DSi Gen. Discussion & Info

Uh-oh.

[quote name='http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=20525']Nintendo now says that software released specifically for the DSi will be region-locked, restricting gamers from downloading and loading games intended for other regions.

"DSi is region locked because DSi embeds net communication functionality within itself, and we are intending to provide net services specifically tailored for each region," said a statement given to UK consumer website CVG.

The statement reasons that region-locking its upcoming DS hardware upgrade is necessary as the new system will feature parental control features which will be dependent on each region's unique age limit.

The DSi, however, will be able to play standard Nintendo software from any region, similar to the original Nintendo DS model and the Nintendo DS Lite. Users will also be able to browse the Internet on their DSi from anywhere in there world and exchange photos with friends in other countries.

The statement runs contrary to recent comments from Nintendo of America's Sales and Marketing EVP Cammie Dunaway, who told Wired's GameLife blog, "I believe that just as you can currently buy a DS in Japan and use it here in the U.S., that you should be able to do that with DSi... I carry around my Ice Blue DS because I like the color, and I could find it in Japan and couldn’t find it here."

Further demonstrating the company's uncertainty over the DSi's region-lockout status, when asked by G4TV whether the forthcoming handheld will be able to play titles from other countries, NOA COO and president Reggie Fils-Aimé said, "To be honest I don’t know for sure, I will look into it."

According to recent indications from the company, the Nintendo DSi will launch on November 1st in Japan, after April 2009 in the U.S., in spring 2009 in Europe, and in the second half of 2009 in Australia.[/quote]


I'm hoping this turns out to be false information, but otherwise I will be very disappointed.
 
So the games won't be region locked, but much like Wiiware and the VC the DS's versions of those will be locked to a region.

Then i'll just have to import the UK DSi then if this is true. At least that stuff will be in english.
 
Is that really surprising, looking at all of the online console stores so far? I don't think any of them allow you to access any other region's store without jumping through hoops.
 
the preorders on ebay are selling for $300+. Think it will worth the effort to buy from play asia and ncsx to resell during Xmas?
 
As long as the retail games aren't region-locked it isn't a deal breaker. I'm used to the heartbreak of watching tons of awesome games fill the Japanese VC while I can download Cruisin' USA and Milon's Secret Castle.

April is sooner than I was expecting, maybe I won't be getting one at or near the US launch.
 
[quote name='utopianmachine']Hm. So much for importing a DSi. At least I know it's coming in April. Not too long to wait.[/QUOTE]

Wait, what?

I thought they made it clear no earlier than this time next year. No?
 
[quote name='Ruahrc']Do you think they will release a device for dslites that would give it the ability to access the proposed download store? I'm thinking something along the lines of a unit that plugs into the GBA slot and contains some internal memory or sd slot. [/QUOTE]

No, they wont.

[quote name='Ruahrc']
The user base of current ds owners is massive. Do they honestly expect everyone to go out and buy a DSi? For the relatively low cost of developing said addon device they could increase the earning potential of the online store by an order of magnitude or more. Otherwise I think that the store will suffer from a slow rollout as people would have to shell out $180 for access. With the economy going the way it is, it might be a tall order.
[/QUOTE]

They must think enough will to give it a go. In Japan everyone has a DS, seemingly literally. This is a way to push more hardware, why give up a $180 sale with (lets say) $40 in profit, over a $30 cart with $15 dollars in profit.

[quote name='Ruahrc']
But I will say that the GBA slot can go. It is more than last-gen tech and time to let it go. I have GBA games I still want to play too-but do we really need another device to do it on? [/QUOTE]

I'm with you here, although it would be nice if Nintendo kept the SP in production a bit longer. It still seemed to sell fairly well.
 
Is the DSi region lock only for downloaded games or does that include physical carts? Non of the reports I read is making that distinction.
 
[quote name='laaj']Is the DSi region lock only for downloaded games or does that include physical carts? Non of the reports I read is making that distinction.[/QUOTE]

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=20525

The indications are that this will only apply to DSi-exclusive software. Thus the real question is, will Nintendo and/or third parties produce DSi-only titles on carts or solely as downloads? Working as a download only market makes it simple to ensure that software is only sold to units from the correct regions as this will be encoded in the firmware and presumably queried by the DSi Store.

If Nintendo is strongly intent on transitioning much of their business to online sales, the DSi would mark a very good place to do this by having an ample supply of retail DS software and newer products appearing solely as downloads.

