The Legacy Wrestling Thread

[quote name='Blackout']That PPV was better than anything WWE has put out for a while. Main event was kind of weak, but everything else was solid. Booker T was hilarious.[/QUOTE]

I highly recommend you check out the latest PPV offering from Ring Of Honor called "Rising Above." That show alone blows away what both companies are doing. The "I Quit" match between Jimmy Jacobs and Austin Aries alone is worth the $10-15 to order.
 
[quote name='Demolition Man']I highly recommend you check out the latest PPV offering from Ring Of Honor called "Rising Above." That show alone blows away what both companies are doing. The "I Quit" match between Jimmy Jacobs and Austin Aries alone is worth the $10-15 to order.[/quote]

I'll have to check that out. I'm just too lazy to follow ROH and buy all the DVDs. I've always wanted to follow it though because every time I watch it it's great.

Has anyone heard the Paul London shoot?
 
back to kayfabe for a minute: is this the longest time (post brand-split) that the Rumble winner has gone without declaring which belt he's going for? In the past I recall them establishing that the week after the Rumble.

From a storyline standpoint, it DOES makes sense to wait until after No Way Out. It hurts the Wrestlemania build though!
 
First of all, that arena has a shitty setup for people them to leave the arena, what was there like 15 feet from where Jericho was parked to the exit? I still haven't seen the actual punch people are talking about, I see him push her when she tries to dive into the car (I'm guessing this is the point where she spit in his face) nor can i hear Jericho saying anything until he starts yelling at the security.

Hopefully this will just get swept under the rug quickly, it's not good for WWE or Jericho.
 
The girl did seem relatively unfazed by the "punch" in that video, so if it turned out to be more of a "push" that got blown out of proportion I wouldn't be surprised.

btw Jericho's voice really carries... it took a while for me to properly identify it, because based on the volume/clarity of if I just assumed it was from the guy holding the camera.
 
I guess i'm distracted by the dude going Mondaaaaaaaaay Niiiiiight Jerrriiiiiichooo and the girl who asked for a picture with him 950 times in 30 seconds.
 
[quote name='diddy310']I guess i'm distracted by the dude going Mondaaaaaaaaay Niiiiiight Jerrriiiiiichooo and the girl who asked for a picture with him 950 times in 30 seconds.[/quote]

hey can i get a picture?



hey can i get a picture?



hey can i get a picture?
 
[quote name='strongpimphand']fuck wrong with flair's face????? it's EXTRA nasty tonight![/quote]

more like extra crispy, someone fell asleep in the tanning bed
 
i had a choice today - drive an hour to the casinos and eat some good buffet food for free (got a lot of credit on my rewards card)

or watch raw for the first time in like a month


....i lost :(
 
and lets talk about this elimination chamber....IT'S FULL OF MID-CARDERS!!! Like Kofi, or Mike Knox, or Kane is going to win!

Shoot, it's either going to be Cena or Jericho....well, Cena....period!
 
The Attitude Adjustment :rofl:

It's like the WWE is trying to make Cena even more bland then he previously was

- edit :rofl: botched ending...awesome
 
Am I the only one who's fine with PG? Sure, "Attitude Adjustment" is cor-NAY, but just because something can't be called the "pole smoker," that doesn't mean the show can't be clever or well written.

I'll take a boring wrestler getting a boring name for a finisher over any amount of bra and panties matches, shit dropping from the ceiling, DX dick jokes from middle-aged men, an oiled up dick johnson dancing and grinding on someone, homophobic innuendo from Cena.

Don't blame the stupid finisher name on something that's only incidentally related to it. The JBL/HBK stuff is quite compelling, what they're doing with Orton and the legacy is pretty good (even if their protagonist foils are the goddamned McMahons). WWE programming is only droll because it's (1) too much bad acting, (2) a dismally predictable format, and (3) meaningless wrestling matches with little time to develop an interest in the matches as a viewer. There are occasional gems, and I'm still thinking about how awesome the CM Punk/Jericho match was from earlier this year (not the 2-minute job they had the other week).

Was "FU" all that much more clever? Really?
 
