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[quote name='depascal22']I've got to restart Nocturne because I screwed my party up so bad I can't beat the final boss. None of my demons know Pierce. I was stupid and got rid of it early. I thought it was a weaker spell since everyone seemed to get it early in the progression. I'll go back to it after I finish my backlog.[/QUOTE]

You must be thinking of some other ability, no demons can learn Pierce; only the main character can learn it directly and that is only after finishing all of the extra Kalpa dungeons to become a true demon. In order for demons to learn the ability you have to make Metatron which requires that you have already beaten him in the Kalpa dungeons and then you have to make the 3 other arch angels and fuse them in a 3 way demon fusion to create Metatron. With Metatron in your team you go the last level of the Kalpa dungeons and there is a door there that requires that you make Metatron when you open that door you see a shady broker that will sell you a Vile Grimkala (not sure if I spelled that right) that knows Pierce... from there you basically just need to Register that demon so that you can mass produce the Pierce skill and then copy it into your final party.

With all that said Pierce is only required to beat the special boss which you only get to fight if you've completed the True Demon ending which requires you to kill countless other extra bosses and an extra dungeon prior to him. And the main reason you need Pierce is that the special final boss only takes 25% damage from every type in the game, which means you could still beat him, and I've heard of people doing it, without the Pierce skill although hopefully you still have it on your main character since assuming you built your main character correctly he should be doing the most damage of anyone in your party anyways.

I just wanted to get that out there since in my opinion SMT: Nocturne isn't really broken, I mean yes you could screw up and lose Pierce on accident if you forgot to register the demon that you buy with it... but considering I'd say most people would need a guide in order to figure out how to do everything for the True Demon ending I have a feeling that you wouldn't make a mistake on that part since every guide (Official or FAQ) that I went by for the game outlined very clearly how to get Pierce and why it was a good idea if you were going to fight the special final boss... which if your on the last level of the Kalpa dungeons you might as well since at that point you've already completed almost every prerequisite.
 
I'm almost at the end of Lost Odyssey, but I have to grind. I also want every spell in the game, but that means going through the toughest boss in the game to get the final spell I need, which of course requires more grinding :\
 
For some reason, here recently I've been grinding a lot more in RPGs, mainly because I've been leveling up my whole party instead of just a few selected characters.

So, what about the rest of the RPGT? Level up the whole party, or just a few of them??
 
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It kind of depends on the structure of the game, but typically I find the group of characters that I like the best in an RPG and only use them. Sometimes it gets me into trouble when games pull the force party members into your team, but I like just focusing on a core group.
 
[quote name='icebeast']It kind of depends on the structure of the game, but typically I find the group of characters that I like the best in an RPG and only use them. Sometimes it gets me into trouble when games pull the force party members into your team, but I like just focusing on a core group.[/QUOTE]
I'm the same way. The problem is I don't like using characters who's personalities I don't like.
 
I feel like I have to level up every character, even when you shouldn't (Like in FFXII where every character is the same blank slate). For Lost Odyssey though, it seems to push you towards leveling up every character moreso than any JRPG I've played since it rewards you with new skills.
 
My party use depends on distribution of experience system towards your party members. Most of time I use every character so I can experiment their strengths and weakness. I hate games that have an experience system that bench players gain no experience at all such as Star Ocean IV and Final Fantasy 12. If you don't use them enough, they feel like a huge hindrance towards your party. You either have to level them up to get them up to par or you will absolutely avoid them due to their low level. It even worse when these low level characters are forced upon you on certain battles such as Cross Edge(this game does have team experience, but you must grind for higher skill sets) or some low tier characters start to get better as you level them more due to have better skill set in later levels.


I think the worst offender for party experience is Strategy Rpg. Most of them don't have team experience system. You can easily have many of your party members fallen behind. I wish more Srpg have party experience like Jeanne d'Arc, team distribution experience pool like newer Fire Emblem series or Final Fantasy Tactics Advance 1+2 job quests so they won't fall too behind.


I know Star Ocean Second Story and Disgaea series don't have team experience system, but in those games you can easily farm quick experience points.
 
