Xbox One on the way. DRM removed, more details to come.

[Ashane]

Reading the MS Employee seems a bit.. off. Like hes taking several direct talking points from /r/Xboxone and actually copy pasting them in, so no, I'm not sure how accurate it is.

However, did I expect it to be the be all end all? Of course not. I kind of expected it to be 1+1 and that was it, only one other person at a time playing. Which I would have been ecstatic with.

It's a bit too late now though. Since its on pastebin, it all must be true, and will be true in gamers minds. Therefor, it really was a 1 hour demo regardless of what it "actually" was.

If you go back, read my posts, and others on here. We never said the article was true, just that it was reasonable.

Exactly. The only reason we're commenting on an anonymous source is because no one at MS ever went into detail as to how exactly the trading and sharing system were going to work. We were only given a basic outline.

And now the people who filled in the blanks with the best case scenarios are dissapointed about features that If you looked at it with common sense and in a calm level-headed manner, were not going to be all that great.

Again, how can you say that? Because your believing 100% a anonymous source.

Please dont state things as facts when clearly they arent, it just makes you look gullible.

The bottom line is, we will never know the truth about it until such a time as Xbox One 2 (or whatever they call it, lol) and it maybe comes again. All the rumor/speculation is just that... rumor/speculation. Of course those who were against it are going to attempt to state it as fact, but it certainly isnt.

 

[MetalSlugger]

Reading the MS Employee seems a bit.. off. Like hes taking several direct talking points from /r/Xboxone and actually copy pasting them in, so no, I'm not sure how accurate it is.

However, did I expect it to be the be all end all? Of course not. I kind of expected it to be 1+1 and that was it, only one other person at a time playing. Which I would have been ecstatic with.

It's a bit too late now though. Since its on pastebin, it all must be true, and will be true in gamers minds. Therefor, it really was a 1 hour demo regardless of what it "actually" was.

If you go back, read my posts, and others on here. We never said the article was true, just that it was reasonable.

Exactly. The only reason we're commenting on an anonymous source is because no one at MS ever went into detail as to how exactly the trading and sharing system were going to work. We were only given a basic outline.

And now the people who filled in the blanks with the best case scenarios are dissapointed about features that If you looked at it with common sense and in a calm level-headed manner, were not going to be all that great.

Again, how can you say that? Because your believing 100% a anonymous source.

Please dont state things as facts when clearly they arent, it just makes you look gullible.

The bottom line is, we will never know the truth about it until such a time as Xbox One 2 (or whatever they call it, lol) and it maybe comes again. All the rumor/speculation is just that... rumor/speculation. Of course those who were against it are going to attempt to state it as fact, but it certainly isnt.

the grapes, they are so sour

 

[aptanor]

Where are you seeing Sony was planning to use the same sort of DRM as MS? The only evidence is that they patented something that could possibly have been that several months ago, but Sony stated that was completely unrelated to the PS4 and is for another product in development. Whether that's actually true is shaky, but we really don't know one way or the other.

And Sony helped themselves by doing right by their consumers. Their goals coincided with what people wanted them to do, so everyone wins.

The reddit link on the previous page. Click the user post history and read a few of his other posts.

It's clear he's working/knows someone working in a gaming studio, question is which one. Says it isnt EA, but it isnt small either. Must be multiplat, so I'm thinking Ubisoft, but who knows.

Might be. Isn't any more substantiated than anybody else posting on a forum (like the family sharing quote above), so who knows.

After reading through that I still don't understand how that guy can keep saying that Sony is saving GS when the MS DRM supported them completely.

They were likely going to be a authorized reseller, however I think we all know the plan was to eventually simply go all digital and phase GS out completely.

It's funny though, people are linking the family plan as if its gospel and yet are going to ignore a same anon that says Sony was doing the exact same thing as MS.

Neither of them are solid fact though. Honestly I'm more persuaded to believe that Sony wasn't planning to do DRM than to believe MS wanted to let 10 people all share the same copy of a game.

 

[DestroVega]

[quote name="highoffcoffee496" post="10846181" timestamp="1371741398"]

[quote name="aptanor" post="10846154" timestamp="1371740699"]

[quote name="DestroVega" post="10846036" timestamp="1371736925"]

[quote name="highoffcoffee496" post="10845924" timestamp="1371732334"]
[quote name="Ashane" post="10844132" timestamp="1371675391"]
Well, feel sorry for those selling all their 360 stuff and boycotting MS. LOL.[/quote]Why would I feel sorry for boycotting MS? They are still a terrible company who tried to push all these extreme anti-consumer requirements onto us. This boycotting helped lead to these changes we saw yesterday.

I'll admit I have always been a huge PlayStation fan and have never liked MS, but this whole fiasco has made me dislike the company even more. HOWEVER, it's nice to see they did change their policies because it seemed like the PS4 was going to destroy it; I don't want that because competition is good for the industry.

Today, everyone wins. I still have no plans to get an Xbox One and had planned to never get one. But now it's nice to know I will pick one up eventually when they are $200 or less. There are some games I'm interested in (Quantum Break) but I can't support a company anytime soon who tried pulling this kind of stunt. They need to earn my trust back.[/quote]
LOL

They need to earn your trust back. What are they, a girlfriend who cheated on you? Get a life.
[/quote]
Well that was rude. Consumers and the companies that produce the products they purchase do have a relationship of sorts, and your girlfriend analogy is actually a good one. If a company does something you don't like, lies about their products, or otherwise does something to harm that relationship, like in this case MS DRM, you have every right to "break up" with them. If a company does things that benefit you as the consumer then that strengthens the relationship. Even though MS has cancelled their DRM plans they've still damaged the relationship with their consumers, and it will take a lot more than backtracking to completely repair it.
[/quote]

Seriously, Trust matters between a company and it's customers. It really is that ing simple.

Glad to see some understand my viewpoint [/quote]

But they reversed their stance, they did what the Internet posters wanted! It's not like the system came out and they changed after. They didn't wrong anyone, it never happened.

 

[Ashane]

Neither of them are solid fact though. Honestly I'm more persuaded to believe that Sony wasn't planning to do DRM than to believe MS wanted to let 10 people all share the same copy of a game.

See, I'd believe the opposite, because Sony has a history of it. (DRM, Rootkits)

So, there ya go Opinions are grand eh.

 

[PenguinMaster]

But they reversed their stance, they did what the Internet posters wanted! It's not like the system came out and they changed after. They didn't wrong anyone, it never happened.

