The Fabulous Moolah Memorial Wrestling Topic

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[quote name='Zenithian Legend']That shirt though... very... flamboyant, even for Y2J.[/QUOTE]

To be fair, I think he used to wear that very vest way back when, in WCW and WWF.

I'm really let down by his return. Uninspired WWE-style promo, only saved by his excitement and charisma. But just lacking on so many levels. Blah.

Welcome back, indeed.

Bo-ring.

Dude looks like a less world-weary Gordon Ramsay.
gordon_ramsay_celebrity_chef.jpg
 
[quote name='Demolition Man']http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9wdVZT8P00

I most likely will reencode this to not look so bad tommorow. But enjoy for tonight for those who missed it.[/quote]
Removed by user?

Here's his debut for those that missed it:

[media]http://youtube.com/watch?v=gFX7_4uTqhI[/media]

I remember when this happened.. I was in 8th grade, I believe. It was awesome.
 
Jericho's return was a mixed bag - his promo was fun, but ultimately unmemorable, and the crowd went from chanting Y2J with a great deal of passion to sitting on their hands waiting for him to speak. I'm interested in seeing if it spiked ratings.
 
[quote name='JaytheGamefan']Jericho's return was a mixed bag - his promo was fun, but ultimately unmemorable, and the crowd went from chanting Y2J with a great deal of passion to sitting on their hands waiting for him to speak. I'm interested in seeing if it spiked ratings.[/QUOTE]

This week? You bet.
Next week? You bet.
Two months from now? We'll see. The short term bumps are ultimately meaningless if they don't stay there. I predict them surpassing 4.0 this week, but they'll be back to 3.5 or lower by mid-December.
 
[quote name='Demolition Man']The video just got flagged. Therefore I removed it before YouTube officially removed it.[/QUOTE]

WWE writers need WWE legal's work ethic.
 
Overall, I'm happy that he's back, but I completely disagree with where they put him.

I understand the very simple reason that Orton has no one else to feud with, but throwing Jericho right into the title picture was a bad move.

Obviously, there's going to be a storyline and a match. Regardless of the outcome, one of these guys loses credibility. Orton, if he lost, would have yet another unmemorable championship reign where he generally got his ass kicked, and no definitive victories over anyone. They desperately need Orton to seem threatening and monstrous, as he's what's holding the brand together right now.

Now, if Jericho loses, that seems like a fairly obvious loss of credibility. The 'saviour' defeated? Yeah, that'll work.


Though, at the same time, I also have no useful suggestions of where else to have put him. Every other main event talent is face, and heel turns for either HHH or HBK wouldn't work. Kennedy would be great for the mic work, but with how buried he's been, there'd be no threat or any sense of Jericho having 'beaten' someone. Then... well... there's no one else.


On that note, I'm curious as to how the Jericho return would've factored in if Cena hasn't been injured. Obviously Jericho's return was planned before the injury, so where would Cena have stood in all of this? Would they really have let Orton keep the belt this long, would they let Cena distance himself from the belt? Not sure how that would've been handled.

Ok, rambled enough now.
 
[quote name='carthitup']Orton, if he lost, would have yet another unmemorable championship reign where he generally got his ass kicked, and no definitive victories over anyone.[/QUOTE]

It's interesting that you think that, as it shows either that you're a super jaded fan, like myself, or that there is something so incredibly wrong or shortsighted with the way the WWE promotes wrestlers and feuds that Orton's current title reign is meaningless and completely throwaway. He's beaten Cena and HBK by now, and I can't recall who else....ideally, that should be *far* from meaningless. Right?

Hmm.
 
That was kinda weird. They were all like "YEEEEEEEEEEEEAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!" and when he showed up, they're like "yeah.. woo.."

I love fan cams though. Especially the clip of TNA announcing Angle's arrival. Anyone have that?

The only one I can find is this one: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZdNZsOFEaTs

That's of his first appearance in TNA, but i'm looking for the fan cam from the PPV where they run the "It's DAMN real" video/announce his arrival in TNA.
 
[quote name='guyver2077']nice shitty live cam [/quote]
Watching it again, they really went about it the wrong way.

They should have had the runner make his way into the building, and then cut to the ring. After a minute of awkward waiting with no runner in sight, JR/King would be all like "Where's the runner? Where's the runner?"