For me, it's just that this PG era is synonymous with WWE sucking balls and nothing interesting happening besides a handful of things (Jericho, Santino, this HBK storyline...and that's about it for me). It has nothing to do with lame finishing names. It's just WWE keeps getting lamer and lamer. The titles don't mean jack shit and I am sick and tired of fucking Edge. People bitch about HHH but at least that guy has good matches. There really is nothing in sight or any guy on the roster than can turn it around either. But then again, even Austin was the Ringmaster at one point so who knows.
 
i always laughed at the F5 because I thought it was a computer joke

"F5! F5! F55555555555555.........."
 
[quote name='Blackout']For me, it's just that this PG era is synonymous with WWE sucking balls and nothing interesting happening besides a handful of things (Jericho, Santino, this HBK storyline...and that's about it for me). It has nothing to do with lame finishing names. It's just WWE keeps getting lamer and lamer. The titles don't mean jack shit and I am sick and tired of fucking Edge. People bitch about HHH but at least that guy has good matches. There really is nothing in sight or any guy on the roster than can turn it around either. But then again, even Austin was the Ringmaster at one point so who knows.[/QUOTE]

I think what you're describing has been endemic to the WWE since the Alliance storyline, with VERY few momentary lapses in a lack of interest in a coherent program. So, again, I don't see how it's related to the PG-ification of the program.

And I agree with Edge. If people like him, that's fine, but I've never been a huge fan. Lord knows I've tried, but even as far back as his hair-v-hair match with Kurt Angle, which was supposed to be a stellar, top-to-bottom match, I just got a feeling that I didn't give a shit that I was seeing a great wrestling match. Couldn't care less about it.
 
I remember when Edge started using the Spear as a finisher. To this day, it doesn't look to me like he puts any sort of force into it compared to the other guys who do it.
 
[quote name='Mr. Beef']I remember when Edge started using the Spear as a finisher. To this day, it doesn't look to me like he puts any sort of force into it compared to the other guys who do it.[/QUOTE]

Depends. When he had a motorcycle helmet on and speared Cena through a table, it looked like it had impact. :lol:
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I think what you're describing has been endemic to the WWE since the Alliance storyline, with VERY few momentary lapses in a lack of interest in a coherent program. So, again, I don't see how it's related to the PG-ification of the program.

And I agree with Edge. If people like him, that's fine, but I've never been a huge fan. Lord knows I've tried, but even as far back as his hair-v-hair match with Kurt Angle, which was supposed to be a stellar, top-to-bottom match, I just got a feeling that I didn't give a shit that I was seeing a great wrestling match. Couldn't care less about it.[/quote]

This has been going on for me since 2003. Nothing majorly interesting is happening. I have no problem with the PG era if there is good matches and good writing. Only problem is WWE has neither. I mean look at the top guys in this era: Orton, Cena, Edge, Batista, etc. Wow. Compare that to Austin, Rock, etc and it's night and day. The only thing of all 2008 that was interesting in WWE for me was Christ Jericho, who IMO should have been at this postition years ago anyway. The most frustrating thing is that after 6-7 years, they still haven't figured out what to do with the brands. It's just a continuing failure of the Invasion angle.

Edge is boring, boring, boring. I agree with you. I just don't care. His character sucks, his storyline with Vickie is just crap, and his title wins don't mean shit. He's champ for like, what, 2 weeks then he drops the belt?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Am I the only one who's fine with PG? Sure, "Attitude Adjustment" is cor-NAY, but just because something can't be called the "pole smoker," that doesn't mean the show can't be clever or well written.

I'll take a boring wrestler getting a boring name for a finisher over any amount of bra and panties matches, shit dropping from the ceiling, DX dick jokes from middle-aged men, an oiled up dick johnson dancing and grinding on someone, homophobic innuendo from Cena.

Don't blame the stupid finisher name on something that's only incidentally related to it. The JBL/HBK stuff is quite compelling, what they're doing with Orton and the legacy is pretty good (even if their protagonist foils are the goddamned McMahons). WWE programming is only droll because it's (1) too much bad acting, (2) a dismally predictable format, and (3) meaningless wrestling matches with little time to develop an interest in the matches as a viewer. There are occasional gems, and I'm still thinking about how awesome the CM Punk/Jericho match was from earlier this year (not the 2-minute job they had the other week).

