Official 2011-2012 NBA Season thread

[quote name='soulvengeance']The Knicks might as well trade away Stat at this point, he's never going to work right in the Melo-Iso offense.[/QUOTE]

He's also lost at least a step. I agree, if they can find a taker, he should be dealt ASAP. In all seriousness, I'd try to move him and/or Carmelo and whatever else for Dwight. There's no way in hell I do this trade if I'm Orlando, but what the hey:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7nwldg2

As to your Gasol question, of course he's better than Boozer. Gasol is the most skilled big man outside of Nowitzki, and he's much better on D than Boozer.

[quote name='Soodmeg']Pfft. Mike system was shit and it was never going to work with the roster they have. You have 2 ball hawking players and you want th to give up everything they do right, everything that got them to the MBA and stand in the wings like they kyle kover. You have to adapt your god damn system to your roster and he refused. Watching that system was painful.[/QUOTE]

D'Antoni's system isn't perfect, but Melo shouldn't be a high volume player. He's hardly above average when you measure efficiency.
 
[quote name='soulvengeance']Wait, what? Most successful teams I've seen, the players need to adapt to the system, not the other way around. Phil Jackson brought the triangle to LA, and the team adapted and won multiple championships. Not saying that D'Antoni's system would have brought them a title, but why is it on him and not on Melo?[/QUOTE]

The difference is the fact that the pegs that la had worked in his system. They got the right players to make his system work, this is the opposite of the Knicks who grabbed two ball hawking players that drive to the basket and you want them to run a system in which they stand on the wing.

You have to adapt the system you have to fit the players you have or at the very least get the players that fit in your system. Mike neither had the balls to make the Knicks get the players he wanted or smart enough to adapt it to modern times.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']The difference is the fact that the pegs that la had worked in his system. They got the right players to make his system work, this is the opposite of the Knicks who grabbed two ball hawking players that drive to the basket and you want them to run a system in which they stand on the wing.

You have to adapt the system you have to fit the players you have or at the very least get the players that fit in your system. Mike neither had the balls to make the Knicks get the players he wanted or smart enough to adapt it to modern times.[/QUOTE]

I think he had the players he wanted, but ownership/Isiah Thomas overruled him to get Melo. I really don't understand why Melo can't adapt, except for the fact he just doesn't want to. I'll agree that the players they have are a poor fit for the system he ran.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']He's also lost at least a step. I agree, if they can find a taker, he should be dealt ASAP. In all seriousness, I'd try to move him and/or Carmelo and whatever else for Dwight. There's no way in hell I do this trade if I'm Orlando, but what the hey:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7nwldg2

As to your Gasol question, of course he's better than Boozer. Gasol is the most skilled big man outside of Nowitzki, and he's much better on D than Boozer.

[/QUOTE]

He is, but his head isn't always in the game. Plus he's due a lot more money then Boozer is making next year, so I'm not entirely sold on giving up a whole lot for him.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7688201/sources-dwight-howard-not-give-option-season-end

And back and forth it goes. Now Howard is refusing to surrender his option to opt out of the deal this summer. Apparently he "didn't understand the ramifications" of doing so when he told teammates he wasn't going to opt out.

But he's telling the team his first choice is to remain in Orlando.

He just needs to shit or get off the pot.[/QUOTE]

I think he's just playing the Magic for idiots, and so far, it's working. Just trade him already.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7688201/sources-dwight-howard-not-give-option-season-end

And back and forth it goes. Now Howard is refusing to surrender his option to opt out of the deal this summer. Apparently he "didn't understand the ramifications" of doing so when he told teammates he wasn't going to opt out.

But he's telling the team his first choice is to remain in Orlando.

He just needs to shit or get off the pot.[/QUOTE]

Would you trade Dwight, Hedo, and Redick for Melo and Stoudemire?
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']Would you trade Dwight, Hedo, and Redick for Melo and Stoudemire?[/QUOTE]
Hell no. Howard will not be moved. My guess he walks. I just hope the Magic don't forget about Ryan Anderson when it all goes down in FA.

[quote name='pitfallharry219']Mike D'Antoni has resigned. [/QUOTE]
In other news, Jeremy Lin goes back to being unknown.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']Would you trade Dwight, Hedo, and Redick for Melo and Stoudemire?[/QUOTE]

I'd like to keep Redick. Sub in someone like Orton, Clark or Harper for him and I'd consider it.

