CONFIRMED:HDMI-enabled black Xbox 360 out on April 29!

I've been reading threads on this all day, and I just have to respond to something I've seen over and over and over and over and over.....

"For $20, you can get Blu-Ray!"

Let me tell you a little secret. YOU care about Blu-Ray. Do you know why? You're a guy on an internet message board talking about videogames. You are, I am... we all are. We're the target demographic. Thing is, do you understand what a small percentage of the overall market we really are? I say this with emphasis: AVERAGE CONSUMERS COULDN'T POSSIBLY GIVE LESS OF A SHIT ABOUT BLU-RAY OR HD-DVD. They aren't going to look at it and go "oh, only such and such more for Blu-Ray!", they'll just see it as the PS3... you know, the thing that should play games, right?

That's what gets me the most about all of these comments... they all seem to justify these prices based on HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. "Oh, but you get Blu-Ray for only $20 more!" "Pfft... no internal HD-DVD drive and they want HOW much?" Maybe I'm in the minority here, but you know what I want a 360 and a PS3 for? TO PLAY GAMES. To me, the PS3 is a $600 (don't fool yourselves, go ahead and show me a 20gig you've seen recently) videogame console... and that's exactly what JimmyBob and BerthaJethro Wal-Mart see it as. Same with those HD-DVD drives that hook up to the 360... they're not buying it. I understand the temptation, I really do. Just please, PLEASE, try not to get sucked into Sony's little wet-dream that game consoles are the battleground of the HD format war... and remember, we're the ones that care, but we're not the ones that matter.

And... wow. I'm really, really sorry about the rant here. I just had to get that one out. :lol:
 
[quote name='carthitup']I've been reading threads on this all day, and I just have to respond to something I've seen over and over and over and over and over.....

"For $20, you can get Blu-Ray!"

Let me tell you a little secret. YOU care about Blu-Ray. Do you know why? You're a guy on an internet message board talking about videogames. You are, I am... we all are. We're the target demographic. Thing is, do you understand what a small percentage of the overall market we really are? I say this with emphasis: AVERAGE CONSUMERS COULDN'T POSSIBLY GIVE LESS OF A SHIT ABOUT BLU-RAY OR HD-DVD. They aren't going to look at it and go "oh, only such and such more for Blu-Ray!", they'll just see it as the PS3... you know, the thing that should play games, right?

That's what gets me the most about all of these comments... they all seem to justify these prices based on HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. "Oh, but you get Blu-Ray for only $20 more!" "Pfft... no internal HD-DVD drive and they want HOW much?" Maybe I'm in the minority here, but you know what I want a 360 and a PS3 for? TO PLAY GAMES. To me, the PS3 is a $600 (don't fool yourselves, go ahead and show me a 20gig you've seen recently) videogame console... and that's exactly what JimmyBob and BerthaJethro Wal-Mart see it as. Same with those HD-DVD drives that hook up to the 360... they're not buying it. I understand the temptation, I really do. Just please, PLEASE, try not to get sucked into Sony's little wet-dream that game consoles are the battleground of the HD format war... and remember, we're the ones that care, but we're not the ones that matter.

And... wow. I'm really, really sorry about the rant here. I just had to get that one out. :lol:[/QUOTE]



Sony = Sony Computer ENTERTAINMENT of America - Entertaiment encompasses, not just games, but music and movies. Instead of putting the Playstation 3 down for what it does, just enjoy it for what it is... The playstation 2 was my first dvd player, and that's how I watched my first dvd... I didn't buy the ps2 for a dvd player, but you know what I'm glad that it had it, and I enjoyed it. Even if I bought the ps3 at 450.00 (after severe price drops) I'm not going to JUST use it for games... I'm going to try and use every feature it has to offer.
 
[quote name='carthitup']I've been reading threads on this all day, and I just have to respond to something I've seen over and over and over and over and over.....

"For $20, you can get Blu-Ray!"