True, but the fact that they pushed such a horrible practice in the first place makes you wonder what else they may try to implement in the future.

 

[htz]

Bobby Kotick is going to allow you to share Call of Duty Ghost with up to 10 family members... lol

 

[aptanor]

Why would I feel sorry for boycotting MS? They are still a terrible company who tried to push all these extreme anti-consumer requirements onto us. This boycotting helped lead to these changes we saw yesterday.

I'll admit I have always been a huge PlayStation fan and have never liked MS, but this whole fiasco has made me dislike the company even more. HOWEVER, it's nice to see they did change their policies because it seemed like the PS4 was going to destroy it; I don't want that because competition is good for the industry.

Today, everyone wins. I still have no plans to get an Xbox One and had planned to never get one. But now it's nice to know I will pick one up eventually when they are $200 or less. There are some games I'm interested in (Quantum Break) but I can't support a company anytime soon who tried pulling this kind of stunt. They need to earn my trust back.

LOL

They need to earn your trust back. What are they, a girlfriend who cheated on you? Get a life.

Well that was rude. Consumers and the companies that produce the products they purchase do have a relationship of sorts, and your girlfriend analogy is actually a good one. If a company does something you don't like, lies about their products, or otherwise does something to harm that relationship, like in this case MS DRM, you have every right to "break up" with them. If a company does things that benefit you as the consumer then that strengthens the relationship. Even though MS has cancelled their DRM plans they've still damaged the relationship with their consumers, and it will take a lot more than backtracking to completely repair it.

Glad to see some understand my viewpoint

But they reversed their stance, they did what the Internet posters wanted! It's not like the system came out and they changed after. They didn't wrong anyone, it never happened.

Just because they changed their mind at the last minute doesn't mean it "never happened." If I recall, you don't want anyone to forget how bad the PS3 launch was.

 

[KingBroly]

Coincidentally, Xbox Live is completely down at the moment.

 

[htz]

Coincidentally, Xbox Live is completely down at the moment.

xbox.com for me also.

 

[twiceborn]

Again, how can you say that? Because your believing 100% a anonymous source.

Please dont state things as facts when clearly they arent, it just makes you look gullible.

The bottom line is, we will never know the truth about it until such a time as Xbox One 2 (or whatever they call it, lol) and it maybe comes again. All the rumor/speculation is just that... rumor/speculation. Of course those who were against it are going to attempt to state it as fact, but it certainly isnt.

I don't know whether that anonymuous source is correct or not. Or if it even is a legit MS employee. What I do know is that what is said by that person sounds alot more realistic than what the xone enthusiast were saying, in that one person buys a game and can share it with 10 other people, as if the publishers and devs preferred this to used games.

 

[DestroVega]

[quote name="aptanor" post="10846722" timestamp="1371752806"]

[quote name="DestroVega" post="10846693" timestamp="1371751959"]

[quote name="highoffcoffee496" post="10846181" timestamp="1371741398"]
[quote name="aptanor" post="10846154" timestamp="1371740699"]
[quote name="DestroVega" post="10846036" timestamp="1371736925"]
[quote name="highoffcoffee496" post="10845924" timestamp="1371732334"]
Why would I feel sorry for boycotting MS? They are still a terrible company who tried to push all these extreme anti-consumer requirements onto us. This boycotting helped lead to these changes we saw yesterday.

I'll admit I have always been a huge PlayStation fan and have never liked MS, but this whole fiasco has made me dislike the company even more. HOWEVER, it's nice to see they did change their policies because it seemed like the PS4 was going to destroy it; I don't want that because competition is good for the industry.

Today, everyone wins. I still have no plans to get an Xbox One and had planned to never get one. But now it's nice to know I will pick one up eventually when they are $200 or less. There are some games I'm interested in (Quantum Break) but I can't support a company anytime soon who tried pulling this kind of stunt. They need to earn my trust back.
[/quote]
LOL

They need to earn your trust back. What are they, a girlfriend who cheated on you? Get a life.

[/quote]
Well that was rude. Consumers and the companies that produce the products they purchase do have a relationship of sorts, and your girlfriend analogy is actually a good one. If a company does something you don't like, lies about their products, or otherwise does something to harm that relationship, like in this case MS DRM, you have every right to "break up" with them. If a company does things that benefit you as the consumer then that strengthens the relationship. Even though MS has cancelled their DRM plans they've still damaged the relationship with their consumers, and it will take a lot more than backtracking to completely repair it.

[/quote]

Glad to see some understand my viewpoint
[/quote]

But they reversed their stance, they did what the Internet posters wanted! It's not like the system came out and they changed after. They didn't wrong anyone, it never happened.
[/quote]
Just because they changed their mind at the last minute doesn't mean it "never happened." If I recall, you don't want anyone to forget how bad the PS3 launch was.[/quote]

All I ever said was PS3 cost $599 at launch and PS4 is $399 and that's confusing to me. I never bashed PS3 or 4.

 

[aptanor]

My bad, I may have been thinking of someone else.

The point remains valid that just because they changed their mind doesn't mean it never happened. I assure you it hasn't changed anything, it's still their overall plan. If not for this gen, then the next.

 

[kcobra22]

Coincidentally, Xbox Live is completely down at the moment.

its back up now

 

[DestroVega]

My bad, I may have been thinking of someone else.

The point remains valid that just because they changed their mind doesn't mean it never happened. I assure you it hasn't changed anything, it's still their overall plan. If not for this gen, then the next.

Which is all fine and well. I'm pissed that i liked the original Xbox One and because people voiced opinions, people who now STILL aren't going to buy the system anyway, it's changed. And I'm sorry if that pisses me off. I would understand if now all of a sudden a mass wave of people had their decision swayed, but it doesn't seem that way in any forum.

I wish people who had no intention of buying it at all had just kept their mouth shut (cause they weren't going to buy it either way) or Microsoft had the balls to stick it out.

I obviously have an unpopular view but that's just how I feel.

 

[Hodaka]

My bad, I may have been thinking of someone else.

The point remains valid that just because they changed their mind doesn't mean it never happened. I assure you it hasn't changed anything, it's still their overall plan. If not for this gen, then the next.

Which is all fine and well. I'm pissed that i liked the original Xbox One and because people voiced opinions, people who now STILL aren't going to buy the system anyway, it's changed. And I'm sorry if that pisses me off. I would understand if now all of a sudden a mass wave of people had their decision swayed, but it doesn't seem that way in any forum.

I wish people who had no intention of buying it at all had just kept their mouth shut (cause they weren't going to buy it either way) or Microsoft had the balls to stick it out.

