DSi Gen. Discussion & Info

is there any chance that we'll be able to buy these downloadable games with the old ds lite? that's the biggest reason to buy the dsi for me.

though i do have to admit, 180 seems a little steep.
 
[quote name='buttle']is there any chance that we'll be able to buy these downloadable games with the old ds lite? that's the biggest reason to buy the dsi for me.

though i do have to admit, 180 seems a little steep.[/QUOTE]

Keep in mind, as a reference point, the DS Lite costs 16,800 yen ($159.00) in Japan.
 
[quote name='utopianmachine']
Anyone know what the "i" in DSi stands for?[/quote]

I'm thinking DS inhanced

and

DSi as pronounced DeeSee

As for thinking of upgrading my lite... meh... the software or games would really have to prove it.... I'll wait till it's here before deciding.
 
One problem I see with DSi shop is how will they deal with M rated titles? Since retail stores will sell Nintendo Points to anyone (including minors), will Nintendo block all M rated games from it? Maybe even Teen rated games also.
 
[quote name='laaj']One problem I see with DSi shop is how will they deal with M rated titles? Since retail stores will sell Nintendo Points to anyone (including minors), will Nintendo block all M rated games from it? Maybe even Teen rated games also.[/QUOTE]

Parental control settings, just like on the Wii. Outside of that, nothing, just as it should be.
 
I dont think so. Nintendo rates things and puts them up. That's their stance. I think they have their own rating system or something. I can't remember where I read that but it was somewhere.
 
[quote name='shinryuu']One camera is 3MP, the other .3MP. [/quote]

Again, where is this posted? People here keep saying this, but I can not find anything legit that says it. I posted this link:
http://www.dsfanboy.com/2008/10/02/nintendo-announces-nintendo-dsi/
where it says
Comes with an external 0.3 Megapixel camera (for 640 x 480 pixel pictures) and a VGA camera located on the hinge, directed towards the user. You'll be able to edit pictures using the touchscreen.
Click to expand...

So once again, can you - or anybody point to a legit site that says it has a 3mp AND a .3mp camera.........

Don;t get me wrong, I would *love* for it to have a 3mp camera - I am just not seeing the proof it will have it.
 
[quote name='fuss']Again, where is this posted? People here keep saying this, but I can not find anything legit that says it. I posted this link:
http://www.dsfanboy.com/2008/10/02/nintendo-announces-nintendo-dsi/
where it says


So once again, can you - or anybody point to a legit site that says it has a 3mp AND a .3mp camera.........

Don;t get me wrong, I would *love* for it to have a 3mp camera - I am just not seeing the proof it will have it.[/QUOTE]

This is legit. Lots of news so understandable you missed it. Things and videos are still being updated right now. The site for DSi shows it. And Reggie himself the president of Nintendo of America talked about the two cameras.

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/689772/Exclusive_XPlay_Reggie_FilsAime_Interview.html
edit: 2 minutes 20 second mark Dan Hsu talks about it. And Reggie shows it off personally at the 7 minute mark.
 
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[quote name='cletus']I am disappointed they decided to take out the GBA slot.[/QUOTE]

But it confirms remakes of Pokemon Gold and Silver.
 
no it doesn't. Not having a GBA slot will hurt them and people will still resort to buying used DSL to get to play GBA games which is still a huge part of the DS experience.

I probably missed this in 6 pages but

why the fuck is it called DSi? Did they mean iDS? or were they afraid of Apple suing? The 'i' is clealy ipod inspired and the japanese go crazy for anything with 'i' in the name.


my cash is still going to the new psp3000 :):):):)
 
I don't think DSi will be easy to hack even with the SD card slot like many people here think. Nintendo could have made it so it is impossible to boot DS/DSi games from SD slot. Plus they could have put the firmware on some chip which can't be modified. Which means only way to hack the DSi would be to desolder the firmware chip from the circuit board and solder in a hacked chip.
 
Great, less charge held, brilliant. And no GBA support. So, need two systems. Oh that's right. We're to rebuy our GBA games, and screw saved games. Who wants their old Pokemon anyway? Somehow, I get the feeling this will cost almost as much as a Wii.

Thanks, but no thanks.
 
[quote name='pete5883']It'll be impossible for about a week.[/quote]

We'll see. Sony's PSP problem was that they put the firmware on a memory which could be overwritten. Nintendo won't make the same mistake. One down side is no firmware updates ever (because it can't be overwritten) to stop piracy.
 
