Triple H's Wrestling Topic

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[quote name='Sporadic']Jeez, Jeff must be made out of the same stuff Japanese wrestlers are made out of.

That should've broken his neck.[/quote]

Seriously, that was one of the nastiest falls I've seen on Raw in a long time. Hell that was one of the nastiest Jeff Hardy falls I've seen, and I was at WMXXIII!

Jeff vs Kennedy could be epic. I like how Jeff decided to just run back in the ring, kinda makes you wonder why more people don't do that when the count is getting high.
 
[quote name='Punk_Raven']Triple H rules. If you don't think Triple H is a great heel then you are a probably a mark and hate him legitimately.[/QUOTE]

We're *all* marks at some level, foolio. If you deny being a mark, then you're the worst sort.

Triple H is a great wrestler, but not a great heel. His feuds grew stale after his 2000 feud with Foley, which was the last time he showed fear or weakness (two critical elements of a good heel). While some of his feuds since then had great matches, or involved fresh matchups, as a *heel*, he was not very good.

Look at it this way: people often complained that Nash and Hall were terrible heels, because they always pandered to the crowd, looking for approval, and sculpting promos to get cheered rather than booed. In short, they were not good heels because they were "cool heels." Fans don't boo someone they want to be just like; that is precisely the reason that Stone Cold took off in 1996.

A variant of the "cool heel" is the "dominant heel." Someone who shows no weaknesses, no fear, and rarely gets put in their place, and always wins the feud. Triple H is that kind of heel. His matches were good, but often uninteresting, for the very reason that the outcome was known. You can ignore his connections to the McMahon family entirely, and his influence backstage, and still come to this conclusion. A good heel, like Ric Flair, knows when to "show ass." When to look weak, to always look beatable, and to win enough to cause the crowd to hate your guts. Triple H won all the time, never showed weakness, and never "showed ass." When did Triple H *EVER* look like a fool on WWE programming after his first WWF title win? When did he *EVER* show fear?

He wasn't a great heel at all; he wasn't even a heel. He took the "Hulkamania" persona and tried to force it into a heel character, and the crowd hated it. Fans don't want to see a heel win, but in order to keep their interest, the heel should win (perhaps more often than lose, I'll admit).

BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT!

But, fans want to see a heel who *should* lose, who *could* lose, and, by all means in most matches, *did* lose (via phony three counts with the ref knocked out, Dusty finishes, and whatnot). Triple H was never that heel. Seeing Triple H come out, one would think "well, here's another Triple H title win." I never expected him to lose, so I had no incentive to see him in a feud.

Now, compare him with his idol, Ric Flair. Ric Flair made *hundreds* of people look like legitimate World Champions in their careers. He made Ricky Goddamn Morton look like he could be world champ. He took Rugged Ronnie Garvin to the edge. He made Steamboat have the best matches people have seen this side of Savage/Steamboat from Wrestlemania III. Ric Flair is seen a credible in-ring worker, and damn near every feud he was in, he got his comeuppance to a degree, or was made to look like a fool (outside of his ultra-floppy selling style, which I think, helps him, even if it is comical).

Triple H has a great look, neat-o merchandise for you tasteless types, and using Motorhead as an entrance theme screams "cool heel" (remember when they changed Demolition's entrance music to that screechy noise so fans would stop cheering for them?). He has great wrestling matches on most days (too many people wrongly place all the blame on Scott Steiner for their shit-fest at RR 2003). But to say he's a great heel? I think you're sorely mistaken. If you think Triple H is an awesome heel, I bet you'll LOVE Jeff Jarrett's title reigns in TNA. :lol:
 
[quote name='Brak']I marked out when Jeff made that run-in.

On the inside.[/quote]

Me too, hopefully they start making Jeff look more legit.
 
I know we are all marks, but most of the things that smarks hate about him are actually part of his character. That's in reference to the politics and the fact that he always wins, etc.

You made some good points. Very good ones. Never thought of it that way. I thought he is a good heel in referance to the fact that he can easily be hated, but hes not good at putting people over. He has ( batista and benjamen ) but benjamen went on to go pretty much no where in the singles feild as far as I'm conserned. Plys he had so many changes of putting guys over during 02/03 and I blame him for the death any potentioal Kane had in the world title field. Even if Kane somehow wins it, I'll always think of the times where WWE has asbused his character and treated him like a joke, but that's a different story.

