Which CAGs are Christians?

Yeah I can understand why some people would prefer a church service to be like that. I just personally prefer a more laid back approach.
 
I like a good mixture of the two. Nothing too stuffy but not overly relaxed. Suits are fine but hardly necessary. I believe that some effort should be made in regards to your appearance. It is worship, after all. Some old hymns along with newer music works for me, as well. Im probably middle-of-the-road with a tendency towards tradition but nothing too staid.
 
[quote name='dallow']Call me old fashioned, (or just Dr. Mario Kart) but I like the rituals, dressing up, rules.

I don't think I could stand to sit in a 'laid back' church for more than a few mins.[/quote]There's also a metric ton of history to the liturgies that many churches use (Rome and Lutheranism usually being the foremost examples). In our church body, there a fairly constant pull in both directions, some wanting for a "contemporary" style of worship (the more laid back approach), whereas others think we ought to stick with the older worship styles.

Neither is mandated by God in the Bible. I reamin convinced that you should do whatever you can do well. I'm no more in favor of a historical-liturgical service where the pastor trips over himself trying to carry out the ceremony of it all than I am of a contemporary service where the band can't play well and there's a feeling of it being a free-for-all.

As long as a worship service maints Christ's death and resurrection for the forgivness of sins as it's one and only focus (and not spiral off into merely relating how we can be happy or find "purpose" for our lives in ourselves), then either service would be just ducky. The benefit to the historical litrugies is that Christ and God's Word are all ready very central and the focal point of everything. Whereas new services have to be carefully crafted to obtain that focus.

I think we need to be careful about changing the way things have been historically done since the beginning of the Christian church (and some elements even traced back to Jewish worship before Jesus). Doing so, we run the risk of tossing the baby out with the bathwater.

As for a dress code, it would be nice if people wouldn't come to church in stained, ripped clothes. But Jesus forgivness is just as much for the person in the 3 piece suit as it is for the person in shorts and a tshirt. We have a pretty big variety in our church of dress styles, some people even alternating from week to week what they wear.
 
If there is some sort of all-knowing, all-powerful supreme being, he doesn't give a flying fuck about what you wear to church and what you do there.
 
I see the dressing-up thing as a show of respect, personally. For example, you wouldn't go to court in a t-shirt and flip-flops. I'm not passing judgement, just giving my opinion.
 
Baptized a Roman Catholic, confirmed into the Lutheran Church, now I just self practice.

Suits are nice in church. It means that you respect God, His House, and the other worshippers. If you want to jump around in flip flops and listen to bad rock music, go to the fair grounds and have fun. I like to feel comfortable in church but that doesn't mean we have to degrade the sanctity of the experience to make people feel at home.
 
Yeah, I look at the whole dressing up thing as being a matter of decency rather than thinking that God's looking down at you wondering whether you're wearing something nice.
 
Raised Catholic, confirmed Catholic, switched over to atheism.
Now I simply believe that there is a creation force and if you want to refer to that as a god thats cool..none of this Christian mythology stuff ever flew with me though...
 
I too am a Christian, but I prefer not to saddle myself with a denomination. I think Daroga would agree that Christianity is more of a relationship than a religion. For the curious though, I'm a Baptist.
 
I was raised Catholic in an offshoot denomination of, though still in shared communion with, Rome. A Mormon raised sensible objections to the things I believed and caused me to question religion for the first time in my life. I thought her church might be true, and wanted to read both sides of the claims before joining. Suffice it to say that that Did Not End Well, to borrow a phrase.

Then I was an agnostic for six months or so before someone gave me a flawed, but adequate presentation of justification by faith alone - the belief that God loves man solely because of the finished work of Christ on the cross. That was compelling enough to want to read more, and after a good deal of refinement in thought, became a Calvinistic Presbyterian with Puritan/Dutch/Southern presby leanings.