Was "FU" all that much more clever? Really?[/QUOTE]

It has nothing to do with cleverness and everything to do with stripping away everything that made Cena, Cena and ultimately showing everything that's wrong with the WWE.

Cena went from a cocky wigger to...what? A guy that salutes and wants the title? There's nothing special about him.

The WWE went from risque/anything can happen with a ton of wild characters to...what? Alot of bland stories with bland characters sprinkled with good matches. For something that is suppose to be bigger than life and exciting, they seem very content to tread the same ground and maintaining status quo as long as little kids keep buying Cena merchanise.
 
Well at least the announcers know what to say when he does the Spear, they've probably called the implant DDT the Edgecution maybe 5 times since he started using it. Hell, THQ still insists its that one that has the X-Factor-ish ending which I can recall him only doing once.

But i agree on the impact of his spear, it's largely on the shoulders of the person selling it how his looks, it usually looks great on say, Jeff Hardy, but Undertaker, not so much.
 
I think Edge needs some refreshing at this point, he's been the same character for a few years, I think they'll eventually have him turn on Vickie when he's done with her, but still remain heel.
 
Eh, Sporadic, the majority of your complaints about Cena have been true since "The Marine" came out, which was *well* before the PG shift. If it's symbolic of anything, it's (to abuse the metaphor) another nail in a coffin that had enough nails to begin with, on account of it having been buried six feet under for longer than most of us recall.

The Punk/Regal match is emblematic of WWE's issues. Those two could rock the fuck out, but they had a 3-minute match that consisted of (1) too many striking moves crammed into the first 60 seconds (yes, I said too many, and I mean it, too), (2) a pretty to look at rest hold that was still a rest hold, and (3) a cocktease's worth of reversals before an anticlimactic finish that came out of nowhere. Their matches are like the rushed, hurried, and clumsy/fumbling sex you had as a teenager: not very good, not very memorable, and over far too quickly.

You *know* Punk and Regal could tear the house down. But you know they won't. But, seeing that, you don't get mad at them, you get kinda sour towards the WWE's clockwork-like consistency of their TV show production, and blame the writers/bookers for not giving you a reason to watch.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Depends. When he had a motorcycle helmet on and speared Cena through a table, it looked like it had impact. :lol:[/quote]
It only looked like it had impact because no one knew it was Edge. ;) I want him to start using that neato DDT he took from Gangrel more often as a finisher. THAT looks like it has some oomph to it.

How was the 1st hour of Raw? Will it be worth flipping to USA during commercials for Heroes?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Am I the only one who's fine with PG? Sure, "Attitude Adjustment" is cor-NAY, but just because something can't be called the "pole smoker," that doesn't mean the show can't be clever or well written.
[/quote]

I actaully enjoy the PG product. I think people forget when they were kids watching WWF that is was very PG and that it appealed to kids. As that userbase grew older you saw the gradual move to the Attitude era. I think that will happen again in a few years.

The PG era is more bland, but the focus is on the wrestling and not a bunch of garbage (Mae Young giving birth to a hand anyone?).

The problem is that the PG severly hurts making a crossover star like the Tock out of Cena. The Rock could have never gotten where he is now if he was in a PG WWE. That just doesn't lend itself to his mic skills.
 
The Punk/Regal match when Punk won the title is probably their best so far, but I still hope they're saving one more for a PPV ,maybe a 2/3 falls with stipulations for each one?
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']The Rock could have never gotten where he is now if he was in a PG WWE. That just doesn't lend itself to his mic skills.[/QUOTE]

Think about some of the best promo guys from the 1970's and 80's WWWF/WWF, NWA/WCW, and other promotions, and tell me you think The Rock wouldn't have gotten where he is without "poontang pie" and "strudel" references.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']

The PG era is more bland, but the focus is on the wrestling and not a bunch of garbage (Mae Young giving birth to a hand anyone?).

The problem is that the PG severly hurts making a crossover star like the Tock out of Cena. The Rock could have never gotten where he is now if he was in a PG WWE. That just doesn't lend itself to his mic skills.[/quote]

Except WWE doesn't have *great* matches anymore. They might be decent or good, but nothing that says "Holy shit! That was a 5 star match!"