I'd still just go with sending him to the Nets for Lopez, their first rounder (will be a lottery pick this year) and whatever else though. Maybe they'd luck out and get the top pick and be able to get the center from Kentucky.

If he won't commit, they've got to pull the trigger. Can't just let him walk like they did with Shaq. If he won't commit to at least not exercising his option this year, trade him and start over.

Edit: Looks like the Magic are aggressively trying to pull a trade, with the Nets being the likely team. Rockets also in the mix apparently.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...lug=aw-wojnarowski_dwight_howard_magic_031412
 
I think the magic played themselves as idiots. They have mismanaged this through and through. As a team you have to stop letting him dictate everything to you. Ask him point blank if he is going to sign. If not suck it up and trade him. The magic have let this go on far to long.

God damniPhone auto correct.
 
Also so what is everyone saying now that the Knicks won by 20 tonight? Looked like ISP melo with stat pick and roll worked fined.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Also so what is everyone saying now that the Knicks won by 20 tonight? Looked like ISP melo with stat pick and roll worked fined.[/QUOTE]

One game and they made a ton of 3's. We'll see if that holds throughout the rest of the season.:)
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Also so what is everyone saying now that the Knicks won by 20 tonight? Looked like ISP melo with stat pick and roll worked fined.[/QUOTE]

Because one game makes a season. :roll:
 
[quote name='advanced']Because one game makes a season. :roll:[/QUOTE]

O fuckING REALLY!?!?!?

Because 7 games in a shortened lockout 66 game season sure proved that Lin was the second coming and the Knicks where starting their dynasty. :roll:


Cant have it both ways there partner....you cant both believe that the handful of games Lin played was gospel yet roll your eyes at a equally dumbass sample size.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Also so what is everyone saying now that the Knicks won by 20 tonight? Looked like ISP melo with stat pick and roll worked fined.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='soulvengeance']One game and they made a ton of 3's. We'll see if that holds throughout the rest of the season.:)[/QUOTE]

[quote name='advanced']Because one game makes a season. :roll:[/QUOTE]

I mean...seriously? Also, it's one game against an awful road team. The Knicks always have these games here or there, where they hit a ton of 3's (19 tonight), and they look like world beaters. Next time, they will score 85 points...
 
Did you just completely miss my post. You fucks just did the same thing during the Lin Dynasty. They beat a bunch of bad teams (with maybe 1 decent) yet back then they were locked in as being champions.


You guys are god awful, just making up rules as you go, flip flopping more than the shoe of the same name. I dont even care about the knicks but I hope they go on a 10 game winning streak just so that you dolts have to swallow your crow.

Anyway, I do what to say this. What is the deal with sports teams in which they always look in the wayback machine for the future of a franchise. Mikey D leaves and the first thing that comes up is...they should get Phil Jackson....man let stay retired. I dont get when sports teams make such knee jerk reactions (although I think this is strictly media generated) yes, Jackson is the greatest coach of all time but if he wanted to coach he would approach you.
 
Now here is a good read, saying exactly what I have been saying. Mikey D was just a stubborn ass who was basically breaking the Knicks because he didnt want to adapt his system.





Back in 2008, when Mike D'Antoni first arrived, one of the first things he tried to convince New Yorkers was that he could make Knicks center Eddy Curry actually run up and down the court.


Seriously!


The Twinkies didn't matter, nor did the cheeseburgers. Neither did Curry's rotund figure, suspect work ethic and preference for slow-down, methodical ball. In the world of Coach D'Antoni, nothing would suffice unless it was done his way. Anything else was perceived as too confrontational.
D'Antoni's coaching acumen should not be in question; the man went 267-172 in his previous coaching stint.

His stubbornness, however, is an entirely different matter.
So the result was inevitable: D'Antoni's resignation as coach of the reeling New York Knicks on Wednesday afternoon.


"He clearly felt it was best for the organization if he were not to continue as coach of the team," Knicks owner James Dolan said of D'Antoni at a news conference. "He did offer to stay. After a long discussion, we did agree it was best for the organization to have a new voice moving forward."


I'm wondering why a "long discussion" was necessary. Carmelo Anthony swore until the end he was standing by his coach "100 percent." Ask Amare Stoudemire the same question, and you'd get the same answer. But I doubt either felt that way. They couldn't because D'Antoni wouldn't allow them to.


