RPG Thread X will never be localized because you'd rather buy another generic FPS

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BoF IV (and III for that matter) is definitely one of the most delightful old-school JRPGs on the PS1. I still actually have my copy, or else I'd be picking it up on PSN for sure (and I may still).
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']My favorite is when you come to a fork in a dungeon, and you do a bit of reverse psychology to try and figure out which path you're supposed to take to make progress, and then make sure to stay away from that one until you've checked everything else.[/QUOTE]

This this this.
 
Sometimes it's more fun than others, depending on how many there are (too many is annoying) and how hard they are to get to (sometimes you have to walk waaaay around to get to an NPC). But FF1 trained me to talk to everyone in the village way back in the day, and I'm still in the habit.
 
[quote name='coolz481']For all the complaints about FF13's linearity though, I wonder how many had sat down and played 7 recently - even though there is a world map, it is pretty much point-to-point all the way through, and the 'dungeons' aren't complicated in the least. Of course, there is a wealth of side-quest stuff too (a big difference) and a more interesting story.[/QUOTE]
Really? It's one of the few RPGs I know of where an entire town is optional (Gongaga, which I had somehow skipped during my first playthrough). Otherwise, it's no more or less linear than several other JRPGs.
 
The "linear" complaint is really a misnomer. All Final Fantasy games are extremely linear-- there is one set plot and one way to progress it at any time. The difference was that in previous games, you could progress the plot at your own pace, explore, and engage in optional content and sidequests if you wanted to. It didn't make the main game any less linear but it did make the world seem more open and interactive. In Final Fantasy XIII, for 90% of the main storyline there is literally nothing you can do in the game world except advance to the next cutscene. You can't even really grind if you want to because of the Crystarium caps in each chapter. That's what the complaint really is.
 
Grandia was a great game when I played it, but I got stuck and quit. One of these days when I dig through the backlog, I'll go back to it.
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']The "linear" complaint is really a misnomer. All Final Fantasy games are extremely linear-- there is one set plot and one way to progress it at any time. The difference was that in previous games, you could progress the plot at your own pace, and engage in optional content and sidequests if you wanted to. It didn't make the main game any less linear but it did make the world seem more open and interactive. In Final Fantasy XIII, for 90% of the main storyline there is literally nothing you can do in the game world except advance to the next cutscene. You can't even really grind if you want to because of the Crystarium caps in each chapter. That's what the complaint really is.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head with that one. One of my main issues with the lack of towns is that it threw the pacing off for me. For a 40+ hour game, I need a bit of downtime, so to speak. I tend to like RPGs more if they have a good sense of adventure, rather than a lot of combat and cutscenes. Also, I feel like towns (and/or a world map) can help flesh out a game world if done right. So while I totally get that some people might be into the streamlined battles->cutscene->battles->cutscene structure of FFXIII, I just found it repetetive. Maybe if I liked the characters I would have been more into it though.
 
[quote name='coolz481']
For all the complaints about FF13's linearity though, I wonder how many had sat down and played 7 recently - even though there is a world map, it is pretty much point-to-point all the way through, and the 'dungeons' aren't complicated in the least.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, this line of thinking is a result of nostalgia. All FF games are pretty shallow in the freedom department.
 
I'm seriously thinking about going back to Resonance of Fate, I enjoyed it when I played it a couple of months ago, but I didn't have the time for it and I just left it (I believe I was in Chapter 5). If I do go back to it, I'm probably just going to start all over again
 
[quote name='Japanese Dorito']I'm seriously thinking about going back to Resonance of Fate, I enjoyed it when I played it a couple of months ago, but I didn't have the time for it and I just left it (I believe I was in Chapter 5). If I do go back to it, I'm probably just going to start all over again[/QUOTE]

Yeah that's a pretty hard game to get back into with the battle system being complex as it is.
 
Didn't we just agree not to discuss FFXIII anymore? We can't be fixed! :)

For the record, I had little to no problem with the lack of towns or with the linearity. Like Ryu said, FF games have always been pretty linear. I'd say those things counted for about 1% of my dissatisfaction with FFXIII. 9% was for the fact that the story was a bit too pleased with itself for my taste (though I'll grant that I didn't play enough to be a qualified judge). 90% was just hating the battle system with a burning passion, and there's no addressing that for me.
 
Ugh I swear Edward is one of the dullest characters in FF history (much less FFIV). I'm on his Chapter in After Years and can't stand it for more then 15minutes at a time.
 
[quote name='Hell Monkey']Ugh I swear Edward is one of the dullest characters in FF history (much less FFIV). I'm on his Chapter in After Years and can't stand it for more then 15minutes at a time.[/QUOTE]

Edward was a cruel joke.