Let me tell you a little secret. YOU care about Blu-Ray. Do you know why? You're a guy on an internet message board talking about videogames. You are, I am... we all are. We're the target demographic. Thing is, do you understand what a small percentage of the overall market we really are? I say this with emphasis: AVERAGE CONSUMERS COULDN'T POSSIBLY GIVE LESS OF A SHIT ABOUT BLU-RAY OR HD-DVD. They aren't going to look at it and go "oh, only such and such more for Blu-Ray!", they'll just see it as the PS3... you know, the thing that should play games, right?

That's what gets me the most about all of these comments... they all seem to justify these prices based on HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. "Oh, but you get Blu-Ray for only $20 more!" "Pfft... no internal HD-DVD drive and they want HOW much?" Maybe I'm in the minority here, but you know what I want a 360 and a PS3 for? TO PLAY GAMES. To me, the PS3 is a $600 (don't fool yourselves, go ahead and show me a 20gig you've seen recently) videogame console... and that's exactly what JimmyBob and BerthaJethro Wal-Mart see it as. Same with those HD-DVD drives that hook up to the 360... they're not buying it. I understand the temptation, I really do. Just please, PLEASE, try not to get sucked into Sony's little wet-dream that game consoles are the battleground of the HD format war... and remember, we're the ones that care, but we're not the ones that matter.

And... wow. I'm really, really sorry about the rant here. I just had to get that one out. :lol:[/quote]

100% Agreed.
 
[quote name='Dante Devil']Man, I am torn. Do I sell my current 360 for a new update or save the money and get a PS3?[/QUOTE]


same here... I'm leaning more towards just getting a new HDD and that's it.
 
[quote name='Dante Devil']Man, I am torn. Do I sell my current 360 for a new update or save the money and get a PS3?[/QUOTE]

depending on how much I can get for my current 360 will be my deciding factor. Say I sell it for only $250, I'm still looking at another $250 to upgrade to the black console. I will likely stick with my white one and just invest in the bigger HDD. I've been looking forward to that anyways as I only have about 2 GB of space left right now.
 
[quote name='Roufuss']Rumors? Someone nudged into my entertainment center while my 360 was on and the fucking thing red lighted and broke.

Microsoft makes extremely shitty pieces of hardware... strangely out of the 20 years I've been gaming only my Xbox and Xbox 360 ever broke on me.

Rumors my ass...amazingly enough it was a launch Xbox and a close to launch 360 that broke on me.[/QUOTE]

Sony makes 10x worse :razz: I've only had 1 xbox "kinda" die on me, compared to the 30+ PS2 deaths that I personally know of and the 4 PSP deaths, oh and lets not forget the old "never met an original PSOne that didn't turn to shit within months". To this day, I have yet to see a perfectly working orginal PSOne.

Face it; as time goes on and consoles become more complexed, more parts get used. More parts used = higher percentage that one of the pieces malfuntion and the whole thing goes to shit. It's not just 360 or M$, but every system, made by every developer. Although, Nintendo does seemingly make indestructable handhelds.
 
[quote name='carthitup']I've been reading threads on this all day, and I just have to respond to something I've seen over and over and over and over and over.....

"For $20, you can get Blu-Ray!"

Let me tell you a little secret. YOU care about Blu-Ray. Do you know why? You're a guy on an internet message board talking about videogames. You are, I am... we all are. We're the target demographic. Thing is, do you understand what a small percentage of the overall market we really are? I say this with emphasis: AVERAGE CONSUMERS COULDN'T POSSIBLY GIVE LESS OF A SHIT ABOUT BLU-RAY OR HD-DVD. They aren't going to look at it and go "oh, only such and such more for Blu-Ray!", they'll just see it as the PS3... you know, the thing that should play games, right?

That's what gets me the most about all of these comments... they all seem to justify these prices based on HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. "Oh, but you get Blu-Ray for only $20 more!" "Pfft... no internal HD-DVD drive and they want HOW much?" Maybe I'm in the minority here, but you know what I want a 360 and a PS3 for? TO PLAY GAMES. To me, the PS3 is a $600 (don't fool yourselves, go ahead and show me a 20gig you've seen recently) videogame console... and that's exactly what JimmyBob and BerthaJethro Wal-Mart see it as. Same with those HD-DVD drives that hook up to the 360... they're not buying it. I understand the temptation, I really do. Just please, PLEASE, try not to get sucked into Sony's little wet-dream that game consoles are the battleground of the HD format war... and remember, we're the ones that care, but we're not the ones that matter.