I thought Cena was great when he was heel going against Brock back in 03. I don't care for him anymore now. His character is just boring.
 
Undertaker's entrance: 3 times as long as the Regal/Punk match. Seriously. I looked up, and it's 10:53 as I'm typing this and the match just started. Raw came back from commercial for Orton's entrance at 10:46.

Christ on a pogo stick.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Think about some of the best promo guys from the 1970's and 80's WWWF/WWF, NWA/WCW, and other promotions, and tell me you think The Rock wouldn't have gotten where he is without "poontang pie" and "strudel" references.[/quote]


I don't think he would have become Dwayne Johnson, actor in such films as Get Smart (whoa, just channeled a little Troy McClure there). He made his name by being a smartass that ran his mouth and most of what he did wouldn't fly in the current WWE.
 
There was absolutely no fucking reason for Taker to even show up on RAW after that match they just had, because it served no purpose. Orton could have gone up against Dolph Ziggler and the result would have still been the same.
 
Good show overall, although it dragged on at times due to an excess of video packages. The awesome Flair-Jericho intro was about a million times better than anything done to build up their '02 match, and was easily the highlight of the show here. I also liked Cody getting another finisher - hopefully they can get this one over. Cole and Lawler acting like Cena was a huge star for hanging out with Tiger Woods and Derek Jeter at a Gillette function was hilarious.

Cena/Rey/Kofi vs. Kane/Jericho/Knox was solid - I loved the double team dropkick into the corner, and the diving cross body into the Code Breaker was excellent, and looked worlds better than the Code Breaker he hit on Punk a couple of weeks ago. Kane continued to sell really well for Rey and Kofi, and I liked that they did something to further establish the Code Breaker as a match ender - they need to stick with that though, as there have been too many instances of the move being treated as a transitional one. This isn't TNA Impact: the Video Game - make the damned move mean something, WWE. It can be done to anyone, is safe, and can be done anywhere - if you can get a kick to the head over as instant death, this should be a breeze to build up.

HBK vs. Henry worked at setting up a JBL promo against Shawn, so I loved it. JBL is so awesome as a dickhead, but I wish Shawn would do more to emote than his usual "I'M SMOLDERING WITH GENERIC RAGE!" face. Regal vs. Punk was only three minutes long, but was about the most awesome short match ever - even better than Palumbo vs. Luke Hawx from SD a couple years ago. Regal hit a ton of stiff-looking stuff, including forearms, knees, elbow shots, and best of all - a headbutt to counter a sunset flip, and just outright ruled this match. Punk won with the GTS, which I'm fine with, but afterwards, Regal came across as a massive asskicker, and I loved it.

The Orton vs. 'Taker main event was a perfectly fine TV main event - I wasn't expecting a clean finish, although I still think they should've built up 'Taker's appearance on Raw as a bigger deal, and hyped it for more than one week. Still, these two had a good, short match, and I didn't mind the non-finish until 'Taker needed to be saved by... Shane McMahon, who proceeded to take forever to set up his one big regular spot. I also didn't like Priceless being killed by 'Taker right before that. They had another chance to kinda get over this week, and then, once again, they had their legs cut out from under them.

