Xbox 360 $299 and $399!!!

[quote name='shrike4242']Shall we take a bet to see which one you get? I'd guess it'll be the $300 one.[/QUOTE]

I'm not going to wager that the opposite will happen, although lionheart4life's post made me a little more comfortable that there is, at least, a remote possibility of getting the "de-lux" version.

Not real money, anyway.
 
[quote name='Roufuss']Wireless controller only gets 30 hours of battery life?

Wow, that's pretty weak... Logitech's can get at least 100 - 150 out of theirs.[/QUOTE]

Yeah...but it doesn't support a wired headset.
 
[quote name='MrMaddness']Yeah...but it doesn't support a wired headset.[/QUOTE]

So, without the headset, do you believe the battery length will be much greater?

Because I'd rather not have to change batteries every week or so.

Hell, I think I read somewhere Logitech is bringing out new wireless controllers soon that will hit a battery life of 200 - 300 with vibration.
 
[quote name='usickenme']prices of extras


* Faceplate ($19.99) - WTF??
• Hard Drive (20 GB) ($99.99)
• Memory Unit (64 MB) ($39.99)
• Wireless Networking Adapter ($99.99)
• Wireless Controller ($49.99)
• Play and Charge Kit ($19.99)
• Rechargeable Battery Pack ($11.99)
• Controller ($39.99)
• Headset ($19.99)
• Universal Media Remote ($29.99)
• Component HD AV Cable ($39.99)
• S-Video AV Cable (US) ($29.99))
• VGA HD AV Cable ($39.99)[/QUOTE]

I can handle $399 for the console , but these peripheral prices seem really high. $19.99 for a plastic faceplate? 64MB memory card for $39.99? A wireless controller for $49.99?! Granted, you get most of the goodies in the $399.99 bundle, but damn, they will be pricey to replace.
 
Eh... $399.99 is not that horrible. I originally expected Microsoft to release a "light" $399.99 version, and a "premium" one at $499.99.

Regardless of my overestimation of the launch price, I'll be sticking with my plan on buying a 360 in about 1.5 to 2 years. ;)
 
[quote name='spoo']Ditto my Mom works for Wal Mart and that is how I got a cheap launch DS :D
10% off is great for hardware. I will be getting my 360 for $360.[/QUOTE]
iconwalmart_r3.gif
will be taking a hit on that one. ;)
 
[quote name='nixts']I can handle $399 for the console , but these peripheral prices seem really high. $19.99 for a plastic faceplate? 64MB memory card for $39.99? A wireless controller for $49.99?! Granted, you get most of the goodies in the $399.99 bundle, but damn, they will be pricey to replace.[/QUOTE]

Considering that a new PS2 8MB memory card is about 25 bucks, 8x that amount (64) for about only double the price isn't bad. Its all relative. $20 faceplates is about what I figured it would be, and I hope that they do come with color schemes to change the dashboard to match the faceplate. As far as the price of the controller, I believe the wavebirds were $40 when they first came out. Take that for what you want.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']The same kind your mother used after she blowed me last night.

My post was meant for the people who decided that they're paying $100 for a 20gb HD when they can supposedly buy one for $15 (stupid argument), and the people that decided that the PS3 for $400 with no hard drive and no accesories is a better deal.

You do get more than just the hard drive for the extra $100.[/QUOTE]

Well, I'm going to stay away from the 'who does what to whom' aspect of this dialogue -- other than pointing out that the past-tense form of 'blow' is 'blew' -- it's the premise behind the thread that I don't agree with.

I had been thinking about buying an XBox 360 at launch, as I'm looking for a second console to have access to the games my NRev may not get. The problem is less about the $400 being a better value than the $300 version (I will concede that it is), the problem is that the system itself doesn't appear to provide much _actual_ value at this price point.

And it's not just the system price itself: look at some of the accessories!
- Nintendo's MC1019 card is as large as the XBox 360 card (calculation based on the 2038 block / 128 MB Nyko memory card at BestBuy.com), yet is priced $10 cheaper.
- The Nintendo Wavebird has roughly the same number of buttons, yet offers better battery life at $15 cheaper.
- The non-wired controller is $10 more than the current generation version (which is $5 more than Nintendo's or Sony's).
- As someone who plans on connecting via Wi-Fi, the console's price jumps up $100 (unlike PS3 or NRev, which will be Wi-Fi capable out of the box).

I could keep going, as Microsoft has apparently jacked the price up on everything associated with this new console. And, if that wasn't bad enough, the feature that I was lead to believe to be included in the XBox 399.99 - a PVR (remember them 'playing' video of the Super Bowl during E3?) - isn't there! The system "connects" to a PC running Media Edition / XP.

