Which CAGs are Christians?

[quote name='BustaUppa']Ha ha, that's a good one. I remember in elementary school (private school) hearing about the evils of Black Sabbath (yes, they were really in touch with 90's youth). This put some FEAR into me and thus I avoided Black Sabbath, and most other "secular" music in general to be on the safe side.

Years later, when my faith became a bit more mature and intelligent - more about a relationship with God, and less about what others told me - I began to explore music more freely. I was checking out Black Sabbath and I was like "wait a minute... that's IT?!?!" I was honestly baffled. A lot of the songs have a rather Christian message to them. A song like "Nativity In Black" is all about how deceptive the devil can be; basically a warning not to follow the path of evil.

I could go into a whole rant about music but I think I'll stop there! I'll just say that lots of Christians have fostered a rather silly attitude about music, and leave it at that for now.[/QUOTE]

For real...people don't look at the real messages..if one is with Christ then one can find Christ in everything...honestly..it's impossible to create such genius without the grace of god..maybe the artist doesn't know it..but talent like that doesn't come out of no where...if evolution was real...there'd be 100000 chimps playing prog rock right now.

Okay, so that was silly, but I know the music thing is horribly messed up. Christian artists..they're more commercial and more sold out than "secular" artists, and they just beat around the bush about so many things. They want to write a love song and instead of just being honest about their feelings, like "Hey, I really love my boyfriend, and want to write a song about him", they capitalize all the hims, add words in like almighty, eternal, savior, hallelujah, and sprinkle in the name Jesus a few times...then they come out on stage..blushing bright read, sing in the sultriest sexed up voice posisble, but have to totally LIE to their audience..Because it comes to a point, I sincerely think CCM fans care more about the lyrics being fanatical than they care about the actual music or any sort of idea of personal or artistic integrity.

On top of that, for most artists the production values are HORRIBLE...these artists wouldn't be around if not for religious fervor.

I will add though...I appreciate Christians who perform "secular" music and are ministering and preaching without people even knowing it! Real Christian artists go to the world and plant the seeds, hoping that they'll grow one day, not stay inside a little bubble and preach to the choir.
 
[quote name='sarausagi']
I will add though...I appreciate Christians who perform "secular" music and are ministering and preaching without people even knowing it! Real Christian artists go to the world and plant the seeds, hoping that they'll grow one day, not stay inside a little bubble and preach to the choir.[/QUOTE]

This is correct.
 
Way to generalize, sara. Not all christian artists are lousy.

I happen to really dig "The Crucified," who were (are?) a Christian band in the 80's Hardcore vein. They only come to mind b/c of a discussion I had the other day where I was explaining how I like Skrewdriver's music (perhaps the most well-known white power band of the 80's) - like Skrewdriver, I appreciate The Crucified's music, while I don't appreciate the message at all. (That said, I'd actually be willing to pay for a Crucified album, while I'd never put a penny into the pockets of Skrewdriver and the like)
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Way to generalize, sara. Not all christian artists are lousy.

I happen to really dig "The Crucified," who were (are?) a Christian band in the 80's Hardcore vein. They only come to mind b/c of a discussion I had the other day where I was explaining how I like Skrewdriver's music (perhaps the most well-known white power band of the 80's) - like Skrewdriver, I appreciate The Crucified's music, while I don't appreciate the message at all. (That said, I'd actually be willing to pay for a Crucified album, while I'd never put a penny into the pockets of Skrewdriver and the like)[/quote]

Ya... but I thought the purpose of a message board was to learn how to over-generalize a point, concept, idea or group of people in order to prove your viewpoint. Oh wait... #-o
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Way to generalize, sara. Not all christian artists are lousy.

I happen to really dig "The Crucified," who were (are?) a Christian band in the 80's Hardcore vein. They only come to mind b/c of a discussion I had the other day where I was explaining how I like Skrewdriver's music (perhaps the most well-known white power band of the 80's) - like Skrewdriver, I appreciate The Crucified's music, while I don't appreciate the message at all. (That said, I'd actually be willing to pay for a Crucified album, while I'd never put a penny into the pockets of Skrewdriver and the like)[/QUOTE]

Well, it's hard not to generalize.

