Official 2011-2012 NBA Season thread

[quote name='dmaul1114']No, that was the point.

When a super star demands a trade, the team they're going to has to give up a lot to get them. Then they end up in a worse situation than they were in as they don't have the supporting cast needed to be a top team.

I said that last year when the trade happened the Knicks were going to struggle as they just don't have much other than Melo and Amare. Just like if Dwight get's his top preference trade to the Nets. They won't have shit but him and Williams, and will be even worse than the Magic have been.

Stars really have two options to get on a title contending team.

1. Pressure their current team to make moves to get players to help them.

2. Leave as a free agent like LeBron and Bosh did so they can go to a team without that team having to trade current stars or key role players to get them.

It's not hating on Melo or Dwight. It's just saying that forcing a trade isn't likely to get them on better teams as teams have to give up too much to get a superstar.

Think how much better then Knicks would be Melo had just waited and signed as a free agent in the off season and they thus still had Galinari and some of the others they traded to get Melo[/QUOTE]

Melo wanted out of Denver because he wanted to be close to home (or at least in the big city). The Knicks were just a means to an end. Howard on the other hand wants to win now. He wants someone else to carry the load for a change. As I said earlier it just speaks to his fortitude or lack thereof. Come to think of it, I can't remember the last team to win a championship without two hall of famers or multiple all stars on the roster.
 
True. But Melo could have just waited a few months and signed in NYC as a free agent and then the Knicks could pick and choose who to keep on the roster with him, rather than trading some key players to get him.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']True. But Melo could have just waited a few months and signed in NYC as a free agent and then the Knicks could pick and choose who to keep on the roster with him, rather than trading some key players to get him.[/QUOTE]

Sure he could have waited. If Melo knew how the new CBA would shake out and that he still would have gotten his money, he might have waited. But at the end of the day Melo only cares about Melo. We fans have a tough time understanding this fact. Logic is never part of the equation.
 
I knew I was right when I said in the last thread that Denver got the better of that deal.

Saw the Griffin dunk in person. It was disgusting, and I couldn't hear myself think for like five minutes.
 
[quote name='kill3r7']Sure he could have waited. If Melo knew how the new CBA would shake out and that he still would have gotten his money, he might have waited. But at the end of the day Melo only cares about Melo. We fans have a tough time understanding this fact. Logic is never part of the equation.[/QUOTE]

Again, totally true, and that selfishness/greed is why people hate on them.

I have no problem with what Lebron did. He left and took less money to team up with other stars to have a better chance at a title.

I'd have no problem with Melo or Howard leaving as free agents to do the same.

But it's bothersome to see them demanding trades which usually end up putting them on teams no better (and sometimes worse, like the Knicks) than their old team due to how much the new team has to give up to get them.
 
Dmaul,

Come on brother. Everyone on the planet only cares about themselves and their family, the guy wanted to be closer to his family he saw a way to do it and he got it done. Its not really selfish or greedy, if its true which I believe him how can you ask a guy to wait to the end of the year to be with his family?


I think a lot of people just forget that these guys are human and they do indeed have life outside of basketball. Even if your main reason for playing is solely money thats their right to choose..not everyone who plays buys into all that legend/hero/role model that ESPN tries to crap down your throat.

Some of these guys do indeed think some things are more important than playing in the NBA and their action reflect it.

Demanding a trade is one of the few tools a player has who think he is getting a bad break. Sometimes if feels like you guys think that the team owns their lives when they sign up.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Dmaul,

Come on brother. Everyone on the planet only cares about themselves and their family, the guy wanted to be closer to his family he saw a way to do it and he got it done. Its not really selfish or greedy, if its true which I believe him how can you ask a guy to wait to the end of the year to be with his family?


I think a lot of people just forget that these guys are human and they do indeed have life outside of basketball. Even if your main reason for playing is solely money thats their right to choose..not everyone who plays buys into all that legend/hero/role model that ESPN tries to crap down your throat.

Some of these guys do indeed think some things are more important than playing in the NBA and their action reflect it.

Demanding a trade is one of the few tools a player has who think he is getting a bad break. Sometimes if feels like you guys think that the team owns their lives when they sign up.[/QUOTE]

Ditto. There is nothing wrong with seeking happiness and wealth.
 
To each their own I guess. I'm a college prof, so I took a ton of years of school for a job that doesn't pay well at all relative to that and the amount of hours worked as I found something I both found interesting and meaningful.

So I don't jive much with the average selfish fuck who's all about money, fame etc. So I'm pretty cynical about pro sports and don't follow nearly as closely as I did in my youth.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']To each their own I guess. I'm a college prof, so I took a ton of years of school for a job that doesn't pay well at all relative to that and the amount of hours worked as I found something I both found interesting and meaningful.

