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Rey Mysterio's wrestling topic


#331 Superstar   CAG Superstar! CAGiversary!   2081 Posts   Joined 14.3 Years Ago  

Superstar

Posted 08 April 2006 - 05:39 AM

If what I'm thinking is true, and Mark Henry wasn't signed to some large contract, he would have been cut years ago and WWE never would have looked back. I do feel he brings the show down, because, imo, he really shouldn't be there. While guys like Stevie Richards stay at home, Mark Henry is on my television screen every night getting a shot at the title he dosen't deserve.

It's not just Taker who wouldn't put him over... Angle wouldn't either, and if Batista didn't get injured I'm sure he wouldn't have put Mark Henry over either. Even IF Taker put Mark Henry over, I don't see how he would have moved the business along, since the fans seem to not care about him at all.

I wouldn't call what Mark Henry does "wrestling", the man only has four moves that he seems to use over and over. Just give it time... Mark Henry will disappear soon for one reason or another, WWE will retool him AGAIN and re debut him in a year to see if he'll finally catch on with the fans.


Stevie Richards couldn't fit in a main event heel slot. They needed someone to take that role. Mark fit it perfectly. The whole idea was for the champion tohave someone to wrestle. What makes more sense, kurt angle vs mark, or kurt angle vs richards? I like Richards, but i'm going with Mark. Mark atleast gets heat. I'm not so sure Richards could, especially after the bwo thing.

Angle puts guys over. Batista puts guys over. I'm not saying put everyone over you wrestle, but atleast someone. I can't think of anyone taker put over, that helped push along a younger guys career. He just doesn't do it. He serves no purpose if he isn't helping the business. Hes turning into another Hogan.

Again, hes not called to be a great technical wrestler. It's not his role. He does what he is supposed to do. I'm sure he could do more, but WWE holds their wrestlers back. He probably will fade away, because guys like Batista will come back, and Kane is supposedly going to smackdown aswell. I'm sure Mark knew it wasn't a long time thing.

#332 Superstar   CAG Superstar! CAGiversary!   2081 Posts   Joined 14.3 Years Ago  

Superstar

Posted 08 April 2006 - 05:41 AM

Basically, you either have it, or you don't. If you have it, 'Taker will put you over; if not, he won't.

Mark Henry most certainly does not have it.



I can't think of anyone Taker has put over in the past few years at all.


----


I'm out for the night. It is nice debating wrestling. I'll be back tomorrow. Night

#333 Roufuss   is now a coupon CAGiversary!   21591 Posts   Joined 15.4 Years Ago  

Posted 08 April 2006 - 05:44 AM

Even more fun facts on Mark Henry:

During his entire 10 year stint with WWE, the man has held ONE title, which is the now defunct WWE European championship... he apparently didn't even get a clean win on that.

During a match at SummerSlam 1999 between D-Lo and Jeff Jarrett for the WWF Intercontinental Championship and WWF European Championship (both held at the time by D-Lo), Henry turned on D-Lo and helped Jarrett win the match and the titles. The next night, Henry was given the European title by Jarrett.



#334 AdamInPlaidum   Wii will rock you. CAGiversary!   3148 Posts   Joined 14.7 Years Ago  

AdamInPlaidum

Posted 08 April 2006 - 05:46 AM

Ironically enough (considering the current discussions going on in this thread), the only good matches I've ever seen involving Mark Henry were his pair of wins over Rey Mysterio. Maybe with Randy gone they should revive that feud while they still have Mark around. It would definitely segue well into the return of Batista, what with him and Mysterio apparently being "best friends", and Mark being the one who took big Dave out.

#335 2Fast   S2000 CAGiversary!   4847 Posts   Joined 13.6 Years Ago  

Posted 08 April 2006 - 05:52 AM

Regarding the Undertaker not putting people over very often in the past few years, there really isn't anyone he could do anything for. The only three that matter -that I can think of at least- are Orton, Batista, and Cena. I will admit that 'Taker should have done the job for Orton at least one more time than he did, however. Although, Bob Orton did almost give 'Taker the hep, and Randy apparently isn't very well-liked by pretty much everyone in the locker room.

#336 AdamInPlaidum   Wii will rock you. CAGiversary!   3148 Posts   Joined 14.7 Years Ago  

AdamInPlaidum

Posted 08 April 2006 - 05:56 AM

Stevie Richards couldn't fit in a main event heel slot. They needed someone to take that role. Mark fit it perfectly. The whole idea was for the champion tohave someone to wrestle. What makes more sense, kurt angle vs mark, or kurt angle vs richards? I like Richards, but i'm going with Mark. Mark atleast gets heat. I'm not so sure Richards could, especially after the bwo thing.

