Official 2011-2012 NBA Season thread
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CaseyRyback
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[quote name='renique46']LOL terry
http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/7753958/jason-terry-see-miami-heat-next-season
everybody gonna try to go ring chasing in Miami
Nash,Kidd,Terry, i could easily see Nash starting out of those 3.[/QUOTE]
Kidd's staying in Dallas. He already said he plans to be Deron's back up. They have the same representation as well, which makes what he said more likely.
http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/7753958/jason-terry-see-miami-heat-next-season
everybody gonna try to go ring chasing in Miami
Nash,Kidd,Terry, i could easily see Nash starting out of those 3.[/QUOTE]
Kidd's staying in Dallas. He already said he plans to be Deron's back up. They have the same representation as well, which makes what he said more likely.
ced
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[quote name='renique46']ruh oh j lin gonna have surgery, guess we all know whose fault that is 
[/QUOTE]
Lin's gotta bless his fortunes that he had a good run before the injury. If Linsanity had never happened, he would have been quietly ushered back to the D League. Now at least his chances to stay with the Knicks or another NBA team are substantially better.
[/QUOTE]Lin's gotta bless his fortunes that he had a good run before the injury. If Linsanity had never happened, he would have been quietly ushered back to the D League. Now at least his chances to stay with the Knicks or another NBA team are substantially better.
Laker beat Warriors tonight 120-112. Kobe bounce back from that abysmal game (3-21) to drop 40 on 16 for 28. 
Bynum went down in the first half with an ankle spain. X-ray negative. Even with Bynum out Lakers outrebound Warriors by 21.
Good shooting from three tonight (10 made) and decent bench play as well.
Bynum went down in the first half with an ankle spain. X-ray negative. Even with Bynum out Lakers outrebound Warriors by 21.
Good shooting from three tonight (10 made) and decent bench play as well.
Soodmeg
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[quote name='BigSpoonyBard']I think it's become painfully obvious that the NBA over-expanded from 1988-1995. There simply isn't enough high-end talent to support the number of teams currently in existence. I'd like to see the league scale back the number of teams, turning the cut teams into D-League teams to the point where there is a 1-1 relationship between NBA teams and their development affiliates. This would allow the D-league to operate as a true minor league system where teams could send players down for rehab or development and call them up as needed. It would also strengthen the depth of the talent pool in the D-league and the NBA at the same time (i.e., the best players are playing on NBA teams while players who were formerly on NBA teams but not top tier players will be playing in the D-league).
Yeah, I know, owners and players would never go for it, but I can dream, can't I?[/QUOTE]
Coming back to this, what does everyone think the actual problem is with this?
I think its more than just not having enough talent, I think its poor scouting, poor contracts that keep bad players on rosters forever (how the
ing is Kwame Brown still pulling down big contracts?) poor decision making by higher ups. And although I do not agree with the college 1 year rule a pretty big lack of development of new players. There are too many hype players and not enough substances. Far too much shuffling around of bust players and not enough high quality coaches player realistic systems. I cant really say because of us can really comment on the different between playing in college and playing in the pros but it really seems like the NBA with this vast billion dollars should be able to scout these kids better.
Yeah, I know, owners and players would never go for it, but I can dream, can't I?[/QUOTE]
Coming back to this, what does everyone think the actual problem is with this?
I think its more than just not having enough talent, I think its poor scouting, poor contracts that keep bad players on rosters forever (how the
ing is Kwame Brown still pulling down big contracts?) poor decision making by higher ups. And although I do not agree with the college 1 year rule a pretty big lack of development of new players. There are too many hype players and not enough substances. Far too much shuffling around of bust players and not enough high quality coaches player realistic systems. I cant really say because of us can really comment on the different between playing in college and playing in the pros but it really seems like the NBA with this vast billion dollars should be able to scout these kids better.
lordopus99
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[quote name='Soodmeg']Coming back to this, what does everyone think the actual problem is with this?
I think its more than just not having enough talent, I think its poor scouting, poor contracts that keep bad players on rosters forever (how theing is Kwame Brown still pulling down big contracts?) poor decision making by higher ups. And although I do not agree with the college 1 year rule a pretty big lack of development of new players. There are too many hype players and not enough substances. Far too much shuffling around of bust players and not enough high quality coaches player realistic systems. I cant really say because of us can really comment on the different between playing in college and playing in the pros but it really seems like the NBA with this vast billion dollars should be able to scout these kids better.[/QUOTE]
For me, it isn't about lack of talent and more to do with superstar treatment. Lebron and Rose can run over any player and get the call in their favor vs the charge which it should be. How many of those guys get away with walks (3 steps)... This is why the 90s prime was better because players were allowed to play defense. It was more about playing vs acting.
I will give the bad contracts hurt the league too. Simple fix: Make the contracts like the NFL without guaranteed money. Then the Eddy Curry's of the NBA would have been long gone. It also would give more incentive for players to play their hardest all season long vs just in the playoffs (the ability to take a trophy) or their contract year (a nice fat raise).
I think its more than just not having enough talent, I think its poor scouting, poor contracts that keep bad players on rosters forever (how the
ing is Kwame Brown still pulling down big contracts?) poor decision making by higher ups. And although I do not agree with the college 1 year rule a pretty big lack of development of new players. There are too many hype players and not enough substances. Far too much shuffling around of bust players and not enough high quality coaches player realistic systems. I cant really say because of us can really comment on the different between playing in college and playing in the pros but it really seems like the NBA with this vast billion dollars should be able to scout these kids better.[/QUOTE]For me, it isn't about lack of talent and more to do with superstar treatment. Lebron and Rose can run over any player and get the call in their favor vs the charge which it should be. How many of those guys get away with walks (3 steps)... This is why the 90s prime was better because players were allowed to play defense. It was more about playing vs acting.
