Resident Evil 5, N'Gai Croal and the ugly reaction

doc_zaius

doc_zaius

CAGiversary!
N'Gai Croal was interviewed for a really well reasoned and considered piece on Resident Evil 5, it's context and the reaction it is bound to encounter in regards to race relations.


I originally saw it posted on Kotaku, I read the post and then I read the original piece. I thought Croal had a lot of really good things to say about the subject and it made me think about the difference between American Cultural history and how it relates to development in another country (Japan) where they are not PERSONALLY aware of that history's impact.


Then I read the reaction on Kotaku......



and it depressed the hell out of me, lots of ignorance, defensiveness and immaturity....it made me wonder if gamers in the majority can really be so unreasoning and ridiculous.


I encourage you to take a look at Croal's original interview

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008...nt-evil-5-trailer-this-imagery-has-a-history/



and the Kotaku response and see what you think.

http://kotaku.com/378535/clearly-no-one-black-worked-on-this-game
 
[quote name='doc_zaius']Then I read the reaction on Kotaku......



and it depressed the hell out of me, lots of ignorance, defensiveness and immaturity....it made me wonder if gamers in the majority can really be so unreasoning and ridiculous.[/quote]Nah, just gamers in Kotaku's little corner of the web.
 
I really like N'Gai, and I usually respect his views and opinions, but this is just preposterous. Just because you're shooting Africans in a game, doesn't make it racist.
 
I don't know. I really can't see how Capcom is being racist. If some zombie virus was spread in a small african village, wouldn't that mean that there would be zombie african people? I guess there is something N’Gai sees that I do not. If this game took place in India and Chris was killing Indian people, I would have no problem as long as it was done such that it made sense and not just for the hell of killing Indian people (I am Indian btw).
 
[quote name='doc_zaius']He's NOT saying it's racist. Read the article.[/quote]


Yeah, but he's still saying that it's "racially insensitive", and even worse, he blames the common gamer for not being outraged about it.
 
Does it matter? You can be black, white, Asian or Spaniard and I won't care. If you're a zombie or infected with a zombie like virus, I'm totally murdering your fuckin ass.
 
"There was a lot of imagery in that trailer that dovetailed with classic racist imagery"

I didn't see Chris Redfield spraying black zombies with a giant firehose in that trailer.
 
Just finished reading the article and its funny because that was the last thing I thought when watching the videos. I can kind of see where N'Gai is basing his opinion on but how is this game, "racially insensitive" just because it takes place in an african american location??? Its not like the game is portraying them with fried chicken and watermelon in their hands. If anything it sounds like N'Gai is basically just playing the race card even though there's no sign of any racism in the game.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']http://www.blackprof.com/?p=2018

There are no more racially charged images that are based on classic dehumanizing notions of ethnicity in this day and age.

Nope. No siree.

I'm obviously not serious about that.
[/quote]What does this have to do with Resident Evil 5? Zombie LeBron James? That would be sick.
 
The point I'm trying to make is that the Vogue cover, viewed by itself, may not be construed as racist or having an origin in racist imagery. Coupled with the other picture, however, the similarities are *far* too stark to be mere coincidence, no?

The point, then, becomes that "I don't see any racism in it" isn't really a suitable way of denying the existence of something as being or not being racist.

That's all.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']http://www.blackprof.com/?p=2018

There are no more racially charged images that are based on classic dehumanizing notions of ethnicity in this day and age.

Nope. No siree.

I'm obviously not serious about that.
[/QUOTE]

A race-hustler article. Yeah, that's what this topic needs. :roll:
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']
I didn't see Chris Redfield spraying black zombies with a giant firehose in that trailer.[/quote]

The unlimited pressure water hose is only available after finishing the game under 2.5 hours with an S rank.
 
His argument here is pretty weak. It's almost like he's fighting for black zombie rights.

N'Gai Croal said:
They’re hidden in shadows, you can barely see their eyes, and the perspective of the trailer is not even someone who’s coming to help the people. It’s like they’re all dangerous; they all need to be killed. It’s not even like one cute African — or Haitian or Caribbean — child could be saved. They’re all dangerous men, women and children. They all have to be killed.
Click to expand...
 
I won't try and deny that there isn't still institutional racism in society today. That'd be really ridiculous. However, I failed to see how that trailer is made to portray ordinary people of African descent in a poor light. What I do see is a run down, impoverished community that is in some third world country who have been afflicted by a virus that makes them have an extreme bloodlust for those who are uninfected.
 