And... wow. I'm really, really sorry about the rant here. I just had to get that one out. :lol:[/QUOTE]

when normal people start thinking of spending $400+ for a game machine, they start to take things like Blu-ray, HD-DVD, larger HDDs, HDMI, features, etc. etc. into account. nobody wants to pay $400+ for just a game console...it's nice if it can perform more than one function at that price. It's not a totally insane idea to consider the value you're getting for your money. though it is pretty insane to think the ps3 will never have games, which seems to be implied in every post on cag.
 
[quote name='Kendro']Does that mean the Premium is going to drop in price? I am considering selling my 360 to get the black one but if it means the Premium is dropping, I'll have to do it much sooner than expected.[/quote]

it wont be dropping until at least July. the black 360 is just a limited production run. kind of like an early release. it will be re-released in white as the premium in July for $400. then the premium should drop to $300-350. core might die.
 
[quote name='tayaf69']What will HDMI do for the 360 games though? They weren't made for it were they, so will we even see a difference in graphics?[/quote] not a whole lot. but it will help for some people who use the HD-DVD drive, since not all HDTVs accept VGA. and although there are VGA-HDMI converters, its just another step.

though imo component works perfectly fine. 1080i is exactly the same as 1080p if youre TV is 1/2 way decent.

http://hometheatermag.com/gearworks/1106gear/
 
I don't care. I bought an xbox 360 in November and I am not mad whatsoever. I don't understand why so many people in this thread are.

There will always be upgrades and improvements to every electronic device you buy. Why waste the money by upgrading?

What happens when a silver 360 comes out in 2 years with a 300gb harddrive? Are you going to be pissed off that you bought a black 120gb 360?
 
[quote name='ChaoticClimax']I don't care. I bought an xbox 360 in November and I am not mad whatsoever. I don't understand why so many people in this thread are.

There will always be upgrades and improvements to every electronic device you buy. Why waste the money by upgrading?

What happens when a silver 360 comes out in 2 years with a 300gb harddrive? Are you going to be pissed off that you bought a black 120gb 360?[/QUOTE]

Yes, yes they will. You can't please everyone. Funny thing is people knew this was going to happen yet they still bitch about it. Then again this is the internet where bitching is the universal language.
 
[quote name='Apossum']it is pretty insane to think the ps3 will never have games, which seems to be implied in every post on cag.[/quote]

I agree - the games will come out eventually and the PS3 will be a great system. Right now it's hard to justify the cost though...
 
[quote name='jeffreyjrose']100% Agreed.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, it's 100% wrong.

DVD capability is what helped make Sony the leader last generation. People DO want all-in-wonder machines, even if it means it doesn't do everything as well.

Tell Joe consumer he can have:
Game system
next-gen video output
DVD player
for $480

or
Game system
next-gen video output
DVD player
next-gen DVD player
for $500

Which one do you think they are going to choose? Not to mention the fact that how many households have PS2s and the plethora of games, meaning they can pawn off their old system and possibly get the 60GB system for a little bit more, and the choice is made easy.

You and I both know the 360 is the better game system right now, but Joe Consumer may not. 360 has 'OMG TEH HALO!!!11', but every thing I've seen in Wal-mart with opposable thumbs (and there are a good many who don't) has been lining up to play the MotorStorm demo. I'm talking two or three deep here. Granted, these people may not have the money to buy either, but given the choice it may be a tough decision.

The 360 may be a great gaming system, but the reviews are in on the HD-DVD player and it's average at best. All accounts are that the PS3 is a average gaming system (ATM) but a damn good Blu-Ray player. All things comparable, the 360 now costs more for the same feature set.
 
First, I know PS3 will have games. My problem is that people are justifying the system based on the Blu-Ray player, NOT the games. I just want someone to go "man, I bought a PS3 because (insert any # of games here) is coming out!". You rarely hear that, unless it's MGS4.