As an aside, I tried to listen to Christian music when I was first working through it. I thought I had to. I also thought most of it was astonishingly defective, whether musically or theologically, and as for worship practices, I couldn't understand why so many were yearning for perpetual kindergarten. Leaving Rome does dissuade one from the concept of 'liturgy', but that didn't mean I was ready to clap in sync with the congregation and sing a monstrosity titled literally "The Happy Song." Consequently, I have more empathy with those uncomfortable with american evangelicalism than my ostensible brethren within.
 
[quote name='depascal22']

Suits are nice in church. It means that you respect God, His House, and the other worshippers. If you want to jump around in flip flops and listen to bad rock music, go to the fair grounds and have fun. I like to feel comfortable in church but that doesn't mean we have to degrade the sanctity of the experience to make people feel at home.[/QUOTE]


I hate that statement so much. You cannot confine God to one man made building. Before Jesus died, God did dwell in their temples, but the instant Jesus died He was released. Now he is everywhere.

I wish people would actually study up on their religion before believing it. Too many people are comfortable with their beliefs without even knowing how things became what they are, or were just raised with it and never questioned what's going on.
 
[quote name='projecteightysix']I hate that statement so much. You cannot confine God to one man made building. Before Jesus died, God did dwell in their temples, but the instant Jesus died He was released. Now he is everywhere.

I wish people would actually study up on their religion before believing it. Too many people are comfortable with their beliefs without even knowing how things became what they are, or were just raised with it and never questioned what's going on.[/quote]


.....
:lol:
 
[quote name='projecteightysix']I hate that statement so much. You cannot confine God to one man made building. Before Jesus died, God did dwell in their temples, but the instant Jesus died He was released. Now he is everywhere.

I wish people would actually study up on their religion before believing it. Too many people are comfortable with their beliefs without even knowing how things became what they are, or were just raised with it and never questioned what's going on.[/QUOTE]

Roffle.:lol:
 
Not me.

I was raised a pretty conservative protestant of some denomination or other, but then I thought about it too much.
 
[quote name='projecteightysix']I hate that statement so much. You cannot confine God to one man made building. Before Jesus died, God did dwell in their temples, but the instant Jesus died He was released. Now he is everywhere.

I wish people would actually study up on their religion before believing it. Too many people are comfortable with their beliefs without even knowing how things became what they are, or were just raised with it and never questioned what's going on.[/QUOTE]
lol.. is this God in a box theory? Jesus' death with like the turning of the crank..
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']lol.. is this God in a box theory? Jesus' death with like the turning of the crank..[/QUOTE]
Please explain what you just said, I don't understand what you mean.

What I was saying is, God's presence was inside certain temples, and only the holiest of holies could even enter. You know the scripture always quoted "The temple curtain was torn in two from top to bottom. ", that curtain was actually where his presence dwelled and I can't remember right, but (i think) no one was allowed behind it. The curtain was actually this huge heavy cloth that nobody could even move.

Anyways, the reason that verse is so important, is the curtain tore and now his spirit is free for him to dwell in us instead of a temple. Which means the new covenant started and we don't need to follow jewish laws and things to be with Him.

I'm sorry if that didn't make sense but I can explain further if you want.

Edit:
Also for my original comment saying I hated the term "God's house" for church buildings, Acts 7:
48
Yet the Most High does not dwell in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says:
49
'The heavens are my throne, the earth is my footstool. What kind of house can you build for me? says the Lord, or what is to be my resting place?
 
chickenjokeLOLgif.gif
 
[quote name='projecteightysix']I hate that statement so much. You cannot confine God to one man made building. Before Jesus died, God did dwell in their temples, but the instant Jesus died He was released. Now he is everywhere.

I wish people would actually study up on their religion before believing it. Too many people are comfortable with their beliefs without even knowing how things became what they are, or were just raised with it and never questioned what's going on.[/quote]Taken the wrong way, I suppose that could be confusing, but I pretty comfortable referring to church as "God's House."