I will give the bad contracts hurt the league too. Simple fix: Make the contracts like the NFL without guaranteed money. Then the Eddy Curry's of the NBA would have been long gone. It also would give more incentive for players to play their hardest all season long vs just in the playoffs (the ability to take a trophy) or their contract year (a nice fat raise).
BigSpoonyBard
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[quote name='Soodmeg']Coming back to this, what does everyone think the actual problem is with this?
I think its more than just not having enough talent, I think its poor scouting, poor contracts that keep bad players on rosters forever (how theing is Kwame Brown still pulling down big contracts?) poor decision making by higher ups. And although I do not agree with the college 1 year rule a pretty big lack of development of new players. There are too many hype players and not enough substances. Far too much shuffling around of bust players and not enough high quality coaches player realistic systems. I cant really say because of us can really comment on the different between playing in college and playing in the pros but it really seems like the NBA with this vast billion dollars should be able to scout these kids better.[/QUOTE]
I think all of that is part of the problem, for sure. The Wizards and the Kings have had lottery picks year after year, but all they've got to show for it are dysfunctional teams. That comes down to scouting and evaluating players to fit the goals of the team.
But there are teams that are starting guys who should and would be on the bench (at best) for a semi-decent team. Does there need to be more and better development? Absolutely. Clearly, the one-year college rule is a pretty crappy system for doing that. With an expanded D-league and reduced NBA league, we could do away with the one-year rule. If a kid wants to jump to the NBA, great. But there's no guarantee of anything, and teams could spend time having them coached in their D-league team.
And yes, that means salaries shouldn't be guaranteed (or at least fully guaranteed). Want to stay in the NBA? Prepare to work for it.
I think its more than just not having enough talent, I think its poor scouting, poor contracts that keep bad players on rosters forever (how the
ing is Kwame Brown still pulling down big contracts?) poor decision making by higher ups. And although I do not agree with the college 1 year rule a pretty big lack of development of new players. There are too many hype players and not enough substances. Far too much shuffling around of bust players and not enough high quality coaches player realistic systems. I cant really say because of us can really comment on the different between playing in college and playing in the pros but it really seems like the NBA with this vast billion dollars should be able to scout these kids better.[/QUOTE]I think all of that is part of the problem, for sure. The Wizards and the Kings have had lottery picks year after year, but all they've got to show for it are dysfunctional teams. That comes down to scouting and evaluating players to fit the goals of the team.
But there are teams that are starting guys who should and would be on the bench (at best) for a semi-decent team. Does there need to be more and better development? Absolutely. Clearly, the one-year college rule is a pretty crappy system for doing that. With an expanded D-league and reduced NBA league, we could do away with the one-year rule. If a kid wants to jump to the NBA, great. But there's no guarantee of anything, and teams could spend time having them coached in their D-league team.
And yes, that means salaries shouldn't be guaranteed (or at least fully guaranteed). Want to stay in the NBA? Prepare to work for it.
bigdaddybruce44
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[quote name='lordopus99']For me, it isn't about lack of talent and more to do with superstar treatment. Lebron and Rose can run over any player and get the call in their favor vs the charge which it should be. How many of those guys get away with walks (3 steps)... This is why the 90s prime was better because players were allowed to play defense. It was more about playing vs acting.[/QUOTE]
Though it's not the biggest issue, I do agree that this has hurt the NBA tremendously, both in terms of creating a rift in competition and the quality of the produce they put out.
All major stars in every sport get special treatment. Derek Jeter's stikezone is a lot different than a back-up outfielder's. There are certain QB's that get breathed on heavily and that will draw a roughing the passer flag. Hell, even in the old NBA, when they use to actually play basketball, Michael Jordan would stiff arm people and take five steps to the basket.
But the NBA has taken it to a massive extreme now, and it's hurt the game they play. It's all razzle-dazzle nonsense. An NBA game today has a lot more in common with a Globetrotters event than it does with anything from the league's past.
Of course, that's just the old, bitter fan in me speaking. That NBA is gone, and it will never come back. Just glad at least someone else misses it.
Though it's not the biggest issue, I do agree that this has hurt the NBA tremendously, both in terms of creating a rift in competition and the quality of the produce they put out.
All major stars in every sport get special treatment. Derek Jeter's stikezone is a lot different than a back-up outfielder's. There are certain QB's that get breathed on heavily and that will draw a roughing the passer flag. Hell, even in the old NBA, when they use to actually play basketball, Michael Jordan would stiff arm people and take five steps to the basket.
But the NBA has taken it to a massive extreme now, and it's hurt the game they play. It's all razzle-dazzle nonsense. An NBA game today has a lot more in common with a Globetrotters event than it does with anything from the league's past.
Of course, that's just the old, bitter fan in me speaking. That NBA is gone, and it will never come back. Just glad at least someone else misses it.
soulvengeance
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[quote name='lordopus99']For me, it isn't about lack of talent and more to do with superstar treatment. Lebron and Rose can run over any player and get the call in their favor vs the charge which it should be. How many of those guys get away with walks (3 steps)... This is why the 90s prime was better because players were allowed to play defense. It was more about playing vs acting.
