*The Wrestlemania 23 & Wrestlemania III 20th Anniversary Wrestling Topic*

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[quote name='ahmedmalik']Hence he is a hell...



I think he needs to be booked better before his potential starts to really shine through. The man can really, really, really cut a promo and when the time comes, he will be one of the biggest heels in the company. If anyone can take the torch from Triple H, it's gonna' be Punk.

The fact is Lashley needed help from McMahon and Donald Trump to really get over. Punk started in the WWE on their little watched ECW program and he was still over huge on Monday. Don't think it won't go noticed by the WWE.[/QUOTE]
Punk was over on Monday night because it was a hometown crowd, and Chicago fans LOVE CM Punk. There's been several shows where he's gotten no reaction, and on most of the shows where he does get a good pop, it tends to be by comparison. When you're on a show that featured Mike Knox, Bob Holly, and Test, the fans would have popped for fucking Tom Zenk.

The only way CM Punk takes the torch from Triple H is if he marries into the family. Punk's built like X-Pac, and Vince likes 'em Super Sized.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']That was an amazing promo. Almost makes me wonder if he is off the booze.[/QUOTE]
I dunno, I still think Jake wouldn't object to someone "pissing in a beer bottle and telling him to drink it".

Mmmmm...Corona.
 
[quote name='ahmedmalik']Hence he is a hell...


I think he needs to be booked better before his potential starts to really shine through. The man can really, really, really cut a promo and when the time comes, he will be one of the biggest heels in the company. If anyone can take the torch from Triple H, it's gonna' be Punk.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7861111354063673565&q=c.m.+punk+promo&hl=en

The fact is Lashley needed help from McMahon and Donald Trump to really get over. Punk started in the WWE on their little watched ECW program and he was still over huge on Monday. Don't think it won't go noticed by the WWE.[/quote]

Do the words "dream on" mean anything to you?

In the words of JR you're goofier than a pet coon if you really think CM Punk is going to "take the torch" from HHH.

Furthermore, Edge is a heel because people legitimately hate him, not because he's good at generating heel heat or performing heel actions. People don't like him because he's scum and he fucked Matt Hardy's girlfriend. Prior to that incident he was a mid-card babyface. This is what is called "X-pac heat" people boo him because they want him to just go away.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']Do the words "dream on" mean anything to you?

In the words of JR you're goofier than a pet coon if you really think CM Punk is going to "take the torch" from HHH.

Furthermore, Edge is a heel because people legitimately hate him, not because he's good at generating heel heat or performing heel actions. People don't like him because he's scum and he fucked Matt Hardy's girlfriend. Prior to that incident he was a mid-card babyface. This is what is called "X-pac heat" people boo him because they want him to just go away.[/QUOTE]

the reality of it is, you haven't the slightest clue who is going to take the torch from Triple H in the future, its always someone you would never suspect (Austin, The Rock, Etc)

Secondly Edge plays a great heel, he does all the little things perfectly to play it off like hes a cocksucker. I for one think its funny he tagged Lita from under Matt hardy's nose. He maybe had x-pac heat after that incident but at this point i doubt anyone really cares anymore. Just my two cents.
 
[quote name='JaytheGamefan']WWE didn't just "take her off TV" - her body shut down due to her basically killing herself to get skinny. [/quote]

Oh, didn't know that. And apparently she is back, cause she's in a match on SD this week.
 
[quote name='onetrackmind']the reality of it is, you haven't the slightest clue who is going to take the torch from Triple H in the future, its always someone you would never suspect (Austin, The Rock, Etc)[/QUOTE]

The Austin that everyone was pegging as a future world champion during his WCW years and ECW stint?

The Rock that WWE was adamant about pushing down our throats?

There were some twists in the road to get there, but both of those guys were pegged very early on to become headliners.

You and Horse are BOTH right about Edge. He plays a good heel, and he's one of the few guys who can take WWE's D level material and make it B minus. However, he's also a fucking smarmy dickhead and there's absolutely every justification for someone to dislike him as a person rather than a performer, if they choose to do so.
 
CM Punk could be the best heel in the WWE, if booked the right way. If only Punk was around in the Attitude Era (I'm talking the current Punk, not the super skinny, SDW Punk), he could have been in so many feuds revolving around his Straight Edge style. Shoot, he could still do something with that involving Austin, with Stone Cold giving Punk his rub in the long run. The reason some crowds don't go nuts for him is because of the way he's been booked. He was the first guy eliminated in the Elimination Chamber (even earlier than Test, who was shitcanned), and for the most part, his feuds have been against people the fans couldn't give 2 shits about.

