The Alicia Foxx wants to bone Masked Lemon Wrestling Thread

[quote name='mykevermin']OMFG! THAT'S AWESOME!

Maybe Macho Man can buy a second shirt with his royalties.[/QUOTE]

:rofl:

I'm missing Impact right now since I'm at a friend's place and he's currently using his TV. I mean I could easily find a live stream online, but it's 20 minutes til the end of the show, so why bother?

Anything exciting happen?
 
Masked Lemon...it's time for you to once again change the thread title...because Macho Man is much more important than a woman who had a receeding hair line a la Shawn Johnson (look at that girl's subway commercial. lawd...)
 
I'm torn between the fact that I think TNA is a WWE graveyard and the fact that Tommy Dreamer and Raven are involved. If they actually have creative control, they'll do the right thing with it and I won't have to complain on the internet.
 
Well, that certainly was a memorable Impact. Despite having a few good matches on it in Angle-Hernandez, Joe-Jeff Hardy, and The Guns-Beer Money in a street fight, I was left with a sour taste in my mouth after the show. I'm going to blame part of that on the BPs being given even more TV time in an angle that requires them to spend tons of time on the two things they're the worst at - acting and wrestling. The big ECW circle jerk at the end was nauseating as well.

Taz's salute seemed to be the only genuine showing of emotion in the whole deal. Dreamer was forced, you see, to keep this job and see ECW's legacy get destroyed and force guys out of work. The revival sure wasn't perfect, but it did give the original ECW guys who never would have gotten a shot in WWE a gig there, and in the cases of Sabu, Sandman, and Mahoney, they got over way better than anyone could have expected. In the end, it was used to get NEW TALENT OVER and gave us weekly 3-to-4 star matches with Christian and let talent develop.

It came off to me as complete bullshit that Dreamer would praise ECW's usage of Terry Funk and Flair being used to put Lethal over and yet bash WWE's revival for using ECW Originals in the EXACT SAME WAY. The original ECW guys were there to lend credibility to the younger, up and coming guys. Dreamer himself was used in that role for Ryder less than a year ago. Also, for all the TNA-ECW comparisons Dreamer made, he left out that in its 8 years of existence, ECW helped revolutionize pro wrestling, while in that same timespan, TNA... hasn't. Hell, they can't even beat ECW's buyrates, let alone come close to equaling its impact on pro wrestling.

Now, as for the good matches on the show, Angle-Hernandez was about what I expected it to be, only Hernandez didn't do as much impressive-looking stuff as I think he'd need to do to lose to Angle and not wind up worse afterwards. Tenay talking about how no one would forget Hernandez's big dive amused me since I'd forgotten about it completely until he brought it up. I wish they'd nix this "ANGLE WILL RETIRE IF HE LOSES" deal because it's killing all the drama in his matches.

Joe-Jeff was one of Jeff's better TNA matches, but JB doing the "TIME LIMIT WILL EXPIRE IN 30 SECONDS!" deal pissed me off since it's NEVER, EVER BEEN DONE LIKE THAT BEFORE. It's always been either a one or five minute warning - never thirty seconds. This served as a great way to build to a rematch at the August PPV...which seemingly can't happen now because Dixie said the show will be entirely ECW guys.

The Guns-Beer Money street fight had a bunch of neat-looking stuff in it, including a lot of creative ramp work by the Guns early. Sabin taking his shirt off before delivering a very time-sensitive hesitation dropkick on the ramp bugged me, but that was about the only thing I had a problem with in this match until all the ref shit happened. One ref gets bumped. Then another. The Guns have the win, but get cheated out of it once again. It makes for a fine "faces have to come from behind" angle to this, but they're doing a better job of building up to an Earl vs. Brian Hebner match than they are the finale of this supposedly big feud.

RVD's promo about the ECW deal and saying that his time here is neither the best or worst time of his life was...something else. Oh, and he didn't even show up until about 10:40. Oh, and AJ needed Kazarian's help to win the fucking Global title from ROB TERRY of all people. God, this company...

Oh, and what the fuck where Jarrett and Nash babbling about? It started as more Hall/Waltman stuff, and then it seemed like they were trying to (shockingly) REFERENCE MORE STUFF THAT HAPPENED AT LEAST A DECADE AGO IN ANOTHER COMPANY, because God only knows that a company presently building around '96-era ECW needs to be stuck further in the past.

Screens -







WTF>


Dixie Tron!










IT'S SUPERMEX!


Follow Dixie's ass on Twitter!