[quote name='laaj']We'll see. Sony's PSP problem was that they put the firmware on a memory which could be overwritten. Nintendo won't make the same mistake. One down side is no firmware updates ever (because it can't be overwritten) to stop piracy.[/QUOTE]

The fact the DS is popular means any protection is pointless. People will not bother to "hack" things that are undesirable (and in some cases people do those too). There's a greater interest in hacking this than some other systems.

I'm not even sure why there is so much discussion about piracy on this thing. Who cares? For the people who want to hack the DS, it's pretty easy already. For the rest of you, it doesn't matter.
 
[quote name='opportunity777']The fact the DS is popular means any protection is pointless. People will not bother to "hack" things that are undesirable (and in some cases people do those too). There's a greater interest in hacking this than some other systems.

I'm not even sure why there is so much discussion about piracy on this thing. Who cares? For the people who want to hack the DS, it's pretty easy already. For the rest of you, it doesn't matter.[/quote]

Piracy is killing the PSP. Oh and I agree with the fact that DSi will get hacked. Just pointing out it might not be easy as DS and PSP. Which will keep away all but the hardcore pirates and "homebrewers"
 
[quote name='opportunity777']The fact the DS is popular means any protection is pointless. People will not bother to "hack" things that are undesirable (and in some cases people do those too). There's a greater interest in hacking this than some other systems.

I'm not even sure why there is so much discussion about piracy on this thing. Who cares? For the people who want to hack the DS, it's pretty easy already. For the rest of you, it doesn't matter.[/quote]

true, but there are always people who wish to hack it for the home brew effect rather then just the piracy aspect of it.

With a touch of better hardware as offered in this new DSi a Linux based DS on the go might not be half bad especially with the use of a SD slot. Now granted a hand held Linux based gaming system may not offer the bells and whistles of the full desktop OS but will still be nice to see as a other OS rather then the DS system menu may offer more of a open source playground.
 
They seem to be integrating some kind of DS on TV player. If that's for all games and not just a couple that would be cool.

The main thing i'm excited about though is the Gameboy Virtual Console. I'd love to be able to buy and play the origial Mario Land since i've never played it. And a couple other things as well. Of course I'd love to see them put Neo Geo/SNES/etc.. games on their as well.

Being able to play VC games on Wii or DSi would increase the value for a lot of people.
 
Has Nintendo even officially announced that VC, GB and GBC games will be available for the DSi yet? I feel like everyone (mostly the gaming press) has completely jumped the gun here.

How on Earth are we going to be able to play N64 games on the DSi assuming they come out on the DS VC? Super Mario 64 DS broke my heart. Maybe they won't be transferrable at all?
 
[quote name='DQT']Has Nintendo even officially announced that VC, GB and GBC games will be available for the DSi yet? I feel like everyone (mostly the gaming press) has completely jumped the gun here.

How on Earth are we going to be able to play N64 games on the DSi assuming they come out on the DS VC? Super Mario 64 DS broke my heart. Maybe they won't be transferrable at all?[/QUOTE]

A lot of people had no trouble with Mario 64 DS. I myself found it better then the original control was, and I believe Kevin over at Gonintendo thought the controls were perfect as well.

It might be the stylus. I myself used my palm pilots stylus which is much bigger.

Anyway, they've announced a DS store and the ability to buy applications. So it is jumping the gun a bit. But they do have emulators for stuff on DS like Neo Geo for homebrew so it is possible. With the success of Virtual Console I don't think it's that much to assume.

edit:
The big one for me though is
"- apps will cost free/200/500/800 points."
from the press conference. I took that to mean 200 points for Gameboy 500 for Gameboy Color and 800 for Gameboy Advance. It is assuming though but I think it's safe to do so. Makes the most sense
 
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200 points for GB games would be awesome assuming the releases are fairly frequent.

Unlike most of the internet (from what I've seen) I'm actually pretty psyched about the DSi. I can't see myself importing one but barring horrible problems with the JP version, I may well get one at the US launch.
 
[quote name='utopianmachine']I'm thinking I want to import this thing. I'm just curious if it'll work here flawlessly.[/QUOTE]

Should work just fine. The games are region free and the SD cards/slots are universal.

I don't really see any reason to upgrade. It's $180 for a slightly larger screen (and probably better in some ways) and some cameras and it's a bit smaller. It's basically trying to be an all in one device but seeing as how archaic Nintendo's implementation of technology has been thus far, I doubt it'll be a useful device.

I kinda like having both a DS and GBA in one so I'll actually miss that GBA slot.
 
Have they said how much onboard memory there is?

Right now I'm thinking I won't get one immediately, but I'll probably upgrade eventually. I don't really use the GBA slot, so I'm not really concerned about it.
 