Then it goes black, and cuts to the video promo. Lights come up, Jericho is in his pose, holding the torch. Then he could dramatically kneel and put it out on the ground.

After months of hype, they ruined the surprise minutes before it actually occurred.
 
Dayom.... I just saw this while looking for the fancam of the Angle announcement. This is Jeff Jarrett's back after the match he had against Samoa Joe from the No Surrender 2006 PPV. The stipulation was that they had fans outside the ring with belts.

[media]http://youtube.com/watch?v=dggHhrWmiy0[/media]
 
That ending kicked so much ass tonight. Y2J is awesome. I actually know him and my friend went to his wedding in Canada. I haven't spoken to either of them in awhile. Never really thought he'd want to come back. Jericho was absolutely right, and as I've told myke and others in past in this forum/topic(s), Orton absolutely sucks. As a heel he's slightly tolerable, but overall he just sucks. He has little to no charisma. I look at him and I'm bored. Thank God Jericho's back. At least, as he put it, he brings back the intensity, the electricity and breaks the monotony that is Orton. I still am disappointed by the WWE for taking down HBK again. fuck Orton. Let HBK win, and then he and Jericho could have had at it. It would have been interesting to see Jericho and Cena. That would make for some interesting matches there. At least they have a nice line into the matches with Orton in how boring he is.
 
While the biggest smile was on my face when Y2J came out, I have to say that the night belonged to Kennedy. The remarks about how Shawn Michaels was all about losing, and then mentioning that Shawn "lost his smile" was awesome.
 
After sleeping on it, I've come to realize that Jericho was probably waiting for this as long as everyone else and he was probably ultra excited when he went out and cut that promo. The thing is I hope Jericho realizes where the promo fell flat and he works to fix those things, namely introducing and correctly using 'The Dramatic Pause' in his promos. He really was going way too fast for the audience and his demeanor and wording was way too over the top.

Regarding Orton, I think he has finally come into his own. He seemed green for the longest, longest time but since he teamed with Edge in Rated RKO, he finally seemed to find his comfort level. I remember when they were trying to push him as the next Rock and it wasn't working. Now he is doing things that belong completely to him and round out the Randy Orton character. The fist punching push-up in preparation for the RKO is an awesome visual and it's completely Orton's.

The thing I like about Orton's character is the fact that he doesn't need to cheat to win. He went into Survivor Series knowing he could beat HBK and the story told between the two wrestlers was pretty interesting and the way Orton caught HBK with the RKO was picture perfect. There was literally just a 1 second pause after where HBK almost went for the Superkick and Orton just nailed Michaels with the RKO. Every single time Michaels tried something new, the Sharpshooter, the Crossface, the Ankle Lock, the first time he would try the move he would catch Orton in it - but whenever Michaels would go for that move a second time, Orton would immediately counter out of it.

It showed Orton as an intelligent wrestler and learning and growing during the course of the match, even if he is playing the role of a heel. I mean how long has it been since we've seen an intelligent heel who wants to prove that he is better than everyone else and wants to do it clean? As far as I've concerned, there is a lot of room for growth in Orton's current championship run and I expect to probably see it go till Wrestlemania.
 
That Jericho segement was cool, but it would have been better if he had just went to the ring and beat the shit out of Orton without saying anything.
 
[quote name='Iron Clad Burrito']While the biggest smile was on my face when Y2J came out, I have to say that the night belonged to Kennedy. The remarks about how Shawn Michaels was all about losing, and then mentioning that Shawn "lost his smile" was awesome.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. That Kennedy promo was phenomenal. Since he's so over the top most of the time, it is that much more effective when he's subdued.

Plus, unlike any other top tier guy in the WWE, he sells for more than 30 seconds after the match. Randy Orton's makeup doesn't count.
 
After watching his first debut promo again, its actually quite eerie how simmilar the one last night was. Really the only difference between the two was that people aren't supposed to like who he delivered it to this time.
 
[quote name='Bezerker']Man, why'd he cut his hair. It took away from the flamboyance, now he looks kinda fruity.[/quote]
Cause he's a family man now.