Second, Joe Consumer was lucky to get a DVD player with the PS2, and so was Sony. I admit that the PS2 helped DVD take off as a format immensely. But, let's remember we're dealing with a large number of people who STILL don' understand widescreen vs. fullscreen. Go ahead and ask them about HDMI... do you honestly think they'll have any clue what it is?

Point is, sure, if you know what Blu-Ray is and you want it... PS3 is great. Joe Consumer is going to hook his PS3 up through composite cables and go "hey, this isn't really that impressive, I'm sticking with DVD".

Sony is trying to capture lightening in a bottle twice, and at the expense of consumers. I, for one, am glad Microsoft isn't shoving an HD-DVD player down our throat.


(and, in case this sounds like "argh, sony!", I need to see what exactly Microsoft is throwing in to justify the $480, because as of right now I'm not seeing it.)
 
[quote name='carthitup']First, I know PS3 will have games. My problem is that people are justifying the system based on the Blu-Ray player, NOT the games. I just want someone to go "man, I bought a PS3 because (insert any # of games here) is coming out!". You rarely hear that, unless it's MGS4.

Second, Joe Consumer was lucky to get a DVD player with the PS2, and so was Sony. I admit that the PS2 helped DVD take off as a format immensely. But, let's remember we're dealing with a large number of people who STILL don' understand widescreen vs. fullscreen. Go ahead and ask them about HDMI... do you honestly think they'll have any clue what it is?

Point is, sure, if you know what Blu-Ray is and you want it... PS3 is great. Joe Consumer is going to hook his PS3 up through composite cables and go "hey, this isn't really that impressive, I'm sticking with DVD".

Sony is trying to capture lightening in a bottle twice, and at the expense of consumers. I, for one, am glad Microsoft isn't shoving an HD-DVD player down our throat.


(and, in case this sounds like "argh, sony!", I need to see what exactly Microsoft is throwing in to justify the $480, because as of right now I'm not seeing it.)[/QUOTE]
I am a hardcore gamer, but recently bought a 32" lcd tv. I would never justify spending 500+ (let alone 100+) for simply a video player of any kind. The blue-ray built in to the ps3 would be a major reason for me owning the system. That way I have the PS3 to play my games, which I am probably going to buy JUST for Ratchet and Clank, but at the same time I will have that blue-ray player for a much cheaper cost.

I don't care about how "crappy" the ps3 blue-ray is than others. I still use my PS2 as my dvd player and that's the only one I own. The ps3 will my only blue-ray player.
 
Boom... there you go. That's completely understandable. My only DVD player was a PS2 for a long time, and the PS3 will be my only Blu-Ray player. As long as it's ONE OF the benefits of getting the system, fine. I'm just slightly sick of people saying it's the only reason. I already own 'Casino Royale' on Blu-Ray, so I'll defintely put the player to use... whenever Sony offers me enough to actually justify the price.

Which, ultimately, is my problem. I'm with you, I can't justify spending over $100 on a player, which is exactly what I feel like I'm doing with the PS3. When I get a 360, I'll never had the HD-DVD drive because I can't justify the price. I simply object to the fact that Sony gave me no choice.


Back to my really, really original point... people aren't going to go "only $20 more for Blu-Ray!", they're going to go "$20 more for a Playstation!"... Sony still has the name recognition that will sell systems. All I was trying to say is, just try and bear in mind that Joe Consumer IS NOT excited for Blu-Ray OR HD-DVD and certainly isn't buying $600 consoles exclusively for them. We are not the ones who buy 10 or 20 million systems... we're the exceptions, guys, not the rule. We care, they don't. Simple.

They don't see a cheap Blu-Ray player, they see an expensive videogame console, and they're the ones that Sony (and Microsoft) have to convince.
 
[quote name='ezwaffles']Have they announced how we will get our game saves from the small 20g HD to the larger 100g HD?[/QUOTE]

with an xport or memory card I imagine...that would suck if they made people buy those though. that's an extra 30-50 right there. You'll probably have to redownload all the XBLA games as well, which means you can't play them off-line.

