Eddie Guerrero's wrestling topic (RIP 1967 - 2005)

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[quote name='Scorch'][Angle]'s absolutely one of, if not the best in the business right now.[/QUOTE]

That's true, but I would guess for Angle, his work isn't done if there is any debate in the matter. That is, to be *one* of the best is one thing, but if people still debate whether or not he's as good as Flair/Hart/younameit, then, if that article aptly describes the kind of pride that motivates Angle, he may feel he's not done enough. He wants there to be an undeniable "Angle" category above Flair, Hart, and the other greats.

I didn't pay much attention to Byte This; what did Hart do to be a dick?
 
[quote name='SevereTireDamage']Saucy Jack, that was an excellent article. What was the source?[/QUOTE]

I'm not too sure. I got it from a friend. I think he said it was from a Pittsburgh newspaper.

[quote name='mykevermin']That's true, but I would guess for Angle, his work isn't done if there is any debate in the matter. That is, to be *one* of the best is one thing, but if people still debate whether or not he's as good as Flair/Hart/younameit, then, if that article aptly describes the kind of pride that motivates Angle, he may feel he's not done enough. He wants there to be an undeniable "Angle" category above Flair, Hart, and the other greats.

I didn't pay much attention to Byte This; what did Hart do to be a dick?[/QUOTE]

In my eyes, Kurt Angle is one of the greatest of all time. However, I don't know if there is even a "best" of all time. It would be debated forever. I hope that Kurt realizes that he is indeed one of the greatest wrestlers of all time, and that he can be happy with that. His body is breaking down, and I don't want to see him end up bitter and paralyzed like Dynamite Kid or other great wrestlers.

On Byte This, Bret came off as arrogant and cocky. Since he is one of the greatest of all time, maybe you can let that slide. But Bret seemed like he doesn't care about his fans. After supporting him for all these years, it's a bit disheartening to say the least.

[quote name='RawisJericho']I decided to keep my Anthology set and I ordered the Hart DVD last night.[/QUOTE]

You did the right thing. Enjoy. :cool:
 
[quote name='Saucy Jack']In my eyes, Kurt Angle is one of the greatest of all time. However, I don't know if there is even a "best" of all time. It would be debated forever. I hope that Kurt realizes that he is indeed one of the greatest wrestlers of all time, and that he can be happy with that. His body is breaking down, and I don't want to see him end up bitter and paralyzed like Dynamite Kid or other great wrestlers.[/QUOTE]

Tell that to Kurt; he doesn't sound like the kind of person who will let reason and sense get in the way of what he wants to do. At least he simply wants to be the best wrestler ever, and not walk to the moon, or something like that.

I also think that, if WMXIX was his last match, Angle would lead a normal middle age and beyond; now, he'll be lucky to end up like Dynamite, and I mean that *very* sincerely.
 
Here is the Phil Mushnick article from today:

WRESTLE WITH THIS

November 20, 2005 -- WE'VE been writing it for more than 15 years, but we're going to try it one more time. And then we're going to try to do what the rest of the media does: we're going to ignore it.

After all, what's a dead pro wrestler, or two. Or 20. Or 80. They're only pro wrestlers; it's not as if they're real people.

While Bud Selig and Donald Fehr resisted Congress's efforts to expose and eliminate steroid use, they should be grateful that Congress, and, by extension America, gives a damn whether ballplayers live or die.

On the other hand, it's hard to keep a body count on pro wrestlers, under the age of 40, who have died sudden, steroid-aided deaths in the last 20-25 years.

Vince McMahon does not contract the Elias Sports Bureau to keep track. But that industry-wide number must be closing in on 100.

Not a single active MLB player is known to have died a steroid-related death. But imagine if there had been one. Or two. Imagine if a massively muscled outfielder with the Tigers or Cubs was found dead in his hotel room today.

That's page one, the lead story of every newscast.

But as pro wrestlers drop dead - four, five, six a year - they hardly make a sound.