This brings to mind SanDisk's initiative to sell audio content on MicroSD cards. Most of their audio players support MicroSD as expansion memory. Since a typical album, even in a high quality lossless format like FLAC, won't come close to consuming a card of 1 GB or greater capacity, users can fill the empty space with additional content of their choice. This may or may not achieve some success but it could point to how Nintendo might keep the retail channel happy. This is necessary since there is nowhere near enough profit in the base hardware to be worth a retailer's space and and trouble for selling the platform.

Imagine buying a DSi game at TRU. Rather than coming on a mask ROM cart, the box contains a 4 GB SD card. The game occupies only a small portion of its capacity with the rest beingavailable to store downloads. In this way retailers still get a piece of the lucrative software market while users are increasingly trained to make their game purchases online. A few high profile games are sold in this way to ensure strong retail sales while the bulk of the library is solely online.

Also, sales kiosks that will place a game on a card for a customer can be another in-store venue. This is helpful for a market where much of the customer base is too young to have a credit card for online shopping. So the brick & mortar folks still get a piece of the action.
 
[quote name='laaj']Small problem with that is my main router is wireless. ALL my computers are connected using Wi-Fi. There is only one ethernet port on the router that I use for my printer. If you're wondering what kind of crap router has only one port, it is Apple.[/QUOTE]

There is again a very simple solution. A switch. In fact, the cheapo router for the DS would likely have a four-port switch built-in. Plug the printer into the cheapo router and the cheapo router into the port on the Airport.

The downside of this is that you would need to leave the router active all of the time for the printer to access the network. But clever lad that I am, I've yet another trick up my sleeve.

Nearly all routers support MAC Address filtering. This refers to the unique numeric code embedded in the Media Access Controller of every Ethernet standard device. You can simply set this to exclude access to any device except your DS or anything else you want to admit that doesn't support decent security, like a visiting friend's DS.

(A game supporting online play or the DS Browser will display the MAC Address for your DS.)
 
For people concerned about peripherals that require the GBA slot, well, the old ones won't work but there is plenty of potential for new ones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital_card#SDIO

There exists a standard called SDIO for using the SD card slot as a peripheral bus. Unless Nintendo goes very cheap on their implementation, this should be supported on the DSi. Pretty much anything that has appeared previously on the DS would be doable this way. Heck, even a GBA slot could be implemented, although I doubt Nintendo itself would support that instead of pushing their online store for selling GBA and other existing games suitable for handheld use. (Lynx? Game Gear? Neo-Geo Pocket? C-64? Not Turbo Express though. Resolution too high.)
 
Ive read a lot of news on the DSi, but has anyone got confirmation that this thing is even more powerful then the DS Lite? Seems like its the same thing but with built in memory, so im curious of the DSWare games will work on the DS Lite. If they do, id pretty much have 0 interest in the DSi. If not, i might be interested in one. Also, is there anything you can do to make the D-Pad on the DS Lite any better? Im not happy at all with mine.
 
[quote name='epobirs']
Nearly all routers support MAC Address filtering. This refers to the unique numeric code embedded in the Media Access Controller of every Ethernet standard device. You can simply set this to exclude access to any device except your DS or anything else you want to admit that doesn't support decent security, like a visiting friend's DS.[/quote]

I know what MAC address is and those can be spoofed.
 
[quote name='laaj']I know what MAC address is and those can be spoofed.[/quote]

true but the time involved with spoofing a MAC address most of the time the intruder will just move to another location if others are available. grabbing packets for keys are sometimes easier then ones for MAC addresses
 
[quote name='epobirs']For people concerned about peripherals that require the GBA slot, well, the old ones won't work but there is plenty of potential for new ones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital_card#SDIO

There exists a standard called SDIO for using the SD card slot as a peripheral bus. Unless Nintendo goes very cheap on their implementation, this should be supported on the DSi. Pretty much anything that has appeared previously on the DS would be doable this way. Heck, even a GBA slot could be implemented, although I doubt Nintendo itself would support that instead of pushing their online store for selling GBA and other existing games suitable for handheld use. (Lynx? Game Gear? Neo-Geo Pocket? C-64? Not Turbo Express though. Resolution too high.)[/QUOTE]

It sounds like an interesting idea, but the question of added cost is always a big one for Nintendo when making decisions like this. I mean, heck, they don't support DVD movies for the Wii, they support AAC instead of MP3 and PNGs instead of JPEGs for the DSi, due to the licensing fees that are saddled with DVD movie, JPEG, and MP3 support. If it is cheap enough to add SDIO capability and support the peripherals, then yes, it could mean that the SD card slot could serve as a new peripheral port.
 
