Community Feedback Poll - Game Piracy

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[quote name='Gothic Walrus']The problem with that argument is that buying used games DOES help support the publisher, at least indirectly. GameStop and EB make a significant portion of their profit from used games. Without the sale of used games, chances are good the chain wouldn't be able to survive, which would kill the only national video game chain we have. Lousy business practices aside, if GameStop vanished it'd have a very significant effect on the publishers and the gaming industry as a whole.[/quote]

I certainly would not cry a single tear if both Gamestop and EA Games suddenly went belly up one day. It wouldn't affect me buying my games from Target, Kmart or Toys R'Us on clearance, which is the only way I've bought most of my games in recent months/years.

[quote name='E*Master']
This would also not explain how it is ok for gamestop or block bastard Video to buy your games for practically nothing and on top of that, at times worthless store credits when they will orivude a minimal discount of 5 lousy dollars on a game (or 4.50 american). I know this is kind of off the original debate but I just don't see there being anything wrong with piracy. If I DL a Game and I have and I play it for more than 6 days straight I go out and buy it as it seems the publisher deserves my money or if I played the game a while and then see it cheap enough I buy it even if I do not play it again for a while. I see Piracy as a free rental. If I like it I buy it. If not then I discard or delete the sourcefile. [/quote]

If you only trade games when it benefits you(like when there's a good flippable game or three on sale/clearance someplace), then you CAN exploit the trade-in system and actually make something from your used games. That's the ONLY time I EVER trade in games, is when I know I'm making at least 40% more than I paid for them.

As far as piracy goes, the only time I'd consider it myself is when it's a game that wasn't officially released that I wanted to play(see my avatar for the only game I've ever thought about pirating). Otherwise, I just wait for clearances or sales to buy anymore(or if I have credit I made from flipping games).
 
[quote name='E*Master']
Sometimes systems benfit from Piracy. Perfect example is the PSP. Sony is moving hardware left right and center. And trust me, they need the money! Alright maybe not games but to be honst it's great for playing roms and homebrew apps which are awesome. [/QUOTE]

That doesn't help them much for at least a few reasons.

1) Most companies don't make much money on their hardware, but on the software. Losing software sales is suicide. Most situations even dictate that hardware sales actually *lose* money, although I doubt this is the case with the PSP.

2) Developers will be less willing to put games on a system that historically doesn't move software. This is exacerbated if they feel piracy is rampant. PSP titles are gradually slowing, with less big titles and less RPGs. Most newer titles are migrating to the DS, which has had an explosion of RPGs lately.

3) No company gets money from roms or homebrew.

So no, it really doesn't benefit Sony much at all.
 
[quote name='Strell']That doesn't help them much for at least a few reasons.

1) Most companies don't make much money on their hardware, but on the software. Losing software sales is suicide. Most situations even dictate that hardware sales actually *lose* money, although I doubt this is the case with the PSP.

2) Developers will be less willing to put games on a system that historically doesn't move software. This is exacerbated if they feel piracy is rampant. PSP titles are gradually slowing, with less big titles and less RPGs. Most newer titles are migrating to the DS, which has had an explosion of RPGs lately.

3) No company gets money from roms or homebrew.

So no, it really doesn't benefit Sony much at all.[/quote]

What you just said are valid points, but I have to disagree with the end of point 2. The DS has fairly rampant piracy, it is by far the easiest of systems to pirate games on, and because of this more people do it. Yet still, the DS sells like hotcakes.
 
Piracy is just as rampant on the DS as it is on the PSP and I personally haven't seen any diminish of game sales.

Edit: You beat me to it.
 
[quote name='darthbudge']What you just said are valid points, but I have to disagree with the end of point 2. The DS has fairly rampant piracy, it is by far the easiest of systems to pirate games on, and because of this more people do it. Yet still, the DS sells like hotcakes.[/QUOTE]

But the software sales of the DS absolutely trump the PSP in spades. That's the difference. To act like poor software sales don't scare away developers - which is the point the point - is silly. And this is especially apparent when you look at the last month or so for the DS - tons of RPGs being announced, including big daddies like Tales and Phantasy Star, to say nothing of Dragon Quest, Chrono Trigger, and other franchises like Dragonball.