Meh. Not worth the upgrade for me. The key feature would be the the SD card, but a flashcart--which can do almost everything mentioned above (apps, better wifi, mp3, video etc.)--for $50 would solve that problem rather than re buying the whole damn thing thats not even going to have next gen games. and lol@camera. But this should be a good purchase for those of you who still have the old silver DS.
 
I don't think people realize what the DSi really is about. Of course the camera isn't going to be fantastic. The whole point of the camera and the SD slot are to throw more features that can be used for gameplay.

Was the DS microphone top of the line? No. It was a new way to interact with game. The camera and music capabilities are intended to be used in games, just like the mic. Nintendo has said that themselves. My problem is Nintendo may have just fractured their DS audience. Do developers develop for the DS or the DSi? They can do one of three things:

They just ignore the DSi features to sell to everybody.
They can release DSi only games.
They can tack on features that are optional if the player happens to have a DSi which won't justify buying a new system for.

I also worried they're going to release a killer app for the online store that I won't be able to play. (Pokemon GS remake?)
 
Any of you thinking with SD card slot there could finally be multi-cart DSi games? Save file can be stored on SD card at the Cart #1's end and be moved to second cart. Killer app for this could be: Final Fantasy VII. Negative side about this will be the costs. It could be around $50-60 range, but Square-Enix just might be crazy enough to make this happen.
 
[quote name='laaj']Any of you thinking with SD card slot there could finally be multi-cart DS/DSi game? Save file can be stored on SD card at the Cart #1's end and be moved to second cart. Killer app for this could be: Final Fantasy VII. Negative side about this will be the costs. It could be around $50-60 range.[/QUOTE]

I doubt this is required. When you compress a game down to DS screen sizes and use better audio technology, I'm guessing you could get the total required memory down to a fraction of what it used to be.

I don't know how big DS carts can get, nor do I know how much it increases the price to have bigger ones. I'm just hazarding a guess that with FF7, for example, I'd think you could get away with a one-cart game.

It was 4 discs, yeah? But how much of that was redundant data that is the same across all four? I bet once you eliminate that, you get to, oh, 1.5-2 GBs of data. And with audio and video compression I bet you can cut that in half.

But really, someone with better technical knowledge than me could answer this better than I could.
 
i aint drinkin the koolade. one handheld is plenty i cant imagine anyone wasting more money on another just cause the screen is .5 bigger and its got 2 camers in it and oh yeah an sd slot and onboard memory. oh yeah and its smaller.when the hell i gamers become like women ? people collect nintencrap the way women collect purses and shoes. gaming should be about the game now how many lame things you can add to something while not really changing or improving anything. and how sad is it the ds has better games on it than the wii? just like the gc was my last nintendo console the ds light will be my final handheld.
 
[quote name='lokizz']i aint drinkin the koolade. one handheld is plenty i cant imagine anyone wasting more money on another just cause the screen is .5 bigger and its got 2 camers in it and oh yeah an sd slot and onboard memory. oh yeah and its smaller.when the hell i gamers become like women ? people collect nintencrap the way women collect purses and shoes. gaming should be about the game now how many lame things you can add to something while not really changing or improving anything. and how sad is it the ds has better games on it than the wii? just like the gc was my last nintendo console the ds light will be my final handheld.[/QUOTE]


Very mature insightful commentary. Thank you for your thoughts.
 
[quote name='Strell'][quote name='laaj']Any of you thinking with SD card slot there could finally be multi-cart DSi games? Save file can be stored on SD card at the Cart #1's end and be moved to second cart. Killer app for this could be: Final Fantasy VII. Negative side about this will be the costs. It could be around $50-60 range, but Square-Enix just might be crazy enough to make this happen.[/quote]I doubt this is required. When you compress a game down to DS screen sizes and use better audio technology, I'm guessing you could get the total required memory down to a fraction of what it used to be.

I don't know how big DS carts can get, nor do I know how much it increases the price to have bigger ones. I'm just hazarding a guess that with FF7, for example, I'd think you could get away with a one-cart game.

It was 4 discs, yeah? But how much of that was redundant data that is the same across all four? I bet once you eliminate that, you get to, oh, 1.5-2 GBs of data. And with audio and video compression I bet you can cut that in half.

But really, someone with better technical knowledge than me could answer this better than I could.[/quote]

Now that I thought about this more, there doesn't even have to be multi-cart games. Company like Square-Enix could make a RPG series (something like a trilogy) for DSi and use the same save file for all. Episodic RPG (Mass Effect like) if you will.
 