Back to my really, really original point... people aren't going to go "only $20 more for Blu-Ray!", they're going to go "$20 more for a Playstation!"... Sony still has the name recognition that will sell systems. All I was trying to say is, just try and bear in mind that Joe Consumer IS NOT excited for Blu-Ray OR HD-DVD and certainly isn't buying $600 consoles exclusively for them. We are not the ones who buy 10 or 20 million systems... we're the exceptions, guys, not the rule. We care, they don't. Simple.

They don't see a cheap Blu-Ray player, they see an expensive videogame console, and they're the ones that Sony (and Microsoft) have to convince.
Click to expand...

If you walk in to any Bestbuy or Circuit City, you'll see a big "Blu-Ray/HD-DVD" display. So Joe Bestbuy will see that and if he's smart, he'll make the connection. HDTVs are only getting pushed harder and harder and the picture quality difference is very nice with Blu-ray, which is why people call it Blu-ray a "trojan horse" for this gen. The HD-DVD add-on could become a competitor later as well if they drop the price to $99.99. I think you're underestimating what people see though...before the PS2 gen, I would agree, but one of the big selling points of the PS2 was the DVD player, which has trained people to say "what else can it do" when they hear about a system.

anyway, this is pretty off topic.
 
[quote name='Apossum']with an xport or memory card I imagine...that would suck if they made people buy those though. that's an extra 30-50 right there. You'll probably have to redownload all the XBLA games as well, which means you can't play them off-line.[/QUOTE]

These are the questions I have if I decide to go to this new version 360. So you would remove your profile from the old 360 and recover it on the new one which would allow you to re-download your arcade games? but if you re-download them on the new console you can't play them offline? That would also suck for game saves.

Being that I don't have an HDMI capable display and I have a free one year replacement plan from Gamestop I might just see how my 360 holds up...if it goes within the year then hopefully I can just get a new premium with a quieter drive and keep my HDD. The new 65nm chipset would be nice too but I won't hold my breath. I'm not sure I need the 120GB HDD...my 20GB is almost full but its almost all demos anyway.
 
There are two things that some people keep forgetting for some reason:

1. The mainstream consumer will NOT spend $500 on a videogame system, an HD-disc player, or any combination thereof. You're talking exclusively about hardcore tech adopters, who will not have a large impact on console market share. This is the reason Sony's now in the mess they are. Even the 360 will not 'take off' until it's $300 or lower.

2. The $500 PS3 has basically been discontinued anyway.
 
[quote name='carthitup'] I admit that the PS2 helped DVD take off as a format immensely. [/QUOTE]

You got that backwards. A decent DVD player in 1999 set you back about 5 Franklins. 2000, it had gone down to the $170-$240 range for the usual suspects. For $300, you got a decent DVD player and a new generation machine that also played all your PS favorites.

DVD was already hugely successful (371% growth increase in 1999). DVD pushed PS2, not the other way around. And if you remember, the PS2 launch was pretty abysmal.
 
Yeargh... yeah, sorry, I did screw that one up. :whistle2:#


Anyway, onward, this generation all comes down to what you believe average people are going to do. Tech people (like us) are going to cream over HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. That's not in question. What IS the main thing here is... do you believe that Joe Consumer will care? This isn't a jump like we had with VHS to DVD where there was a HUGE difference. These new formats look quite nice, but I just honestly can't see average consumers caring, especially since they're fine with DVDs. On top of that, people have much larger DVD collections than the average VHS collection (simply because of cost) and I just don't see them being willing to change. There's no incentive for them here, especially considering the price. It took a while for DVD to really catch on, and it WAS a huge leap.

The question is... if Joe Consumer does make the connection... what is going to make him care?
 
The DS to the Lite.

THE PS2 to the Slim.

I am not seeing any real changes here for making this console. It is still the same size...
 
[quote name='the3rdkey']The DS to the Lite.

THE PS2 to the Slim.

I am not seeing any real changes here for making this console. It is still the same size...[/quote]

Cooler, Quieter, Larger Harddrive, HDMI.

In the cases you are presenting, stuff(features and bulk) is being removed. Things are being added here.

Totally different.