Homeboy up there was saying that the PSP having piracy is a good thing, and then proceeds to say people are buying the machine solely for piracy. That ain't happening with the DS, unless we're talking about obvious groups of people who only use it for that. I guess another way to put it is that the degree on the PSP versus the DS seems to be hurting the PSP more. They might be equal for all I know, or the DS might even have MORE piracy, but it sure as hell isn't stopping the gravy train in near the manner it is for the Sony counterpart.
 
I don't think piracy is hurting either system as much as people like to think.

Like you said, the DS is selling very well (software and hardware) and it's the easiest to pirate games on.

The PSPs lack of similar sales, has nothing (or very, very little) to do with piracy.

Look at the 360.

The 360 is easy to pirate on, and the PS3 can't play pirated games, yet the 360 beats the PS3 in hardware and software sales.
 
[quote name='zewone']
The PSPs lack of similar sales, has nothing (or very, very little) to do with piracy.
[/quote]

For someone who was bitching about people talking about stuff not related to this thread, you sure are doing it a lot.

The PSPs lack of sales has to do with software selling poorly, or software not being made for it, or whatever reason the developers around aren't pushing the system that much. Again, homeboy up there was talking about how piracy HELPS the PSP, and I'm pointing out that it doesn't help that much. I'll even be fair and say it probably helps in the same quantity it hurts, but the point is that it might interrupt the software channel, which WOULD hurt everything else.

Look at the 360.

The 360 is easy to pirate on, and the PS3 can't play pirated games, yet the 360 beats the PS3 in hardware and software sales.
Click to expand...

That's for a huge number of other reasons, piracy being one of the last and smallest bullet points, as well as one of the least applicable. This is an entirely different discussion and you know it.
 
[quote name='Strell']For someone who was bitching about people talking about stuff not related to this thread, you sure are doing it a lot.

The PSPs lack of sales has to do with software selling poorly, or software not being made for it, or whatever reason the developers around aren't pushing the system that much. Again, homeboy up there was talking about how piracy HELPS the PSP, and I'm pointing out that it doesn't help that much. I'll even be fair and say it probably helps in the same quantity it hurts, but the point is that it might interrupt the software channel, which WOULD hurt everything else.



That's for a huge number of other reasons, piracy being one of the last and smallest bullet points, as well as one of the least applicable. This is an entirely different discussion and you know it.[/QUOTE]
I'm contributing to an already useless thread. This thread has never been on topic.

I'm not arguing against you, I'm just saying everyone who thinks piracy is ruining the industry, is blowing it out of proportion. Sure, it's not helping, and it's definitely hurting it, but it's not doing so at a noticeable enough ratio to where it's actually a problem.

Most of my so called "bitching", was at the fact that almost no one in here knows what they are talking about.
 
But the DS has owned the PSP in terms of sales since both have come out, whether it be familiarity with a Nintendo handheld or the price of the PSP is hard to say. But hardware sales will typically dictate where software developers will go to. It's not piracy hurting the PSP sales, it's a combination of things.
 
Im not totally sold one way or another. But one thing i thought about is that even if they don't get to post it early that's not gonna keep them from pirating it & then posting right away after it is released. So i don't know for sure what is better.
 
[quote name='zewone']
I'm not arguing against you, I'm just saying everyone who thinks piracy is ruining the industry, is blowing it out of proportion. Sure, it's not helping, and it's definitely hurting it, but it's not doing so at a noticeable enough ratio to where it's actually a problem.[/quote]

I don't think it's ruining it either, much in the same way I don't see Linux ruining the widespread usage of Windows - it requires some amount of effort that most people A) don't care to know about, and B) won't exert. And since ruination would imply something near total-meltdown, then yes, it's not ruining it.