I don't know... After being thoroughly disappointed with Nintendo's internet approach (DS Browser and friend codes), I really am not up for a handheld that tries to mimic what a laptop and/or phone can do better, other than play games.

As of late, the games that have been released over the past year just feel so-so. I guess my initial love for the DS is dying out.

I really think that this won't catch on, at least in the states. The PSP had a couple similar features and I rarely see people carry around their PSPs for something other than its games. Though I have to admit, back then I always wanted a gameboy camera... looking back though, it is just too gimmicky.

I say they just put out a totally new handheld system seperate from the DS. More like a DS2 or the next in line for Gameboy.
 
Yeah I don't have a cell phone except for a shitty prepaid one for when I need to call someone which is never. I DO however use my Zune every day I walk to class, and on my radio show. I really think this here is a good idea personally (well for me). I always like to have a camera on hand for epic shit, but I don't own one and if it could just save to SD like boom, plus with the game player and mp3 player, I am interested since my zune is with me constantly and I can replace it with this.
 
I'll probably still carry my MP3 player and real good camera for important things and events but yeah I agree.

Whenever I go out I usually have my DS and PSP in my car in case I get a free moment to game, and leave my camera home. The camera will probably see use out of me for this. Especially with the combine faces feature and such that I could use at parties. I would actually use that.

But the applications, and games other then the two brain age games announced are what i'm interested in the most for the DSi.

I think regardless of what people say they will probably get one eventually. I myself can easily hand mine down to my brother as a present and get value for saving money that way that I otherwise would have spent, so i'm definetly getting one.

It's not coming here for over a year though, and it's important to note this is mainly for Japan since sales have slowed down there. Here in America and Europe the DS lite is still selling like crazy.
 
[quote name='Strell']I doubt this is required. When you compress a game down to DS screen sizes and use better audio technology, I'm guessing you could get the total required memory down to a fraction of what it used to be.

I don't know how big DS carts can get, nor do I know how much it increases the price to have bigger ones. I'm just hazarding a guess that with FF7, for example, I'd think you could get away with a one-cart game.

It was 4 discs, yeah? But how much of that was redundant data that is the same across all four? I bet once you eliminate that, you get to, oh, 1.5-2 GBs of data. And with audio and video compression I bet you can cut that in half.

But really, someone with better technical knowledge than me could answer this better than I could.[/QUOTE]

1. The projected maximum size of a DS cart is 4Gbits (512MB), though the biggest produced so far has been 2Gbits (256MB).
2. You are correct about FFVII, when studying the data on the discs, it was found that the only difference between the three discs was the FMVs used, the game data was the same. Not only did Square have to produce it for a TV screen, video compression was also very poor compared to today. They could either compress it using today's technology like Capcom did with RE DS, or they could just remake the FMVs using the Advent Children character designs.
 
[quote name='lokizz']i aint drinkin the koolade. one handheld is plenty i cant imagine anyone wasting more money on another just cause the screen is .5 bigger and its got 2 camers in it and oh yeah an sd slot and onboard memory. oh yeah and its smaller.when the hell i gamers become like women ? people collect nintencrap the way women collect purses and shoes. gaming should be about the game now how many lame things you can add to something while not really changing or improving anything. and how sad is it the ds has better games on it than the wii? just like the gc was my last nintendo console the ds light will be my final handheld.[/QUOTE]

Ok, no posting drunk or stoned.
 
[quote name='Strell']I doubt this is required. When you compress a game down to DS screen sizes and use better audio technology, I'm guessing you could get the total required memory down to a fraction of what it used to be.

I don't know how big DS carts can get, nor do I know how much it increases the price to have bigger ones. I'm just hazarding a guess that with FF7, for example, I'd think you could get away with a one-cart game.

It was 4 discs, yeah? But how much of that was redundant data that is the same across all four? I bet once you eliminate that, you get to, oh, 1.5-2 GBs of data. And with audio and video compression I bet you can cut that in half.

But really, someone with better technical knowledge than me could answer this better than I could.[/QUOTE]


Oh, it can be far smaller than that. We dissected this a few times when FFVII as a download for the PSP, IIRC, was a repeating topic.

1) Redundant audio tracks comprising a major portion of each CD.

2) Audio was Red Book AKA CD Audio. No compression whatsoever. In AAC or WMA the FFVII soundtrack could likely be brought in under 100 MB at good quality.

3) The code base and primary art assets (overworld, locations accessible throught most of the game, battle art, especially summons animation sequences) for the main game engine was also redundant acrosss all of the discs. A few megabytes per disc but every bit counts. A megabyte saved is a big win for a DS game.

