Spock's Star Trek topic

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[quote name='javeryh']DS9 is the best series, IMO. The last 4 seasons were some of the best television I've ever watched.[/quote]

It's great television. Since I have been out of work I have watched it constantly.

[quote name='2Fast']Watchin' it right now. She's especially hot in this episode.[/quote]

It's hard to believe that years later they both would play such high profile roles in one of the biggest movie series ever, X-Men.

It's pretty cool that Professor X and Capt. Picard meet in the novel Planet X also.
 
[quote name='javeryh']DS9 is the best series, IMO. The last 4 seasons were some of the best television I've ever watched.[/quote]

I really like DS9 (and wish they would've made a movie), but it still just isn't as good as TNG, IMO. Too many TNG characters and gods to make me enjoy it as much. However, I'm not sure what I like more - DS9 or the Original Series.
 
It's hard to say for me...

DS9 and TNG probably tie as my favorites then...
Voyager
TOS

Putting them in order is a bit misleading though since I really do like them all (I haven't seen enough of Enterprise to comment on it yet).
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']It's hard to say for me...

DS9 and TNG probably tie as my favorites then...
Voyager
TOS

Putting them in order is a bit misleading though since I really do like them all (I haven't seen enough of Enterprise to comment on it yet).[/quote]

I think the thing that would put TOS over DS9 for me would be the movies. II (KHAAAAAAAAAAAN!), IV (Vulcan nerve pinch on the punk in the bus, Spock mind-melding with a whale), and VI (just an awesome movie), are unforgettable and really gave new life to Star Trek.

I've seen very little of Enterprise and Voyager to really have an opinion on them, but what from what I saw, I wasn't impressed.
 
Another minor complaint I have is that I'm not given enough time to know that a weapon is about break. So while I'm spamming the X button in a crowd of zombies, my weapon breaks, I eat a pizza at full health, and then get bit by a zombie. It's a small complaint but still very frustrating.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:

:applause:
:applause:
:applause:

That is one of the best ytmnd's I have seen![/quote]

It's very sig/avatar-worthy.

There are so many great Star Trek ytmnd's, but that one is the best I've seen in quite a while.
 
Well after finally watching and re-watching (in most cases) all the Star Trek films, here is how I would rank them in order.

1. First Contact - Borg + crazy Picard, can't go wrong.
2. The Undiscovered Country - Fantastic, love all the Shakespeare stuff, love the ending.
3. Insurrection - Very underrated IMO. A very light movie with some hokey humor, but delivered on the morals of Star Trek. I have a TNG bias anyway.
4. The Voyage Home - Another light movie that was very fun to watch and made me lol quite a bit.
5. The Wrath of Khan - Good movie, but overrated IMO.
6. The Search for Spock - Christopher Lloyd Klingon makes this movie.
7. Generations - Boring, and Kirk goes out like a bitch.
8. The Final Frontier - I rank this movie low, but I really didn't hate it. It's a decent movie and I'd almost put it above The Search for Spock, but the FX are horrible.
9. Nemesis - This movie deserves a special place in hell. fuck Stuart Baird.
10. The Motion Picture - I don't hate this movie like I do Nemesis, but my god it's long, boring, and much ado about nothing. V'GER-Borg theories are interesting though.
 
Well, here's how I'd rate it:

The good:
The Wrath of Khan -- this is really not overrated at all. This movie did so many things, that it almost seems impossible that it could be any good. It maintained the Kirk/Spock/McCoy dynamic, gave all the characters something to do, introduced a new character (Saavik), brought back an old character (Khan), and populated the movie with lots of other interesting characters. There are no wasted moments, no wasted characters, and genuine emotion. Still the best battle sequence, too.

The Voyage Home -- Walking a thin line between having fun with and making fun of the characters, this is still an enjoyable movie. As with the best of the movies, everyone is given something important to do. This movie strikes a really good balance among all its elements -- light hearted but genuine, socially conscious but not overbearing, and

First Contact -- The only good TNG movie. Good action, and hey -- how can you go wrong with the Borg? But some of it is leaden, and the Data/Borg Queen stuff was a rehash of stuff that we've seen a lot.

The Undiscovered Country -- the Shakespeare and cultural references are nice, but this movie is kind of a mess. A well-intentioned mess, granted. But many parts are weak (the trial, prison planet, and rescue) and the characters seem to be out of their groove. Spock has as many clunky lines as good ones, and as far as I'm concerned, the moment that Valeris was created as a stand-in for Saavik is the moment that Trek really started going to hell.

