The Avatar thread!!! A masterpiece :)
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CoffeeEdge
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[quote name='VipFREAK']That's not helping my expectations of it going above Captain EO. I heard (some where) there are ones that actually need batteries to function.[/QUOTE]
You don't need active shutter (aka battery-powered) glasses in a theater, because they can perform active polarization directly out of the projector.
I take it you don't understand much about how 3D projection works, but active shutter really isn't better, or fundamentally different in it's goal, than passive glasses (where the polarization occurs in the projector).
You only need battery-powered/active shutter ones where you can't polarize the image coming out, for instance, on HDTVs at home. For theaters, though, passive/polarized is the way to go.
You don't need active shutter (aka battery-powered) glasses in a theater, because they can perform active polarization directly out of the projector.
I take it you don't understand much about how 3D projection works, but active shutter really isn't better, or fundamentally different in it's goal, than passive glasses (where the polarization occurs in the projector).
You only need battery-powered/active shutter ones where you can't polarize the image coming out, for instance, on HDTVs at home. For theaters, though, passive/polarized is the way to go.
[quote name='dmaul1114']Did your glasses not come sealed in an unopened plastic baggy?[/QUOTE]
Nope, they were big, reusable plastic glasses, the kind you might get at an amusement park. The theater employees brought them out in containers, and told me they had a machine to wash them for reuse. Hence, the waterspots.
And for those of you worrying that the movie will have "Captain Eo quality" 3D...I must say, 3D in the theaters has improved immensely. Because of my vision (I normally wear glasses or contacts) most 3D movies still seem fuzzy to me. And those blue/red lens combos don't work on me at all, they don't even form a distinct image. Captain Eo still looks like crap to me, but Avatar actually looked crisp and clear!
Nope, they were big, reusable plastic glasses, the kind you might get at an amusement park. The theater employees brought them out in containers, and told me they had a machine to wash them for reuse. Hence, the waterspots.
And for those of you worrying that the movie will have "Captain Eo quality" 3D...I must say, 3D in the theaters has improved immensely. Because of my vision (I normally wear glasses or contacts) most 3D movies still seem fuzzy to me. And those blue/red lens combos don't work on me at all, they don't even form a distinct image. Captain Eo still looks like crap to me, but Avatar actually looked crisp and clear!
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']I take it you don't understand much about how 3D projection works, but active shutter really isn't better, or fundamentally different in it's goal, than passive glasses (where the polarization occurs in the projector).[/QUOTE]
All I see is an easy way to sucker people into spending more money for something that I feel is generally like TV glasses and really isn't needed or creating something "new". 3D hasn't worked before and isn't working now (ie Chuck in 3D) and I don't see the whole gaming/tv in 3D at home being any different. It will be even more irritating for someone like me that has to put on a second pair of glasses over my existing pair. yay...
All I see is an easy way to sucker people into spending more money for something that I feel is generally like TV glasses and really isn't needed or creating something "new". 3D hasn't worked before and isn't working now (ie Chuck in 3D) and I don't see the whole gaming/tv in 3D at home being any different. It will be even more irritating for someone like me that has to put on a second pair of glasses over my existing pair. yay...
[quote name='Spacepest']Nope, they were big, reusable plastic glasses, the kind you might get at an amusement park. The theater employees brought them out in containers, and told me they had a machine to wash them for reuse. Hence, the waterspots.
[/QUOTE]
Odd, I went to a real 3D theater, and they came in a sealed baggy, and there was a recycling bin for them outside the auditorium for afterwards.
Did you see it in iMax (per the post above)? If not maybe just a theater trying to up their bottom line by buying less glasses by reusing them rather than giving everyone a new pair.
[/QUOTE]
Odd, I went to a real 3D theater, and they came in a sealed baggy, and there was a recycling bin for them outside the auditorium for afterwards.
Did you see it in iMax (per the post above)? If not maybe just a theater trying to up their bottom line by buying less glasses by reusing them rather than giving everyone a new pair.
[quote name='VipFREAK']All I see is an easy way to sucker people into spending more money for something that I feel is generally like TV glasses and really isn't needed or creating something "new". 3D hasn't worked before and isn't working now (ie Chuck in 3D) and I don't see the whole gaming/tv in 3D at home being any different. It will be even more irritating for someone like me that has to put on a second pair of glasses over my existing pair. yay...[/QUOTE]
3D in the theaters now is MUCH more impressive than it used to be, or what you get in TV shows with the glasses in shows like Chuck. I was skeptical until I saw Coraline in 3D last year, and Avatar was even better.
I've got no raging desire to buy one of the new 3D TV sets when they start coming out. But I will see movies in the theater in 3D when it's an option as it's worth the added price. And you could always keep your glasses from one movie and just buy a regular ticket and re-use the glasses in the future.
As for wearing over the glasses, I wore contacts but my girlfriend had glasses and it was no problem and the Real 3D glasses are made oversized to be able to wear over glasses with no problem.
3D in the theaters now is MUCH more impressive than it used to be, or what you get in TV shows with the glasses in shows like Chuck. I was skeptical until I saw Coraline in 3D last year, and Avatar was even better.
I've got no raging desire to buy one of the new 3D TV sets when they start coming out. But I will see movies in the theater in 3D when it's an option as it's worth the added price. And you could always keep your glasses from one movie and just buy a regular ticket and re-use the glasses in the future.
As for wearing over the glasses, I wore contacts but my girlfriend had glasses and it was no problem and the Real 3D glasses are made oversized to be able to wear over glasses with no problem.