The reason why he is the "IWC's darling" is because the IWC has seen him, for the last 4 years, be the most complete wrestler in America. He can do comedy matches, he can cut lighthearted promos, he can be dark, he can be the "Babyface in Peril", he can be an incredible heat generating heel, he can do excellent hardcore matches, he can go 60 minutes, he can really do it all. He's not just the byproduct of the IWC looking for the non-Cena type, he's legitimately great in almost every aspect that makes a wrestler great.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']This is what is called "X-pac heat" people boo him because they want him to just go away.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you quite undertand what "X-pac heat" means. :whistle2:k
 
[quote name='Fanboy']I don't think you quite undertand what "X-pac heat" means. :whistle2:k[/quote]I thought the same thing. Edge was probably the best reason to watch WWE in 2006, I don't think anyone actually wants him to just go away.
 
[quote name='Matt Young']May as well hop on the hoss train with Guyver and start fapping to Goldberg, Masters, and Mark Henry. ;) Okay, so the last line is just because I wanted to get a shot in on Guyver. It's been a while.

.[/quote]

lmao...some people just dont realize what true talent is....
 
[quote name='onetrackmind']the reality of it is, you haven't the slightest clue who is going to take the torch from Triple H in the future, its always someone you would never suspect (Austin, The Rock, Etc)[/quote]

Alright chief, belittle me if it makes you feel better, but only an idiot wouldn't have seen something in Austin. He was moving up the card over on WCW when he was fired. Most people forget there was a WCW before Hogan, before the NWO... Austin had been tag champion with Pillman, had just held the US Title, and had it not been for his injury in Japan who knows what may have happened. Naturally, WWE was going to push this guy to make Bischoff sorry for his mistake, in the same way Bischoff pushed all the WWE talent he acquired. Sure the Ringmaster gimmick was weak, 3:16 was lucky, and no one could've predicted Austin's popularity would rival Hogan's, but you can't tell me his success was totally random.

The Rock, however, was pretty random, I'll give you that, but he did have the "3rd generation superstar" pedigree, that has also worked for Orton to a lesser degree.

Punk has been in WWE since last August now, that'll be 8 months exactly at WM23. What has he accomplished thus far? Pretty much nothing outside generating massive heat backstage. By comparison, within 8 months of joining the WWE, Steve Austin had won the KotR, and The Rock had already won the I/C title.

Continuing to disprove your "you haven't the slightest clue" theory, I sure was stunned when Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar, John Cena & Batista won their respective titles :roll: C'mon, Kurt was pushed instantly as the Olympic star, winning practically every belt in his first 3 months with the company, Brock was pushed almost in the same way as Kurt, Batista was undefeated up until his final match in OVW, and Cena was dominant in OVW as the Prototype, debuting in WWE against Kurt Angle and holding his own in the match. Plus all four of those guys had the right look that Vince goes for. Roided-up, larger than life guys. Kurt being the only possible exception due to his height, but he had better credentials than anyone else due to his Olympic Gold.

Punk has the wrong look, the wrong attitude and the wrong fanbase. IIRC the WWE puts forth about zero effort towards pleasing the IWC. He's already jobbed to the likes of Hardcore Holly, was buried in the Elimination Chamber match, and has he even main evented an ECW on Sci-Fi show yet? In a singles match that is? Punk as the next WWE champion? Give me a break, he'll sooner be mentioned in the same breath as Christian and other guys that perhaps should've been pushed by WWE but weren't and found success in TNA. Ultimately, I would imagine that the IWC would be happier with Punk in TNA anyway, as that is their favored federation.

Secondly Edge plays a great heel, he does all the little things perfectly to play it off like hes a cocksucker. I for one think its funny he tagged Lita from under Matt hardy's nose. He maybe had x-pac heat after that incident but at this point i doubt anyone really cares anymore. Just my two cents.
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Ya, real cool, fuck Lita while Matt was injured, very funny stuff there. Very classy. I've said all I will about Edge, you know your opinion, I know mine, no point in arguing them any further because neither one of us is going to budge on the issue.
 
[quote name='Fanboy']I don't think you quite undertand what "X-pac heat" means. :whistle2:k[/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Pac_heat#X-Pac_heat

[quote name='VanillaGorilla']I thought the same thing. Edge was probably the best reason to watch WWE in 2006, I don't think anyone actually wants him to just go away.[/quote]

The only reason I found was habit :whistle2:? Jeff Hardy's return was good for some people, but you more than offset that with Kurt Angle's departure. Was also nice to see Booker T have a solid title run finally, even if it was years too late. Cena's dominance over Raw along with the DX Raw-infomercials, almost reached a point in which Raw was completely unbearable.

Ya, gonna have to go with habit/addiction and the hope that something interesting/unexpected will finally happen again.
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']CM Punk could be the best heel in the WWE, if booked the right way. If only Punk was around in the Attitude Era (I'm talking the current Punk, not the super skinny, SDW Punk), he could have been in so many feuds revolving around his Straight Edge style. Shoot, he could still do something with that involving Austin, with Stone Cold giving Punk his rub in the long run. The reason some crowds don't go nuts for him is because of the way he's been booked. He was the first guy eliminated in the Elimination Chamber (even earlier than Test, who was shitcanned), and for the most part, his feuds have been against people the fans couldn't give 2 shits about.