Originally Posted by N'Gai Croal
They’re hidden in shadows, you can barely see their eyes, and the perspective of the trailer is not even someone who’s coming to help the people. It’s like they’re all dangerous; they all need to be killed. It’s not even like one cute African — or Haitian or Caribbean — child could be saved. They’re all dangerous men, women and children. They all have to be killed.
Click to expand...
Of course they all have to be killed; they're fucking zombies.
 
I think you guys are missing the point. What N'Gai is saying is that obviously no one on the Japanese team understood the historical back story that might make their game appear racially insensitive (this is the same culture that thought PoPo was a reasonable character in Dragon Ball Z afterall). What bothers him is that gamers in this country don't see the overt dehumanization of the black victims in the trailer. They aren't infected when Redfield first arrived, yet they are still viewed negatively. When I watched the trailer I sort of reasoned that it must be the same as the Spanish townsfolk in Resident Evil 4 wherein they were all brainwashed and/or infected by a lesser infection of some kind by their village leader - or something along those lines. If a story like that isn't present in the game at the beginning, then there should be reason to worry about racial insensitivity. I'll reserve judgment until I actually play the game.
 
Yeah yeah, racial insensitivity and all that. I don't care. I'm more interested in playing RE5 than upholding a "moral standard" by bitching about it.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']Yeah yeah, racial insensitivity and all that. I don't care. I'm more interested in playing RE5 than upholding a "moral standard" by bitching about it.[/QUOTE]

word
 
[quote name='insertcleverthing']I think you guys are missing the point. What N'Gai is saying is that obviously no one on the Japanese team understood the historical back story that might make their game appear racially insensitive (this is the same culture that thought PoPo was a reasonable character in Dragon Ball Z afterall). What bothers him is that gamers in this country don't see the overt dehumanization of the black victims in the trailer. They aren't infected when Redfield first arrived, yet they are still viewed negatively. When I watched the trailer I sort of reasoned that it must be the same as the Spanish townsfolk in Resident Evil 4 wherein they were all brainwashed and/or infected by a lesser infection of some kind by their village leader - or something along those lines. If a story like that isn't present in the game at the beginning, then there should be reason to worry about racial insensitivity. I'll reserve judgment until I actually play the game.[/quote]

People need to realize that this is a HORROR game. Having a bunch of cute kids running around kicking a soccer ball and laughing would kill the kind of suspenseful mood Capcom is trying to create in the game.

Explain to me this - what zombie-related movie or video game have you ever seen that doesn't dehumanize any of its victims no matter what their race, creed or culture is? That's the entire point of the zombie game - it dehumanizes people!

I'd be interested to see if this game were to star a black man killing a bunch of rednecks in Tennessee if N'Gai would be saying the same kinds of things. I highly doubt it.
 
Here is my take on racism...there are fucking douchebags on this planet and there are really cool people on this planet. I prefer to hate the douchebags and hang with the cool people. I have friends of just about every race. So if I'm racist its against douchebags. Looking for hidden meanings in a video game just seems like a bunch of horse shit. As for the "imagery" do we have to go through every World War II based game and look at the history there? There is history everywhere...the key is to not to let it repeat itself.
 
The music that they’re using in the trailer is very reminiscent of the music used in Black Hawk Down which was set in Africa — Somalia. That actually was one of the things that was most disturbing because it sort of had a feeling as like, “Wow, what research did this team do? Did they only watch Black Hawk Down and give it this kind of vibe?”
Click to expand...

I thought the trailer was partially evoking Black Hawk Down as well.

Anyway, I sure hope Capcom did lots of historical research for this game. The last thing I'd want is for them to do is to use their imagination in a game about superhuman secret agents using futuristic weapons to single handedly fight off wave after wave of highly aggressive zombie hordes.
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']People need to realize that this is a HORROR game. Having a bunch of cute kids running around kicking a soccer ball and laughing would kill the kind of suspenseful mood Capcom is trying to create in the game.

Explain to me this - what zombie-related movie or video game have you ever seen that doesn't dehumanize any of its victims no matter what their race, creed or culture is? That's the entire point of the zombie game - it dehumanizes people!

I'd be interested to see if this game were to star a black man killing a bunch of rednecks in Tennessee if N'Gai would be saying the same kinds of things. I highly doubt it.[/quote]
True.