[quote name='dmaul1114']3D in the theaters now is MUCH more impressive than it used to be, or what you get in TV shows with the glasses in shows like Chuck. I was skeptical until I saw Coraline in 3D last year, and Avatar was even better.
I've got no raging desire to buy one of the new 3D TV sets when they start coming out. But I will see movies in the theater in 3D when it's an option as it's worth the added price. And you could always keep your glasses from one movie and just buy a regular ticket and re-use the glasses in the future.
As for wearing over the glasses, I wore contacts but my girlfriend had glasses and it was no problem and the Real 3D glasses are made oversized to be able to wear over glasses with no problem.[/QUOTE]
agreed... dont know if I would be a new 3d tv either...but i definately think its worth the extra price in the theather
I've got no raging desire to buy one of the new 3D TV sets when they start coming out. But I will see movies in the theater in 3D when it's an option as it's worth the added price. And you could always keep your glasses from one movie and just buy a regular ticket and re-use the glasses in the future.
As for wearing over the glasses, I wore contacts but my girlfriend had glasses and it was no problem and the Real 3D glasses are made oversized to be able to wear over glasses with no problem.[/QUOTE]
agreed... dont know if I would be a new 3d tv either...but i definately think its worth the extra price in the theather
sendme
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When the 3D tvs do come out I would check into one if I was looking to buy a new tv however unless all of my tvs no longer work I wont be looking for one. It does have me wondering what is next for the movie theaters. 16:9 was what at first kept the movie theater and home theater different. Well it was one of the things and from what I have read was the biggest. Now that we have widescreen tvs and can view the movies in the screen format they were intended for the theaters needed something new. That is when they started pushing 3D like they have been. Sure it has been around for a long time but now they dont use the red and blue glasses and from what I have read the 3D is better. Once that hits the home market what is next for the movie theaters. Only thing that one can't get is an IMAX screen for their home but them scenes are being put on the BluRays of the movies.
As much as I would like to pick this up on BD when it comes out I'm not sure if I want to. I saw this in 3D and I think that is what really makes this movie. On that note I bet when the 3D TVs do hit the market and the 3D BD of this movie comes out they will be using it to push sales of the TVs.
As much as I would like to pick this up on BD when it comes out I'm not sure if I want to. I saw this in 3D and I think that is what really makes this movie. On that note I bet when the 3D TVs do hit the market and the 3D BD of this movie comes out they will be using it to push sales of the TVs.
I had gone over to a friend's house the other day and he had on Star Wars 1. We started getting into a conversation about it and Avatar. James Cameron doesn't have the knowledge about how things should be and work. I mean, there are things that he did in avatar like the forest, but the things he didn't you could tell like the army that was suppose to wipeout the 8ft. smurfs on crack. They didn't look very professional or like they knew what they were doing. Why things were designed the way they were. Stuff like that.
Personally, I'll always go to the theater, and don't need 3D or other innovations to get me there.
Even with a 50" HDTV and surround sound at home, it just can't match the Huge screen at a big theater, the volume of the sound in the theater (especially living in Condos and having to keep the volume limited) etc.
As for 3D TVs, I really don't see them catching on big time until technology is there that they can work without glasses. Apparently they have 3D displays now that can be used in laptops without glasses. But it wouldn't work in a TV as the viewing angle isn't fixed like a laptop where you can put it in your lap and adust it to the right angle etc.
That hurdle will have to be overcame first IMO. Once you have a 3D TV that doesn't require glasses and has viewing angles on par with current TVs they'll probably start to sell. No need to rush anyway, as most people who have upgraded to HDTVs are in no hurry to buy another TV. A large chunk of the US still hasn't moved on to HD in the first place.
Even with a 50" HDTV and surround sound at home, it just can't match the Huge screen at a big theater, the volume of the sound in the theater (especially living in Condos and having to keep the volume limited) etc.
As for 3D TVs, I really don't see them catching on big time until technology is there that they can work without glasses. Apparently they have 3D displays now that can be used in laptops without glasses. But it wouldn't work in a TV as the viewing angle isn't fixed like a laptop where you can put it in your lap and adust it to the right angle etc.
That hurdle will have to be overcame first IMO. Once you have a 3D TV that doesn't require glasses and has viewing angles on par with current TVs they'll probably start to sell. No need to rush anyway, as most people who have upgraded to HDTVs are in no hurry to buy another TV. A large chunk of the US still hasn't moved on to HD in the first place.
[quote name='VipFREAK']... but the things he didn't you could tell like the army that was suppose to wipeout the 8ft. smurfs on crack. They didn't look very professional or like they knew what they were doing. Why things were designed the way they were. Stuff like that.[/QUOTE]
It wasn't really an army. More a band of mercenaries hired by the mining company and led by an overconfident ex-military guy.
If anything it was probably slight at the incompetence and corruption of military contractors like Blackwater in Iraq.
It wasn't really an army. More a band of mercenaries hired by the mining company and led by an overconfident ex-military guy.
If anything it was probably slight at the incompetence and corruption of military contractors like Blackwater in Iraq.
I prefer Star Wars by a wide margin to Avatar for sure.
But I don't see the problems with Avatar that you're mentioning. The plot was predictable and a bit cliche at times. But it all made sense and had a purpose etc.
The connection between the Navi and Nature.
The greedy mining company trying to destroy it for monetary gain.