Also, you pretty much had the same complaints on some heel that I have. I love and hate " cool" heels. Like Edge, , edge can draw some heat, but he's too cool. He had the hot girlfriend, he's an asshole, he's got a hot body, does whatever he wants, etc, so the part of me that's like the fans that you mentioned earlier wants to be like him. I don't think he panders to the crowd exactly, it's just that his gimmick is too cool to get most fans to hate him.

I'm trying to think of times where Triple H showed weakness, and he never has. Ever. Nothing. Whenever something went down he always had a sledgehammer somewhere ( to his credit, he did a good job of building up that weapon ) to fix it all, but he was never shown to really have any weakness. Nothing anybody did could really get to him. Nothing anybody did could get to him.

Also, his feud wiith foley somewhat set the tide for h over the next few years. In my opinon, he buried Foley, hard. Maybe they did such a good job..but as a kid watching that it was so crushing to see Foley lose everything. And to be fair, Jeff Jarret has talent. You put him in a Triple H position and this is what you get. He's always been known to have some sort of political " stroke" and he has somewhat full power in TNA. So...
 
[quote name='mykevermin']We're *all* marks at some level, foolio. If you deny being a mark, then you're the worst sort.

Triple H is a great wrestler, but not a great heel. His feuds grew stale after his 2000 feud with Foley, which was the last time he showed fear or weakness (two critical elements of a good heel). While some of his feuds since then had great matches, or involved fresh matchups, as a *heel*, he was not very good.

Look at it this way: people often complained that Nash and Hall were terrible heels, because they always pandered to the crowd, looking for approval, and sculpting promos to get cheered rather than booed. In short, they were not good heels because they were "cool heels." Fans don't boo someone they want to be just like; that is precisely the reason that Stone Cold took off in 1996.

A variant of the "cool heel" is the "dominant heel." Someone who shows no weaknesses, no fear, and rarely gets put in their place, and always wins the feud. Triple H is that kind of heel. His matches were good, but often uninteresting, for the very reason that the outcome was known. You can ignore his connections to the McMahon family entirely, and his influence backstage, and still come to this conclusion. A good heel, like Ric Flair, knows when to "show ass." When to look weak, to always look beatable, and to win enough to cause the crowd to hate your guts. Triple H won all the time, never showed weakness, and never "showed ass." When did Triple H *EVER* look like a fool on WWE programming after his first WWF title win? When did he *EVER* show fear?

He wasn't a great heel at all; he wasn't even a heel. He took the "Hulkamania" persona and tried to force it into a heel character, and the crowd hated it. Fans don't want to see a heel win, but in order to keep their interest, the heel should win (perhaps more often than lose, I'll admit).

BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT!

But, fans want to see a heel who *should* lose, who *could* lose, and, by all means in most matches, *did* lose (via phony three counts with the ref knocked out, Dusty finishes, and whatnot). Triple H was never that heel. Seeing Triple H come out, one would think "well, here's another Triple H title win." I never expected him to lose, so I had no incentive to see him in a feud.

Now, compare him with his idol, Ric Flair. Ric Flair made *hundreds* of people look like legitimate World Champions in their careers. He made Ricky Goddamn Morton look like he could be world champ. He took Rugged Ronnie Garvin to the edge. He made Steamboat have the best matches people have seen this side of Savage/Steamboat from Wrestlemania III. Ric Flair is seen a credible in-ring worker, and damn near every feud he was in, he got his comeuppance to a degree, or was made to look like a fool (outside of his ultra-floppy selling style, which I think, helps him, even if it is comical).

Triple H has a great look, neat-o merchandise for you tasteless types, and using Motorhead as an entrance theme screams "cool heel" (remember when they changed Demolition's entrance music to that screechy noise so fans would stop cheering for them?). He has great wrestling matches on most days (too many people wrongly place all the blame on Scott Steiner for their shit-fest at RR 2003). But to say he's a great heel? I think you're sorely mistaken. If you think Triple H is an awesome heel, I bet you'll LOVE Jeff Jarrett's title reigns in TNA. :lol:[/quote]

I remember when Jericho, Benoit, Orton, and Maven (who doesn't amount for all that much) all together couldn't put away Triple H in the same match.