I obviously have an unpopular view but that's just how I feel.

I was planning on the PS4, but there's a good chance that I'll get the Xbox first now. I'll still get both, but have to space out those purchases over time.

 

[highoffcoffee496]

My bad, I may have been thinking of someone else.

The point remains valid that just because they changed their mind doesn't mean it never happened. I assure you it hasn't changed anything, it's still their overall plan. If not for this gen, then the next.

Which is all fine and well. I'm pissed that i liked the original Xbox One and because people voiced opinions, people who now STILL aren't going to buy the system anyway, it's changed. And I'm sorry if that pisses me off. I would understand if now all of a sudden a mass wave of people had their decision swayed, but it doesn't seem that way in any forum.

I wish people who had no intention of buying it at all had just kept their mouth shut (cause they weren't going to buy it either way) or Microsoft had the balls to stick it out.

I obviously have an unpopular view but that's just how I feel.

My personal reason for speaking up (and why I hated the way the system was) is because it was very anti-consumer. I love collecting video games; I have bookcases full of them. I love having friends come over and select a game to borrow. With the way the previous version of xbox one was set up, I wouldn't be able to do that anymore. Furthermore, the disks become worthless (value wise). I didn't want to see the industry turn into this so even though I don't have immediate plans to purchase the system, I felt the need to say something to help prevent some domino effect.

I also hated the 24 hr online requirement. Currently I'm actually away from my home and am completing an internship. As a college student, I don't have the money to afford an apartment so I'm currently staying at my grandparents, with NO reliable internet. I'm here for almost 3 months; how dumb would it have been if I couldn't play the xbox one for all that time. I have my aunts who's only a few blocks away (which I'm using atm to post), but it would have been so annoying to drag it there every 24hrs to check in -_-

 

[twiceborn]

My bad, I may have been thinking of someone else.

The point remains valid that just because they changed their mind doesn't mean it never happened. I assure you it hasn't changed anything, it's still their overall plan. If not for this gen, then the next.

Which is all fine and well. I'm pissed that i liked the original Xbox One and because people voiced opinions, people who now STILL aren't going to buy the system anyway, it's changed. And I'm sorry if that pisses me off. I would understand if now all of a sudden a mass wave of people had their decision swayed, but it doesn't seem that way in any forum.

I wish people who had no intention of buying it at all had just kept their mouth shut (cause they weren't going to buy it either way) or Microsoft had the balls to stick it out.

I obviously have an unpopular view but that's just how I feel.

I was interested in getting an xone, up until the drm scheme was announced. And even though I was always planning on getting a PS4 at launch I was eventulally going to get one after a price drop... or two.

So this reversal has definitely swayed some people into buying one, perhaps not at launch, but sometime down the line.

 

[Ashane]

My bad, I may have been thinking of someone else.

The point remains valid that just because they changed their mind doesn't mean it never happened. I assure you it hasn't changed anything, it's still their overall plan. If not for this gen, then the next.

Which is all fine and well. I'm pissed that i liked the original Xbox One and because people voiced opinions, people who now STILL aren't going to buy the system anyway, it's changed. And I'm sorry if that pisses me off. I would understand if now all of a sudden a mass wave of people had their decision swayed, but it doesn't seem that way in any forum.

I wish people who had no intention of buying it at all had just kept their mouth shut (cause they weren't going to buy it either way) or Microsoft had the balls to stick it out.

I obviously have an unpopular view but that's just how I feel.

My personal reason for speaking up (and why I hated the way the system was) is because it was very anti-consumer. I love collecting video games; I have bookcases full of them. I love having friends come over and select a game to borrow. With the way the previous version of xbox one was set up, I wouldn't be able to do that anymore. Furthermore, the disks become worthless (value wise). I didn't want to see the industry turn into this so even I don't have immediate plans to purchase the system regardless I felt the need to say something to help prevent some domino effect.

I also hated the 24 hr online requirement. Currently I'm actually away from my home and am completing an internship. As a college student, I don't have the money to afford an apartment so I'm currently staying at my grandparents, with NO reliable internet. I'm here for almost 3 months; how dumb would it have been if I couldn't play the xbox one for all that time. I have my aunts who's only a few blocks away (which I'm using atm to post), but it would have been so annoying to drag it there every 24hrs to check in -_-

Didn't you have the option to buy a PS4 and actually show the industry which way you wanted it to go with what matter's most.. your money?

I dont think MS's change was based on preorder numbers. Not when you look at the data. Gamestop completely sold out of their allotment. Amazon it's #1. Microsoft Store has gotten more allocation at least 4 times since the announcement of the console.

Therefor, the decision was likely made because investors/shareholders were getting nervous with the bad press the system was getting.

It just strikes me as odd when gamer's had a choice for two completely different systems. The only reason you would moan about it *now*, is if you wanted to buy a Xbox One and wanted it changed. Otherwise, it would be far more effective to show your support of DRM or No DRM with your money, what really matters.

There can be no clearer message for no DRM then a console releasing and selling 20-30% of what your opponent did.

 

[SaraAB]

My bad, I may have been thinking of someone else.

The point remains valid that just because they changed their mind doesn't mean it never happened. I assure you it hasn't changed anything, it's still their overall plan. If not for this gen, then the next.

Which is all fine and well. I'm pissed that i liked the original Xbox One and because people voiced opinions, people who now STILL aren't going to buy the system anyway, it's changed. And I'm sorry if that pisses me off. I would understand if now all of a sudden a mass wave of people had their decision swayed, but it doesn't seem that way in any forum.

I wish people who had no intention of buying it at all had just kept their mouth shut (cause they weren't going to buy it either way) or Microsoft had the balls to stick it out.

I obviously have an unpopular view but that's just how I feel.


My personal reason for speaking up (and why I hated the way the system was) is because it was very anti-consumer. I love collecting video games; I have bookcases full of them. I love having friends come over and select a game to borrow. With the way the previous version of xbox one was set up, I wouldn't be able to do that anymore. Furthermore, the disks become worthless (value wise). I didn't want to see the industry turn into this so even I don't have immediate plans to purchase the system regardless I felt the need to say something to help prevent some domino effect.

I also hated the 24 hr online requirement. Currently I'm actually away from my home and am completing an internship. As a college student, I don't have the money to afford an apartment so I'm currently staying at my grandparents, with NO reliable internet. I'm here for almost 3 months; how dumb would it have been if I couldn't play the xbox one for all that time. I have my aunts who's only a few blocks away (which I'm using atm to post), but it would have been so annoying to drag it there every 24hrs to check in -_-

This is exactly the reason why I am speaking up, if everything goes digital this hobby is basically dead for me since I enjoy collecting and playing games with collecting being a big part of it.