Pro wrestlers, a fraction of the number of MLB's talent pool, regularly drop dead; few seem to notice and fewer seem to care. And that's just the way that McMahon & Co. want it.

Last week, as MLB and the MLBPA finalized the Congressionally exacted steroid policy, Eddie Guerrero, one of McMahon's top WWE stars, was found dead in his hotel room in Minnesota. He was 38.

Pro wrestlers are commonly found dead in their hotel rooms. In fact, steroid-fortified WWF (now the WWE) star Brian Pillman, 33, was found dead in his hotel room in Minnesota in 1997.

It works like this: The wrestlers know that their bosses want over-the-top muscle.

They know that there's an implied, industry-wide directive to be on or to get on the juice.

They know that they have to be on the road many weeks at a time, without any medical coverage or sick days.

Miss a show due to illness or injury and you miss a payday. Often, one or two misses and you're fired.

So the cycle begins. Steroids to get and keep the job, barbiturates to kill the pain and get some sleep, stimulants to get through the next gig.

That's why pro wrestlers are found dead in their hotel rooms.

Guerrero was only 5-8, but with muscles that pushed the limits of natural physiology. And he was a pro drug abuser every bit as much as he was a pro wrestler - the two, in the Vince McMahon Era, rarely stand alone.

While Selig, the king of baseball, is hauled before Congress, McMahon, the king of pro wrestling - himself once massed on steroids - skips through the cemetery. He surely must think it wonderful that so few people care, that the media view his business only as a trendsetter for lowbrow pop culture.

McMahon is so smug in his knowledge that the news media ignore the deaths of pro wrestlers that he actually exploits the fatalities to pump TV ratings. Shortly after Pillman's death, the WWF promoted a "stay-tuned-for" interview with Pillman's widow, who was too naive to understand that her late husband died both a drug- and pro wrestling business- related death.

Last week McMahon exploited Guerrero's death to make ratings hay with his NBC-TV partners, first on McMahon's hideously desensitizing USA Network show (USA is now owned by NBC) and then through a speak-no-evil memorial on MSNBC. And let's not forget McMahon's long friendship and partnerships with NBC Sports boss Dick Ebersol, who convinced NBC to turn Saturday nights over to McMahon's XFL.

There are other big shots who take big dives for McMahon. A former U.S. governor, for example, other than Jesse (The steroid Body) Ventura. Lowell Weicker, from McMahon's home state of Connecticut, is a former governor and senator.

Weicker has long served as a member of the WWE's Board of Directors. We don't know what Weicker is paid for his presence, but given that he has to look past the perversity of McMahon's TV product and that he has to look around the scores of dead young men produced by the industry, he works cheap.

Anyway, under threat of Congress, MLB last week introduced a stronger drug policy. That made big news - while another pro wrestler dropped dead. And they continue to drop dead, ever so softly, so as to scarcely make a sound.

Just the way McMahon likes it.
 
Thanks for posting that article. I'm interested in hearing everyone's thoughts about it.

And here's some more news:

Alex Greenfield is expected to replace Dave Lagana (rumored to be moving to WWE.com) as Smackdown head writer. If the move is made, one of his assistants could be Dusty Rhodes.

- Despite the set back with the "Rattlesnake" at Taboo Tuesday, WWE is still hopeful of a Steve Austin vs. Hulk Hogan at Wrestlemania 22.

- Topps Card Co. newsletter has stated that they will be doing "WWE Heritage Cards", which will feature past, present and future WWE stars. The cards ship this month.

- WWE will be releasing the autobiography of WWE Legend "Superstar" Billy Graham on 1/10.

In an interesting move, UFC will be bringing in former WWE star Ken Shamrock to be a coach on the third season of The Ultimate Fighter. Tito Ortiz, who has been used by TNA, will also serve as a coach. The two will face each other sometime next year in a rematch.

- WWE.com reports that they have gotten 125,000 emails about Eddie Guerrero's death since it happened.