The okay: (aka entertaining, inoffensive, but lacking)

The Search For Spock -- This movie gets bagged on a lot because it isn't the Wrath of Khan, and never could be. There are occasional dumb moments, and much of the emotional core is lost with a wooden Saavik, but stealing the Enterprise and dealing with the planet and the Klingons are genuinely entertaining. Probably the movie that did best within its limits.

Insurrection -- A glorified TV episode, and inferior to many of the TV show's two part episodes. The love story, as with the movie as a whole, is flat, bland, and predictable. Not bad, but not good, either. Oddly, the movie is quite derivative of Generations, though nowhere near as bad. This would have been a forgettable TV episode, and the only reason it's remembered well is that it doesn't stink as badly as some of the other movies.

The Motion Picture -- This is long, boring, and often pointless, but it's not horrible. There's an actual story, and some characterization. V'Ger is actually quite remarkable, given effects at the time. But this movie could have used an original story and lots of editing.

The horrible:

The Final Frontier -- For me, it's hard to decide whether this or Nemesis is more embarassing. Nemesis was written by idiots, but in this movie, all the characters behave like idiots. There is no reason to watch this movie twice.

Generations -- Okay, I hate this movie. Stupid, lacking in plot, and a betrayal of characterization of both Picard and Kirk. Kirk was killed off for this movie? Probably the ST movie with the biggest lack of imagination, and biggest letdown from its potential.

Nemesis -- Where to start? This movie wants to be Wrath of Khan so bad, but doesn't understand what made that movie great. Plotholes, contrivances, and stupidities everywhere, along with pointless segments. Most of the cast is left out to dry, and Shinzon, while acted well, is a terrible character. The movie is a string of bad Star Trek cliches, capped off with the killing (and resurrection) of a beloved character for no good reason.
 
[quote name='blandstalker']Nemesis -- Where to start? This movie wants to be Wrath of Khan so bad, but doesn't understand what made that movie great. Plotholes, contrivances, and stupidities everywhere, along with pointless segments. Most of the cast is left out to dry, and Shinzon, while acted well, is a terrible character. The movie is a string of bad Star Trek cliches, capped off with the killing (and resurrection) of a beloved character for no good reason.[/quote]

Some other things I HATED about Nemesis are the little things it stole from other movies. Symbols/letters/numbers/codes cascading down a computer screen ala The Matrix, Lighting effects on the desert planet where they find B-4 (what a retarded name, by the way) ala Three Kings, Shinzon pulling himself up the sharp bar like the Uru'kai from Fellowship of the Ring, as well as some other things I think I missed.

Otherwise, there's a ton of shit that doesn't make sense: Shinzon's ship, Data transferring his memory, the final space battle, the one-time-use transporter thingy.

God, what a terrible, derivative, piece of shit movie.
 
You forgot JLP's fucking dune buggy. The only way that could have been more trite and horrific was if they had set the action to the Blur woo-hoo song. Sweet jesus that was terrible.
 
What's really stupid is that Picard was breaking the prime directive while he was driving around the dune buggy. The aliens were only using bullets, and as far as I know we've never seen anyone in Trek use bullets if they have phasers.
 
Yes, the dune buggy thing was terrible. One small, stupid thing I noticed in that scene is that Data is wearing goggles, when there's no point in him doing so.

I'm not sure if I just wasn't paying attention, or heard incorrectly, but Shinzon's ship doesn't make sense at all. Doesn't he say that he and the Remans built the ship? It's possibly the most advanced ship ever made in the history of Star Trek, but is made by backwoods B-movie bat people who live only to mine for the Romulans, yet somehow know how to make a ship far more advanced than anything the Romulans or Federation have.
 
[quote name='2Fast']

I'm not sure if I just wasn't paying attention, or heard incorrectly, but Shinzon's ship doesn't make sense at all. Doesn't he say that he and the Remans built the ship? It's possibly the most advanced ship ever made in the history of Star Trek, but is made by backwoods B-movie bat people who live only to mine for the Romulans, yet somehow know how to make a ship far more advanced than anything the Romulans or Federation have.[/quote] It's possible they built the ships for the Romulans then stole it.
 
[quote name='2Fast']Some pretty decent episodes on today. DS9 - Worf kills Growron, Martok become Chancellor, TNG - "Hugh" the Borg.[/quote]

Yep. Everytime Worf has delivered a beat down it has been good TV.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Yep. Everytime Worf has delivered a beat down it has been good TV.[/quote]

I really enjoy the "Hugh" episode as well, moral dilemmas always intrigue me.
 
[quote name='javeryh']What are people's thoughts on the new Trek movie due in 2008 (with supposedly Matt Damon as Kirk)?[/quote]

I'm somewhat disappointed. I would like to see a new post-Nemesis movie that would kick-off a new series, or perhaps a post-Nemesis TNG movie as forgiveness for Nemesis.

