Game of Thrones discussion thread - Season 5 debuts April 12th

gunnm said:
That's why people are mad because in the book he didn't rape her in the tv show he did
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I am well aware as I've read the books. I guess the director/script writer are entitled to change the story. I just didn't see a need for it.

 
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gunnm said:
yeah I agree cersei was supposed to say no but at the end you're supposed to see she finally gave in but it was still technically rape
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Forcing someone to give into having sex with you is still rape.

Which is what you said, but you said it all weird i don't know.

 
Indignate said:
Forcing someone to give into having sex with you is still rape.

Which is what you said, but you said it all weird i don't know.
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The book gives off a completely different vibe, more along the lines of makeup sex/mourning rather than rape. If I remember correctly in the book Cersei is reluctant to have sex with Jamie but gives in to her urges, she enjoys it. It just has a completely different feel than what was portrayed in the scene last night.

 
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gunnm said:
yeah rape is fine...
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Yeah that's exactly what I said. Anyway.



There's this.

What's surprising is the episode's director Alex Graves tells Hitfix that he sees the scene as "[becoming] consensual by the end, because anything for them ultimately results in a turn-on, especially a power struggle."
 
kill3r7 said:
The book gives off a completely different vibe, more along the lines of makeup sex/mourning rather than rape. If I remember correctly in the book Cersei is reluctant to have sex with Jamie but gives in to her urges, she enjoys it. It just has a completely different feel than what was portrayed in the scene last night.
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That is how it's done in the books. The beginning part in the TV show is the same as from the books, though much more consensual by the time it's going and nowhere the forced aspect of it that you're seeing.

It's a big turnaround from when Cersei first sees Jaime again and wants nothing to do with him, of course.

 
I didn't mind that scene at all. Someone on reddit already put it best, this episode was a great reminder that all those people they've been having us think aren't too bad lately are actually still pieces of shit.

the hound robs a friendly farmer, Ygritte kills a man in cold blood who is speaking to his children, Jaime rapes his sister, and they pointed out little finger as well but I've never thought that guy did anything redeeming. Hell, they even pointedly show us that the seemingly altruistic jester Sansa saved earlier only to have him help whisk her out of the city was mostly just in it for the payday
 
RedvsBlue said:
I didn't mind that scene at all. Someone on reddit already put it best, this episode was a great reminder that all those people they've been having us think aren't too bad lately are actually still pieces of shit.

the hound robs a friendly farmer, Ygritte kills a man in cold blood who is speaking to his children, Jaime rapes his sister, and they pointed out little finger as well but I've never thought that guy did anything redeeming. Hell, they even pointedly show us that the seemingly altruistic jester Sansa saved earlier only to have him help whisk her out of the city was mostly just in it for the payday
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yeah pretty much its like hey you guys are starting to warm up to these characters well stop cause they're cunts still

 
I thought they were going to do it on top of Goffery for a moment.  And if the show really wanted to take it to the next level, they would have had him participate.

Also, no means yes.

 
Honestly, reading the scene from the book, it looks like they just stopped short of Cersai saying "do me now my dear brother," in the show.

Regardless, both scenes make Jaime look terrible so the effect is still there. At least now people might actually pity Cersai?

 
Indignate said:
Honestly, reading the scene from the book, it looks like they just stopped short of Cersai saying "do me now my dear brother," in the show.

Regardless, both scenes make Jaime look terrible so the effect is still there. At least now people might actually pity Cersai?
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What if like some people were watching it and were like she deserved it. Did you see that dress she was wearing?

 
Honestly, I was most impressed that Jaime was able to undo his britches and whatever clasps were on Cersei's outfit with one hand. He lost a few points for partly just ripping Cersei's clothes off though.

 
yeah, this is why i refused to read the books. cross referencing after any discrepancy between the show and text just sounds like it'd sour the whole deal. the scene with jaime wasn't all that out of place for the show, and next week's preview seems to show that cersei has warmed up to him, now that she has become her hateful self again. 

sam is starting to interest me. i mean, he's awful, but if he continues down this road of insecurity and jealousy, and actually comes to an end from it, i think that'd be truly something else. but if it's another dweeb-to-hero deal, then i think that'd cement him as the worst character on the show. him or shea.

 
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Saw these on gaf but they stole them from reddit so I'm okay with stealing them.