So I don't jive much with the average selfish fuck who's all about money, fame etc. So I'm pretty cynical about pro sports and don't follow nearly as closely as I did in my youth.[/QUOTE]

Most of us don't. If I didn't love bball so much I would have quit watching it a long time ago or at least the day sprewell said he could feed his kids on 8 million dollars.
 
Yeah, that's around the time my interest declined greatly. I mainly focus on college bball, but even that's lost a lot of it's luster these days as there's just as much greed there. But at least it's not plagued by free agency, trade demands and all that stuff that can distract from the game in the pros.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Dmaul,

Come on brother. Everyone on the planet only cares about themselves and their family, the guy wanted to be closer to his family he saw a way to do it and he got it done. Its not really selfish or greedy, if its true which I believe him how can you ask a guy to wait to the end of the year to be with his family?


I think a lot of people just forget that these guys are human and they do indeed have life outside of basketball. Even if your main reason for playing is solely money thats their right to choose..not everyone who plays buys into all that legend/hero/role model that ESPN tries to crap down your throat.

Some of these guys do indeed think some things are more important than playing in the NBA and their action reflect it.

Demanding a trade is one of the few tools a player has who think he is getting a bad break. Sometimes if feels like you guys think that the team owns their lives when they sign up.[/QUOTE]

You're right they have lives.....no one forced them to sign a long term contract though. If you want the freedom to move around as you see fit, sign one year contracts.
 
Uhhh, you would receive just as much criticism for doing a bunch of 1 year deals than if you just left in a huff and they would actually hurt more teams then it would help. Especially if you had elite level talents...it would cost 20 million per season to sign them no team would have any money left to sign anyone else. That is a horrid suggestion but I see what your point was.

Firstly, I think many people forget that pro athlete preform a talent that only 1% of the entire human population can do. There are only 15 max slots on a NBA team, that 450 people. I have more people on my street than that. Out of those 450 there are like 20 who are even better than the rest. So a player should work their entire lives to become top 1 percent of the entire human population and then top 1 percent of the 450 in the nba to sell his entire soul to a team they feel isnt treating them right? If you are that good you can do what the hell you want. I am not saying screw everyone over but I am saying that 90 percent of the hate these guys get for their actions is completely undeserved.


Also I think its because a lot of people can not relate to the relationship in a talent driven field. Its the exact opposite of 99% of most business. Let me see if I can explain this so it makes sense. In most traditional jobs the most important person is the boss, everyone under the boss is just a cog working in the system. (Not that I am talking down to anyone with a real job just using an example) For the most part all you are doing is what someone higher than you is telling you to do.

In the NBA like TV/Film the most important person isnt the one signing checks its the talent. Period. No one goes to see a movie because Rich Hennestien hired a person to hire another person to hire another person to get George Lucas to direct a movie. No one cares about the guy in an office filing out paperwork they go see a movie because Marky Mark is in it. Its talent driven and everyone else is just a cog in the system. You can be one of those....uuuuhhh actors are just people if you want but no company hands a director 500 million without top flight talent in it.

Same with the NBA, unless you are Phil Jackson no one gives a shit about the coach, no one cares about his asst, no one cares about the GM or president or owner. People only care about the players. Period. That gives them large amounts of bargaining power it the likes that no normal person would ever get to have.


How many tears do you cry when a long time loyal player gets cut? Or the ones that dont even get a chance? None. So why should the players protect teams when it clear that they dont really care about players?
 
I would agree that it should go both ways.

Teams should have to honor contracts and not be able to cut people unless there are specific clauses the player agrees to include in the contract.

And players should honor their contracts and not be holding out, demanding trades etc.

As is, it's just a farce since neither side really has to honor the contract.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I would agree that it should go both ways.

Teams should have to honor contracts and not be able to cut people unless there are specific clauses the player agrees to include in the contract.

And players should honor their contracts and not be holding out, demanding trades etc.

As is, it's just a farce since neither side really has to honor the contract.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. I am just never sure why the split seems to be 90/10 solely against the players. For every Melo there is a Billups who for all intents and purposes has done a great job his entire career but is used primarily as a bargaining chip for teams. Or a Desean Jackson who yes is kinda out there but was making less than the long snapper, hell even Matt Forte who risk injury after injury and played his heart out and the Bears still did nothing to help him. For some guys it works out for others it doesnt...and if you feel that you are getting the short end of the stick I can only say do what you have to do. Screw the team and the fans.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I would agree that it should go both ways.

Teams should have to honor contracts and not be able to cut people unless there are specific clauses the player agrees to include in the contract.

And players should honor their contracts and not be holding out, demanding trades etc.