Quotes -

Tenay - WHAT’S BEHINID THE EXTREME INVITATION!?
Tenay - Rob Terry is the longest-reigning Global Champion in TNA History.
Taz - Yeah, and AJ was the longest-reigning World Champion in TNA history. So I’d say that makes him the toughest guy AJ’s ever faced.
Tenay - He’s also the only TNA Grand Slam champion, although when he was the Global champion, it was known as the Legends championship.
Taz - What a way to kick off Impact - with Global gold on the line.
Taz - AJ did like a low kick to the big tree trunk-like legs of Rob Terry and he acted like he won the Super Bowl or something.
Tenay - Eric and Hogan aren’t here for the second week in a row, but we’ll hear form Eric via the TELEPHONE.
(after AJ beats Rob Terry with Kazarian’s help)Tenay - THIS IS RIDICULOUS!
Tenay - This is an Impact broadcast that promises ANSWERS!
Taz - The last we saw of Mick in TNA Land, he was fired by Eric Bischoff.
Rayne - Velvet’s talking about the dumpy ass of my bodyguard, let’s talk about BOOBZILLA! She’s got one in Miami and one in Jersey!
Lacey - LET’S ALL BE HAPPY AGAIN. Love you!
Dixie - YOU PUNCHED A REF! MY GOD!
Al - Dixie, we didn’t know what was going on!
Dixie - YOU SHOULDN’T NEED TO KNOW WHAT’S GOING ON - YOU’RE JUST AGENTS!
Taz - She’s as happy as a June Bug. Whatever that is.
Tenay - Hold that thought, we’re gonna hear from Earl Hebner!
Taz - I’M HOLDING IT! I’M HOLDING IT!
Hebner - Angelina, the TNA boarth of directors has ordered me to give the title back to Madison since we don’t have any proof on the indenifee of the woman on the bike.
Tenay - The ref Andrew Thomas was put in a tough spot and assumed it was a BP on the bike!
Taz - Know what happens when you assume?
Tenay - Yeah.
Taz - So you saw Bad News Bears?
Taz - Angelina’s hot - and angry!
(after the biker chick comes out)Taz - Well, now we know it’s not Sarita!
Tenay - THAT’S TRUE!
Taz - Who is it? We assume it’s a woman. Otherwise, it’s an oddly shaped man.
Taz - Again with that massive helmet.
Tenay - THE FORMER ECW STARS HAVE ARRIVED AT THE IMPACT ZONE! MICK FOLEY’S WITH THEM, SO THAT ANSWERS ONE OF OUR QUESTIONS!
Taz - Last week, Tommy Dreamer suffered an MCL tear during that big melee.
Tenay - REMEMBER THAT HUGE DIVE AT VICTORY ROAD!? PEOPLE ARE STILL TALKING ABOUT IT!
(during an over the top shoulder block from Hernandez)Tenay - WUH-HOAH!
Taz - Each Kurt and Hernandez have surgically-repaired necks. Kurt’s had a few more of them than Hernandez.
Tenay - We have a great wrestling lineup, AND I CAN’T WAIT TO HEAR DIXIE CARTER’S EXPLANATION FOR INVITING THE FORMER ECW STARS TO TNA!
Tenay - A fourth. Suplex. By Angle.
(after the sitout dominator)Taz - Wow, that was ugly!
Tenay - THERE’S ONLY A FEW SELECT PEOPLE WHO CAN KICK OUT OF THE ANGLE SLAM! THAT’S VERY IMPRESSIVE BY HERNANDEZ!
Tenay - WE ARE SURPRISED BY THE ENTRANCE OF KEVIN NASH!
Taz - Well, they are former Main Event Mafia members.
Nash - HEY JARRETT. I seen ya in the back today, I’d like to talk to you. Come on down and talk to Big Sexy. (ad break theme plays immediately) I’ve had a week to think, and the more I’ve thought about it, something just didn’t feel right. You’re really good at what you do. (crowd goes mild) You almost had me convinced that it was Sting that left a log in the punch bowl. I’ve known Sting for 20 years - when I broke in and wasn’t making money, he’d let me stay in his place on a rollaway bed for nothing. I’m not sure if it was Sting who left the log in the punch bowl - I think it was you, Double J. You eat a lot of almonds? Huh? I can deal with it. But ya know what? There’s a group of young guys who look up to you as a veteran and a leader and they are the victims.
Jarrett - I don’t have any idea what you’re saying. I’m not buying, and I’m sure as hell sure that these folks aren’t buying. You used your deceit to hurt this company when you got Hall and Waltman their jobs. You can spin your tale anyway you want, but I KNOW YOU AND THESE PEOPLE KNOW YOU.
Nash - Kill the history lesson. I’ve come to my conclusion. I get it. I can deal with it and live with it. I’ve got a question for you - those three young daughters of yours. When they grow up, and they get it, and they realize that their father, their loving daddy, is nothing but a selfish prick! Juggle that in your sleep.
Angle - I hope you know what you’re doing - these guys have a reputation.
Dixie - Just trust me.
Angle - I trusted you four years ago when I signed, and I’ll trust ya now.
Tenay - NOT ONLY IS IT NUMBER 2 VERSUS NUMBER 4 - BUT IT’S JEFF HARDY VERSUS SAMOA JOE FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER.
Tenay - THIS IS ONE OF THOSE VERY SPECIAL MATCHES THAT DOESN’T COME ALONG EVERY WEEK!
Tenay - You called RVD versus Joe a wrestling purist’s dream match - and I think you can safely use that same description here.
Tenay - TWO OF THE BIGGEST NAMES IN OUR BUSINESS. And they meet right here on Impact!
Eric - We miss you guys. But with the fourth of July and Hulk’s surgery…and we’ve been doing business for TNA Worldwide!
Tenay - DO YOU HAVE ANY INSIGHT INTO DIXIE’S ANNOUNCEMENT!?
Eric - No, but we love her, we support her, and we’re team players!
Taz - It’s nice hearing from Eric, but can we please focus on this match between the number 2 and 4 contenders?
(after a back elbow from Joe to Jeff Hardy)Tenay - WHAT A PREVIEW!
Taz - Joe’s looking at Brian Hebner like he’s lunch if he doesn’t count 3 for that power slam.
Taz - STF - Stepover Toehold Facelock. Now into the crossface!
Taz - Jeff Hardy’s a former world heavyweight champion!
Taz - Jeff called that Whisper in the Wind. Not sure if he still does.
Tenay - As far as I know.
JB - 30 SECONDS REMAIN IN THE TIME LIMIT.
JB - 10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1. REFEREE BRIAN HEBNER HAS DECLARED THIS A TIME LIMIT DRAW.
Anderson - ARE THERE ANY ASSHOLES IN THE BUILDING!? Well, then I give you the head asshole in charge - MISTER ANDERSON!
Taz - Talk about having a strange name for your fans and yourself.
Taz - I’ve been considered an a-hole by a lot of people.
Tenay - Who?
Taz - Like my blushing bride at home. I’ve been called that a bunch of times.
Taz - Anderson’s doing the right thing - even if he is an a-hole.
(during the back elbow strikes)Taz - VINTAGE MATT MORGAN!
Taz - MIKE, LOOKLOOKLOOKLOOK! (Morgan attacks Anderson with his mic)
Taz - The Guns are madder than a monster in a Godzilla movie! They got robbed!