I still feel like the PS4 would be of more benefit to me since I like JRPG's and I would like to access apps and the web browser without those things being behind a Paywall. I don't even know why I ever bought a 360 in the first place as I refuse to pay for Xbox live gold since I rarely play MP and don't really use the apps but there might be 1-2 I want to use but I am not paying for that. PS plus also seems to offer more value with the free games, if you pay $50 every year you really never should have to buy another game.

A question not asked, is PS home coming back on the PS4??

 

[DestroVega]

My bad, I may have been thinking of someone else.

The point remains valid that just because they changed their mind doesn't mean it never happened. I assure you it hasn't changed anything, it's still their overall plan. If not for this gen, then the next.

Which is all fine and well. I'm pissed that i liked the original Xbox One and because people voiced opinions, people who now STILL aren't going to buy the system anyway, it's changed. And I'm sorry if that pisses me off. I would understand if now all of a sudden a mass wave of people had their decision swayed, but it doesn't seem that way in any forum.

I wish people who had no intention of buying it at all had just kept their mouth shut (cause they weren't going to buy it either way) or Microsoft had the balls to stick it out.

I obviously have an unpopular view but that's just how I feel.

My personal reason for speaking up (and why I hated the way the system was) is because it was very anti-consumer. I love collecting video games; I have bookcases full of them. I love having friends come over and select a game to borrow. With the way the previous version of xbox one was set up, I wouldn't be able to do that anymore. Furthermore, the disks become worthless (value wise). I didn't want to see the industry turn into this so even I don't have immediate plans to purchase the system regardless I felt the need to say something to help prevent some domino effect.

I also hated the 24 hr online requirement. Currently I'm actually away from my home and am completing an internship. As a college student, I don't have the money to afford an apartment so I'm currently staying at my grandparents, with NO reliable internet. I'm here for almost 3 months; how dumb would it have been if I couldn't play the xbox one for all that time. I have my aunts who's only a few blocks away (which I'm using atm to post), but it would have been so annoying to drag it there every 24hrs to check in -_-

Didn't you have the option to buy a PS4 and actually show the industry which way you wanted it to go with what matter's most.. your money?

I dont think MS's change was based on preorder numbers. Not when you look at the data. Gamestop completely sold out of their allotment. Amazon it's #1. Microsoft Store has gotten more allocation at least 4 times since the announcement of the console.

Therefor, the decision was likely made because investors/shareholders were getting nervous with the bad press the system was getting.

It just strikes me as odd when gamer's had a choice for two completely different systems. The only reason you would moan about it *now*, is if you wanted to buy a Xbox One and wanted it changed. Otherwise, it would be far more effective to show your support of DRM or No DRM with your money, what really matters.

There can be no clearer message for no DRM then a console releasing and selling 20-30% of what your opponent did.

I read someone who said they were surprised Microsoft reversed their stance because he "knew preorder numbers were 'brisk'"

Sounded like he had actual info.

 

[brandtron8000]

Also, saw this on Reddit....interesting read:
http://pastebin.com/uCmdh9jB

Thanks for that pastebin link, real interesting. Can't wait to see how things play out.

Loved that link. Great info in there. I'm excited!

No, but an anonymous poster claiming to be part of Microsoft is not proof

But it's the Internet! It has to be true or you can't post it! :lol:

 

[htz]

Didn't you have the option to buy a PS4 and actually show the industry which way you wanted it to go with what matter's most.. your money?

I dont think MS's change was based on preorder numbers. Not when you look at the data. Gamestop completely sold out of their allotment. Amazon it's #1. Microsoft Store has gotten more allocation at least 4 times since the announcement of the console.

Therefor, the decision was likely made because investors/shareholders were getting nervous with the bad press the system was getting.

It just strikes me as odd when gamer's had a choice for two completely different systems. The only reason you would moan about it *now*, is if you wanted to buy a Xbox One and wanted it changed. Otherwise, it would be far more effective to show your support of DRM or No DRM with your money, what really matters.

There can be no clearer message for no DRM then a console releasing and selling 20-30% of what your opponent did.

Not everyone ragging on the xbox one's drm policy were ps3 fanboys. A good chunk of us would like to play xbox one exclusive titles or own an xbox 360 currently. The only thing preventing that was the 24 hour check in and used game restrictions. Your statement would had been true if everyone was a ps3 fanboy, cause it wouldn't matter if the xbox one removed the drm/used game restrictions for them.

The allotment rumored that gamestop sold out of, were minimal compared to the amount of PS4 pre-orders that they took in. Amazon numbers are now skewed cause PS4 has multiple bundles splitting off the rankings. Numbers don't lie, Microsoft saw the pre-order numbers, and made predictions on what would happen if this continues. Most likely something that they are not willing to take a risk on. If they weren't scared of trying and failing, they would had proceeded.

 

[bunck]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbAefjzovJg

lol, Francis nailed it. "It's not all party hats and handjobs over here, we will always remember you as the company that tried to us over" hahaha

"They remember." - Robert Muldoon 1945-1993

 

[Blaster man]

My bad, I may have been thinking of someone else.
The point remains valid that just because they changed their mind doesn't mean it never happened. I assure you it hasn't changed anything, it's still their overall plan. If not for this gen, then the next.

Which is all fine and well. I'm pissed that i liked the original Xbox One and because people voiced opinions, people who now STILL aren't going to buy the system anyway, it's changed. And I'm sorry if that pisses me off. I would understand if now all of a sudden a mass wave of people had their decision swayed, but it doesn't seem that way in any forum.
I wish people who had no intention of buying it at all had just kept their mouth shut (cause they weren't going to buy it either way) or Microsoft had the balls to stick it out.
I obviously have an unpopular view but that's just how I feel.