- Former WWE ref Earl Hebner and his brother Dave plan to write a "tell all" book about their days in WWE. The two were fired recently.

- WWE plans to bring back the "Road to WrestleMania" publicity tour. It will start in January with Hillbilly Jim hosting the festivities.

- UPN is listing a "Smackdown Special" for 11/29 at 9PM ET. No word on what this special will be about, although it could end up being another Eddie Guerrero tribute show.

- Team Smackdown will be appearing on RAW this week.

Chris Jericho's last Fozzy concert in their Canadian tour was last night in London, Ontario. There was about 150 people there, the show was promoted locally. There were a lot of Eddie chants at the concert, at one point, it appeared Jericho actually had to tag out and the band needed to fill until he was okay.

WWE Royal Rumble tickets are scheduled to go on sale on December 10th in Miami priced at $250, $90, $75, $40 and $20.

Brooke Hogan will be in the 11/28 National Enquirer with a photo of her in a red gown listed as bad fashion, and also in the 11/28 Star there is a photo of Hulk & Brooke with their dressed up dog under a "Normal" or "Not Normal" listing of stars, obviously were listed as Not Normal.

"The Buried Alive" match" between The Undertaker and Randy Orton is officially off the books for Survivor Series as Orton will be competing in the Smackdown vs. Raw elimination match instead. Another match that has been scrapped from Survivor Series was the planned Roddy Piper/Bob Orton match. The reason the match is being cancelled is because Piper has a broken hand.

Lions Gate Films is scheduled to release Kane's movie, "See No Evil" on May 19th, 2006.

WWE officials have been calling Sting as they want him to appear on WWE programming in the future. However, Sting has not been returning the phone calls as he doesn't have much interest in appearing in WWE. He is interested in working on a DVD project with WWE in the future though.

At the Fanslam convention yesterday, Brutus Beefcake said he would be making an appearance on the second season of "Hogan Knows Best." Also, there was a deal at the convention going where Brutus Beefcake offered to personally give a haircut to any fans that wanted one for $20. There were no takers.

Matt "Spike Dudley" Hyson was the mystery guest that Fanslam was promoting through press releases and their website as a former Smackdown star that had recently been released. According to PWInsider.com, Spike's arrival visibly let down at least four female fans who were thinking that it was going to be Christian Cage.

Hulk Hogan and his family will be making an appearance at the "VH1 Big In '05 Awards" show.
 
[quote name='Saucy Jack']Wow, that was an awesome SmackDown! show for Eddie. I was about to lose it several times...

Also, it was odd to see Vince McMahon crying. Usually, you just see a calm, cool demeanor from him... even in dark times. But tonight, it was nice to see the human being behind the businessman.

The Benoit and Chavo matches were excellent.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. It was a nice tribute show, and I'm very happy I was able to tape both Raw and SD this week. My girlfriend even watched the show along with me, and actually stayed awake through the whole show, she often falls asleep during long movies and whenever I'm watching sports. I made a comment to her when Vince was starting about how Vince initially had his "calm, cool demeanor" still, and that I wondered what it'd take for Vince to break down, moments after I said that... he did. Quite touching, the Benoit/HHH hug after their match was nice to see too. All in all I don't think they could've put together a better tribute show.
 
[quote name='xxdeadp0olxx']In this late night edition of wrestling news John Tenta suffers set back, Guerrero's Survivor Series Team Smackdown! replacement, those who attended Guerrero's funeral, and a return to television for Ted DiBiase?[/QUOTE]

Poor John Tenta, I hope he recovers, I'd hate for the Quake to be the first wrestler to get a second topic if that second one is another tribute topic.

I think Orton is a very poor choice for the SD team. I'd much prefer to see Chavo Guerrero put in that match to take his uncle's place. I think Chavo showed everyone how capable he is of having a great match in his tribute match against JBL.
 