I will give the bad contracts hurt the league too. Simple fix: Make the contracts like the NFL without guaranteed money. Then the Eddy Curry's of the NBA would have been long gone. It also would give more incentive for players to play their hardest all season long vs just in the playoffs (the ability to take a trophy) or their contract year (a nice fat raise).[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I dunno where you were in the 90's, but this stuff has been going on forever, besides the charging. I don't think contracts should be like the NFL, but they just need to make them shorter, like 3 years.
I will give the bad contracts hurt the league too. Simple fix: Make the contracts like the NFL without guaranteed money. Then the Eddy Curry's of the NBA would have been long gone. It also would give more incentive for players to play their hardest all season long vs just in the playoffs (the ability to take a trophy) or their contract year (a nice fat raise).[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I dunno where you were in the 90's, but this stuff has been going on forever, besides the charging. I don't think contracts should be like the NFL, but they just need to make them shorter, like 3 years.
CaseyRyback
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[quote name='soulvengeance']Yeah, I dunno where you were in the 90's, but this stuff has been going on forever, besides the charging. I don't think contracts should be like the NFL, but they just need to make them shorter, like 3 years.[/QUOTE]
They just shortened them by a year. 4 years for a max guy from another team and 5 for a retention player is fine.
Anyone complaining about the superstar treatment in the league or a lack of defense should have been watching Thunder/Heat tonight. That looked like Knicks/Heat or the Bad Boys vs. the Bulls/Lakers/Celtics.
Nice win for Dallas tonight. Made up for that sorry effort on Monday. Shawn Marion is a beast on the defensive end. He has to be 1st team all NBA on defense this year if he isn't defensive player of the year.
They just shortened them by a year. 4 years for a max guy from another team and 5 for a retention player is fine.
Anyone complaining about the superstar treatment in the league or a lack of defense should have been watching Thunder/Heat tonight. That looked like Knicks/Heat or the Bad Boys vs. the Bulls/Lakers/Celtics.
Nice win for Dallas tonight. Made up for that sorry effort on Monday. Shawn Marion is a beast on the defensive end. He has to be 1st team all NBA on defense this year if he isn't defensive player of the year.
[quote name='Soodmeg']Holy shit Blake ing nutted on Gasol not once but twice.....OOOOOOO!!!!! Damn Gasol you might as well take a seat for the rest of the day.[/QUOTE]
Dude came over the back for the first and was throwning elbows on the second and how the it wasn't a foul is laughable.
Second time this season both Bynum and Kobe go for 30 each, won both
ing nutted on Gasol not once but twice.....OOOOOOO!!!!! Damn Gasol you might as well take a seat for the rest of the day.[/QUOTE]Dude came over the back for the first and was throwning elbows on the second and how the
it wasn't a foul is laughable.Second time this season both Bynum and Kobe go for 30 each, won both
Feeding the Abscess
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[quote name='CaseyRyback']They just shortened them by a year. 4 years for a max guy from another team and 5 for a retention player is fine.
Anyone complaining about the superstar treatment in the league or a lack of defense should have been watching Thunder/Heat tonight. That looked like Knicks/Heat or the Bad Boys vs. the Bulls/Lakers/Celtics.
Nice win for Dallas tonight. Made up for that sorry effort on Monday. Shawn Marion is a beast on the defensive end. He has to be 1st team all NBA on defense this year if he isn't defensive player of the year.[/QUOTE]
Marion really came into the league at the wrong time. His eight and a half season run with Phoenix was overshadowed by Duncan and KG's peaks. Otherwise, Marion probably would have had 4 or 5 first team all defense selections. In my own fantasy world, I'd time warp back to 2003 and put AK-47 and Matrix at 3 and 4 and watch the fun.
Can't agree with you on Marion winning DPOY or 1st team all defense though. I don't think he beats out Ibaka, Josh Smith, Brand/Iguodala (not sure they'd classify Iggy as a F for this award, but one of those guys needs to be on the team), or even Durant or Garnett. Definitely won't beat out LeBron. Kevin Love will probably get votes for his rebounding.
Anyone complaining about the superstar treatment in the league or a lack of defense should have been watching Thunder/Heat tonight. That looked like Knicks/Heat or the Bad Boys vs. the Bulls/Lakers/Celtics.
Nice win for Dallas tonight. Made up for that sorry effort on Monday. Shawn Marion is a beast on the defensive end. He has to be 1st team all NBA on defense this year if he isn't defensive player of the year.[/QUOTE]
Marion really came into the league at the wrong time. His eight and a half season run with Phoenix was overshadowed by Duncan and KG's peaks. Otherwise, Marion probably would have had 4 or 5 first team all defense selections. In my own fantasy world, I'd time warp back to 2003 and put AK-47 and Matrix at 3 and 4 and watch the fun.
Can't agree with you on Marion winning DPOY or 1st team all defense though. I don't think he beats out Ibaka, Josh Smith, Brand/Iguodala (not sure they'd classify Iggy as a F for this award, but one of those guys needs to be on the team), or even Durant or Garnett. Definitely won't beat out LeBron. Kevin Love will probably get votes for his rebounding.
Soodmeg
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[quote name='j.t']Dude came over the back for the first and was throwning elbows on the second and how the it wasn't a foul is laughable.
Second time this season both Bynum and Kobe go for 30 each, won both[/QUOTE]
Get the out of here man. Both plays were very legal.
There is no over the back when successfully catching and dunking a rebound...there never has been. That play happens a lot and its never called over the back...so its ridiculous to even say that.
The 2nd dunk was fouls on both players with Blakes being a reaction...Gasol jumped to foul Blake...he wasnt even going for the ball...which is the right play...it just so happens that blake and sky and is stronger than most people.