I don't really mind Damon as Kirk to be honest, I just hope Affleck isn't Spock :puke:

In all seriousness, the whole movie depends on who they get to play Spock. It has to be an unknown, I think.
 
[quote name='2Fast']I'm somewhat disappointed. I would like to see a new post-Nemesis movie that would kick-off a new series, or perhaps a post-Nemesis TNG movie as forgiveness for Nemesis.

I don't really mind Damon as Kirk to be honest, I just hope Affleck isn't Spock :puke:

In all seriousness, the whole movie depends on who they get to play Spock. It has to be an unknown, I think.[/quote]

Agreed.
 
[quote name='2Fast']I'm somewhat disappointed. I would like to see a new post-Nemesis movie that would kick-off a new series, or perhaps a post-Nemesis TNG movie as forgiveness for Nemesis.

I don't really mind Damon as Kirk to be honest, I just hope Affleck isn't Spock :puke:

In all seriousness, the whole movie depends on who they get to play Spock. It has to be an unknown, I think.[/quote]

I would also like to see one more TNG movie before they all get too old and it looks comical (if we're not there already). Kicking off a new series is a great idea if they do it right - it's a lot to cram into two hours and it's sci-fi which is a tough sell. Serenity was fantastic but didn't do as well as it should have unfortunately because it was essentially new IP (and the TV show was way better).

I guess I don't mind Damon as Kirk but if they are going in that direction why not just cast a bunch of unknowns for the movie and sign them to a 3 year TV deal if the movie does well enough?

IMO, the best solution for the Trek franchise would be to start sort of an "Ultimate" trek universe (ala Marvel) which just reboots the franchise. Too many nerds are worried about canon...
 
I wonder if Picard will somehow be flung back in time to help Kirk and Spock in the new movie and will die in some kind of half-thought-out circumstance.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Ah, I like this episode with LaForge and Ro.[/quote]

Me too. I have a small thing for episodes with Romulans and episodes that feature Geordi.
 
[quote name='javeryh']I guess I don't mind Damon as Kirk but if they are going in that direction why not just cast a bunch of unknowns for the movie and sign them to a 3 year TV deal if the movie does well enough?

IMO, the best solution for the Trek franchise would be to start sort of an "Ultimate" trek universe (ala Marvel) which just reboots the franchise. Too many nerds are worried about canon...[/quote]

I really, really agree that the movie has to be full of unknowns. I'm concerned about it since it's an odd numbered Trek movie, although Nemesis really bucked the trend of good even-numbered movies.

The "Ultimate" universe is a good idea. However, I've grown to hate having to memorize all the continuity/canon/alternate-universe stuff that occurs in comics. I'm just waiting for the day when Trek comes back. Hopefully Legacy is good enough to hold me over for now.
 
[quote name='2Fast']I wonder if Picard will somehow be flung back in time to help Kirk and Spock in the new movie and will die in some kind of half-thought-out circumstance.[/QUOTE]


Only Ruined vs Blu-Ray and Sarang01 vs imported UMDs have a higher rating on the CAG deathmatch leaderboard.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']Only Ruined vs Blu-Ray and Sarang01 vs imported UMDs have a higher rating on the CAG deathmatch leaderboard.[/quote]

:dunce: I wish I knew what you're talking about.
 
Any one else think Picard made the wrong decision in the Hugh episode? I don't care how attached to that Borg they got and how much of an individual he became, they should have destroyed the Federation's greatest enemy.
After all, if the Borg really wanted to assimilate the Federation they could just send a dozen or so Cubes and the Fed's wouldn't stand a chance. They should have eliminated the Fedaration's greatest threat.
 
[quote name='Kaijufan']Any one else think Picard made the wrong decision in the Hugh episode? I don't care how attached to that Borg they got and how much of an individual he became, they should have destroyed the Federation's greatest enemy.
After all, if the Borg really wanted to assimilate the Federation they could just send a dozen or so Cubes and the Fed's wouldn't stand a chance. They should have eliminated the Fedaration's greatest threat.[/QUOTE]

They would have retconned it anyway. I mean they kind of did anyway.

There was the 2 episode storyline with Lore where they said that after Hugh was sent back it caused problems for the Borg because Hugh's individuality spread through the collective. Then they were back to normal for Voyager and First Contact.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']They would have retconned it anyway. I mean they kind of did anyway.[/quote]

"I, Borg" itself was a retcon. Before it, the Borg were a collective with no evident individuality. They were scary and alien.

Hugh tells us that they have thoughts and feelings and some sense of self within the collective. The Borg are Just Like Us.

