Team Fortress 2 Discussion Thread

I really dislike the dual payload maps. I've had games where my whole team only tries to attack the opposition instead of moving the cart!
 
I think the payload map needs a fix. How can a team win a round by pushing the cart all the way to the end, only to have a 10 ft advantage in the next round?
 
[quote name='SOSTrooper']I think the payload map needs a fix. How can a team win a round by pushing the cart all the way to the end, only to have a 10 ft advantage in the next round?[/QUOTE]

Heh, that seems like a classical "momentum" problem. On the one hand, you want to encourage players to win stages A and B, but on the other hand you don't want a runaway winner. Maybe the winning team could get a special bonus route or pimped out bomb cart? (Winning A upgrades the bomb's dispenser to level 2; winning B upgrades it to level 3.) Maybe a combination of both?

Payload is my preferred game mode, but the race map is poorly executed. The idea is good, but I find most rounds are either total blowouts or lengthy wars of attrition. Only the third stage, where the carts are side by side, do I find the back-and-forth nonstop action of a "racing game."

RE: class updates

Valve's been implementing "hard counters" to other classes as unlocks (Razorback to protect against spy backstabs), so I wonder if the engy will see anything like that. Maybe an anti-spy device that pings for spies every X seconds but constantly consumes metal? Maybe a shield generator that also consumes metal? Depending on the unlocks, players could perhaps outfit their engy as either pure offense or pure defense, essentially creating two subclasses.

I know Robin said that SGs, at present, are too binary (as in good players can always destory them while bad players cannot).
 
[quote name='Serik']Heh, that seems like a classical "momentum" problem. On the one hand, you want to encourage players to win stages A and B, but on the other hand you don't want a runaway winner. Maybe the winning team could get a special bonus route or pimped out bomb cart? (Winning A upgrades the bomb's dispenser to level 2; winning B upgrades it to level 3.) Maybe a combination of both?

Payload is my preferred game mode, but the race map is poorly executed. The idea is good, but I find most rounds are either total blowouts or lengthy wars of attrition. Only the third stage, where the carts are side by side, do I find the back-and-forth nonstop action of a "racing game."

RE: class updates

Valve's been implementing "hard counters" to other classes as unlocks (Razorback to protect against spy backstabs), so I wonder if the engy will see anything like that. Maybe an anti-spy device that pings for spies every X seconds but constantly consumes metal? Maybe a shield generator that also consumes metal? Depending on the unlocks, players could perhaps outfit their engy as either pure offense or pure defense, essentially creating two subclasses.

I know Robin said that SGs, at present, are too binary (as in good players can always destory them while bad players cannot).[/QUOTE]


That's a pretty good idea for duel payload. I have a feeling that the mode is basically in public beta and we'll see some changes to it in upcoming updates.

Yeah those anti spy devices also sound good, engineers do need something to defend against spies.
 
[quote name='Serik']

Valve's been implementing "hard counters" to other classes as unlocks (Razorback to protect against spy backstabs), so I wonder if the engy will see anything like that. Maybe an anti-spy device that pings for spies every X seconds but constantly consumes metal? Maybe a shield generator that also consumes metal? Depending on the unlocks, players could perhaps outfit their engy as either pure offense or pure defense, essentially creating two subclasses.

I know Robin said that SGs, at present, are too binary (as in good players can always destory them while bad players cannot).[/QUOTE]

me and my buddies were speculating what the engi and demo would get in their updates. we all agreed some kind of "spydar" would be good. or maybe something similar to the razor back, you can booby trap your builds, so if a spy tries to sap them they get a jolt or a bonk a la sand man. id also like to see an upgrade to the shotgun somehow for the engi.

for demo i thought something that might be good would be something like tear gas or nerve gas, it doesnt do as much damage, but does damage over time, it could clear out rooms or campers.

in either case ill be looking forward to the updates, engi and demo are two of my highest played classes. but pyro still tops them all.
 
I don't think a spy detector is a good enough upgrade for the engineer. Simply knowing that there is a spy around doesn't really help.

*Detector goes off* Boys theres a spy arou-SPY SAPPIN' MAH SENTRY *rest of the team follows up directly behind the sap as an organized team does and proceeds to decimate nest*

It needs be something that serves a purpose to specifically stop a spy from doing what it what usually does, and that is sapping. Like the Razorback, perhaps the ability to upgrade one device to level 4 which does nothing except provide a small second lifebar (visually, perhaps the form of an external battery) for the machinery, which must first be destroyed before the machine itself can be sapped. When the battery is being sapped, the machine still functions as normal, and is immune to being sapped until the battery is destroyed.

Concerning methods apart from sapping to destroy machinery, the external battery has no benefit, as an explosion would logically hit the entire object, and not be centered on the battery.

As a drawback to being able to do this, spies who constantly push and seek out nests rather than sitting around doing nothing waiting for the right moment should be rewarded in the face of this opposition. Apart from the 1 battery limit, engineers who choose to carry this extra power source require a different set of tools to install it. This "wrench" has the drawback of decreasing the max amount of metal that can be held, increasing the number of trips that must be made for the engineer to fully upgrade his devices on their own without punishing them in a team environment. Also, while other engineers may help build the machine to level 3, only an engineer with the special "wrench" can upgrade a device to level 4 and cannot be aided by normal wrenched engineers at the 4th level.