Angle puts guys over. Batista puts guys over. I'm not saying put everyone over you wrestle, but atleast someone. I can't think of anyone taker put over, that helped push along a younger guys career. He just doesn't do it. He serves no purpose if he isn't helping the business. Hes turning into another Hogan.

Again, hes not called to be a great technical wrestler. It's not his role. He does what he is supposed to do. I'm sure he could do more, but WWE holds their wrestlers back. He probably will fade away, because guys like Batista will come back, and Kane is supposedly going to smackdown aswell. I'm sure Mark knew it wasn't a long time thing.


You know, a fella doesn't have to win the match to get put over. Hell, Jeff Hardy's shining moment in WWE was his loss to Undertaker in their Ladder Match on Raw a few years back. I truly believe the problem is the level of talent they trot the Undertaker out to work with. The turds they have him wrestle only look good in 2 minute squashes, so in 14 minute matches with the Undertaker, they only look good if they win.

#337 2Fast   S2000 CAGiversary!   4847 Posts   Joined 13.6 Years Ago  

Posted 08 April 2006 - 06:00 AM

You know, a fella doesn't have to win the match to get put over. Hell, Jeff Hardy's shining moment in WWE was his loss to Undertaker in their Ladder Match on Raw a few years back. I truly believe the problem is the level of talent they trot the Undertaker out to work with. The turds they have him wrestle only look good in 2 minute squashes, so in 14 minute matches with the Undertaker, they only look good if they win.


Can't forget what he did for Mankind in that Hell in a Cell match either.

#338 guyver2077   CAG Original CAGiversary!   16083 Posts   Joined 15.0 Years Ago  

guyver2077

Posted 08 April 2006 - 06:25 AM

awesome... the guy from longest yard rules!!

#339 Zenithian Legend   Banned Banned   13122 Posts   Joined 14.6 Years Ago  

Zenithian Legend

Posted 08 April 2006 - 06:59 AM

Guyver I love your constant enthusiam, and positive remarks regardless of what is going on. The rest of this, it's getting hard to read a lot of comments with all the complaining, and arguing strictly from opinion.

These comments are exceptions of course...

The only reason Rey has the title is because Eddie died, and I hope no one thinks otherwise. Even in the world of kayfabe, I find it hard to believe that Rey could beat either Angle or Orton, especially when you look at who they've beaten and what they've accomplished in their careers. Sure, Rey may be deserving of the title for everything he's done, but it shouldn't have happened. It may not be fair, but that's life. The undeserving guys get the titles while those who are deserving don't, because they don't have "the look".


You make a lot of good points, but one critical mistake; Eddie's death is not the "only" reason, if it was the only reason then Chavo would be the champion on SD. Eddie's death, however, is the "main" reason Rey is champion.

I can't believe ANYONE thinks that breaking the Undertaker's streak, the rub of all rubs, should have gone to Blandy Orton. Personally, with Edge undefeated at Mania as well, I think he should be the one to break the streak, and then pass it on to someone else when he gets ready to retire.


I sure as hell don't think it should've gone to Orton. In fact, I think that it should go to no one. Let Taker leave with that at least.

As for some people saying Taker never put anyone over, ever heard of Mick Foley? The Rock? Stone Cold Steve Austin? Bret Hart? Shawn Michaels?

This, however, does fall into the aforementioned category.

I have seen his WCW matches. I used to watch WCW all the time. Wrestlers in japan are superior. Rey does nothing they don't do easily, and they do a lot more than he does. That could be WWE limiting his moves, but it still holds truth. Rey is nothing special, period. He does medocre cruiserweight style wrestling, and he is horrible on the mic.


Enlighten us then, give us names, matches, youtube links... instead of that "Japanese wrestlers are the greatest wrestlers ever crap" that elitest shit doesn't belong here, take it to gamefaqs.

:wall:

#340 Superstar   CAG Superstar! CAGiversary!   2081 Posts   Joined 14.3 Years Ago  

Superstar

Posted 08 April 2006 - 01:44 PM

Guyver I love your constant enthusiam, and positive remarks regardless of what is going on. The rest of this, it's getting hard to read a lot of comments with all the complaining, and arguing strictly from opinion.

These comments are exceptions of course...



You make a lot of good points, but one critical mistake; Eddie's death is not the "only" reason, if it was the only reason then Chavo would be the champion on SD. Eddie's death, however, is the "main" reason Rey is champion.