When you come to my house, I'm not there all the time. I'm not under house arrest or anything, so I don't have to stay there all the time. But if you come to my house, it will be the most clear picture of who I am, what I like, who I love. The art, pictures, movies, CDs, etc. paint a picture of me and tell you more than the drive way might.

God certainly is everywhere, but at his house, in church, is where we find the truest picture of him. It's a house dedicated to the express purpose of proclaiming his Word--the forgiveness of sins in Christ. It's certainly not the only place he is, but it's the place where you find the clearest picture of who he is and what he's done.
 
[quote name='PawnTakesKing']I too am a Christian, but I prefer not to saddle myself with a denomination. I think Daroga would agree that Christianity is more of a relationship than a religion. For the curious though, I'm a Baptist.[/quote]I guess it would depend on your definitions. Christianity is certainly a relationship (and in intimate one at that!) with the Creator, Savior God. But it's also a religion, as I would define it, a system of beliefs.

Just a heads up. I get the notion that there's a current of mockery for people's beliefs brewing here. This thread would be fine for Christians to talk about the differences between different denominations, or people struggling with what they believe to post. But I ask that people coming here just to poke fun would be courteous enough to stop and take it elsewhere. Thanks. :)
 
[quote name='dallow']Vasco (and anyone else)

Have you ever read "The Screwtape Letters" by C.S. Lewis?

C.S. Lewis is good for a lot of beginners to religion as he's easy to read, and helps put those puzzling concepts like "How can God be everywhere, how can He be eternal?" into perspective.


First paragraph of the second letter:[/quote]

I have read that book among others. I am not a beginner per say. I have been raised in church since infant. I can quote you bible from left to right. I have a degree from Messiah college for counseling. I have rebelled and lashed out and came back. I just want to put in people's mind the concept of free will. If God knows what's gonna happen to me in the end, where does free will come in. His omniscience knows what choices I make. So why not let life just flow and accept my fate? It's one of my personal mind twisters. Here's another one. If we, who are born out of a womb, have belly buttons.... did Adam and Eve have one as well even though they came from dust and a rib?
 
[quote name='daroga']I guess it would depend on your definitions. Christianity is certainly a relationship (and in intimate one at that!) with the Creator, Savior God. But it's also a religion, as I would define it, a system of beliefs.[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying it shouldn't be considered a religion. I just think that as we're all believers under the same God, denomination is of less importance than our actual relationship with Christ. Baptist...Methodist...Lutheran...the only differences between us are basically doctrinal: HOW we worship rather than whom. But I've gone off on too much of a tangent, I'm afraid. :)

Interesting bit of trivia: "PawnTakesKing" is actually based on a sermon I once heard by Rev. David Ring. Amazing guy, if you've never heard his testimony before.
 
Raised Christian as my dad being a pastor, live very close to Christian beliefs, but don't like the current state of "the church" and think it is currently unhealthy, though things are changing.

I also blur the lines with being an artist since most churches look down at it. So far the only people that seem to be a bit more in my direction are these guys, whom are great:

http://www.iamny.org/

oh, and I don't go to church. I get more out of meeting with friends (christian and non christian) and discussing out of the ordinary stuff as well as ordinary... usually ending in either some cigars floating around or sangria/alcoholic drinks in hand.
 
[quote name='vasco']I have read that book among others. I am not a beginner per say. I have been raised in church since infant. I can quote you bible from left to right. I have a degree from Messiah college for counseling. I have rebelled and lashed out and came back. I just want to put in people's mind the concept of free will. If God knows what's gonna happen to me in the end, where does free will come in. His omniscience knows what choices I make. So why not let life just flow and accept my fate? It's one of my personal mind twisters. Here's another one. If we, who are born out of a womb, have belly buttons.... did Adam and Eve have one as well even though they came from dust and a rib?[/quote]

Ahh I see. I'm sure you're more well versed than me since I've neglected my studies for a while now.

Yes, God knows everything.
I used to then ask, 'then what's the point of life if He already knows how everything turns out, what choices and lives we make?'
I just started to feel that it wouldn't be fair to us to not allow us to live our lives and live out our own destiny.