Quotes -
Cole - Since retiring, Ric Flair has been an ambassador for this industry.
Lawler - YES, THERE YOU SEE HIM WITH MICKEY ROURKE OF THE WRESTLER!
Flair - Wooooo! WOOOOOO! GOD DOES IT FEEL GOOD TO BE OUT HERE IN FRONT OF ALL OF YOU AGAIN! I’ve missed you! THE NATURE BOY HAS MISSED YOU ALL! This time a year ago, I was fighting for my career knowing that the next time I lost, I’d have to retire form the greatest sport in the wrold. Well, the time came - WM 24 was the event, my opponent was the great Shawn Michaels, and I couldn’t have lost to a man I have more respect for in a business I have loved a lifetime. I have no regrets, I am honored…
Jericho - ENOUGH! I’m not gonna let you wax nostalgic about your career and waste valuable airtime - that is ENOUGH from you!
Lawler - OH THIS IS DISRESPECTFUL!
Jericho - You came out here to address what I said last week, but first, I want you to think about last year - the night after WM when you said goodbye to this business for good. Watch this right now. I hugged you out of respect, but had I known that you would prostitute yourself to any two-bit promoter and that you’d crave th spotlight more now and the horrid example you’d set for future performers, I wouldn’t have hugged you - I wuld have slapped you right in your face.
Flair - HAD I KNOWN ABOUT YOU BEING A CONDESCENDING LITTLE PUNK, INSECURE WITH YOURSELF! YOU WILL NEVER EVER TELL ME WHAT TO DO! I HAVE NEVER SOLD OUT! NEVER! I WILL NEVER SELL OUT! I WILL NEVER GET BACK IN THAT RING! I WILL NEVERWRESTLE AGAIN! I HAVE TOO MUCH RESPECT FOR MICHAELS AND THE WWE, but I’m losing more respect for you by the second. I respect each and every one of these people out here. I live and die for them every day.
Jericho - You expect me to believe that you care about those hypocrites, right? That’s why you sign up to have your face slapped on a poster so you can sign autographs. You’re problem - you have to be the center of attention.
Flair - YES, AND YOU KNOW WHY!? CUZ I’M THE NATURE BOY! YES, I RETIRED FROM THE RING, BUT I WILL NEVER RETIRE FROM THIS BUSINESS! I Love to shake their hands, put my arm on ‘em, and tell ‘em stories about the legendary Ric Flair and all the legends, and you Chris Jericho will never wake up a day in your life and tell me how to live my life. I’ll live my life the way I want to because I can.
Jericho - Okay, so what you do is none of my business, fine. When you’re an honest man like me, you get a lot of people saying it’s not your business, but you’re wrong - I’m a locker room leader, and I have a whole locker room back there who respects me moe than they respect you, Flair. So you can pat yourself on the back that you haven’t returned to the ring…yet, but you will, and you’ll put your body through hell because you can’t step away. You’ve missed the point of the Wrestler - these people couldn’t care less about you! They could care less about any of the legends - sure, they’ll cheer you now, but once it’s over, post the pictures they’ve taken on Facebook and forget about you forever! And you just don’t realize it, and until you do, you’ll go down the same path as his character, but unlike him, you don’t have a director, so I’m gonna get you to stop! STOP ALLOWING THE PARASITES TO LEACH OFF OF YOU! I’M TELLING YOU NOW TO TELL THEM THAT YOU DON’T NEED THEM ANYMORE! Go ahead, Ric, tell them that you are better than they are! DO IT NOW!
Flair - NO! NO! NO! NO!
Jericho - Okay, have it your way - if you want a clown who will fall on his face for your amusement, get a good shot of the Nature Boy for the last time…until he comes back again. Come on, strut, WOOO! Be a good dog - come on Flair, every picture they take shows how far you’ve fallen, and you don’t have anyone else to blame for this but yourself! You know it’s true… (Flair punches him)
Cole - WHAT GREAT ATHLETICISM BY KELLY! DROPKICK TO THE GUT!
(after Melina gets a two count on Beth)Santino - DAT’S TOO FAST!
Orton - Lost in the controversy between the McMahons and me is the fact that I won the Rumble, which means that I will main event WM against either the WWE or World champion, and while everyone else isn’t thinking about it, I haven’t stopped thinking about it. I WILL BE… CHAMPION! NOBODY! NOTHING CAN STAND IN MY WAY! NOT VINCE, NOT SHANE, AND CERTAINLY NOT STEPHANIE MCMAHON! Now unfortunately, she has been scared to death because she thought I was going to punt her - I was NEVER going to do that. I just wanted to show Shane what COULD have happened if I WANTED it to happen. Besides, why would I want to hurt her? I want her to be around so I can see the look in her eyes when I take out yet another member of her family! And Shane, the Undertaker couldn’t stop me at Royal Rumble, and he’s not gonna stop me tonight, so if the Undertaker can’t beat me, what kind of a chance do you think that you have?!
Lawler - That’s…a good question.
Cole - FOURTEEN THOUSAND SET TO WATCH CODY RHODES AND TED DIBIASE IN TAG TEAM ACTION! (crowd responds with dead silence to the duo)
Cole - Cryme Tyme calls themselves the Quarantine Boys!
Lawler - The Quarantine Boys?
Cole - CUZ THEY’RE SO SICK!
Lawler - Did you know that Cryme Tyme’s promotional picture has a height chart in the background?
(after the Roll of the Dice)Cole - CODY CALLS THAT MOVE CROSS-RHODES!
Cole - Last week, John Cena hung out with guys like Derek Jeter and Tiger Woods!
Lawler - REAL BIG SHOTS!
Cena - We were representing the new Gillette Gamer blade… We all shaved at the same time…had a bunch of good-looking celebrities around!
(while Knox locks on a sleeper)Cole - HE IS SCARY!
Cole - CENA GONG FOR THE ADTTITUDE ADJUSTMENT!
Cole - Remember, the chamber Is Last Man Standing! CENA COULD BE ELIMINATED EVEN BEFORE THE LAST MAN STANDING!
(Kane locks in a sleeper) Cole - YOU ARE WATCHING CABLE TV’S HOTTEST SHOW!
(after a mid-air Code Breaker on Kofi)Cole - WHAT A WAY TO BUILD MOMENTUM FOR THE ELIMINATION CHAMPIONSHIP…CHAMBER MATCH!
JBL - What Mickey Mouse is to Disney, you will be to me! I will put your name and likeness on everything that I own! I didn’t dismiss you…but since every decision you make has your family’s best interest at stake, how about you bring your family… bring your wife! Because I want your wife to witness first-hand what a battered old man her husband has become, and I wanna look at your wife when she comes to the realization that you have gambled and lost the one and only opportunity to keep the vaunted Michaels respect intact! You will be a loser, and I will do what I’ve done my entire life - I will win! And Shawn, speaking of your wife…I think that my office is always gonna be a place for such a beautiful and talented lady.
Cole - Chris Jericho showed LACK OF RESPECT, but now, he must prepare for the ELIMINATION CHAMBER MATCHUP!
COLE - SNAKE EYES! VINTAGE UNDERTAKER!