The brutal mercenaries hired by the company to force their will on the natives. Not going to be as efficient as a carefully trained army like the Empires Storm Troopers.
It all fit together IMO, so I'm not sure why you think it didn't work, or Cameron did a poor job fitting it all together etc.
But I don't see the problems with Avatar that you're mentioning. The plot was predictable and a bit cliche at times. But it all made sense and had a purpose etc.
The connection between the Navi and Nature.
The greedy mining company trying to destroy it for monetary gain.
The brutal mercenaries hired by the company to force their will on the natives. Not going to be as efficient as a carefully trained army like the Empires Storm Troopers.
It all fit together IMO, so I'm not sure why you think it didn't work, or Cameron did a poor job fitting it all together etc.
The Crotch
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[quote name='dmaul1114']as efficient as a carefully trained army like the Empires Storm Troopers.[/QUOTE]
...
Best quote of the thread?
...
Best quote of the thread?
3D sucks. Washes out colors, costs more, adds little (if anything) to the experience beyond some cheesy B movie stuff, and gives you annoying glasses.
Come back when they can map shit out in a truly revolutionary way, with little space ships flying around my head versus this Sega Master System Zaxxon bullshit.
Come back when they can map shit out in a truly revolutionary way, with little space ships flying around my head versus this Sega Master System Zaxxon bullshit.
DarkNessBear
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I think 3D adds a lot of enjoyment subconsciously. I feel when I see a movie in 3D, when I think back on it I remember it more vividly and it feels like an actual memory. It is a great to experience once in a theater, but I'm not sure it is needed at home on your TV...
But who the
knows - the technology is still fairly new, so we will see in a few years.
But who the
knows - the technology is still fairly new, so we will see in a few years.
redshadow
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Lol @ efficiently trained storm troopers. Storm troopers are just henchman who have been elevated to iconic status because of the fans.
The thing about it is that it all depends who you ask. I love star wars, but my 17 year old step brother hasn't even seen the movies. If you ask the younger generation, THIS is their star wars.
The thing about it is that it all depends who you ask. I love star wars, but my 17 year old step brother hasn't even seen the movies. If you ask the younger generation, THIS is their star wars.
[quote name='VipFREAK']I had gone over to a friend's house the other day and he had on Star Wars 1. We started getting into a conversation about it and Avatar. James Cameron doesn't have the knowledge about how things should be and work.[/QUOTE]
Wow. I don't know how you could use Episode I to highlight how James Cameron doesn't know "how things should be and work".
I love Star Wars and all, but Ep1 is a real train wreck in so many ways.
Wow. I don't know how you could use Episode I to highlight how James Cameron doesn't know "how things should be and work".
I love Star Wars and all, but Ep1 is a real train wreck in so many ways.
[quote name='redshadow']Lol @ efficiently trained storm troopers. Storm troopers are just henchman who have been elevated to iconic status because of the fans.
[/QUOTE]
I mean they were clones bred and trained for the sole purpose of fighting wars. So yeah, they were well organized, trained etc. vs. a band of mercenaries hired by a mining company.
They weren't some kind of flawless military force since they were just the disposable infantry.
But if they could lose to Ewoks, and ViPFREAK thinks Lucas knew what he was doing--as he put it--I don't see how the mercernaries losing to the Navi who were much more advanced than Ewoks is somehow a slight on Cameron.
In any case, it's an example of putting to much thought and scrutiny into a popcorn movie.
[quote name='redshadow']
If you ask the younger generation, THIS is their star wars.[/QUOTE]
Or LOTR for those a bit older than a 17 year old. Avatar does have the chance of becoming a huge franchise like SW with the younger generation if they can keep it going in the sequel(s).
[/QUOTE]
I mean they were clones bred and trained for the sole purpose of fighting wars. So yeah, they were well organized, trained etc. vs. a band of mercenaries hired by a mining company.
They weren't some kind of flawless military force since they were just the disposable infantry.
But if they could lose to Ewoks, and ViPFREAK thinks Lucas knew what he was doing--as he put it--I don't see how the mercernaries losing to the Navi who were much more advanced than Ewoks is somehow a slight on Cameron.
In any case, it's an example of putting to much thought and scrutiny into a popcorn movie.
[quote name='redshadow']
If you ask the younger generation, THIS is their star wars.[/QUOTE]
Or LOTR for those a bit older than a 17 year old. Avatar does have the chance of becoming a huge franchise like SW with the younger generation if they can keep it going in the sequel(s).
CoffeeEdge
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[quote name='VipFREAK']All I see is an easy way to sucker people into spending more money for something that I feel is generally like TV glasses and really isn't needed or creating something "new". 3D hasn't worked before and isn't working now (ie Chuck in 3D) and I don't see the whole gaming/tv in 3D at home being any different. It will be even more irritating for someone like me that has to put on a second pair of glasses over my existing pair. yay...[/QUOTE]
You think this is the same as thating "Chuck 3D" thing?
Yeah, I was right about you not understanding anything about this tech.
[quote name='VipFREAK']Still if you look at Star Wars, Lucas seems like he knew what he was doing with EVERYTHING. How things should be, how things should act, how it should sound, and it's purpose for it being there and the way it looks.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, Lucas had all these really realistic, practical designs, like robots and computers that have to verbally speak with each other to transfer data, and 60-foot-tall quadrupedal robots. Oh, and the fiery combustion explosions and loud sounds in space are a nice, scientifically-accurate touch. And indeed, Lucas' notion of a bunch of teddy bears defeating thousands of armed-to-the-teeth stormtroopers is SO much more reasonable than Cameron's tree-hugging smurfs, am I right? Oh, and when you shoot lasers at each other, they combine into a beam heading straight out that can blow up planets.