I sure as hell don't think it should've gone to Orton. In fact, I think that it should go to no one. Let Taker leave with that at least.

As for some people saying Taker never put anyone over, ever heard of Mick Foley? The Rock? Stone Cold Steve Austin? Bret Hart? Shawn Michaels?

This, however, does fall into the aforementioned category.



Enlighten us then, give us names, matches, youtube links... instead of that "Japanese wrestlers are the greatest wrestlers ever crap" that elitest shit doesn't belong here, take it to gamefaqs.

:wall:


Foley, Rock, Stone cold, Bret, Michaels.. they all didnt need to be put over. They were over. I am talking abount putting younger guys over, and paving a way for their career. What does taker think he will be 85 wrestling and still squashing people?

Yeah, having an opinion is "elitest shit". You can look up japanese wrestling matches if you'd like. I don't get my shit on youtube. I never said they are the "greatest wrestlers ever". I just simply put they put Rey to shame easily.

#341 mykevermin   Queen of Scotland CAGiversary!   37011 Posts   Joined 14.4 Years Ago  

Posted 08 April 2006 - 01:51 PM

Can't forget what he did for Mankind in that Hell in a Cell match either.


Oh horseshit. Taker won the match and hardly took a punch. The dumb-assity of Foley got himself over in the context of that match. By that same logic, Undertaker, Kane, and Mrs. Undertaker sure helped DDP be "made famous," especially in that cage tag team title match they had in 2001. Worse selling than fucking *Kronik*.

Though, come to think of it, Mankind did have a lot of wins over Undertaker prior to HitC, so maybe you're just mixing up things.

#342 xgrimx   Domo CAGiversary!   276 Posts   Joined 14.3 Years Ago  

Posted 08 April 2006 - 03:29 PM

Enlighten us then, give us names, matches, youtube links... instead of that "Japanese wrestlers are the greatest wrestlers ever crap" that elitest shit doesn't belong here, take it to gamefaqs.

:wall:


Since you want enlightened I'll give you one off the top of my head, look up any Dick Togo match.

#343 guyver2077   CAG Original CAGiversary!   16083 Posts   Joined 15.0 Years Ago  

guyver2077

Posted 08 April 2006 - 03:33 PM

well i for one thought taker should have put ddp over when he came to wwe

#344 Superstar   CAG Superstar! CAGiversary!   2081 Posts   Joined 14.3 Years Ago  

Superstar

Posted 08 April 2006 - 04:14 PM

Man. I've been watching IWGP matches with Brock Lesnar on youtube. He has awesome matches over there. I really, really hope he never goes back to the WWE.

#345 Danro   Player 1 CAGiversary!   1476 Posts   Joined 14.6 Years Ago  

Posted 08 April 2006 - 05:26 PM

well i for one thought taker should have put ddp over when he came to wwe


I think DDP had his time in the spotlight. What with all the Karl Malone/Jay Leno/David Arquette time he got.

#346 Superstar   CAG Superstar! CAGiversary!   2081 Posts   Joined 14.3 Years Ago  

Superstar

Posted 08 April 2006 - 05:29 PM

David Arquette winning the WCW world title made the belt lose all credibility to me.

#347 mykevermin   Queen of Scotland CAGiversary!   37011 Posts   Joined 14.4 Years Ago  

Posted 08 April 2006 - 06:13 PM

Since you want enlightened I'll give you one off the top of my head, look up any Dick Togo match.


Of all the flippy lil' Japanese wrestlers, you pick that fat bastard?

You have 4 Tiger Masks, KENTA, all of Toryumon/Dragon's Gate, Minoru Tanaka/HEAT, Jyushin "Thunder" Lyger, Naomichi Marufuji, Jun Akiyama (well, 5 years ago when he was tiny), El Samurai, 3 vastly superior members of Kaientai, The Great Sasuke, and, of course, the greatest (but no longer so small) flippy lil' Japanese wrestler of all time, The Great Muta.

Don't get me wrong, I loves me some puro, but I think that you need to drop the otaku nonsense, develop some 'messican love, and watch yourself some CMLL/AAA Lucha Libre. You ain't seen flippin' lil dudes until you watch those cats. And they have midgets in monkey masks. If you want to argue that Japanese strong style is the best heavyweight wrestling, well, I won't try to disagree with you in the slightest. But to say that their cruiserweight work is the best? That's simply not true.