I'm not going to pick up an XBox 399.99 at launch; I'll either wait for a price drop -or- skip it and go with a PS3. (Either way, some games that I actually want to play would be nice.) Simply put: this isn't what I thought I would be getting when I had planned to buy Microsoft's console.
 
Okay, so the majority of people on here seem to think this whole thing pretty much sucks. It's obvious M$ was trying to hit that historical (barrier) price point of $300 for the XBOX 360. Unfortunately, they did so by offering a "gimped" version of the system. If the backlash from backwards compatability alone wasn't enough of a clue, then M$ just sorta missed the boat by offering the cheap version that doesn't support it out-of-the-box.

In any case, I have a pretty decent idea...
1) M$ should completely drop the cheaper "core" version of the XBOX 360.
2) Remove the eithernet cable, the headset, the DVD remote and the HD component cable from the more expensive version.
3) Put together the follwing, and ONLY, package...one console, one wireless controller, one 20 Gig hard drive and one basic video cable (non HD component one).
4) If M$ can not bring this package in at a $300 price point, then charge no more than $350 for it.

Okay, let em charge $360 for it. The ad campaign can be "A 360 for $360!" :}~~~
 
[quote name='bjkrautk']
And it's not just the system price itself: look at some of the accessories!
- Nintendo's MC1019 card is as large as the XBox 360 card (calculation based on the 2038 block / 128 MB Nyko memory card at BestBuy.com), yet is priced $10 cheaper.
- The Nintendo Wavebird has roughly the same number of buttons, yet offers better battery life at $15 cheaper.
.[/QUOTE]

-The GC card is 64 megabits, the 360 card is 64 megabytes (8 times larger) plus no card is needed with a harddrive.
-The wavebird is lacking four buttons, vibration, and headset support (sound takes a lot more power to transmit wirelessly, though the 360 battery life still sucks).

EDIT: Plus any USB devices are supposed to work, so a 128mb USB flash drive would cost $15 and work great as a memory card.
 
This might even be in this thread already but has anyone thought about how the old xbox games will be able to access backwards compatibility configurations without having a harddisk? Most likely I just missed something and just ignore my post.
 
I like some of you will be holding off. I am going to wait and see what the other 2 are bring to the table. And wait at least a year after that and then purchase one system.( have too many games to play, and by then ALOT of current gen stuff should be really cheap)

And as far as the xbox goes, I just think they made a mistake by having 2 versions.
 
[quote name='KillerDonkey']This might even be in this thread already but has anyone thought about how the old xbox games will be able to access backwards compatibility configurations without having a harddisk? Most likely I just missed something and just ignore my post.[/QUOTE]

Yeah this is the problem with large threads. Backwards compatibility, which Microsoft has just announced will eventually be complete (so every Xbox game can be played on the 360), will require the hard drive.
 
[quote name='bjkrautk']Well, I'm going to stay away from the 'who does what to whom' aspect of this dialogue -- other than pointing out that the past-tense form of 'blow' is 'blew' -- it's the premise behind the thread that I don't agree with.

I had been thinking about buying an XBox 360 at launch, as I'm looking for a second console to have access to the games my NRev may not get. The problem is less about the $400 being a better value than the $300 version (I will concede that it is), the problem is that the system itself doesn't appear to provide much _actual_ value at this price point.

And it's not just the system price itself: look at some of the accessories!
- Nintendo's MC1019 card is as large as the XBox 360 card (calculation based on the 2038 block / 128 MB Nyko memory card at BestBuy.com), yet is priced $10 cheaper.
- The Nintendo Wavebird has roughly the same number of buttons, yet offers better battery life at $15 cheaper.
- The non-wired controller is $10 more than the current generation version (which is $5 more than Nintendo's or Sony's).
- As someone who plans on connecting via Wi-Fi, the console's price jumps up $100 (unlike PS3 or NRev, which will be Wi-Fi capable out of the box).

I could keep going, as Microsoft has apparently jacked the price up on everything associated with this new console. And, if that wasn't bad enough, the feature that I was lead to believe to be included in the XBox 399.99 - a PVR (remember them 'playing' video of the Super Bowl during E3?) - isn't there! The system "connects" to a PC running Media Edition / XP.

I'm not going to pick up an XBox 399.99 at launch; I'll either wait for a price drop -or- skip it and go with a PS3. (Either way, some games that I actually want to play would be nice.) Simply put: this isn't what I thought I would be getting when I had planned to buy Microsoft's console.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying that the 360 is a good value in itself, I'm saying that in comparison to the PS3's projected launch ($399, no accessories or HD), its a better value.
 