Of course, realize I am speaking strictly of the top 40 CCM. I'm not talking about obscure bands, indie bands, classic bands, or anything. I'm speaking strictly about Essential Records, Sparrow Records, Word, and Dove corporation artists.
 
[quote name='Strell']Pretty sure daroga knows my stance on such things, which generally is enmeshed in staunch dogma against a lot of doubt and questioning, particularly on hypothetical situations I can propose that don't leave me feeling good afterward.

I imagine one day I'll have an ultimate side, but for the time being there's a lot of white noise and screaming goin' on.[/quote]

Assuming I understand you correctly, I think this is exactly where I am.

I've lived in a Christian household my entire life. I was raised to be a Christian, and I never really questioned my faith. I never really lived my faith, but still, I considered myself a Christian.

When I was sixteen, my sister brought to me the concept that perhaps what I'd been taught isn't true. Since then, I have had basically no idea what I believe. I've drifted into atheism, and came back to Christianity, but at this point, I'm pretty lost.

It really feels as if I have two different sides pulling at me, trying to destroy each other.

Funny that this thread was made today though, as a guy tried to witness to me between classes today. When I mentioned I went to Lincoln Christian School (which, unless you're an idiot, is obviously a Christian school), he sort of realized he didn't need to witness. I suppose I could have told him I was flirting with atheism, but I really wanted that conversation to end.
 
[quote name='sarausagi']Of course, realize I am speaking strictly of the top 40 CCM. I'm not talking about obscure bands, indie bands, classic bands, or anything. I'm speaking strictly about Essential Records, Sparrow Records, Word, and Dove corporation artists.[/QUOTE]

Holy cow, you know your religious record labels. To be fair, Top 40 anything is pretty much detestable. To stay on topic, that's the last I'll say 'bout that.
 
I'm a non-denominational Christian, currently a member of a Brethren in Christ church. I've bounced around a lot -- Baptist, Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, etc., but finally found a great church home two years ago. Unfortunately I haven't been able to attend regularly for the past few months because of a long illness. It's been difficult, and very eye-opening. I've definitely learned a lot about the depth of my faith this year. It's really the only thing that's kept me going.
 
I'm a Roman Catholic. I was born into it, went through 3 year old preschool through 8th grade at a Catholic school and still go to the on-campus Newman Center every weekend for Mass, unless I'm at home, where I still go to the same church. I don't really see myself as ever being anything else.

Anytime I've had a question about faith or religion, God just sends me an answer, even if I see it in the most insignificant form. I hold my faith very close to my being and have been known to take issue with others over it, but only if they're continually provoking me. I look at myself as someone who is not an active "recruiter" and trying to add more members by talking to every person I meet about religion. I rather try and keep myself as informed as possible (I've read most of the Catholic Catechism, books on church figures, dissenting opinions on Catholicism, etc) and rather present myself as someone a person can ask if they are curious about something, but don't want the whole "You really should convert today" schtick. I'm willing to engage anyone on the topic, but only if they make the first advance. Actively forcing a person to listen to a matter such as this only seems to turn them off of it, as far as I can tell.
 
Have any of you watched the show on Sundance about Jay Baker (son of Jim and Tammy Faye Baker)? I like the ideas that Jay has and would love to attend his church.

I was born being taught christianity and to this day my dad brings up that my wife and I need to go to church. We recently had our daughter baptised, which was wonderful. But my dad does not understand that him forcing guilt upon me to go to church would be a positive experience for me. I have been questioning a lot about christianity for some time now and it does tear at me from all the fear that has been placed in my mind from the bible.

I just try to be a good person and treat others with respect no matter their lifestyle or beliefs. Isn't that what Jesus would do?
 
I've been a casual Atheist most of my adult life (as in, not really caring), but in light of recent events, my outlook on life and what's beyond us has changed a lot.. I'm still not really sure what I am.
 
[quote name='jbuck138']I'm a christian, but currently do not go to church. I still have my beliefs but do not like most organized groups of religion. I grew up in the Episcopal church.[/QUOTE]

Wow, pretty much the exact answer I came in here to post - except Catholic instead of Episcopal. But yeah, I listen to what they say, but I decide what I believe and what I don't - the church and I don't always agree.

I know I should go more, but I have a problem with being preached to by a church that worries more about receiving the host properly than with the real problems within their own ranks.