[quote name='Punk_Raven']You made some good points. Very good ones. Never thought of it that way. I thought he is a good heel in referance to the fact that he can easily be hated, but hes not good at putting people over. He has ( batista and benjamen ) but benjamen went on to go pretty much no where in the singles feild as far as I'm conserned. Plys he had so many changes of putting guys over during 02/03 and I blame him for the death any potentioal Kane had in the world title field. Even if Kane somehow wins it, I'll always think of the times where WWE has asbused his character and treated him like a joke, but that's a different story.[/quote]

His early fueds with Rock and Foley were great, but when he became uber-champ, he pretty much got X-Pac heat. It was pretty much 'you name him, I beat him', out comes someone, 'Well you ain't beat me', Triple H leaves the ring, four weeks later wins at the PPV. Next fued repeat except this time introduce Golderberg/Steiner/whoever else.
 
When will we say Hollywood Hogan against Triple H?

Better yet, Hollywood Hogan against Kurt Angle in TNA. But that's another story.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']We're *all* marks at some level, foolio. If you deny being a mark, then you're the worst sort.

Triple H is a great wrestler, but not a great heel. His feuds grew stale after his 2000 feud with Foley, which was the last time he showed fear or weakness (two critical elements of a good heel). While some of his feuds since then had great matches, or involved fresh matchups, as a *heel*, he was not very good.

Look at it this way: people often complained that Nash and Hall were terrible heels, because they always pandered to the crowd, looking for approval, and sculpting promos to get cheered rather than booed. In short, they were not good heels because they were "cool heels." Fans don't boo someone they want to be just like; that is precisely the reason that Stone Cold took off in 1996.

A variant of the "cool heel" is the "dominant heel." Someone who shows no weaknesses, no fear, and rarely gets put in their place, and always wins the feud. Triple H is that kind of heel. His matches were good, but often uninteresting, for the very reason that the outcome was known. You can ignore his connections to the McMahon family entirely, and his influence backstage, and still come to this conclusion. A good heel, like Ric Flair, knows when to "show ass." When to look weak, to always look beatable, and to win enough to cause the crowd to hate your guts. Triple H won all the time, never showed weakness, and never "showed ass." When did Triple H *EVER* look like a fool on WWE programming after his first WWF title win? When did he *EVER* show fear?

He wasn't a great heel at all; he wasn't even a heel. He took the "Hulkamania" persona and tried to force it into a heel character, and the crowd hated it. Fans don't want to see a heel win, but in order to keep their interest, the heel should win (perhaps more often than lose, I'll admit).

BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT!

But, fans want to see a heel who *should* lose, who *could* lose, and, by all means in most matches, *did* lose (via phony three counts with the ref knocked out, Dusty finishes, and whatnot). Triple H was never that heel. Seeing Triple H come out, one would think "well, here's another Triple H title win." I never expected him to lose, so I had no incentive to see him in a feud.

Now, compare him with his idol, Ric Flair. Ric Flair made *hundreds* of people look like legitimate World Champions in their careers. He made Ricky Goddamn Morton look like he could be world champ. He took Rugged Ronnie Garvin to the edge. He made Steamboat have the best matches people have seen this side of Savage/Steamboat from Wrestlemania III. Ric Flair is seen a credible in-ring worker, and damn near every feud he was in, he got his comeuppance to a degree, or was made to look like a fool (outside of his ultra-floppy selling style, which I think, helps him, even if it is comical).

Triple H has a great look, neat-o merchandise for you tasteless types, and using Motorhead as an entrance theme screams "cool heel" (remember when they changed Demolition's entrance music to that screechy noise so fans would stop cheering for them?). He has great wrestling matches on most days (too many people wrongly place all the blame on Scott Steiner for their shit-fest at RR 2003). But to say he's a great heel? I think you're sorely mistaken. If you think Triple H is an awesome heel, I bet you'll LOVE Jeff Jarrett's title reigns in TNA. :lol:[/QUOTE]

Alot of words.

I'm not going to counter all of it but I'll touch on one of your points right now.

Comparing HHH to Jeff Jarrett is retarded. Straight up, it's a bad comparison. Jarrett should have never ever gotten higher than the midcard. You could say that HHH having connections impacted his career but even if he didn't marry Steph, he was still on his way to the top and still would have been a multiple time world champ. If Jeff wasn't Jerry's son, he would have never made it higher than midcard in WCW and would have never gotten the TNA heavyweight title let alone the ridiculous run he got with it.