This is part of the point of the episode -- the things you don't know are scary and alien, but once you get to know them, they're warm and fuzzy -- but it was a major change and not, in my opinion, an evolution or an explanation of something that wasn't known before.

It's kind of hard to reconcile Hugh's pleasant, polite, and ethical behavior with the Borg who ruthlessly rape and pillage entire planets and equip everyone with a self-destruct device. It's also kind of hard to imagine how someone who was part of a collective like the Borg for (presumably) his entire life would have any kind of people skills.

So asking whether Picard was right or wrong is kind of tough. Considering the Borg pre-Hugh, it's hard to argue for him being right. But killing Hugh would be murder, and if all the Borg are like Hugh, you could even think of them as prisoners of the hive mind, just as Picard once was.

There was the 2 episode storyline with Lore where they said that after Hugh was sent back it caused problems for the Borg because Hugh's individuality spread through the collective. Then they were back to normal for Voyager and First Contact.

Even in First Contact, they changed again. The idea of a Borg Queen -- kind of an oxymoron, but necessary for dramatic purposes -- was invented.
 
yeah the Borg Queen was weak but I guess you needed someone or something to focus on as "the bad guy."

Picard should have sent Hugh back to destroy the Borg. There's really no moral dilemma in my mind at all. One douchebag ex-Borg who may cry a bit in exchange for wiping out the biggest Federation threat? It's a no-brainer. Humainity in Picard's time has evolved beyond my archaic way of thinking though...
 
The Borg have some inconsistencies and dumb canonical attributes that bother me:

- Not attacking until threatened - makes sense because they're supposed to be like bees, but out of all the times they've been burned by this, you'd think they'd adapt.

- Their sole purpose - what's the point? If they assimilate everything, what then? It's hard to wrap your head around their idea of perfection (especially since it hasn't been fleshed out), or why they do what they do, I guess that's what makes them interesting.

- Where they came from/their origin story - another things that makes them interesting I suppose, but still unexplained.

- The Borg Queen - I realize she was just a plot tool for First Contact, but what's the deal? Why does she always re-appear? Kind of silly, IMO.
 
[quote name='2Fast']The Borg have some inconsistencies and dumb canonical attributes that bother me:

- Not attacking until threatened - makes sense because they're supposed to be like bees, but out of all the times they've been burned by this, you'd think they'd adapt.

- Their sole purpose - what's the point? If they assimilate everything, what then? It's hard to wrap your head around their idea of perfection (especially since it hasn't been fleshed out), or why they do what they do, I guess that's what makes them interesting.

- Where they came from/their origin story - another things that makes them interesting I suppose, but still unexplained.

- The Borg Queen - I realize she was just a plot tool for First Contact, but what's the deal? Why does she always re-appear? Kind of silly, IMO.[/QUOTE]

You think in such 3 dimensional terms

;)
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']You think in such 3 dimensional terms

;)[/quote]

:rofl:

I thought maybe, just maybe someone would pull that out against me. :applause:
 
[quote name='dothog']YO! The Inner Light is on right now. Everybody get out their tin flutes and play along.[/quote]

Such a sad episode :whistle2:(

Oooh, Times Arrow 1 & 2 are on, I really enjoy these episodes; Mark Twain ftw!
 
I think Family Guy is overrated but I love the fact they spoofed Star Trek.

[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MLZBFOQ5tc[/MEDIA]

[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFxrdbun7e8[/MEDIA]

[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nZtPRJNtGo[/MEDIA]

[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klI28s0AWC4[/MEDIA]
 
[quote name='2Fast']The Borg have some inconsistencies and dumb canonical attributes that bother me:

- Their sole purpose - what's the point? If they assimilate everything, what then? It's hard to wrap your head around their idea of perfection (especially since it hasn't been fleshed out), or why they do what they do, I guess that's what makes them interesting.
[/quote]

In "Vendetta", the book by Peter David, he had an idea I thought was pretty keen. Assimilation is the Borg's form of exploration. Better than simply wanting technology, or the impenetrable idea of "perfection", they "explore" and "learn" about new cultures by devouring them.

This is a pretty neat concept because it can be looked at as a warped analogue of the Federation. Humans explore non-invasively, have their Prime Directive, and eventually welcome other worlds to join the Federation. The Borg just use a different model to accomplish the same thing.

- Where they came from/their origin story - another things that makes them interesting I suppose, but still unexplained.

I would rather not know, because the mystery is probably more interesting than anything they could come up with.

The same could be said for my feelings about a Kirk/Spock academy movie.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Ahh, so it is. Thanks for the heads up![/QUOTE]

Pretty cool for me, as I never saw the last two-three years or so when it aired.

WTF is Dukat doing as a Bajoran?
 
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