Wow...you a lakers fan or something? Jesus...I havent seen that much bias since the golden globes.
it wasn't a foul is laughable.Second time this season both Bynum and Kobe go for 30 each, won both[/QUOTE]
Get the
out of here man. Both plays were very legal.There is no over the back when successfully catching and dunking a rebound...there never has been. That play happens a lot and its never called over the back...so its ridiculous to even say that.
The 2nd dunk was fouls on both players with Blakes being a reaction...Gasol jumped to foul Blake...he wasnt even going for the ball...which is the right play...it just so happens that blake and sky and is stronger than most people.
Wow...you a lakers fan or something? Jesus...I havent seen that much bias since the golden globes.
Feeding the Abscess
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[quote name='Soodmeg']Get the out of here man. Both plays were very legal.
There is no over the back when successfully catching and dunking a rebound...there never has been. That play happens a lot and its never called over the back...so its ridiculous to even say that.
The 2nd dunk was fouls on both players with Blakes being a reaction...Gasol jumped to foul Blake...he wasnt even going for the ball...which is the right play...it just so happens that blake and sky and is stronger than most people.
Wow...you a lakers fan or something? Jesus...I havent seen that much bias since the golden globes.[/QUOTE]
Best part of his fandom post is his avatar of Kobe flattening Nash when Nash was standing outside the circle.
out of here man. Both plays were very legal.There is no over the back when successfully catching and dunking a rebound...there never has been. That play happens a lot and its never called over the back...so its ridiculous to even say that.
The 2nd dunk was fouls on both players with Blakes being a reaction...Gasol jumped to foul Blake...he wasnt even going for the ball...which is the right play...it just so happens that blake and sky and is stronger than most people.
Wow...you a lakers fan or something? Jesus...I havent seen that much bias since the golden globes.[/QUOTE]
Best part of his fandom post is his avatar of Kobe flattening Nash when Nash was standing outside the circle.
Soodmeg
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[quote name='renique46']2nd dunk was a foul same way b diddy on andrei was a foul but since its blake!!11 good luck on that. funny how that matters more to espn then the actual game. Hold that L clips, besides billups whose injured cp3 is their only complete bball player.[/QUOTE]
Waaaa? Was this a real sentence? I read this like 3 times and have no clue what you just said.
Oh wait...just got what you said.
Dude....its the Clippers...we should be happy that they are even competing..what did you want them to do go from 20 straight losing season to NBA champions? They just got this roster and most of their key players have barely been in the league for 3 years. Let them grow a little bit.
Man....you guys are on a role tonight!
Waaaa? Was this a real sentence? I read this like 3 times and have no clue what you just said.
Oh wait...just got what you said.
Dude....its the Clippers...we should be happy that they are even competing..what did you want them to do go from 20 straight losing season to NBA champions? They just got this roster and most of their key players have barely been in the league for 3 years. Let them grow a little bit.
Man....you guys are on a role tonight!
CaseyRyback
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[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']Marion really came into the league at the wrong time. His eight and a half season run with Phoenix was overshadowed by Duncan and KG's peaks. Otherwise, Marion probably would have had 4 or 5 first team all defense selections. In my own fantasy world, I'd time warp back to 2003 and put AK-47 and Matrix at 3 and 4 and watch the fun.
Can't agree with you on Marion winning DPOY or 1st team all defense though. I don't think he beats out Ibaka, Josh Smith, Brand/Iguodala (not sure they'd classify Iggy as a F for this award, but one of those guys needs to be on the team), or even Durant or Garnett. Definitely won't beat out LeBron. Kevin Love will probably get votes for his rebounding.[/QUOTE]
Marion has straight up punked everyone this year with the exception of Jeremy Lin (the first game) and Lebron. When you guard 1-4 and shut people down, you got to be worthy of the award. No one thought the Mav's would be a top five defensive team this year and the only reason they are there is because of Marion (Haywood and West have been solid as well, but they haven't had to deal with the guys Marion has).
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mave...ould-shawn-marion-be-a-leading-dpoy-candidate
Ibaka, Smith, and Iggy are all solid D guys, but Smith has been a C all year and Ibaka gets a ton of help inside from Perk to make the kind of plays he does. Not discounting his skill set, but he isn't as good an on the ball defender. He is a stellar help defender.
Durant isn't that good of a defender. If Ibaka or Durant were solid on the ball defenders they wouldn't have let Dirk destroy them in the playoffs.
I know I am biased, but Matrix went out and put on a clinic in the fourth quarter on both ends of the floor tonight so I have to pump him up. Ibaka, Chandler, and Howard probably all will rank higher than him in DPOY awards, but he could be that Karl Malone type candidate and come out and steal it away in the make up vote.
Can't agree with you on Marion winning DPOY or 1st team all defense though. I don't think he beats out Ibaka, Josh Smith, Brand/Iguodala (not sure they'd classify Iggy as a F for this award, but one of those guys needs to be on the team), or even Durant or Garnett. Definitely won't beat out LeBron. Kevin Love will probably get votes for his rebounding.[/QUOTE]
Marion has straight up punked everyone this year with the exception of Jeremy Lin (the first game) and Lebron. When you guard 1-4 and shut people down, you got to be worthy of the award. No one thought the Mav's would be a top five defensive team this year and the only reason they are there is because of Marion (Haywood and West have been solid as well, but they haven't had to deal with the guys Marion has).
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mave...ould-shawn-marion-be-a-leading-dpoy-candidate
Ibaka, Smith, and Iggy are all solid D guys, but Smith has been a C all year and Ibaka gets a ton of help inside from Perk to make the kind of plays he does. Not discounting his skill set, but he isn't as good an on the ball defender. He is a stellar help defender.