Bellybuttons.... hmm. Ha.
That's like one of those Simpsons qustions like 'Could God microwave a burrito so hot, that He Himself could not eat it?'
 
[quote name='nharmon91']Episcopal, Go every Sunday, and my church is ballin. Contemporary music, young hot women, cool old people.[/quote]

Got an address? And hot how? Hot as in hot walking down the street or hot compared to the rest of the girls in church?

I agree with more with Rolento's version of a church. Jesus always meant for people to have individual relationships with God that are unspoiled by the clergy. Martin Luther extended that belief but people just ended up forming another church to follow his beliefs. I think people can't just read the Scriptures for themselves and come to any sort of decision about what to believe. It's much easier to listen to a sermon, listen to a couple bad songs, listen to a traditional hymm, and then rush out to catch the football game. You can talk about free will all you want but humanity as a whole seems to follow the masses.
 
[quote name='projecteightysix']I hate that statement so much. You cannot confine God to one man made building. Before Jesus died, God did dwell in their temples, but the instant Jesus died He was released. Now he is everywhere.

I wish people would actually study up on their religion before believing it. Too many people are comfortable with their beliefs without even knowing how things became what they are, or were just raised with it and never questioned what's going on.[/quote]

You're putting words in my mouth. I'm actually against churches. I believe it's important for a person to have his/her own relationship with God outside of the church. On the same hand, churches are where a huge amount of people gather to worship and give praise. So, I called it His house. Get over it. I don't think I'm getting denied entry to Heaven because I screwed up in an internet message board. If you followed Jesus' teachings, you would have kindly pointed out my mistake and we could've laughed about it. Instead, you decided to ATTACK and act like a complete fool because of semantics. You did the exact opposite of what you're supposed to so you could try to act like a superior theologian. Again, I say. Get over it. You can have that debate with Jerry Falwell whenever you pass on.
 
There is no such thing as a Catholic, Muslim, etc. child. There is only the child of Catholic, Muslim, etc., parents. Children who are "Christian" or whatever are merely children who have been indoctrimated by their parents, who were themselves probably indoctrinated by their parents, etc., etc.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']*angry stare*

The Christians would like to be left alone now.[/QUOTE]

Like the Furries? I HATE Furries! :bomb:
 
[quote name='evanft']There is no such thing as a Catholic, Muslim, etc. child. There is only the child of Catholic, Muslim, etc., parents. Children who are "Christian" or whatever are merely children who have been indoctrimated by their parents, who were themselves probably indoctrinated by their parents, etc., etc.[/quote]

You've made your disdain for religion very clear. We get it. Daroga asked earlier to keep the discussion civil but it seems like you just want to stir things up. If you have something constructive to add then do so. Since you seem to have such a strong opinion against religion ,though, this probably isn't the thread for you. Maybe you should move on.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Got an address? And hot how? Hot as in hot walking down the street or hot compared to the rest of the girls in church?

I agree with more with Rolento's version of a church. Jesus always meant for people to have individual relationships with God that are unspoiled by the clergy. Martin Luther extended that belief but people just ended up forming another church to follow his beliefs. I think people can't just read the Scriptures for themselves and come to any sort of decision about what to believe. It's much easier to listen to a sermon, listen to a couple bad songs, listen to a traditional hymm, and then rush out to catch the football game. You can talk about free will all you want but humanity as a whole seems to follow the masses.[/quote]
Im talkin walking down the street hot, its pretty rediculous, I have no idea why my church is loaded but im not complaining.
 
[quote name='depascal22']I agree with more with Rolento's version of a church. Jesus always meant for people to have individual relationships with God that are unspoiled by the clergy. Martin Luther extended that belief but people just ended up forming another church to follow his beliefs. I think people can't just read the Scriptures for themselves and come to any sort of decision about what to believe. It's much easier to listen to a sermon, listen to a couple bad songs, listen to a traditional hymm, and then rush out to catch the football game. You can talk about free will all you want but humanity as a whole seems to follow the masses.[/quote]Not to be picky, but...