Also Jericho proved that a straight cowardly heel won't fly as a champion for more than a few months.
 
I know I have said this before, but I would take JJ as champ any day of the week over HHH. To me HHH has absolutely no charisma, where as JJ can be highly entertaining. Over the past year and a half Jarrett has been much more entertaining IMO, whether it is as the butt of jokes or doing some dastardly heel action. Him whipping the fan was more memorable than anything HHH did with DX.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Also Jericho proved that a straight cowardly heel won't fly as a champion for more than a few months.[/QUOTE]

I never said straight cowardly, but that's comparing two extremes. The best heels lie in the middle, where they are capable athletes, but don't fearlessly plow through every opponent and every feud.

It's why I think Tito Ortiz is the greatest heel going today. He can back up most of what he says, he is a capable fighter, has money, has a porn star on his arm (not pragmatic in the sack, sure, but that's taking the argument too far). But he loses from time to time, and that doesn't sway his ego in the slightest. He has every right to be cocky, like a good heel, but he takes it to a degree where fans think "he's more cocky than he should be, I can't wait to see him get put in his place."

And he does, occasionally.

I think Jarrett is unfairly dumped on; to claim that he would have never reached the top of the card without connections is folly. What top-carder doesn't have the office behind them in one way or another? Jeff Jarrett's problem isn't that he was the champion, but that he was, again, the dominant heel champion for far too long a period that killed his believability and credibility. It wasn't that he held the WCW title or the TNA title that made people scream "office champ!" It was winning PPV after goddamned PPV that did it.

He deserved those "Triple J" chants. But claiming "midcard for life" shows, IMO, a severe overestimation of what you know about how the wrestling business really works.

Punk_Raven, IIRC, it was HBK that made Shelton Benjamin look like a million bucks, not Triple H (b/c I kicked myself for missing that event as it happened a mile from my house, during a period of "the last live WWE show I saw sucked, so I'm not paying this time"). Triple H made TAKA Michinoku and Tajiri look great in matches where he eventually won, but pointing that out it akin to saying that Hulk Hogan "gave the rub" to Billy Kidman by having him pin him. :lol:
 
That was a rather inciteful, spot-on post Myke. Although, I must disagree with the part about Flair *making* Steamboat have good matches. Steamboat was one of the greatest wrestlers ever, the two Rics working together was like peanut butter & jelly. Not that, that was really a major point in your statement though.

As for the H's, I think that was what he always wanted. He saw his buddies Hall & Nash get more over than any wrestler not named Hogan, as the "cool heels" and wanted the same thing for himself. That didn't work though, because in order to play the "cool heel" you have to be, put quite simply, "cool." And Triple H, well "that's not cool." He was no where near as smooth as Hall or Nash, but he was hellbent on making his character work. He also benefited (like so many others) from timing, as Rock & Austin took their hiatuses, Foley was burning out, Taker was taking time off, and Kurt wasn't ready to be champion yet. So, enter Triple H. Was that the downswing of wrestling, IMO, yes. Triple H didn't kill wrestling though, he just wasn't the right guy to keep the fierce momentum going from the Monday Night Wars. Had WCW had an answer for Triple H outside of Rick Steiner feuding with a doll, then maybe things would've gotten better. I don't like to think in the what-ifs though, especially in wrestling.

So now when Triple H comes back, he's sure to be crazy over, and the fact that he wants to work against Booker means he'll be a face, the question is will he keep it that way? Can Cena even turn heel and look like a coward or weak after he's squashed the entire roster? Or will WWE go through the tired old, HHH heel turn route and have him face Cena yet again at WM24. I sure as hell hope not.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Also Jericho proved that a straight cowardly heel won't fly as a champion for more than a few months.[/quote]

That's just not true. A lot of things went wrong there. Namely, the feud was built as Stephanie vs HHH, not Jericho vs HHH. Despite the fact that Jericho was the Undisputed Champion, his *manager* was the focal point of the storyline. The ridiculous, HHH/SMH divorce angle was executed so half-assed and months after it should have been done. That angle should've been played out with Kurt and HHH, but WWE foolishly opted not to go that route.