The reason why he is the "IWC's darling" is because the IWC has seen him, for the last 4 years, be the most complete wrestler in America. He can do comedy matches, he can cut lighthearted promos, he can be dark, he can be the "Babyface in Peril", he can be an incredible heat generating heel, he can do excellent hardcore matches, he can go 60 minutes, he can really do it all. He's not just the byproduct of the IWC looking for the non-Cena type, he's legitimately great in almost every aspect that makes a wrestler great.[/QUOTE]

While I totally concur with your summary of why people like Punk, part of me really saw this coming. Sure, hindsight is 20/20, and I don't have any proof that I knew he'd be undercut from the get-go...but bear with me.

You have to keep in mind how much more egalitarian indie wrestling is than WWE. Truth be told, it all started with ECW's "Big Ass Extreme Bash," though the ECW mentality had been building for while by that point. Anyway, Sabu wrestled Rick Bogner (Fake Razor Ramon/"Big Titan") in a match. Bogner had some size (good height and weight, anyway), but sucked in the ring like a halfing born from Snitsky, Nathan Jones, and Stephen Hawking. Long story short, the match stunk. The "drizzling shits," if you will.

The crowd chanted "Don't Come Back!" halfway into the match. They didn't stop.

Big Titan never worked for ECW again.

At that point, I argue, many indy groups began to offer an alternative to "sportz entertainment," and became highly regarded. They figured that some fans love those puro, hardcore, and lucha libre styles that you don't see in the US; let's give it to them. Like any boutique or mom-n-pop shop, they get by on offering an alternative to mass-produced nonsense. There's a reason that peole buy a loaf of bread from the bakery instead of getting Wonder Bread from Wal-Mart, or why you would buy a six pack of a microbrew instead of a cheaper High-Life caliber beer.

ROH did that for fans. That's why JJSP recommends the west-coast indies as well.

But, part of the fun is figuring out who is a good wrestler, and who isn't. In the indies, size and look means shit. Samoa Joe would have never hit WWE if there wasn't a TNA to make him big (yes, ROH did it, but that's another argument for another day), but you know they'd love to sign him if they could. Pelle Primeau? I saw 600 kids screaming for him to come back and win, even if he was 89 pounds soaking wet.

You feel good when they get signed to WWE or TNA. At first. Recall that Paul London was on top of ROH when WWE signed him; we thought he'd break through that ceiling in WWE. He may have a title, but I don't know that many people know or care who Londrick are. Hell, Spanky was another internet darling.

I'm just going on and on and on, and all I really wanted to say was that I saw too many damned indie wrestling darlings go up to WWE and TNA and accomplish little to nothing, with the possible exception of Samoa Joe and AJ Styles. I guess that's why I figured Punk would be a nobody in WWE.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']Alright chief, belittle me if it makes you feel better, but only an idiot wouldn't have seen something in Austin. He was moving up the card over on WCW when he was fired. Most people forget there was a WCW before Hogan, before the NWO... Austin had been tag champion with Pillman, had just held the US Title, and had it not been for his injury in Japan who knows what may have happened. Naturally, WWE was going to push this guy to make Bischoff sorry for his mistake, in the same way Bischoff pushed all the WWE talent he acquired. Sure the Ringmaster gimmick was weak, 3:16 was lucky, and no one could've predicted Austin's popularity would rival Hogan's, but you can't tell me his success was totally random.

Punk has been in WWE since last August now, that'll be 8 months exactly at WM23. What has he accomplished thus far? Pretty much nothing outside generating massive heat backstage. By comparison, within 8 months of joining the WWE, Steve Austin had won the KotR, and The Rock had already won the I/C title.[/quote]
I didn't say Austin or Rock. I said Triple H. There is a big difference between the two categories.

And Austin got the rub from Hart, who made him look like a legit contender for the world title. Look at who Austin fueded with before meeting up with Hart. Savio Vega? Marc Mero? It wasn't until the fued with Hart that Austin looked to be the genuine deal and it wasn't until over a year later when he won the belt at Wrestlemania XIV. In fact, Austin didn't win his first championship (tag belts) until he had been with the company for well over a year.

Punk has the wrong look, the wrong attitude and the wrong fanbase. IIRC the WWE puts forth about zero effort towards pleasing the IWC. He's already jobbed to the likes of Hardcore Holly, was buried in the Elimination Chamber match, and has he even main evented an ECW on Sci-Fi show yet? In a singles match that is? Punk as the next WWE champion? Give me a break, he'll sooner be mentioned in the same breath as Christian and other guys that perhaps should've been pushed by WWE but weren't and found success in TNA. Ultimately, I would imagine that the IWC would be happier with Punk in TNA anyway, as that is their favored federation.
Click to expand...