As a kid, the first time I got to Damycan, I was like
"Man, i just lost Tellah, but at least
I get a sweet new character".

Then, I went out to fight a little bit to level him up a bit, and he hit like a weenie and had no HP. I leveled him up a bit and moved on the
Antlion
cave.. where he promptly got beat down by a turtle and started to hide every round. I had no idea what was going on at the time.. "EDWARD! use potions on the other people! Stop running away!" Damn Edward.

When I lost him
on the boat
that same play-through, my first thought was "hurray, no more Edward!", not
Oh God, the rest of my party!
Later in the game, when I found him again, my first thought was "Shit, do I have to get Edward back again?!".

Then, when he did NOT rejoin, I was incredibly relieved.

Edward felt like a poison in the party - he was the epitome of weakness, and having him was a liability. I HATED that guy.
 
Yeah, Edward sucks. Usually in RPGs you expect that terrible party member to show up later super over-powered. Nope.

The only good thing he ever did was crawl 5 feet out of bed and play a few notes on the harp. That was his contribution. :)
 
[quote name='bvharris']Yeah, Edward sucks. Usually in RPGs you expect that terrible party member to show up later super over-powered. Nope.

The only good thing he ever did was crawl 5 feet out of bed and play a few notes on the harp. That was his contribution. :)[/QUOTE]

Lol I don't remember that at all. I should probably play FF4 again. Guess I will after FFTA2 (doing endgame, and the towers are pissing me off).
 
[quote name='themaster20000']Yeah that's a pretty hard game to get back into with the battle system being complex as it is.[/QUOTE]

I know, this is the main reason why I just want to start all over again, so I can get adjusted to the battle system again
 
[quote name='Japanese Dorito']I know, this is the main reason why I just want to start all over again, so I can get adjusted to the battle system again[/QUOTE]
Does anyone remember how complicated the battle system was in Ar tonelico? I played the first few hours of that game and then put it away, I'm thinking of going back to it in a bit but I remember the battle system had some tricks to it and I don't want to be lost. I don't really want to start over either though. :p
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']Does anyone remember how complicated the battle system was in Ar tonelico? I played the first few hours of that game and then put it away, I'm thinking of going back to it in a bit but I remember the battle system had some tricks to it and I don't want to be lost. I don't really want to start over either though. :p[/QUOTE]

I don't remember any tricks to the game, all I remember is having characters use their pea shooters a bunch until your songstress could launch the spirit bomb and kill everything.
 
I hate RPGs with complicated combat systems, I wish they would stay basic like FF or Lost Odyssey, so I would feel right at home when I start a new game ;)
 
I mainly play RPGs for the story, so combat isn't a big issue for me. I like it when they tweak up a system, but just a whole new combat system like RoF's isn't what I'm looking for in a game.
 
[quote name='icebeast']I don't remember any tricks to the game, all I remember is having characters use their pea shooters a bunch until your songstress could launch the spirit bomb and kill everything.[/QUOTE]

Yeah that was how I did it all. AR Tonelico's battle system was pretty freaking easy.
 
The faster and simpler the better, I say. That's why I like games like FF 12 and 13 and the Persona games where I can let the AI do some or all of the heavy lifting. :lol: Wild ARMs 5 was another (relatively) recent favorite of mine.

I wouldn't touch something like Resonance of Fate with a ten foot pole.
 
Unless it's a Tales game I really do perfer some variation of a traditional turm-based system. To be honest the "Press Turn Battle System" is my favorite. Battles are quick, stategy is involved, exploiting weaknesses is always fun. Digital Devil Saga's version of this might be my favorite.
 
[quote name='Rodimus']Unless it's a Tales game I really do perfer some variation of a traditional turm-based system. To be honest the "Press Turn Battle System" is my favorite. Battles are quick, stategy is involved, exploiting weaknesses is always fun. Digital Devil Saga's version of this might be my favorite.[/QUOTE]

I love the PTBS. It makes the combat in the SMT games just a ton of fun. Even the slightly simplified version in Persona 3 and 4 is still a blast - simple and elegant.

And I agree with your general point too, 95% of the time I will take a good turn-based battle system over the alternative.
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']The faster and simpler the better, I say. That's why I like games like FF 12 and 13 and the Persona games where I can let the AI do some or all of the heavy lifting. :lol: Wild ARMs 5 was another (relatively) recent favorite of mine.[/QUOTE]
I'm not a fan of AI-heavy turn-based RPGs, but I do agree that Wild ARMs 5 has a great battle system. It encourages strategy, plus the pacing is good.

My current favorite is the one in Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter. It's the most realistic turn-based system I've ever seen in a traditional JRPG.
 