As for Jericho, I'd love to see him come back and work as the top heel (not that that would be possible as he'd get cheered like crazy right now) and be given a legit chance to win matches and carry the title as the cowardly heel. Jericho was one of the best coward heels in WCW history. Remember: Jericho 2 - Greenberg 0, Ralphus, The Man of 1,004 holds, stealing Mysterio's mask & cast, among all the other hilarious stuff Jericho did as a heel in WCW.
 
I remember two things about Jericho's title feud with Triple H.

1) Jericho was shoveling dogshit for Stephanie at one point
2) Triple H squashed him like he was Balls Mahoney
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I remember two things about Jericho's title feud with Triple H.

1) Jericho was shoveling dogshit for Stephanie at one point
2) Triple H squashed him like he was Balls Mahoney[/quote]

Ya, looking back, while WWE is going back and "cleaning" parts of their history, they may as well do us all a favor and erase that. They can replace it with Jericho's title win over HHH to open Raw years and years ago. Had WWE only ran with that...
 
and Benoit's death prevents a guaranteed wrestlecrap entry:

As we saw on RAW last night, it appeared RAW setup Umaga vs Jeff Hardy for SummerSlam, and that match will indeed go down. The planned Jackass vs. Umaga match has been cancelled. Sometime during the last week the deal fell apart. WWE had planned on some of the Jackass guys being at the Great American Bash PPV and do some of their stunts on Umaga all night and end up costing Umaga the title in the Hardy match which would have setup Umaga vs. Jackass at Summerslam.

Johnny Noxville had planned to do a few TV appearances for WWE leading up to the SummerSlam PPV but after the Benoit family tragedy happened, Jackass and Knoxville started distancing themselves from WWE. It started out with a few promised TV and PPV appearances, then it came down to Jackass only working the SummerSlam PPV then it ended with the whole idea being scrapped.

Once Knoxville pulled out, WWE decided to scrap the idea altogether. Originally WWE had planned on the Jackass crew defeating Umaga in the match.
Click to expand...
 
Who would have been left if Knoxville pulled out? Bam Margera and some others already said no, so WWE would have been left with Steve-O and Weeman.

Weeman and Hornswoggle in a cruiserweight barnburner???? MAKE IT HAPPEN!
 
I was just about to post that.

I figured something was up since they were no longer showing the Jackass logo during SummerSlam promos. But damn... having Umaga drop the belt so soon after winning it and then jobbing him to the fucking Jackass guys would have been beyond horrible.
 
[quote name='Punk_Raven']When will we say Hollywood Hogan against Triple H?

Better yet, Hollywood Hogan against Kurt Angle in TNA. But that's another story.[/QUOTE]
I just never want to see Hogan again.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']We're *all* marks at some level, foolio. If you deny being a mark, then you're the worst sort.

Triple H is a great wrestler, but not a great heel. His feuds grew stale after his 2000 feud with Foley, which was the last time he showed fear or weakness (two critical elements of a good heel). While some of his feuds since then had great matches, or involved fresh matchups, as a *heel*, he was not very good.

Look at it this way: people often complained that Nash and Hall were terrible heels, because they always pandered to the crowd, looking for approval, and sculpting promos to get cheered rather than booed. In short, they were not good heels because they were "cool heels." Fans don't boo someone they want to be just like; that is precisely the reason that Stone Cold took off in 1996.

A variant of the "cool heel" is the "dominant heel." Someone who shows no weaknesses, no fear, and rarely gets put in their place, and always wins the feud. Triple H is that kind of heel. His matches were good, but often uninteresting, for the very reason that the outcome was known. You can ignore his connections to the McMahon family entirely, and his influence backstage, and still come to this conclusion. A good heel, like Ric Flair, knows when to "show ass." When to look weak, to always look beatable, and to win enough to cause the crowd to hate your guts. Triple H won all the time, never showed weakness, and never "showed ass." When did Triple H *EVER* look like a fool on WWE programming after his first WWF title win? When did he *EVER* show fear?

He wasn't a great heel at all; he wasn't even a heel. He took the "Hulkamania" persona and tried to force it into a heel character, and the crowd hated it. Fans don't want to see a heel win, but in order to keep their interest, the heel should win (perhaps more often than lose, I'll admit).

BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT!