[quote name='carthitup']Orton, if he lost, would have yet another unmemorable championship reign where he generally got his ass kicked, and no definitive victories over anyone.[/quote]
Um, wasn't that how Jericho's Undisputed Title reign went too.

As for Y2J returning, sounds clearly like the crowd was happy to see him but WWE really dropped the ball on him returning after 2 months of promos. It's much like when Lesnar was leaving for the NFL after WM 20:)rofl:), everybody in that arena knew that it was him that was returning so it wasn't much of a surprise. I think the only thing that would get a loud pop from the crowd right now is if The Rock returned(yeah, I know that isn't happening, but one can wish) just cause it's something no one would expect.

Guess I called it last week with saying that they'd stick him in a feud with Orton. My guess is that Jericho asked for a title feud as soon as he returns as part of the deal on him coming back. Still, kinda crappy that it's going to be at one of their worst PPVs of the year, Armageddon.
 
It'll be interesting to see Jericho in what seems to be the top face position on Raw. He's been a "big face" in the past, but always in the shadow or Rock or Austin. Now he really gets the spotlight. Should be fun! I have a feeling he was genuinely touched last night when he said "you remembered!"
 
Y2J's return was electrifying, and I marked out a li'l.

The only thing I didn't like was that his promo was just cookie cut; almost as bad as The Rock's face material...

On second thought, nothing is ever that bad.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']It's interesting that you think that, as it shows either that you're a super jaded fan, like myself, or that there is something so incredibly wrong or shortsighted with the way the WWE promotes wrestlers and feuds that Orton's current title reign is meaningless and completely throwaway. He's beaten Cena and HBK by now, and I can't recall who else....ideally, that should be *far* from meaningless. Right?

Hmm.[/quote]
You mention Cena... and therein lies the first problem. With Cena getting injured, Orton didn't get the rub from beating the 'man who held the title for a year'. They can claim all they want that Orton took out Cena, but anyone with half a brain knows that Cena took Cena out, and even if not, it was Kennedy. Orton didn't do a damn thing. Hell, they even announced it on WWE.com that he was injured *during* the match.

So, what... Orton doesn't get the rub from Cena, then gets handed the belt. He then proceeds to lose to HHH 10 minutes after gaining the title. Then, of course, HHH defends it successfully, only to lose to Orton after a (thanks, JR) hellacious match with Umaga. So... thus far, Orton has been handed a title, lost to the main face of the brand ALREADY, then regained the title by sheer virtue of the fact that HHH already got pretty destroyed by Umaga. That was the whole storyline... they'd never have HHH put over Orton clean at that point.

So, what... ok, he hasn't taken out Cena, gotten buried by HHH, and gained a title through being 'less tired' than the other guy.

That brings us to HBK. For 5 straight weeks, Orton got kicked in the head by HBK looked weak because of it. That's a strong heel champ there, huh? Then, of course, proving he's the better man, Orton FINALLY gets the upper hand on HBK... by adding in a ridiculous stipulation at the last minute. The match finish, of course, was booked in a way so that it was obvious HBK should've won, only to have Orton win because of the stipulation.

So, whether your post was in jest or not, there it is. Orton hasn't earned anything, and isn't a credible champion. Why was HHH a credible heel champ? He DESTROYED people. Demolished, buried, whatever. He won frequently and decisively, making his character all the stronger for it. When HHH got beat (before the whole Cena thing) it MEANT something. When Benoit made HHH tap at 20, it was a big deal. Not only did Benoit achieve the dream, he was put over cleanly by the guy who doesn't do that for anyone... and to tap, too! Benoit made HHH quit, and it was a huge deal.

Orton has none of that. He hasn't been destroying people, he's been sqeaking by... and I'm tired of this 'cowardly heel' shit. Look, WWE, you've already got one of those, and Edge does it WAY better than Orton ever could.

What they did last night worked... just have Orton start randomly RKOing people. Be dominant. As it stands, if Jericho goes over on Orton, will it really mean anything? When Cena comes back in the inevitable feud with Orton, does anyone think Orton has a chance?