112402-Jaime-Lannister-diarrhea-gif-I-2QBd.gif
tumblr_n41ydbFwx61qzmur7o1_400.gif
e0zznhJ.gif


UbWN1KH.gif


 
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Good GIFs.  The one for Tyrion doing his dance we may not see until Ep 5 if the trial isn't until then. 

The first one and the last one are the best, IMO.

 
I mean, there are White Walkers and then there are Wights. They probably just need things to be alive to turn them into White Walkers as oppose to necromancing dead things into Wights.

 
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if danasarieieas  can rally together a bunch of savages with this much ease she really needs to visit camden

 
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Indignate said:
Book readers are so upset at this season.
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There's some small changes that aren't that odd, though last night had some big WTF moments.

EDIT: One more that I just thought about:

In the books, Brienne runs across Pod while she's out and about looking for Sansa, with Pod looking more like a lost puppy than normal. She doesn't leave with him from King's Landing, that's for certain.

 
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I'm not upset. Just confused because I'm never sure if it's a change or if it's because my memory is wrong.

I don't get all up in arms about changed like Bronn teaching Jamie.
 
Confucius said:
I'm not upset. Just confused because I'm never sure if it's a change or if it's because my memory is wrong.

I don't get all up in arms about changed like Bronn teaching Jamie.
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I know it's had me start going back to re-read the books again, at least for what should be in this season.

The change from Bronn teaching Jamie to Ser Ilyn teaching Jamie is a minor one, though it was due to the show writers having expanded Bronn's role from books to show an immense amount. It accomplishes the same reasons for the need for Jamie's teacher not speaking about what they were doing, though there's some interesting "dialogue" between Ilyn and Jamie that occurs in the books.

 
Sorry for the double post, though this is an supposed episode list for the S4 episodes, as well as runtimes:

4.01 Two Swords (59 minutes)
4.02 The Lion and the Rose (53 minutes)
4.03 Breaker of Chains (57 minutes)
4.04 Oathkeeper (56 minutes)
?4.05 First of His Name (54 minutes)?
4.06 The Laws of Gods and Men (51 minutes)?
4.07 Mockingbird (52 minutes)?
4.08 The Mountain and the Viper (53 minutes)
?4.09 The Watchers on the Wall (51 minutes)
?4.10 The Children (66 minutes)

Of note is that the last episode is 66 minutes long, longest episode of any of them.  Ep #8 looks like it should have some great moments in it, as does #9.

 
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[quote name="shrike4242" post="11723685" timestamp="1398809808"]Sorry for the double post, though this is an supposed episode list for the S4 episodes, as well as runtimes:

4.01 Two Swords (59 minutes)
4.02 The Lion and the Rose (53 minutes)
4.03 Breaker of Chains (57 minutes)
4.04 Oathkeeper (56 minutes)
?4.05 First of His Name (54 minutes)?
4.06 The Laws of Gods and Men (51 minutes)?
4.07 Mockingbird (52 minutes)?
4.08 The Mountain and the Viper (53 minutes)
?4.09 The Watchers on the Wall (51 minutes)
?4.10 The Children (66 minutes)

Of note is that the last episode is 66 minutes long, longest episode of any of them. Ep #8 looks like it should have some great moments in it, as does #9.[/quote]

The last 3 episodes will be epic. As I've said before, the first 3 books were excellent and the pacing was spot on. I'm interested to see what they do with books 4 and 5 pacing wise.
 
kill3r7 said:
The last 3 episodes will be epic. As I've said before, the first 3 books were excellent and the pacing was spot on. I'm interested to see what they do with books 4 and 5 pacing wise.
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Will have to combine 4 and 5 for the parts that over lap time wise (the books for those that dont know were split geographically, the entire book 4 is only one area and the first half or so of book 5 covers other areas but in parallel time, the time in book 5 catches up to time from book 4 and then goes past it) and then continue with the last bit of 5. Depending on how much if any they cut out from shitty book 4, will be at least 2 seasons to cover timeframe of book 4, first bit of book 5, and then another season, maybe 2, for the rest of book 5.

Im about done with the show. The changes to bran are just stupid. Spoilers ahead.

First off, no coldhands or at least introducing him too late. Coldhands is who gets sam to the wall and tells him that bran is there at the wall and what to do, basically gives bran is direction to go and appears later to help them north of the wall.