Jim Ross has even said that people in the WWE already know that Punk is good and he is someone who actually works with the talent. Is the Punk the next world champion in WWE? No. But will he a WWE world champ in the next 3 years? You'd be crazy not to believe so. Either way, Ross has more credibility than you on what the company thinks about Punk so I think you should stop while you're still ahead.

Ya, real cool, fuck Lita while Matt was injured, very funny stuff there. Very classy. I've said all I will about Edge, you know your opinion, I know mine, no point in arguing them any further because neither one of us is going to budge on the issue.
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You have a lot of baggage... did you catch your girl cheating on you?

Mykevermin, I think the difference with Punk is that he is over six feet tall and that on some level he seems to be connecting with audiences. London/Kendrick, even after all these months as the tag champions have never TRULY gotten over. Punk has been getting buried alive and he still was the second most over guy on RAW behind Stone Cold. Sure, it was Chicago, but it was the simple fact that he got a reaction.

I mean... look who is in the main even on Smackdown this Thursday...
 
But even if Aragorn were “only” a normal-sized Númenórean at 6′4″, it is likely he looked quite different than the movie portrayal of him. Viggo Mortensen is a fine actor and did a good job as Aragorn, but Viggo is 5′11″ and somewhat slight of build. A better image (only with hair) might be the 6′4″ Bill Goldberg, former football player and dominating wrestler for a brief time.
Araberg.jpg
Billgoldberg17.jpg
The sight of Goldberg might put fear into a foe’s heart, whereas Viggo’s less-than intimidating appearance and countenance might have just the opposite effect, actually giving them hope when seeing his normal or smallish stature. “Araberg” could do battle with an Uruk-Hai whereas Morensen is a bit of a stretch. And Tolkien wanted his myth to be believable.
All that has gone before is simply background for the point I wish to make in this post. The point is not one that is novel or original with me, but it is an important one that bears repeating. Despite the size of the Númenóreans, the power of Gandalf, the immortality and power of the elves, and the gritty determination of the dwarves and others of Middle-earth, it is none of these who actually shape the world of Middle-earth.
 
[quote name='ahmedmalik']Mykevermin, I think the difference with Punk is that he is over six feet tall and that on some level he seems to be connecting with audiences. London/Kendrick, even after all these months as the tag champions have never TRULY gotten over. Punk has been getting buried alive and he still was the second most over guy on RAW behind Stone Cold. Sure, it was Chicago, but it was the simple fact that he got a reaction.

I mean... look who is in the main even on Smackdown this Thursday...[/QUOTE]

Valid points all around. Two things holding him back, IMO:
1) His upper body size. IIRC, the reason Nigel McGuinness didn't get a WWE developmental a few years ago was b/c they wanted him to build his upper body. He has much more upper development than Punk.
2) The difference b/w Punk and everyone else: the push. Punk had video segments building him up, counting down until his debut...and when he debuted, he squashed guys. Justin Credible, CW Anderson, and others. London and Kendrick just kinda showed up working on Velocity one day and that became that. I think you're right about Punk's size relative to the other guys, but it's also the amount of a push he's given as a result of his size, and the severe lack of push that smaller guys get.

What has Jamie Knoble been given since he came back from ROH? What vignettes did Idol Stevens and KC James get (ok, not pushing James, I understand...)? Punk got over because of the way WWE brought him into the fold, and to a much lesser extent, the buzz of him coming into WWE (reminiscent of Tazz' WWF debut at the 2000 Royal Rumble, where te entire MSG was chanting "WE WANT TAZZ!" despite him *NEVER* appearing on WWF/WCW tv, aside from the barely legal angle from three years before that).
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']We have? Well... I didn't really watch SD much at that time, I'm sad I missed out.

Anyhow, your statement simply isn't true! There's plenty of talented wrestlers I like, even a few left on the WWE roster. Undertaker, Benoit, Londrick, HBK, RVD, & Flair come to mind, but I'll stop there because the definition of "talented" will undoubtedly be disputed as I continue.

Edge - I hate because he's a douchebag, pretty simple right? He's somewhat comical, but I'd stilll like to see Matt Hardy break his leg. He's not an asshole like Bubba Dudley, he's more of that jackass that drinks your last beer, asks if you like a girl and then goes out with her anyway, cheats on his tests... did Edge go to college? I bet he was in a fraternity. I doubt I'm alone in my opinions here.

CM Punk - I hate and I cannot tell you why exactly. Something about his gimmick just rubs me the wrong way. Here though, I just don't like the character, has nothing to do with the person. You're supposed to have guys you like/dislike in wrestling. I know I'm alone here, because CM Punk is the internet's darling, of course maybe that's part of the reason I don't care for him.