#348 mykevermin   Queen of Scotland CAGiversary!   37011 Posts   Joined 14.4 Years Ago  

Posted 08 April 2006 - 06:21 PM

http://www.youtube.c...s&search=Search

http://www.youtube.c...s&search=Search
(The second match is Owen Hart versus a maskless Lyger)

http://www.youtube.c...s&search=Search
(Kenta Kobashi versus Big Bossman!?!?)

(HUSTLE history)


(WTF with Naoya Ogawa)

http://www.youtube.c...s&search=Search

Enjoy your afternoon. I'm going to paint.

#349 2Fast   S2000 CAGiversary!   4847 Posts   Joined 13.6 Years Ago  

Posted 08 April 2006 - 07:24 PM

Oh horseshit. Taker won the match and hardly took a punch. The dumb-assity of Foley got himself over in the context of that match. By that same logic, Undertaker, Kane, and Mrs. Undertaker sure helped DDP be "made famous," especially in that cage tag team title match they had in 2001. Worse selling than fucking *Kronik*.

Though, come to think of it, Mankind did have a lot of wins over Undertaker prior to HitC, so maybe you're just mixing up things.


Basically, when you think of Mick Foley, that match is certainly his most memorable. Yeah, sure he lost, sure all the stunts were all his idea, sure some of the things that happened were accidents, but you can't deny that since it was a match of that caliber -with the Undertaker- that it did great things for Foley's career going forward. I seriously doubt Foley would have been tempted to do all of those spots if the match was against Kane or Triple H. Since that match was against the Undertaker, it went made Foley much more credible as a main eventer, and as a memorable wrestler.

#350 Demolition Man   REV-OH-LU-TION! CAGiversary!   14855 Posts   Joined 14.4 Years Ago  

Demolition Man

Posted 09 April 2006 - 12:07 AM

Nobody should ever put Mark Henry over... what a waste he is. He's quite literally the most boring wrestler on the face of the planet. It seems like its almost time for Mark Henry to disappear, and then reappear for his yearly push out of nowhere, in which he won't get over with the fans AGAIN. I bet Vince can't wait for this guy's contract to expire.

I remember one match where he fought three nobodies, and promptly kicked all their asses... where we supposed to be impressed? I remember Chris Masters did the same thing just last week on Raw, beat down a nobody for no reason. What is the point of that? "Oh, wow, look how strong this guy is, wow"... they don't even give you the other guys name.


At least TNA tells you who the person is before Monty Brown squashes them to hell with.... THE PPPOOUUUNNNCCCEEEEEE!!!!!

#351 guyver2077   CAG Original CAGiversary!   16083 Posts   Joined 15.0 Years Ago  

guyver2077

Posted 09 April 2006 - 12:56 AM

I think DDP had his time in the spotlight. What with all the Karl Malone/Jay Leno/David Arquette time he got.


yea but certain wcw wrestlers should of been kept up there main evemt.. ddp and booker t come to mind.. they brought ddp in big with the taker story only to have him lose numerous times to taker.. booker came in strong but they had him lose his wcw title to angle and rock..which made him look weak..

#352 Zenithian Legend   Banned Banned   13122 Posts   Joined 14.6 Years Ago  

Zenithian Legend

Posted 09 April 2006 - 12:59 AM

I think the reason DDP was buried so fast was due to all the injuries he already brought with him, plus his age was a factor too.

#353 Zenithian Legend   Banned Banned   13122 Posts   Joined 14.6 Years Ago  

Zenithian Legend

Posted 09 April 2006 - 01:05 AM

Hmm, seems the KOTR winner has already been determined. So unless things change, consider yourself spoiled:

Spoiler


#354 Genocidal   Summer of Punk CAGiversary!   4845 Posts   Joined 13.6 Years Ago  

Posted 09 April 2006 - 01:33 AM

Good to hear if it's true, he deserves it, as long as they don't let him go south (No, not to TNA) like so many of the other Kings have.

#355 Zenithian Legend   Banned Banned   13122 Posts   Joined 14.6 Years Ago  

Zenithian Legend

Posted 09 April 2006 - 01:45 AM

Here's a list of all the previous kings, who they beat, and the year they won (courtesy of obsessedwithwrestling):

