Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - *Its Over...Toshiba Swings White Flag*

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I gotta admit, its getting pretty scary on how Blu-Ray software is gaining ground, Toshiba needs to get on the ball and strike while the iron is hot. Hopefully CES 2008 in January will reveal much needed good news for us red folks.
 
While the iron is hot?

HD DVD got Paramount and Dreamworks to go exclusive.
No effect.
Biggest release in HD DVD history, Transformers explodes.
No effect.
Toshiba and Walmart with the Red Revolution and $99 players with tons of free movies.
No effect.

The iron is ice cold.
 
[quote name='dallow']While the iron is hot?

HD DVD got Paramount and Dreamworks to go exclusive.
No effect.
Biggest release in HD DVD history, Transformers explodes.
No effect.
Toshiba and Walmart with the Red Revolution and $99 players with tons of free movies.
No effect.

The iron is ice cold.[/quote]

While the iron is hot, meaning while HDM is still fairly new.
 
[quote name='dallow']HD DVD got Paramount and Dreamworks to go exclusive.
No effect.[/QUOTE]

I disagree. Go tell me what the only HD DVD exclusive titles are in the top 10 sales list from last week.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']As me and Dpatel have said, HD-DVD's advantages over Blu-ray will eventually cease to exist. Eventually Blu-ray will be just as cheap, will have all studio support (if they outright win) and will have some sort of interactivity. However, HD-DVD will never have 25gb per layer nor will they have hard coating. This is why I support Blu-ray.[/QUOTE]

Are you serious?

Yeah, eventually Blu-Ray will be cheap and have interactivity but how many years will that be and who's to say HD-DVDs price/features will stay the same.

Will have all studio support? lol

Yeah, they won't have 25GB per layer but they are working on a 51GB disc and are you really using hard coating as a plus? That's not even a exclusive feature and the only reason they pay the extra for it is because they have too.

[quote name='mykevermin']I disagree. Go tell me what the only HD DVD exclusive titles are in the top 10 sales list from last week.[/QUOTE]

Even though we don't agree on much, you are right about that one.

HD DVD got Paramount and Dreamworks to go exclusive.
No effect. People start seeing that HD-DVD isn't going anywhere, some online soliders go neutral.
Biggest release in HD DVD history, Transformers explodes.
No effect. Transformers becomes one of the best selling HD-DVDs released.
Toshiba and Walmart with the Red Revolution and $99 players with tons of free movies.
No effect. Walmart sells all of the player within 3 days, adding 100,000 people into the HDM fold.

All three of those are pretty far away from no effect.
 
I'm saying, no effect as in still not breaking the software ratios every week.
But yeah, Universal nowhere to be seen.

If Paramount and Dreamworks had stayed neutral.
Would 90/10 ratios been out of the question?

EDIT: Wait, C&L and Knocked Up are Uni.
What were trying to say exactly?
 
[quote name='dallow']I'm saying, no effect as in still not breaking the software ratios every week.
But yeah, Universal nowhere to be seen.

If Paramount and Dreamworks had stayed neutral.
Would 90/10 ratios been out of the question?[/QUOTE]

Probably so. I'd expect to see, at best, consistent 75/25 weeks. Keep in mind, Paramount is helping keep HD DVD alive, but they've only managed to do so via two titles thus far: Transformers (which turned out to be a huge boon) and Shrek (which is doing modestly well, I reckon).

If the ratio is 2/1 on an average week, and approaching 3/1 on a good week for Blu-Ray, it's silly to think they'd spontaneously get 9/1 ratios based on the availability of two titles for the format.

Besides, if they were neutral, they'd still be selling like hotcakes (which sell quite well, I hear) on HD DVD as well, so don't discount that.

But, to think through it all...isn't *every* week a good week for Blu-Ray? ;)
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Even though we don't agree on much, you are right about that one.

HD DVD got Paramount and Dreamworks to go exclusive.
No effect. People start seeing that HD-DVD isn't going anywhere, some online soliders go neutral.
Biggest release in HD DVD history, Transformers explodes.
No effect. Transformers becomes one of the best selling HD-DVDs released.
Toshiba and Walmart with the Red Revolution and $99 players with tons of free movies.
No effect. Walmart sells all of the player within 3 days, adding 100,000 people into the HDM fold.