[quote name='jbuck138']I just try to be a good person and treat others with respect no matter their lifestyle or beliefs. Isn't that what Jesus would do?[/QUOTE]

Exactly. And that's what it *should* be all about. I have a hard time believing he would care if I gave up meat on fridays during Lent or not.
 
[quote name='megashock5']Exactly. And that's what it *should* be all about. I have a hard time believing he would care if I gave up meat on fridays during Lent or not.[/quote]Interesting to note that Jesus never teaches giving up meat on Fridays, but he never taught tolleration either. Quite the opposite in fact. Jesus always had harsh, harsh words to say to those who were teaching contrary to the Old Testament.

Christianity isn't about being a good person or tollerating other people. Christianity is about forgiveness. The removal of all sin by Jesus' death, and his victory proclimation in his resurrection. FROM that flows a life of good works in thanksgiving to a God who loves us enough to die for us, but to say that such works are the point of Christianity (or far more dangerously, the ticket to heaven) would violate the whole the God's Word.

Good works are the evidence that someone has been forgiven and trusts that. They are not the reason that someone is forgiven.

I kinda feel like I'm derailing my own thread here, so I'll swing it back around. For those of you raised Christian and now are questioning it or reconsdiering it, what are your principle questions, confusions, or disagreements with Christianity?
 
When I was little, it was non-denominational Christian. From about 6th grade through college, we were Wesleyan. Now I would call myself Lutheran (ELCA..of course :D).

I'm a pretty regular church goer. My father-in-law is an ELCA pastor, so that helped me get back into going to church regularly after I got married.

TBW
 
[quote name='daroga']
I kinda feel like I'm derailing my own thread here, so I'll swing it back around. For those of you raised Christian and now are questioning it or reconsdiering it, what are your principle questions, confusions, or disagreements with Christianity?[/quote]I wouldn't say I'm questioning Christianity, but Catholicism and I have had our issues lately. Primarily dealing with our priest during the pre-cana process while my fiancee and I are cohabitating, and similar situations that my co-worker has been dealing with regarding her choice of godparents for her baby. But luckily in our Engaged Encounter a couple weeks ago, we were interacting with a priest from the Community of St. Joseph who basically restored in me some hope that there are some priests who actually have some concept of a changing world, so Catholicism might actually avoid dying.
 
Cruise

tom-cruise-italy.jpg


Jesus Cruise

"Revered as a Demi-God by half-wits since 1988"
 
[quote name='red flare graf']I've been a casual Atheist most of my adult life (as in, not really caring), but in light of recent events, my outlook on life and what's beyond us has changed a lot.. I'm still not really sure what I am.[/quote]

May I suggest researching religions. Not just monotheistic but polytheistic as well. Don't just go with Christianity "just because". You have to find the path that is right for you.

As I said before, I prefer to learn from everything, thus i can never devote myself to one set path...of course, I'm more paganistic than anything
 
I'm a Christian.

I'm a member of an independent Baptist church.

Those two statements are very separate in my mind; in other words, religion =/=
faith.

I found Mikevermin's comments about nondenomination wishy-washyness versus dogmatic tyranny very interesting.
 
[quote name='daroga']Good works are the evidence that someone has been forgiven and trusts that. They are not the reason that someone is forgiven.

I kinda feel like I'm derailing my own thread here, so I'll swing it back around. For those of you raised Christian and now are questioning it or reconsdiering it, what are your principle questions, confusions, or disagreements with Christianity?[/QUOTE]

You bring up good points. I guess I would consider myself Christian because I believe in Christ, and that he was the Son of God, and he's who I pray to.

But going back to your comments about tolerance not being part of his teachings - I guess this is one of those places where I decide for myself and don't align completely with my particular religion. Basically, I'll listen to readings, but if I feel something is right or wrong then that's what I think, regardless of what's written or taught.

I'm a *huge* believer in tolerance, and I believe that religion is a personal thing. So I don't subscribe to the idea of trying to convince or convert anyone to changes their beliefs to mine, or the Church's, and I realize that would make me a bad Christian in the eyes of some. But I don't care. Was it Abraham Lincoln (and later Christopher Reeve) so said their religion was: "when I do good, I feel good. when I do bad, I feel bad"? Take half of that and the other half Christianity - that's about where I sit.