As is, it's just a farce since neither side really has to honor the contract.[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what I'm saying. I don't think anyone gets any criticism for signing one year contracts. If you want freedom to do whatever you want, just don't sign a long term contract. I don't like how NFL contracts are structured, because those contracts really only work out for the team, so I can agree that NFL contracts suck ass, but NBA contracts are great for players, they get paid regardless, so no, I don't agree with players demanding trades AFTER they knowingly signed a long term contract in basketball. Also, in Billups case, he should've included a no trade clause. However, for someone like Peyton Manning, I feel bad because he's going to get screwed out of his money because NFL contracts are crap.
 
I dont think you understand it would be impossible to afford any elite player on a year by year format. That works fine for a guy make less than 5 mill a year but I though (I might be wrong here) that we were talking about elite level players.

The cap hit would cripple any team that tried to sign then. Not even mentioning the media storm that would hit every single year of will he wont he. You cant build a team off of that format.
 
How would one year deals change anything on that front though?

There are current max deals, wouldn't one year deals be capped at whatever the current max contract rate per year is?

I agree about the distraction about staying or going every year though. That's the bigger issue.

So I don't agree agree about the 1 year contracts. I just think contracts should actually be binding. Both the player and team should have to honor the full deal unless the terms of the contract are violated some how (injury not related to basketball etc.).
 
[quote name='docvinh']This is exactly what I'm saying. I don't think anyone gets any criticism for signing one year contracts. If you want freedom to do whatever you want, just don't sign a long term contract. I don't like how NFL contracts are structured, because those contracts really only work out for the team, so I can agree that NFL contracts suck ass, but NBA contracts are great for players, they get paid regardless, so no, I don't agree with players demanding trades AFTER they knowingly signed a long term contract in basketball. Also, in Billups case, he should've included a no trade clause. However, for someone like Peyton Manning, I feel bad because he's going to get screwed out of his money because NFL contracts are crap.[/QUOTE]

Almost no one in the NBA has a no trade clause. I think kobe might be the only one.

OKC has gotten away with at least three walks in the last six minutes. I can understand why carlilse got himself ejected.
 
[quote name='renique46']Walks aren't called anymore otherwise Dirk and Lebron would have 8+turnovers a game[/QUOTE]

It's a crab dribble.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Holy shit have you guys seen Mamadou Ndiaye? 7 foot 5 high school kid. Watching him play is like watching 5 year olds against an adult. He seems kind weak by basketball standards but the kid is still young hopefully when he is in college he gets a chance to really work on his game.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highs...teen-mamadou-ndiaye-dominating-201311480.html[/QUOTE]

Jesus, must be nice to be that tall in high school.
 
Dallas' offense in the second half of games has been putrid the past two games. At least Dirk somewhat resembled Dirk. He still isn't right, but I think by the time the playoffs roll around the bullets should be in the chamber and ready to fire.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']Dallas' offense in the second half of games has been putrid the past two games. At least Dirk somewhat resembled Dirk. He still isn't right, but I think by the time the playoffs roll around the bullets should be in the chamber and ready to fire.[/QUOTE]

You started off this season by saying Dallas was a better team than last year, and then said give them 15 games after Miami destroyed them on Christmas, and then said it would take them 1/3 of the season to get it going, and now you've switched it to waiting until the playoffs. I'm not liking their chances this year.
 
[quote name='pitfallharry219']You started off this season by saying Dallas was a better team than last year, and then said give them 15 games after Miami destroyed them on Christmas, and then said it would take them 1/3 of the season to get it going, and now you've switched it to waiting until the playoffs. I'm not liking their chances this year.[/QUOTE]

That was more a comment on Dirk than the team as a whole, but I get where you are coming from. I am overly optimistic and think they will come back, even if it takes them longer to do so than I thought it would. I didn't expect Dirk to look as bad as he has, Lamar to be super shitty, and Jason Kidd to miss something like a third of the games this season (and play terribly when he does play).

That said, the problem is that they look really close. They have three losses from buzzer beaters, and they haven't had Dirk closing out games like he has in the past. The two man game between him and Terry hasn't worked because of Dirk's knee/conditioning and Kidd hasn't gotten Dirk the ball on the elbow like he likes when he has a smaller defender on him.
 
Since I am not a fan of one team but of the sport itself I am ready for a new era of basketball. Screw the Lakers, screw the Cs, screw Dallas.

Lets see OKC....lets see the Grizz, I want the new Packers/Bulls/Heat/ Clippers 76ers...etc.

I am tired of all these old ass stars with these old ass teams. Kobe, Dirk, KG, Perice, Wade to a lesser extant cant do another thing that I can give two shits about. This includes the 55+ aged refs. I am ready for the entire NBA to get flipped.
 
[quote name='kube00']So who's gonna go in the West OKC/Dal/LAC? Who can beat the Heat, right now it seems anyone can.[/QUOTE]

Clips look good so far, adding K-Mart to the front line rotation will be nice for them. Billups has worked out better then I thought he would there.
 