Finlay - I hate because he's 49 years old and getting a push! Why? He was a jobber in WCW and there was a reason for that. What is the use of pushing a guy that will probably die of old age soon? Plus the guy was a jackass as a road agent and one of the guys, along with Johnny Ace, that pushed for Matt Hardy's release. No one likes Johnny Ace, yet you can thank him for Finlay's push now too because they were in bed together back in WCW. Oh, it's all political!

So, in short the reason I hate Finlay is because despite his age, related short shelf-life, and despite never being a draw in WCW, he's likely to win the MITB because of backstage politics and his ties to Johnny Ace.


Other wrestlers I hate: Goldberg, Jeff Jarrett, Bubba Dudley, Test, Umaga, Kevin Thorn, Mike Knox, Hardcore Holly, New Jack,.. and I think Masters is a total joke, but I don't hate him. I think all of those are self-explanatory, but I will elaborate upon request.[/quote]

Agree: CM Punk. Liked him in ROH (as much as I've seen, I was never really a big ROH fan). Can't stand him now.

Disagree: Test and Mike Knox. I think they are talented.. with Knox you can't really tell yet cuz he's green but Test? I mean... he definitely plays his role well, and when given the chance to speak he usually doesn't disappoint.
 
Since you're all arguing about Punk I guess I'll chime in with my opinion. I think Punk will get somewhere in the WWE.. at least in the long run. He's got charisma, athleticism, and a unique look.... a lot like RVD right? Allow me to run with this comparison. RVD became a star in ECW shortly before and then during the time the Attitude era hit. That means that he stole Vince's money.. just like WCW guys did. So what happens when WCW and ECW fold and Vince picked them up? He treats his home-grown stars like gold and the outsiders like shit, with few exceptions. After a while (after rebranding) these guys finally get chances to shine: Eddy, Benoit, Booker T... AND RVD! Too bad RVD fucked it up by getting caught smoking the buds but I digress. Anyway, I've made the comparison before, but I feel ROH is this generation's ECW. And CM Punk is this generation's RVD. They remind me of each other a lot, they're both billed as utilizing "martial arts" and they both get good crowd reactions when they pull off big spots (although Punk hasn't really done much in WWE yet). Well RVD wasn't that big of a star his first year in the WWE either. I don't know if he won any championships or not but I know that it took him a while to make a name for himself. I think Punk will do the same eventually, it's just a matter of time. I mean... he already tagged with RVD, they had some decent chemistry, as well as D-Generation-X, that worked out well too. If he's not causing too much turmoil backstage, he'll be a star one day, BANK ON IT!
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']I thought the same thing. Edge was probably the best reason to watch WWE in 2006, I don't think anyone actually wants him to just go away.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree with you VG. Edge really has stepped it up the past year and proven he is main event worthy.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']
Edge - I hate because he's a douchebag, pretty simple right? He's somewhat comical, but I'd stilll like to see Matt Hardy break his leg. He's not an asshole like Bubba Dudley, he's more of that jackass that drinks your last beer, asks if you like a girl and then goes out with her anyway, cheats on his tests... did Edge go to college? I bet he was in a fraternity. I doubt I'm alone in my opinions here.

CM Punk - I hate and I cannot tell you why exactly. Something about his gimmick just rubs me the wrong way. Here though, I just don't like the character, has nothing to do with the person. You're supposed to have guys you like/dislike in wrestling. I know I'm alone here, because CM Punk is the internet's darling, of course maybe that's part of the reason I don't care for him. [/quote]
Honestly, I can see where you are coming from.

Strange about Edge, I was thinking the same thing. Not that I'd wish on it, but if he went out with a knee injury or something this year, I wouldn't miss him. WWE has been pushing the hell out of him since he returned from his neck injury and they seriously need to give him a break(give him a feud with Masters or something).

As for CM Punk, I also see what you're mentioning. His gimmick right now is absolutely boring. I don't know if it's this "Straight Edge" crap or what.
 
Off topic, but since you guys know me better than most on the board.... I got this thing and put it on my MySpace page where you can leave me voice comments and hear my voice. It's pretty nifty.

1-641-985-7878 *3785281 is the number to call to leave comments, and my page is www.myspace.com/matt_young (but I must add you as a friend for you to view it).

I've been told I sound like Senshi, LOL.... so prepare for a surprise.
 
I think Punk will definitely be a world champion in WWE, and he'll at least hold the ECW belt at some point in '07 and maybe even SD's world title.

As for Edge cheating on his wife with Lita, honestly, I don't think it's that big a deal. Wrestlers cheat on their wives all the time, it's been going on for many, many, many years - I'm not going to hate the man just because he screwed his friend's girl while he was hurt.

Edge ended up getting a main event push afterwards, while Matt was very briefly over as a main event-level guy and will likely never attain that status ever again. Matt's face promos are horrid, but damn could he cut a fantastic heel promo during the V1 days. Matt as a heel is phenomenal, but I kind of doubt the fans can ever hate him again.