Nonsense, Kerwin White is on Raw, Chavo could be on SD. It'd be like Nova on SD and Simon Dean on Velocity, well sort of... Why Nova is gone and Simon Dean is still here is beyond me.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']Poor John Tenta, I hope he recovers, I'd hate for the Quake to be the first wrestler to get a second topic if that second one is another tribute topic.

I think Orton is a very poor choice for the SD team. I'd much prefer to see Chavo Guerrero put in that match to take his uncle's place. I think Chavo showed everyone how capable he is of having a great match in his tribute match against JBL.[/QUOTE]

ZL, you have to accept it man. Eddie is gone, he's dead. Chavo is not Eddie! He never will be... We all miss Eddie sure, but Chavo isn't and will never be Eddie.

Just kidding, Chavo should definitely take his place in the match. And Kerwin White should be on RAW's team :bouncy:
 
[quote name='PhrostByte']WWE Royal Rumble tickets are scheduled to go on sale on December 10th in Miami priced at $250, $90, $75, $40 and $20.


[/QUOTE]
im so there
 
Wow. I'm truly surprised. That is GREAT news, for the performers as long as Vince follows through with it completely, tests everyone (even Trips and Angle) and doesn't stop the testing when this all 'blows over' in a few months.

Maybe Vinnie Mac actually reads PWI or the CAG forums and realized what a good idea was proposed? :lol:
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Not a moment too soon, and arguably several too late, but good news nonetheless.

http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/1613464[/QUOTE]


i wonder how many people will be released

and on the rumble..

im still contemplating if to go all out and get $250 tickets or settle for the $90 ones.. this is my fav ppv and it hasnt been here in over 120 years.

then again its just wrestling.. and xmas is coming.. bills bills bills
 
[quote name='guyver2077']i wonder how many people will be released[/QUOTE]

I doubt anyone will be; there will probably be a grace period where, if you test positive, you will be suspended and/or sent to rehab. Perhaps a second offense would certainly warrant a release, or depending on the offense (say, overdoing pain pills versus being busted with a gram of coke).

I only hope that, assuming WWE intends on going through with this fully and thoroughly, that this doesn't lead to TNA hiring all of WWE's ex-junkies without letting them clean up first. TNA needs to do this too.
 
Bumping this topic to remind everyone that RAW is on tonight.

[quote name='WWE.com']Batista leads the charge
November 21, 2005

With just one week before the Survivor Series pay-per-view, be sure to tune into RAW tonight on the USA Network (9/8 CT) as Eric Bischoff and his Superstars come to you from the United Kingdom.

This week, Team SmackDown captain Batista leads his team of Randy Orton, JBL, Lashley & Rey Mysterio into RAW. What does The Animal's team have in store for their Survivor Series opponents? Watch RAW to find out.

In what promises to be an instant mat classic, Olympic Gold Medalist Kurt Angle will take on his former associate Shelton Benjamin in one-on-one action. Shelton broke into WWE under Angle's tutelage, but did Angle teach him everything he knows?

Just six days before his showdown with Triple H at Survivor Series, Intercontinental Champion Ric Flair will square off against Trevor Murdoch. Will the "Dirtiest Player in the Game" be able to handle the double-tough former World Tag Team Champion?

Also, Divas will collide when Candice Michelle goes one on one with Mickie James. Don't miss all this and more tonight at 9/8 CT on the USA Network.[/quote]

Also be sure to catch the replay of TNA Impact tonight. Good solid show this week. Worth checking out. :D
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Not a moment too soon, and arguably several too late, but good news nonetheless.

http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/1613464[/QUOTE]

It is indeed several years too late though, this should've been put in place after the big steroid trials of the mid-90s, WWE could've set the standard for MLB and so forth.

Anyway, I doubt this is going to do much for saving guys like Batista down the road, but perhaps Chris Masters will live longer now...
 
I'm not sure if anyone watched the meeting video, but for those of you wondering about the announcing tonight, Joey Styles was standing in front of the cameraman, so I'd say it's a good bet that he'll be on air tonight.
 
