They need to make severe changes during the off season.[/QUOTE]

I'm trying to imagine the Patriots with a Johnson...and I just can't do it.






:lol:
 
[quote name='bvharris']The interception was not the difference in the game. The Giants got the ball on the eight yard line and didn't score (I was wrong, the Nink penalty was actually on that drive). New England got the ball back again 5 minutes later with the score exactly the same as the time of the pick. Not scoring on the next drive was just as costly as not scoring on the previous one, pick or not.

Nor was the interception a "massive fuck up". He had Gronk deep 1-on-1 against a linebacker. I want him to throw that ball every time, I'm sure most Patriots fan do - this wasn't chucking it up to Matthew Slater in double coverage. He underthrew it a bit, Blackburn made a great play on it.

The safety I'll give you, but that wasn't the difference in the game either. Brady wasn't perfect, but it's not fair to put the loss squarely on his shoulders.[/QUOTE]
It was a massive underthrow. He should be hitting Gronkowski in stride, not making him stop and come back for a ball when he had a step on a guy, his bad throw made it a jump ball. It was a really bad throw.

Welker was wide open, there was no reason he should've made that difficult for Welker to catch. 50/50 blame.

And how can you not say that the safety wasn't a difference in the game? Thats 9 points right off the bat! Brady displayed greatness at times, two phenomenal drives before and after the half, but when he needed to come through he sucked.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']I'm trying to imagine the Patriots with a Johnson...and I just can't do it.






:lol:[/QUOTE]

They though they were getting a Johnson, but they got an Ochocinco instead.

Or the wanted a Johnson, but had to settle with an Ochocinco instead.
 
[quote name='Poor2More']I been saying it all season, Patriots need a legit deep threat.

Imagine Brady with a Calvin Johnson (DET) or Andre Johnson (HOU) type receiver. We saw how well Brady work reviving Moss. I know its not going to happen though. They need to make severe changes during the off season.[/QUOTE]

I agree about needing a deep threat, but if "severe" changes need to be made, it's on the defensive side.

Let's not overstate it though, the Patriots are hardly in a bad position for next year. Most of the offense will be back (assuming Welker re-signs, and I can't imagine they won't at least franchise him), and the D should be better with a healthy Chung and Spikes, as well as if Ras-I Dowling could contribute something.

Get a receiver, draft some pass rushers and a safety (or a corner if you're serious about converting McCourty, which I wouldn't be yet), and go from there.

The team just made the Super Bowl, it's not like they're going into rebuilding mode.
 
[quote name='Nate Nanjo']They though they were getting a Johnson, but they got an Ochocinco instead.

Or the wanted a Johnson, but had to settle with an Ochocinco instead.[/QUOTE]

Hahaha, touche. :)
 
Naw, Gronk played like shit the entire game. He shouldnt have even been out there if he was that hurt. He didnt even fight for that ball...the LB basically just shoved him a little and Gronk let him grab it without trying to bat it down.

The problem wasnt even the offensive it was their shitty defense that finally came to bite them in the ass. For the love of god how about you try stopping someone when it counts. How about some real pressure on the QB? How about not giving up a 40 yard pass right out of the gate on their last possession. How about actually recovering the fumbles?

I really wanted the Pats to win but I am glad they didnt. They didnt deserve it at all. I hate Eli but I love the G-men and their solid defense.
 
The safety would not have been that bad if they didn't have 12 guys on the field when they recovered their only Giants fumble of the game on the next drive, which would've gotten them out of that jam only down by two points.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']
The problem wasnt even the offensive it was their shitty defense that finally came to bite them in the ass. For the love of god how about you try stopping someone when it counts. How about some real pressure on the QB? How about not giving up a 40 yard pass right out of the gate on their last possession. How about actually recovering the fumbles?
[/QUOTE]

If you'd told me before the game that the D would hold the Giants to 19 points, I would have taken that. The defense was far from great, but that's because they're not a great defense. They played well enough to give the offense a chance to win, that's all I expect out of the 2011 Pats D. As for the fumbles, both bounced straight at Giants. That's just bad luck, you can't really blame the D for the bounce of the football.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']It was a massive underthrow. He should be hitting Gronkowski in stride, not making him stop and come back for a ball when he had a step on a guy, his bad throw made it a jump ball. It was a really bad throw.

Welker was wide open, there was no reason he should've made that difficult for Welker to catch. 50/50 blame.

And how can you not say that the safety wasn't a difference in the game? Thats 9 points right off the bat! Brady displayed greatness at times, two phenomenal drives before and after the half, but when he needed to come through he sucked.[/QUOTE]

I'm not contesting that it was a bad throw, I'm just saying that ultimately it was not the difference in the game. A missed scoring chance is a missed scoring chance, pick or punt. I want him to throw that ball, if he threw a pick in the flat and the Giants returned it for six, or converted it into points at all, I'd feel differently about it.