4) Video compression was wretched. New sequences using higher quality in a modern codec will likely consume less ROM space for the whole game than was used for a single disc of the original.

5) FFIV DS, while not entirely comparable, has many FFVII-like upgrades to the original and is of fairly comparable length. It comes in well under a gigabit aka 128 MB. Torrents for the games are actually under 90 MB.

It seems pretty likely that a DS FFVII, including some improvements on the original, could come in under 256 MB or a 2 GB cart. Expensive as DS games go but less so over time as smaller process nodes are used for mask ROM production. If Square continues producing FF remakes for the DS, a 2 GB cart should be doable for a $40 game by the time they get to FFVII. A bigger question be whether a new handheld platform would be the target by that time.

An interesting counterpoint: Could a good FFVII remake with substantial quality improvements be brought in small enough for XBLA/PSN?
 
There's one reason I'll get this: WPA2 support. I don't know how you guys get online with DS but I hate having to change my router settings just to go online with my DS.
 
[quote name='laaj']There's one reason I'll get this: WPA2 support. I don't know how you guys get online with DS but I hate having to change my router settings just to go online with my DS.[/QUOTE]

There is a cheap immediate solution. Wireless routers practically come out of cereal boxes these days. I even have a few I got for nearly free after rebate (sales tax still applied) just to have spares.

Pick up one of those cheapo WiFi routers and set it up as an access point on your main router. This essentially makes it a wireless bridge and is supported by most models being sold today. Use no security or the minimal WEP supported by the DS. Then, only give it power/connection when you actually need it for the DS. That way your exposure to scanners is minimized.
 
[quote name='epobirs']There is a cheap immediate solution. Wireless routers practically come out of cereal boxes these days. I even have a few I got for nearly free after rebate (sales tax still applied) just to have spares.

Pick up one of those cheapo WiFi routers and set it up as an access point on your main router. This essentially makes it a wireless bridge and is supported by most models being sold today. Use no security or the minimal WEP supported by the DS. Then, only give it power/connection when you actually need it for the DS. That way your exposure to scanners is minimized.[/quote]

Small problem with that is my main router is wireless. ALL my computers are connected using Wi-Fi. There is only one ethernet port on the router that I use for my printer. If you're wondering what kind of crap router has only one port, it is Apple.
 
[quote name='laaj']Small problem with that is my main router is wireless. ALL my computers are connected using Wi-Fi. There is only one ethernet port on the router that I use for my printer. If you're wondering what kind of crap router has only one port, it is Apple.[/QUOTE]

You use an Airport Express as your main router?

Even the old ass original Airport has 3 ethernet ports.
 
[quote name='Zing']You use an Airport Express as your main router?

Even the old ass original Airport has 3 ethernet ports.[/quote]

Airport Extreme. UFO shaped one
 
Do you think they will release a device for dslites that would give it the ability to access the proposed download store? I'm thinking something along the lines of a unit that plugs into the GBA slot and contains some internal memory or sd slot.

The user base of current ds owners is massive. Do they honestly expect everyone to go out and buy a DSi? For the relatively low cost of developing said addon device they could increase the earning potential of the online store by an order of magnitude or more. Otherwise I think that the store will suffer from a slow rollout as people would have to shell out $180 for access. With the economy going the way it is, it might be a tall order.

Some comments on the device in general- I'm not really impressed. Bigger screens but no increase in resolution (there was no practical way of increasing the resolution anyway without introducing severe compatibility issues) is of limited benefit. Especially as the resolution of the device is already pretty poor by today standards anyways.

Browsing on a screen that small will be awful. Browsing on the PSP was passable if a little slow- they expect a good experience from something with a 66mhz processor? My take is that its browser will be largely useless. I have no real interest in either camera as I take pics with a DSLR and therebis no way thatni will get that kind of functionality on a multi-device anytime soon if ever.

But I will say that the GBA slot can go. It is more than last-gen tech and time to let it go. I have GBA games I still want to play too-but do we really need another device to do it on? If you want to play GBA games I'm sure you will have little difficulty funding used hardware to do it on- especially since there are what like 7 or so devices that can play GBA games. Personally I have a GBMicro as well as a dslite. But I don't think I will be picking up a DSi anytime soon if ever. I think for a lot of people the quality and quantity of download content will determine if it is worth it to upgrade. And I don't mean getting GB/GBC/GBA games on download- I'd like to see some really good new stuff too.

Anyways enough of my rambling.
 
Do you think they will release a device for dslites that would give it the ability to access the proposed download store?
Click to expand...

The DSi will not IMMEDIATELY replace the Lite.

Key word: replace.
 
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