Tenay - HE’S GONNA GET ALL THAT MOMENTUM!
Taz - But he’s gotta take his shirt off first.
Taz - A chair’s a good way to destroy a guy’s patella. His knee cap. The front of the knee.
(after Roode is sent into a chair he set up)Taz - HOLY BACKFIRE!
Taz - It looked close but it was close!
Tenay - Whoever gets to 3 first in this best of 5 series, is the tag team champions.
Tenay - DOUBLE R SPINEBUSTER!
Tenay - DON’T GO ANYWHERE - Dixie Carter’s announcement is coming up next!
Tenay - If the ref was awake, the Guns would have won. But if my aunt had a yam bag, she’d be my uncle!
Devon - They’re family - like us.
Ray - WE HAVE NOTHING TO PROVE. WE’VE DONE IT ALL MORE THAN THEY EVER HAVE.
Hemme - RVD, we all know your history with ECW! BIG CHAMPION!
RVD - It was like being home last week. That part of my career, as an artist, I’m so proud of. To have that come to the present day while I’m world champ it’s like everything all at once. AWESOME!
Hemme - NOW TONIGHT, DIXIE’S GONNA HAVE A HUGE ANNOUNCEMENT! You’re the champ, you have any insights as to what she’s gonna say?
RVD - People are asking me like I have the info - but I don’t know. I hope it has something to do with what I’m thinking. And the fans giving credit to what we did that long ago shows me that the hardcores have been with me through my best times, worst times, and now.
Tenay - HOW WILL DIXIE’S ANNOUNCEMENT AFFECT TNA!? I think DIXIE OWES US AN EXPLANATION!
Taz - What? She owns the company - what’s she owe anyone? This is like her house, and she just invited people to her house.
Tenay - Yes, but SHE HAS A SPECIAL CONNECTION WITH HER AUDIENCE AND WE WON‘T LEAVE THIS QUESTION UNANSWERED!
Tenay - DIXIE’S EXTREME EXPLANATION IS NEXT!
Taz - LAY IT ON US, BOSS!
Tenay - REMEMBER, SHE SAID LET’S TRUST HER!
Dixie - I have always said that TNA has the best fans in the world! THANK YOU! As TNA President, I’ve always said that this will be a company about the fans! And my favorite part of my job is getting to meet you personally and hear what you want to see in TNA! Actually, Twitter and Facebook have helped me more to you - and yes it’s actually me, and I’ve learned a lot throughout the years. There’s one thing that’s been brought up time and time and time again - that’s your love of extreme, hardcore wrestling!
Crowd - EC DUB!
Dixie - ABSOLUTELY. Help me welcome five gentlemen who made hardcore an art form - let’s welcome them properly to the Impact Zone!
Taz - On behalf of the ECW Originals, I’m flattered that our President is showing love for what we did back in the day.
Dixie - I didn’t think it was fair for me to hear about what these people did for this industry.
Mick - This is the first time you’ve done a wrestling promo. I haven’t been here since the beginning, but Raven has.
Dixie - This isn’t a promo - I’m being REAL! What Hogan was to the ‘80s, you guys meant to ECW in the ‘90s. What’s unique…
Crowd - EC DUB!
Dixie - You guys deserve that. It’s not about being hardcore, it’s about dedication and respect. You guys not doing it for fat paychecks, but doing it because you love the guys you stand next to in the ring and it’s about your love for the fans. You always gave your best and they will never forget that. I have a history with four of you, and you mean a lot to me. Those same traits is what helped TNA survive and thrive today. Thank you for setting the bar high. I really appreciate it fromt he bottom of my heart.
Mick - Dixie, we should thank you. The last time I was here, I WAS FIRED. And I appreciate the fact that you’re giving me another chance to make a last impression.
Crowd - WELCOME BACK.
Mick - No one’s last moment should be being dejected, and if there’s one person who knows about closure, there’s 4 who have meant a lot to our company, and there’s one who’s been a great ambassador.
Dixie - DREA-MER!
Dreamer - I have watched TNA sinve the beginning. When they were at the Asylum in Nashville. And I watched a small company gorw. And my friend would tell me to quit and come here. I was scaed - I was a dad with 2 kids and I had financial security. I kept on seeing similarities between the original ECW and TNA - it was a place where men and women who were unknown became legends. Where legends came to ECW to reinvent their career. Long before Joe was dumping people on their heads and choking people out, there was Taz doing it everywhere! What Ric Flair did for Jay Lethal, Terry Funk did for me and did for Mick Foley! Before the Bps, there was Francine and Beulah! And I saw when you invited me to Slammivesrsary, I GOT TO FEEL TNA. I GOT TO SEE A BUNCH OF MEN AND WOMEN DOING WHAT THEY DO FOR THE LOVE OF THE BUSINESS AND FOR EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU! And I have to thank you for bringing back that passion. Because at the 2005 One Night Stand, i had my closure. AND THEN THEY BROUGHT IT BACK. And I got to witness my friends who we used to party like rock stars, and now I know their kids. I GOT TO WATCH THEM GET FIRED. FOR WHAT!? EXACTLY. Until it bothered me so much that I had to quit my job, and at 38 years old, that’s a risk, BUT I COULDN’T STAND IT! I sat in that crowd, he would talk to me, and he would, and he would, and he would, and he showed me all the similarities. There’s only one person who could make it happen - you. This isn’t about an ECW Invasion or us taking over - it’s about MEN AND WOMEN LOSING THEIR JOBS, WHOSE LIVES WERE AFFECTED BY IT. I REFUSE TO CRY! I LOVE YOU GUYS TOO! This is about, for the fans that chant it, for my friends who lived it, that our legacy is not destroyed. I BEG OF YOU, FOR ONE NIGHT. GIVE US ONE NIGHT TO SHOW WHAT WE HAD AND OUR LEGACY CAN LIVE FOREVER. I BEG OF YOU! DO YOU GUYS WANT ONE NIGHT?! DO YOU GUYS WANT ONE NIGHT!?
Dixie - You know how to put a person in a difficult position. I believe in you guys, but DO YOU GUYS WANNA DO THIS!? I have one stipulation - you and you guys, plan this, plan everything. You have complete control. IT’S GOT TO BE REAL. It’s got to be what you want!
Crowd - SABU!
Dreamer - Impact Zone, we’re going extreme!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm still looking to eventually buy an old "Cactus Jack - Wanted Dead" shirt but it's tricky to navigate through the knock offs. I don't need an ECW Original one or anything silly like that but some have had different pictures and fonts and the like.