[quote name='Cao Cao']It sounds like an interesting idea, but the question of added cost is always a big one for Nintendo when making decisions like this. I mean, heck, they don't support DVD movies for the Wii, they support AAC instead of MP3 and PNGs instead of JPEGs for the DSi, due to the licensing fees that are saddled with DVD movie, JPEG, and MP3 support. If it is cheap enough to add SDIO capability and support the peripherals, then yes, it could mean that the SD card slot could serve as a new peripheral port.[/QUOTE]

Yep, Nintendo is just totally out of touch on this stuff. They should just keep focusing on what they do well--games. Both their core franchises and the new casual shit.

When they try to do more, they just fuck it up. Online play is great, but not with friend codes for each game. Music play back may appeal to some people, but it needs to be mp3. Who uses AAC format? People who use iPods and iTunes exclusively. Those people aren't going to buy a DSi to listen to music when they already have a superior iPod.
 
[quote name='laaj']I know what MAC address is and those can be spoofed.[/QUOTE]


Anything can be spoofed. The question is whether it is worth the trouble for the potential rewards. I somehow doubt your home network presents such a temptation. The bigger issue is keeping neighbors and passersby from leeching your bandwidth. The simple preventative is too make it inconvenient rather than go to any great lengths for genuine security.
 
[quote name='epobirs']There is again a very simple solution. A switch. In fact, the cheapo router for the DS would likely have a four-port switch built-in. Plug the printer into the cheapo router and the cheapo router into the port on the Airport.

The downside of this is that you would need to leave the router active all of the time for the printer to access the network. But clever lad that I am, I've yet another trick up my sleeve.

Nearly all routers support MAC Address filtering. This refers to the unique numeric code embedded in the Media Access Controller of every Ethernet standard device. You can simply set this to exclude access to any device except your DS or anything else you want to admit that doesn't support decent security, like a visiting friend's DS.

(A game supporting online play or the DS Browser will display the MAC Address for your DS.)[/QUOTE]

Good idea.
I wish I lived next store to you, I would then proceed to walk over and kindly ask taht you show me how to get my wifimax to work on Vista for both the PS3 and Wii/DS.
 
Meh, it's not like it's difficult or time-consuming to convert from MP3 to AAC (It only takes a few seconds, and specs-wise, AAC is superior to MP3), and Nintendo will most likely include a conversion program as a disk/download, so function-wise, it really doesn't matter that it's AAC.
 
[quote name='Cao Cao']It sounds like an interesting idea, but the question of added cost is always a big one for Nintendo when making decisions like this. I mean, heck, they don't support DVD movies for the Wii, they support AAC instead of MP3 and PNGs instead of JPEGs for the DSi, due to the licensing fees that are saddled with DVD movie, JPEG, and MP3 support. If it is cheap enough to add SDIO capability and support the peripherals, then yes, it could mean that the SD card slot could serve as a new peripheral port.[/QUOTE]

I was raising that issue as a gesture to complete disclosure. The savings for Nintendo per unit would be measured in pennies. considerably less than a DVD playback license. And the payoff in peripheral capability is well worth it, especially since there would be no other option. If there were no license-free alternative to JPG or MP3, Nintendo would be using those. But there is and they don't. That doesn't eliminate the potential for those formats being supported via a consumer purchase of the appropriate license.

DVD playback on Wii isn't a win for Nintendo because they aren't in the DVD business. OTOH, SDIO is very much a win for Nintendo because it allows the continuing use of add-on hardware in their portable games. (Here's an idea. A SDIO plug-in that turns the DSi into an interactive Wii-mote.)

Aside from the freedom from licensing costs, there are very good technical reasons for choosing AAC over MP3. It was designed to directly address some serious flaws in MP3 and to take advantage of far superior algorithms that had been devised since MP3 was created in the 80s. It isn't as though there aren't vast number of AAC files in consumers' possession already. It is the native format of the Apple iPod andand iPhone, the Sony Walkmans, SanDisk Sansas, Microsoft Zune, Sony Ericsson phones, Nokia phones, and many more. (It is the Apple DRM that limits protected files to being played on Apple hardware.)

The DSi will potentially be the first portable music player for many children. Getting them started on AAC instead of the badly aging MP3 is a good thing to do. It isn't as though dozens of transcoding apps that will convert MP3 files to AAC didn't already exist. Except for DRMed files, nobody with an MP3 library is more than a few hours away from having it all in AAC.
 