Realistically, what Edge didn't wasn't even all that sleazy by wrestling standards, and it didn't affect my enjoyment of his matches one bit. For an example, Art Barr was convicted of statutary rape against a 14 year old, but that doesn't prevent me from being able to appreciate what a master he was at wrestling. He may not have been the best person in the world, but as a wrestler, he was phenomenal. I don't need to think a guy is a Nobel peace prize nominee in order to enjoy his in-ring work.
 
A lot of people say they hate Edge because he's a bad person. If you know anything about Jake Roberts' personal life, then you know he's not the best kind of person. Yet everyone seems to love him.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Valid points all around. Two things holding him back, IMO:
1) His upper body size. IIRC, the reason Nigel McGuinness didn't get a WWE developmental a few years ago was b/c they wanted him to build his upper body. He has much more upper development than Punk.
2) The difference b/w Punk and everyone else: the push. Punk had video segments building him up, counting down until his debut...and when he debuted, he squashed guys. Justin Credible, CW Anderson, and others. London and Kendrick just kinda showed up working on Velocity one day and that became that. I think you're right about Punk's size relative to the other guys, but it's also the amount of a push he's given as a result of his size, and the severe lack of push that smaller guys get.

What has Jamie Knoble been given since he came back from ROH? What vignettes did Idol Stevens and KC James get (ok, not pushing James, I understand...)? Punk got over because of the way WWE brought him into the fold, and to a much lesser extent, the buzz of him coming into WWE (reminiscent of Tazz' WWF debut at the 2000 Royal Rumble, where te entire MSG was chanting "WE WANT TAZZ!" despite him *NEVER* appearing on WWF/WCW tv, aside from the barely legal angle from three years before that).[/quote]

You're right on all marks. I agree with you completely. Somehow, I think Punk made an impression on the right people while he was in OVW where the other people you mentioned are just too small to be taken credibly in the WWE, at least with the way WWE books its talent.
 
Was Heyman in charge of OVW when Punk came through? That's the most logical assumption to make of who he made the right impression on.
 
The G4 Network will be filming a lucha libre pilot in Tijuana, Mexico on 3/30. The show will be titled "Viva La Lucha" and will be a Lucha Libre show for an English speaking audience. The goal of the network is obviously to attract the 18-49 male demographic.

Some of the bigger names set to be apart of the pilot are Juventud Guerrera, Nicho El Millionaro (former Psicosis), L.A. Park (former La Parka), and Rey Mysterio Sr. The Human Tornado from Wrestling Society X will also be involved. Chavo Guerrero, Sr. and Larry Rivera will be doing the announcing.

The taping will be free and take place at Tecate Foro/Palenque at Parque Morelos. Confirmed matches are below.

*Disco Machine & Joey Ryan & Karl Anderson vs. Human Tornado & Lil' Cholo & Silver Tyger

*Tazmania & Scream & Viernes 13 vs. Pancho Cachando & Animaniac & Shamu Jr.

*Super Astro & Venum Black vs. Angel Mensajaro & Psycho

*Phoenix Star & Zokre & Cobra II (aka Puma) vs. Los Hego Boys

*Los Ice Creams vs. Jigsaw & Lince Dorado

*Minis: La Parkita & Octagoncito vs. Piratita Morgan & Espectrito

*Xtreme Tiger vs. Mortiz (Note from Mike: This has been a pretty heated feud in Tijuana)

*Rey Misterio Sr. & L.A. Park vs. Nicho El Millionario (Psicosis) & Juventud Guerrera

Once the pilot is complete, it will be presented to the G4 Network in hopes of getting picked up.

Credit: PWInsider.com

I hope G4 picks it up
 
[quote name='pitfallharry219']A lot of people say they hate Edge because he's a bad person. If you know anything about Jake Roberts' personal life, then you know he's not the best kind of person. Yet everyone seems to love him.[/QUOTE]

I think the difference is that Edge is just an overall douchebag for no reason while Jake Roberts can fall back onto his childhood/drug problem.
 
[quote name='JaytheGamefan']
As for Edge cheating on his wife with Lita, honestly, I don't think it's that big a deal. Wrestlers cheat on their wives all the time, it's been going on for many, many, many years - I'm not going to hate the man just because he screwed his friend's girl while he was hurt. [/quote]

Well this opinion of yours, coupled with the Art Barr story acts as excellent support for my "internet ruins wrestling" theories. That's not what I'm on about right now though...