I'm actually glad that all these people have decided to wait, hopefully all of the jack-asses on xbox-live will do the same and not get one.

Wishful thinking I know, but you never know. Cause atleast for me, playing through more than 2 games on halo 2 online and someone not being a retard is like a 2% chance.
 
[quote name='STATIC3D']Okay, so the majority of people on here seem to think this whole thing pretty much sucks. It's obvious M$ was trying to hit that historical (barrier) price point of $300 for the XBOX 360. Unfortunately, they did so by offering a "gimped" version of the system. If the backlash from backwards compatability alone wasn't enough of a clue, then M$ just sorta missed the boat by offering the cheap version that doesn't support it out-of-the-box.

In any case, I have a pretty decent idea...
1) M$ should completely drop the cheaper "core" version of the XBOX 360.
2) Remove the eithernet cable, the headset, the DVD remote and the HD component cable from the more expensive version.
3) Put together the follwing, and ONLY, package...one console, one wireless controller, one 20 Gig hard drive and one basic video cable (non HD component one).
4) If M$ can not bring this package in at a $300 price point, then charge no more than $350 for it.

Okay, let em charge $360 for it. The ad campaign can be "A 360 for $360!" :}~~~[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I can see this. I think my problem is that besides the hard drive and wireless controller, I don't want the stuff in the premium package. I don't need the remote. I have a DVD player and a Tivo. I don't need the HD component cables yet. I just cannot see spending 500+ for the Xbox 360 and games at launch.

The hype during that awful MTV Launch "Event" was a lot of this was supposed to be standard.
 
[quote name='madportagee']I'm actually glad that all these people have decided to wait, hopefully all of the jack-asses on xbox-live will do the same and not get one.

Wishful thinking I know, but you never know. Cause atleast for me, playing through more than 2 games on halo 2 online and someone not being a retard is like a 2% chance.[/QUOTE]


:lol: Okay. This is one pro to the 400 dollar price!
 
Its not ok to be lied to and tricked by microsoft they threw out some smoke n mirrors and want to rip people off an extra 100 dollars no thanks.

Cheap ass even says they wont drop the price of the regular xbox lol jesus just when i thought xbox was gonna pull ahead of playstation .

I remember being annoyed having to buy a memory card for ps2 but lol id have to buy what 200 dollars worth of stuff if i got the cheap xbox.
 
Silience!!!!! the extra 100 is nothing to bitch at.. Im afraid games will be 59.99+ !!!

Thats like alot of crack money going on games.
 
[quote name='Skelah']Its not ok to be lied to and tricked by microsoft they threw out some smoke n mirrors and want to rip people off an extra 100 dollars no thanks.

Cheap ass even says they wont drop the price of the regular xbox lol jesus just when i thought xbox was gonna pull ahead of playstation .

I remember being annoyed having to buy a memory card for ps2 but lol id have to buy what 200 dollars worth of stuff if i got the cheap xbox.[/QUOTE]

Where are you being ripped off and tricked? I think a lot of people are forgetting that THEY JUST ANNOUNCED THE PRICE. Anything you heard prior was pure speculation, so you can't say "Ohh, boo hoo, analysts said I would only pay 300$ for everything because that's how it's always been." fuck that. You realize with this system we're getting more than we ever have before, and I don't mean just an increase in graphics capability per usual. I mean this console is going to do things previously we could only do with our pc's. And the greatest thing is UNLIKE pc's, everyone is on an even playing field (well, not figuring in some retarded laggy internet connections). You'll never have to buy ram, or a new video card. You buy the system. You buy the games. You play. Simple as that. If you don't want the extra shit, don't bitch about it.

I could carry on, but I think it's futile. All I know is I've been slowly paying off my own 360 for the past couple months thanks to my pre-order. I'll pick it up at EB having paid MUCH less than the 399$ (thanks to numerous money-doubling trade-in deals) and I'll bring it home, and be elated. Because it's not everyday us gamers get a new system. In fact, only once every 4 or 5 years are we that lucky. And whether anyone wants to admit it or not, come November, the 360 is going to be the most powerful console around. Count your praises guys.

~Stew
 
[quote name='Skelah']Its not ok to be lied to and tricked by microsoft they threw out some smoke n mirrors and want to rip people off an extra 100 dollars no thanks.

Cheap ass even says they wont drop the price of the regular xbox lol jesus just when i thought xbox was gonna pull ahead of playstation .