[quote name='docvinh']Clips look good so far, adding K-Mart to the front line rotation will be nice for them. Billups has worked out better then I thought he would there.[/QUOTE]

If the Clips add JR Smith they will have a legitimate shot of winning it.
 
[quote name='kill3r7']If the Clips add JR Smith they will have a legitimate shot of winning it.[/QUOTE]

Losing Billups is really going to hurt. If he had turned his shooting around the Clips would have been unreal.
 
If any team signs J.R.Smith they have a 50/50 shot. That guy is the original prototype of streaky. He can shoot his way to a 45 point victory and the next day kill his team by going 1-30 and somehow manage to get negative points.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']If any team signs J.R.Smith they have a 50/50 shot. That guy is the original prototype of streaky. He can shoot his way to a 45 point victory and the next day kill his team by going 1-30 and somehow manage to get negative points.[/QUOTE]

This. Plus he's a black hole when it comes to the ball, once it gets to him, it's not coming back out.
 
Jalen Rose is killing Skip today on First take, both logically and soundly. Finally a black guy who doesnt scream and sound retarded like Stephen A to kill the crazy overrated Skip.
 
What a fucking joke, Steve Nash and Dirk get a reserve spot when they are in no way all stars this year over lowry or rudy gay how pathetic get the fuck outta here.
 
[quote name='renique46']What a fucking joke, Steve Nash and Dirk get a reserve spot when they are in no way all stars this year over lowry or rudy gay how pathetic get the fuck outta here.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, pretty sad. You can make an argument that Lowry has only done it for one year, but there's no reason that Gay shouldn't be on there.
 
[quote name='renique46']What a fucking joke, Steve Nash and Dirk get a reserve spot when they are in no way all stars this year over lowry or rudy gay how pathetic get the fuck outta here.[/QUOTE]

Nash is leading the league in assists and has better stats than Rondo and similar to CP3. I wouldn't say that pick was a complete bust.

As far as Dirk, yeah that pick was solely based on his career resume.
 
Lin won't keep playing like this forever, especially when his shots get taken away by Anthony and Stoudemire. A shame, really, because he's a lot of fun to watch and he seems like a good kid.
 
He'll come back down to reality after the Offensive Blackhole, aka Melo, comes back. In the meantime, Amare might become rejuvenated when he comes back. Lin should be a good PNR partner for him. I picked Lin off FA in my fantasy league after his second big game and have been rewarded for it, but I don't think this will continue (and it'll probably bite me in the ass too).
 
Throwing Amare under the bus is uncalled for. Look at how well he played in phoenix. Melo is the damn black hole that is going to kill them. Donnie Walsh looks smarter every time the Knicks lose with him on the floor.
 
Amare is one of the most overrated players in the NBA. I like him, but the Knicks went out of their way to get him, as if he was amongst the elite in the league. He isn't. Defensively, he is absolutely suspect, but it gets covered up by the blocks he gets on guards. I've seen him get abused way too many times by big men. Offensively, he can abuse mismatches all day, but against other great players, he can be completely botted up. Him and Lin might make a good combo. Him and Felton were both having great years until the trade last year...

I would love, love, love if they could trade Melo, but obviously, it's isn't happening. No one wants him, and they gave away too much to get him to just give up already.
 
At the end of the day the Knicks will still be the Knicks

Aren't they pretty much capped to the point where they wont even be able to keep lin even if keeps playing like this LOL

when the knicks win they still lose :lol:
 
The Knicks have an insane amount of money tied up in Amare and Melo...again...why they should have never traded for Melo. With every passing day, the realization of just how awful that trade was sinks in more and more.
 
Dude, the trade wasnt that bad. Lets stop with the bullshit unfounded hate on Melo and get down to the real problem.

You have a shit team with a shit coach that has done nothing but try to cram a square peg in a round hole. It was clear that he needed a PG but then you let Billups walk. Why? What was the point of that? You then clearly miss the mark on Lin (you sent him to the NBDL league for a while) so there is another fail.

He also clearly doesnt have a handle on making an offense that fits his team. He is busy cramming that no defense run all over offense that doesnt work. Grow some balls develop a new gameplan, convince melo and stat that they need to run it. Period.

This bullshit crybaby act has got to stop...."awwww I am sooooo tired of having 2 of the top 15 players in the league on my team....waaaaaaaaa poor us."

Its a lot more than just Melo, there is a lot of things wrong with the Knicks primarily letting a veteran championship clutch player in Billups walk.....I mean hell dont let one of the best vets walk and then bitch about how your teams offense doesnt work.
 
The trade still shows it was terrible.

Denver: 16-12 (5.5 games back in the West)
NY prior to Lin given his shot: 8-15

Amare and Melo are far from top 15 in my opinion. You have to play defense to be considered that high.

Fun Fact: NY is better without Melo/Amare than they are with them. 4-0.
 
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