Seriously, are youing kidding me? I love Star Wars to death, but it's a gigantic hodgepodge, in terms of design, and nothing even remotely approaching practicality. I'm not sure where people get this idea that Lucas "knew what he was doing," in terms of the cohesiveness of his universe. And if you meant Episode I, and not IV, then sorry, you are a raging psychopath.
I cannot believe that someone is using Star Wars as an example to show that Avatar isn't cohesive, or whatever.
[quote name='dmaul1114']Not going to be as efficient as a carefully trained army like the Empires Storm Troopers.[/QUOTE]
Golden.
You think this is the same as that
ing "Chuck 3D" thing?Yeah, I was right about you not understanding anything about this tech.
[quote name='VipFREAK']Still if you look at Star Wars, Lucas seems like he knew what he was doing with EVERYTHING. How things should be, how things should act, how it should sound, and it's purpose for it being there and the way it looks.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, Lucas had all these really realistic, practical designs, like robots and computers that have to verbally speak with each other to transfer data, and 60-foot-tall quadrupedal robots. Oh, and the fiery combustion explosions and loud sounds in space are a nice, scientifically-accurate touch. And indeed, Lucas' notion of a bunch of teddy bears defeating thousands of armed-to-the-teeth stormtroopers is SO much more reasonable than Cameron's tree-hugging smurfs, am I right? Oh, and when you shoot lasers at each other, they combine into a beam heading straight out that can blow up planets.
Seriously, are you
ing kidding me? I love Star Wars to death, but it's a gigantic hodgepodge, in terms of design, and nothing even remotely approaching practicality. I'm not sure where people get this idea that Lucas "knew what he was doing," in terms of the cohesiveness of his universe. And if you meant Episode I, and not IV, then sorry, you are a raging psychopath.I cannot believe that someone is using Star Wars as an example to show that Avatar isn't cohesive, or whatever.
[quote name='dmaul1114']Not going to be as efficient as a carefully trained army like the Empires Storm Troopers.[/QUOTE]
Golden.
redshadow
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Star Wars Episode 4: How to truly defy the laws of physics.
It's no moon, it's a GIANT HURT BALL. I Call it, the DEATHTICLE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdJDAPDltMM
It's no moon, it's a GIANT HURT BALL. I Call it, the DEATHTICLE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdJDAPDltMM
[quote name='budz']Just saw the 9pm showing. The trailers don't do it justice. I'm still amazed at the epic scope of the visual effects and the lack of a shitty story!
This is the new, at the very least, science fiction movie standard.[/QUOTE]
There...that's the best way to sum up this movie.
This is the new, at the very least, science fiction movie standard.[/QUOTE]
There...that's the best way to sum up this movie.
BoSoxFan900
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I don't get all the hype over the movie. Strip away all of the "HOLY CRAP, LOOK AT THOSE GRAPHICS!!!!" and you're left with something very, very unoriginal. Seriously guys, come on. This is a prettier, bluer Pocahontas.
I just saw it yesterday, and I will admit, it was visually stunning. Probably one of the best-looking movies I've seen in a while, if not ever. I did like the plot, but it wasn't all that great. A guy going into a pod-like thing and becoming something else? Not that great.
But whatever, it's still a 9/10 in my book.
But whatever, it's still a 9/10 in my book.
There were so many things that could have been cut from this movie to save at least an hour like
. The one thing I just couldn't get past was
Didn't I see this already in Return of the Jedi? Total crap.
the entire beginning explaining the dude had a twin brother - who gives a shit?!?! It did NOTHING to set up his character.
that ridiculous cartoon character general (I don't know his name but he was the main bad guy). In this universe or whtever, Earth had made contact with a sentient alien race! This guy is unilaterally in charge of an entire armed forces that was sent into outer space for a mining operation and he is given broad discretion to kill whatever gets in the way? LOL!!! That's a ridiculous premise but they don't stop there - every "soldier" under his command has no problem killing the Navi - just following orders, right? LOL!!!
[quote name='javeryh']There were so many things that could have been cut from this movie to save at least an hour like
. The one thing I just couldn't get past was
Didn't I see this already in Return of the Jedi? Total crap.[/QUOTE]
well theres some flawed logic ya know. one of the things that i kept thinking about is if unobtanium is as valuable as they make it out to be in the movie. theyre just gonna be back in 20 years with a hugeing fleet or ship, 10 times as many soliders and wipe every damn thing off the planet.
the entire beginning explaining the dude had a twin brother - who gives a shit?!?! It did NOTHING to set up his character.
that ridiculous cartoon character general (I don't know his name but he was the main bad guy). In this universe or whtever, Earth had made contact with a sentient alien race! This guy is unilaterally in charge of an entire armed forces that was sent into outer space for a mining operation and he is given broad discretion to kill whatever gets in the way? LOL!!! That's a ridiculous premise but they don't stop there - every "soldier" under his command has no problem killing the Navi - just following orders, right? LOL!!!
well theres some flawed logic ya know. one of the things that i kept thinking about is if unobtanium is as valuable as they make it out to be in the movie. theyre just gonna be back in 20 years with a huge
ing fleet or ship, 10 times as many soliders and wipe every damn thing off the planet.