I remember being annoyed having to buy a memory card for ps2 but lol id have to buy what 200 dollars worth of stuff if i got the cheap xbox.[/QUOTE]


Are you new to the game. I have bought a $300 Sega CD and a $50 cart for saves when Shining Force CD came out and when PSX came out I paid the $300 for the system then the $30 for a memory card that could only hold 15 saves then a few more $30 memory cards a few years later $35 for S-Video cables then $150 more for a second PSX when my first one pooped out on me then while buying the dumbass fucking N64 to pay $70 a fucking game then pay up the wazoo for an expansion pack to pay more for a fucking system that should have been a CD-ROM but no the big N had to go with stupid carts then to pay $199 for the DC with the $35 VMUs and then I paid around $50 in batteries because they didn't last more then 2 hours only for Sega to drop all support to the DC after being fucked in the ass by sega before then stupidly spend $300 on PS2 then $70 on two memory cards only to have the PS2 piss out on me but I found out they would fix it for free only to break a few months later then as trying to fix it myself because I didn't want to be without it for 3 motha fucking weeks while breaking it trying to fix it having to spend $200 on a new one then buying a HDD for $52 (thank you Target rain checks) not to be supported by anyone after they made the PSTwo with no HDD support.

I know thais is incoherent run-on babbling but I do not feel fucked with the $399 360 because this is more of a "value pack then the PSP" I don't feel fucked because I have the god damn option to buy the striped down fucking model for $100 cheaper if I damn well please.


Please ignore this I am just venting 'cause I am the guy who must have the new system.

FWI I am not an Xbox fanboy I don't even own an Xbox I am just sick of Sony, Nintendo and Sega so any fresh air is good air.
/end of rant
//This post is full of spelling, grammar and reasoning errors
///back to normal posting
 
3 Things:

1.) Xbox 360 for $360 seems like it could happen AFTER a few months, when demand slows

2.) I personally will wait for the $399 to drop to the $299. You know that eventually the "current" $299 will be eliminated.

3.) For those who can't afford both anyway (like me), why not just wait for the PS3 launch and a.) see which is better and b.) listen for a price drop on the 360 if that still sounds better.
 
[quote name='spoo']FWI I am not an Xbox fanboy I don't even own an Xbox I am just sick of Sony, Nintendo and Sega so any fresh air is good air. [/QUOTE]
That ship has already sailed...
 
I'll be waiting on it, and frankly, M$ is shooting itself in the foot. I've yet to see a truly killer app shown so far (not promising considering launch is only a few months away), and this "strategy" is only going to magnify that, especially if the $299 version actually limits your gameplay experience (such as dumbing down or eliminating XBOX live). Bungie had better be working on HALO 3, M$ is going to need it.

I realize that at $399, M$ is still probably going to be selling them at a loss, but I can't personally justify that much, nor can I justify spending $299 on the "core" console (sounds like it's been castrated). The last console that I bought at launch was the Dreamcast, and it appears that it will remain so for the time.
 
Again, we are guessing that developers are going to develop for the "low end" machine and not make "full" use of the hard drive. We won't really know until after the first year of 360 and how the games shape up. I usually never buy a system at it's release price anyway. The only two that I have bought at release price were the PS2 (backwards compatibility and hype got to me) and the GBA SP (because I was going blind with the old GBA). Eventhough, I'm not planning on getting a 360 at launch, the $400 price tag isn't that bad considering what your getting with it when compared to the base model. Also, I think the average consumer won't be confused on the differences between both packages. With the internet and Xbox's marketing, I think the average consumer will do some research before deciding which 360 package to buy. The 360 will probably have a successful launch, but to gain a stronger foothold in the market I would like to see that "must have" game come out early in it's life cycle.
 
IMO Microsoft should have bunled the core console with a 64 mb memory card. Because if you buy the core sysytem at $299 you will need some type a memory and the 64mb card will be $40. So why not spend the extra $60 and get a 20gb hardrive, wireless controller, dvd remote, and xbox live headset. IMO the Xbox 360 at $399 is quite a good deal and I will be picking one uo at launch with a few games. As far as the PS3 is going I may sound crazy, but I think it will fail just because Sony has been on the downfall for a few years alla PSP(Where are the games that aren't on the consoles?) The PS3 may have the graphical advantage but think about it looking at what the 360 graphics look like can they get much better. So come Holiday season I will be picking up my Xbox 360 with quite a few games. The average console has a life span of about 4-5 years so at $399 it would cost me only like 27 cents a day over 4 years and 22 cents a day over 5 years. So if you keep a console for a few years I think the investment is worth it.
 
[quote name='MadFlava'] The 360 will probably have a successful launch, but to gain a stronger foothold in the market I would like to see that "must have" game come out early in it's life cycle.[/QUOTE]

Ya look for Halo 3 to be anounced a few days before launch with a few screenshots and one video. I'll put my money on it if this happens. This would be very smart of MS not only would it build hype for the the launch but it would gaurentee strong sales until the release of Halo 3.
 