I'm not going to call this a revision, as its not. It's a 3rd SKU.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']You got that backwards. A decent DVD player in 1999 set you back about 5 Franklins. 2000, it had gone down to the $170-$240 range for the usual suspects. For $300, you got a decent DVD player and a new generation machine that also played all your PS favorites.

DVD was already hugely successful (371% growth increase in 1999). DVD pushed PS2, not the other way around. And if you remember, the PS2 launch was pretty abysmal.[/QUOTE]



DVD was still kinda unproven in Japan... that's where the PS2 really helped the DVD market... in Japan. [but even in the US... the ps2 was still the first DVD player for a lot of Sony customers) It was easier for DVD becuase it didn't have any competition, Laser Disc, was clearly inferior, and DVD wasn't a choice.. it was just the successor to the format throne. ]
 
[quote name='derder']Cooler, Quieter, Larger Harddrive, HDMI.

In the cases you are presenting, stuff(features and bulk) is being removed. Things are being added here.

Totally different.

I'm not going to call this a revision, as its not. It's a 3rd SKU.[/quote]
According to Engadget from yesterday, it is a 3rd SKU:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/20/...mited-edition-xbox-with-hdmi-and-120gb-drive/

Plus, the Elite (as they call it), will be a limited edition 360, and everything inside of the Elite will move to the Premium, theoretically over the late summer/early fall.
 
[quote name='carthitup']First, I know PS3 will have games. My problem is that people are justifying the system based on the Blu-Ray player, NOT the games. I just want someone to go "man, I bought a PS3 because (insert any # of games here) is coming out!". You rarely hear that, unless it's MGS4.

Second, Joe Consumer was lucky to get a DVD player with the PS2, and so was Sony. I admit that the PS2 helped DVD take off as a format immensely. But, let's remember we're dealing with a large number of people who STILL don' understand widescreen vs. fullscreen. Go ahead and ask them about HDMI... do you honestly think they'll have any clue what it is?

Point is, sure, if you know what Blu-Ray is and you want it... PS3 is great. Joe Consumer is going to hook his PS3 up through composite cables and go "hey, this isn't really that impressive, I'm sticking with DVD".

Sony is trying to capture lightening in a bottle twice, and at the expense of consumers. I, for one, am glad Microsoft isn't shoving an HD-DVD player down our throat.


(and, in case this sounds like "argh, sony!", I need to see what exactly Microsoft is throwing in to justify the $480, because as of right now I'm not seeing it.)[/QUOTE]



YOu really just paying for the Hard drive in the new 360... the 20gb hard drive was 100.00 at 360 launch... now you got a unit w/ a 120gb hard drive... (and not a regular hard drive, but a proprietary drive)


and its not fair to criticize the Playstation 3 for its number of games... or compare it to the 360 who has a good year under its belt and is now well established. Games will come and people know that... the 360 at launch didn't have a steller cast of games, but people know that Halo is coming, we knew that Ninja Gaiden is coming, and a host of others.


I think that Joe consumer is smarter nowadays and understand how HD works... who's buying all those HDTVs.... not me and you.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']
I think that Joe consumer is smarter nowadays and understand how HD works... who's buying all those HDTVs.... not me and you.[/QUOTE]

I think general consumers associate HD more with "widescreen" and "flat" and simply the idea that it looks better. Start asking them if their TV supports HDMI, 720P, 1080P, 1080i, etc... and you'll get a lot of blank stares and the occasional "it says HDTV right there on the front of it".

And there's not too big of a market for standard def TVs anymore. Walk into any Best Buy and HDTVs outnumber standard def units by at least 3 to 1.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']$480? Shit, that makes the PS3 look like a fuckin' steal at that price.

Where's propellor-head to tell me that I was right and he was wrong?[/QUOTE]

I have to agree. This is a dumb move on MS' part. No wifi and no HD-DVD? Just a bigger hard drive and HDMI? WTF?! Honestly, I think that most people would spring for a PS3 for 20 bucks more than upgrade to a crappy re-hash.
 