I don't know how old you are, where you've been, what types of friends you have, but put yourself into Matt's situation. You've been bestfriends with this guy for 5+ years now, dating this girl very seriously for 5+ years. You get hurt, the last person you expect to screw you over and ruin your relationship is your bestfriend. Wasn't Matt a part of Edge's wedding? I know him and Jeff were both definitely there from the Wrestling Insider dvds. I can just picture it, Edge probably lusted after Lita for years, waited until Matt was out of the picture nursing an injury and then charmed her pants off (literally). That's just sick. I don't think the whole incident would bother me so much if Edge and Matt weren't so close prior to all that shit going down. The fact that they were just shows you how crappy of a person Edge really is. So what would you do if you found out one of your closest friends was fucking your girlfriend? Still not a big deal?
 
[quote name='ahmedmalik']I didn't say Austin or Rock. I said Triple H. There is a big difference between the two categories.[/quote]

No you didn't that's why if you'll go back and R-E-A-D that post you'll see it was in response to OTM.

And Austin got the rub from Hart, who made him look like a legit contender for the world title. Look at who Austin fueded with before meeting up with Hart. Savio Vega? Marc Mero? It wasn't until the fued with Hart that Austin looked to be the genuine deal and it wasn't until over a year later when he won the belt at Wrestlemania XIV. In fact, Austin didn't win his first championship (tag belts) until he had been with the company for well over a year.
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Such a Bret Hart mark. Hart didn't make Austin, he already was rather successful in WCW, holding the tag belts & US Title. Austin had already feuded with Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, Ricky Steamboat & Brian Pillman while in WCW. Then once he was in the WWE he feuded with Undertaker & Jake Roberts before ever facing Bret Hart. The real irony here is Austin didn't even feud with Hart leading into WM14, their feud was long over, Austin was actually dropping the I/C title to The Rock at that time. Meanwhile, you're beloved Bret was getting buried by the politics of the nWo down in Atlanta. Learn your history. Learn how to spell too, it's F-E-U-D, big guy.

Jim Ross has even said that people in the WWE already know that Punk is good and he is someone who actually works with the talent. Is the Punk the next world champion in WWE? No. But will he a WWE world champ in the next 3 years? You'd be crazy not to believe so. Either way, Ross has more credibility than you on what the company thinks about Punk so I think you should stop while you're still ahead.
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Jim Ross has been known to say a lot of things in his blog. He recently said something about not expecting to be inducted into this year's HoF, and how much of an honor it would be when he was inducted. He also puts over just about everyone on the roster, because that's in the best interest of the business. I'm sure if I wanted to I could find a blog saying great things about guys like Masters, Rene Dupree & Eugene.

And I like the part about "stopping while I'm ahead" shows how much of an idiot you are. Or does it...

You have a lot of baggage... did you catch your girl cheating on you?
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Now we truly know how much of an idiot you really are, resorting to irrelevant personal attacks to try to prove your point. Oh you witty, witty boy. :applause:

Fortunately that's simply not the case, once you go "horse"... nothing less will ever please you of course!
 
If I was in Matt's shoes, I'd be pissed, but I'm not going to despise Edge because he made one bad move in his life. I don't know the guy personally, and I don't feel right calling him a bad person due to the Lita incident. I didn't learn that bit on Barr from the web - it came from one of Meltzer's Tributes books.

As for Austin, the Hart feud definitely made him a WWF name - his WCW credentials didn't mean a damn thing when he entered the company, as he was just a jobber towards of the end of his run there. His ECW run revived his career, gave him a chance to shine, and gave birth to the Stone Cold-style of promo that helped get Austin over as a major player in the WWF. The Hart/Hart Foundation feud showed he hang with, and beat, the elite wrestlers in the company.
 
[quote name='JaytheGamefan']If I was in Matt's shoes, I'd be pissed, but I'm not going to despise Edge because he made one bad move in his life. I don't know the guy personally, and I don't feel right calling him a bad person due to the Lita incident. I didn't learn that bit on Barr from the web - it came from one of Meltzer's Tributes books.

As for Austin, the Hart feud definitely made him a WWF name - his WCW credentials didn't mean a damn thing when he entered the company, as he was just a jobber towards of the end of his run there. His ECW run revived his career, gave him a chance to shine, and gave birth to the Stone Cold-style of promo that helped get Austin over as a major player in the WWF. The Hart/Hart Foundation feud showed he hang with, and beat, the elite wrestlers in the company.[/quote]

I still believe Austin 3:16 made him a name in WWE, well before Austin's feud with Bret Hart. In all brutal honesty Stone Cold's feud with Owen was better, then again Owen was better than Bret IMO. Less ego, more athletic. Plus Bret took everything so f'ing personally. I almost wish...

Back to Matt/Edge, I think Edge made more than one bad move. You should watch the Ultimate Insider DVDs, unless you already have, sure it's only Matt's point of view, but why would he lie about some of the things he says in there? Such as Matt talking to Edge about it, telling Edge to cease contact with Lita and then checking the phone bill only to see Edge kept right on calling Lita and leaving her messages telling her he couldn't live without her. Edge apologizing again, promising never to call Lita again, then going right back to it. Sick, just sick.