D'Antoni's insatiable appetite for small ball was so addictive, he felt no compunction about minimizing the impact of two stars owed more than $168 million combined in favor of a point guard making less than $1 million. In favor of a system that allowed unknowns to jack up one 3-pointer after another, barely running an offense in the process.


D'Antoni never believed Jeremy Lin shooting the ball more than Stoudemire was a problem. He never fathomed how insulting it was to Anthony for Lin to literally turn away from the Knicks' $85 million forward, refusing at times to give him the ball.


"In Coach's system, the point guard is the man," one Knicks player told me. "He runs the show. So long as Coach is happy with him, the point guard can do whatever the hell he wants, when he wants, to whomever he wants, including the stars. Even if the dude was just in the D-League around Christmas time."



No wonder D'Antoni is gone.
Contrary to popular belief, acrimony is not what plagued Melo's relationship with D'Antoni or caused Stoudemire's growing frustration. No one disliked D'Antoni. No one thought he was a bad person. It's just that seemingly everyone outside of Lin, Tyson Chandler and possibly Baron Davis thought D'Antoni's system was an exercise in futility.


The D'Antoni detractors felt the Knicks' defense was porous at times not because they couldn't play it, but because they jacked up shots too quickly, too unexpectedly, preventing their defense from getting back and getting set. Then there was Melo being forced to play the point when he didn't want to. Stoudemire being forced to accept the role as a third wheel -- forced to watch Melo head to All-Star weekend while he sat home with everyone questioning whether he'd lost his skills -- was particularly piercing to the Knicks' $100 million power forward.


Neither star will say anything about it, of course. It wouldn't get them anywhere in a town constantly in search of villains. But their feelings were real. And if anyone noticed it, Dolan did.


"I believe in our players," Dolan said Wednesday. "I believe in our talent. I believe in their commitment to get the team together and get this right. I believe we have the talent and character to succeed."


Which is another way of saying D'Antoni never believed it. Primarily because he didn't want to believe it. Why? Because believing in his players the way Dolan swears he does would mean having to modify a system D'Antoni has never shown the slightest desire to modify.
That is why he is gone now.


The Knicks didn't need to romp the Blazers at Madison Square Garden on Wednesday night to reveal their level of joy. Real players know, if nothing else, what does not contribute to winning on the NBA level.
Jacking up quick shots is one of them. Playing little-to-no defense is another. And forgetting to pacify stars will help you lose every time.
D'Antoni failed on all three counts.
Click to expand...
 
One last thing...if point guard play was so god damn vital to Mikey Ds system why didnt they keep Billups? Or are actually trying to prove that Lin is somehow better than chauncey billups?

Its mind boggling how stupid Mikey D is and was about this whole thing. You claim that your system needs a PG yet you allow them to push Billups out the door and then trying to replace him with a fucking SG in Tony Douglas. Have you ever looked at PG roster? Mike Bibby, Lin, Davis, Shumpert, Douglas.....without Lin all of these guys would combine for about 5 asst a game. You went from a floor general to a guy who charges at the basketball and throws up shots like a mad man. Look no further than that Nets game when Williams said he was looking to go after Lin...I like the guy but he isnt that good and to base your entire offense around a guy who just came in off the street while ignoring 2 top10(15) players is retarded.

Its pathetic how bad the team is made up for that system yet he continued to force it down their throats. It was good that he quit because he was going to get fired anyway and I wish him luck in finding another 2 time MVP HOF PG to never win a championship with.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Did you just completely miss my post. You fucks just did the same thing during the Lin Dynasty. They beat a bunch of bad teams (with maybe 1 decent) yet back then they were locked in as being champions.


You guys are god awful, just making up rules as you go, flip flopping more than the shoe of the same name. I dont even care about the knicks but I hope they go on a 10 game winning streak just so that you dolts have to swallow your crow.

Anyway, I do what to say this. What is the deal with sports teams in which they always look in the wayback machine for the future of a franchise. Mikey D leaves and the first thing that comes up is...they should get Phil Jackson....man let stay retired. I dont get when sports teams make such knee jerk reactions (although I think this is strictly media generated) yes, Jackson is the greatest coach of all time but if he wanted to coach he would approach you.[/QUOTE]

Welcome to Knicks fan philosophy 101 LOL
 
[quote name='antlp89']Looks like Dwight will stay for one more year.

Or will he change his mind? (again) :whistle2:s
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, just crazy how he's going back and forth.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/219758/Dwight_Howard_Admits_Mistakes_Plans_To_Opt_In

"Man, listen, you know my heart, my soul and everything I have is in Orlando," Howard told RealGM. "I just can't leave it behind."