So, that's the million dollar question. Orton's booking has been terrible thus far, and I don't see it getting much better with Jericho now in the picture. What if Cena had put him over? Would it have changed anything? Would Cena have still looked like Superman, and get pinned by chance? It really doesn't matter now, but from the moment Cena went down, Orton went with him. The build-up to that feud was great, with Orton really looking like a destructive bad guy... and that was all gone with a pectoral injury, and HHH.
 
Benoit's victory over Triple H and his subsequent successful defenses against him were freaking amazing. Possibly my second favorite 3-4 month span of time in wrestling history. My overall favorite was Cactus Jack's pursuit of Triple H's championship back in late '99/early 2000.
 
[quote name='carthitup']So, what... ok, he hasn't taken out Cena, gotten buried by HHH, and gained a title through being 'less tired' than the other guy.

That brings us to HBK. For 5 straight weeks, Orton got kicked in the head by HBK looked weak because of it. That's a strong heel champ there, huh? Then, of course, proving he's the better man, Orton FINALLY gets the upper hand on HBK... by adding in a ridiculous stipulation at the last minute. The match finish, of course, was booked in a way so that it was obvious HBK should've won, only to have Orton win because of the stipulation.[/QUOTE]To be fair, very few heels are ever booked to get mostly clean wins. Heel HHH was a relatively rare case. The exception is usually made for the big-man "monster" type heels, but I don't think any of us really want that.

With that said, I do agree that they wasted a great chance to give someone a rub with Cena. It always feels wrong when they simply announce an injury and have someone give up a title. A great example of the RIGHT way to do handle an injury was when Edge won the Smackdown title from Undertaker earlier this year (he cashed in the Money In The Bank and won the belt in sneaky heelish fashion, and then 'Taker just disappeared for a while). And another example of the WRONG way to handle this, ironically, was when Edge lost that title. They just announced his injury point blank and had him hand over the belt. It's even more anticlimactic and awkward with a heel!
 
[quote name='Bezerker']Man, why'd he cut his hair. It took away from the flamboyance, now he looks kinda fruity.[/quote]

I wouldn't say fruity, but I agree that he shouldn't have cut his hair. What was really fruity was that sequence vest, but I guess if he only wears it once I can live with it.
 
[quote name='carthitup']You mention Cena... and therein lies the first problem. With Cena getting injured, Orton didn't get the rub from beating the 'man who held the title for a year'. They can claim all they want that Orton took out Cena, but anyone with half a brain knows that Cena took Cena out, and even if not, it was Kennedy. Orton didn't do a damn thing. Hell, they even announced it on WWE.com that he was injured *during* the match.

So, what... Orton doesn't get the rub from Cena, then gets handed the belt. He then proceeds to lose to HHH 10 minutes after gaining the title. Then, of course, HHH defends it successfully, only to lose to Orton after a (thanks, JR) hellacious match with Umaga. So... thus far, Orton has been handed a title, lost to the main face of the brand ALREADY, then regained the title by sheer virtue of the fact that HHH already got pretty destroyed by Umaga. That was the whole storyline... they'd never have HHH put over Orton clean at that point.

So, what... ok, he hasn't taken out Cena, gotten buried by HHH, and gained a title through being 'less tired' than the other guy.

That brings us to HBK. For 5 straight weeks, Orton got kicked in the head by HBK looked weak because of it. That's a strong heel champ there, huh? Then, of course, proving he's the better man, Orton FINALLY gets the upper hand on HBK... by adding in a ridiculous stipulation at the last minute. The match finish, of course, was booked in a way so that it was obvious HBK should've won, only to have Orton win because of the stipulation.

So, whether your post was in jest or not, there it is. Orton hasn't earned anything, and isn't a credible champion. Why was HHH a credible heel champ? He DESTROYED people. Demolished, buried, whatever. He won frequently and decisively, making his character all the stronger for it. When HHH got beat (before the whole Cena thing) it MEANT something. When Benoit made HHH tap at 20, it was a big deal. Not only did Benoit achieve the dream, he was put over cleanly by the guy who doesn't do that for anyone... and to tap, too! Benoit made HHH quit, and it was a huge deal.

Orton has none of that. He hasn't been destroying people, he's been sqeaking by... and I'm tired of this 'cowardly heel' shit. Look, WWE, you've already got one of those, and Edge does it WAY better than Orton ever could.