Most of my so called "bitching", was at the fact that almost no one in here knows what they are talking about.
Click to expand...

Yawn.

[quote name='yukine']But the DS has owned the PSP in terms of sales since both have come out, whether it be familiarity with a Nintendo handheld or the price of the PSP is hard to say. But hardware sales will typically dictate where software developers will go to. It's not piracy hurting the PSP sales, it's a combination of things.[/QUOTE]

My point is that it seems like everyone in the gaming scene is only using the PSP for less-than-non-pirate reasons, and that is how they'd sell it to their friends. Hell, almost everyone on here seems to think the same about the PSP, since it's heralded more as a portable game library device rather than a dedicated-to-UMD-games device.

If it's reached that level of saturation in gaming circles (or at least as it is perceived and implied on here), then that can disrupt things. That's all I'm saying.
 
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I know, I enjoy reading ignorance too.

completelyvalidarguemenzx2.jpg
 
[quote name='fugazi70']

Look at the Amiga,Atari,dreamcast,3do etc and you will see dead systems mainly in part of piracy.[/QUOTE]

More like pisspoor management and horrible, horrible business decisions.

Piracy killed 3DO? ...REALLY? Funny, I thought it was the fact they were trying to sell a console for $700 in 1990s money. That's more than $1050 today. Would you buy a console for that much now? Maybe Sony can charge that much for the PS4, and then you can blame low sales on piracy.
 
I love when people lie to themselves and act like piracy is anything but a negative for the industry. You already ruined PC gaming, and the consoles will be next.
 
[quote name='zewone']I know, I enjoy reading ignorance too.
[/QUOTE]

I'm just saying I'd think you were well practiced at sitting around watching a lot of people say lots of stupid shit.
 
[quote name='zewone']Most of my so called "bitching", was at the fact that almost no one in here knows what they are talking about.[/QUOTE]

:lol:
 
Hey, myke, why'd you let that other guy get away with calling that other guy a "$$$" earlier in the thread?

I thought you had a moral campaign against such injustices?
 
[quote name='Strell']I'm just saying I'd think you were well practiced at sitting around watching a lot of people say lots of stupid shit.[/QUOTE]

This thread was all lulz until they started trying to drag Nintendo's name into this.
 
Yeah.. umm... the argument about the 3DO, Atari, Amiga, etc etc... c'mon.. technology didn't exist at that point for the home enthusiast to easily flash cartridges at the scale we have today with saving ROM's or burning discs.. it's not relevant. They failed for numerous bad business decisions.. look it up.

I can sit here and argue how companies shoot themselves in the foot for overhyping a game with deceptive marketing (ahem... Too Human).. when it's released, nobody buys the damned thing at full MSRP because it sucks. Yeah, a small cult following may love the thing and say that getting an illegal copy of the game is what hurt sales, it hurts the publisher, etc etc... but guess what, the mediocre price will hit $16.96. CAG's will see it.. go ape.. and buy it up on clearance. Why? It's a more realistic price point in terms of the value we consider it to be worthy of purchasing.

So.. developers, publishers, etc... THEY'RE BUSINESSES. Businesses grow or fail all the time. Something like Double Fine.. hell, I love those games. However, somebody makes a BUSINESS decision not to apply proper marketing/promotion behind the product. Or, the mainstream audience is too stupid to get the humor. How can the next product sell more copies? Have a dumbed down presentation, alienate your core fanbase.. but appeal more to the mainstream and move units.

So this whining about stuff like "waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh... Clover closed because somebody downloaded God Hand."... you're letting your emotions cloud your judgement based on facts of economics and business. Yes.. that’s a hypothetical scenario.

Look.. this thread is getting more out of touch on if and why we should DISALLOW censorship on a community that has thrived on the lack thereof.. and more into the ethical dilemma of downloading and playing a game for free or not.