"I have gotten some bad advice," Howard said. "I apologize for this circus I have caused to the fans of our city. They didn't deserve none of this. I'm sorry from the bottom of my heart. I will do whatever I can to make this right and do what I was put in Orlando to do."

"This has been a very hard time," Howard said. "For me, my family and all of us. The fans deserve a better hero and I will make that happen. I love and appreciate my fans and this city."

Howard said that he plans on signing the ETO waiver first thing on Thursday morning. He also plans on making some internal changes to ensure this situation isn't repeated in the future.
Click to expand...

Apparently he was ready to sign last night, but the Magic told him to sleep on it.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...ld_Howard_To_Sleep_On_Decision_Before_Signing
 
He just has 20 people pulling him 20 different ways. Agents, team owners, sponsors, family, friends etc and just can't handle it. I don't know why he would ever leave Orlando. He keeps saying he wants to be somewhere warm, with nice weather, be the number one, and have more control than most players do. He was constantly describing the situation he was already in but just couldn't see it.
 
Yeah, I have a feeling his agent was pulling him the wrong way.

But it also sounds like waiving the opt out isn't ideal either as then the Magic can only offer him a 3 year extension, and not a 5 year max deal. So hopefully whatever he signs (if he signs it) has a provision that he can opt out this summer, but only to resign a long-term deal with the Magic.

Gives them a chance to land another big name this summer and entice him to stay long term. And if they fail and he's not happy, he can play one more year and walk or get traded.
 
Ya, from some reason I feel that Howard isnt being a typically douche star...I kinda feel bad for the guy because its clear they he personally wants to leave but everyone on the planet is talking in his ear.

I mean, you wonder why athletes are so selfish...this is a prime example. The guys mom is even trying to get him to stay....which is completely wrong...should just support what he wants not guilt him into staying.

His problem was he wasnt trying to be a dick but he is going to wind up looking like one anyway....he should have just left without saying anything to anyone.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Did you just completely miss my post. You fucks just did the same thing during the Lin Dynasty. They beat a bunch of bad teams (with maybe 1 decent) yet back then they were locked in as being champions.


You guys are god awful, just making up rules as you go, flip flopping more than the shoe of the same name. I dont even care about the knicks but I hope they go on a 10 game winning streak just so that you dolts have to swallow your crow.[/QUOTE]

Please find the post where I said the Knicks were gonna win a championship, because of Lin. Don't hold your breath while you do. People got excited about Lin, because he was a great story. An undrafted player from Harvard that happened to be Asian. That was everyone, not just Knick fans. Knick fans got excited, because they were actually winning games, something Melo and Stat weren't doing.

[quote name='Soodmeg']One last thing...if point guard play was so god damn vital to Mikey Ds system why didnt they keep Billups? Or are actually trying to prove that Lin is somehow better than chauncey billups?[/QUOTE]

Not even sure what Lin has to do Billups. Lin was a complete after thought, an injury replacement.

I like the guy but he isnt that good and to base your entire offense around a guy who just came in off the street while ignoring 2 top10(15) players is retarded.
Click to expand...
I'd love to know what alternate reality you live in where Melo or Stat is a top 10 player. I'd love to go there, because the Knicks would actually have a winning record then. Kobe, Rose, Lebron, Dirk, Wade, Durant, Westbrook, Gasol, Love, Paul, Deron Williams, Howard, Griffin...yeah, Melo and Stat are top 10 players. The Knicks were awful before Lin started playing. They actually, you know, won some games when he did. That's why the offense ran through him.
 
The Howard saga is over....for now.

He's signed the waiver of his opt out option, and holding a press conference now. So he's staying in Orlando for at least 1 more year.
 
Glad Howard is staying, too bad Magic wont do anything in this extra season to support him with the tools to get back to the finals. He'll end up leaving anyway :lol:
 
They made a push to get Monta Ellis, Warriors just didn't want any of the players they offered. So I think they'll make some move.

Obviously the biggest push will be trying to find a way to get Deron Williams this summer. But that's probably a long shot.

They need to get a scorer at the 1 or 2 guard slot, and a better back up center. Do that without losing key pieces like Anderson and Redick and they'd be a strong title contender.
 
Get the hell out of here Bruce...I cant even talk to you man because its clear you just hate melo and stat for whatever reason. Honestly, I dont know 2 guys how have garnished as much hate for no apparent reason then melo and stat.