Further Drawbacks to be Considered:
To continue with this theme of rewarding speed, the "wrench" also has the drawback of not being able to speed up production time by whacking at the machinery as it builds.

Instead of punishing speed, gear this more towards individual play and say that the machinery is just altogether too complex for the normal wrench and therefore by choosing to use the special "wrench", you make other engineers without the wrench unable to assist you in the repair or construction of your devices.

Summary-
Pros:
Prevents a spy from sappin' your sentry or other device of choice by providing a second lifebar that must first be removed before the device itself can be sapped.

Neutral:
Only an engineer actually holding the special "wrench" can upgrade an object to level 4. Friendly engineers can help upgrade the "wrench" owner's devices to level 3 as usual, but not to level 4.
Only 1 level 4 upgrade per engineer with this item.

Cons:
Decreases maximum metal held meaning more time must be spent seeking metal to build with.

Possible Cons:
No increased building speed by hitting when building.
No help allowed from other engineers in repairing, upgrading, or speeding up production.
No Crits.
 
i think everyone likes the idea of a anti-sapping technology for engis, i bet valves aware of this.

id like to see the soldier get something like a high powered rifle, a la M4. no scope, but a powerful gun, have it replace the rocket launcher. have people running around like CTs in counter strike. could be fun, i know i would like solider more, ive never been a big fan of soldier.
 
The last couple of weeks I have found that I absolutely love playing as the Scout. Its a very good answer to Snipers. I never get tired of getting behind someone and killing them with the bat.:whee:

Has their been any confirmation as to what class is up for the next update?
 
[quote name='bg88']

Has their been any confirmation as to what class is up for the next update?[/QUOTE]

no word but demo, engi and soldier are the only 3 that havent been updated. so you can expect it to be one or more of those.
 
[quote name='lordwow']The scout got a lot funner for me now that I finally unlocked the force-a-nature.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I honestly can't decide which gun I like more with the Scout, the Force-A-Nature or the regular Scatter gun. The ammo capacity of the normal Scatter gun is very nice, but the Force-A-Nature is very nice to get out of situations quickly. Double jumping backwards + Force-A-Nature = very quick way of leaving a losing battle. I unlocked the Bonk Atomic Punch but I haven't used it yet. The Sandman is alright but I always use the original bat. But yes, the Force-A-Nature is pretty awesome.
 
My comments on Scout upgrades-
The Force-A-Nature is fun to use and useful for a scout who needs to stay on the move. The bonk drink is ok, I can't see when it would be useful other then on payload maps; might work for captures but I haven't tried it. The Sandman is a lot of fun to use however after immobilizing your opponent with the ball apparently 2 shots to the head will not do the trick, that being said I'll probably go back to the bat as well.
 
[quote name='lordwow']The scout got a lot funner for me now that I finally unlocked the force-a-nature.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I have way more fun playing the scout now that I have the FaN then I did before I had it.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']no word but demo, engi and soldier are the only 3 that havent been updated. so you can expect it to be one or more of those.[/QUOTE]

Apparently those 3 classes are my most played. I can't wait.
 
eh.. i think it looked different enough to not be a tf2 rip off. except the demo man.

tf2 isn't the only class based shooter around, and snipers, rocket launchers, and miniguns aren't the most original weapons

looked more like an army men game to me.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']eh.. i think it looked different enough to not be a tf2 rip off. except the demo man.

tf2 isn't the only class based shooter around, and snipers, rocket launchers, and miniguns aren't the most original weapons

looked more like an army men game to me.[/QUOTE]

It was a blatant rip off. Same style of music, same demoman grenades, same sound effect for sniper, fast class double jumped with a bat and quite a few more comparisons.

While not every class based shooter may be a rip off, TF2 is a wildly succesful game that many developers are likely to model their game after.
 
wtf style of music does tf2 have? "spy music"? certainly didn't get that feel from the trailer of whatever this game was called. sounds like an 80's robot transformin' song.

holy shit double jumping in video games!?

a weak yet fast character, oh my fucking god call the lawyers!


also, looking at the trailer again, i don't even think this is a class based game. the character types are all seen holding different types of weapons.
 
It's like a frantic military styled big band.

You can't deny the similarities are not few and far between. As Kotaku nicely points out with the comparisons, the trailer obviously takes elements from TF2' Meet The's and a few E3 trailers.
 
[quote name='Hydro2Oxide']It's like a frantic military styled big band.