Another big problem I have is the concept of homosexuality being a sin. I've known, and been friends with, too many gay people over the years to believe that. I don't care what the Church says. IMO, you are who you are and the idea of someone being told that they're damned for being true to themselves sickens me.

And the Catholic Church can't talk about pre-marital sex IMO, not with the history they've had with priests molesting children. That's so far beyond any sin that most people could ever commit.
 
About the 'not eating meat' and other seemingly useless rules that Jesus never talked about.

It's more about the discipline than anything.
I've heard Catholicism described as the 'the most free' religion there is.
An old Catholic monk told me about that. A person who gave up their life to live in near solitude.

Pretty crazy right?

It's not freedom in the sense that you can do anything you want, it's the freedom to know that you can do anything you want, but you choose to follow the rules in order to better live a more righteous life.

That's the most basic way to convey what he said, but he was much more eloquent about it.

Like I mentioned before, there's a lot more than just the Bible to learn from.
 
[quote name='dallow']About the 'not eating meat' and other seemingly useless rules that Jesus never talked about.

It's more about the discipline than anything.
[/QUOTE]


Well, yeah, I think most people realize that. I used it to make a point about the Catholic Church focusing on the small stuff while they have huge issues they should be addressing. They're creating distractions, IMO. Same thing as if I said I don't expect Jesus to care if I received the host with the wrong hand. It was just an example.

But while we're on the meat subject. Isn't it strange that beef and chicken are considered meat under this rule, but fish is okay to eat? I've heard people suggest that the church and the fishermen made this one up together. Seems plausible.
 
[quote name='megashock5']Well, yeah, I think most people realize that. I used it to make a point about the Catholic Church focusing on the small stuff while they have huge issues they should be addressing. They're creating distractions, IMO.

But while we're on the meat subject. Isn't it strange that beef and chicken are considered meat under this rule, but fish is okay to eat? I've heard people suggest that the church and the fishermen made this one up together. Seems plausible.[/quote]

I believe it's because fish was the food of the poor.

Also, a lot of people even now, consider fish, different from meat in the usual sense. Yeah, it's meat, it's an animal, but still different.

In my case, I haven't eaten meat in over a month, except for fish/seafood.
Not for religious reasons or anything, just personal choice.

EDIT:
I was right, traditional meat was a luxury item then.
Fish was always there, along with vegetables.

Funny, now it's the other way around.
 
[quote name='dallow']I was right, traditional meat was a luxury item then.
Fish was always there, along with vegetables.

Funny, now it's the other way around.[/QUOTE]

That is interesting. So it's not as much of a sacrifice these days. Plus, I actually like fish.

I gave up video games for Lent this year. Much harder than meat, and not just on fridays.
 
i used to be. i went thru these phases over the course of ~4 years (and counting)

0. truly believing
1. questioning
2. doubting
3. rebelling
4. regressing
5. depression/disillusionment (most of time was here :cry:)

now i'm on #6 which is general apathy.

i have to say that religion as a whole is a funny thing. it can make some blow themselves up in hope of 72 virgins and also let others allow themselves to be tortured and killed for their faith.

it also can be just a social construct designed for weekly meetings with people with similar values and ideas to have "fellowship" :roll:

either way it's pretty messed up and possibly the biggest scam ever. :hot:
 
weez,

I can definitely see where you're coming from. IMO, it's something everyone needs to decide for themselves. All of the scenarios you mention are possible. It's possible that none of it's real, and I question it occasionally, but after questioning I decide that I do believe (at least some of it).

I don't know. If I were God or Jesus, or whoever, I think I'd prefer someone to question things and if they still believe in the face of all that, great - it's better than someone following blindly because someone told them too.

If you have decided not to believe, that's cool. At least you made the decision for yourself.

I've separated God from (organized) religion in my mind. It's the only way I can deal with it.
 
I'm a strong believer in God, but as alot of people have stated, I don't like the way the whole "Christian" thing is ran.

Everyone is stuck on traditions and poinless things, instead of actually dwelling on the thought of God Himself. If you study into it, the word "church" actually means a group of people, and nothing to do with a guy saying the same thing just in different ways each sunday morning at 11AM.

I have a feeling there will be a revolution of some sort soon, nobody really focuses on loving people anymore, and hopefully there will be a change.
 
[quote name='sarausagi']Well, it's hard not to generalize.