Do you use sportcenter highlights to base your opinion on? Griffin is a top 10 player? Are you fucking serious? Westbrook? $$$$a please. The top ten should be filled with players who can take over a game and win it. At one point Melo lead the league in game winning shots and points less than 2 minute left in the 4th. I love Griffin but he cant catch 10 oops in a row to close out a game.

Now I normally dont even like debating these dumb water cooler my superstar is better than your superstar topics but your list is laughable. Other than super obvious choices like Kobe your list is who I would draft in a video game. Westbrook, Gasol, Griffin, shouldnt even be on there. How is Westbrook magically better than lets say...uhh Tony Parker who only averages like 5 points less but has more asst and whats this as 3 god damn championship rings and a finals MVP. There are like 8 other PF/C that average more points and rebounds than Gasol...hell Greg Monroe has the exact same stats as Gasol...Kris Humphries averages more rebounds than Gasol. LaMarcus Aldridge scores more points than Griffin has 3 less rebounds but doesnt have one of the greatest PG of our generation throwing him oops all day.

I could go on but there is no point...you clearly dont actually follow the NBA outside of water cooler topics. Melo hasnt even played that much this season and when he has he hasnt been that good and he still is 13th overall in scoring. What was your basis for these people?


What Billups has to do with Mikey D PG dominate system? Are you serious? Do you even know what you are talking about at this point. If a PG was so important to Mikey D system then why did you force one the the leagues best veteran guards out of the door? You already had a fantastic floor general on the team, not only did you still not do anything you kicked him out. So you must be saying that Lin is somehow a better fit than Billups.


Also, again, I want to say that I am not a fan of any basketball team and I am certainly not a fan of the Knicks....I just dont get this strange...kneejerk everything is Melo and Stats fault when its clearly not. Oh but look at how much better Denver is doing...duurrrr. How many championships have they won since melo left? How many times have they gone deep into the playoffs? Are they leading the west in the standings? Let me help you...no...no...no...no...and no. So much better at the 7th spot barely over .500
 
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I could go on but there is no point...you clearly dont actually follow the NBA outside of water cooler topics. Melo hasnt even played that much this season and when he has he hasnt been that good and he still is 13th overall in scoring. What was your basis for these people?
Click to expand...
Anyone can take a lot of shots and have a high PPG. For someone that claims to be impartial you sure are leaning hardcore on Anthony. Blake Griffin takes 2 less shots per game, averages 6 more boards per game, and the same amount of assists per game as Melo. If you honestly think that Blake Griffin isn't better at this point than Melo you're nuts. And LaMarcus Aldridge scores .3!PPG more than griffin with an extra shot per game, now you're just being a stat whore.
 
Cleveland sends Ramon Sessions to the Lakers for a 2012 first-round pick. I guess hoping for another Clippers-like trade was expecting too much, but it's a nice move for a team that wants picks to keep adding talent to the roster. I'm wondering if anybody will be taking Antawn Jamison off of their hands and cap off the trading deadlines for the Cavs.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Get the hell out of here Bruce...I cant even talk to you man because its clear you just hate melo and stat for whatever reason. Honestly, I dont know 2 guys how have garnished as much hate for no apparent reason then melo and stat.

Do you use sportcenter highlights to base your opinion on? Griffin is a top 10 player? Are you fucking serious? Westbrook? $$$$a please. The top ten should be filled with players who can take over a game and win it. At one point Melo lead the league in game winning shots and points less than 2 minute left in the 4th. I love Griffin but he cant catch 10 oops in a row to close out a game.

Now I normally dont even like debating these dumb water cooler my superstar is better than your superstar topics but your list is laughable. Other than super obvious choices like Kobe your list is who I would draft in a video game. Westbrook, Gasol, Griffin, shouldnt even be on there. How is Westbrook magically better than lets say...uhh Tony Parker who only averages like 5 points less but has more asst and whats this as 3 god damn championship rings and a finals MVP. There are like 8 other PF/C that average more points and rebounds than Gasol...hell Greg Monroe has the exact same stats as Gasol...Kris Humphries averages more rebounds than Gasol. LaMarcus Aldridge scores more points than Griffin has 3 less rebounds but doesnt have one of the greatest PG of our generation throwing him oops all day.