I see no legal ramifications of allowing discussion of pirated games or early releases to continue on this site.. only positives. When it gets into hosting methods of obtaining said games.. that's when the line is crossed. I'm all about keeping censorship as far away as possible from this board.. don't fix it if it ain't broken.

Half of you on your high horse about "you're stealing money from the publisher/developer" etc etc.. would pull that corn cob out of your asses if you were faced with the situation of a deal posting to where you could buy a new Gears of War/Metroid/Ratchet and Clank game for half price 3 weeks prior to release. Getting personal satisfaction upon the negligence of some business is what we get off on around here on CAG... do you think retailers enjoy selling a game that has held valuable retail space for years at 1/4th the price it originally sold at to a bunch of deal hunters with lists?? Hell no.. it isn't profitable. Please.. tell me how many of you bought Okami again on Wii to support Clover and the "beauty and originality of the game" at launch... and how many of you are chomping at the bit for it to hit $16.96 at Circuit City????

There... I say keep the censorship out.. a bunch of game fans on a deal forum discussing a game download IS NOT going to crush an industry that's over-saturated with alternatives, full of piss-poor products (both software and hardware), and has more likelihood to take losses than achieve gains due to a questionable certainty of return on investment in the launch of a new product. Jesus tapdancing Christ… if only oil companies or banks had people crying over when they have to shut their doors or get acquired by bigger companies over making piss poor business choices as badly as they do when a developer closes its doors and its rabid fan base goes nuts…
 
Strell, you're taking the internet too seriously again. I'm not sure if your girlfriend is going to take you back this time.
 
By the way... I'm not all that passionate about this... but all that typing just got me out of having to go to the store under the excuse of "I can't go to the store right now dear, I'm typing an important email to somebody at work." :)

Score!!!! Resume countdown to watching USC get their ass kicked tomorrow...
 
[quote name='Moxio']I'm gonna hafta agree with Trakan.[/quote]

Yep.

Even though it was kinda funny watching them go at it, it certainly as no place in this thread.
 
I am sorry i am a pirate so to speak meaning i have a flashed PSP but i still buy games , i have a flashed xbox360 drive but i still buy games and i was around in the days of Xbox 1 piracy and can tell you that i feel in my mind you can have a copy of every game in the world but unless you have the hardware to play it on what good is it. Now with that said and my account now most likely being banned for stating what i did above i will also point out that i do not distribute nor sell games i never have and i never will.I do not condone the illegal downloading or distribution of games as it take's food out of peoples mouths and hurts both software and hardware manufacturers. For the hardware side one needs to look no further then the Xbox360 which has gone through 3 drive manufacturers and 11 different types of drives and now a 12th one unreleased yet is in the works as the new lite-on drive has been hacked to the point of being able to change it for a hacked one via spoofing the firmware and any Google search can find you a older model drive.

Many of my friends who wanted to buy a next gen system asked me what hacks were out for what systems. After telling them were to look and what to get needless to say Nintendo and Microsoft just made about 5 hardware sales a piece.Not to mention if you want to play a numbers game lets say currently according to the latest torrent results for rock band 2 theirs over 600 seeds and another 1200 lechers. Now this means that are 2000 pirates who still had to go and buy a xbox 360 plus controllers and other hardware on top of that lets say they each of those 2000 pirates have 5 friends who they flashed the there xbox 360 drive for so 5 x 2000 so that 10,000 hardware sales but you can more then double that number for the Halo 3 release.

Now I don't know how much is known by other members about how much these company's have messed up with there security but the Nintendo Wii being a wonderful system and all has the same wide open security flaws that Microsoft did on the xbox 1 had which is why home brew and piracy is so ramped on that system and why Nintendo would do this does raise a eyebrow or 2 knowing damm right well what happened to Microsoft's xbox1 and to their game cube from the last gen.