[quote name='Snake2715']Good idea.
I wish I lived next store to you, I would then proceed to walk over and kindly ask taht you show me how to get my wifimax to work on Vista for both the PS3 and Wii/DS.[/QUOTE]

Wifimax?
 
[quote name='Cao Cao']Meh, it's not like it's difficult or time-consuming to convert from MP3 to AAC (It only takes a few seconds, and specs-wise, AAC is superior to MP3), and Nintendo will most likely include a conversion program as a disk/download, so function-wise, it really doesn't matter that it's AAC.[/QUOTE]

But why would anyone bother? If you have your files in AAC, then your going to listen to them on your iPod which is more portable and will almost assuredly have better sound quality and interface than the DSi.

If you're files are in MP3, you probably already have a good mp3 player. I know there's no way I'd use the DS over my Creative Zen Vision M. Especially if I have to convert files. If you're just doing an album or two, it's no big deal time wise. But why should I bother when my Zen already has 300+ albums and 4000+ songs on it in MP3 format?

I just see this as being nothing other than a feature for kids who want a DS and who's parents won't buy them an iPod or other MP3 player. But it's not a surprise as lately is seems all Nintendo's decisions are driven by appealing to either kids are casual gamers. I ditched the Wii early this year, DS still has enough games coming for me to keep it around, but it's pretty much decided that the DS Lite will be the last Nintendo product I own.
 
[quote name='epobirs']For people concerned about peripherals that require the GBA slot, well, the old ones won't work but there is plenty of potential for new ones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital_card#SDIO

There exists a standard called SDIO for using the SD card slot as a peripheral bus. Unless Nintendo goes very cheap on their implementation, this should be supported on the DSi. Pretty much anything that has appeared previously on the DS would be doable this way. Heck, even a GBA slot could be implemented, although I doubt Nintendo itself would support that instead of pushing their online store for selling GBA and other existing games suitable for handheld use. (Lynx? Game Gear? Neo-Geo Pocket? C-64? Not Turbo Express though. Resolution too high.)[/QUOTE]

While interesting this isnt very feasible, the GBA slot would then be on the side of the system and the SD slot would become support for your hand. Would likely break the SD card.
 
[quote name='foltzie']They must think enough will to give it a go. In Japan everyone has a DS, seemingly literally. This is a way to push more hardware, why give up a $180 sale with (lets say) $40 in profit, over a $30 cart with $15 dollars in profit.[/QUOTE]

The thing is though that the real money to be made is in the downloadable content. Very little overhead (i.e. no manufacturing costs, only bandwidth) and if you're porting old GBA or SNES, etc. games to the DLC then there is relatively little development cost too. Why block out those millions and millions of current DS owners from buying stuff at the store and force them to pay 180 to gain that ability? And it is much more palatable for a current DS owner to buy a $30 device than a $180 device to get access to DLC, which means more people would be willing to give it a try. Nintendo is very good at minimizing hardware production costs when compared to Sony or MS (even to the point where they turn profit on hardware sales) but I still think that the vart majority of their profits has always been and always will be in selling software for their platforms.

You're probably right in that they will never do this though as if the current gen DS units had the capability to get to the online store then there is precious little impetus to buy a DSi, only music functionality and a couple of cameras. Maybe there will be some "killer app" games in the future to take advantage of the new hardware but as it stands...

Ruahrc
 
http://gonintendo.com/?p=58476

The Opera CEO confirmed that the DSi will indeed have more RAM than the DS Lite. It was a rather obvious change when they announced that the browser would be included in the DSi, but it's always nice to have a confirmation.
 
[quote name='Cao Cao']http://gonintendo.com/?p=58476

The Opera CEO confirmed that the DSi will indeed have more RAM than the DS Lite. It was a rather obvious change when they announced that the browser would be included in the DSi, but it's always nice to have a confirmation.[/quote]

Hope it has some support for Java and Flash, that was my biggest gripe with the DS Browser....
 
[quote name='xycury']Hope it has some support for Java and Flash, that was my biggest gripe with the DS Browser....[/QUOTE]

I dont know about Java, but unless Adobe has released the more specs for Flash recently it wont be any more advanced than the Wii version of Flash.
 
Wii points don't carry over to the dsi, how sad.
I guess that will go for games to and I can count on not playing alien soldier on my ds.
So sad.
 