[quote name='Genocidal']Wow. I'm truly surprised. That is GREAT news, for the performers as long as Vince follows through with it completely, tests everyone (even Trips and Angle) and doesn't stop the testing when this all 'blows over' in a few months.

Maybe Vinnie Mac actually reads PWI or the CAG forums and realized what a good idea was proposed? :lol:[/QUOTE]

I think this is good news but Vince also needs to cut down on some of the traveling that WWE does to put on shows. Part of the reason wrestlers turn to steroids is to recover from all the work they do. That is part of why I am in favor of an off-season/hiatus like sports or other TV shows like I mentioned in a previous thread. Have a two month off-season period in November and December. Give guys a much needed rest and time with families. Tighten up story lines. Show "best of" shows in place of regular Smackdown/RAW episodes. Then come back with the Royal Rumble to start the new year and get people hyped for WWE. If they do this, morale in the locker room should soar.
 
Time for the Saucy one to bring you the news you desire! Brought to you by (and you heard it here first):

Reno 911!: The Movie. Shooting starts in January.

In this issue... Joey Styles signs? What happens to Eugene? Why was Vader brought in? New Pro Wrestling documentary in production... and much more.

Tonight on RAW, which is being taped right now:

- Kurt Angle vs. Shelton Benjamin.

- Ric Flair vs. Trevor Murdoch.

- Candice Michelle vs. Mickie James.

- Team SmackDown! will appear.

- Joey Styles is backstage at RAW and it appears he has signed a deal. The last two weeks (and Taboo Tuesday) were considered a tryout for him. Styles was on personal leave from his advertising job it Atlanta and was flown to the UK to call RAW tonight.

-- Dusty Rhodes is said to have been the one behind the angle on RAW where Vader and Goldust came out, with Coach dressed up like Austin. Vince McMahon is particularly mad at Dusty for how this turned out, plus the fact that Vince never liked Vader in the first place. Some backstage are afraid to get close to Dusty as Vince will associate the two.

Last year, when in a booking meeting the subject of bringing in big names was brought up, one writer mentioned Vader and was almost laughed out of the room.

- The '101 Reasons Not To Be A Pro Wrestler' DVD got a strong review in the latest issue of Pro Wrestling Illustrated that is currently available at news stands, receiving 4 out 5 suplexes. A quote from the magazine review states, "Director Michael Moody managed to get candid and in some cases, fascinating interviews from about a dozen wrestlers, including New Jack, DDP, Vampiro, Tylene "Major Gunns" Buck and Joanie "Chyna" Laurer. The result is a no-holds barred, fly-on-the-wall inside look at the guys of the wrestling business."

The 101 Reasons Not To Be A Pro Wrestler DVD is the perfect Christmas gift for any wrestling fan. To order a copy of the '101 Reasons Not To Be A Pro Wrestler' DVD go to www.HollymoodEntertainment.com or go to the direct link to purchase the DVD at http://hollymoodentertainment.com/index.php?id=order

-- In some related exclusive news, next pro wrestling documentary from Hollymood, which will enter the post production phase in the next month, titled 'Pro Wrestling Dreams', will involve the lucha libre icon Rey Misterio, Petey Williams and Austin Aries, as well as many other pro wrestlers. Details on the other involved wrestlers are not currently available.

As noted earlier, Joey Styles had been working a week-to-week schedule on a tryout basis with WWE. As of last week, no deal had been signed but he is in the U.K and scheduled to announce RAW tonight. Joey had been taking his remaining sick days from an advertising job in Atlanta. The offer that was probably put on the table suited Joey more as he'd only need to work one day a week and be paid a healthy sum of money per year. More details on if he has even signed will be forthcoming.

WWE has added pre-RAW photos from England on their site at http://www.wwe.com/shows/raw/prerawphotos/

Last week in Manchester, England, Nick “Eugene” Dinsmore was immediately rushed to a nearby hospital after he was found passed out in a hotel lobby.