The only smart one out of any of them was Sony now i know that the PS3 right out of the box version of linux sucks but it did stop a larger number of people from even asking the question "How do we port linux to it" cause it was already there and there was no big hack to release like what was done with Mr. Anonymous and the who Xbox360 King Kong linux thing.

The security on the PS3 being so tight to date the only thing home brew or piracy that has been aloud to runs has been 5 launch titles and a couple of hello world's but yet is still the 3rd place runner...i wonder why?

Yes piracy of any kind is wrong but so are ebay venders you know people who order a dozen or so of the same game from the distributors and sell them before the street date just like they did with Halo 3 ,PG4, GTA IV, and so on.

Whats the difference really if someone who ebayed a pirate or even someone who works for the company gives a aheads up about a game. As long as they give a honest review and don't mention how they got or from who and just focus on the game, are you relay going to know the difference on were it came from?

Oh and the whole reason why i have flashed and hacked systems was just to say i did it and to run certain home brew such as a 360 linux.

The following video is a good read in to the sercity on the xbox 360 but shows the mistake made by the comany with both the xbox 1 and the 360 but come to a point of make "they knew this was going to happen" as not all hackers and pirates are fat guys living at home with in there moms basement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxjpmc8ZIxM

If you can't wait for the point goto tie index 45:00 to see the point and the list of last gens systems and this gen systems
​
 
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Posting early impressions is fine. Some people get games early legitimately (stores break date, work at a game store that got them in early and let employees take them etc.) so there's no way to tell who pirated it and who didn't.

But if there's any mention of pirating (how they got it, or even alluding that the pirated it) the post should be deleted and infractions handed out with temp or perm bans for repeat offenses.
 
I haven't read the last 26 pages, nor do I plan to (that's a lot of reading, and I just don't feel like it), but I have to say that I personally would have benefited from reading some early reviews of Too Human, and now I'm really reconsidering my purchase of The Force Unleashed. If it's anything like Too Human, I'll play it for a couple hours, then regret I bought it... so if someone else wants to break the law, I have no problem hearing about their opinions. As long as it's only their opinions and reviews, I can't see any downside. If they're giving instructions on how to hack a console or something, then the argument can be made that this isn't the place for it.
 
[quote name='Trakan']Guys, forget all of this "Was it pirated? Was it bought early at a store? Can you provide a receipt and picture for proof?" He's not asking about any of that.

He's saying to assume that people did pirate a game. Can that person discuss the game before its release date on CAG? Just discussion. Not necessarily reviews, not direct links or how to's. Piracy itself wouldn't even be mentioned in the posts.

Let's say I got Gears 2 early. Would me writing up my thoughts on the game or initial impressions before the game was out be a big deal? That's what Cheapy is asking.[/quote]

Yes I think it would be a big deal, but to disallow it doesn't seem feasible.
 
I'd just like to take a moment here to recognize my efforts in spearheading this movement against the pirates of CAG. If it were not for my groundbreaking story revealing the nature and whereabouts of the hackers, CAG would not be making the steps that it is today.

I'd also like to have a moment of silence honoring the work of Inufaye and DarkSlayer, who are no longer with us after falling victim to the hackers.

.

.

.

.

.

Thank you.
 
So.... what about when the Circuit City deals were announced a few years back. Didn't Cheapy fight for anonymity when the lawyers asked for IP's?
 
[quote name='Wolfkin']just because you can't enforce it properly doesn't mean it won't be 'enforced'. Watch for scads of people getting games early and before the 'internet' gets wind of the pre-release availability of the game. Many of these early reviewers will be banned as pirates. (unless they have receipt scans: no pics = no proof)[/quote]
So you're in favor of mods stopping folks doing "early" impressions/reviews and saying "Papers, please? Fail to comply and you will be banned. You should have no problem with this, as you have nothing to hide... right?"

SERIOUSLY? Even GameFAQs doesn't do that.