It wasn't a perfect throw to Welker either, but Welker catches that ball 99 times out of 100.

Brady was a hell of a lot better than he was against the Ravens, a game they won because they got the lucky breaks. In this game, they didn't (like the aforementioned fumbles always bouncing right to Giants). Football is just a funny game sometimes. I'm not going to crucify the guy for the performance. Could he have been better? Of course. But he wasn't dreadful.
 
[quote name='bvharris']If you'd told me before the game that the D would hold the Giants to 19 points, I would have taken that. The defense was far from great, but that's because they're not a great defense. They played well enough to give the offense a chance to win, that's all I expect out of the 2011 Pats D. As for the fumbles, both bounced straight at Giants. That's just bad luck, you can't really blame the D for the bounce of the football.[/QUOTE]

They are not even far from great but horrid in every way.

I just hope this shows people that this gimmick all offense all the time way to play isnt going to work in the long run. (although they did get to the superbowl dont know how angry can you be)


Meh, ah well, the Pats were a mix of unlucky and crappy while the G-men were good to above average in everything. Sigh, god damn I hate Eli.

Now to ignore ESPN for the next month.
 
Owned

Ak7iLNpCAAAcg24.jpg
 
I agree Brady had a damn fine game, few mistakes though. Welker, as the commentator said "Welker catches that pass 100/100 times" The change in the game was the fumble that was nulled because of 12 men on the field. The fumbles were bouncing the Giant ways all night, but shit happens. Grunk obviously was less then 100%, I mean come on he only had 2 receptions for 26 yards, If he was healthy he would of payed a huge impact on the entire game. Grunk would of out ran that LB easily, and out jumped him during that interception.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']although they did get to the superbowl dont know how angry can you be[/QUOTE]

I'm sad, but I'm not angry at all. Even though losses like this - and the Red Sox September collapse - are painful as all hell, I still feel fortunate to be a fan of teams which contend annually. Not every sports fan gets that feeling, and it's been a great decade to be a fan of Boston sports. I consider myself lucky to root for teams that at least put themselves in the position for me to get periodically punched in the gut as a fan. Following teams that never win anything is far worse, and I know that from experience. Got to take the good with the bad.

And dafoomie - As for who deserves the blame, ultimately it's subjective. If you want to put it on Brady, I can't tell you not to do that. Eli definitely outplayed him, I won't argue that. The plays I'll be replaying in my head over the next few weeks are the Manningham catch and the Welker drop, but I'm sure it'll be different for every Pats fan.
 
[quote name='renique46']Owned

Ak7iLNpCAAAcg24.jpg
[/QUOTE]
I must not understand how the hell betting works in Vegas, because who the hell would blow $1,000 to guess the first scoring play is Safety.
 
[quote name='bvharris']I'm not contesting that it was a bad throw, I'm just saying that ultimately it was not the difference in the game. A missed scoring chance is a missed scoring chance, pick or punt. I want him to throw that ball, if he threw a pick in the flat and the Giants returned it for six, or converted it into points at all, I'd feel differently about it.[/QUOTE]
Your assuming they don't otherwise score on that drive. They get 7 with a good throw.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Your assuming they don't otherwise score on that drive. They get 7 with a good throw.[/QUOTE]

Could well be. See above though. Ultimately it's subjective, I'm sure every Pats fan will be haunted by different plays. For example I'm more haunted by both the Samuel dropped pick and Eli escaping the sack on the Tyree catch then the catch itself from 42.

Like I said though, got to take the good with the bad. I'll take the 3 Super Bowl wins and 2 losses over the past decade than no appearances at all.
 
[quote name='Poor2More']I must not understand how the hell betting works in Vegas, because who the hell would blow $1,000 to guess the first scoring play is Safety.[/QUOTE]

You can hedge your bets by betting on other variations/outcomes. Thus, the hefty $1,000 bet ends up not being all that bad.
 
[quote name='Poor2More']I must not understand how the hell betting works in Vegas, because who the hell would blow $1,000 to guess the first scoring play is Safety.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='gbpackers94']Rich people or gamblIng addicts. So how much $ did he win? 50,000?[/QUOTE]

Just a rich gambling addict taking some long odds, but that is a mediocre payout. He got 50K profit, but I could have sworn the odds were wider for that prop.

I thought I remembered seeing the "First Score Safety" prop being at +9999 (which means a hundred dollars would get you $9,999).
 
that was awesome!

Does the "let them score" ever work? I remember Green Bay tried it against Denver with the same result.
 
[quote name='usickenme']that was awesome!