Durant isn't that good of a defender. If Ibaka or Durant were solid on the ball defenders they wouldn't have let Dirk destroy them in the playoffs.
I know I am biased, but Matrix went out and put on a clinic in the fourth quarter on both ends of the floor tonight so I have to pump him up. Ibaka, Chandler, and Howard probably all will rank higher than him in DPOY awards, but he could be that Karl Malone type candidate and come out and steal it away in the make up vote.
CaseyRyback
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[quote name='Soodmeg']Waaaa? Was this a real sentence? I read this like 3 times and have no clue what you just said.
Oh wait...just got what you said.
Dude....its the Clippers...we should be happy that they are even competing..what did you want them to do go from 20 straight losing season to NBA champions? They just got this roster and most of their key players have barely been in the league for 3 years. Let them grow a little bit.
Man....you guys are on a role tonight![/QUOTE]
ESPN told me they were going to be the champs.
They have the talent to be an elite team, but they are the worst free throw shooting team I have ever seen. Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan should be in the gym shooting free throws for ten hours a day. In crunch time they aren't in the floor or they are scared of getting fouled so they don't touch the ball.
Oh wait...just got what you said.
Dude....its the Clippers...we should be happy that they are even competing..what did you want them to do go from 20 straight losing season to NBA champions? They just got this roster and most of their key players have barely been in the league for 3 years. Let them grow a little bit.
Man....you guys are on a role tonight![/QUOTE]
ESPN told me they were going to be the champs.
They have the talent to be an elite team, but they are the worst free throw shooting team I have ever seen. Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan should be in the gym shooting free throws for ten hours a day. In crunch time they aren't in the floor or they are scared of getting fouled so they don't touch the ball.
Lebron jumping over someone for the alley oop dunk will always be way more impressive to me than that fake ass dunk the media goes ape shit for regarding blake/perkins. Didn't know throwing the ing ball into the hoop like a shot put is considered dunking now.
LOL Gasol
"You don't really see what happened," Gasol said. "It was quick, a hit and run kind of thing, right? The ball went in, I was on my a--, I woke up, I stood up and told the referee I had a f--ing forearm on my face, on my throat, and that's something that needs to be looked at. But it happened too quick. I didn't realize."
ing ball into the hoop like a shot put is considered dunking now.LOL Gasol
"You don't really see what happened," Gasol said. "It was quick, a hit and run kind of thing, right? The ball went in, I was on my a--, I woke up, I stood up and told the referee I had a f--ing forearm on my face, on my throat, and that's something that needs to be looked at. But it happened too quick. I didn't realize."
Wow, can you say awkward.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bask...irms-Dwight-Howard-wants-him-fired/54041976/1
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bask...irms-Dwight-Howard-wants-him-fired/54041976/1
Soodmeg
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Pffft.
Dude people need to face facts...SVG sucks. He is not that great of a coach he doesnt do anything that is that much better than any other coach. Does he have a special offense that only he can run like Mikey D or Phil Jackson? Nope....chuck 3s all game. Does he preach defense superiority like Tibbs? Maybe a run and gun style like Brooks or Erik Spols?
Nope. He is the most mediocre coach in the history of professional basketball. He has the most dominate center and he doesnt even run plays for the guy.
He is super average at everything...so the choice between Howard and SVG should be easy...pick Howard. You can get almost any other coach to do what SVG has done with the team. Isnt Avery Johnson still available?
Dude people need to face facts...SVG sucks. He is not that great of a coach he doesnt do anything that is that much better than any other coach. Does he have a special offense that only he can run like Mikey D or Phil Jackson? Nope....chuck 3s all game. Does he preach defense superiority like Tibbs? Maybe a run and gun style like Brooks or Erik Spols?
Nope. He is the most mediocre coach in the history of professional basketball. He has the most dominate center and he doesnt even run plays for the guy.
He is super average at everything...so the choice between Howard and SVG should be easy...pick Howard. You can get almost any other coach to do what SVG has done with the team. Isnt Avery Johnson still available?
I don't like SVG either, but don't like players suggesting coach firings either. They should just leave if not happy.
And part of SVG's problem is he run's too many plays for Dwight. He treats Dwight like Shaq when he's never going to have that kind of offensive game. He'll always be a low 20 pt a game scorer as he just doesn't have the skills or shooting ability to do more than that.
Yet most of the offense is isolate Dwight, dump in them the ball, have him try to get a dunk or hook shot (drawing fouls is bad since he's awful from the line), and if that's not there kick out for threes. Mix in a few pick and rolls with Dwight and Nelson or Turkoglu and that's pretty much the whole offense.
The problem is not running plays for other options, like running screens to get shooters open, or to letting people like Richardson (and Carter/Pietrus before him) slash and attack the basket etc.
And Avery Johnson coaches the Nets.
And part of SVG's problem is he run's too many plays for Dwight. He treats Dwight like Shaq when he's never going to have that kind of offensive game. He'll always be a low 20 pt a game scorer as he just doesn't have the skills or shooting ability to do more than that.
Yet most of the offense is isolate Dwight, dump in them the ball, have him try to get a dunk or hook shot (drawing fouls is bad since he's awful from the line), and if that's not there kick out for threes. Mix in a few pick and rolls with Dwight and Nelson or Turkoglu and that's pretty much the whole offense.
The problem is not running plays for other options, like running screens to get shooters open, or to letting people like Richardson (and Carter/Pietrus before him) slash and attack the basket etc.
And Avery Johnson coaches the Nets.