All three of those are pretty far away from no effect.[/quote]Did you see the software ratio for last week?
 
[quote name='Sporadic']
Toshiba and Walmart with the Red Revolution and $99 players with tons of free movies.
[/QUOTE]

All of the adds I see on TV seem that Walmart is leaning the other way. This is the first I've heard of the "Red Revolution", which sounds somewhat comical to me. Walmart offered it FOR ONE DAY. It sounds to me like they wanted them out of their stores asap. Why else would they sell them at a loss, unless the HD group reimbursed Walmart.
 
Here's the rundown:

Code: 
Top 10 by SKU:

1.  Live Free or Die Hard            100.00
2.  Open Season                    49.75
3.  Spider-Man 3                36.67
4.  Ratatouille                    29.66
5.  Shrek the Third                25.01
6.  Transformers                22.87
7.  Hairspray BR                17.72
8.  Ocean's Thirteen  BR            16.73
9.  The Santa Clause 3:  The Escape Clause    15.53
10. 300 BR                    15.09

xx. Planet Earth: The Complete Series HD    13.72
xx. Planet Earth: The Complete Series BR    10.42
xx. Ocean's Thirteen HD                10.09
xx. Star Trek: The Original Series - Season One    6.89
xx. 300 HD                    6.44

Top 10 by Title:

1.  Live Free or Die Hard            100.00
2.  Open Season                    49.75
3.  Spider-Man 3                36.67
4.  Ratatouille                    29.66
5.  Ocean's Thirteen                26.81
6.  Shrek the Third                25.01
7.  Planet Earth: The Complete Series        24.14
8.  Transformers                22.87
9.  300                        21.53
10. Hairspray                    17.72

xx. The Santa Clause 3:  The Escape Clause    15.53
xx. Star Trek: The Original Series - Season One    6.89

Top 5 Blu-Ray:

1.  Live Free or Die Hard            100.00
2.  Open Season                    49.75
3.  Spider-Man 3                36.67
4.  Ratatouille                    29.66
5.  Hairspray                    17.72
6.  Ocean's Thirteen                16.73
7.  The Santa Clause 3:  The Escape Clause    15.53
8.  300                        15.09

xx. Planet Earth: The Complete Series BR    10.42

Top 5 HD DVD:

1.  Shrek the Third                100.00
2.  Transformers                91.44
3.  Planet Earth: The Complete Series        54.86
4.  Ocean's Thirteen                40.30
5.  Star Trek: The Original Series - Season One    27.53

xx. 300                        25.75

And Dave Vaughan (Editor of a HT mag that gets Nielsen unit sales numbers) went into slightly greater detail on LFODH. Apparently actual sales of the standalone disc and boxset combined were significantly less than 50k.

Combine that with the fact that he also said Open Season doubled its SI sales on Black Friday, we can figure out a few other things. First, sales of LFODH on its own were probably very close to 43k. Second, 21-22k 40GB PS3s were sold at Best Buy on BF.

I'll re-do the list based on an estimate of 21,500 sales for Open Season (its previous SI figure) and post it in a minute.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']All of the adds I see on TV seem that Walmart is leaning the other way. This is the first I've heard of the "Red Revolution", which sounds somewhat comical to me. Walmart offered it FOR ONE DAY. It sounds to me like they wanted them out of their stores asap. Why else would they sell them at a loss, unless the HD group reimbursed Walmart.[/QUOTE]

I was quoting dallow.

And yes, I'm sure Wal Mart bought a massive amount of players and made commercials to push them because they were so desperate to get rid of the stock so they could back the real winner Blu.

Now, where did I put my tinfoil?

- edit [quote name='dallow']Did you see the software ratio for last week?[/QUOTE]

And?

Just because the software ratios didn't go insane when there were no real good HD-DVD releases on our side means that all of that is nothing?
 