What did you mean by "Martin Luther extended that belief"? Luther's goal was never to break apart from the Roman Church; his goal was to reform the errors that he saw in it as it contradicted the Word of God. When Rome was unwilling to bend, he and other with him began worshiping separately from the their masses. His goal was never to do away with the clergy to scrap the concept of the church; in fact, one of his primary goals in the Reformation was to supply teaching tools for the pastors and the layity so that they could be better informed about God's Word (some pastors in rural areas didn't even know the whole of the Lord's Prayer!). Thus, he wrote the catechisms (large and small--large for the teachers/parents, small for the students to study).

A church body is a pretty vital part of maintaining one's faith. Faith doesn't reamin "status quo"; it's either living or dying. Church not only provides a study of God's Word (which hopefully is supplemented through out the week with family/personal study/devotions), but also grants a Christian fellowship with other believers. To cut yourself off from that gathering is not only hurting yourself but also hurting others who would benefit from seeing you.

Perhaps the writer to the Hebrews said it best. "Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching" (Hebrews 10:25). Swallowing whatever Pastor X or Teacher Y might say at a given church is not the "ideal Chrisitan" though. We ought to all be like the Bereans, checking what we hear from a religious leader against the ultimate authority of God's Word (see Acts 17:10-15).

And evan, as others have suggested, if you can't be mature enough to not have inflammatory posts here, please don't post in this thread. The Crotch: despite not seeing eye-to-eye in most anything faith-related, I appreciate your policing and being able to keep extra-topical debate out of this thread. Thanks! :)
 
I didn't really say what I wanted to say. My point was that Luther didn't feel that anyone should have to pay for God's forgiveness. And like daroga eloquently said, Luther did more to bring the understanding of Christ into people's homes. I think that was his intent more than anything. He saw that people were going to church because of community expectations more than anything. The rich went to socialize with other rich people. The poor went looking for hand outs. I think that Luther and Jesus would've been happy if their churches were tree stumps with people sitting around talking about how to better follow Jesus' teachings. I should have said that Luther modified the belief that the Church was the beginning and the end for Christian fellowship. He wanted people to be able to read the Scriptures for themselves and come to educated decisions based on their own studies.
 
I'm Roman Catholic.

Haven't been to church in a LONG time..
Went to catholic school for 8 years :(

..and pretty much stopped the church thing when I found out God didn't like me because I was gay, LOL

But yeah, Roman Catholic here =)
 
[quote name='depascal22']I should have said that Luther modified the belief that the Church was the beginning and the end for Christian fellowship. He wanted people to be able to read the Scriptures for themselves and come to educated decisions based on their own studies.[/quote]And on that there can be no disagreement. The novel ideal of a vernacular Bible was perhaps the most profound thing to happen in the Scriptures were written (coupled at the same time with a robust selection of ancient language tools thanks to the Renaissance and the invention and adoption of the printing press--all coincidences in timing? I think not!).

As a future member of the clergy myself (in just about exactly a year), if there's any clergy member out there who thinks that they hold the keys to the Bible and these "lowly" people who don't have all my learning and understanding need to grovel before me to hear what God has to say should be slapped in the face. The beauty of God's Word is that it is so very, very simply. That's not to say that there's not difficult parts and things that you need to wrestle with (the "solid food," if you will), but the basic message of the Bible is simple, easy-to-drink milk: Sinners deserve God's punishment of Hell. Jesus took that punishment on himself and thus we are set free from our sins.

There is no room for anyone to make up for their sins with good works; there's no "wiggle room" to think that maybe there's something that still needs to be paid for. When Jesus said tetelestai from the cross, he really meant it: "It is finished."