What they did last night worked... just have Orton start randomly RKOing people. Be dominant. As it stands, if Jericho goes over on Orton, will it really mean anything? When Cena comes back in the inevitable feud with Orton, does anyone think Orton has a chance?

So, that's the million dollar question. Orton's booking has been terrible thus far, and I don't see it getting much better with Jericho now in the picture. What if Cena had put him over? Would it have changed anything? Would Cena have still looked like Superman, and get pinned by chance? It really doesn't matter now, but from the moment Cena went down, Orton went with him. The build-up to that feud was great, with Orton really looking like a destructive bad guy... and that was all gone with a pectoral injury, and HHH.[/quote]
Did you watch Orton's post match reaction to HBK from Sunday? The character clearly acts as if he has a chip on his shoudler, regardless of whether he plays the heel. All you're doing is looking at the win/loss record and not watching the story told in the match. Orton is learning, improving, growing, and responding to the tactics of his opponents and looking smarter for it. HBK couldn't land any move a second time, because regardless of what the move was, over the course of the match Orton would learn the tactic HBK was using and quickly counter it.

Yes he did make HBK give up the Superkick, but he also didn't cheat to win the match. His character held true to the idea that he could beat HBK clean, if, and yes that is an asterick the Orton character is willing to live with, if HBK couldn't use the Superkick. Unlike Edge who is straight up a douchebag heel who doesn't care how he wins, the Orton character seems have some sense of pride to him, almost in the same way heel Austin had a sense of pride back in the day when Austin was taunting Bret Hart to return to the WWE freely proclaiming to anyone who would listen that he could beat Hitman clean.

Anyway, I hated the goddamn HHH era and I hate Superman pushes in general because they usually lead to stale match-ups. This is by far more interesting to watch.
 
[quote name='BustaUppa']It'll be interesting to see Jericho in what seems to be the top face position on Raw. He's been a "big face" in the past, but always in the shadow or Rock or Austin. Now he really gets the spotlight. Should be fun! I have a feeling he was genuinely touched last night when he said "you remembered!"[/quote]

Oh, he definitely was. Jericho's a huge wrestling fan, etc.

[quote name='tangytangerine']Cause he's a family man now.


Um, wasn't that how Jericho's Undisputed Title reign went too.

As for Y2J returning, sounds clearly like the crowd was happy to see him but WWE really dropped the ball on him returning after 2 months of promos. It's much like when Lesnar was leaving for the NFL after WM 20:)rofl:), everybody in that arena knew that it was him that was returning so it wasn't much of a surprise. I think the only thing that would get a loud pop from the crowd right now is if The Rock returned(yeah, I know that isn't happening, but one can wish) just cause it's something no one would expect.

Guess I called it last week with saying that they'd stick him in a feud with Orton. My guess is that Jericho asked for a title feud as soon as he returns as part of the deal on him coming back. Still, kinda crappy that it's going to be at one of their worst PPVs of the year, Armageddon.[/quote]


If The Rock were to return it would be the greatest thing to happen in wrestling in the past oh 5 or so years. And throw in Mankind/Cactus Jack/Mick Foley (not crappy Mick Foley like they've been having him)/Dude Love and you've got gold. I want The Rock and Sock Connection again. The Rock and Jericho. The Rock against Cena would be an unbelievable match. The two of them as a main title at WM. One can only dream.
 
[quote name='hiccupleftovers']If The Rock were to return it would be the greatest thing to happen in wrestling in the past oh 5 or so years. And throw in Mankind/Cactus Jack/Mick Foley (not crappy Mick Foley like they've been having him)/Dude Love and you've got gold. I want The Rock and Sock Connection again. The Rock and Jericho. The Rock against Cena would be an unbelievable match. The two of them as a main title at WM. One can only dream.[/quote]
Oh look!

It's someone living in the past!
 
CNN just showed a clip of Ric Flair, since he's going to be doing some campaigning for Mike Huckabee (yeah, Flair really emanates those family values of Huckabee :rofl:)...the clip of him was old enough that I spied a green-haired Shane Helms in the background.