As promised, unit estimates based on an assumption of 21.5k copies of Open Season sold. These are a bit optimistic, because Open Season almost doubled its SI sales, but didn't quite (I went back and checked Dave's comments). So the numbers are probably a few percent lower than this, but it should be accurate enough for us:

Code: 
Top 10 unit estimates by SKU:

1.  Live Free or Die Hard            43,216
2.  Open Season                    21,500
3.  Spider-Man 3                15,847
4.  Ratatouille                    12,818
5.  Shrek the Third                10,808
6.  Transformers                 9,884
7.  Hairspray BR                 7,658
8.  Ocean's Thirteen  BR             7,230
9.  The Santa Clause 3:  The Escape Clause     6,711
10. 300 BR                     6,521

xx. Planet Earth: The Complete Series HD     5,929
xx. Planet Earth: The Complete Series BR     4,503
xx. Ocean's Thirteen HD                 4,361
xx. Star Trek: The Original Series - Season One     2,978
xx. 300 HD                     2,783

Top 10 unit estimates by Title:

1.  Live Free or Die Hard            43,216
2.  Open Season                    21,500
3.  Spider-Man 3                15,847
4.  Ratatouille                    12,818
5.  Ocean's Thirteen                11,586
6.  Shrek the Third                10,808
7.  Planet Earth: The Complete Series        10,432
8.  Transformers                 9,884
9.  300                         9,304
10. Hairspray                     7,658

xx. The Santa Clause 3:  The Escape Clause     6,711
xx. Star Trek: The Original Series - Season One     2,978

Top 5 Blu-Ray unit estimates:

1.  Live Free or Die Hard            43,216
2.  Open Season                    21,500
3.  Spider-Man 3                15,847
4.  Ratatouille                    12,818
5.  Hairspray                     7,658
6.  Ocean's Thirteen                 7,230
7.  The Santa Clause 3:  The Escape Clause     6,711
8.  300                         6,521

xx. Planet Earth: The Complete Series BR     4,503

Top 5 HD DVD unit estimates:

1.  Shrek the Third                10,808
2.  Transformers                 9,884
3.  Planet Earth: The Complete Series         5,929
4.  Ocean's Thirteen                 7,230
5.  Star Trek: The Original Series - Season One     2,978

xx. 300                         2,783
 
Top 10 Tech Train Wrecks of 2007--HDM:

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterson/8538
HD format war drags on, begins to feel pointless
The back-and-forth battle between the Blu-ray and HD DVD camps continues to rage, with no end in sight. Blu-ray backers were telling us back in January that they had it all wrapped up, especially with the release of Blu-ray-packing PlayStation 3 consoles. But then something funny happened: the PS3 didn't sell nearly as well as expected (although sales are on the uptick thanks to recent price cuts). Meanwhile, prices for HD DVD decks fell steadily, while stand-alone Blu-ray price tags stayed stubbornly in the $400 to $500 range. Then, in August, HD DVD delivered a brutal sucker punch when Paramount and DreamWorks pulled their support for Blu-ray, choosing instead to go with HD DVD exclusively (word is the two studios were paid handsomely for crossing the street). As it stands now, the HD format war is at (in the words of Sony CEO Sir Howard Stringer himself) a "stalemate." What's the punchline to this sad tale? By the time this slugfest is over, we'll probably be downloading all our HD movies anyway.
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='Sporadic']And?

Just because the software ratios didn't go insane when there were no real good HD-DVD releases on our side means that all of that is nothing?[/quote]

Oh, guess those tens of thousands of Walmart players have done nothing so far.
NO EFFECT.
of course i never meant literally "NO EFFECT", i'm talking very minimal
 
Wow, you HD DVD guys are gonna hate this BDA ad from Nextbook magazine.

bluray.thumbnail.png
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Are you serious?

Yeah, eventually Blu-Ray will be cheap and have interactivity but how many years will that be and who's to say HD-DVDs price/features will stay the same.

Will have all studio support? lol

Yeah, they won't have 25GB per layer but they are working on a 51GB disc and are you really using hard coating as a plus? That's not even a exclusive feature and the only reason they pay the extra for it is because they have too.