Soodmeg
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Avery Johnson still coaches the nets? Man, I thought he got let go a while back.
Anyway, yeah dude I usually any big ticket game but I cant stand watching Orlando....blargh. Their game is just unappealing in every way.
Speaking of Shaq he recently said of superman (he called him that which was surprising) that he would tell Howard the same thing that Kareem and Russell told him..."You got to do more big fella" and this was when Shaq was an easy 25-10 guy. Although Ewing is right there I think SVG has done Howard a huge disservice and developing his game. Howard should be getting 30-15 every game at the least.
Piggy backing on the previous topic I think a lot of "bust" like player are a result of shitty coaching. He will never get any better because no one focused on training this offensive game when he started.
Anyway, yeah dude I usually any big ticket game but I cant stand watching Orlando....blargh. Their game is just unappealing in every way.
Speaking of Shaq he recently said of superman (he called him that which was surprising) that he would tell Howard the same thing that Kareem and Russell told him..."You got to do more big fella" and this was when Shaq was an easy 25-10 guy. Although Ewing is right there I think SVG has done Howard a huge disservice and developing his game. Howard should be getting 30-15 every game at the least.
Piggy backing on the previous topic I think a lot of "bust" like player are a result of shitty coaching. He will never get any better because no one focused on training this offensive game when he started.
Meh, I disagree with that. Ewing has worked with Howard extensively for years now. He's just not that skilled a player on offense. He's just big and athletic as hell, but just doesn't have the skill set to be versatile on offense like Ewing (could hit the jumper), Shaq (baby hook, and was much heavier and could muscle in for dunks more than Howard can), or Kareem/Hakeem with their repertoire of post moves.
Howard has improved and added a semi-effective hook shot etc., so he has made progress. He's just never going to be a true first option on offense center. He can score when he's got position on the block, and on put back. But he's not a guy you can toss the ball to and have him create something for himself on the post or wing or baseline like the truly great offensive centers in league history.
He needs a system where the offense goes outside in, rather than inside out. So he can just dominate on defense like always, and get points in the flow of the game as he gets more Iso's and offensive rebounds when teams can't double him all the time due to perimeter shooters and slashers being a threat.
Howard has improved and added a semi-effective hook shot etc., so he has made progress. He's just never going to be a true first option on offense center. He can score when he's got position on the block, and on put back. But he's not a guy you can toss the ball to and have him create something for himself on the post or wing or baseline like the truly great offensive centers in league history.
He needs a system where the offense goes outside in, rather than inside out. So he can just dominate on defense like always, and get points in the flow of the game as he gets more Iso's and offensive rebounds when teams can't double him all the time due to perimeter shooters and slashers being a threat.
Soodmeg
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But that is what I am saying, Howard isnt going to be an all star just on his offensive skill set but you can get much more production by changing the system you are running.
Just like Mikey D SVG has refused to come up with a system that fits the players he has but instead is forcing them into what he thinks will work...we I think has stunted his offensive growth.
Patrice and games are so totally different in order for it to stick you are going to have to continuous use it in a game not just in the gym. He is never going to feel comfortable shooting a mid range j if its considered completely out of the system. Its the same with someone like Adam Morrison...who was a hilarious bust in the NBA but in the summer league would drop 40. I dont believe Howard cant hit mid range jumpers I think its just completely out of the system so he doesnt even think about it.Although I agree he will never get a ton of post moves but he should be much further along then he is now.
Its the same for Blake Griffin.....2 years in and he is still doing the exact same things (actually his rebounding has fallen off somehow) because their coach just shrugs and lets them.There needs to be more coaches like Tibbs who somehow convinces people who are not known for hardnose defense to be defensive monsters.
Just like Mikey D SVG has refused to come up with a system that fits the players he has but instead is forcing them into what he thinks will work...we I think has stunted his offensive growth.
Patrice and games are so totally different in order for it to stick you are going to have to continuous use it in a game not just in the gym. He is never going to feel comfortable shooting a mid range j if its considered completely out of the system. Its the same with someone like Adam Morrison...who was a hilarious bust in the NBA but in the summer league would drop 40. I dont believe Howard cant hit mid range jumpers I think its just completely out of the system so he doesnt even think about it.Although I agree he will never get a ton of post moves but he should be much further along then he is now.
Its the same for Blake Griffin.....2 years in and he is still doing the exact same things (actually his rebounding has fallen off somehow) because their coach just shrugs and lets them.There needs to be more coaches like Tibbs who somehow convinces people who are not known for hardnose defense to be defensive monsters.
bigdaddybruce44
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[quote name='Soodmeg']He is super average at everything...so the choice between Howard and SVG should be easy...pick Howard.[/QUOTE]
[quote name='dmaul1114']I don't like SVG either, but don't like players suggesting coach firings either. They should just leave if not happy.[/quote]
I gotta agree. SVG isn't special, but what happens when they do actually get a good coach, and Howard still cries? If you start letting him make decisions now, it will never end.
[quote name='dmaul1114']Meh, I disagree with that. Ewing has worked with Howard extensively for years now. He's just not that skilled a player on offense. He's just big and athletic as hell, but just doesn't have the skill set to be versatile on offense like Ewing (could hit the jumper), Shaq (baby hook, and was much heavier and could muscle in for dunks more than Howard can), or Kareem/Hakeem with their repertoire of post moves.[/QUOTE]
Totally agree with this, as well. Howard is a physical specimen, but it's clear now that no amount of work is going to turn him into a dominant scorer. His skill set simply doesn't allow it.