I know I tend to try to level everyone equally, after getting burned in FFIX. I don't remember the details, but there was a point where I was forced to have Eiko, Quina, Dagger, and Steiner all in a party, and the only one that was useful was Steiner. I HATED Eiko and Quina, and rarely use white mages, so Dagger was lagging too. Love it when the devs have equal exp distribution, or at least some trickle down to benched characters, so if they later force you to use a character, ur not burned (Spoony Bard! u useless bastard! Hide dammit. Just get out of my sight!)
 
[quote name='Krymner']For some reason, here recently I've been grinding a lot more in RPGs, mainly because I've been leveling up my whole party instead of just a few selected characters.

So, what about the rest of the RPGT? Level up the whole party, or just a few of them??[/QUOTE]

I compulsively cycle party members in and out to keep them levelled in anticipation of that one sequence where the gang splits up into small groups and you have to use everybody. It's such a habit that I even do it if experience is shared to inactive members.
 
[quote name='icebeast']It kind of depends on the structure of the game, but typically I find the group of characters that I like the best in an RPG and only use them. Sometimes it gets me into trouble when games pull the force party members into your team, but I like just focusing on a core group.[/QUOTE]

This because I feel bad if I don't use my favorite characters.
 
[quote name='Rei no Otaku']I'm the same way. The problem is I don't like using characters who's personalities I don't like.[/QUOTE]
I can usually deal with characters I don't like... Unless it's Wakka from FFX.... I fucking hate him.
 
[quote name='Magus8472']I compulsively cycle party members in and out to keep them levelled in anticipation of that one sequence where the gang splits up into small groups and you have to use everybody. It's such a habit that I even do it if experience is shared to inactive members.[/QUOTE]

I both rofled and raged at that list. :lol: :bomb:

I really wish more games had shared exp, or at least like in Tales of the Abyss, where yeah, they leveled up if you didn't use them, but their skills didn't. So when I was forced to use that whiney little brat with the doll (already forgot her name) or Natalia, they weren't killed in one hit from being benched, but just didn't have many skills.
 
[quote name='Rei no Otaku']It's just another reason I prefer Western RPGs like Dragon Age. Even if I've never used a character, he levels up along with my party.[/QUOTE]
There's some JRPGs that do that, too. Unfortunately, they seem to be the exceptions.

I'm one of those that tries to keep everyone leveled up, though it can be tough sometimes (and next to impossible in games like Pokemon), and I tend to still have favorites.
 
[quote name='blueshinra']There's some JRPGs that do that, too. Unfortunately, they seem to be the exceptions.[/QUOTE]

Very pleasant surprise when I played Chrono Trigger for the first time on DS last year.

I'm currently debating whether to bother using Chie or Naoto at all in Persona 4 or just keep my main group going. Chie is already way lower level than evreyone else and I just got Naoto but I might not even bother using Naoto at all. Decisions, decisions....
 
Chrono Trigger doesn't give full XP to all characters. I think non party members get 3/5 XP or something like that. It's still pretty significant, though. It also made the game that much more enjoyable because I only felt like grinding once, and even that lasted for less than an hour.
 
Naoto is one of the best characters to have in your group since "he" can do both dark and light attacks. Instant kills always make fights easier.
 
True, but those skills tend to be expensive (in terms of SP) and they seem to never work on the harder enemies, which is when you really need the instant kills. And of course all bosses are immune. Maybe I'll give him a shot though.
 
I liked Naoto in my group. "He" also has a non-elemental attack that is real good (can't remember the name...)

When I played both Persona 3 and 4, I only leveled up a few of the characters. I don't think I even used the dog and the little boy at all in P3, and I hardly used Kanji and Teddy in P4.
 
[quote name='Krymner']I liked Naoto in my group. "He" also has a non-elemental attack that is real good (can't remember the name...)

When I played both Persona 3 and 4, I only leveled up a few of the characters. I don't think I even used the dog and the little boy at all in P3, and I hardly used Kanji and Teddy in P4.[/QUOTE]

I was the same way in P3 - I leveled the dog (Koro) and the boy (Ken) some but ended up giving up on them because they kind of sucked for me. When I got Naoto, I looked at his Persona and I immediately thought of Ken from P3 (not physically strong, light and dark instead of elemental magic) so I figured I'd just not waste any time leveling him at all. But, eh, I'll give it a shot.
 