[/quote]
My point was studio support of Paramount/Dreamworks whatever will eventually not be a selling point for either side once the war is over. Who cares about 51gb discs? Yes they have been approved but we still don't know for certain if they will work on old drives with or without a firmware update, or if they will work at all, nor do we know if they are actually going to USE them. And 25gb per layer > 15gb per layer, bottom line.

HD-DVD does NOT use hard-coating, exclusive or not. All I know is my Blu-ray movies can survive a pizza cutter going across them and HD-DVD can not. Durability of my movies I spend money on is important.

And interactivity will coming soon, within the next year. Disney is not going to let the BDA mess around anymore and screw around with the BD-Java. They are tired of waiting as we are and will get the ball rolling. And blu-ray movies are typically ALREADY cheaper for consumers to buy, and eventually the prices of drives will come down soon as well as more are made.

And dallow, we all know that Blu-ray ad is false advertising as those neilson numbers don't include Wal-mart numbers!
(even though Wal-mart had great Black friday sales on Blu-ray movies and probably sold more Blu-ray movies, that's irrelevant because it's one more argument for the red side.)
 
The big thing is HD DVD has blown their load. Players have dropped to $100-200, Transformers has come and gone, and the few manufactures besides Toshiba are not pushing the format anywhere. With all of that they still have not beaten Blu ray once in sales this year, I don't see how anyone can think they will in the future.
 
Hehe, my math is off. It's $179.

[quote name='rodeojones'] I'm tempted to buy that for my bedroom.[/quote]I might get it for my lady friend.
She's jealous of my movies.
 
[quote name='dallow']Hehe, my math is off. It's $179.

I might get it for my lady friend.
She's jealous of my movies.[/quote]

Tempting but I'm not keen on Phillips products, specially refurbs. Had a bad experience buying a TV from them in the past.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']My point was studio support of Paramount/Dreamworks whatever will eventually not be a selling point for either side once the war is over. [/quote]
wtf?

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Who cares about 51gb discs? Yes they have been approved but we still don't know for certain if they will work on old drives with or without a firmware update, or if they will work at all, nor do we know if they are actually going to USE them. And 25gb per layer > 15gb per layer, bottom line. [/quote]
I'm so goddamn sick of hearing this. Space is important (hey they are working on a 51GB disc) SHUT UP 25>15

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']HD-DVD does NOT use hard-coating, exclusive or not. All I know is my Blu-ray movies can survive a pizza cutter going across them and HD-DVD can not. Durability of my movies I spend money on is important. [/quote]
Yeah, but again, they don't use it because they don't have to.

HD-DVDs are just as durable as DVD and since Blu-Ray dumped their disc caddy idea, they have to spend the extra money on that coating or else their disc would barely last in the wild.

Are you really retarded enough to fuck up your disc where it's on the same level as rolling a pizza cutter across it?

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']And interactivity will coming soon, within the next year. Disney is not going to let the BDA mess around anymore and screw around with the BD-Java. They are tired of waiting as we are and will get the ball rolling. And blu-ray movies are typically ALREADY cheaper for consumers to buy, and eventually the prices of drives will come down soon as well as more are made.[/quote]
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Who cares about 51gb discs BR interactivity? Yes they have it has been approved but we still don't know for certain if they will work on old drives with or without a firmware update, or if they will work at all, nor do we know if they are actually going to USE them. And 25gb per layer > 15gb per layer, HDi>BD-J bottom line. [/quote]
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Are you really retarded enough to fuck up your disc where it's on the same level as rolling a pizza cutter across it?[/quote]

I really like the extra layer of coating. I've had two Blu-Ray discs "loose" in their case when they were delivered to my house via mail, and didn't have a scratch on them. I LOVE that.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Are you really retarded enough to fuck up your disc where it's on the same level as rolling a pizza cutter across it?[/QUOTE]

I take great care of my discs, so it has never been a problem. But being one who likes to save a bit of cash by buying second hand, I certainly welcome the extra protection. This may be a non issue for those who don't buy used, and take great care of their stuff, but I don't see why anyone would downplay an extra bonus like this.
 
All this Blu-Ray stuff makes me think I just bought my brother a bad gift....

I took advantage of the HDDVD player for $199. He wanted a HD player so I figured HD was a solid choice. Plus half the cost of a blu-ray player. I sent out for the 5 free movies so I can't return it.