Like I said, Scarlet P, baby! That's what it is all about. Oh what a great board in which we live, where iniquities such as piracy are dragged out into the light.
 
the source of the game should not matter. as long as it does not promote piracy, such as state it was pirated or link to pirated programs, it should not matter. a game is a game.
 
[quote name='Ugamer_X']I'd just like to take a moment here to recognize my efforts in spearheading this movement against the pirates of CAG. If it were not for my groundbreaking story revealing the nature and whereabouts of the hackers, CAG would not be making the steps that it is today.

I'd also like to have a moment of silence honoring the work of Inufaye and DarkSlayer, who are no longer with us after falling victim to the hackers.

Thank you.[/QUOTE]

This.. has to be.. either one of the douchiest things I've ever seen on CAG... or comedic gold.
 
[quote name='Ugamer_X']I'd just like to take a moment here to recognize my efforts in spearheading this movement against the pirates of CAG. [/quote]

So Ugamer, are you saying you've never bought a used game?
 
[quote name='robosheep']Buying a preowned game helps the publisher in that Gamestop is a publicly traded company so publishers have detailed reports on their earnings. They see that Gamestop is profiting from used games so they start producing DLC and even whole downloadable games that become locked into the purchasers system.
Plus, the distribution of a preowned game to a pirated rom is much smaller. So the original purchaser to end owner is more of a 1:1 ratio vs the 1:XXXX ratio of online piracy.
That all said, of course you should buy new if you want to encourage the developer to continue to make similar games. Buying used or piracy both send the message to the developer that 'this isn't worth my money'.[/quote]

Not really cause for me it tells developers that I'm broke and I can't afford the new games I have to get them used most of the time cause I'm broke.
 
[quote name='FiendCameron']the source of the game should not matter. as long as it does not promote piracy, such as state it was pirated or link to pirated programs, it should not matter. a game is a game.[/QUOTE]

This reflects my reasoning as well.
 
i vote no. there are ways to review games without pirating a game. personally i do not want to know everything about a game takes away from it
 
who gives a crap if its pirated.? SCREW the gaming indistry. Why do we have to spend over 120 dollars just to buy 2 new games? I litterly CANT afford it.
Then they wonder why used gaming shops are getting richer and expanding faster than ever, stealing even more of their sales. the day when games can only be bought via online = fuck gaming . These companys really know how to suck the fun out of playing video games.
 
[quote name='blacksanta87']who gives a crap if its pirated.? SCREW the gaming indistry. Why do we have to spend over 120 dollars just to buy 2 new games? I litterly CANT afford it.
Then they wonder why used gaming shops are getting richer and expanding faster than ever, stealing even more of their sales. the day when games can only be bought via online = fuck gaming . These companys really know how to suck the fun out of playing video games.[/quote]

...wow...that's some good logic. You know what's expensive, too? Sports cars! Would you steal them, too?
 
Information wants to be free. The end.

When FOX decides it is ok for me to use a TWO SECOND simpsons clip in a youtube video for my CLASSROOM then I'll care about corporate concerns about information. Until then, all information should be free. Stop those who openly admit to piracy but to stop them from writing about something is frankly, terrible.

And I say this as a business loving, gun toting republican.
 
it would be ridiculously hypocritical to support speedy, store errors that result in huge discounts, broken street dates, and all of the other questionable stuff that is what this site thrives on, while condemning people who are not even proven as guilty.

tbh no one has any right what so ever to demand proof of where a game came from. there are several non-pirate ways people can get a game early. no one is guilty until proven innocent and the burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused.

if someone talks about pirating the game they should be actioned, but until that they should have their right to privacy just like when speedy's privacy was championed.
 
Sorry to derail this (even though it's been derailed a million times), but what does Speedy (and anyone else who does this) do that's so bad? I don't see how checking out a weekly ad 2 weeks before it's out is bad?

I remember CiruitCity was pissed because we found out about the PS3 price drop and thus sales stopped for a week or 2? (Something along those lines)..but I don't see how any of that is bad.
 
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