You can't deny the similarities are not few and far between. As Kotaku nicely points out with the comparisons, the trailer obviously takes elements from TF2' Meet The's and a few E3 trailers.[/QUOTE]
those comparisons actually made me laugh a little. some of those are so bad, as in they look nothing alike, that it just seems like kotaku is purposefully trolling.

i already said that at least a couple of things are blatant rip-offs. mainly the demoman weapon as that is one of the few things thing is "unique" to tf2. that grenade style i have not seen elsewhere.

while comparisons certainly do exist between the two games, with even the smallest amount of extra thought, you can see that many of the "rip-offs" are simply genre conventions and that similar comparisons could be drawn between many other games. sure maybe this game has a couple of things directly taken from tf2, but it has many more things different about it in the right areas that make it its own game.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']those comparisons actually made me laugh a little. some of those are so bad, as in they look nothing alike, that it just seems like kotaku is purposefully trolling.

i already said that at least a couple of things are blatant rip-offs. mainly the demoman weapon as that is one of the few things thing is "unique" to tf2. that grenade style i have not seen elsewhere.

while comparisons certainly do exist between the two games, with even the smallest amount of extra thought, you can see that many of the "rip-offs" are simply genre conventions and that similar comparisons could be drawn between many other games. sure maybe this game has a couple of things directly taken from tf2, but it has many more things different about it in the right areas that make it its own game.[/QUOTE]

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the game will be unique in it's own way. Being it's a Korean F2P game (IIRC) then it'll probably have a leveling system and a few other differences. It's just not surprising though to see a smaller game with nearly no publicity (To me, never heard ofo it) to market a game like one of the greates multiplayer FPS's did.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']why doesnt CAG have a server that we can all play on and have game nights.[/QUOTE]

Because servers are big money :cry:
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']30 is more than i want to spend... id put 5 on it though ;)[/QUOTE]

We've tried this before, but unfortunately many people loss interest after a couple of months. We can go join non-empty servers together tho... :) I play almost every night, you can add my steam ID (SOSTrooper) to your buddylist.
 
That's probably my biggest issue with TF2, nearly ever server I play on is full every night. A lot of waiting to find a good server.

Also, I can't seem to remove servers from my played list, even after right clicking and clicking to remove from played list.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']why doesnt CAG have a server that we can all play on and have game nights.[/QUOTE]

We did have one previously I believe it was CaptainPlanet who started it and quickly folded after the few months of having a few of us donate to have no one use it. It was originally purchased for the CAG Syndicate group we had, hoping to actually play matches in the future...
 
SOSTrooper, I hate you.

Well, you had more cooperative medics. Ours would either suddenly be AFK or jump in the middle of the battlefield. That and a lot of our team kept playing defensive. Bleh.. but after you left, I was on top of the BLU team leaderboard. Heheh.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']trooper is just a damned good player.

i felt he was the best out of the original syndicate and he's probably only gotten better.[/QUOTE]

Very true, you can go far with an expert solider on your side.
 
i guess that makes me 2nd best, trooper and i were neck and neck in points tonight. of course then i foolishly changed from pyro to engi since our team didnt have any and my points dropped.
 
I have it on 360 but I can't justify paying full price for it again for pc, as amazing as
signature_singh.jpg
:)
 
Yea Ramstoria, thats why I like playing with groups of people I am familiar with so I don't feel like I'm playing a support class in vein.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']i guess that makes me 2nd best, trooper and i were neck and neck in points tonight. of course then i foolishly changed from pyro to engi since our team didnt have any and my points dropped.[/QUOTE]
i don't think you were a member of cag-s or if you were, you did not make an impression on me with your playing.

many excellent players will not be on the top of the boards, because they are focused on doing their job and supporting the team, not going after points. if your team didn't have any engineers and they needed one at the time, as long as you were able to accomplish what was needed from an engineer for your team, it doesn't matter how many potential points you lost in doing so.
 
Yeah Ramstoria you're actually a pretty good pyro. I think it'll be good to have a player like you on my side, takes some burden off of you and me.

:)
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']i don't think you were a member of cag-s or if you were, you did not make an impression on me with your playing.

many excellent players will not be on the top of the boards, because they are focused on doing their job and supporting the team, not going after points. if your team didn't have any engineers and they needed one at the time, as long as you were able to accomplish what was needed from an engineer for your team, it doesn't matter how many potential points you lost in doing so.[/QUOTE]

yeah, im in the cag-s group still. but i never really played with you guys. back when it was still new i didnt play much tf2 and when i did i played with some buddies of mine. my old computer ran tf2 at like 20 fps, so it wasnt very fun. my new computer runs its at 150+ fps, so ive been playing like its going out of style.


and SOS, i love pyro, ever since the flare gun game out ive been playing it like crazy.
 
Pyro is still my favorite and best class.

I once killed 8 people that were capping a point all by myself. Then I managed to kill about 5 or 6 more before I finally died.
 
Why don't we set up a CAG night already... pretty sure we can bum rush a random server.

And SOS, I joined when you were playing today again. That fast respawn server was kinda lame. One medic had Kritz right when he spawned for some reason. =d
 
Hmm really? I just know it was fast spawn, but I didn't know medics get uber/krits faster than normal. I usually avoid those dustbowl/goldrush/pipeline/2fort servers, so sometime I do end up playing in some custom modded servers like fast spawn or the semi-gay nom-nom-nom server (30 seconds of free kill at the round end).
 
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