But, fans want to see a heel who *should* lose, who *could* lose, and, by all means in most matches, *did* lose (via phony three counts with the ref knocked out, Dusty finishes, and whatnot). Triple H was never that heel. Seeing Triple H come out, one would think "well, here's another Triple H title win." I never expected him to lose, so I had no incentive to see him in a feud.

Now, compare him with his idol, Ric Flair. Ric Flair made *hundreds* of people look like legitimate World Champions in their careers. He made Ricky Goddamn Morton look like he could be world champ. He took Rugged Ronnie Garvin to the edge. He made Steamboat have the best matches people have seen this side of Savage/Steamboat from Wrestlemania III. Ric Flair is seen a credible in-ring worker, and damn near every feud he was in, he got his comeuppance to a degree, or was made to look like a fool (outside of his ultra-floppy selling style, which I think, helps him, even if it is comical).

Triple H has a great look, neat-o merchandise for you tasteless types, and using Motorhead as an entrance theme screams "cool heel" (remember when they changed Demolition's entrance music to that screechy noise so fans would stop cheering for them?). He has great wrestling matches on most days (too many people wrongly place all the blame on Scott Steiner for their shit-fest at RR 2003). But to say he's a great heel? I think you're sorely mistaken. If you think Triple H is an awesome heel, I bet you'll LOVE Jeff Jarrett's title reigns in TNA. :lol:[/quote]

One of the best posts I have ever read on here:applause: and I actually had no prob with Jarretts title reigns.
 
[quote name='Halo05']That and put on some of the best tag team matches I've ever seen.[/quote]

Yea that was definitely a low-blow. I'm starting to accept them as singles guys.. but at the same time starting to miss AMW. :cry:
 
[quote name='Brak']I just never want to see Hogan again.[/quote]

I'm not very happy about Joe, after going over everyone, being undefeated ( loosely) , being a somoan submission machine, getting burried by Angle with little to know build up just a little while after Angle got brought in. Joe had no business in that feud. Yes, they are great wrestlers, yes, he's a top guy in TNA, but he's no where near the level of Kurt Angle. He was put in a feud he's destined to lose. Plus, I've analyzed the " winner take all " match and realized something pretty obvious. One of the titles up for grabs is a title from a promotion that Joe's never been in and will never be in. There's no way he'll win it. That'd just be bad booking on TNA's part.

So, my theory is that TNA is all about names. They'll snag up anyone who they can. That's what they've always been about. They can turn anyone into Mr. TNA if they wanted to, even if it makes forgetting about the people that actually stood by the company from day one and were supposedly what TNA was all about ( AJ Styles ). And even if it's people who aren't even that big of names (Christian "Cage"). He was Mr. TNA for a while before Angle came in.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I never said straight cowardly, but that's comparing two extremes. The best heels lie in the middle, where they are capable athletes, but don't fearlessly plow through every opponent and every feud.

It's why I think Tito Ortiz is the greatest heel going today. He can back up most of what he says, he is a capable fighter, has money, has a porn star on his arm (not pragmatic in the sack, sure, but that's taking the argument too far). But he loses from time to time, and that doesn't sway his ego in the slightest. He has every right to be cocky, like a good heel, but he takes it to a degree where fans think "he's more cocky than he should be, I can't wait to see him get put in his place."

And he does, occasionally.

I think Jarrett is unfairly dumped on; to claim that he would have never reached the top of the card without connections is folly. What top-carder doesn't have the office behind them in one way or another? Jeff Jarrett's problem isn't that he was the champion, but that he was, again, the dominant heel champion for far too long a period that killed his believability and credibility. It wasn't that he held the WCW title or the TNA title that made people scream "office champ!" It was winning PPV after goddamned PPV that did it.

He deserved those "Triple J" chants. But claiming "midcard for life" shows, IMO, a severe overestimation of what you know about how the wrestling business really works.

Punk_Raven, IIRC, it was HBK that made Shelton Benjamin look like a million bucks, not Triple H (b/c I kicked myself for missing that event as it happened a mile from my house, during a period of "the last live WWE show I saw sucked, so I'm not paying this time"). Triple H made TAKA Michinoku and Tajiri look great in matches where he eventually won, but pointing that out it akin to saying that Hulk Hogan "gave the rub" to Billy Kidman by having him pin him. :lol:[/quote]
I'd say... a couple years ago.. the "Triple J" chants were dead on accurate. He was basically on a lengthy title run that he didn't deserve. Does he deserve to EVER be champion? I don't see why not. I like the guy... especially since his return. Since then, he's been low-mid card and has done a pretty good job at it. His work with EY boosted EY's credability.. although only temporarily.