I hope I didn't get him a crappy gift.......:cry:
 
[quote name='figcoinc']All this Blu-Ray stuff makes me think I just bought my brother a bad gift....

I took advantage of the HDDVD player for $199. He wanted a HD player so I figured HD was a solid choice. Plus half the cost of a blu-ray player.

I hope I didn't get him a crappy gift.......:cry:[/QUOTE]

I still think BD will win, but, if that does happen, I can't see HD-DVD dying any time soon. Both of these formats have built up pretty big fanbases, and will definitely put up a fight to stay alive. It may have not been the better of the two (assuming it does fail), but it definitely wasn't a bad choice.

I'm sure he'll get his monies worth (err.. your monies worth).
 
really... when HD-DVD goes under... its not like you're going to miss anything about it. Except for the great deals you get just before it completely goes under.
 
well do we really need a 51gb disc for movies....IMO no. It is great for business use, but I assume we are talking about the movie side. As a movie watcher, what is the 51gb in the near future going to get me. I haven't seen anything that has come out at this point that can't be done on the other format with some tweaks (ie interactivity).
 
[quote name='ryanbph']well do we really need a 51gb disc for movies....IMO no. It is great for business use, but I assume we are talking about the movie side. As a movie watcher, what is the 51gb in the near future going to get me. I haven't seen anything that has come out at this point that can't be done on the other format with some tweaks (ie interactivity).[/quote]The dozens of HD DVD flicks with Dolby Digital + tracks rather than lossless, 2 disc movies (vs 1 disc on BD) and even the removal of HD extras from the last Harry Potter movie (now in SD, vs HD on Blu Ray) all tell me that yes, HD DVD needs the 51GB disc for movies.

Of course, cut out the extras on both sides, and the issue is gone.
 
You know, I wonder what this thread would be like if HD-DVD outsold Bluray at a 2:1 ratio every week. Reading some of the HD-DVD posts sure make it seem this way.

And on the "Wal-Mart isn't being included" in the Nielson numbers argument, does that really benefit Bluray? Every Wal-Mart I've been to has atleast twice the amount of Bluray titles over HD-DVD, so I doubt those numbers would work in their favor.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']wtf?


I'm so goddamn sick of hearing this. Space is important (hey they are working on a 51GB disc) SHUT UP 25>15


Yeah, but again, they don't use it because they don't have to.

HD-DVDs are just as durable as DVD and since Blu-Ray dumped their disc caddy idea, they have to spend the extra money on that coating or else their disc would barely last in the wild.

Are you really retarded enough to fuck up your disc where it's on the same level as rolling a pizza cutter across it?[/quote]

Stuff happens with discs, who knows. And BR interactivity is different than the 51gb. Drives can still play the actual movies, just not the interactivity. You can't play the actual 51gb unless you upgrade, which I am sure a lot of people don't know how to do. Which is a big difference. And I may take care of my discs, but my brother doesn't, or other family members, and it's nice to know I don't have to worry about him or anyone else screwing them up. And it's also helpful when renting movies.

And read my sig about the whole 25 > 15gb argument. I won't believe in these 51gb discs till I actually see them, because besides the fact that they have been developed, we really haven't heard anything about them quite yet.
 
People wonder why I've been so on edge lately and really one of the reason is all of the misinformation running rampant through this thread. Due to that and things happening in my personal life, I'll be bowing out until January.

[quote name='dallow']The dozens of HD DVD flicks with Dolby Digital + tracks rather than lossless, 2 disc movies (vs 1 disc on BD) and even the removal of HD extras from the last Harry Potter movie (now in SD, vs HD on Blu Ray) all tell me that yes, HD DVD needs the 51GB disc for movies.

Of course, cut out the extras on both sides, and the issue is gone.[/QUOTE]

A) The space issue for lossless tracks is bullshit. If it was truly an issue, Universal wouldn't be able to put TrueHD on just about all of their upcoming releases and just about all foreign releases won't be able have them either. Also Transformers (which is what everybody points at for lack of disc space/no lossless) had 5 free GBs on the disc.