My personal reason for speaking up (and why I hated the way the system was) is because it was very anti-consumer. I love collecting video games; I have bookcases full of them. I love having friends come over and select a game to borrow. With the way the previous version of xbox one was set up, I wouldn't be able to do that anymore. Furthermore, the disks become worthless (value wise). I didn't want to see the industry turn into this so even I don't have immediate plans to purchase the system regardless I felt the need to say something to help prevent some domino effect.
I also hated the 24 hr online requirement. Currently I'm actually away from my home and am completing an internship. As a college student, I don't have the money to afford an apartment so I'm currently staying at my grandparents, with NO reliable internet. I'm here for almost 3 months; how dumb would it have been if I couldn't play the xbox one for all that time. I have my aunts who's only a few blocks away (which I'm using atm to post), but it would have been so annoying to drag it there every 24hrs to check in -_-

Didn't you have the option to buy a PS4 and actually show the industry which way you wanted it to go with what matter's most.. your money?
I dont think MS's change was based on preorder numbers. Not when you look at the data. Gamestop completely sold out of their allotment. Amazon it's #1. Microsoft Store has gotten more allocation at least 4 times since the announcement of the console.
Therefor, the decision was likely made because investors/shareholders were getting nervous with the bad press the system was getting.
It just strikes me as odd when gamer's had a choice for two completely different systems. The only reason you would moan about it *now*, is if you wanted to buy a Xbox One and wanted it changed. Otherwise, it would be far more effective to show your support of DRM or No DRM with your money, what really matters.
There can be no clearer message for no DRM then a console releasing and selling 20-30% of what your opponent did.

I read someone who said they were surprised Microsoft reversed their stance because he "knew preorder numbers were 'brisk'"
Sounded like he had actual info.

I'm sure the execs of the company, who are responsible to shareholder (the owners) knew more. If they believed this DRM scheme would have brought in more revenue than the old way it wouldn't have changed.

 

[Ashane]

Didn't you have the option to buy a PS4 and actually show the industry which way you wanted it to go with what matter's most.. your money?

I dont think MS's change was based on preorder numbers. Not when you look at the data. Gamestop completely sold out of their allotment. Amazon it's #1. Microsoft Store has gotten more allocation at least 4 times since the announcement of the console.

Therefor, the decision was likely made because investors/shareholders were getting nervous with the bad press the system was getting.

It just strikes me as odd when gamer's had a choice for two completely different systems. The only reason you would moan about it *now*, is if you wanted to buy a Xbox One and wanted it changed. Otherwise, it would be far more effective to show your support of DRM or No DRM with your money, what really matters.

There can be no clearer message for no DRM then a console releasing and selling 20-30% of what your opponent did.

Not everyone ragging on the xbox one's drm policy were ps3 fanboys. A good chunk of us would like to play xbox one exclusive titles or own an xbox 360 currently. The only thing preventing that was the 24 hour check in and used game restrictions. Your statement would had been true if everyone was a ps3 fanboy, cause it wouldn't matter if the xbox one removed the drm/used game restrictions for them.

The allotment rumored that gamestop sold out of, were minimal compared to the amount of PS4 pre-orders that they took in. Amazon numbers are now skewed cause PS4 has multiple bundles splitting off the rankings.

If that was the case, you would see more CAG's saying they are getting a X1. Yet you dont. So the theory that the only thing preventing people from ordering a X1 was 24 hour checks and used game restrictions is flawed. You've seen maybe 3 people in the preorder thread say they are getting one now, and alot of people here saying they may get it at a later date once it goes down to $200-300.

My statement has more to back it up then just CAG however. Polls are already being conducted as I said earlier on Reddit and GMG, both of which show little to no gain in traction from the announcement. Further proof that no matter what MS said, it woudnt have mattered... the people bitching were never going to buy a X1 anyway.

As to Gamestop, that dosent really matter does it? If you sell out of all your units, your sold out. That's a success for the company, not a negative. You can only sell what you have, and it's been rumored for awhile that the X1 has yield problems. The statement was made only to support the fact that the X1 was doing perfectly fine in the preorder market, which it was. (Amazon is also a bit of a eh who knows.. because without actual numbers, #1 could be leading by 1... or by 100,000. You have absolutely no clue)

 

[htz]

If that was the case, you would see more CAG's saying they are getting a X1. Yet you dont. So the theory that the only thing preventing people from ordering a X1 was 24 hour checks and used game restrictions is flawed. You've seen maybe 3 people in the preorder thread say they are getting one now, and alot of people here saying they may get it at a later date once it goes down to $200-300.

My statement has more to back it up then just CAG however. Polls are already being conducted as I said earlier on Reddit and GMG, both of which show little to no gain in traction from the announcement. Further proof that no matter what MS said, it woudnt have mattered... the people bitching were never going to buy a X1 anyway.

As to Gamestop, that dosent really matter does it? If you sell out of all your units, your sold out. That's a success for the company, not a negative. You can only sell what you have, and it's been rumored for awhile that the X1 has yield problems. The statement was made only to support the fact that the X1 was doing perfectly fine in the preorder market, which it was. (Amazon is also a bit of a eh who knows.. because without actual numbers, #1 could be leading by 1... or by 100,000. You have absolutely no clue)

Maybe cause the whole "Microsoft tried to screw us" is still fresh in people's mind right now. Give it time, some new games, and people will most likely at least give it a "consideration", where as before it was a "hell no". I think it does matter cause like you said without actual numbers we can't tell how many they sold 1 or 100,000 which applies to both GameStop and Amazon.

 

[TooPoor]

"Cloud Processing" was a buzzword MS used to stir up some positive conversation, the idea isn't really fleshed out. Quite frankly, the online speeds most people have I don't think are really prepared to do anything meaningful in "the cloud." Correct me if I'm wrong, but whatever "the cloud" is doing could have just as easily been done by using some of that ram (or faster ram, or more ram) for something other than 3 operating systems.

It's not a buzzword, the cloud is something that has been gaining popularity in the tech sphere. Many major corporations have made a switch to the cloud for their server infrastructure.

It is a buzzword. Major corporations made the switch to cloud for many hosting based applications, not for computing tasks. These workloads and their treatment is drastically different. Also, some corporations do this because they do not possess the physical compute resources.

I lead a cloud research group, and have done many prototype developments on the Windows Azure and Amazon EC2. I can tell you with confidence that cloud is no where near reliable deployment for gaming (at least for another year), where the typical maximum allowed latency is half a second. I will just display three examples that we observed:

(1) The performance variability of VMs hosted on the server farms can be as high as 300%, which means, a rendering task may take 1 second, or 3 seconds, depending on the congestion of the cloud.

(2) 20% of the submitted compute tasks failed because of VM instability, while acceptable for static data analysis, it would not be for gaming.

(3) Workload scheduling, balancing, efficient VM consolidation become near impossible for large amounts of dynamic workload, which isn't a problem for hosting services, but a problem for gaming.

aptanor is right, at the current stage, with that much power inside the console, it makes no sense to upload partial compute tasks to the cloud. This notion has only taken off, academically, in the mobile cloud field, where local computation is too power hungry for battery operated devices.