Of course, realize I am speaking strictly of the top 40 CCM. I'm not talking about obscure bands, indie bands, classic bands, or anything. I'm speaking strictly about Essential Records, Sparrow Records, Word, and Dove corporation artists.[/quote]

I listen to mostly Tooth and Nail recording artists and some Gotee. I'm currently digging Red, Pillar and Emery.
 
[quote name='daroga']

I kinda feel like I'm derailing my own thread here, so I'll swing it back around. For those of you raised Christian and now are questioning it or reconsdiering it, what are your principle questions, confusions, or disagreements with Christianity?[/quote]

I kinda wonder about the whole "free will" thing and God's omnipotence. If God knows what is going to happen to you in the end, that means you have a destiny. What happens to free will? Makes me say sometimes, why bother. But then faith comes in, and that's what I choose to live by. My philosphy teacher loved debating with me in class.
 
[quote name='vasco']I kinda wonder about the whole "free will" thing and God's omnipotence. If God knows what is going to happen to you in the end, that means you have a destiny. What happens to free will? Makes me say sometimes, why bother. But then faith comes in, and that's what I choose to live by. My philosphy teacher loved debating with me in class.[/quote]Just remember, there's a difference bewteen foreknowledge and predestination. Just because God knows what you're going to do, doesn't mean that he's forcing your hand in anything. He knew you'd wear that shirt today, but he didn't make some holy edict from his throne to declare that you must wear that shirt today. You chose of your own free will.

Thus that also alleviates God's responsibilty in our sins. God doesn't force or coerce us to sin. Just because he knows we'll do it doesn't mean he's happy about it (quite the opposite in fact).
 
[quote name='vasco']I kinda wonder about the whole "free will" thing and God's omnipotence. If God knows what is going to happen to you in the end, that means you have a destiny. What happens to free will? Makes me say sometimes, why bother. But then faith comes in, and that's what I choose to live by. My philosphy teacher loved debating with me in class.[/quote]

Milton does an interesting take on this in Paradise Lost. Basically he looks at it like God knows everything, but he allows man to make their own mistakes.
 
An interesting idea was proposed to me in a college Bible class. The teacher asked us to consider that maybe God doesn't even KNOW everything that we are going to do. Rather, his true power lies in his ability to reign over and regulate an UNPREDICTABLE universe. Prophecy still works in this framework of thinking; just think of it as something that God has decided to do, rather than something that has been ordained or even foreknown. Intention rather than foreknowledge.

This rattled me a bit at first, but the more I thought about it, the less blasphemous and "dangerous" I realized it was. I don't necessarily believe this concept, but it's something I consider a possibility. In my opinion, theology should really be a matter of "possibilities," formed around an unshakable core of truth. You know, like some key underlying ideas that you won't budge on... but lots of peripheral issues and points of view that are open to discussion and interpretation. Because really, as humans... how much can we KNOW? And conversely, how much can we really get on someone else's case for believing differently (I'm talking mainly about inter-denominational disagreements here)?

That's probably why I've embraced a non-denominational church. It's nice to hear a sermon that is willing to deal in hypotheticals. The person of Jesus and the idea of the Bible being God's word is still central to all the teaching (i.e. it's not the "free-for-all" that would digust Mykevermin, I'd like to think), but the stuff that really ought to be taught with flexibility is allowed to remain open to interpretation. And I really appreciate that!
 
I was baptized Catholic and went to church and church school because I was told to. I was confirmed and never went to church voluntarily again. Actually, I go to church for Christmas Mass when I am in NY for Christmas (every other year) but that is basically to placate my mom and because the service is pretty nice.

I always rebelled against religion, even while I was in church school or even in church. I never understood why people believe that God gives a shit about what job we have, what clothes we wear, how we speak, etc.

If there is a God, he should be focused on more important stuff like not letting innocent kids get killed everyday or letting people starve to death.

Listen, something had to create the universe, even if there was a big bang, something had to create the bang. In that sense, I believe there is a higher power or powers as the case may be. I just don't believe they have a hand in any day-to-day activities of anyone or anything. There is too much pain and suffering in this world to think that there is a loving God somewhere out there that is taking care of us. "God works in mysterious ways" is a freaking cop out of epic proportions.