CoffeeEdge
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[quote name='javeryh']There were so many things that could have been cut from this movie to save at least an hour like
.[/quote]
Were you paying attention at all? The avatar Jake ends up driving was originally intended for Jake's twin brother Tommy (notice how avatars are created more or less exclusively for scientists, like Tommy, rather than soldiers). Tommy is murdered, and rather than waste the millions of dollars invested in his avatar already (remember, they cost millions, take years to grow, and each individual one has to be genetically matched to it's driver), the RDA hires Jake to drive it (since he is genetically identical to Tommy). Yeah, this plot point isn't used for complex family drama or whatever, but it sets up the entire reason Jake goes to Pandora, and has access to an avatar, in the first place. It sure as hell couldn't have been cut, and don't blame the movie because it went over your head.
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']well theres some flawed logic ya know. one of the things that i kept thinking about is if unobtanium is as valuable as they make it out to be in the movie. theyre just gonna be back in 20 years with a hugeing fleet or ship, 10 times as many soliders and wipe every damn thing off the planet.[/QUOTE]
"Flawed logic"? What? The plot ended where it ended. It was a single movie.
The Rebels hadn't defeated the Empire at the end of Star Wars: A New Hope, and had in fact only set themselves up to get hammered harder than ever. Was that movie "flawed logic" as well?
the entire beginning explaining the dude had a twin brother - who gives a shit?!?! It did NOTHING to set up his character.
Were you paying attention at all? The avatar Jake ends up driving was originally intended for Jake's twin brother Tommy (notice how avatars are created more or less exclusively for scientists, like Tommy, rather than soldiers). Tommy is murdered, and rather than waste the millions of dollars invested in his avatar already (remember, they cost millions, take years to grow, and each individual one has to be genetically matched to it's driver), the RDA hires Jake to drive it (since he is genetically identical to Tommy). Yeah, this plot point isn't used for complex family drama or whatever, but it sets up the entire reason Jake goes to Pandora, and has access to an avatar, in the first place. It sure as hell couldn't have been cut, and don't blame the movie because it went over your head.
Remember that the presence on Pandora is entirely corporate, not diplomatic.
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']well theres some flawed logic ya know. one of the things that i kept thinking about is if unobtanium is as valuable as they make it out to be in the movie. theyre just gonna be back in 20 years with a huge
ing fleet or ship, 10 times as many soliders and wipe every damn thing off the planet.[/QUOTE]"Flawed logic"? What? The plot ended where it ended. It was a single movie.
The Rebels hadn't defeated the Empire at the end of Star Wars: A New Hope, and had in fact only set themselves up to get hammered harder than ever. Was that movie "flawed logic" as well?
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Were you paying attention at all? The avatar Jake ends up driving was originally intended for Jake's twin brother Tommy (notice how avatars are created more or less exclusively for scientists, like Tommy, rather than soldiers). Tommy is murdered, and rather than waste the millions of dollars invested in his avatar already (remember, they cost millions, take years to grow, and each individual one has to be genetically matched to it's driver), the RDA hires Jake to drive it (since he is genetically identical to Tommy). Yeah, this plot point isn't used for complex family drama or whatever, but it sets up the entire reason Jake goes to Pandora, and has access to an avatar, in the first place. It sure as hell couldn't have been cut, and don't blame the movie because it went over your head.[/quote]
No, it didn't go over my head - it was an entirely convoluted and unnecessary plot point. Couldn't Jake have been the guy the avatar was originally made for? He could still be an ex-marine and his familiarity (or lack thereof) had no bearing on the movie's plot whatsoever - it didn't matter than he had no training or 1,000 hours of training - he got the hang of it almost instantly. Setting up his twin brother's death in order to get him to Pandora was completely pointless and a giant waste of time.
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Remember that the presence on Pandora is entirely corporate, not diplomatic.[/QUOTE]
That actually makes it worse. Would you ever in a billion years kill a sentient life form that basically looked human and you knew could speak, think independantly and had feelings because your dickhead boss told you to? LOL!!! Now that would be a neat trick at my office.
No, it didn't go over my head - it was an entirely convoluted and unnecessary plot point. Couldn't Jake have been the guy the avatar was originally made for? He could still be an ex-marine and his familiarity (or lack thereof) had no bearing on the movie's plot whatsoever - it didn't matter than he had no training or 1,000 hours of training - he got the hang of it almost instantly. Setting up his twin brother's death in order to get him to Pandora was completely pointless and a giant waste of time.
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Remember that the presence on Pandora is entirely corporate, not diplomatic.[/QUOTE]
That actually makes it worse. Would you ever in a billion years kill a sentient life form that basically looked human and you knew could speak, think independantly and had feelings because your dickhead boss told you to? LOL!!! Now that would be a neat trick at my office.
With all this talk about how it was a ripoff of Pocahontas you think people would also be able to make the connection that this is more or less what happened to the Native Americans. There was no "oh noes the humanity!" when they were killed/moved around in order to expand America. Don't see why *that* of all things in the movie is the hardest to believe.
I would agree that the most pointless thing was the story of his brother. I get that it was supposed to be a way for the loser of the family to finally find his own place in the world but there wasn't much conflict at all in that respect to make it interesting.
I would agree that the most pointless thing was the story of his brother. I get that it was supposed to be a way for the loser of the family to finally find his own place in the world but there wasn't much conflict at all in that respect to make it interesting.