-Which is why I'm reserving judgment until I play the game. I doubt Capcom would make the inhabitants so negatively portrayed at the beginning on purpose unless there was a reason, like the aformentioned they are brainwashed/already infected motif. That explanation would work and put the racial stuff to rest (for me at least).
 
[quote name='bardockkun']Does it matter? You can be black, white, Asian or Spaniard and I won't care. If you're a zombie or infected with a zombie like virus, I'm totally murdering your fuckin ass.[/quote]

Thank you, I agree completely.

I've never heard of this guy, but he seems like an idiot. I know that this has been said and will continue to be said, but it's a fucking game. It's set in Africa. It's not like you're running through some town killing black people because they're black.

You are in Africa.
There are a lot of black people in Africa.
Therefore, if a zombie virus escapes in Africa, what ethnicity do you think that you would be killing most?

Black people.
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']People need to realize that this is a HORROR game. Having a bunch of cute kids running around kicking a soccer ball and laughing would kill the kind of suspenseful mood Capcom is trying to create in the game.[/quote]

It's pretty interesting because one of the first big zombie movies, "Night of the Living Dead" handled race and social commentary so effectively.

But Res Evil has always been more about b-movie scares then any message (I mean - save the president's daughter? Again? Seriously?
 
[quote name='bardockkun']Does it matter? You can be black, white, Asian or Spaniard and I won't care. If you're a zombie or infected with a zombie like virus, I'm totally murdering your fuckin ass.[/quote]

Anti-Zombiest!!
 
so far it seems like 80% of the posters in here have missed the point so far.

but I'm encouraged by some of the posts, better ratio than Kotaku so far.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']The point I'm trying to make is that the Vogue cover, viewed by itself, may not be construed as racist or having an origin in racist imagery. Coupled with the other picture, however, the similarities are *far* too stark to be mere coincidence, no?

The point, then, becomes that "I don't see any racism in it" isn't really a suitable way of denying the existence of something as being or not being racist.

That's all.[/quote]

nicely put, it's amazing how many similar the situation is. and the reaction.
http://www.antiquetrader.com/mark/content/binary/KingKong.jpg



and for the record, King Kong is my hero.
 
Capcom should just make it so you can adjust the color of the zombie skin. Kill any color zombies you want then.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']The point I'm trying to make is that the Vogue cover, viewed by itself, may not be construed as racist or having an origin in racist imagery. Coupled with the other picture, however, the similarities are *far* too stark to be mere coincidence, no?

The point, then, becomes that "I don't see any racism in it" isn't really a suitable way of denying the existence of something as being or not being racist.

That's all.[/quote]I guess I never saw the RE5 trailer in which all this racist iconography was being tossed around. I just think it's pretty telling that, for as long as games have been around, there really hasn't been a game set in an African environment, that features, in a prominent role, people of that heritage. And yet, there have been TONS of games in which Asians were the bad guys, Germans, Russians, Arabs, etc, and it was never as much of a racial factor, at least not in the US, as it is right now. I know I am going to come off sounding like a huge douchebag here, but doesn't it seem like African Americans pull the race card quicker than any other minority group?
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']I guess I never saw the RE5 trailer in which all this racist iconography was being tossed around. I just think it's pretty telling that, for as long as games have been around, there really hasn't been a game set in an African environment, that features, in a prominent role, people of that heritage. And yet, there have been TONS of games in which Asians were the bad guys, Germans, Russians, Arabs, etc, and it was never as much of a racial factor, at least not in the US, as it is right now. I know I am going to come off sounding like a huge douchebag here, but doesn't it seem like African Americans pull the race card quicker than any other minority group?[/quote]



you're right, that's pretty douchebag-ish. those black folks always pulling that race card, why can't they get over it already?!
 
[quote name='doc_zaius']you're right, that's pretty douchebag-ish. those black folks always pulling that race card, why can't they get over it already?![/quote]Typical response I expected to get. I'm not saying they should get over anything. I am just saying that it seems like it took no time at all for someone to see "Game in Africa + killing villagers = automatic racism!" I suppose they are going with the "This game represents these people as evil, mysterious savages!" angle. Well, that's pretty much what every RE games has depicted it's zombie/villager enemies as.

