Wii, third-party support, and life

[quote name='dmaul1114']I think Nintendo is kind of in a mixed bag here. They probably want some third party support to gain Marketshare as DMK said. But then again, with there sales and marketing to non-gamers maybe they don't need it so much as selling the console for Wii Sports, Wii Fit etc. might be enough to keep them on top (though that will hurt software attache rates).

On the other hand, their big money maker is their games, so it's to their benefit to have their first party titles not face a lot of competition and be assured to sell millions.[/QUOTE]
I suspect Nintendo wants third parties to come on board and develop the kinds of games that they themselves don't/won't/can't do -- the FPSes, Grand Theft Autos, licensed sports games, etc. Iwata is not an idiot, and he knows that having a broad library makes a system more appealing to customers, and he knows Nintendo can't do it all by themselves.

On the other hand, he also knows that Nintendo can't reasonably expect strong third-party support until there's a sizable user base. The reasonable approach, therefore, is for Nintendo to offer strong first-party support for the first few years, then scale things back as the third parties move in and broaden the library further. It worked for the DS, and there's no reason it won't work for the Wii.

--R.J.
 
[quote name='trq']I think you're conflating a lot of issues there. For one, it seems to me the reason shooters are selling better on the 360 than the Wii is because the Wii has, what two good ones? Red Steel sold over a million units. It has nothing to do with which genre 'belongs' on which console. You're also ignoring the development cost differences.
[/quote]

That is fair. But I also think they'll never do well as FPS is always the genre with pushing edge graphics. So developers who work in that vain are going to focus on making games for the competition, and gamers into that type of cutting edge FPS are going to buy FPS on the competition.

Also, online play is huge with FPS games, and the Wii's online set up is crap compared to the competition.

First off, Nintendo titles generally sell well, regardless -- they don't need to be the only big names on the box.
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Regardless of what? The point holds with the NES, SNES and DS for sure. But for the N64, Gamecube and Wii the third party support was terrible. Off the top of my head, RE4 was the only super, major huge franchise 3rd party game. All the other big games were first or second party for the most part.

Second, the Wii selling like this is unprecedented. If Nintendo wants to sell lots of copies of Mario, it needs to sell lots of systems, and to do that, it needs more big exclusive games than it can make itself.
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That is true, I suppose. They certainly don't seem to be getting much, but there's no way to tell what effort they are putting into getting major third party games (i.e. in major genres and especially in established franchises) with the potential to sell consoles.

It could be that they are trying, but developers are reluctant (despite pressure from publishers I'd suspect) as they want to make games with cutting edge graphics and robust online play, rather than learning how to make good use of motion controls.

Who knows? We don't have the inside scoop.

You're right that we're NOT going to see Nintendo pay a developer for a big exclusive, though -- they know that publishers will eventually see where their bread is buttered and make the logical decision without the Big N having to shell out lots of payola for exclusives. In essence, it's Sony during the PS1 era -- it didn't have to fork over tons of dough for exclusives, because CDs were cheaper and had a better profit margin than carts, and the rest fell into place.
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But Sony did pay for some exclusives over the years didn't they? Buying part of square. Pretty sure they've paid Konami to keep MGS games exclusive or timed exclusive over the years etc.

But the development costs is a fair point, as it is cheaper to develop for the Wii.

But that really just gets us a lot of good Niche games like Zak and Wiki, No More Heroes, etc.

The huge third party franchises that can sell consoles have gigantic budgets, so development costs aren't much of a barrier. And again, developers like Infinity Ward like to push the graphical barrier with their games (look how amazing CoD4 looks) as that's part of their "art" so that may more than offset any savings in development costs for them.
 
[quote name='rjung']
On the other hand, he also knows that Nintendo can't reasonably expect strong third-party support until there's a sizable user base. The reasonable approach, therefore, is for Nintendo to offer strong first-party support for the first few years, then scale things back as the third parties move in and broaden the library further. It worked for the DS, and there's no reason it won't work for the Wii.
.[/QUOTE]

That's an interesting take on it.

The DS was odd with me. It sucked the first year, then was great the second year largely because of third party support and some bigger first party games.