 

[4thHorseman]

"Cloud Processing" was a buzzword MS used to stir up some positive conversation, the idea isn't really fleshed out. Quite frankly, the online speeds most people have I don't think are really prepared to do anything meaningful in "the cloud." Correct me if I'm wrong, but whatever "the cloud" is doing could have just as easily been done by using some of that ram (or faster ram, or more ram) for something other than 3 operating systems.

It's not a buzzword, the cloud is something that has been gaining popularity in the tech sphere. Many major corporations have made a switch to the cloud for their server infrastructure.

It is a buzzword. Major corporations made the switch to cloud for many hosting based applications, not for computing tasks. These workloads and their treatment is drastically different. Also, some corporations do this because they do not possess the physical compute resources.

I lead a cloud research group, and have done many prototype developments on the Windows Azure and Amazon EC2. I can tell you with confidence that cloud is no where near reliable deployment for gaming (at least for another year), where the typical maximum allowed latency is half a second. I will just display three examples that we observed:

(1) The performance variability of VMs hosted on the server farms can be as high as 300%, which means, a rendering task may take 1 second, or 3 seconds, depending on the congestion of the cloud.

(2) 20% of the submitted compute tasks failed because of VM instability, while acceptable for static data analysis, it would not be for gaming.

(3) Workload scheduling, balancing, efficient VM consolidation become near impossible for large amounts of dynamic workload, which isn't a problem for hosting services, but a problem for gaming.

aptanor is right, at the current stage, with that much power inside the console, it makes no sense to upload partial compute tasks to the cloud. This notion has only taken off, academically, in the mobile cloud field, where local computation is too power hungry for battery operated devices.

Thanks for the info! This seems to match up with what the developers were saying such as Respawn using the Cloud for matchmaking purposes and the Battlefield director saying they need AI reaction to be instantaneous and not even a one second delay.

 

[lmz00]

This reminds me of people complaining about the original Xbox being broadband only, charging an annual fee for Xbox Live, including a headset with every Xbox 360, etc.

People disgust me sometimes. :\

 

[Monsta Mack]

This reminds me of people complaining about the original Xbox being broadband only, charging an annual fee for Xbox Live, including a headset with every Xbox 360, etc.

People disgust me sometimes. :\

Sadly the XB1 isn't coming with a headset, but the irony of PS4 charging for online and very little complaining makes me laugh. A lot.

As I've said a million times, very little disvantages for the XB1 now

- Dat $100 price difference

- The Kinect is still spying on you... so get your lazy ass to unplug the system

- It's not as powerful as PS4. Oh Noez! The X360 wasn't as powerful as the PS3 either because of "The Cell!"

Also as far as pre-orders go..

Wait...

WAIT FOR IT!

Wait a few weeks.

 

[Mako1215]

Awesome. I'm going to need to buy a headset for my XB1 whenever I buy one.

Going to have to replace that shit-tastic PS4 headset.

 

[aptanor]

This reminds me of people complaining about the original Xbox being broadband only, charging an annual fee for Xbox Live, including a headset with every Xbox 360, etc.

People disgust me sometimes. :\

Why did people complain about the 360 coming with a headset?

Also, I'd rather not have to pay for online on the PS4 but I can see the necessity. Plus, since they're doing it through PS+ we'll be getting a lot of freebies and extras. There's additional value as oppose to Live, which really doesn't have much in the way of sales, freebies, bonuses, etc.

 

[lmz00]

Some dumb shit like it added to the cost of the console.

And I just assumed that the new Kinect would take the piace of the headset.

 

[Ashane]

This reminds me of people complaining about the original Xbox being broadband only, charging an annual fee for Xbox Live, including a headset with every Xbox 360, etc.

People disgust me sometimes. :\

Why did people complain about the 360 coming with a headset?

Also, I'd rather not have to pay for online on the PS4 but I can see the necessity. Plus, since they're doing it through PS+ we'll be getting a lot of freebies and extras. There's additional value as oppose to Live, which really doesn't have much in the way of sales, freebies, bonuses, etc.

I woudnt expect major games on PS+ however.

So far, they've said it's one game per month, the first of which is a limited version of Drive Club. They've also said Don't Starve, Outlast, The Secret Poncho's will be coming... so there's 4 months of crap to be honest. (I listed DC as crap because I'd assume the vast majority of people will be buying it if they are into racing games, just like Forza for X1)

 

[Erad30]

This reminds me of people complaining about the original Xbox being broadband only, charging an annual fee for Xbox Live, including a headset with every Xbox 360, etc.

People disgust me sometimes. :\

Sadly the XB1 isn't coming with a headset, but the irony of PS4 charging for online and very little complaining makes me laugh. A lot.

As I've said a million times, very little disvantages for the XB1 now

- Dat $100 price difference

- The Kinect is still spying on you... so get your lazy ass to unplug the system

- It's not as powerful as PS4. Oh Noez! The X360 wasn't as powerful as the PS3 either because of "The Cell!"

Also as far as pre-orders go..

Wait...

WAIT FOR IT!

Wait a few weeks.

That $100 price difference is going to make a huge difference to anyone who has no loyalty to a particular console and they play at least 95% of the same games.

 

[dmaul1114]

Maybe cause the whole "Microsoft tried to screw us" is still fresh in people's mind right now. Give it time, some new games, and people will most likely at least give it a "consideration", where as before it was a "hell no". I think it does matter cause like you said without actual numbers we can't tell how many they sold 1 or 100,000 which applies to both GameStop and Amazon.

Yep. And other factor is a lot of people already made up their mind to pre-order the PS4 first and get it first and are just sticking with that. But many are probably more likely to pick up an X1 down the road now.

For me, the issue was their were multiple reasons why I decided to go with the PS4 instead of the X1 despite the 360 being my primary console this generation. In a rough order of importance:

1. Kinect packed in, and thus will get shoe horned into games. I hate motion control stuff, and don't care for vocal commands etc. If that stuff becomes the norm in games I'd quit gaming.

2. The DRM. That one's moot now, but previously not being able to sell my games as I see fit was a big deal as I sell every game once I'm done playing it.

3. $500. Just too much. $400 for a PS4 is really pushing it for me as is. Most I've ever paid for a console was $400 for a 360 in 2007, and that was a Fry's bundle that included 5 newer games (Bioshock, Forza and some others).