As it stands, the only wrestling shirt I still have, that gets worn to the gym sometimes is the "Mick Foley - Fake Wrestler" one from ~1998. I'm looking for a picture but I don't really see anything.
 
[quote name='Halo05']I'm still looking to eventually buy an old "Cactus Jack - Wanted Dead" shirt but it's tricky to navigate through the knock offs. I don't need an ECW Original one or anything silly like that but some have had different pictures and fonts and the like.

As it stands, the only wrestling shirt I still have, that gets worn to the gym sometimes is the "Mick Foley - Fake Wrestler" one from ~1998. I'm looking for a picture but I don't really see anything.[/QUOTE]

I've got one of the old WWF ones, an XL i think... i've never worn it.
 
[quote name='zrac']at least there's a good global champ again.[/QUOTE]

I have a toy Intercontinental Title on a shelf. It matters more to me than the "Global Title". TNA wanted to have another belt, fine. The way it was introduced and named is asinine. I like AJ, I want AJ to be successful, I don't care he has the stupid toy belt. I guess I can concede that at least Rob Terry has nothing that even looks like a championship now.
 
I didn't care for the ECW promo at the end... seemed rather lackluster. I guess it's better than just standing in the crowd and not doing shit.
 
*Alright, I didn't mean for this to be as long as it was, but when trying to put down my thoughts about this TNA/ECW stuff, it just snowballed. Read it, don't read it, up to you.*



While the Dreamer promo wasn't bad, it was... well, I'm just tired of it. Out of all the ECW guys, Dreamer is the one whose entire gimmick as a wrestler can be boiled down to 'I love ECW!'. Frankly, he should love it, since he's been coasting off it for over a decade now. Go ahead, outside of something for the original ECW, name an important Tommy Dreamer moment. Paul Heyman's ECW ended in 2001, and it's never coming back. Why wrestlers, fans, and companies can't grasp this, I have no idea.

The original ECW wasn't just a company, it was a lifestyle, a mindset. It was a niche product at a time when wrestling was red-hot. It was, also, headed up by arguably the most charismatic and creative bookers ever. Paul Heyman took guys no one cared about and made them stars, even if they didn't really have the fundamentals of wrestling down. I really do believe that it changed the landscape of wrestling, but ECW was always destined to fail. No amount of heart, no amount of money, no amount of fan love was going to change the fact that you were never going to get a promotion that violent into American homes and be accepted. That's to say nothing of the fact that your wrestlers simply wouldn't be able to work a national (i.e., WWF, WCW) type schedule in the ECW wrestling style. ECW was the perfect wrestling example of better to burn out than to fade away. Problem is, note the 'was'.

WWE put on, arguably, one of their best PPVs ever when they did One Night Stand in 2005. That's the closest to a resurrection of ECW that there was ever going to be, and it was fantastic. They were in a unique position, because they got to showcase the past and, most importantly, the legacy of ECW. The originals were there, but they also were able to use their own now-WWE wrestlers who first gained popularity *in* ECW. While most people think of Dreamer, Sandman, and Sabu when ECW is mentioned, the bottom line is that people like Benoit, Jericho, Guerrero, and Mysterio were just as important to the brand, because they brought honest-to-god wrestling. ECW was always more than hitting each other with objects, but those are never the guys that seem to be mentioned.