That's the problem that Luther fought in the 1500s, and that's still the problem that Rome officially has on the books. I'm thankful that I know many Roman Catholics who spurn an idea of works-righteousness and trust in their Savior Jesus completely for the forgiveness of their sins, totally apart from any works or merit of their own.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Daroga, which denomination are you going to be ordained in? And do you have a congregation lined up?[/quote]Lutheran (Wisconsin Synod).

The way our church operates is that at the end of the school year, the leaders of our church from around the country get together and examine what churches have vacaines and what their needs are, and then try to match those up with the pastors who have appropriate gifts/weaknesses in those areas. So, I won't know until about this time next year where I'm headed, but at this am sure I'll be headed somewhere. ;)
 
surprised nobody backlashed me for drinking freely, cursing, and smoking cigars. If I did that in a church during social time, I would have gotten the look of shame.
 
[quote name='RelentlessRolento']surprised nobody backlashed me for drinking freely, cursing, and smoking cigars. If I did that in a church during social time, I would have gotten the look of shame.[/QUOTE]

Because EVERYONE does "BAD" things, regardless of what they say.
Pretty much why I don't get much into religion. Hate being told I'm wrong or evil because of something silly.
 
[quote name='RelentlessRolento']surprised nobody backlashed me for drinking freely, cursing, and smoking cigars. If I did that in a church during social time, I would have gotten the look of shame.[/quote]Done in moderation neither drinking for smoking should be considered wrong. Over-indulging in either would be a problem for any number of reasons. Also the setting is probably important too. For me, beer in the entryway of church? Inappropriate. At the church picnic? Sure!

As far as "cursing" goes, it depends on what you mean. If by cursing you mean simple vulgar language, then that would kinda depend on who you're with and whether they're offended by it or not. I've got several friends that we can play games together and call each other all sorts of colorful names and no one takes offense at it, but generally speaking I don't, not because it's really wrong in and of itself, but because it can become to habitual and I find it harder to keep a reign on it when in company that would be offended.

Now actually cursing (damning things to hell) or using God's name carelessly is a different story.
 
[quote name='daroga']Done in moderation neither drinking for smoking should be considered wrong. Over-indulging in either would be a problem for any number of reasons. Also the setting is probably important too. For me, beer in the entryway of church? Inappropriate. At the church picnic? Sure!

As far as "cursing" goes, it depends on what you mean. If by cursing you mean simple vulgar language, then that would kinda depend on who you're with and whether they're offended by it or not. I've got several friends that we can play games together and call each other all sorts of colorful names and no one takes offense at it, but generally speaking I don't, not because it's really wrong in and of itself, but because it can become to habitual and I find it harder to keep a reign on it when in company that would be offended.

Now actually cursing (damning things to hell) or using God's name carelessly is a different story.[/QUOTE]


exactly. I can see we see that in the same vein.

As for me being Christian, I am so but not as a religion. It isn't supposed to be a religion really, but churches sure as hell don't help with that aspect.
 
[quote name='RelentlessRolento']As for me being Christian, I am so but not as a religion. It isn't supposed to be a religion really, but churches sure as hell don't help with that aspect.[/quote]Could you elaborate on that for me? I've never heard this concept before, but it's come up several times in this thread. I'm just curious what exactly you mean by it.
 
[quote name='lilboo']I'm Roman Catholic.

Haven't been to church in a LONG time..
Went to catholic school for 8 years :(

..and pretty much stopped the church thing when I found out God didn't like me because I was gay, LOL

But yeah, Roman Catholic here =)[/QUOTE]


Man, I'm sorry you've got a church that doesn't support you. Our parish has a great Father. He preaches that no one should be excluded from church. His sole reason for that belief is that God doesn't make garbage. He really preaches tolerance and that other religions are no better than an other one. I hope you find a church (no matter what religion) that makes you feel accepted.
 
Yeah, God still loves you if your gay, you may be sining but he still loves you. Oh and come join the Episcopal church because apparently we love gay people.
 
lmao, yes. i'm a terrible, TERRIBLE, person for it :)

Which is why I stay away from religions because it's really annoying about how whacky & judgemental people get :)
 
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