Lord_Kefka
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[quote name='javeryh']No, it didn't go over my head - it was an entirely convoluted and unnecessary plot point. Couldn't Jake have been the guy the avatar was originally made for? He could still be an ex-marine and his familiarity (or lack thereof) had no bearing on the movie's plot whatsoever - it didn't matter than he had no training or 1,000 hours of training - he got the hang of it almost instantly. Setting up his twin brother's death in order to get him to Pandora was completely pointless and a giant waste of time.
That actually makes it worse. Would you ever in a billion years kill a sentient life form that basically looked human and you knew could speak, think independantly and had feelings because your dickhead boss told you to? LOL!!! Now that would be a neat trick at my office.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the getting the hang of it instantly was the "OMG, he's the chosen one!" Jesus/King Arthur/Neo set-up. The magic spores that only attract to pure spirits was only taking the nail and jamming it a little further into your brain to make sure you got it.
I agree with your assessment. Yes, it was more corporate. Which struck an odd balance with me. It seemed to be a hollow representation by Giovanni Ribisi. You could understand a corporation being under P.R. pressure to resolve diplomatically, yet that was never really implied. Instead of having Ribisi show any signs of pressure or stress (obtaining the valuable mineral peacefully vs. forcefully) or having any conflicted emotions , it read to me as him being all about the money at any cost and only pushing peace because the script said so. Plus when Jake gets off the plane at the beginning, he notes the amount of ex-military guys and heavy weaponry they have. The direction of things was never in doubt from the start.
Nevermind the "over your head" comments either. Some people are just dicks.
That actually makes it worse. Would you ever in a billion years kill a sentient life form that basically looked human and you knew could speak, think independantly and had feelings because your dickhead boss told you to? LOL!!! Now that would be a neat trick at my office.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the getting the hang of it instantly was the "OMG, he's the chosen one!" Jesus/King Arthur/Neo set-up. The magic spores that only attract to pure spirits was only taking the nail and jamming it a little further into your brain to make sure you got it.
I agree with your assessment. Yes, it was more corporate. Which struck an odd balance with me. It seemed to be a hollow representation by Giovanni Ribisi. You could understand a corporation being under P.R. pressure to resolve diplomatically, yet that was never really implied. Instead of having Ribisi show any signs of pressure or stress (obtaining the valuable mineral peacefully vs. forcefully) or having any conflicted emotions , it read to me as him being all about the money at any cost and only pushing peace because the script said so. Plus when Jake gets off the plane at the beginning, he notes the amount of ex-military guys and heavy weaponry they have. The direction of things was never in doubt from the start.
Nevermind the "over your head" comments either. Some people are just dicks.
CoffeeEdge
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[quote name='javeryh']No, it didn't go over my head - it was an entirely convoluted and unnecessary plot point. Couldn't Jake have been the guy the avatar was originally made for? He could still be an ex-marine and his familiarity (or lack thereof) had no bearing on the movie's plot whatsoever - it didn't matter than he had no training or 1,000 hours of training - he got the hang of it almost instantly.[/quote]
That's exactly it: why would Jake be the guy they originally made the avatar for? Why him, a random dead-end nobody cripple ex-marine, out of all the millions of people that could go? They don't send random people to drive avatars; each person selected is going for a specific reason. What reason would they send Jake, other than to save the investment they had already made on his brother (who it does make sense that they would select)? What would you suggest, that's better than the twin-brother explanation? He wins theing avatar lottery or something?
That's exactly it: why would Jake be the guy they originally made the avatar for? Why him, a random dead-end nobody cripple ex-marine, out of all the millions of people that could go? They don't send random people to drive avatars; each person selected is going for a specific reason. What reason would they send Jake, other than to save the investment they had already made on his brother (who it does make sense that they would select)? What would you suggest, that's better than the twin-brother explanation? He wins the
ing avatar lottery or something?It's covered in like, the first 3 minutes of a nearly 3-hour movie. You're acting like they spend the first hour talking about it. It's little more than a flashback with a voiceover that explains it in a couple sentences.
You're right. No one has ever hurt or killed anyone because someone told them to. Ever in the history of mankind.
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[quote name='CoffeeEdge']That's exactly it: why would Jake be the guy they originally made the avatar for? Why him, a random dead-end nobody cripple ex-marine, out of all the millions of people that could go? They don't send random people to drive avatars; each person selected is going for a specific reason. What reason would they send Jake, other than to save the investment they had already made on his brother (who it does make sense that they would select)? What would you suggest, that's better than the twin-brother explanation? He wins the ing avatar lottery or something?[/QUOTE]
Why not just have him be an ex-marine who went on to become a brilliant scientist and therefore the avatar was made for him specifically? There's nothing convoluted or unbelievable about that.
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']It's covered in like, the first 3 minutes of a nearly 3-hour movie. You're acting like they spend the first hour talking about it. It's little more than a flashback with a voiceover that explains it in a couple sentences.[/QUOTE]
In a 2 hour and 40 minute movie EVERY minute counts. It was way too long and they at least spent 15 minutes laying the groundwork on his past and setting up his unimportant reason for being on Pandora. There was tons of junk they could have gotten rid of - practically every single scene in the movie could have been trimmed by 5 minutes but god forbid someone in the editing room were to step on James Cameron's massive ego...