4. Their focus to casuals/dude bro gamers. The TV stuff didn't interest me much once I learned more about it, and they seem focused on the CoD/Madden type gamers and I'm not into that stuff that much these days. I enjoy Halo and Gears, but both series are pretty long in the tooth. Sony did a better job, for my tastes, with new IPs as exclusives this gen with Uncharted, Infamous, Last of Us etc. and I'm hoping that will continue next gen. The better indie support should mean more variety in cheap downloadable games too.

So with the DRM gone, I'm MUCH more likely to get an X1 down the road if I end up gaming more and can justify a second console, where as with the DRM in place I'd never consider one no matter what. But the other blocks for me are still there, so I'll stick with the PS4 as the first next gen console I get. I'm debating on whether to keep the preorder now that I don't have the "vote with my wallet to send a point" motivation. Will depend on how many launch titles I want to play.

Aside from all that, I'm glad I and others bitched, tweeted etc. as this wasn't just about getting MS to change the X1 polices. It was about sending a message that restrictive DRM on disc games isn't acceptable and keep the industry from going that route as a whole--which would likely have happened if there hadn't been such a blow back at the rumors and then actual announcement of it it as Sony would have likely done the same thing.

Now they know that won't fly and will have to be more thoughtful and give consumers incentives to go digital and buy games they can't sell/trade/lend/rent in the same ways they can disc games, rather than just trying to force it down our throats at the same prices as current disc games.

 

[RiPPn]

What's funny is people are finally starting to come out and say that Sony was actually on board with the entire idea.... until they saw the backlash MS got.

I wonder what would have happened if the conference dates had been reversed.

So let's not white knight Sony please. They saw a clear opportunity to stick it to Microsoft and attempt to gain more market share, and they took it. It had absolutely nothing to do with you, the consumers.

So we are supposed to hold Sony accountable for something they didn't do, and we are supposed to forgive Microsoft for something they did do? Is that how this works?

 

[Erad30]

Fez 2 – Polytron has no plans to release it on Microsoft consoles
Phil Fish has said there are no plans to bring Fez 2 to Xbox One or Xbox 360.

Speaking with Polygon, when asked which platforms the indie sequel would be released on he replied: “not Xbox.”

Fish has spoken previously about the difficulties and expense in patching Fez on XBL Arcade, stating that had the game been released on PC, the game would have “been fixed two weeks after release, at no cost to us.”

The inability to self-publish on Microsoft consoles is also a problem for Polytron, he said.

“With Microsoft they’ve made it painfully clear they don’t want my ilk on their platform,” he said. “I can’t even self-publish there. Whereas on PS4, I can. It’s that simple. Microsoft won’t let me develop for their console. But Sony will.”

As far as creating a sequel as opposed to something new entire, this is what Fish had to say on going with Fez 2.

“It is an entirely new game. FEZ 2 is to FEZ 1 what Zelda 2 was to Zelda 1, but more different,” he said. “The biggest reason is that I just wanted to go back to that world. I want to expand on my little world and its mythology. It’s not a case of wanting to recycle ideas we didn’t get to put in FEZ 1.

“Since the games are going to be so different, there’s not a whole lot that could just carry over.”

 

[4thHorseman]

This reminds me of people complaining about the original Xbox being broadband only, charging an annual fee for Xbox Live, including a headset with every Xbox 360, etc.

People disgust me sometimes. :\

Sadly the XB1 isn't coming with a headset, but the irony of PS4 charging for online and very little complaining makes me laugh. A lot.

As I've said a million times, very little disvantages for the XB1 now

- Dat $100 price difference

- The Kinect is still spying on you... so get your lazy ass to unplug the system

- It's not as powerful as PS4. Oh Noez! The X360 wasn't as powerful as the PS3 either because of "The Cell!"

Also as far as pre-orders go..

Wait...

WAIT FOR IT!

Wait a few weeks.

-Better indie support

-$10 cheaper with PS+ (which is better value also than Live) per year

-Gaikai

-Able to switch out HD's

-More first party games (and also more that I care about)

-More free 2 play games at launch

-Don't need PS+ to access stuff like Netflix

-Controller that many reviewers seem to be leaning towards

I guess Microsoft has some cool media features with Kinect (which according to reviewers isn't as good as their demo made it out to be), and the magical cloud (which isn't as magical as Microsoft makes it out to be).

 

[aptanor]

This reminds me of people complaining about the original Xbox being broadband only, charging an annual fee for Xbox Live, including a headset with every Xbox 360, etc.

People disgust me sometimes. :\

Why did people complain about the 360 coming with a headset?

Also, I'd rather not have to pay for online on the PS4 but I can see the necessity. Plus, since they're doing it through PS+ we'll be getting a lot of freebies and extras. There's additional value as oppose to Live, which really doesn't have much in the way of sales, freebies, bonuses, etc.

I woudnt expect major games on PS+ however.

So far, they've said it's one game per month, the first of which is a limited version of Drive Club. They've also said Don't Starve, Outlast, The Secret Poncho's will be coming... so there's 4 months of crap to be honest. (I listed DC as crap because I'd assume the vast majority of people will be buying it if they are into racing games, just like Forza for X1)

We don't know what we'll have yet. I got a free month from the PS Home E3 thing, and so far in the pas 2 weeks I've gotten XCom, Saints Row 3, Gods Eater Burst (Vita), Gravity Rush (Vita), and Walking Dead season pass for $5. Pretty damn good for what would have been less than $5 if it wasn't free. My point is PS+ has a great track record.

 

[lmz00]

This reminds me of people complaining about the original Xbox being broadband only, charging an annual fee for Xbox Live, including a headset with every Xbox 360, etc.

People disgust me sometimes. :\

Sadly the XB1 isn't coming with a headset, but the irony of PS4 charging for online and very little complaining makes me laugh. A lot.

As I've said a million times, very little disvantages for the XB1 now

- Dat $100 price difference

- The Kinect is still spying on you... so get your lazy ass to unplug the system

- It's not as powerful as PS4. Oh Noez! The X360 wasn't as powerful as the PS3 either because of "The Cell!"

Also as far as pre-orders go..

Wait...

WAIT FOR IT!

Wait a few weeks.

That $100 price difference is going to make a huge difference to anyone who has no loyalty to a particular console and they play at least 95% of the same games.

Let those people get the PS4, and those who prefer the "Xbox experience" can go with the Xbox One. Think iPhone and Android.

(Not that I have anything against the PS4. I've got both consoles preordered, and I've also had the Wii U since launch.)