[quote name='dmaul1114']I don't like SVG either, but don't like players suggesting coach firings either. They should just leave if not happy.[/quote]
I gotta agree. SVG isn't special, but what happens when they do actually get a good coach, and Howard still cries? If you start letting him make decisions now, it will never end.
[quote name='dmaul1114']Meh, I disagree with that. Ewing has worked with Howard extensively for years now. He's just not that skilled a player on offense. He's just big and athletic as hell, but just doesn't have the skill set to be versatile on offense like Ewing (could hit the jumper), Shaq (baby hook, and was much heavier and could muscle in for dunks more than Howard can), or Kareem/Hakeem with their repertoire of post moves.[/QUOTE]
Totally agree with this, as well. Howard is a physical specimen, but it's clear now that no amount of work is going to turn him into a dominant scorer. His skill set simply doesn't allow it.
My point was you aren't going to get more production out of Howard regardless of system. He's going to average in the low 20s.
The problem with SVG's system is it cuts down on production from the guards as he's running an inside out offense like he has Shaq or Hakeem or Duncan in the post.
Dwight can still get his 20 and 12 with less plays ran for him and more getting dishes of penetration and scoring on offensive rebounds, along with getting more ISO touches as teams have to focus more on stopping guards from driving.
So I don't think Dwight's offensive growth has been stunted at all. If anything it's been aided as he probably wouldn't have developed the hook he has now if he'd always been in the system I'm outlining. But that just hasn't upped his scoring enough to justify him being the central focus on offense. He just doesn't have the offensive skill set to be the first option. And it's frustrating that SVG hasn't changed the system accordingly and done more to get shots and drives for the perimeter talent they've had over recent years.
The problem with SVG's system is it cuts down on production from the guards as he's running an inside out offense like he has Shaq or Hakeem or Duncan in the post.
Dwight can still get his 20 and 12 with less plays ran for him and more getting dishes of penetration and scoring on offensive rebounds, along with getting more ISO touches as teams have to focus more on stopping guards from driving.
So I don't think Dwight's offensive growth has been stunted at all. If anything it's been aided as he probably wouldn't have developed the hook he has now if he'd always been in the system I'm outlining. But that just hasn't upped his scoring enough to justify him being the central focus on offense. He just doesn't have the offensive skill set to be the first option. And it's frustrating that SVG hasn't changed the system accordingly and done more to get shots and drives for the perimeter talent they've had over recent years.
lordopus99
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While I agree with Howard wanting Van Gundy out... it really is not his place to say anything. Do your job, let SVG do his, and if Management want to truly step up remove SVG, let them.
Like Dmaul stated, the problem is the guard play is lacking. None of them truly make a "play". JRich should be slashing, which he isn't. Anderson should be posting up as well, which he isn't. Instead you find these two hawking the 3pt line. Screens are a past time in Orlando. This is why this team can't get over the hump. I don't buy the "no talent" deal. I blame the system.
To Howard: His main problem offensively is he is playing like he is in the 80s/90s i.e. using his elbows too much when gaining position. He is bigger and stronger than anyone that guards him. One-on-one people can't stop his spin move (the main move). Instead, they get him to foul them.
.................
That Pau quote is classic. I saw those "dunks" on Sportscenters. I am not a laker fan... Blake gets away with alot when he does those "dunks"... I am referencing this to other games as well.
Like Dmaul stated, the problem is the guard play is lacking. None of them truly make a "play". JRich should be slashing, which he isn't. Anderson should be posting up as well, which he isn't. Instead you find these two hawking the 3pt line. Screens are a past time in Orlando. This is why this team can't get over the hump. I don't buy the "no talent" deal. I blame the system.
To Howard: His main problem offensively is he is playing like he is in the 80s/90s i.e. using his elbows too much when gaining position. He is bigger and stronger than anyone that guards him. One-on-one people can't stop his spin move (the main move). Instead, they get him to foul them.
.................
That Pau quote is classic. I saw those "dunks" on Sportscenters. I am not a laker fan... Blake gets away with alot when he does those "dunks"... I am referencing this to other games as well.
It's definitely the system. Players like Richardson, Pietrus and others who've been here slashed a ton more on their prior (and subsequent) teams.
The system is just focuses on dumping into Howard and kick outs for threes. No slashers, screens for shooters (other than when needing a 3 late) etc.
The system is just focuses on dumping into Howard and kick outs for threes. No slashers, screens for shooters (other than when needing a 3 late) etc.
Soodmeg
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EDIT: This is based on what I heard....and that SVG brought it up first.
Why would SVG, even bring this up? What agenda does he have? There is less than 20 games in the season and they are going to the playoffs why the would he bring this up?
If this was a player he would be getting murdered by talking heads about being a distraction about not being a team player blah blah blah But because its a coach people seem to be just questioning it.....thats crap. These talking heads should be killing him non stop.....
Why would SVG, even bring this up? What agenda does he have? There is less than 20 games in the season and they are going to the playoffs why the
would he bring this up?If this was a player he would be getting murdered by talking heads about being a distraction about not being a team player blah blah blah But because its a coach people seem to be just questioning it.....thats crap. These talking heads should be killing him non stop.....
CaseyRyback
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[quote name='Soodmeg']EDIT: This is based on what I heard....and that SVG brought it up first.
Why would SVG, even bring this up? What agenda does he have? There is less than 20 games in the season and they are going to the playoffs why the would he bring this up?
If this was a player he would be getting murdered by talking heads about being a distraction about not being a team player blah blah blah But because its a coach people seem to be just questioning it.....thats crap. These talking heads should be killing him non stop.....[/QUOTE]
He towed the company line once when Shaq did this to him, and he wasn't putting up with that shit again.