So, WWE brought ECW back, and very quickly discovered that, no, ECW was not a viable business model. There were network shackles, there were McMahon shackles, but they had the most important ingredient, Paul Heyman. For what it was worth, Heyman, in 6 months, made WWECW just about as good as it could've been. WWE realized, however, that the brand needed to change and grow. It couldn't be Extreme Rules all the time. It couldn't be just based around a group of semi-broken down ECW Originals. The brand had to evolve, it had to incorporate other wrestlers, and the fans of the original ECW refused to budge. I admit, that Batista/Big Show moment was hilarious, but it showed just how not viable running WWECW as the original ECW was. The fans knew what they wanted, but it was the same thing that killed the brand 5 years ago. Heyman aside, McMahon also ran into the problem of who to base the brand around. He needed a strong champion that could stand with the other two, and that both WWE and ECW fans could get behind. Van Dam was the obvious choice, but in a move that had the worst timing ever, McMahon discovered that some of the ECW Originals may not be the most trust-worthy bunch. Van Dam gets busted as the WWE and ECW champion, so there's no option but to strip him of both. WWE title is easy, but what of the ECW title? As ECW was, the Originals were a pretty sorry looking group. Sabu was arrested with Van Dam, so that was out. Dreamer isn't really a 'title' guy. Sandman certainly wasn't getting the belt. That left the WWE main event guys that were thrown into the brand, Big Show and Angle. Angle, as history has shown, was likely put in ECW because WWE was beginning to see that he had issues and needed him away from big spotlights, so he wasn't getting the belt. By default, they were left with Show, which is going to continue a trend until 2 years into WWECW. Without going into how awful D2D was, the biggest mistake McMahon made wasn't pulling Heyman, but putting the belt on Lashley. It marked that he had given up on the brand and was using it as nothing more but a springboard to get 'his' guys over. Lashley left, and there was hope to put the brand in a new direction with a new veteran at the helm, someone people respected and liked, someone who could wrestle with just about anyone, someone that Angle should've been to the brand 3 months in, someone who murdered his wife and child the night before he was going to win the belt. Again, by default, we got Johnny Nitro as ECW champion, and the era of glorified developmental began.

The point of all that was I truly don't believe that WWE is completely to blame for the destruction of WWECW. I think, initially anyway, that the feeling and heart were in the right place. Problem was, no one wanted to change. No one, not Heyman, not the fans, wanted to acknowledge that they were playing in McMahon's sandbox. The Batista/Big Show night, when the fans shit on McMahon's product, was a likely a turning point for the brand and McMahon's feelings towards it. Whether they liked it or not, ECW was back because of McMahon, and that meant playing by his rules, even if they didn't run the same way as the original ECW. That, to me, was the bottom line... it was never the original ECW, and it was never going to be. Problem is, people deluded themselves into thinking that. Nostalgia is a bitch like that.

This finally brings us back to Tommy Dreamer's tearful speech from last night. I've already aired my feelings on Dreamer, and I mean every word. Tommy Dreamer hasn't been relevant for anything but nostalgia in close to a decade, and that's not going to change. Dreamer wasn't ECW. He wants to believe it, he wants to portray himself as the still-beating heart of the original ECW. Problem is, strip away the wrestlers, strip away the fans, strip away the wrestling itself, and ECW, at the very core, was Paul Heyman. He gave the wrestlers carte blanche on storylines and matches, but the heart and soul of ECW, the beating heart, was Paul Heyman. You can have Dreamer vs. Raven and Van Dam vs. Lynn, but at the end of the day if you don't have Heyman, it's not ECW.

Heyman's notable absence from this angle is a problem. The man has a huge ego and refuses to believe certain truths about himself and ECW, but he's a great booker and motivator. Without him, it's a collection of used-up wrestlers waxing poetically about things that happened a decade ago. It's the opportunity for Target managers and breastick makers to get into the spotlgiht one more time. It's yet another stab at the nostalgia dollar for a company that hasn't figured out that it doesn't work.

Dixie Carter can come out and talk about how she's personally interacting with fans on the internet and that she knows they have a love of 'hardcore wrestling', but without understanding why. She'll listen to those fans, but yet seemingly ignores the ones who cry for the dismissal of Russo, or the ones who loudly wonder why people like Wolfe, Styles, and Joe are used so poorly, or even the group that asks the timeless question of why Scott Hall keeps getting chances. Those groups are ignored, yet she listens to the people that want to see ECW back. A decade dead brand that is the cult favorite of people who want the Attitude Era back. That's fine, though, because bringing back old favorites can never miss, right?

I want to tell TNA the same thing I want to tell Tommy Dreamer: Let. It. Go. It's over, and it's never coming back. Concentrate on the now, and stop coasting on nostalgia acts. The sheer fact that Hard Justice is being set up as a 'ECW' PPV is terrifying, as it's another example of TNA consistently taking the spotlight off of TNA. The highest buy-rate they ever had was Angle/Joe. Angle is now doing a throwaway storyline with a ranking system no one cares about, and Joe is only now recovering from carrying a large knife and being, uh, kidnapped. The ECW Originals, though, get their own PPV. If this isn't 'vintage' TNA, I don't know what is.

The original ECW was hugely innovative, entertaining, and it changed the landscape of wrestling in the 90s. It introduced new styles to America, and ignited a passion in fans that is still unmatched to this day. It did what it did very well, but with no potential for growth. ECW was always going to die, but it was a hell of a trip. Heyman always compares ECW to the grunge movement, and the Cobain parallel isn't terrible... both at the forefront of a movement that changed an industry, and will always be remembered more fondly BECAUSE they didn't stick around. WWE already watered it down and, staying true to their mantra, TNA has decided to suckle on that long-dry teat. Part of this problem is that fans won't let ECW stay dead, and the wrestlers who have never moved on are more than happy to oblige. Tommy Dreamer can go ahead and complain about WWE 'bringing it back', but he accepted a paycheck for long enough that he maybe, just maybe, loses some credibility with that.

The saddest part about all of this is that, for a company that thrived on innovation, change, and going against established wrestling conventions, it's become nothing but a watered-down nostalgia act. It's like that teenager that runs out of the house in the middle of the night screaming "I'll never be like you!", only to find that 20 years later, they've become exactly what they were rebelling against in the first place. That's a god-damn shame.
 
Tommy Dreamer's promo from last night in picture form:

13135__say_anythiing_l.jpg
 
Am I immature for laughing when Dreamer looked at Dixie and said "When you invited me to Slammiversary, I got to feel TNA"?