The funny thing is, even if I believed in God, it still wouldn't calm my fears about death. The afterlife is eternity, a concept that freaks me the hell out. Life is finite, another concept that freaks me the hell out. Oh well.
 
I'm a christian southern baptist style and I agree that we all have our problems. I also have no problem listening to Metallica, Pantera, whatever. I don't believe it detracts from my relationship with God at all. What I do think detracts from that is the fact I hardly ever get Sundays off from work......
So work is really the culprit here!

Yeah I'm also an assistant youth leader and i'm like.....20?
 
[quote name='afedock']Roman Catholic and I go to church every sunday.[/QUOTE]


St. Augustine?

Myself, raised Catholic, but spend most of my time with a non denomination Campus Church.
 
Vasco (and anyone else)

Have you ever read "The Screwtape Letters" by C.S. Lewis?

C.S. Lewis is good for a lot of beginners to religion as he's easy to read, and helps put those puzzling concepts like "How can God be everywhere, how can He be eternal?" into perspective.

It's a good start for anyone.

That book is really a fun read whether you're religious or not.
The entire book is a collection of letters from an older Devil to a younger one. He tries his best to teach the younger Devil how to tempt the human he's been assigned to.

A lot of questions like "Why go to Church?, "Why can't I just try to be a good person on my own?", "What does this or that matter?" are answered and given basic foundations on how to understand them.

I think this book is available free online? Seems to be just a preview.
http://books.google.com/books?id=HpydZ7Xl1xwC&dq=screwtape+letters&pg=PP1&ots=hInZVeu51A&sig=K0B_70cmWM7YrOneGIFxMLe5XJw&prev=http://www.google.com/search%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3Dscrewtape%2Bletters&sa=X&oi=print&ct=result&cd=1#PPP1,M1

Seems to work.
I'll type up a bit to see if you or anyone likes it.

First paragraph of the second letter:

My dear Wormwood,

I note with grave displeasure that your patient has become a Christian. Do not indulge the hope that you will escape the usual penalties; indeed, in your better moments, I trust you would hardly even wish to do so. In the meantime we must make the best of the situation. There is no need to despair; hundreds of these adult converts have been reclaimed after a brief sojourn in the Enemy's camp and are now with us. All the habits of the patient, both mental and bodily, are still in our favour.
One of the greatest allies at present is the Church itself. Do not misunderstand me. I do not mean the Church as we see her spread out through all time and space and rooted in eternity, terrible as an army with banners. That, I confess, is a spectacle which makes our boldest temptors uneasy. But fortunately it is quite invisible to these humans. All your patient sees is the half-finished, sham Gothic erection on the new building estate. When he goes inside he sees the local grocer with rather an oily expression on his face bustling up to offer him one shiny little book containing a liturgy which neither of them understands, and one shabby little book containing corrupt texts of a number of religious lyrics, mostly bad, and in very small print".....
Click to expand...
 
C.S. Lewis is awesome. Screwtape is a great start, and Mere Christianity is another one I'd highly recommend for the Christian and non-Christian alike.
 
[quote name='DarkNessBear']Christianity and the majority of other religions are fricken stupid.

I hate that crap.[/QUOTE]

It's okay that you feel that way. Christians still love you, DNB.
 
I was baptized and raised Catholic. I actually stopped going to church when I was younger because I found it boring with all the ceremony and traditions. Now I go to a local community church that's much more open and laid-back, and it seems pretty fun. So I'm glad I decided to give it another try!
 
I've noticed so far that a lot of you seem to go to the "new style" churches, ones that are more laid back and not so strict about rituals and presentations. This is the kind of church I got to also and I really like it. It doesn't really feel like a chore to go anymore. I used to hate getting all dressed up and having to do all the less then exciting rituals and routines that most churches seem to have. I don't think God really cares how you dress or what kinds of strict by-the-book ceremonies you exhibit. I like going and having it be a relaxing experience, not uptight like everyone is teetering on the edge of heaven and hell. Plus I like the newer style music that alot of churches use today. We have a whole band at our church, and they sound pretty good too. I even find myself enjoying some of the songs we sing (even though I don't sing myself) :).
 
Call me old fashioned, (or just Dr. Mario Kart) but I like the rituals, dressing up, rules.

I don't think I could stand to sit in a 'laid back' church for more than a few mins.
 
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