After regaining consciousness, Dinsmore admitting to taking Somas and other prescription medication. As a result of the incident, he was sent home from the WWE International tour and suspended indefinitely.

Since returning home, Dinsmore has agreed to seek professional help. He flew to an undisclosed location, where he will spend the next two weeks being evaluated at a drug rehabilitation facility.
 
Scorch... and everyone else who has questionable ratio or wants a boost with PWT... here's your chance (if you cough up a few bucks). Visit the PWT tracker page for details.

I wonder what's the minimum you have to donate for VIP status?
 
I was just thinking random thoughts about WWE. I was thinking of how I'd like to see Chris Jericho on Smackdown to wrestle Juventud... then it dawned on me. Smackdown's World Champ, Batista, is out, and all signs point to Randy Orton (also recently added to the Survivor Series team) taking the title off him.

However, since Batista will obviously be writtenout of the SS match and SD could use another good worker, is there any chance that Jericho could make a comeback? He'd be an awesome surprise replacement for Batista and could help fill some of the void left by Smackdown losing its 2 biggest faces.
 
well i was dissapointed to see that they didnt upate nwo hogan theme song in smackdown vs raw... too me it ruins it completely the same way it did with wrestlemania x8 for gc..
 
WWE video game question: I own all three current gen (well at least current gen for a few more hours) systems and was wanting to know which inexpensive wrestling game (i.e. not DoR2 or SvR06) would give me the best bang for the buck? I really want SvR06 but I think I'll wait til Christmas for that. Thanks.
 
[quote name='2fast_2fuhrer']WWE video game question: I own all three current gen (well at least current gen for a few more hours) systems and was wanting to know which inexpensive wrestling game (i.e. not DoR2 or SvR06) would give me the best bang for the buck? I really want SvR06 but I think I'll wait til Christmas for that. Thanks.[/QUOTE]

Here Comes The Pain
 
I turned Comedy Central on a little bit ago. Did you guys know Stacy Keibler has a bit part in Bubble Boy? No lines and she's dressed as Miss Handcock.
 
[quote name='Scorch']Here Comes The Pain[/QUOTE]

I agree with Scorch and Casey. Shut Your Mouth is a disappointment, and SvR wasn't much of an improvement over HCTP. HCTP has the best roster also, IMO.
 
[quote name='neocisco']I turned Comedy Central on a little bit ago. Did you guys know Stacy Keibler has a bit part in Bubble Boy? No lines and she's dressed as Miss Handcock.[/QUOTE]

Yeah i knew that
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']Here Comes The Pain is the best game that is older IMO[/QUOTE]

I agree. Rented it when I had a PS2. Pretty good.

[quote name='neocisco']I turned Comedy Central on a little bit ago. Did you guys know Stacy Keibler has a bit part in Bubble Boy? No lines and she's dressed as Miss Handcock.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I remember reading that she was in that movie. I think Midajah (who was Scott Steiner's valet for a while in WCW) is in it, too.
 
[quote name='guyver2077']damn that was awesome!!![/QUOTE]

..No, it wasn't. It was one of the dumbest opening segments of Raw. It was used only to write Batista off and served no real purpose.
 
[quote name='guyver2077']they should get taker on the team!! wouldnt make sense with orton though[/QUOTE]

Taker would've been the best choice... or simply announce a surprise replacement for Batista (if necessary) and have it be Taker. Recall that Taker originally appeared at the Survivor Series 15 years ago, as none other than Ted Dibiase's mystery man for his team.
 
[quote name='Scorch It was used only to write Batista off [u']and[/u] served no real purpose.[/QUOTE]

Something wrong with your math there Scorch-o. I know what you're saying, but it was important for storyline purposes for Batista to get a beat down. Now if he's out for the ppv or loses to Orton, it'll make more sense.
 
God... I actually like JBL now, if out of nothing else than my respect for Eddie. Well that and his uncanny ability to make everyone hate him so much.
 
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