I really don't know why I don't watch TNA more often. I need to set my DVR to record it every week. I'll definitely order the PPV if it feels just like an older ECW PPV.. those were the best.
 
I find myself waiting for Lucha USA tomorrow more than watching TNA on the DVR... I do want to see the Joe/Hardy match and the ECW stuff, but not much else. It's sad considering how much I love TNA's roster. I like Beer Money and Kaz as part of Fortune, but AJ just works so much better as an underdog face than a chicken shit heel. I give the boy credit for trying, but it doesn't work for him. The guy I could see going up against a face AJ and leading Fortune (other than Roode) left for ROH months ago. I'm glad Creed got a WWE development deal. Dude deserves it. Impact needs more Pope. When he came back a few weeks ago and the IZ was chanting "Hallelujah!" was awesome. The man is super over and needs to be out in front of that crowd more often.
 
I don't think it is right to blame the fans for WWECW not working. The business model for ECW could have worked with WWE's backing if they would have treated it as it's own entity. Limited house shows, having it's own tapings using different equipment in smaller venues, letting Heyman be Heyman. As soon as they decided to make ECW Sunday Night Heat reborn, the brand was doomed.

December To Dismember is the perfect example of what went wrong with it. Vince doesn't like Sabu so he replaces him with Hardcore Holly. CM Punk, despite being the hot new guy, first person eliminated. Rob Van Dam eliminated third leaving Test, Big Show and Bobby Lashley. Lashley steamrolls both guys to win the title which made the fans furious.

I wonder how that show would have been received if they would have left Sabu in and had CM Punk eliminate Big Show first with the Anaconda Vice like Paul wanted to do.

Can you give us some examples of the things that you wanted to do that Vince said "no" to?

I thought the undercard was horrible. I thought that the design of the show itself made no sense. I just felt that the entire layout of the show, the entire complexion of the event was a downer. I also thought that we were doing Bobby Lashley no favours the way he was going to win the title. Lashley winning the title, especially if you eliminate Rob Van Dam and CM Punk early, would be leapfrogging over RVD and Punk.

Van Dam was the sentimental favourite, Punk was the kid that all the crowd was getting behind and they wanted to see the upset. If you don't appease the need for the audience to see that new hero get crowned like Punk did the week before at Survivor Series when DX let him say 'Are you ready?' then the audience will feel ripped off. If you don't put that spotlight on Van Dam, with whom the paying customers have just taken this long ride back into the title chase, then the paying customer will feel ripped off.

My opinion was to start the chamber off with the Big Show saying: "I'm a seven foot tall, 500lb giant, I'm gonna mow through every one of you." And the first to take him on would be Punk. Playing to the fact that UFC is so hot and in the public consciousness, Punk chokes out Big Show in the first round of the Elimination Chamber, four-and-a-half minutes in, and now the champion is out. You know for a fact, before any two contenders lock up, I'm getting a new champion at the end of this match. Then, the first guy to come out after Big Show v Punk, would be Van Dam. You let Van Dam and Punk fight it out, and then you start feeding in the heels.

Vince hated this. He especially hated the fact that Big Show liked it.

Even though he was being choked out within five minutes, Big Show liked it?

Of course, because he was making a new guy! Big Show is so underappreciated in terms of how smart he is to the business, and how willing he is to make new stars.

Vince wanted all babyfaces out of the way and for all the spotlight on Lashley and for Lashley to do a Goldberg-style two minute squash of The Big Show. At that point, not only did I realise that this is going to suck, not only is everyone going to throw this back at us, but this show is going to run short. And during the show, I pointed all this out to Vince, which just angered him even more, and he didn't care. His attitude was: "When this broadcast is over, people will see a new champion, they'll have a new hero and they'll all be happy."

When I went to Vince right before I went out to introduce the Chamber, I pointed out again to him "Vince this show is horribly short." I had this idea of getting 15 minutes out of the crowd, but Vince said: "No, no, no. Just go out there, make your point, and introduce the Chamber." Which is why, when I was in the ring, I made the statement: "ECW will live long after I am gone." Because I knew, either when I went back into the dressing room, or within the next day or two, it was time for me to leave.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/wrestling/heyman/article762131.ece
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='Sporadic']I don't think it is right to blame the fans for WWECW not working. The business model for ECW could have worked with WWE's backing if they would have treated it as it's own entity. Limited house shows, having it's own tapings using different equipment in smaller venues, letting Heyman be Heyman. As soon as they decided to make ECW Sunday Night Heat reborn, the brand was doomed.

December To Dismember is the perfect example of what went wrong with it. Vince doesn't like Sabu so he replaces him with Hardcore Holly. CM Punk, despite being the hot new guy, first person eliminated. Rob Van Dam eliminated third leaving Test, Big Show and Bobby Lashley. Lashley steamrolls both guys to win the title which made the fans furious.

I wonder how that show would have been received if they would have left Sabu in and had CM Punk eliminate Big Show first with the Anaconda Vice like Paul wanted to do.
[/QUOTE]

I may have been a bit heavy-handed with that, but the bottom line is that they, for lack of a better word, attacked Vince's ego. They loved ECW, and called *his* wrestlers, and *his* matches shitty. For a man who, as recently as 5 years ago, destroyed and eliminated his competition, I think that was too much for him, or at least too much for him to understand. (Ho ho) He's Vince McMahon, dammit, he won! He won, he let 'their' product return, and they weren't happy. It may not have been right of him to do, but Vince took his ball and went home. If you honestly believe, for one second, that Vince would've ever let ECW run as a sort of 'seperate entity' or that he'd let 'Heyman be Heyman', you're deluding yourself. WWECW may have been successful like that, but it was never in the realm of possibility, since it was always firmly going to exist in McMahon-land.