But last year, I only found 3 games worth buying and they were all first party, and on the 2008 list thus far I see no current must buys.

But of course, it's still selling hand over fist, so they obviously don't need my business!
 
I'm going to make an honest effort to buy more third party games.
I have: RE4, RE:UC, and Z&W.

I think I'll buy No more heroes, and Definitly the Dragon Quest game.

Supporting Square-enix is essential aswell, if only N64 had kept the FF series.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']It could be that they are trying, but developers are reluctant (despite pressure from publishers I'd suspect) as they want to make games with cutting edge graphics and robust online play, rather than learning how to make good use of motion controls.[/quote]
Just remember the Golden Rule: "He who has the gold, rules."

Publishers have the gold (and want more, by developing for the Wii).
Developers don't.
'Nuff said.

All this talk about developers wanting to work on bleeding-edge HD, and the tech difference between the Wii and the XBox 360/PS3, and the casual/hardcore market demographic... that's all fanboy wankery bullstuff. If there's money to be made on the Wii, the publishers will go there, whether the prima donna developers want to or not. There has never been a case in the video-gaming industry where the market leader did not get the lion's share of third-party support.

--R.J.
 
[quote name='Hovercraft']I'm going to make an honest effort to buy more third party games.
I have: RE4, RE:UC, and Z&W.

I think I'll buy No more heroes, and Definitly the Dragon Quest game.

Supporting Square-enix is essential aswell, if only N64 had kept the FF series.[/quote]

I am trying to buy good 3rd party titles. I have a few 3rd party games so far. REmake4, both TC games, Z&W, NiGHTS and NMH. I really can't think of too many more i would really want. I do want Ghost Squad and Umbrella Chronicals and House of the Deads.

I don't really think mature games really need to be rated M. Uncharted(I know PS3 game) is a T rated game and is what I would call a mature game. The Metroid Prime series are mature titles as well. It isn't gore or over the top violence that makes a title mature, for me at least. It is the challenge it puts forth and context over content.

I am looking forward to more mature titles on the Wii. Not everything has to be guns and blood. I think Scene It! would be a good line for the Wii. I know it is on the 360. But the Wii is considered a family affair. Scene It! is a family game.
 
[quote name='rjung'] There has never been a case in the video-gaming industry where the market leader did not get the lion's share of third-party support.
[/QUOTE]

That's true when there's a huge leader like there was with the PS2 and PS1.

Before that, it wasn't so bad in the SNES/Genesis era. Those systems were pretty closer in sales (especially the first half of that generation) and first party support was more balanced.

It may be somewhat similar this time. 360 and PS3 will probably end up pretty close, Wii will win, but not by anywhere near the margin the PS1 or PS2 did.

Factor in that the Wii is brining in casual and non-gamers that may lead to weak sales for things like racing sims, FPS etc. and I think we'll see third party support spread relatively equally in terms of numbers, but with the Wii always lacking a bit in genres like FPS due to the more casual user base leading to those genres selling better when put on both the PS3 and 360 ala Call of Duty 4.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']360 and PS3 will probably end up pretty close, Wii will win, but not by anywhere near the margin the PS1 or PS2 did.[/quote]
Have you looked at the numbers lately? Nintendo just released their third-quarter financials yesterday, and revealed that they've shipped 20 million Wiis worldwide already. The Wii is already the fastest-selling video-game system ever, and is on a bullet train to curbstomp PS3 and XBox 360 hardware sales combined without breaking a sweat.

Throw in the fact that Wii software outsold XBox 360 software in North America last month, and have already shipped 113 million games LTD (financials again), and the only people left claiming the Wii doesn't sell games are fanboys in denial.

[quote name='dmaul1114']Factor in that the Wii is brining in casual and non-gamers that may lead to weak sales for things like racing sims, FPS etc. and I think we'll see third party support spread relatively equally in terms of numbers, but with the Wii always lacking a bit in genres like FPS due to the more casual user base leading to those genres selling better when put on both the PS3 and 360 ala Call of Duty 4.[/QUOTE]
The audience is there; everything else is inevitable. If Publisher A doesn't want to develop a "core" game for the Wii because they don't think there's a market for it, they'll have a hard time explaining to the Board of Directors how come Publisher B developed a similar game for the Wii, raked in the money, and left them holding the bag...