[quote name='PenguinMaster']--The wavebird is lacking four buttons, vibration, and headset support (sound takes a lot more power to transmit wirelessly, though the 360 battery life still sucks).
[/QUOTE]

I hope I'm misunderstanding you. The wavebird has ONE less button than the PS2/XB controllers. Not four.

As far as the price, I'm not going to say that it's too high for what you're getting, but is anyone else disheartened by this trend? $400 for consoles, $40-$50 for a controller, $40 for a memory card...

Let's talk in simplified terms for an example: Say the 'power' of the 360 and PS3 is 10 and the price is $400. I can afford that, but it seems like a lot for a game machine (I don't care about the other things they can do, I want to play games). I would be much more interested in a console whose 'power' was more like an 8 but was $200-$250. Remember, these things get replaced every five years. Companies can make claims about lengthening the lifespan of consoles to more like ten years, but five years from now they will have something new. Count on it.

It's a shame the Dreamcast lost support and Sega's out of the hardware business. They really got that launch right, it was a great power to cost ratio.

I guess I'm getting old, but I miss the time when these things were toys.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Man, I sure hope that the free Xbox 360 pyramid scheme I'm in (cheap signature plug!) will provide me with the $400 version.

Though I'd be a damn fool to think that's what I'll get. In the end, irony will take over as I spend $200-300 acquiring all the items in the "de-lux" version that I did not acquire with my "free" Xbox. :roll:[/QUOTE]
They generally ship checks for the retail value. Atleast, thats how I got my Xbox.
 
[quote name='megashock5']I hope I'm misunderstanding you. The wavebird has ONE less button than the PS2/XB controllers. Not four.[/QUOTE]

Actually, I think he's right about that. The Wavebird is obviously missing the shoulder button, but it is also missing the "Back" button and the analog sticks don't click in for the R3 & L3 buttons either. So that's 4 buttons. Maybe I'm wrong about the analog sticks not clicking on the Wavebird, but I don't think I've ever played a game that has used them in that manner, so I don't think that option is there.
 
[quote name='shipwreck']Actually, I think he's right about that. The Wavebird is obviously missing the shoulder button, but it is also missing the "Back" button and the analog sticks don't click in for the R3 & L3 buttons either. So that's 4 buttons. Maybe I'm wrong about the analog sticks not clicking on the Wavebird, but I don't think I've ever played a game that has used them in that manner, so I don't think that option is there.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I completely forgot about the clicking sticks. Not too many games use them, but they are there. I'm not sure what you mean by the 'back button though. PS2 has 'select' and 'start' where the GC just has 'start.' Is that what you're talking about?
 
[quote name='MadFlava']Again, we are guessing that developers are going to develop for the "low end" machine and not make "full" use of the hard drive. We won't really know until after the first year of 360 and how the games shape up.[/quote]
Historically speaking, developers make games for the lowest common denominator. Unless the vast majority of Xbox owners buy the hard drive, it's not a good idea to spend money developing for a piece of hardware that only a fraction of the userbase has.

I think the biggest problem with the 360 isn't the price itself, it's that if you don't buy the $400 version (and sometimes, even if you do), you're getting less functionality than the competition offers. If you want the 360 to be on the same playing level as the PS3 and Revolution, you'll have to pay a pretty hefty sum:

-The PS3 and Revolution both offer wireless controllers by default. For the 360, they cost extra.
-The Revolution has built-in Flash memory. It's not 20 GB, but at least developers can support it because everyone has the same stuff.
-The PS3 has a similar HDD to the 360, but it's rumored to come preinstalled with Linux. The price and size aren't confirmed yet, but Sony will probably try to top Microsoft in that area. It's not much, but it's better than getting paying $100 for 20 GB and some cheesy little "game".
-Even if you don't like the hard drive idea, the PS3 and Rev will both support standard Flash memory, so you don't have to pay obscene prices for small memory cards.
-The Revolution and PS3 both offer built-in Wi-Fi support. With the 360, it costs $100 extra.
-The Revolution will offer free online gaming. The PS3 pricing hasn't been announced yet, but if the PS2 was any indication, it'll be cheaper than Live. Microsoft announces Live as a major selling point of the console, but you have to pay for it.
-The PS3 and Revolution will both be backwards compatible with multiple generations. Given Nintendo and Sony's histories with backwards compatibility, it's a pretty sure bet that they'll deliver. With the 360, you have to buy the premium model just for b/c with one generation, and even then we don't know how well it'll work.
-Revolution and PS3 will interact with the DS and PSP. It's not a huge selling point, but it's nice for the owners of those handhelds.
 