The character at the wall from the show that comes in who was with the group that cut off jaimes arm in the show is not the same character from the book and that is tragic. Vargo Hoat in the book was awesome. That slobbering lisping asshole was a great villain. He also never went to the wall like this character who replaced him does. Jon never goes to get the guys at craster's. Just doesnt even remotely come into play, I dont think they are ever mentioned again in the books. Bran does not get captured by the mutineers and ghost is not kept by them. Ghost is just not in the book for a while and then just shows up at the wall. Literally. Just shows up. Jon left him when before he joined the wildlings and told him to go to the wall. He dreams of him a couple of times I think, but nothing about what is going on in the show.

Gonna see how this plays out but it keeps going father and farther from the books.

The bit about bronn training jaime is also stupid. In the book Ilyn payne, who has been in the show, hes the guy cut off ned's head, is the one who trains jaime. Why? No tongue, cant let people know how bad jaime is. Also it doesnt happen at kings landing, happens on the road to
riverrun to break the seige of riverrun which in the book takes a bit as jaime makes a few stops on the way

The supposed rape scene is completely different in the book from a motivation standpoint. Basically happened the same way in the book BUT and huge but, jaime aint been there!!!!!!!!!! HE gets back to kings landing AFTER joffery has died. ITs their REUINION scene in the book. completely changes the whole deal.

I dont understand why you would change major things like when jaime gets to the castle as they completely change his character from what is in the show right now. They are some pretty damn good books that dont really need anything to be added or changed from the major plot points other than to condense things. Like the pod bit, yea she meets him by chance looking for sansa but him joining her from the start just cuts down on her story of looking for her so doesnt really change anything yet.

Edit: Oh and about what fu stated that he kinda likes the show deviating from the book to keep it fresh for him, im obviously not that type of watcher. I like knowing whats supposed to come, the books have so many great scenes that when they come up on the show I cant wait to see them acted out. And then the show continues to let me down and piss me off. One of the greatest disappointments to me was Tyrion meeting Oberyn. In the book they have this GREAT scene of riding together into town and doing some banter back and forth. In the show he finds him already in the brothel and they have parts of their talk in that scene in the show, but its just not nearly as good as the book scene and could have been soooo much better on the show. As good as the show may be to people who havent read the books, people who read the books just think and know it could be EVEN better if it was closer to the source material. The books are so loved for a reason....

 
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kilik64 said:
Will have to combine 4 and 5 for the parts that over lap time wise (the books for those that dont know were split geographically, the entire book 4 is only one area and the first half or so of book 5 covers other areas but in parallel time, the time in book 5 catches up to time from book 4 and then goes past it) and then continue with the last bit of 5. Depending on how much if any they cut out from shitty book 4, will be at least 2 seasons to cover timeframe of book 4, first bit of book 5, and then another season, maybe 2, for the rest of book 5.

Im about done with the show. The changes to bran are just stupid. Spoilers ahead.

First off, no coldhands or at least introducing him too late. Coldhands is who gets sam to the wall and tells him that bran is there at the wall and what to do, basically gives bran is direction to go and appears later to help them north of the wall.

The character at the wall from the show that comes in who was with the group that cut off jaimes arm in the show is not the same character from the book and that is tragic. Vargo Hoat in the book was awesome. That slobbering lisping asshole was a great villain. He also never went to the wall like this character who replaced him does. Jon never goes to get the guys at craster's. Just doesnt even remotely come into play, I dont think they are ever mentioned again in the books. Bran does not get captured by the mutineers and ghost is not kept by them. Ghost is just not in the book for a while and then just shows up at the wall. Literally. Just shows up. Jon left him when before he joined the wildlings and told him to go to the wall. He dreams of him a couple of times I think, but nothing about what is going on in the show.

Gonna see how this plays out but it keeps going father and farther from the books.

The bit about bronn training jaime is also stupid. In the book Ilyn payne, who has been in the show, hes the guy cut off ned's head, is the one who trains jaime. Why? No tongue, cant let people know how bad jaime is. Also it doesnt happen at kings landing, happens on the road to
riverrun to break the seige of riverrun which in the book takes a bit as jaime makes a few stops on the way

The supposed rape scene is completely different in the book from a motivation standpoint. Basically happened the same way in the book BUT and huge but, jaime aint been there!!!!!!!!!! HE gets back to kings landing AFTER joffery has died. ITs their REUINION scene in the book. completely changes the whole deal.