I could go on but there is no point...you clearly dont actually follow the NBA outside of water cooler topics. Melo hasnt even played that much this season and when he has he hasnt been that good and he still is 13th overall in scoring. What was your basis for these people?


What Billups has to do with Mikey D PG dominate system? Are you serious? Do you even know what you are talking about at this point. If a PG was so important to Mikey D system then why did you force one the the leagues best veteran guards out of the door? You already had a fantastic floor general on the team, not only did you still not do anything you kicked him out. So you must be saying that Lin is somehow a better fit than Billups.


Also, again, I want to say that I am not a fan of any basketball team and I am certainly not a fan of the Knicks....I just dont get this strange...kneejerk everything is Melo and Stats fault when its clearly not. Oh but look at how much better Denver is doing...duurrrr. How many championships have they won since melo left? How many times have they gone deep into the playoffs? Are they leading the west in the standings? Let me help you...no...no...no...no...and no. So much better at the 7th spot barely over .500[/QUOTE]

Dude, you are literally out of your mind. I'll agree that Griffin isn't top 10 material though, although there is no way Stat is top ten either, might not even be top 20 or 30 at this point. The reason Billups was tossed was because they needed to bring in a defender, which I thought was stupid too, and they ended up missing him dearly until Lin came along. While Denver is barely over .500, New York got significantly worse when Carmelo came back from injury, and weren't doing all that great when he wasn't hurt. Denver is starting to do better now that Gallinari is back. That's true that Denver hasn't won any championships since Melo left, but I can guarantee that while New York keeps Melo, they'll never come close to winning anything either. They'll be lucky to make the playoffs.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']Anyone can take a lot of shots and have a high PPG. For someone that claims to be impartial you sure are leaning hardcore on Anthony. Blake Griffin takes 2 less shots per game, averages 6 more boards per game, and the same amount of assists per game as Melo. If you honestly think that Blake Griffin isn't better at this point than Melo you're nuts. And LaMarcus Aldridge scores .3!PPG more than griffin with an extra shot per game, now you're just being a stat whore.[/QUOTE]


:roll: Again this is why I hate debating topics like this...you guys just want to have a bitch party about Melo. I am not leaning heavily on him....I just hate the dumbass fan mentality where they seemingly just pick a person as a scapegoat even though there is nothing proving they are going against the grain. I dont actually care if he top 10 or 15...that topic is a endless mind drain that rookie radio DJs use to fill time because there is no answer.

And it always turns into this...."well stats dont matter....uhhh standing dont matter....uhhh coaching style doesnt matter.....play style doesnt matter." Its just a count down to how many things you can discredit to make your point sound right.

Yes...Aldridge score just .3 more...so how is Griffin in the top 10 of NBA players yet Aldridge is no where near? Its like trading cards with you people in which you just look at the name and form an opinion. You guys have said nothing that would be prove that Melo or Stat is the root of the problem and you ignore anything that would help their case.

Fact: Mikey D's system doesnt have any defense.
Fact: NY signed 2 players they also dont have defensive traits.
Fact: Kinda hard to win when you dont play defense
Fact: Mikey D's System needs a stellar PG
Fact: NY cut Billups one of the leagues best floor generals (with stellar defense)
Fact: You have very subpar PGs in a apparently PG heavy system with Bibby, Douglas (2 year player that doesnt really play PG well), Lin (might as well be a rookie), Davis, Shumpert (Rookie)
Fact: Melo is a Elbow to box player with talents on iso scoring via driving
Fact: Mikey D want him to stay at the wings and shoot spot jumpers
Fact: Stat is a pick and roll/pop PF that needs a PG who can run an offense.
Fact: As I said...you dont have that and you got rid of the guy who was exactly that.


Yeah....everything sure sound like Melos fault. It would be like saying to D.Howard....uhhh yeah we know that you are a low post player but we really want you to start hanging out by the 3 point line. You know be more like Kevin Love. Then blaming him when it doesnt work. Mikey D didnt even come close to using these guys to their strength...he basically told them to change everything about their game and defer to a PG who just walked in off the street. Melo is clearly the best on the team why the hell would he defer to Lin? If Bron did this people would eat him alive...hell Bron cant even defer to Wade (another superstar) without getting ripped apart yet you want Melo to defer to fucking Lin?


I dont like or care about Anthony but I hate stupid ass fan scapegoating where you ignore all facts and stats just so you can hate on one guy. I dont really care if he is a top 10 player or not but clearly there more things going on than "duuururrr Melos overrated thats why...duur." Great in depth analyst there, try watching more than 2 or 3 of your favorite teams games and read more than just ESPN articles and highlight reels.
 