[quote name='sonderiaom']I wouldn't buy the new 'Elite' for $480, but if they drop the premium down to $300 as well, I would surely pick it up.[/quote]

Well, a LOT of this is still speculation as to what will be included with which version...but how about this. After the "Limited" Black Elite sells out, and MS goes back to a white Premium Elite at $400, instead of dropping it to $300 or $350, they include Halo 3 at $400. Or throw in Halo 3 with the Black one and charge $500 for it total. Now THAT would move systems, and quite possibly ensure 'victory' in this generation of the 'console wars'.
 
[quote name='carthitup']Yeargh... yeah, sorry, I did screw that one up. :whistle2:#


Anyway, onward, this generation all comes down to what you believe average people are going to do. Tech people (like us) are going to cream over HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. That's not in question. What IS the main thing here is... do you believe that Joe Consumer will care? This isn't a jump like we had with VHS to DVD where there was a HUGE difference. These new formats look quite nice, but I just honestly can't see average consumers caring, especially since they're fine with DVDs. On top of that, people have much larger DVD collections than the average VHS collection (simply because of cost) and I just don't see them being willing to change. There's no incentive for them here, especially considering the price. It took a while for DVD to really catch on, and it WAS a huge leap.

The question is... if Joe Consumer does make the connection... what is going to make him care?[/QUOTE]


the answer is ambiguous this time around. DVDs had a clear reason to take off. blu-ray/HDDVD is like this new generation of video games-- it all looks much nicer and is very cutting edge, but there are years worth of fun left in previous gens, so is it really necessary to upgrade? not really. but people want the new, shiny thing. That principle needs to apply to movies for either format to be successful.

All it takes is for Joe Consumer to have a couple hundred dollars worth of disposable income to get him to consider moving a step up.


okay, yeah, now we're officially way off topic :lol:
 
[quote name='carthitup'] I just want someone to go "man, I bought a PS3 because (insert any # of games here) is coming out!". You rarely hear that, unless it's MGS4.
[/QUOTE]

The problem is, you are almost never going to hear that. Simply because to most people, there is no such thing as a game so fantastic, so incredible, and so groundbreaking that it justifies spending $600+ to play.

Sony's only ace in their pocket is bluray. The PS3's very success may depend on bluray.
 
I'm willing to bet that MGS4 is going to come out on 360 in some point in time anyways. The cost of production has to be forcing companies to go multi-platform.
 
You don't have to be tech savvy to see the difference in TVs these days. It's something that all major electronics stores (especially Fry's) does well: show them off. As long as you have at least 20/100 eyesight, the flat panel HDTVs will always look better than anything else currently available.

I haven't done any research, but do the next-gen players still upconvert DVDs to near-HD?
 
Will this new "Elite" 360 eventual;ly be a necessity to play games or not? I mean I got a regular 360, sealed, sitting right here and I'm not sure if I should just sell it and wait for the Elite or just keep it...but I mean if eventually they'll make games so large I NEED the extra space...no point in spending money to upgrade later.

How much is the larger 120GB drive or w/e separately?
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']
Sony's only ace in their pocket is bluray. The PS3's very success may depend on bluray.[/QUOTE]

I have to seriously disagree with that. All platforms best trump cards are the exclusive content. As long as Nintendo features Mario and Zelda they will stay afloat. Microsoft, Halo (and to a lesser extent the Live service). Sony has/had J&D, R&C, FF (not so much anymore), GT, and formerly GTA.

I know someone isn't going to read the whole post before they state that it isn't true, but think about it seriously for a minute. Technology, price, availability all play major roles as well, but it all comes down to what games you want to play. Sure, third-party cross-platformers will usually gravitate to the console with the best features (usually visuals or online), but after that what do you look for? If the 360 came out without games you wanted to play would you buy it? Of course not.

Crackdown, PGR, etc aren't system sellers by themselves. Neither are cross-platformers. Collectively, they are. But the thing that I can guarantee you trumps everything is Halo.

As for Wii, the controllers are interesting. The different takes on cross-platformers are as well. Both combined don't really sell systems. Mario and Link do. Combine that with the other two reasons, and you sell lots of systems.