[quote name='blueshinra']
My current favorite is the one in Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter. It's the most realistic turn-based system I've ever seen in a traditional JRPG.[/QUOTE]

I LOVED BoF3 - it's still one of my favorite PS1 RPGs, I felt 4 was still a solid game but I just could not get into Dragon Quarter at all. Something about it just felt really off to me.

I think i can pick it up for like $5 now... maybe I'll give it another try.

I always thought that the Grandia series had some of the best combat in the genre. Even if the series really started to falter after 2 (starting with 2, if you count the terrible PS2 port of the game) but the combat remained stellar.
 
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most battle systems are disgustingly easy and boring anyway. it all sounds so complicated but it's really "mash attack, cure when damaged."

RoF is complicated, yes, but it's still easy except if you try to do stuff beyond your level. it's also not as freaky as people make it out to be. i haven't played at all since it came out and i can still understand it.
 
Anyone played enough of Breath of Fire IV to post a few impressions? I've been looking at some gameplay video and I'm getting excited.
 
Just judging from gameplay videos (Never played the game myself), seems like a solid RPG and I like the way everything looks in the game (like the anime looking characters and such)
 
[quote name='hankmecrankme']I hated Dragon Quarter.

Love the OST though.

Pretty much my same opinion of Kingdom Hearts.[/QUOTE]

I remember liking Kingdom Hearts fondly back in the day, so I decided to pick up Birth by Sleep for the PSP

And after playing it for a little bit, I remembered, I was 8 when I played Kingdom Hearts
 
[quote name='momouchi']Played Nier for a bit last night and I really like it so far. The combat system is not overly complicated but also doesn't get boring. Everything looks great and the dialog is hilarious! When I first saw the Shades, they kind of reminded me of the Gnosis from Xenosaga.[/QUOTE]

I broke the seal on mine a couple days ago. Got to the point where I was killing some sheep and put it away. I should probably give it more time, but I decided I won't be playing it anytime soon.

The Shades, and the game in general, reminded me more of Ico than anything.
 
[quote name='Rodimus']Anyone played enough of Breath of Fire IV to post a few impressions? I've been looking at some gameplay video and I'm getting excited.[/QUOTE]

Haven't played it in years, but from what I remember it was a very well done, though fairly standard JRPG. I really enjoyed the almost Wild Arms-ness of using party member's abilities outside of combat.

For me the best part was the graphics. Beautiful 2D, and drawn and well animated sprites on surprisingly (for PS1) decent 3d backgrounds. I also really enjoyed the story, though it's nothing spectacular it is well done. There's an almost FF8 Squal/Laguna mechanic at points that I also really enjoyed.
 
[quote name='icebeast']I don't remember any tricks to the game, all I remember is having characters use their pea shooters a bunch until your songstress could launch the spirit bomb and kill everything.[/QUOTE]

This, keep the meat shields alive until the nuke from orbit option is available.
 
I'm sorry but fuck Resonance of Fate and everyone who says good things about it. It's shit. Just because some niche JRPG has a decent concept working for its battle system does not make the game "alright." It does not deserve your support, stop trying to give it the "acceptable" award.

RoF is an empty shell of an RPG. On paper I could speak well of its combat, but really, what is an RPG's combat if you don't care about anything else? Why am I trudging through all these generic enemies in this lifeless world -- oh right, this artist dude wants me to find a pretty female mannequin. Gee I'm just enthralled by what's going on, especially with the one cutscene every 2 hours that's nothing more than a cute comedy sketch. It's kind of like, "oh this combat is pretty cool," but then you enter a dungeon and it's just the grind of grinds -- like let's just put a bunch of rooms and fill it with the same enemies because players should work before having fun. And there are a lot of other RPGs that do this and are still better than RoF. Why? Because you know, there's an actual world, a story, and characters -- and everything doesn't look like ass. Also there's something called pacing, but if you're marketing to JRPG zombies then perhaps it doesn't matter.

I could name so many other games that have great combat and everything else -- so who's bored enough to play through a game like this? I bought it because I heard so much praise, because it looked steam-punk and it was a JRPG revolving around using small firearms. But all I got was the most lazily put together RPG I've seen this gen, like they just got around a conference table and said, "well fuck it."

Have you guys ran around a hex-dungeon in RoF? Who the hell thought that was enjoyable? It just goes to show that even with good combat, you can still torture players with too much of it, especially in a barren dungeon of empty hex spaces.
 
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[quote name='panzerfaust']I'm sorry but fuck Resonance of Fate and everyone who says good things about it. It's shit. Just because some niche JRPG has a decent concept working for its battle system does not make the game "alright." It does not deserve your support, stop trying to give it the "acceptable" award.