--R.J.
 
[quote name='rjung']Have you looked at the numbers lately? Nintendo just released their third-quarter financials yesterday, and revealed that they've shipped 20 million Wiis worldwide already. The Wii is already the fastest-selling video-game system ever, and is on a bullet train to curbstomp PS3 and XBox 360 hardware sales combined without breaking a sweat.
--R.J.[/quote]For reference, I believe MS said a couple weeks ago they had shipped 17.5 million through December?
 
[quote name='Kendal']I am trying to buy good 3rd party titles. I have a few 3rd party games so far. REmake4, both TC games, Z&W, NiGHTS and NMH. I really can't think of too many more i would really want. I do want Ghost Squad and Umbrella Chronicals and House of the Deads.

I don't really think mature games really need to be rated M. Uncharted(I know PS3 game) is a T rated game and is what I would call a mature game. The Metroid Prime series are mature titles as well. It isn't gore or over the top violence that makes a title mature, for me at least. It is the challenge it puts forth and context over content.

I am looking forward to more mature titles on the Wii. Not everything has to be guns and blood. I think Scene It! would be a good line for the Wii. I know it is on the 360. But the Wii is considered a family affair. Scene It! is a family game.[/QUOTE]

Do I have you mixed up with someone else? Were you not pretty biased against Nintendo not too long ago? No harm just curious.

And:
[quote name='botticus']For reference, I believe MS said a couple weeks ago they had shipped 17.5 million through December?[/QUOTE]

The only difference I see here is 360's are breaking pretty regularly (being replaced?), and can be found everywhere. Where as the Wii is gone everywhere.
 
[quote name='botticus']For reference, I believe MS said a couple weeks ago they had shipped 17.5 million through December?[/QUOTE]
Yep. Wii worldwide LTD > XBox 360 worldwide LTD sometime last August.

The only market left where the XBox 360 tops the Wii is North America, and I expect the Wii to outsell it here sometime either in late 2008 or early 2009.

--R.J.
 
[quote name='Snake2715']Do I have you mixed up with someone else? Were you not pretty biased against Nintendo not too long ago? No harm just curious.[/quote]

I think you do. Unless I was posting something painfully sarcastic and you took it as my true feelings. I love Nintendo. They are my favorite game everything. But I am not blind with fanboy love. I actually was planning on getting a Wii only this generation, but things worked out I could get all three. Anyway, you probably do have me mixed up with someone else.
 
I too am trying my best to buy 3rd party titles. I have No More Heroes, RE:UC and RE:4. I just want to see some more magic happen on the Wii with it being in the lead.

I'm sick of 3rd parties taking dumps on it.
 
[quote name='rjung']Have you looked at the numbers lately? Nintendo just released their third-quarter financials yesterday, and revealed that they've shipped 20 million Wiis worldwide already. The Wii is already the fastest-selling video-game system ever, and is on a bullet train to curbstomp PS3 and XBox 360 hardware sales combined without breaking a sweat.
[/QUOTE]

The Wii will win handidly. I was just saying I don't see it being by the ridiculous margin of last gen where the PS2 is over 100 Million and the X-box and GC were in the 20-25 million range.

Yes, Wii is around 20 million. 360 has shipped 17.5 million as botticus pointed out. I think Nintendo ends up winning by a wide margin, say 20-30 million possibly. Just not the over 80 million gap we saw last gen. :D
 
Playstation 2's lead was/is ridiculous. Any console that can be considered a viable current gen alternative because of new game/system availability like 7 years after the fact is amazing.

I never really liked it because I'm not big on RPGs and sports or the epic amounts of shovelware on it, but big props.
 
[quote name='seanr1221']I too am trying my best to buy 3rd party titles. I have No More Heroes, RE:UC and RE:4. I just want to see some more magic happen on the Wii with it being in the lead.

I'm sick of 3rd parties taking dumps on it.[/quote]

Come to think of it I'd say Capcom is hitting them out of the park left and right
 
Aside for the lack of advertising for Zack and Wiki, I'll agree. They can atone for that by announcing a sequel. ;)

--R.J.
 
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