I'm getting sick of Fallout 3 a lot faster than I got sick of Oblivion. Only 40 hours and I'm already bored enough to go back to the main story.
 
Later in P4 many enemies will be vulnerable only to Mudo or Hama spells making Naoto very valuable. He also learns a good physical attack called "Vorpal Blade" and Megido spells which is non-elemental magic. I'm pretty sure he learns Mind Charge which when used with a Megido spell is devastating. Naoto also has no elemental weakness.

But as you mentioned his downside is boss battles. Plus those Megido spells are costly on his MP.

I never stuck to one team. I found the best way is to just cycle through all the characters. It was more fun too.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']um...
Naoto is a girl
[/QUOTE]
If I was trying to not spoil P4, I'd call her a he, too.
 
I don't mind non-active party members not getting experience points. While I don't want complete realism in RPGs, it doesn't make any sense at all for people who aren't fighting to get better at it. I'd be fine with them getting small boosts in intelligence or something, maybe even in skill-type abilities, but physical traits? No.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']I don't mind non-active party members not getting experience points. While I don't want complete realism in RPGs, it doesn't make any sense at all for people who aren't fighting to get better at it. I'd be fine with them getting small boosts in intelligence or something, maybe even in skill-type abilities, but physical traits? No.[/QUOTE]
Yeah. I actually prefer it when non-active members don't gain experience, it makes it feel like my choices matter more. Like, what difference does it make who I pick for my active team if everyone gets the same outcome.
 
Jeebus Christmas did Dragon Age ever piss me off today.

The difficulty is arbitrary. One second I'll cruise through a pack of what seemed like 20 skeletons, the next I'll get stun-locked by some ghost-thing and my whole party will be raped before taking off a quarter of its life. I really wish Bioware hadn't altered the 360/PS3 versions. I don't know quite how to make it worth as a more tactical RPG with the gamepad but that isn't my job, it's EA/Bioware's. I'll still finish it, and I'm about to head back into those ruins but it soured me on the game for at least a while.
 
Yeah, the difficulty can go pretty screwy. I recommend skipping the Revenant fights until you've got a better handle on things.

And packing bows to fight the Arcane Horror in the Dalish ruins.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']I don't mind non-active party members not getting experience points. While I don't want complete realism in RPGs, it doesn't make any sense at all for people who aren't fighting to get better at it. I'd be fine with them getting small boosts in intelligence or something, maybe even in skill-type abilities, but physical traits? No.[/QUOTE]

It also isn't exactly realistic when the laws of the universe for some reason dictate that three and only three good guys may be involved in any one fight at any one time. Especially in situations (FFX) when you know all the characters are there, and yet you will still lose if the three presently fighting die since the others will even then adamantly refuse to enter the fray as if it were the JRPG equivalent of dividing by zero.

Given this, I think the fact that your airship/boat/castle/spaceship/hideout/pocket dimension might simply come equipped with a home gym for your pals to use while you're out is exceedingly plausible.
 
[quote name='Magus8472']It also isn't exactly realistic when the laws of the universe for some reason dictate that three and only three good guys may be involved in any one fight at any one time. Especially in situations (FFX) when you know all the characters are there, and yet you will still lose if the three presently fighting die since the others will even then adamantly refuse to enter the fray as if it were the JRPG equivalent of dividing by zero.

Given this, I think the fact that your airship/boat/castle/spaceship/hideout/pocket dimension might simply come equipped with a home gym for your pals to use while you're out is exceedingly plausible.[/QUOTE]
Breath of Fire 4 handled the party limit rather well. Only three guys are allowed to fight at a time, but they can be subbed out at any time for the guys resting off to the side.

EDIT: Who occasionally take potshots at the enemy or offer free healing to your main group, anyway.
 
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[quote name='The Crotch']Breath of Fire 4 handled the party limit rather well. Only three guys are allowed to fight at a time, but they can be subbed out at any time for the guys resting off to the side.[/QUOTE]

I've been wanting to play that again recently. I'm continually amazed that it's nearly 10 years old, not to mention the last decent entry in the series.
 