[quote name='soulvengeance']Dude, you are literally out of your mind. I'll agree that Griffin isn't top 10 material though, although there is no way Stat is top ten either, might not even be top 20 or 30 at this point. The reason Billups was tossed was because they needed to bring in a defender, which I thought was stupid too, and they ended up missing him dearly until Lin came along. While Denver is barely over .500, New York got significantly worse when Carmelo came back from injury, and weren't doing all that great when he wasn't hurt. Denver is starting to do better now that Gallinari is back. That's true that Denver hasn't won any championships since Melo left, but I can guarantee that while New York keeps Melo, they'll never come close to winning anything either. They'll be lucky to make the playoffs.[/QUOTE]

Lucky for the Knicks they play in the eastern conference so 5 games below .500 will get them in the playoffs. As a Knicks fan I think we make the playoffs and maybe even make some noise. It is worth noting that your average fan equates winning in the regular season with playoff success but this is often not the case. As proved by Memphis last year and GSW a couple of years back. Winning in the playoffs is based more on matchups and getting hot at the right time.

I do agree with you that Melo and Stat are not playing like Top 10 players this year but career wise Melo is definitely a top 10 player. Stat probably Top15 definitely Top20.
 
I never said what happened in New York is Melo's fault, I never really addressed New York at all. I just don't think Melo is nearly as good as he was in past years, and this year it is really showing. New York has way more problems than whether or not Melo is hogging the ball or how well of a season he is doing.
 
[quote name='kill3r7']Lucky for the Knicks they play in the eastern conference so 5 games below .500 will get them in the playoffs. As a Knicks fan I think we make the playoffs and maybe even make some noise. It is worth noting that your average fan equates winning in the regular season with playoff success but this is often not the case. As proved by Memphis last year and GSW a couple of years back. Winning in the playoffs is based more on matchups and getting hot at the right time.

I do agree with you that Melo and Stat are not playing like Top 10 players this year but career wise Melo is definitely a top 10 player. Stat probably Top15 definitely Top20.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I would still leave Melo in the top 10-15. Stat? Nah. We'll see if you guys can pull it together. Looks like the Bulls didn't make any trades, so they're going to run with what they have.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']I never said what happened in New York is Melo's fault, I never really addressed New York at all. I just don't think Melo is nearly as good as he was in past years, and this year it is really showing. New York has way more problems than whether or not Melo is hogging the ball or how well of a season he is doing.[/QUOTE]


Yea, understand I am talking to like 5 people at once.....I am speaking in generals buddy although I probably should clarify more.. :lol:

All I am saying that is probably a little more than just Melo...yet a lot of people seem to just dump it all on him. From what I read melo didnt want to play point forward and was very happy when Lin came along so he didnt have to. He seemed to be in full support of at least trying to adapt to the system.

I think a lot of people just had no idea what to do on the court because the system didnt fit anything close to what they had. Melo isnt Ray Allen he cant just stand at the wings waiting to shot a 3, Stat is a pick and roll/pop player which means he has to be setting screens and moving around.

Its so odd because basically Mikey D said...everyone new gameplan...stand around and watch Lin like he is Michael Jordan. Lin had all the freedom to charge into the lane like a madman then try to bail himself out with a pass or a shot. The guy was a turnover machine and had to be a plus 10 in blocks for the other team. How they won any games was mind boggling but you had to have known people were going to catch on. I severally doubt that if Melo and Stat were sill out they would be winning any games because that wasnt going to work past the handful of games that were surprised for. Although I like Lin he is no Steve Nash, he cant make the key passes in the rest positions yet to give him full reign of the entire offense.
 
Yeah this trade deadline hype was crap....no real trades were done that I know off. Most were very meh. The sessions trade is nice but does it really put the Lakers past OKC or the Spurs? Hell CP3 pretty much makes the trade moot if they face the clippers at any point.

Meh meh and more meh.

Wallace who I think is one of the most underrated players in NBA history goes to the nets but....meh.


EDIT:
What a second....I think Nene was traded. Nene is legit but maybe the change of scenary is good for McGee who, if he wasnt such a dumbass, could be a borderline all star at one point for his defense.