My beef is: now that Jeff's wife is gone... is he going to just dive back into wrestling hardcore? If that means another long run as TNA champ, I'd probably have to quit watching TNA... not cuz I hate the guy, but just cuz of the fact that Jeff would no longer have a buffer. He'd be just like Angle after his wife died. :cry:
 
[quote name='Matt Young']Punk_Raven- The IWGP belt will not be on the line.

PhrostByte- Angle's wife did not die.[/quote]

Yea but they got divorced right?
 
[quote name='PhrostByte']Yea but they got divorced right?[/quote]

They got back together after Angle left the WWE.
 
WINNER TAKES ALL AT HARD JUSTICE – KURT ANGLE VS. SAMOA JOE – ALL TITLES ON THE LINE
On Thursday’s “iMPACT!”, Samoa Joe issued a huge challenge to Kurt Angle to face him at Hard Justice in a match where the winner will take all championships! Angle accepted, but the two bitter rivals quickly began to brawl as the broadcast ended. As a result, Samoa Joe will face Kurt Angle at the Pay-Per-View with the winner getting the TNA World Heavyweight Championship, the TNA X Division Championship, the TNA World Tag Team Title and Japan’s IWGP Championship. Without a doubt, this is perhaps the biggest bout in TNA Wrestling history as the winner will hold four championship titles!

Link

I knew the picture they had up was accurate.
 
I'm still amazed that TNA is actually calling it the IWGP title, even though it isn't, and they've referred to it as the IGF World Title on-air, which would actually be accurate. Putting that title on the line just kills all the drama due to Inoki certainly not signing off on Angle losing "his" title.

Here's Big Daddy V's theme - http://www.sendspace.com/file/ztup5j
 
Hey knowing Angle can't drop the IWGP/IGF(?) Title takes a lot of drama from the match. I mean Angle and Joe can still have a 5 star match, but it will be missing something because we know the outcome. Not to mention it's starting to get old that Joe is always coming up short when the title is on the line. There is also the fact that when Angle wins he won't want the Tag or X titles. This is also a cheap way to give Angle a "Triple Crown". A feat that only AJ Styles has so far in TNA (3 times no less).
 
205310_hardybotch.gif


fucking OUCH.
 
[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u689u-39Ukw[/MEDIA]

Sometimes TNA is so ridiculous it's just awesome... I might actually get that thing... hm.
 
[quote name='OnyxPrimal']Hey knowing Angle can't drop the IWGP/IGF(?) Title takes a lot of drama from the match. I mean Angle and Joe can still have a 5 star match, but it will be missing something because we know the outcome. Not to mention it's starting to get old that Joe is always coming up short when the title is on the line. There is also the fact that when Angle wins he won't want the Tag or X titles. This is also a cheap way to give Angle a "Triple Crown". A feat that only AJ Styles has so far in TNA (3 times no less).[/quote]

You're right about the triple crown... but, this will make whoever wins the first ever tri-TNA champion (and possibly dual-TNA champion as well, has anyone held two belts at once?).
 
Kennedy should have caught him when he saw him wobbling up there. Catching him and throwing him down looking better than walking over there and letting your oponent attempt and offensive move, especialy when it's one that he botched and almost died doing.

To be fair, it was obvious there that he didn't know what to do.

At about 7:49 in that TNA clip i want to throw up.
 
I forgot to show you guys this gem I got when I was in orlando a few weeks ago!

"Mr Kennedy figure with a slight typo"
2robby.jpg


I was like wtf man......did my money just go to Chris Master's steroid fund?! LOL
 
WWE Ratings Hit the Mat
Ratings for Worldwide Wrestling's WWE Raw on USA Networks, which had been expected to soar during an elaborate plotline that saw WWE Chairman Vince McMahon supposedly killed in a limousine explosion, have gone in the opposite direction. Daily Variety observed today (Tuesday) that overall ratings for the Monday-night two-hour show have dropped 10 percent while ratings among males 18-49 dropped 19 percent. Worse yet, ratings among males 18-34 dropped 28 percent. The plunge was attributed to the real-life murder-suicide of wrestler Chris Benoit and his wife and son. Subsequently McMahon appeared at a tribute to Benoit, and the "Vince Is Dead" publicity campaign was put on hold (or perhaps canceled altogether).
Click to expand...
Please stop pushing Cena.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Looks like Angle will win over Joe again. TNA can't book the IWGP title to change without Inoki's say-so.[/QUOTE]
Noooo.. The Great Khali wins and makes history by saying fuck you to wrestling in one fed.