B) So I guess 50GBs isn't enough either since Superbad is coming out in a 2 disc set? Or maybe you don't realize that spreading the stuff across two disc is actually a plus since consumers believe that they are getting a better value?

C) You also don't pay attention to disc info on a global scale, eh? If so you would have read that the UK version of the HD-DVD Harry Potter is keeping their HD extras and that it's America getting the shaft. And believe it or not, this isn't the first time it's happened. Blade Runner has had all of their extras mastered in HD but both versions are only getting the SD version. Warner is preparing for future double dips.

And since this is going to be my final post in this thread for a month, I'll actually let you on why I believe that America/HD-DVD is getting the shaft.

Double.Dip.Exclusivity

Yes, I'm predicting that Warner is going to go HD-DVD exclusive sometime in 2008 and the reason they are holding back now is so they can double dip us in the future.

Sounds crazy but crazier things have happened (like Paramount coming home) (remember Warner was also HD-DVD exclusive in the pre-launch days before they decided to go neutral)

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Stuff happens with discs, who knows.[/QUOTE]

You want to know why I jumped on you about that, it's because across all of the forums I read lately, all the BR fans have started touting this as some type of trump card. What I'm wondering is when was the memo sent out and are you guys really that desperate?

Bragging about something that they have to add due to the weakness of the disc design, doesn't make much sense to me.

Also let me pull a page out of your guys' book and be an ultra dick by downplaying that protective coating because you can't use traditional means to fix them (you know just in case you do go wild with the pizza cutter one day and some how manage to damage it) since the data is so close to the surface.

51GB blah blah blah useless nobody can update their firmware blah blah blah I hope in a month's time you can figure out a better argument. Although I doubt it since it's been months since it's announcement and the only thing you guys have figured out so far is a massive trail of broken, very hypocritical logic.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']You want to know why I jumped on you about that, it's because across all of the forums I read lately, all the BR fans have started touting this as some type of trump card. What I'm wondering is when was the memo sent out and are you guys really that desperate?[/QUOTE]

Desperate? I believe it was you who called someone else 'retarded' because you assumed they couldn't take care of their discs simply because they see the extra durability as a benefit. I too take great care of my stuff, but the more durable they are, the better. That said, this factor isn't going to single handedly decide the war, but it definitely doesn't hurt.

[quote name='Sporadic']Bragging about something that they have to add due to the weakness of the disc design, doesn't make much sense to me.[/QUOTE]

Bragging about a more durable product doesn't make sense to you? That's a new one.

[quote name='Sporadic']B) So I guess 50GBs isn't enough either since Superbad is coming out in a 2 disc set? Or maybe you don't realize that spreading the stuff across two disc is actually a plus since consumers believe that they are getting a better value?[/QUOTE]

While having 2 discs might be a plus, you do realize with larger capacity discs, it becomes more of an option, rather than a necessity. The lesser capacity HD-DVDs don't make things impossible, I don't think anyone has ever said that. But I just see little reason to settle for lesser space, when few advantages come out of it. The only rebuttal I have seen for the lack of space is that 'a second disc will solve the problem and add more perceived value', but you do realize that BD is also entirely capable of the two-disc set, and studios can take this route if they choose to do so too, so the rebuttal is really not a plus for HD-DVD, but more of an attempt to nullify a benefit of BD.

I really have yet to see ONE reason as to why I should settle for less space. I really hate to bring up a tired argument, but since you guys are on the subject, I'd like to hear one advantage to sacrificing the extra 10GB per layer. I know the extra 10GB can be nullified through compression, second disc, etc, but that still doesn't seem like an advantage, as it results in the same outcome.
 
doesn't look like there's a day and date hi def for The Assassination of etc etc

Warner announced DVD and nothing in HD

sucks
 
[quote name='Sporadic']
You want to know why I jumped on you about that, it's because across all of the forums I read lately, all the BR fans have started touting this as some type of trump card. What I'm wondering is when was the memo sent out and are you guys really that desperate?

Bragging about something that they have to add due to the weakness of the disc design, doesn't make much sense to me.