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']You're right. No one has ever killed anyone because someone told them to. Ever in the history of mankind.[/QUOTE]
This is clearly not the point and besides, a HUGE group of ex-military personnel would never collectively act this way to benefit a corporation's bottom line. We are led to believe that mankind has evolved to the point where it can travel to other worlds yet this large-scale barbarism can still happen. Also, in order to get all of the equipment and people to Pandora it would cost trillions and trillions of dollars (I wonder what the total profit would even be if this company successfully mined the entire planet). You mean to tell me that a company with that kind of resources would put ONE guy in charge (who seemingly has no board of directors or anyone else to answer to)? Sorry, it's totally unbelievable and completely ridiculous.
ing avatar lottery or something?[/QUOTE]Why not just have him be an ex-marine who went on to become a brilliant scientist and therefore the avatar was made for him specifically? There's nothing convoluted or unbelievable about that.
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']It's covered in like, the first 3 minutes of a nearly 3-hour movie. You're acting like they spend the first hour talking about it. It's little more than a flashback with a voiceover that explains it in a couple sentences.[/QUOTE]
In a 2 hour and 40 minute movie EVERY minute counts. It was way too long and they at least spent 15 minutes laying the groundwork on his past and setting up his unimportant reason for being on Pandora. There was tons of junk they could have gotten rid of - practically every single scene in the movie could have been trimmed by 5 minutes but god forbid someone in the editing room were to step on James Cameron's massive ego...
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']You're right. No one has ever killed anyone because someone told them to. Ever in the history of mankind.[/QUOTE]
This is clearly not the point and besides, a HUGE group of ex-military personnel would never collectively act this way to benefit a corporation's bottom line. We are led to believe that mankind has evolved to the point where it can travel to other worlds yet this large-scale barbarism can still happen. Also, in order to get all of the equipment and people to Pandora it would cost trillions and trillions of dollars (I wonder what the total profit would even be if this company successfully mined the entire planet). You mean to tell me that a company with that kind of resources would put ONE guy in charge (who seemingly has no board of directors or anyone else to answer to)? Sorry, it's totally unbelievable and completely ridiculous.
[quote name='javeryh']Finally saw this. Total garbage, IMO. The special effects were indeed special but everything else was a total mess. It was also at least an hour too long. Ugh.[/QUOTE]
to each his own.
atleast meta critic disagrees
84%
http://www.metacritic.com/film/titles/avatar?q=avatar
and IMDB 8.5 stars
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0499549/
to each his own.
atleast meta critic disagrees
84%http://www.metacritic.com/film/titles/avatar?q=avatar
and IMDB 8.5 stars
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0499549/
CoffeeEdge
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[quote name='javeryh']Why not just have him be an ex-marine who went on to become a brilliant scientist and therefore the avatar was made for him specifically? There's nothing convoluted or unbelievable about that.[/quote]
Because he would then be an entirely different character, and that's not the character Cameron wanted to write. Not that goddamn hard to understand.
You're seriously sitting here acting like him becoming a genius scientist is less complex and more easily believable, or would be faster to convey, than him having a twin brother who he's stepping in for. You fail so much good GOD.
This was aing fictional movie, not a history documentary. You're bitching that it wasn't feasible? I call that contempt for fiction itself.
Because he would then be an entirely different character, and that's not the character Cameron wanted to write. Not that goddamn hard to understand.
You're seriously sitting here acting like him becoming a genius scientist is less complex and more easily believable, or would be faster to convey, than him having a twin brother who he's stepping in for. You fail so much good GOD.
Can ex-military people not be evil, or something? I was unaware of this Law of Fiction.
Glad to know that you are so positive about what is possible 150 years into a fictional future.
This was a
ing fictional movie, not a history documentary. You're bitching that it wasn't feasible? I call that contempt for fiction itself.[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Because he would then be an entirely different character, and that's not the character Cameron wanted to write. Not that goddamn hard to understand.
You're seriously sitting here acting like him becoming a genius scientist is less complex and more easily believable, or would be faster to convey, than him having a twin brother who he's stepping in for. You fail so much good GOD.[/quote]
LOL. So what? It wouldn't make a difference because the "character" of Jake was completely devoid of any personality. The fact that he had no legs - didn't matter. The fact that he had a twin brother - didn't matter. The fact that he was an ex-marine... hmmm maybe that one mattered because you could see why he would listen to the general at first. Other than that one fact, I cannot think of a single character trait that this guy was supposed to have that meant anything. He didn't go through any sort of personal journey or overcome any hardships (on a personal level) - he was just there. The fact that he had no legs could have been interesting if they had dealt with it in any meaningful way but they didn't. It could have been anyone in that role - brilliant scientist, evil twin brother, an armless midget - it didn't matter because his character was horribly written! I felt absolutely nothing towards him (the Uhura Navi chick was much much better though - I actually related to her story arc).
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Can ex-military people not be evil, or something? I was unaware of this Law of Fiction.[/quote]
One or two guys could maybe start hatching evil plans for world domination but is is just not plausible that they would get hundreds of corporate soldiers to follow orders to kill everyone and everything. It's just not. Maybe in an Austin Powers movie...
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Glad to know that you are so positive about what is possible 150 years into a fictional future.
This was aing fictional movie, not a history documentary. You're bitching that it wasn't feasible? I call that contempt for fiction itself.[/QUOTE]
Wrong. I can suspend disbelief for just about anything - especially science fiction since it is by far my favorite genre - but everything has to make sense in the universe that is created for me to buy into the whole thing. Maybe if they had established what the conditions were like on Earth (or where ever the humans were from - I'm not sure it was ever stated but we are definitely led to believe that they are from Earth) or the motivation behind the mining other than for profit. Maybe the unobtainium cures cancer or some widespread fictional disease - I don't know - but something to give weight to what the "bad guys" were doing. I could buy into an entire armed forces acting this way to save the human race but to make some money (arguably - I'm not sure any could possibly be made considering the cost to get everyone and everything to Pandora)? C'mon - it is ridiculous. This movie completely fails.