Does the "let them score" ever work? I remember Green Bay tried it against Denver with the same result.[/QUOTE]

I can't say that I blame New England for it. They were in a shitty situation and had to make something of it. It was either that or put your faith in blocking the field goal. Neither was a great scenario, but they opted to give Brady as much time as possible to move them down the field. What they didn't count on was Welker and Hernandez dropping balls on that possession.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']I can't say that I blame New England for it. They were in a shitty situation and had to make something of it. It was either that or put your faith in blocking the field goal. Neither was a great scenario, but they opted to give Brady as much time as possible to move them down the field. What they didn't count on was Welker and Hernandez dropping balls on that possession.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Knowing that, even with a 2 pt conversion, at worst you'll be down 6 that was the best strategy. One minute on the clock with three timeouts is an eternity for Brady and that offense. Without those dropped balls they might have pulled it off. When the Giants went out of bounds in the red zone and Bradshaw failed to go down at the goal line I was sure they had screwed themselves.

[quote name='dafoomie']Has anyone ever taken 7 cornerbacks in a single draft?[/QUOTE] Well if it hasn't been done then NE would be the team that would be the first...
 
what a boring game, i just couldn't make it through anymore after the 3rd quarter. Sloppy play the entire game by both teams, and now I have to sit through IS ELI ELITE!!!??!?!! for the next 6 months of sportscenter.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Has anyone ever taken 7 cornerbacks in a single draft?[/QUOTE]

If the first priority is cornerback and not safety, that means they're going to move McCourty permanently. I'm still not sure that I think that's the best idea longterm, but we'll see.
 
[quote name='Chitown021']When the Giants went out of bounds in the red zone and Bradshaw failed to go down at the goal line I was sure they had screwed themselves.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but as I said in an earlier post, people forget that Brady still had to work against a Giants defense that had prevented him from doing anything since the first possession of the 3rd quarter. Even with 60 seconds and 1 timeout, that was a pretty tall order. Bradshaw may have "accidentally scored", but he also could have been the reason his team won the Super Bowl if a botched snap, blocked kick, or completely shanked ball had occurred. Could you imagine if the Giants had kneeled the ball twice on the 1 yard line, then kicked the field goal off the uprights? The chastizing for not taking the TD would have been never ending.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']Yeah, but as I said in an earlier post, people forget that Brady still had to work against a Giants defense that had prevented him from doing anything since the first possession of the 3rd quarter. Even with 60 seconds and 1 timeout, that was a pretty tall order. Bradshaw may have "accidentally scored", but he also could have been the reason his team won the Super Bowl if a botched snap, blocked kick, or completely shanked ball had occurred. Could you imagine if the Giants had kneeled the ball twice on the 1 yard line, then kicked the field goal off the uprights? The chastizing for not taking the TD would have been never ending.[/QUOTE]

There is a good article on Grantland right now talking about the percentages and how kneeling was the absolute correct call. Pretty interesting stuff - especially if you are a nerd like me:

[quote name='GRANTLAND']Win Probability charts aren't perfect because they don't adjust for the teams involved, but they're the best tool for answering a question like this. Here, the Giants-Patriots WP chart on advancednflstats.com notes that the Giants had an 89 percent chance of winning the game when Hakeem Nicks picked up a first down on the New England 7-yard line with 1:09 left. From there, the Giants could have chosen to kneel three times, force the Patriots to use their final timeout, and then attempt a game-winning field goal with seconds on the clock without ever giving the ball back to the Patriots. The model might even be underestimating their chances; history suggests that an average field goal kicker will convert a 24-yard field goal about 96 percent of the time, and the Giants were playing on turf with the options to both move the ball onto Lawrence Tynes' desired hash mark while falling on the ball and trying again in the case of a bad snap. And if you think Tynes is a terrible kicker, note that he's 56-of-57 on kicks from 20 to 29 yards during his career.

Instead, when Bradshaw scored the most mournful game-winning Super Bowl touchdown in history, the Win Probability analysis suggests that the Giants' odds of winning decreased to 85 percent. That's right: Bill Belichick was likely correct to allow the Giants to score, and the Giants should have taken a knee and decided to kick the chip shot field goal instead.3 If you use the 96 percent win expectancy that we're suggesting instead of the model's 89 percent, it's patently obvious that the Giants should have kneeled and kicked.[/QUOTE]
 
It was the right call, and Bradshaw's showmanship got the better of him. In either situation, the Patriots are down, but in one situation you have a lot more time left.

Overall, not a very good Super Bowl. Pretty boring, to be honest. It might've been because I was half asleep because I picked up that horrible stomach virus on Thursday and have been sick since (the first 48 hours were BRUTAL, btw), but it just wasn't very engaging. It was slow, inconsistent and downright sloppy. Hell, the crowd wasn't very into it, either.