Also let me pull a page out of your guys' book and be an ultra dick by downplaying that protective coating because you can't use traditional means to fix them (you know just in case you do go wild with the pizza cutter one day and some how manage to damage it) since the data is so close to the surface.

51GB blah blah blah useless nobody can update their firmware blah blah blah I hope in a month's time you can figure out a better argument. Although I doubt it since it's been months since it's announcement and the only thing you guys have figured out so far is a massive trail of broken, very hypocritical logic.[/quote]
If you have read my posts previously, you would know that I have always touted the hard-coating as a plus, not just recently. And I don't care why they have to do the hard coating, I just care that they do and my discs are protected. And I haven't said anything about 51gb discs except we know nothing about them. We don't know if they are even going to be used, what old players have to do to read them, or if they can. If it's just a firmware update, I am completely fine with that because that's what blu-ray players need to read new movies and BD-J. It's just some of your HD-DVD fan boys tout these 51gb discs as the savior of HD-DVD and the downfall of Blu-ray, and don't know anything about them, and always bash Blu-ray for firmware updates when HD-DVD drives need the same thing and will possibly need to, to read these new 51gb discs, if that's what's necessary.

Are Blu-ray guys desperate? Have you read some of the HD-DVD counter-argument's recently? And yes, all of us Blu-ray guys are desperate as we are outselling HD-DVD 2 to 1 in America and Europe and 32-1 in Japan.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']If you have read my posts previously, you would know that I have always touted the hard-coating as a plus, not just recently. And I don't care why they have to do the hard coating, I just care that they do and my discs are protected. And I haven't said anything about 51gb discs except we know nothing about them. We don't know if they are even going to be used, what old players have to do to read them, or if they can. If it's just a firmware update, I am completely fine with that because that's what blu-ray players need to read new movies and BD-J. It's just some of your HD-DVD fan boys tout these 51gb discs as the savior of HD-DVD and the downfall of Blu-ray, and don't know anything about them, and always bash Blu-ray for firmware updates when HD-DVD drives need the same thing and will possibly need to, to read these new 51gb discs, if that's what's necessary.[/quote]

Don't forget, of course, that there appears to be this implicit assumption that, somehow, the falling marketshare of HD DVD will turn around if the 51GB disc hits. Which is untrue and places too much faith in the knowledge of the average shopper. They don't care about lossless audio or HD extras. That does not change that the extra disc space is not a bonus for Blu-Ray, however - irrespective of whether average folks can appreciate it, they deserve the space to be utilized with both the look and the sound of (haha!) perfect. Not just the former.

And Transformers had fewer than 5GB of unused disc space on the disc. Not enough for a lossless track. We can go rounds on this, though.

Are Blu-ray guys desperate? Have you read some of the HD-DVD counter-argument's recently? And yes, all of us Blu-ray guys are desperate as we are outselling HD-DVD 2 to 1 in America and Europe and 32-1 in Japan.
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Yes, the HD DVD crowd counterarguments are getting even more amusing; you even have shills like Amir promoting this strange sort of "truce" (as if it is his or HD DVD's to offer! HA!) and promoting dual format players and going after DVD's market.

Let's be clear:
US: 2-1
Europe: 3-1
Japan: 9-1

Any other significant ratios?
 
Geez should have never read through this thread. Hope my HD-DVD purchase holds on. Or at least when the dual players come through.

I have no dog in this hunt. My bro wanted a HD player, he did a lot for me this year and I could afford the HD-DVD player.
 
[quote name='figcoinc']Geez should have never read through this thread. Hope my HD-DVD purchase holds on. Or at least when the dual players come through.

I have no dog in this hunt. My bro wanted a HD player, he did a lot for me this year and I could afford the HD-DVD player.[/QUOTE]

That's quite nice of you; HD DVD will surely be releasing movies for the better part of 2008, so there's no need to be paranoid that it'll all fall apart for another 12 months or so.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
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There, a gift. That's cordial.[/quote]

Wow.

I understand you were excited about posting that as a "zing" of sorts, but really, take some time to make sense.

"5 out of 10 high-def movies sold Transformers week were HD-DVD"

I get what you were attempting, but really, make a better attepmt.
 
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