And N'Gai is so full of shit. "I'm not saying it's racist, but..." Gimme a break. Either come out and admit it or don't, stop trying to skirt around it and try to play both sides.
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']Typical response I expected to get. I'm not saying they should get over anything. I am just saying that it seems like it took no time at all for someone to see "Game in Africa + killing villagers = automatic racism!" I suppose they are going with the "This game represents these people as evil, mysterious savages!" angle. Well, that's pretty much what every RE games has depicted it's zombie/villager enemies as.

And N'Gai is so full of shit. "I'm not saying it's racist, but..." Gimme a break. Either come out and admit it or don't, stop trying to skirt around it and try to play both sides.[/quote]

I think it's about time African Americans did. The truth of the matter is there are no African Americans living today who have ever been enslaved for a single day like their ancestors were in the past.

There are countless other races who have experienced much worse crimes against them (American Indians, Jews, etc.), and you don't hear them making ridiculous claims of racism any time they're race is involved in any sort of potentially questionable material.

Our society is never going to get over the white vs. black issue until we stop blowing everything out of proportion.
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']I think it's about time African Americans did. The truth of the matter is there are no African Americans living today who have ever been enslaved for a single day like their ancestors were in the past.

There are countless other races who have experienced much worse crimes against them (American Indians, Jews, etc.), and you don't hear them making ridiculous claims of racism any time they're race is involved in any sort of potentially questionable material.

Our society is never going to get over the white vs. black issue until we stop blowing everything out of proportion.[/quote]
Wow. -Just wow.

I hope you reread that post and realize the implications/tone...
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']I think it's about time African Americans did. The truth of the matter is there are no African Americans living today who have ever been enslaved for a single day like their ancestors were in the past.

There are countless other races who have experienced much worse crimes against them (American Indians, Jews, etc.), and you don't hear them making ridiculous claims of racism any time they're race is involved in any sort of potentially questionable material.

Our society is never going to get over the white vs. black issue until we stop blowing everything out of proportion.[/QUOTE]

...
 
[quote name='insertcleverthing']Wow. -Just wow.

I hope you reread that post and realize the implications/tone...[/quote]

I didn't mean it to offend anyone. I just think, in general, we need to move past the wrongs of the past before we can truly become one nation.
 
One thing that hasn't been mentioned, is why are all the villagers dark skinned? There is such thing as a light skinned African. Just a though.....
 
this racist bullshit better not delay the fuking game. That's all I care about. No matter what people are going to get up tight about anything. That's the day and age we live in. Oh lord I'm offended so it's either time to pull

A. Race card
or
B. Sue the company for some bullshit reason
 
ngai is right in a way. im still on board for a zombie game in africa but aside from that one african being attacked by other africans all the africans look zombified and or dangerous. not to say the spanish folk in re4 didnt all look great but there is a difference. but long story short it is just a trailer and whose to say what will come up later. its cool to finally read something from someone that isnt your usual bash all games bs. the guy has his reservations but hes still go an open mind a rarity to find in this day and age. i do hope theres more to the story then whats in the trailer and that they mix up the people types more since africa has a wide assortment of types and looks and shades of black folk.


thats always been a problem ive had with resident evil games they need more variety in enemy types. its kind of annoying killng the same 2 or 3 zombies over and over.
 
[quote name='akilshohen']One thing that hasn't been mentioned, is why are all the villagers dark skinned? There is such thing as a light skinned African. Just a though.....[/quote]


yeah like blacks in america there are diff skin tones in africa as well. like i said in my post that is something i hope they correct.
 
[quote name='lokizz']yeah like blacks in america there are diff skin tones in africa as well. like i said in my post that is something i hope they correct.[/quote]

Who the hell cares what shade of black they are? All I'll care about in the game is that they're fuckin' zombies trying to kill me and my roundhouse kick knows no prejudice!
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']Who the hell cares what shade of black they are? All I'll care about in the game is that they're fuckin' zombies trying to kill me and my roundhouse kick knows no prejudice![/quote]


if you dont get it you never will and i wouldnt waste my time trying to help you understand. he asked a question i awnsered it if you dont care then why post a reply to a response to someone elses question that doesnt concern you ?
 
Well game after game we killed whitey and there was no problem. We killed Spaniards, no problem. Now we go to Africa and the racism starts.

Maybe just maybe instead of worrying about a video game he should be out in the REAL world trying to stop black men from killing other black men at alarming rates.
 
sigh...now every other person is attempting badass posts instead of cheapass posts (ie: "idc if they black, im still gonna fuckin kill the zombies").ughh its gettin old....it was only cool the first time when it made sense
 
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