Screens -
 
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The match-ending code breaker was trash, and I don't think of that move as Jericho's weak finisher. They have, however, made the Walls of Jericho a completely useless move that is no longer to be taken seriously.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Eh, Sporadic, the majority of your complaints about Cena have been true since "The Marine" came out, which was *well* before the PG shift. If it's symbolic of anything, it's (to abuse the metaphor) another nail in a coffin that had enough nails to begin with, on account of it having been buried six feet under for longer than most of us recall.
[/QUOTE]

Very true.

[quote name='mykevermin']Think about some of the best promo guys from the 1970's and 80's WWWF/WWF, NWA/WCW, and other promotions, and tell me you think The Rock wouldn't have gotten where he is without "poontang pie" and "strudel" references.[/QUOTE]

I don't think he would have. Some of Rock's best promos have been Rock acting like he's coked up and moving a million miles a minute.
 
I think Edge is great; his problem right now is that they just aren't writing any compelling feuds for him. It's hard to even remember that he feuded with HHH over the title last year. And it seemed like he was only a bit player in his feud (and TITLE WIN over) Jeff Hardy.

The best he's been in the past twelve months was on the MitB Raw with CM Punk, and that wasn't even a feud!!!
 
Rhodes' new finisher is yet another wrestler using the Roll the Dice; which seems to be the standard move given to a guy that can't get any other finisher over.
 
I like Edge, but they need to start changing the character a bit. Sure, the sneaky 'I get title reigns by sheer luck' thing is fun for a while, but he's been doing it for YEARS. He's getting stuck in that rut where people not only see him as a transistional champ, but expect it. If they really want to freshen up Edge, have him win the belt and keep it by actually beating people. Best case scenario would be to put him up against HHH and do a mind-games angle that puts him on HHH's level (the whole Cerebral Assassin deal), and ultimately have him beat HHH clean. Edge's biggest problem, outside of the staleness, is that he has no credibility. Sadly, I don't see how to give him any back on Smackdown, because the two people he'd need to beat are HHH (unlikely) and Taker (sick of that feud).

I just woke up, so I hope those are coherent thoughts.
 
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