RoF is an empty shell of an RPG. On paper I could speak well of its combat, but really, what is an RPG's combat if you don't care about anything else? Why am I trudging through all these generic enemies in this lifeless world -- oh right, this artist dude wants me to find a pretty female mannequin. Gee I'm just enthralled by what's going on, especially with the one cutscene every 2 hours that's nothing more than a cute comedy sketch. It's kind of like, "oh this combat is pretty cool," but then you enter a dungeon and it's just the grind of grinds -- like let's just put a bunch of rooms and fill it with the same enemies because players should work before having fun. And there are a lot of other RPGs that do this and are still better than RoF. Why? Because you know, there's an actual world, a story, and characters -- and everything doesn't look like ass. Also there's something called pacing, but if you're marketing to JRPG zombies then perhaps it doesn't matter.

I could name so many other games that have great combat and everything else -- so who's bored enough to play through a game like this? I bought it because I heard so much praise, because it looked steam-punk and it was a JRPG revolving around using small firearms. But all I got was the most lazily put together RPG I've seen this gen, like they just got around a conference table and said, "well fuck it."

Have you guys ran around a hex-dungeon in RoF? Who the hell thought that was enjoyable? It just goes to show that even with good combat, you can still torture players with too much of it, especially in a barren dungeon of empty hex spaces.[/QUOTE]

Such an amazing love letter.

I enjoyed what little of RoF I played (as I said, I stopped playing it in Chapter 5). The music, art style, and the combat system (while not the greatest, still was a interesting one) drew me in. I honestly didn't care for the story though (if there is one), but I mean, we don't play MMORPGs for their stories, so why can't we play a JRPG that lacks a story?
 
[quote name='Japanese Dorito']I honestly didn't care for the story though (if there is one), but I mean, we don't play MMORPGs for their stories, so why can't we play a JRPG that lacks a story?[/QUOTE]

There's no problem with a lack of story, character interaction, or general world information, many games in fact benefit from this. One of the positive things about RoF is that it's so non-serious about itself, as themaster2000 pointed out. Diablo II, for example, is a game that relies on nothing but having the player mow through waves of enemies. Everyone skips the dialogue and you could count the number of cutscenes in the game on one hand.

Which is why I mentioned pacing, because that's really all games like this rely on. You battle and you are rewarded, but how? And when? Is RoF really so brilliant that each zone of combat is the player's reward? Because honestly I couldn't name much else the game does beyond throw you into hex dungeons each chapter. You can add a few gun attachments and buy clothes for your characters. Mind blowing.

So if the dungeon design is absolute shit, what's the fun aspect of this game? The hex-dungeon is the highlight of the game, according to the developers -- why else would they make it so prevalent? Surely it's not the sidequests involving letter delivery and finding lost stuffed animals?

Yeah, it definitely must be the steam punk atmosphere. Rock on, Tri-Ace.

8/10

\\\
 
[quote name='Japanese Dorito']And the voice-acting for it was excellent for a Tri-Ace game[/QUOTE]

You have to give credit to Sega for that one. They spent the extra money and got people that don't usually appear in JPRG. It is nice to see a game without Yuri Lowenthal/Johnny Yong Bosh/Michelle Ruff/ that appear in every Atlus/Xseed/NISA/Namco game. The last major JRPG like that was Final Fantasy XIII
 
[quote name='Zmonkay']Haven't played it in years, but from what I remember it was a very well done, though fairly standard JRPG. I really enjoyed the almost Wild Arms-ness of using party member's abilities outside of combat.[/QUOTE]
All the Breath of Fire games have abilities that can be used outside of combat. So really Wild Arms got it from BoF.

[quote name='panzerfaust']I actually thought the humor in RoF came across much better in Japanese.[/QUOTE]

I agree. And I really enjoyed the game. Granted I had to read the wikipedia article in order to make any sense of the story.
 
Yo panzer I'm with you, if anyone asked my impressions I'd say stay away, but it sounds like I didn't invest as much time as you. I got only 3 hours in and didn't want to waste anymore of my time. It's a shame since I was hyped for the game, but started to doubt the hype once I played the demo at TGS 09'
 
There is some semblance of fun to the game, my negativity towards it is mostly a response to the people championing it merely because it does something novel with a combat mechanic. And even though what Japanese Dorito said was true about it not needing certain aspects to be enjoyable, I just don't see why the game is then still designed like other JRPGs that do have other aspects in place.

Like, let's put a world map in the game because other JRPGs succeed with them. Let's have sidequests. Let's have dungeons to crawl through. Now that we have that, let's forget all the ingredients that made these elements work in other RPGs, and pretend that ours can sustain itself on the battles alone.

If they wanted so much emphasis on battling, maybe they should of constructed an original game around that idea, instead of copy pasting everything from different games that used very different philosophies.
 
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