Yowza stock footage.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']The hell with Rock and Sock, let's get some Rock and Santino![/QUOTE]

I'll second you on this. Even if The Rock comes back only to do mic work with Santino... the rub from that alone would be absolutely HUGE for Santino. Between Santino, the return of Jericho, and how great Orton/Kennedy/HBK/Jeff Hardy has been as of lately.... I'm finally getting back into watching RAW again. :applause:
 
[quote name='JaytheGamefan']YES! Shelton's on ECW, and paired up with Burke, his lack of outward charisma shouldn't be too big of a problem for him. Bye, bye, Haas.[/QUOTE]

This actually is pretty nice, as he used to be one of my favorites when they actually used him. I still remember when he jumped off the top rope into a superkick from HBK on RAW. That was one of the best HOLY SHI-! moments I've seen on RAW in a long time. hopefully they actually use him for something good as he's basically been buried ever since they momma's boy angle.
 
[quote name='Zen Davis']Oh look!

It's someone living in the past![/quote]

:lol:;)

What can I say, it's hard for me to see what wrestling has become since its glory days. Of course I still watch it, but it is painful and nowhere near as good as it once was. *shocked* Sometimes I'll even skip a week.

[quote name='Demolition Man']I'll second you on this. Even if The Rock comes back only to do mic work with Santino... the rub from that alone would be absolutely HUGE for Santino. Between Santino, the return of Jericho, and how great Orton/Kennedy/HBK/Jeff Hardy has been as of lately.... I'm finally getting back into watching RAW again. :applause:[/quote]

That would be great. Shoot, Rock and Carlito would be an unstoppable combo. Carlito kicks ass and they under utilize him. They also put him in joke matches with Hornswoggle, though I do enjoy the Hornswoggle character for some reason.
 
Just finished watching the TNA Year 1 DVD. I'll write an review on it within a day or two but in short this DVD is well worth buying. Lots of great stories about the first year, some neat previously unseen footage from behind the scenes, and for those like me who paid $10 a week for the PPVs its a nice trip down memory lane. Even if you didn't experience the first year as it happened you certainly will enjoy this DVD.
 
WWE.com says that Matt Hardy had to have an emergency appendectomy and will be out for 1-3 months. Hopefully it's closer to the one month mark. I don't want to see them drop the MVP feud just yet, which seems unlikely considering they make it sound like the attack from MVP might have caused this.
 
[quote name='pitfallharry219']WWE.com says that Matt Hardy had to have an emergency appendectomy and will be out for 1-3 months. Hopefully it's closer to the one month mark. I don't want to see them drop the MVP feud just yet, which seems unlikely considering they make it sound like the attack from MVP might have caused this.[/QUOTE]

Hm. I had noticed the promos for the SD/ECW live show here had changed. Originally they had Hardy/Undertaker vs. MVP/Mark Henry. Now the only match they mention is Kane vs. Big Daddy V. Let me tell you, that makes me want to rush out and purchase a ticket...
 
Montel Vontaveous Porter. I hope Matt DOESN'T just come back in a month, and actually takes as much time as he needs to come back instead of rushing. Fortunately, they've got the knee injury angle to cover for him, and the longer he's out, the bigger a heel MVP comes off as, while Matt just looks like a bigger face as more time goes by.

As for ECW, The Vampire~! wrestling in a singlet was hilarious, and made even funnier by Joey noting that his change attire and a new haircut didn't mean he wasn't still ANTI-SOCIAL. I wasn't aware that was ever really part of his gimmick, which seemed to be that he was quite social, just amongst those with vampire obsessions. The food fight was also quite the train wreck, not even Tazz's one-liners could save it.

Unintended comedy aside, this was an off week for ECW, as only the Punk-Dykstra match was good, while the greasers-Jesse/Festus match was fine, and the Kane-BDV/Striker match just refused to end. I fucking loved Dykstra's selling of the GTS, which involved his legs going completely limp and then he just stayed knocked out.

Shelton going to ECW is a fantastic move, and having him work alongside Burke will only help him, as Burke can definitely make up for Shelton's lack of outward charisma. I like the idea of them as a team since they can eventually win the SD tag belts, which would give both men something to do after long, extended periods of stagnation.

As for Carlito, WWE is done "under utilizing" him, as he's done with WWE. The Hornswoggle match was his big swan song, so now he can go main event WWC and TNA shows, and hopefully have good matches on a regular basis for a change.
 
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