[quote name='RelentlessRolento']interesting...

http://www.siliconera.com/2008/10/07/nintendos-dsi-camera-used-for-scanning-trading-cards/[/QUOTE]

As much as I like Nintendo trying new things all the time, I wish for a second they could just....be happy with the stuff they've already done.

This sounds eerily like e-Reader: Part Deux and I'm still annoyed from the first run around that left me with no happy ending and the whore walking out the exit with my fiddy bones.

I keep hoping they'll just stop. At some point everything will have a camera, and voice recognition software, and a microphone to make that shit work, and a keyboard, and a motion sensor, and a gyro, and a gyroscope, and a touchpad, and an LCD screen, and a second camera, and will transform into a mech that I will use to battle the forces of planet Xellion.

Go back and finish the SMB3 cards before you try this again, Nintendo.
 
[quote name='RelentlessRolento']interesting...

http://www.siliconera.com/2008/10/07/nintendos-dsi-camera-used-for-scanning-trading-cards/[/QUOTE]

That's actually for a QR scanner and probably not cards. I've seen things like that in the Dallas Morning News and some other places actually so things like it are here in the States.
Like a lot of things Nintendo does this is probably mainly for Japan.

Remember the DSi is mainly for Japan and not America. I myself am going to get one because the 300% or whatever speaker volume increase, bigger screen, DS ware store, and camera interest me enough that I think it's a worthy upgrade.

But much like people with the DS Lite, or the GBA with the brighter screen did, you don't have to upgrade.

http://tinycartridge.com/post/53481271/dsis-potential-as-a-qr-code-scanner

[quote name='banpeikun']can we change the thread title until there is more breaking news?[/QUOTE]

Done.
 
http://gonintendo.com/?p=58476
In case you missed that Opera interview the CEO confirmed some new information. In addition to internal memory, the DS will have more RAM as well.

He also confirmed that the Opera Browser integrated into DSi will use it more efficiently than the current browser.

So those Japanese games that used the GBA ram expansion cart like Band Brothers, etc... will work with the DSi.
 
[quote name='j.elles']http://gonintendo.com/?p=58476
In case you missed that Opera interview the CEO confirmed some new information. In addition to internal memory, the DS will have more RAM as well.

He also confirmed that the Opera Browser integrated into DSi will use it more efficiently than the current browser.

So those Japanese games that used the GBA ram expansion cart like Band Brothers, etc... will work with the DSi.[/QUOTE]

No games used the RAM expansion cart. The first DBB used a read-only 8mbit GBA cart to store the expansion songs.
 
[quote name='j.elles']That's actually for a QR scanner and probably not cards. I've seen things like that in the Dallas Morning News and some other places actually so things like it are here in the States.
http://tinycartridge.com/post/53481271/dsis-potential-as-a-qr-code-scanner[/QUOTE]

oh wow, someone actually reads my strange ravings!

anyway, i hope that we hear some more about the DSi at TGS, but i doubt it, since Nintendo doesn't really have a first-party presence at the event.
 
am i the only one that thinks the DSi is the geh? i can't wait to take pictures of myself with the 0.3 megapixel camera!!! oh yay!
 
Region Lock and black borders = made of fail. But I'll still get one. It's smaller and has a camera, so it'll be the one that stays in my purse.
 
Why the fuck did they even bother to add like 10 pixels of resolution. The LCD panels must have been cheaper or something.
 
[quote name='guinaevere']So they can say it's larger than the last iteration.[/QUOTE]


It's 0.25 inches larger, wow!

Sarcasm aside, guinaevere hit the nail on the head. Most consumers don't care/won't notice that the screens are fundamentally the same, but rather that the system has a "larger screen" without realizing what the actual specs are. The one change I do like however is the fact that the system is matte and not glossy. Glossy electronics do look nice, but are so much easier to scratch up and collect fingerprints.

Sadly, I'll still probably end up getting one, just for the DSWare alone.
 
Didn't put it in the main post because I didnt think it was important. But actually according to hands on from everyone the DSi no longer glossy. Bozon from IGN said something about a Matte black feel and look for the one he was holding.

So I guess if the glossy fingerprint smudge thing was a problem for you that might be another reason to get this.
 
[quote name='j.elles']
So I guess if the glossy fingerprint smudge thing was a problem for you that might be another reason to get this.[/quote]

That's good news. Until I got a case for it, my DS was actually a much worse fingerprint magnet than any PSP I ever played.
 
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