You're seriously sitting here acting like him becoming a genius scientist is less complex and more easily believable, or would be faster to convey, than him having a twin brother who he's stepping in for. You fail so much good GOD.[/quote]
LOL. So what? It wouldn't make a difference because the "character" of Jake was completely devoid of any personality. The fact that he had no legs - didn't matter. The fact that he had a twin brother - didn't matter. The fact that he was an ex-marine... hmmm maybe that one mattered because you could see why he would listen to the general at first. Other than that one fact, I cannot think of a single character trait that this guy was supposed to have that meant anything. He didn't go through any sort of personal journey or overcome any hardships (on a personal level) - he was just there. The fact that he had no legs could have been interesting if they had dealt with it in any meaningful way but they didn't. It could have been anyone in that role - brilliant scientist, evil twin brother, an armless midget - it didn't matter because his character was horribly written! I felt absolutely nothing towards him (the Uhura Navi chick was much much better though - I actually related to her story arc).
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Can ex-military people not be evil, or something? I was unaware of this Law of Fiction.[/quote]
One or two guys could maybe start hatching evil plans for world domination but is is just not plausible that they would get hundreds of corporate soldiers to follow orders to kill everyone and everything. It's just not. Maybe in an Austin Powers movie...
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Glad to know that you are so positive about what is possible 150 years into a fictional future.
This was a
ing fictional movie, not a history documentary. You're bitching that it wasn't feasible? I call that contempt for fiction itself.[/QUOTE]Wrong. I can suspend disbelief for just about anything - especially science fiction since it is by far my favorite genre - but everything has to make sense in the universe that is created for me to buy into the whole thing. Maybe if they had established what the conditions were like on Earth (or where ever the humans were from - I'm not sure it was ever stated but we are definitely led to believe that they are from Earth) or the motivation behind the mining other than for profit. Maybe the unobtainium cures cancer or some widespread fictional disease - I don't know - but something to give weight to what the "bad guys" were doing. I could buy into an entire armed forces acting this way to save the human race but to make some money (arguably - I'm not sure any could possibly be made considering the cost to get everyone and everything to Pandora)? C'mon - it is ridiculous. This movie completely fails.
CoffeeEdge
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Yeah whatever, you have totally pwnt this movie man YOU JUST DEFEATED AVATAR WITH YOUR AMAZING REASONING. Why don't you go make some enthralling threads about whether or not to touch a woman or something.
[quote name='javeryh']LOL. So what? It wouldn't make a difference because the "character" of Jake was completely devoid of any personality. The fact that he had no legs - didn't matter. The fact that he had a twin brother - didn't matter. The fact that he was an ex-marine... hmmm maybe that one mattered because you could see why he would listen to the general at first. Other than that one fact, I cannot think of a single character trait that this guy was supposed to have that meant anything.[/quote]
Cool story, sorry you feel that way.
is wrong with you?
Look, I get it, you must have some relative in the armed forces or something and you're getting all offended that this movie is implying that soldiers could ever be capable of evil or whatever. Enough already.
[quote name='javeryh']LOL. So what? It wouldn't make a difference because the "character" of Jake was completely devoid of any personality. The fact that he had no legs - didn't matter. The fact that he had a twin brother - didn't matter. The fact that he was an ex-marine... hmmm maybe that one mattered because you could see why he would listen to the general at first. Other than that one fact, I cannot think of a single character trait that this guy was supposed to have that meant anything.[/quote]
Cool story, sorry you feel that way.
Doesn't go on a personal journey? He was the definition of the hero myth, the classical character journey.
So, movies aren't allowed to have lots of evil bad guys. What the
is wrong with you?They make it pretty obvious that it's gone to shit.
RDA (the corporation in the movie) is only in mining unobtanium, to sell it for profit. They're a corporation. That's what they do.
It's a super-efficient superconductor, and is the foundation of all earth electrical infrastructure, and interstellar travel.
They are BAD GUYS following orders from other BAD GUYS.
Look, I get it, you must have some relative in the armed forces or something and you're getting all offended that this movie is implying that soldiers could ever be capable of evil or whatever. Enough already.
No, you fail.
The Crotch
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Gentlemen! Please!
There's no need to white knight for something that doesn't have breasts.
There's no need to white knight for something that doesn't have breasts.
Matt Young
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I walked over and saw this film at the Regal Cinema in LA Live last night after the Kings game, and God damn, was it awesome. The movie itself was pretty good but not great, but the visuals- and this was my first 3D movie- were mind blowing. I can't wait till 3D becomes the standard, and more old movies start getting redone in 3D.
As I said, it was a good movie, but even in high def Blu-Ray, it won't come close to matching the experience of seeing it in the theater in 3D.
As I said, it was a good movie, but even in high def Blu-Ray, it won't come close to matching the experience of seeing it in the theater in 3D.
sendme
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I really don't want my movies in 3D this however was really good in 3D and I think the only way I can watch it is in 3D. So I can do with out the older movies in 3D however their are talks about making the next 3 Alien movies that take place before the first one in 3D. I think they might be worth it.
bread's done