JK. We all know Cena takes it.
 
[quote name='Zen Davis']Please stop pushing Cena.[/QUOTE]

The ratings drop goes far beyond Cena's push. Quite a few people I'm reading (and noticing) have lost interest in watching wrestling right now after the whole Benoit situation. Honestly I can understand why as well. For them its hard to watch wrestling the same way after a man murdered his wife and child. A man mind you who many considered to have been an future WWE Hall Of Famer and legend of the business.

But Cena's push does not really inspire me to watch RAW on a weekly basis either. I'll give you THAT much credit.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Looks like Angle will win over Joe again. TNA can't book the IWGP title to change without Inoki's say-so.[/QUOTE]

Did TNA ever really announce that the IWGP title is on the line in that match? If so then its too bad that Samoa Joe can't work for ROH. Gabe could put the belt on Joe and have him defend it in that match. In either case it would be free publicity for ROH by having their title on TNA TV.

Then again we ALL know what would happen anyways if that situation did play out. I can hear the ROH fans shitting all over it already. :lol:
 
[quote name='Demolition Man']Honestly I can understand why as well. For them its hard to watch wrestling the same way after a man murdered his wife and child.[/quote]

Can you? Explain it to me, because I don't understand. I don't see less people signing up at Virginia Tech after what happened. I don't see people less hyped for the Falcons or football in general after the Vick incident or the OJ one. One person's psychotic rampage shouldn't effect the entire fanbase. Do you see college courses any different? Do you watch football a different way?

I don't think it has anything to do with the Benoit tragedy. If anything, it seems like the attention would attract more viewers. I think it's just because the product sucks right now. Cena, Khali, Lashley, Umaga, Snitsky (the five huge stars that they continue to push but no one gives a shit about), Santino Marella, Cade/Murdoch, Carlito.. it's the same thing every week. The exact. same. thing. Hardy and Kennedy have been breathing new life into the scene, but it may be too little too late.

ECW was/has been good, but now it's also becoming more of the same.. Johnny Nitro (Morrison), CM Punk, Elijah Burke, Dreamer, Kevin Thorn. Mix it up. I wouldn't mind if ECW borrowed Kennedy, Hardy, Cryme Tyme, Paul London, Shelton Benjamin, Super Crazy, and Sandman, just to mix it up.

It's just time to trim the fat off the roster. There's a TON of people that can't draw whatsoever, most being on Smackdown. It's just a crappy time to be a fan right now.
 
Matt Hardy vs. Mr. Kennedy was the best WWE televised match I've seen in a while -- give these guys a push.

[quote name='Punk_Raven']Kennedy should have caught him when he saw him wobbling up there. Catching him and throwing him down looking better than walking over there and letting your oponent attempt and offensive move, especialy when it's one that he botched and almost died doing.

To be fair, it was obvious there that he didn't know what to do.

At about 7:49 in that TNA clip i want to throw up.[/QUOTE]
That's easy to say as a viewer, especially with the power of rewinding the botch and reviewing it as many times as we wish.

If you were Kennedy, in that situation, you'd be as perplexed as him.

Besides, and I thought this as a viewer - and so did JR, according to his commentary, in the moment - I thought he was going to convert his screw-up into a Split-Legged Moonsault.
 
Yeah. He didn't know what was going on. I wonder if wrestlers who haven't worked together ever get a chance to reherse in the ring....

I would've been perplexed, also.

Not that kennedy didn't know hardy's moveset, just saying that maybe if there was some time to reherse there would be less botches? Suposedly kennedy just got up after the leg from in between the legs thing.
 
Scorch you bring a very good point your post. I've talked to a few people who I know are wrestling fans who right now are backing off from watching for the time being since the whole Benoit murder situation has left a sour taste in their mouth.

My wrestling watching pattern hasn't changed much. I watch bits of the WWE from time to time but obviously my main viewing is TNA and ROH.
 
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