I don't really have a problem with SVG. He has been given a broken roster since he has been there as he has one of the five worst GM's above him.
Why would SVG, even bring this up? What agenda does he have? There is less than 20 games in the season and they are going to the playoffs why the
would he bring this up?If this was a player he would be getting murdered by talking heads about being a distraction about not being a team player blah blah blah But because its a coach people seem to be just questioning it.....thats crap. These talking heads should be killing him non stop.....[/QUOTE]
He towed the company line once when Shaq did this to him, and he wasn't putting up with that shit again.
I don't really have a problem with SVG. He has been given a broken roster since he has been there as he has one of the five worst GM's above him.
confoosious
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Why would SVG do it? SVG sees the writing on the wall. He knows the team is not gonna get anywhere in the playoffs and he's gonna get the blame. So he might as well just throw it out there and hope people see Dwight Howard for the phony that he is. Or maybe expose the whole organization for being douchebags.
That might be what SVG is thinking. Tired of covering and pretending Howard didn't ask for his dismissal.
I like Howard. Maybe Doug Collins can turn him around.
That might be what SVG is thinking. Tired of covering and pretending Howard didn't ask for his dismissal.
I like Howard. Maybe Doug Collins can turn him around.
CaseyRyback
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[quote name='confoosious']Why would SVG do it? SVG sees the writing on the wall. He knows the team is not gonna get anywhere in the playoffs and he's gonna get the blame. So he might as well just throw it out there and hope people see Dwight Howard for the phony that he is. Or maybe expose the whole organization for being douchebags.
That might be what SVG is thinking. Tired of covering and pretending Howard didn't ask for his dismissal.
I like Howard. Maybe Doug Collins can turn him around.[/QUOTE]
Nate Macmillan would be a great coach for ORL to look at in the offseason. Crawford and Felton running him out of Portland was ridiculous.
That might be what SVG is thinking. Tired of covering and pretending Howard didn't ask for his dismissal.
I like Howard. Maybe Doug Collins can turn him around.[/QUOTE]
Nate Macmillan would be a great coach for ORL to look at in the offseason. Crawford and Felton running him out of Portland was ridiculous.
[quote name='CaseyRyback']Nate Macmillan would be a great coach for ORL to look at in the offseason. Crawford and Felton running him out of Portland was ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
Nate is good coach and an even better person but I don't think he's the answer. He'll have the same issues SVG had. In order to appease Howard you have to run the offense through him and that's not Nate's MO.
Nate is good coach and an even better person but I don't think he's the answer. He'll have the same issues SVG had. In order to appease Howard you have to run the offense through him and that's not Nate's MO.
lordopus99
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[quote name='renique46']5 losses in a row and now went from 3rd to 5th lmao gg[/QUOTE]
It actually is doing wonders. As we lose, we are getting further away from playing Atlanta in the playoffs; the one team that has been known to beat us regularly. According to standings, we show up as #6 (not sure why since Boston is more games back but whatever I like it). This currently puts us against Indiana, a team we have done well against this season.
[quote name='soomeg']Why would SVG, even bring this up? What agenda does he have? There is less than 20 games in the season and they are going to the playoffs why the would he bring this up?[/quote]
He is tired of the BS. He was run out by players in Miami. I don't blame him for reacting the way he did. Does it hurt the team? Absolutely. Does it hurt his chances finding a new team if let go? Absolutely.
It actually is doing wonders. As we lose, we are getting further away from playing Atlanta in the playoffs; the one team that has been known to beat us regularly. According to standings, we show up as #6 (not sure why since Boston is more games back but whatever I like it). This currently puts us against Indiana, a team we have done well against this season.
[quote name='soomeg']Why would SVG, even bring this up? What agenda does he have? There is less than 20 games in the season and they are going to the playoffs why the would he bring this up?[/quote]
He is tired of the BS. He was run out by players in Miami. I don't blame him for reacting the way he did. Does it hurt the team? Absolutely. Does it hurt his chances finding a new team if let go? Absolutely.
BigSpoonyBard
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Lamar Odom and the Mavs have finally decided to part ways. Dallas is apparently going to keep him on the inactive list for the rest of the season, though.
Soodmeg
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[quote name='BigSpoonyBard']Lamar Odom and the Mavs have finally decided to part ways. Dallas is apparently going to keep him on the inactive list for the rest of the season, though.[/QUOTE]
Wow, I havent really been following Dallas but what the hell is going on there? He cant be that bad to not even play the guy.
Wow, I havent really been following Dallas but what the hell is going on there? He cant be that bad to not even play the guy.
[quote name='Soodmeg']Wow, I havent really been following Dallas but what the hell is going on there? He cant be that bad to not even play the guy.[/QUOTE]
He's been worse. Dallas has given him a ton of opportunities and Odom has shat the bed every time. Odom has been Adam Dunn bad. So no surprise there.
He's been worse. Dallas has given him a ton of opportunities and Odom has shat the bed every time. Odom has been Adam Dunn bad. So no surprise there.
BigSpoonyBard
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[quote name='kill3r7']He's been worse. Dallas has given him a ton of opportunities and Odom has shat the bed every time. Odom has been Adam Dunn bad. So no surprise there.[/QUOTE]
The split was definitely coming. What's interesting is that they aren't just releasing him. Seems like they want to hold on to him as a potential trade chip for the off-season.
The split was definitely coming. What's interesting is that they aren't just releasing him. Seems like they want to hold on to him as a potential trade chip for the off-season.
bread's done