Don Muraco - 1985 King of the Ring - Iron Sheik
Harley Race - 1986 King of the Ring - Pedro Morales
Randy Savage - 1987 King of the Ring - King Kong Bundy
Ted DiBiase - 1988 King of the Ring - Randy Savage
Tito Santana - 1989 King of the Ring - Rick Martel
Bret Hart - 1991 King of the Ring - Irwin R. Shyster
Bret Hart - 1993 King of the Ring - Bam Bam Bigelow
Owen Hart - 1994 King of the Ring - Razor Ramon
Mable - 1995 King of the Ring - Savio Vega
Steve Austin - 1996 King of the Ring - Jake Roberts
Triple H - 1997 King of the Ring - Mankind
Ken Shamrock - 1998 King of the Ring - The Rock
Billy Gunn - 1999 King of the Ring - X-Pac
Kurt Angle - 2000 King of the Ring - Rikishi
Edge - 2001 King of the Ring - Kurt Angle
Brock Lesnar - 2002 King of the Ring - Rob Van Dam


#356 Genocidal   Summer of Punk CAGiversary!   4845 Posts   Joined 13.6 Years Ago  

Posted 09 April 2006 - 02:14 AM

Hm, I guess that Mabel, Shamrock, and Gunn's poor or non-existant WWE careers after their wins led me to believe that more of the KotR winners were somewhat of a joke. I retract my previous statement.

#357 Zenithian Legend   Banned Banned   13122 Posts   Joined 14.6 Years Ago  

Zenithian Legend

Posted 09 April 2006 - 02:34 AM

Hm, I guess that Mabel, Shamrock, and Gunn's poor or non-existant WWE careers after their wins led me to believe that more of the KotR winners were somewhat of a joke. I retract my previous statement.


It's a pretty easy mistake, I mean, go back through the list: Muraco, Race, Savage, Santana and Dibiase are all pretty much retired now, although each enjoyed success both before and after their King of the Ring wins.

We all know about the Harts.

Mable/Vis as we know never quite panned out. There was a rumor that he was supposed to win the WWF title after winning the KotR, imagine if that had happened!

Stone Cold and Triple H both blew up and had crazy success after winning the KotR of course. Kurt Angle pretty much did the same thing, only his timing was a bit off, as he came in towards the end of the attitude era, instead of ushering it in.

Lesnar and Shamrock both received decent pushes after their KotR wins, but Scamrock wanted to go back to UFC, and Lesnar the NFL.

Then the sky is the limit still for Edge.

So, the only guy who really dropped the ball after winning the KotR was that Fuck-up Billy Gunn. Part of that can be blamed on his injury, but in all honesty, the guy had a poor work rate/attitude (getting pissed off after his injury when he was sent to HWA to get back in shape) and he was actually pretty horrible on the stick. I recall many instances in which Gunn would be fumbling over his words if he had more than "two" to speak at a time.

#358 xgrimx   Domo CAGiversary!   276 Posts   Joined 14.3 Years Ago  

Posted 09 April 2006 - 02:42 AM

Of all the flippy lil' Japanese wrestlers, you pick that fat bastard?

You have 4 Tiger Masks, KENTA, all of Toryumon/Dragon's Gate, Minoru Tanaka/HEAT, Jyushin "Thunder" Lyger, Naomichi Marufuji, Jun Akiyama (well, 5 years ago when he was tiny), El Samurai, 3 vastly superior members of Kaientai, The Great Sasuke, and, of course, the greatest (but no longer so small) flippy lil' Japanese wrestler of all time, The Great Muta.

Don't get me wrong, I loves me some puro, but I think that you need to drop the otaku nonsense, develop some 'messican love, and watch yourself some CMLL/AAA Lucha Libre. You ain't seen flippin' lil dudes until you watch those cats. And they have midgets in monkey masks. If you want to argue that Japanese strong style is the best heavyweight wrestling, well, I won't try to disagree with you in the slightest. But to say that their cruiserweight work is the best? That's simply not true.


I never once said anywhere their cruiserweight work was the best, I said they were better than Rey Mysterio, and as far as picking Togo he was just off the top of the head as I just saw him wrestle against chris hero on wed. Also, where have I said I dont like lucha libre?I love mexican wrestling as much as the japanese, aside from Mysterio. And last time i checked liking japanese wrestlers wasn't "otaku nonsense", but hey whatever if thats the case I'll continue my otaku nonsense.

#359 Demolition Man   REV-OH-LU-TION! CAGiversary!   14855 Posts   Joined 14.4 Years Ago  

Demolition Man

Posted 09 April 2006 - 02:46 AM

Just a friendly CAG reminder....

TNA IMPACT IS ON LIKE RIGHT FREAKIN NOW!!!!

#360 Superstar   CAG Superstar! CAGiversary!   2081 Posts   Joined 14.3 Years Ago  

Superstar

Posted 09 April 2006 - 03:05 AM



Tiger Emperor (Kotaro Suzuki) vs. Ricky Marvin in a Hair vs. Mask match.

Awesome match.