I dont understand why you would change major things like when jaime gets to the castle as they completely change his character from what is in the show right now. They are some pretty damn good books that dont really need anything to be added or changed from the major plot points other than to condense things. Like the pod bit, yea she meets him by chance looking for sansa but him joining her from the start just cuts down on her story of looking for her so doesnt really change anything yet.

Edit: Oh and about what fu stated that he kinda likes the show deviating from the book to keep it fresh for him, im obviously not that type of watcher. I like knowing whats supposed to come, the books have so many great scenes that when they come up on the show I cant wait to see them acted out. And then the show continues to let me down and piss me off. One of the greatest disappointments to me was Tyrion meeting Oberyn. In the book they have this GREAT scene of riding together into town and doing some banter back and forth. In the show he finds him already in the brothel and they have parts of their talk in that scene in the show, but its just not nearly as good as the book scene and could have been soooo much better on the show. As good as the show may be to people who havent read the books, people who read the books just think and know it could be EVEN better if it was closer to the source material. The books are so loved for a reason....
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Last I read, HBO planned to complete the show in 7 or 8 seasons. So, that only leaves 3 to 4 seasons for them to cover books 4-7. It also means in all likelihood they'll finish the series before GRRM is done writing book 7. I think they have no choice but to deviate somewhat from the books. Personally, I'm fine with it as the show still captures the essence of the books.

 
kill3r7 said:
Last I read, HBO planned to complete the show in 7 or 8 seasons. So, that only leaves 3 to 4 seasons for them to cover books 4-7. It also means in all likelihood they'll finish the series before GRRM is done writing book 7. I think they have no choice but to deviate somewhat from the books. Personally, I'm fine with it as the show still captures the essence of the books.
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They'll exceed that, since they're already a go for season 5 + 6, which should take them into the 5th book plot-wise and time-wise. There's still two books to go and as GRRM has told the show writers what happens with the characters, there's just no way to capture it properly with 7 or 8 seasons. I know HBO is hell-bent on 10 episode seasons, though even if they just expanded it to 12 episode seasons, they could make it 8 seasons and hopefully cover everything major to the end of the books.

I know the show takes a lot of money to make at $8-10M+ per episode, though I know they're rolling in money hand over fist from BD sales and subscriptions just for GOT.

 
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shrike4242 said:
They'll exceed that, since they're already a go for season 5 + 6, which should take them into the 5th book plot-wise and time-wise. There's still two books to go and as GRRM has told the show writers what happens with the characters, there's just no way to capture it properly with 7 or 8 seasons. I know HBO is hell-bent on 10 episode seasons, though even if they just expanded it to 12 episode seasons, they could make it 8 seasons and hopefully cover everything major to the end of the books.

I know the show takes a lot of money to make at $8-10M+ per episode, though I know they're rolling in money hand over fist from BD sales and subscriptions just for GOT.
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Agreed, completing the series in 8 seasons will be incredibly challenging. I believe the worry is that the cost per episode will increase significantly after season 6 because that's when the current actor contracts expire. It is safe to say a few of them are due a pay rise. That said, TV execs are never one to leave money on the table and if the show continues to be a hit for HBO I would be shocked it they didn't re-up it for at least season 9 or 10.

 
kill3r7 said:
Agreed, completing the series in 8 seasons will be incredibly challenging. I believe the worry is that the cost per episode will increase significantly after season 6 because that's when the current actor contracts expire. It is safe to say a few of them are due a pay rise. That said, TV execs are never one to leave money on the table and if the show continues to be a hit for HBO I would be shocked it they didn't re-up it for at least season 9 or 10.
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If HBO was smart, they'd expand seasons 5 & 6 into more than 10 episodes and they should be able to cover additional work without any additional raises. If they expand to 12 episodes for Seasons 5 and beyond, they would have 8 additional episodes to work with in the upcoming four seasons.

I'm sure if they do have to go renew contracts for beyond S6, they will make sure they lock it down for the seasons they're planning on (two additional) and give themselves an out if they need to do more than 8, which they most likely will. I can't imagine any of the actors are tied up for the entire season since there aren't many, if any, that are on-screen for all 10 episodes of a season.

 
Don't put it past HBO to cancel a show before it is completed.  Look at what they did with Deadwood and Rome, and those were two of their better series.  They just cost too much to produce and they decided they didn't want to foot the bill.

 
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