[quote name='Magus8472']I've been wanting to play that again recently. I'm continually amazed that it's nearly 10 years old, not to mention the last decent entry in the series.[/QUOTE]
Dragon Quarter > you.
 
Damn, there goes my hopes of a remake/updated port. Oh well, I'll still take the original Vagrant Story, but something extra would have been nice (thinking along the lines of Valkyrie Profile PSP).
 
Don't worry, I'm sure you'll see plenty of remakes for it in the future. This won't hold them back one bit.

I've been processing the ending of Lost Odyssey for a while. I've got to say that game went from 'meh' to 'okay' to 'average' to 'great' over the span of the last 2 discs. The payoff at the end was pretty good. Although it might feel different because I spent so much time on this game. But yeah...I really enjoyed it. The last boss wasn't that hard, either. In fact, only a couple of bosses throughout the final 2 discs were really tricky. Most of them were pretty straightforward.

I'd say Lost Odyssey is a 8.5/10. Also, I don't want a sequel.
 
I don't want a sequel to Lost Odyssey per se, but what I do want is more of the flashback memory sequences! Those were absolutely amazing for the most part, and I would love to see more media outlets attempt that style of storytelling. It'd be great for some short stories, comics, or even novels. But even better than that was the writing. Very, very well done imho. IIRC, there was a book of such stories written by the same author released in Japan. Wonder if there's a scanlation somewhere out there...
 
Radiata Stories could've been a great open world-style RPG, but it's not a bad experiment. It's got its flaws, but it has its hooks into me. Just wish the music didn't get stuck in my head so easily...

[quote name='DQT']It's confirmed for Europe. Is PSN exactly the same for NA and Europe?[/QUOTE]
I don't think they are, and I'm fairly sure the releases are handled separately. Still, that it's headed to Europe probably means that it's all but confirmed for NA.
 
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[quote name='62t']Vagrant Story coming to PSN[/QUOTE]
This makes me happy, I got my copy used a long time ago and my PS2 kind of had a hard time reading it, and when I went to play it again my PS3 wouldn't even load it... I borrowed a friends copy but didn't finish it before I needed to return it.

It totally perplexes me though that lots of people online say that Vagrant Story is a really hard RPG... because my first time through and my replay where I maybe finished 1/3 of the game it didn't feel particularly difficult at all, and that was with no guide or FAQ. I will say that I didn't finish the additional dungeon with the different keys that requires +gaming, that could be harder.

I really love Vagrant Story a lot though, both the plot and gameplay are amazing.
 
I really should play Lost Odyssey... I got it last Christmas and haven't even opened it.

[quote name='Magus8472']It also isn't exactly realistic when the laws of the universe for some reason dictate that three and only three good guys may be involved in any one fight at any one time. Especially in situations (FFX) when you know all the characters are there, and yet you will still lose if the three presently fighting die since the others will even then adamantly refuse to enter the fray as if it were the JRPG equivalent of dividing by zero.

Given this, I think the fact that your airship/boat/castle/spaceship/hideout/pocket dimension might simply come equipped with a home gym for your pals to use while you're out is exceedingly plausible.[/QUOTE]
This. It doesn't make any sense to force me to use all my party members(Especially those I dislike) just incase I might have to use them later. Crap like that is the while reason I never finished FF6(Got to the last Dungeon and said fuck it)and it's one of the only things I hated about FFX(But it wasn't nearly as bad). It just feels like another thing they use the to artificially add length to the game.
 
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[quote name='icebeast']
It totally perplexes me though that lots of people online say that Vagrant Story is a really hard RPG... because my first time through and my replay where I maybe finished 1/3 of the game it didn't feel particularly difficult at all, and that was with no guide or FAQ. I will say that I didn't finish the additional dungeon with the different keys that requires +gaming, that could be harder.

I really love Vagrant Story a lot though, both the plot and gameplay are amazing.[/QUOTE]

I remember having some difficulty with it, but my biggest issue was the equipment/item management. It became very tedious very quickly. Other than that, though, probably one of Square's best games.
 
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