From any standpoint, it's tough to call the first 6/7 months of WWECW successful. Whether it was primarily a problem with Vince in control or not, I think he had already given up on the idea by D2D, and decided to change direction. It was his, and he'd do what he wanted, so he inserted his new toy, the original black Cena. No matter how many great ideas Heyman had, it was irrelevant by that point. Vince had moved on, and that was it. That's the problem with having a virtual monopoly on something... even if you're wrong, you're always right.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Did they put a big pad around the lower half of the turnbuckle posts or is that also part of Kane's pyro rig that is on the top of the posts?
 
Somewhat related to this thread, during Guillermo del Toro's panel today for Don't Be Afraid of the Dark, he stated that he'd be interested in making a serious Mexican wrestler vs vampires story.
 
Dashing Cody Rhodes doesn't have the Triforce on his boots anymore! I guess since he's not on the same show as Triple Ganondorf, he doesn't need it.

EDIT: :rofl: That Dashing Cody Rhodes grooming promo was fantastic!
 
So SES vs Big Show is where its at now. Funny that after punk is demasked he already has stubble on his head the next week, and talk about the ZERO buildup flat reveal of Joey Mercury. I really hope this ends with show being destroyed at Summerslam even if it is 3 vs 1.
 
As much as I want to believe in the ECW reunion hype, I still can't wrap my head around why TNA, a company that can't even get their own guys over, is going to waste a PPV trying to get another company over that went out of business 9 years ago. It's the equivalent of them reviving the WCW 6-Man Tag Championships.

When Simon Diamond is a selling point for the angle, there's a problem. As much as I loved Simon (his promos were always entertaining), he was never anything more than a glorified jobber.

Sign Tajiri and Tanaka and I might get excited.
 
Masato Tanaka vs Samoa Joe - With the Wrestling Thread as my witness, I'll buy the PPV.

I'm not convinced that the vocal crowd that Dixie claims to be listening to is clamoring for ECW in particular. I think they (and me to a degree, although I'll never bother telling TNA what I want) want wrestling in their professional wrestling. Nothing more, nothing less. Cut some promos, have guys settle shit in the ring, cut promos afterwards, continue feud as necessary to a logical, satisfying conclusion. Save stipulations for the final match.
 
I read the ECW/TNA posts and want to share my opinion. I haven't caught up on all the posts yet so sorry if I'm being redundant, but I want to post first and then finish reading... I'll post some responses afterwards.

This is why I think the storyline has potential but will probably fail in the end.

Anyway, here's what I think.

#1 - I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to plug a different variable into an equation that has worked before. ECW was eventually a failure, sure... but for a while it was pretty successful. It did fairly well in it's demographic if I recall correctly. Financially, it might have been an epic failure, that's true. But it did start it's own niche in the market, and hence eventually led to it's own "ECW sub-culture". It did become a badge of honor for wrestling nerds. When ECW started televising, it was a big deal from my friends and I. I realize a lot of the younger fans haven't shared in these experiences. I realize how that could create disconnect. Despite the "you had to be there" aspect of it, I still think that any wrestling fan would enjoy what ECW once was.

#2 - Can you bring that back? Short answer; no. Long answer; yes. You can't bring the old ECW back. It'll never be what ECW was... and that's to be expected. Even on the most rudimentary level of understanding, it's simply not what it was. Logically, that's impossible. You'll never get all those wrestlers together (all the old ECW guys are: in WWE, in TNA, in other wrestling companies, working at Denny's, dead, in jail, in rehab, etc). You'd never get them to one show all at once. You can, however, start booking in ECW's spirit. That's something Paul Heyman can do. Although I've heard comparisons with Heyman and ROH's former (?) booker, Gabe Sapolsky, has come class with his booking and understanding of the hardcore smark wrestling consumer.

#3 - In pro wrestling, Invasion angles sometimes work, and other times don't. The WWECW rival was successful for a long time... the first One Night Stand was outstanding. The second One Night Stand was pretty good as well... after that it went downhill... and I know there's plenty of theories as to why that was.. I'm sure most can agree it was simply a failure in providing a marketable rekindling of the old ECW flame.

Some invasions were successful. ROH and PWG (?) had some good cross-promotional matches. The original DX-WCW invasion was great. The post-WCW, post-ECW era invasion had the most potential out of any wrestling storyline up to that point in time, but eventually resulted in a huge crushing blow that basically destroyed WCW and tarnished its' image for WCW fans.

Despite all that, this invasion angle has potential. TNA doesn't need to revive the old ECW as it was... it doesn't need to provide a 1-hour ECW show on SpikeTV every Sunday evening... it does however have the opportunity to put some young talent over while at the same time respectfully waving the ECW flag once more.
 
[quote name='JJSP']Sign Tajiri and Tanaka and I might get excited.[/QUOTE]
They wanted to sign them for the PPV, same with Super Crazy. But I think they're booked during the date already. And there's supposedly a problem with getting them a Work Visa on time.
 
The problem with TNA reviving ECW is this:

Capitalism's failures in the UK in the 1970's created punk rock. An iconoclastic, edgy culture that attracted people who felt dejected or on the fringes of society. It caught on, but rarely did any of those people make money off of the cultural monstrosity they spawned.

Capitalism is an adaptable beast. In response, it co-opted punk culture so as to both present a sterile version of it (new wave, hot topic, avril lavigne, etc.). Nevertheless, there are those who seek to try to catch lightning in a bottle again, failing to realize along the way that they are a parody of the past and a joke to everybody but themselves (Epitaph records, the Warped Tour, anybody who fancies The Casualties, etc.).