From my personal experiences I think Edge is a dick anyway, I've gone through that before though...
 
ROH did that for fans. That's why JJSP recommends the west-coast indies as well.
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Interesting to note, but quite a few of those guys on that lucha show for G4 happen to be SoCal indy talent.

I was sorta surprised the news on that lucha show got out so fast. They're filming in TJ, and it's an actual crowd instead of the WSX crowd (which, from what I was told, was about 80-20 paid extras). Mexican fans for lucha? G4's got something. Problem being, Larry Rivera sucks BALLS. He's like a Mexican Don West.

FYI - For those of you near Detroit and without tickets to 'Mania, they're releasing standing room only tickets for $25. Not sure where, but probably tucked in near the stage area since that tends to be the easiest place to put seats. $5 from every SRO ticket sold goes to charity, so yeah - for half the price of the PPV, you can be there and support a good cause.
 
Ugh, reading the TNA spoilers, don't expect a turn around in quality. It's the same old crap, different day. Makes me want to avoid watching them altogether. I'm not the only one that has these feelings, am I?

Oh and those wondering when a certain someone returns
Jeff Jarrett returns to Impact in 2 weeks, the one right before the PPV
.

And they just confirmed that Sabu will be inducting the Sheik into the HOF.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']Such a Bret Hart mark. Hart didn't make Austin, he already was rather successful in WCW, holding the tag belts & US Title. Austin had already feuded with Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, Ricky Steamboat & Brian Pillman while in WCW. Then once he was in the WWE he feuded with Undertaker & Jake Roberts before ever facing Bret Hart. The real irony here is Austin didn't even feud with Hart leading into WM14, their feud was long over, Austin was actually dropping the I/C title to The Rock at that time. Meanwhile, you're beloved Bret was getting buried by the politics of the nWo down in Atlanta. Learn your history. Learn how to spell too, it's F-E-U-D, big guy.[/quote]
I mean if you want to get into semantics, you spelled 'your' wrong above. It's pretty pathetic though that you have to take that route.

Either way, I was comparing the rise of Austin in accordance to Punk. You asked what Punk has done? And in return I asked and presented what Austin had done up to that point in his career. You want to harp on Bret Hart and to tell you the truth, I don't really give a damn what you think about the man. Your opinion is downright worthless to me. You're wrong, I know it and that's all that really matters to me.

Realistically, WCW as a mainstream product was worthless until the NWO hit and as such pre-'Stone Cold' Austin wasn't a draw in the least. I can bring up Punk's success in ROH as he was the World Champ there, but again his success there is about as worthless as Austin's was in WCW in regards to being a mainstream draw, at least at this point of his career.

Jim Ross has been known to say a lot of things in his blog. He recently said something about not expecting to be inducted into this year's HoF, and how much of an honor it would be when he was inducted. He also puts over just about everyone on the roster, because that's in the best interest of the business. I'm sure if I wanted to I could find a blog saying great things about guys like Masters, Rene Dupree & Eugene.
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Go ahead, find it. Again, I could less. I trust him more than I trust you.

Now we truly know how much of an idiot you really are, resorting to irrelevant personal attacks to try to prove your point. Oh you witty, witty boy.
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I am not an idiot. I just asked a question... unless you feel that a girlfriend cheating on you is in someway a slight against your own character? That just shows low self-esteem on your part, especially if you're directing that bitterness towards Edge.

I've gone through that before though...
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[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1j9HQ_uUtc[/media]
 
[quote name='kmartbum001']Wrestling is real...for you noobs at least.[/QUOTE]

Who do you think we are....

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvTNyKIGXiI[/media]

... because we are certainly NOT him.






Noob.
 
I didn't find his post to be any more inflammatory than some of the other things said the past couple of pages (less so, actually), but oh well.
 
[quote name='Genocidal']I didn't find his post to be any more inflammatory than some of the other things said the past couple of pages (less so, actually), but oh well.[/quote]
I don't delete comments. I meant every single word I said.

Considering Legend was on the basis of implying that he wished Bret had died instead of Owen in his post, I feel that hardly anything I said crossed the line. He acts like a crybaby because Edge reminds him of his cheating girlfriend, but saying hateful shit like that towards Bret Hart should be totally cool? fuck that. Cry me a river.

[quote name='Zenithian Legend']I still believe Austin 3:16 made him a name in WWE, well before Austin's feud with Bret Hart. In all brutal honesty Stone Cold's feud with Owen was better, then again Owen was better than Bret IMO. Less ego, more athletic. Plus Bret took everything so f'ing personally. I almost wish... [/quote]
 
Again the irrelevant personal attacks, you seem to have quite a bit of built up hostility, why not spare us your crap and go squeeze out a few rounds to some Bret Hart pics. C'mon, I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time ;)
 
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