Wizards get:
• F/C Nene
• F Brian Cook
• Future second-round pick
Clippers get:
• G Nick Young
Nuggets get:
• C JaVale McGee
• F/C Ronny Turiaf


Good for the wizard to break up the worst core of people of all time. Sucks for Nene who has to go to such a crap team, Clippers get a little more firepower if Young can stop air balling layups.
 
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[quote name='Soodmeg']Yeah this trade deadline hype was crap....no real trades were done that I know off. Most were very meh. The sessions trade is nice but does it really put the Lakers past OKC or the Spurs? Hell CP3 pretty much makes the trade moot if they face the clippers at any point.

Meh meh and more meh.

Wallace who I think is one of the most underrated players in NBA history goes to the nets but....meh.[/QUOTE]

Nene for McGee was a surprise but overall I agree with you.
 
Lakers get:
Ramon Sessions
Christian Eyenga

Cavs get:
Luke Walton
Jason Kapono
2012 1st Round draft pick (conditional if LA makes playoffs)

Lakers also sent longtime PG Derek Fisher to Houston for Jordan Hill.
 
lol @ denver getting javale about as funny as someone thinking blake fucking griffin is better than Melo, people are way to high these days.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']O fuckING REALLY!?!?!?

Because 7 games in a shortened lockout 66 game season sure proved that Lin was the second coming and the Knicks where starting their dynasty. :roll:


Cant have it both ways there partner....you cant both believe that the handful of games Lin played was gospel yet roll your eyes at a equally dumbass sample size.[/QUOTE]

Don't believe I ever did, "partner". If I ever said anything about Lin it was that I was happy picking him up after his second big game in fantasy. That's probably it. You need to look at and realize who you're talking at. I've been skeptical of the Knicks since they got Melo knowing he didn't fit Pringles' style. Now he's gone, and they have some interesting pieces, and I still don't think they'll do much.

You also later mentioned getting rid of Billups and stuff. They did that because the front office didn't give a shit about D'Antoni's system, they wanted Chandler on their team. The whole Knicks organization for the past 10-13 years has been absolutely atrocious and its plain to see and that one act proved it. The head coach had a system that he was going to push and push and push. The front office then went out and got a piece that doesn't fit [Melo] (who came with a fitting piece [Billups]) and then cut the fitting piece to go get a defensive first center [Chandler] (for a system with no defense) to push the successful starting 5 [Amare] to the starting 4 and he begins to look old due to chasing around younger 4's.
 
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[quote name='Soodmeg']O fuckING REALLY!?!?!?

Because 7 games in a shortened lockout 66 game season sure proved that Lin was the second coming and the Knicks where starting their dynasty. :roll:


Cant have it both ways there partner....you cant both believe that the handful of games Lin played was gospel yet roll your eyes at a equally dumbass sample size.[/QUOTE]
Are you really trying to debate that... In case you weren't aware, the day after NY... Nate McMillian (coach of those wonderful trailblazers) was fired. Veterans shipped out i.e. Gerald Wallace and Marcus Camby. Oden finally cut. So it leaves Aldridge and ???? I didn't realize 20-23 made you a good team.

I could go on but there is no point...you clearly dont actually follow the NBA outside of water cooler topics. Melo hasnt even played that much this season and when he has he hasnt been that good and he still is 13th overall in scoring. What was your basis for these people?
Click to expand...
And he still gets burned on defense... By your logic (in that rant), 40+ players at the forward position shot a better percentage than Melo. So how can he be considered top 10 with zero defense and a worst shooting percentage than other guys at his position?
 
[quote name='soulvengeance']Looks like Nate got canned in Portland. Between that and trading Camby and Wallace, looks like Portland is in rebuilding mode.[/QUOTE]

Speaking of coaches who didn't adjust their offense...

With all of those athletic wings, Portland should have been running like the Suns of 2005. As an upside to the deal, Batum will be featured even more than he has been in the last month, and he'll shine.

On Melo:

For his career, his points produced per 100 possessions is 107. League average during that time? 107.

Top 10!

Losing Nene will suck for Denver, but Faried will be a decent replacement. Not as big, but will grab boards, shoot a high percentage, not turn the ball over, and gets steals and blocks.
 
People don't realize (or fail to comprehend the importance) that Melo is horrible on defense.

Amare is horrible on defense as well.

And you wonder why the Knicks give up more points and start losing games when they plug in their two (offensive) superstars and stray away from the scrappy basketball?

Also, some people in this thread need to take some of these

chill_pill.jpg
before they have a heart attack. :cold:
 
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