[quote name='megashock5']Yeah, I completely forgot about the clicking sticks. Not too many games use them, but they are there. I'm not sure what you mean by the 'back button though. PS2 has 'select' and 'start' where the GC just has 'start.' Is that what you're talking about?[/QUOTE]

Yes, the Xbox version of "select" is "back". And quite a few FPS use the clicking sticks on the Xbox for zooming or crouching. They are significant buttons in a lot of games.
 
[quote name='shipwreck']Yes, the Xbox version of "select" is "back". And quite a few FPS use the clicking sticks on the Xbox for zooming or crouching. They are significant buttons in a lot of games.[/QUOTE]

I see. I probably should have worded it that I personally haven't played that many games that use them. Some, but not too many. I don't typically play FPS and wasn't aware of that, but it's a huge genre so I understand your point.

I do fear that Nintendo will have even fewer buttons this time around (from their comments). However, if they can come in at $199 or so I'll be interested.
 
[quote name='shipwreck']Yes, the Xbox version of "select" is "back". And quite a few FPS use the clicking sticks on the Xbox for zooming or crouching. They are significant buttons in a lot of games.[/QUOTE]

Damn skippy right they are. Most of the recent FPS games use the Halo-style of controller orientation, so right-stick click is zoom on sniping. Left-stick click is crouch.
 
[quote name='shrike4242']Except for lack of backwards compatibility w/o the hard drive. Nothing important there. :roll:[/QUOTE]

eventually most if not all the games will be B/C...and you'll be able to utilize this if you have the harddrive...i doubt many of you will buy the "non hard drive" one since a memory card costs 40 bucks and a hard drive itself costs 100 bucks...so the hard drive bundle is the "best value"
 
[quote name='swetooth9']for people who think that developers will make games geared towards the "lowest common denominator"...[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, the lowest common denomimator for the PS2 was "without" a hard drive, so little to no HDD-supported software ever made it stateside as a result. I'm afraid this is what will happen with 360 as well. :cry:
 
[quote name='MaxBiaggi2']Unfortunately, the lowest common denomimator for the PS2 was "without" a hard drive, so little to no HDD-supported software ever made it stateside as a result. I'm afraid this is what will happen with 360 as well. :cry:[/QUOTE]
While this might end up happening, an important factor to the PS2's lack of HDD support was its extremely late release relative to the system's original launch. The 360 is launching with a hard drive available on day 1, and while this won't encourage devs to utilize it as much as if they'd included it with EVERY system, it should probably get more support than the PS2 did (and even the PS2 got SOME support).

Somebody commented on Joystiq, saying that early PC games had multiple instalation configurations (the people that had more space could choose to install more, so the game didn't have to rely on the CD as much). Why couldn't devs do this for 360 games? Have an option in the game that detects if you have the HD, and if you do, it could alleviate load times a little.

Would this be that hard to do?
 
[quote name='evilmax17']Why couldn't devs do this for 360 games? Have an option in the game that detects if you have the HD, and if you do, it could alleviate load times a little. Would this be that hard to do?[/QUOTE]

As the saying goes, "anything is possible." However, most developers probably aren't going to spend the extra time and effort necessary to do this. That's extra time and effort the developer could be spending on their next project, so if Microsoft really wanted to ensure the HDD was supported, they should have included it with every system sold. Bad move on their part. . .
 
[quote name='megashock5']I see. I probably should have worded it that I personally haven't played that many games that use them. Some, but not too many. I don't typically play FPS and wasn't aware of that, but it's a huge genre so I understand your point.

I do fear that Nintendo will have even fewer buttons this time around (from their comments). However, if they can come in at $199 or so I'll be interested.[/QUOTE]

Don't forget that the Nintendo Controller's triggers have both an analog and digital button click merged together. There are two extra buttons right there.


Oh, and has anyone pointed out that 2.4 GHz is an incredibly moronic choice of frequency for wireless controllers? I couldn't use the controller and run the Wi-Fi Network that I currently have to reach XBox Live?!?
 
[quote name='bjkrautk']Don't forget that the Nintendo Controller's triggers have both an analog and digital button click merged together. There are two extra buttons right there.


Oh, and has anyone pointed out that 2.4 GHz is an incredibly moronic choice of frequency for wireless controllers? I couldn't use the controller and run the Wi-Fi Network that I currently have to reach XBox Live?!?[/QUOTE]

You can't use the digital click button on the Gamecube controllers triggers though without using the analog portion as well, so I don't think that really qualifies as another two buttons.

The 2.4GHz wireless controllers will not effect the Wi-Fi Network you are using in the slightest. The Logitech controllers currently use 2.4GHz and there's no problem.
 