In TNA wants to run this show, bully for them. It's undoubtedly an improvement over RVD vs. Abyss, or whatever other 90-mile-per-hour program they're writing a 3-month storyline for and cramming it into a 3-week time frame. In four weeks, they'll still have nothing to build on, they'll still shove Rob Terry down your throat while Homicide is in the same spot Primo fucking Colon is in WWE, they'll still have their shitty brand name, and they'll still give you 3-minute wrestling matches that have fucked-up finishes.

They refuse to face the reality of what fans of their show have been asking of them for 3-4-5 (8?) years, and then they, in turn, have the GALL to say that they're going through with this PPV because the fans demanded it. While I find that rationale positively insulting, given what they have failed to do despite fans goddamn-near-screaming-in-unison for massive changes to the show, production, stars pushed, and format, it's also entirely possible that they are listening to the fans.

And the fans have said "yeah, we're not interested in TNA's PPVs. Give us something else and maybe we'll buy it."

WWE has some major league hubris, but as long as they're profitable, they can afford to. There's no way TNA is a profitable company - the only choice they have, and the only choice they have ignored time and time again, is to listen to the fans that are too goddamned dumb to turn away from them.
 
It's already dead as an invasion angle - the company's president handed control over a PPV to them. This angle is more along the lines of giving up a PPV to celebrate ECW Veteran's Day. I still have no idea why this show isn't going to be in New York - especially after they just had their highest attendance number ever in Brooklyn a few weeks ago.
 
- The Associated Press reported last week that Linda McMahon has loaned her Senate campaign a total of $21,500,000 since it began last year. McMahon has said that she’s willing to spend as much as $50,000,000 of her own money on the campaign.


To me, this proves that people don't want to be in politics to help...they just want the power and prestige. It's why rich people spend millions. Senators only get paid I think 150k a year. So why spend up to 50M?

And then, on top of that...what's her purpose? Sometimes a party will flood money into someone's campaign to stop action from happening, to to start action. What would Linda do?
 
Where the hell is all the buzz about Lucha Libre USA? I just happened to find it on MTV2 while flipping through channels earlier. It seemed strangely Americanized, but it wasn't bad.

They even had Rellik. That's killer spelled backwards.
 
[quote name='Chuplayer']Where the hell is all the buzz about Lucha Libre USA? I just happened to find it on MTV2 while flipping through channels earlier. It seemed strangely Americanized, but it wasn't bad.

They even had Rellik. That's killer spelled backwards.[/QUOTE]
I caught the debut episode last week and thought it was pretty awful. When Rellik and Mark Jindrak are two of the top guys in the company, you know it's bad.

The actual wrestling isn't all that bad, but with MTV's commercials and the stupid segments they put into this show we only get about 6 minutes of actual wrestling.
 
[quote name='Chuplayer']
They even had Rellik. That's killer spelled backwards.[/QUOTE]

Dear god! You've got to be some kind of super cryptologist! :)
 
[quote name='Sigma']I caught the debut episode last week and thought it was pretty awful. When Rellik and Mark Jindrak are two of the top guys in the company, you know it's bad.

The actual wrestling isn't all that bad, but with MTV's commercials and the stupid segments they put into this show we only get about 6 minutes of actual wrestling.[/QUOTE]
Isn't it the same with WWE, except instead of commercials you get wrestlers cutting 10 minute fuckin' promos. That's why I largely stopped watching, since all it was was yappity yap and buildup for the next PPV.

At least WCW used to give you two hours worth of PPV quality matches once a year on free TV(Clash Of The Champions). When was the last time WWE did that?:roll:
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']Isn't it the same with WWE, except instead of commercials you get wrestlers cutting 10 minute fuckin' promos. That's why I largely stopped watching, since all it was was yappity yap and buildup for the next PPV.

At least WCW used to give you two hours worth of PPV quality matches once a year on free TV(Clash Of The Champions). When was the last time WWE did that?:roll:[/QUOTE]
Clash of the Champions was a great concept, but we are going way back with that one. During WCW's most successful era the Clash was long gone.

TNA is also pretty bad about having wrestlers cut promos that go on way too long, but at least with TNA they give us good PPV quality matches in between the promos. Lately all RAW has consisted of is John Cena promos, Nexus beat downs, and the one spark of awesome known as The Miz.
 
I'm not going to lie. I like LL USA. The matches are decent. Actually, something that helps is that they are a bit more faced paced than traditional American wrestling, so if there's a botch or mistake, it's hard to notice since they just keep moving. The segments are great, in a (very) corny way. Especially with Solid and his cookies. As for Rellik and Marco being top guys, it doesn't bother me at all. They aren't being shoved down anyone's throat. They aren't the Cena/Orton of LL. They just happen to be the biggest, strongest looking guys in the promotion.

Edit: Actually something that bothers me is the division of rudos and tecnicos. Why is Charly Malice a face? He's this creepy guy with this depressing white and black face paint. I thought he was supposed to be a heel, and I'm guessing so did the crowd. When he came out, they didn't seem behind him. Then all of a sudden, he's like "Oh yeah, I'm a crowd favorite! Everyone gets a high five! :D". Then the crowd and myself were like "oh... we're supposed to like him." Something else interesting is that they seem to only highlight the signs in the crowd for heels. Last week was the Chi Chi sign, this week was for Rellik. Plus, you have the very vocal heel announcer.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
John Cena's promos, where he speaks on overcoming the odds, are perplexing... seeing as how the odds are always in his favor... so does that mean that he goes out there, week after week, trying to lose... but by some almost divine curse, no matter how hard he tries, he always wins..?

Does John Cena just want to be flawed; Does John Cena just want to be human?
 
bread's done
Back
Top