Also, the Xbox 360 has a free game promo now. Don't you lose access to the free PS+ games if you stop subscribing?

 

[Erad30]

Just guessing by track record so far, you'd probably get games like Killzone & Infamous less then a year after release.

This reminds me of people complaining about the original Xbox being broadband only, charging an annual fee for Xbox Live, including a headset with every Xbox 360, etc.

People disgust me sometimes. :\

Sadly the XB1 isn't coming with a headset, but the irony of PS4 charging for online and very little complaining makes me laugh. A lot.

As I've said a million times, very little disvantages for the XB1 now

- Dat $100 price difference

- The Kinect is still spying on you... so get your lazy ass to unplug the system

- It's not as powerful as PS4. Oh Noez! The X360 wasn't as powerful as the PS3 either because of "The Cell!"

Also as far as pre-orders go..

Wait...

WAIT FOR IT!

Wait a few weeks.

That $100 price difference is going to make a huge difference to anyone who has no loyalty to a particular console and they play at least 95% of the same games.

Let those people get the PS4, and those who prefer the "Xbox experience" can go with the Xbox One. Think iPhone and Android.

(Not that I have anything against the PS4. I've got both consoles preordered, and I've also had the Wii U since launch.)

Also, the Xbox 360 has a free game promo now. Don't you lose access to the free PS+ games if you stop subscribing?

Yo do realize the whole point of both consoles is to GROW their market. If their customer base doesn't grow, the system will be seen as a flop, especially if only the hardcore fanboys get it.

 

[WV Matsui]

This reminds me of people complaining about the original Xbox being broadband only, charging an annual fee for Xbox Live, including a headset with every Xbox 360, etc.

People disgust me sometimes. :\

Sadly the XB1 isn't coming with a headset, but the irony of PS4 charging for online and very little complaining makes me laugh. A lot.

As I've said a million times, very little disvantages for the XB1 now
- Dat $100 price difference
- The Kinect is still spying on you... so get your lazy ass to unplug the system
- It's not as powerful as PS4. Oh Noez! The X360 wasn't as powerful as the PS3 either because of "The Cell!"

Also as far as pre-orders go..

Wait...

WAIT FOR IT!

Wait a few weeks.

That $100 price difference is going to make a huge difference to anyone who has no loyalty to a particular console and they play at least 95% of the same games.

Let those people get the PS4, and those who prefer the "Xbox experience" can go with the Xbox One. Think iPhone and Android.

(Not that I have anything against the PS4. I've got both consoles preordered, and I've also had the Wii U since launch.)

Also, the Xbox 360 has a free game promo now. Don't you lose access to the free PS+ games if you stop subscribing?

The X1 comes with a headset like the one that the 360 came with...the PS4 comes with a 2002 cellphone earpiece.

 

[4thHorseman]

Let those people get the PS4, and those who prefer the "Xbox experience" can go with the Xbox One. Think iPhone and Android.

(Not that I have anything against the PS4. I've got both consoles preordered, and I've also had the Wii U since launch.)

Also, the Xbox 360 has a free game promo now. Don't you lose access to the free PS+ games if you stop subscribing?

Yep.

 

[Jesse757x]

I wasn't planning on buying an xb1 but I'm sort of disappointed that Microsoft changed their policy. I was excited to see how the new features would operate. I don't agree with the mandatory kinect though. I think Microsoft did a poor job at educating consumers about the beneficial features in an understandable way.  It seems like both of these next gen consoles are just ps3 and xbox 360 1.5

 

[htz]

Also, the Xbox 360 has a free game promo now. Don't you lose access to the free PS+ games if you stop subscribing?

The offer is not permanent, it will only last until November when the Xbox One launches.

Existing Xbox Live Gold members will begin receiving two free games per month until the launch of the Xbox One in November. The first two games will be Halo 3 and Assassin's Creed II. Fable III was already made free to Gold subscribers earlier today.

http://kotaku.com/existing-xbox-live-gold-members-will-begin-receiving-tw-512305727

 

[pitfallharry219]

It's hard to compare getting fairly recent games from PS+ to getting a couple 5 year old games from Xbox Live Gold. I mean, anything free is good, but come on.

 

[htz]

The X1 comes with a headset like the one that the 360 came with...the PS4 comes with a 2002 cellphone earpiece.

Where do you see this (headset included with xbox one)?

 

[KrebStar]

This reminds me of people complaining about the original Xbox being broadband only, charging an annual fee for Xbox Live, including a headset with every Xbox 360, etc.

People disgust me sometimes. :\

Sadly the XB1 isn't coming with a headset, but the irony of PS4 charging for online and very little complaining makes me laugh. A lot.

As I've said a million times, very little disvantages for the XB1 now

- Dat $100 price difference

- The Kinect is still spying on you... so get your lazy ass to unplug the system

- It's not as powerful as PS4. Oh Noez! The X360 wasn't as powerful as the PS3 either because of "The Cell!"

Also as far as pre-orders go..

Wait...

WAIT FOR IT!

Wait a few weeks.

There are a number of reasons that people aren't complaining as much about the new online fees for PS4.

• PS+ has offered such a great value so far that it dulls the pain of paying that fee. Sure you're paying for online, but you also get a decent amount of games to go with it. For a lot of people, that's just the extra step they need to make it OK.
• Sony has been pretty active about addressing some of the biggest complaints people have with XBL Gold, such as things like Netflix and Free to Play games being behind the paywall. I would say it would be surprising for MS to not make some changes on this stuff with the next Xbox, but they did just turn around on DRM after defending it to the death following E3, so who knows.
• Some people were easily distracted by the amusing attacks made on Microsoft. A good, old fashioned, console war nostalgia bomb. Watching companies fight is more fun than half of the launch titles for any given console to begin with.

So many people (not referring to you, just in general) are suddenly so damn indignant about others trashing Microsoft, as if the company wasn't about to bend them over just a a week ago. The fact that Microsoft is flipping on the issue so quickly just goes to show that it wasn't as necessary as they claimed it to be, and they really were just trying to brute force the move to digital at the expense of the consumer. People can cry "fanboy" all they want, but it's painfully obvious that the outcry over some of those policies was far more than console war shenanigans. Although, I think it's pretty ridiculous that people think said outcry is the primary reason Microsoft is making these changes. If it weren't for Sony making such a big deal pubclicly about all of this, Microsoft could have swept the issues under the rug and let any remaining anger sort itself out later. Hell, I imagine they still could have done that considering how far off these consoles are.