[quote name='MaxBiaggi2']As the saying goes, "anything is possible." However, most developers probably aren't going to spend the extra time and effort necessary to do this. That's extra time and effort the developer could be spending on their next project, so if Microsoft really wanted to ensure the HDD was supported, they should have included it with every system sold. Bad move on their part. . .[/QUOTE]

according to the article, 85 % of the xbox 360s that will be sold are going to be the one with the hard drive...
 
[quote name='swetooth9']according to the article, 85 % of the xbox 360s that will be sold are going to be the one with the hard drive...[/QUOTE]

That's a projection, a guesstimate if you will. It may have little in common with the actual number of systems eventually shipped with and without a hard drive. Never underestimate the ignorance of consumers. I believe far more of them will buy the bare bones edition than the article suggests.
 
Wow i dont wanna be an a** here b/c this site is great for deals and i love contributing but I am surprised how misinformed about consoles/Pc's and hardware and game development some people in here are so without "qouting" anyones posts i'll just answer them with a Q&A:

Q1. $460 to get into a system (the $299 is a joke with the "pricepoint driven" configuration that they're working to put out) with a single game is a crock of shit when I'm not guaranteed that all of my titles (like shipwreck, I have more than a couple XB games) will work. Some of them, yes, most of them, maybe, though all of them, not sure? No thanks. I'm taking my $50 from my pre-order back and if I end up having issues with my current Xbox, I'll apply it to keep it going for a year from when I send it in.

They've said all along that the backwards compatibility required the HD. Can they guarntee every hobunk title every made will run..NO..but they have said those that do will require the HD as that's how that generation of games were developed.. He can take his 50 bucks and enjoy gaming on the old system while all his buddies are on the 360.

Plus, the whole issue with "no HD-DVD drive now, though maybe in the future" sort of screws you if you buy now, since what happens when they do ship a Xbox 360+ (or whatever they call it, 360A, Mk. 2) with an HD-DVD drive in 12-18 months from launch, or whenever they do it, what happens with the games? Do you need to look for the box to say "only plays on Xbox 360 w/HD-DVD drive"?

Answer=Is he for real? Like MS is going to eventually launch the HD DVD and allow games developed for 360 to NOT WORK on it? Get a clue. If and when the HD DVD comes out I would think it to be next gen since it's not slated for 360 now. We're talkin 2years out from things I've read.

Q2. GOD I hope this isn't true. I REALLY wanted games to utilize the HDD. Now truly the XBox 360's specs mean SHIT all to the PS3's in terms of game size. Same game on both systems, with the PS3's version looking better

Answer=Now truly the 360 specs mean shaq-fu since it can be shipped without a HDD? Is he for real? Now the specs mean even more as the processing is going to be done on the fly via caches and RAM. This is ALL hardware power now..no more caching to the HDD for anything. To me if MS is comfortable launching without a HDD that only strengthens the fact that their internal processing is all the more powerful.

Q3. By forcing developers not to include the streaming from the harddrive, load times will be more dependent on disc/DVD access times, which are nowhere near as fast as with the HD.

Answer=Again.don't see the issue. So they don't cache to the HD..they'll instead cache to RAM which is waaaaay faster than HD reads anyday.

Q4.Today they pissed off a lot of developers, and basically cut out a big part of their online strategy, because without a HD, people won't have anywhere to download updates and new maps.

Answer-Have they pissed off a lot of developers today? Ahh..i'm pretty sure the development shops have been aware of this requirement for a long time. Imagine the head guy at UBI walking in today to an email from MS that says..Ahh..just an FYI you need to make sure that GR3 you're set to launch in December can't use the HDD. WTF...they've known this for a looooooooooooong time.

Q5. I must say though I am also wondering how they'll handle download content for map updates and such. Maybe it's simply..if u have a HD you can get it if not..SOL..

Because of the HD drop, I think that the overall level of game design has just been pulled down a few notches. Developers who were excited to jump onboard the 360 wagon are now thinking twice.

Answer=This is complete bullshite..IMHO (see earliler comment).





I even posted this on a forum for gaming/development and they responded the same:

I have the exact same opinion as Osok's, I've been in other forums where die hard xbox fans are saying they'll wait for the PS3. It is crazy what people don't understand about these new consoles.

Issue 1: "OMFG there is no HDD to cache my in game processes...load times will be suckier than my mom on a sunday after noon."

First off, these idiots obviously have no clue that the connection between a "mechanical" hard drive to the processor is the SLOWEST connection inside a console or PC. You want fooking load times a** cache to your HDD, you want blazing fast load times cache to the ENORMOUS amount of dedicated RAM in the system. (This will be for the 360 and PS3...so shut your hole fan boys)



Issue 2: "I'm a stinky man whore that wants to watch PORN in HD-DVD...MS is screwing with my blue balls....I'm waiting for the PS3 and the HUGE Blue Ray Disks."