As for the PS3, the price is the main obstacle to sales. That, and Sony's unfair reputation over the last couple of years. A next-gen video player is a major plus, but it's not a system seller except to the Blu-Ray fanatics ($600 is a lot less than $1000). There's not much more innovation in sixaxis to make you want to buy it. What sells them right now is Blu-Ray and the expectation of exclusive titles. R&C and GT5 themselves are a system seller to me, and I'll be saving up for the first price cut. If they figure out a way to make the G25 compatible with the PS3? Holy shit, that's over $800. But it'd be worth it. I've always loved Sony's exclusive content. The same was what prompted me to buy an Xbox: exclusives. Same for Nintendo.

I know there are a lot of other factors involved in the decision making process, but to someone who enjoys gameplay just as much if not more than everything else (Live included), the exclusives are what drives a console buy.
 
[quote name='Spades22']Will this new "Elite" 360 eventual;ly be a necessity to play games or not? [/QUOTE]

Absolutely not. You'll always be able to play every game ever available on disc, and you could always upgrade the HDD later if you need it. 20GB is fine for XBLA and demos.

This is what I don't get about the 'they're screwing us!!!!' bitchers.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']You don't have to be tech savvy to see the difference in TVs these days. It's something that all major electronics stores (especially Fry's) does well: show them off. As long as you have at least 20/100 eyesight, the flat panel HDTVs will always look better than anything else currently available.[/QUOTE]
I don't know where you shop (we don't have Fry's on the east coast) but that's the last thing electronics stores know how to do. Everyone from those you would expect to know better like CompUSA, Circuit City and Best Buy down to the department stores like Target and Wal-Mart fails to display HDTV properly. It's always a wall of HDTVs showing SD material off one crappy coax split a dozen times to go into each TV. It's horrible. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen a display HDTV showing any sort of HD content at all.
 
Your stores suck then. Even Wal-mart does a half-decent job most of the time. Driven in Circuit City usually looks really good, even though it's on multiple sets (haven't seen any coax - hell, my dad's Samsung doesn't even have coax).

And Atlanta does qualify as east coast.
 
[quote name='OGHowie']I'm willing to bet that MGS4 is going to come out on 360 in some point in time anyways. The cost of production has to be forcing companies to go multi-platform.[/QUOTE]


Craps amighty...here we go again. Don't hold your breath. That same logic would say Halo 3 is coming out for the Wii and PS3. I'm sure the cost of *that* is pretty high as well.

Sony didn't become one of the largest electronics manufacturers by shear luck. Despite the much publicized mistakes of the PS3 launch, they kinda know what they are doing as a corporate entity. If Konami felt that porting MGS4 to the 360 would help cover their costs, you really think Sony would not simply attempt to help defray the costs a bit? MGS4 is their Halo 3. They are likely banking on it to move a lot of systems (I personally have no need for a PS3 until its release. When that day comes, goodbye sunlight for a week). There is no other game synonymous with the PS brand like MGS (Well okay Final Fantasy). Ever since MGS turned into such a gaming phenomena (Its damn near a cult), Sony knew it could not lose its exclusivity, and it most likely won't. (Where is the XBOX or GC MGS3?)

The preceding message was not posted by a "fanboy". I have neither a 360 nor a PS3, nor a Wii. I plan on having all three at some point and could not give two squirts of monkey pee about arguing which is better. I just want to argue some common sense.
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']EBgames employees are saying they have the prices for two SKUs, one at $230 and one at $480.

If the $230 doesn't have a HD, I'm pissed.[/QUOTE]

Well there is no way the premium is going to be $230. The $480 system would never sell then.
 
[quote name='Spades22']Will this new "Elite" 360 eventual;ly be a necessity to play games or not? I mean I got a regular 360, sealed, sitting right here and I'm not sure if I should just sell it and wait for the Elite or just keep it...but I mean if eventually they'll make games so large I NEED the extra space...no point in spending money to upgrade later.

How much is the larger 120GB drive or w/e separately?[/QUOTE]

Well MS has stated that the core without any hard drive will be able to play all games. So the premium will be fine for gaming. Yes if you are going to download a lot of movies or tv shows the new sytem would be better.
 
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