3 keys of the game:
#1 - The Safety at the beginning; REALLY weak penalty. It set a tone of 'we're going to call everything' which was proceeded by 'we're not going to call anything.' Several penalties you saw later in the game happened earlier in the game that weren't called (the choke-hold holdings, mostly).

#2 - Brady's interception. It was 2nd down I think. No need to throw a lame duck like a rookie.

#3 - Welker's Drop. Simple.
 
Brady's interception was on first down. You make it sound like the Pats blew it when they actually played pretty good. The Giants just made a couple more plays and had the ball bounce their way on those two fumble recoveries. If the Hail Mary was caught on the last play everyone would be talking about how awesome the Pats and Brady are when the game would have been essentially exactly the same. I am so pumped that the Giants won but damn that was a lot closer than I had hoped...

Also, one of the things no one is talking about was how sick of a game Weatherford had. He was ridiculously good.
 
[quote name='Javery']Brady's interception was on first down. You make it sound like the Pats blew it when they actually played pretty good. The Giants just made a couple more plays and had the ball bounce their way on those two fumble recoveries. If the Hail Mary was caught on the last play everyone would be talking about how awesome the Pats and Brady are when the game would have been essentially exactly the same. I am so pumped that the Giants won but damn that was a lot closer than I had hoped...

Also, one of the things no one is talking about was how sick of a game Weatherford had. He was ridiculously good.[/QUOTE]

Weatherford repeatedly pinned the patriots inside the 10. With the exception of the one touchback he had a perfect night. It looks like we found Feagles' replacement.
 
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Hahahahahahahaha......

[quote name='Gisele']"You've to catch the ball when you're supposed to catch the ball. My husband cannot fucking throw the ball and catch the ball at the same time. I can't believe they dropped the ball so many times."[/QUOTE]
 
The Brady INT was huge. He under threw the ball, knowing he was throwing to a hobbled Gronk. AND he had Hernandez wide open... Stupid.

Also, Leo's leftovers can blame the WRs all she wants, Brady's throws the last two drives were not very accurate. Many thrown behind.
 
It was a boring game. I didn't really have a dog in this fight, but roughly at the start of the 4th I started to side with the Giants, just because the pats blew a really solid gameplan. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of the Giants' conservatism on offense or their relatively unimaginative defense, but at least they did what they came to do.

The Pats had the better gameplan on both sides, and had the Pats played the game they prepared for, they would've won it easily. They clearly had an answer for everything the Giants tried. They had the QB protection to spot LBs on receivers. They took Cruz out and limited the big gains (until there at the end). It's gotta be embarrassing for them to know they scouted the Giants spot-on, had good calls in there, and came up short because of stupid mistakes.

To Broly and Vega, calling out Brady on the INT, I disagree on that: he saw a DE/OLB (93) way downfield in single coverage and tried to exploit it. On any other day, that would have been 87's ball, you just get it as close as you can and watch that crazy fucker grab it and go. But 87 was gimpy and useless. Maybe Brady should've considered that, but instinct probably took over and brady pissed himself at the sight of that mismatch.

Anyhow, the story of the game IMO is how the pats failed in spite of executing the critical parts of their gameplan. It was their game. Punks.
 
Everything about that rant is perfect. Her unbelievable level of hotness. The fact that she just couldn't keep quiet. Her accent. The fact that she let the fans get to her. So great.
 
[quote name='dothog']It was a boring game. I didn't really have a dog in this fight, but roughly at the start of the 4th I started to side with the Giants, just because the pats blew a really solid gameplan. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of the Giants' conservatism on offense or their relatively unimaginative defense, but at least they did what they came to do.

The Pats had the better gameplan on both sides, and had the Pats played the game they prepared for, they would've won it easily. They clearly had an answer for everything the Giants tried. They had the QB protection to spot LBs on receivers. They took Cruz out and limited the big gains (until there at the end). It's gotta be embarrassing for them to know they scouted the Giants spot-on, had good calls in there, and came up short because of stupid mistakes.

To Broly and Vega, calling out Brady on the INT, I disagree on that: he saw a DE/OLB (93) way downfield in single coverage and tried to exploit it. On any other day, that would have been 87's ball, you just get it as close as you can and watch that crazy fucker grab it and go. But 87 was gimpy and useless. Maybe Brady should've considered that, but instinct probably took over and brady pissed himself at the sight of that mismatch.

Anyhow, the story of the game IMO is how the pats failed in spite of executing the critical parts of their gameplan. It was their game. Punks.[/QUOTE]

I think the Brady interception was college-level at best. On first down makes it a lot worse than on second down, too.Throw it out bounds and you have 2 more shots to get a first. Either way, you're taking Eli Manning off the field for at least another minute.
 
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