My Answer: Hey fooknut, why should MS even host the issue of this since I CAN NOT GO OUT AND BUY "SPACEBALLS" ON HD-DVD...WHY....BECAUSE THE Fookin FORMAT DOES NOT EXIST!!!!!. And dork boy when the final Next Gen Media source is out and it is not Blue Ray...your fooked. All you have is KILLZONE 5 with 2Gigs of space used on a 25Gig disk that you paid an extra 200 dollars for because your PS3 was sooo next gen. I've never heard of a game even fully uncompressed being more the 2-3 Gigs, and that is a pc game with expansion packs, you dorks think a 6-8 Gig game will be out in the next 5 years..below me.



Issue 3: "I can't play Wacked on my 360...Bill Gates I'm gonna hunt your non backward compatability a** down and spermitate down your throat. "

MY Answer: Kill yourself now.............Please. This is a new console you penal swashbuckler, people are going crazy over the PS3 because Sony CLAIMS they can play there PS1 titles on it.... Who fooking gives a crap, get your big boy suit on and buy some new games.



Issue 4: "Today they pissed off a lot of developers and my pie hole, and basically cut out a big part of their online strategy, because without a HD, people won't have anywhere to download updates and new maps."

MY answer... Buy the fooking hard drive you tight a** moothafooka...then DL all the GR3 maps you want

Issue 5: Because of the HD drop, I think that the overall level of game design has just been pulled down a few notches like my girfriends stuff. Developers who were excited to jump onboard the 360 wagon are now thinking twice.

MY Answer: Proof this guy clearly was neglected to inform his own cavern of spooo that he does not have a clue what he is talking about. Developers have been working on the 360 for 1-2 years now......................and I THINK THEY KNOW WHAT THE FooKING SPECS ARE!!!


Holy sheite there a ton of a**holeioes out there that I hope don't get the 360...these are the same whiney babies that play Halo 2 everynight.


Now back to daddy= i hope this has informed you guys about 360 and i'd hate to see you guys miss out on what looks like a solid system. Dont cancel those pre-orders before you know all the facts....read up in Sept issue of (gaming mag name slips my mind,but has Ghost recon on the cover) where they talk about the cache and how it makes the game have ZERO load time if you need some "official" proof of what i've posted since i'm sure you ll only believe that. Hope I've turned some of you back to 360
 
[quote name='rohlfinator']Historically speaking, developers make games for the lowest common denominator. Unless the vast majority of Xbox owners buy the hard drive, it's not a good idea to spend money developing for a piece of hardware that only a fraction of the userbase has.

I think the biggest problem with the 360 isn't the price itself, it's that if you don't buy the $400 version (and sometimes, even if you do), you're getting less functionality than the competition offers. If you want the 360 to be on the same playing level as the PS3 and Revolution, you'll have to pay a pretty hefty sum:

-The PS3 and Revolution both offer wireless controllers by default. For the 360, they cost extra.
-The Revolution has built-in Flash memory. It's not 20 GB, but at least developers can support it because everyone has the same stuff.
-The PS3 has a similar HDD to the 360, but it's rumored to come preinstalled with Linux. The price and size aren't confirmed yet, but Sony will probably try to top Microsoft in that area. It's not much, but it's better than getting paying $100 for 20 GB and some cheesy little "game".
-Even if you don't like the hard drive idea, the PS3 and Rev will both support standard Flash memory, so you don't have to pay obscene prices for small memory cards.
-The Revolution and PS3 both offer built-in Wi-Fi support. With the 360, it costs $100 extra.
-The Revolution will offer free online gaming. The PS3 pricing hasn't been announced yet, but if the PS2 was any indication, it'll be cheaper than Live. Microsoft announces Live as a major selling point of the console, but you have to pay for it.
-The PS3 and Revolution will both be backwards compatible with multiple generations. Given Nintendo and Sony's histories with backwards compatibility, it's a pretty sure bet that they'll deliver. With the 360, you have to buy the premium model just for b/c with one generation, and even then we don't know how well it'll work.
-Revolution and PS3 will interact with the DS and PSP. It's not a huge selling point, but it's nice for the owners of those handhelds.[/QUOTE]

Maybe it's just me but isn't it rather dumb to be saying that 360 doesn't have this or that compared to the PS3 or Revolution. I do not see Sony or Nintendo delivering a package with a price or list of what functionality the system will have. Sony and Nintendo are 6 months to a year behind MS on this new generation.
 
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