Halo 3 - General Discussion & Info

i did it coop with 3 other guys...they went in and murdered everyone then i did the jumping...got it the 1st try...make sure you start from the beginning of the level
 
Yea like it was said go through and kill the prophet then come all the way back and kill all the flood. Stop at the very end of the level (don't deop down the hole) then just go back and jump through the rings in the right order and you will get it.
 
[quote name='LostRoad']Do you know if this is the right combo 4 6 5 4 5 3 4?[/QUOTE]
Start with 5.

That combo never worked for me until I did that.
 
Make sure you start from the beginning. Make sure you have campaign scoring and all the skulls OFF, and make sure you kill ALL of the enemies before you start jumping the rings.

And, of course, make sure you have the right jumping order.
 
One of the frustrating aspects of Halo 3 is the current melee system, which Bungie claims is "not broken" but now is fixing something that was supposedly "not broken." Okay then.

Here is the Quote from Bungie's weekly update:
One of the other fixes we’re looking at more carefully, is a gameplay tweak. Melee has certainly worked in Halo 3, but seen more than its fair share of criticism. We’re working to remedy some of its actual flaws, and perhaps just as importantly make aesthetic changes to some of its apparent flaws. As ever, we’re applying our not inconsiderable test resources to this matter – but more vitally, since much of the complaint comes from the community, competitive and otherwise, we’re working with that community to make sure that the revamped melee is a thing of beauty. We’ll tell you more about that process and more importantly, update you on when you can expect this change, in the next couple of weeks.
Click to expand...
http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=13174

And you could hear the real Halo fans cheering, as everyone else is like "WTF, who curz, gaylo sux?"

But this is pretty big news, and could potentially bring people back to the game. All that is left is for the fix to come out.

My hunch on the fixes release? I guess it'll come out when the spring maps are released.
 
Awesome, the melee system annoyed the piss out of me. Buy the time the patch is out, I'll probably be sick of CoD4 and ready to give Halo 3 another go.
 
[quote name='help1']But this is pretty big news, and could potentially bring people back to the game. All that is left is for the fix to come out.[/quote]

Only thing that will get me back into Halo 3 is if they add audio options to the game, and I doubt that will happen. :cry:
 
[quote name='help1']One of the frustrating aspects of Halo 3 is the current melee system, which Bungie claims is "not broken" but now is fixing something that was supposedly "not broken." Okay then.

Here is the Quote from Bungie's weekly update:

http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=13174

And you could hear the real Halo fans cheering, as everyone else is like "WTF, who curz, gaylo sux?"

But this is pretty big news, and could potentially bring people back to the game. All that is left is for the fix to come out.

My hunch on the fixes release? I guess it'll come out when the spring maps are released.[/quote]

Dont forget to fix the BR spread!
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Awesome, the melee system annoyed the piss out of me. Buy the time the patch is out, I'll probably be sick of CoD4 and ready to give Halo 3 another go.[/quote]

Trust me, COD 4 has little to no depth. I'm so tired on the MP play, it is so shallow.
 
[quote name='help1']Trust me, COD 4 has little to no depth. I'm so tired on the MP play, it is so shallow.[/QUOTE]

I prefer it so far, both from the leveling/challenges and because it doesn't take so many shots to kill someone which helps me not suck quite as bad. :D
 
My friend is pissed at me because once I hit level 55 and go into prestige mode in CoD4 - I'm gonna take a break and go back to Halo 3. CoD4 is a great side game had me easily engaged for 30+ hours but Halo 3 is still where I want to go back to when I "retire". Both games have weaknesses but CoD4 is just as bad with the n00b tube, claymores, p90's and unstoppable snipers. If anything the framerate is something bungie should work on if they make another Halo to kill the gripes of the game being too slow.

Regardless, the melee system being fixed is perhaps the best news of the year in gaming so far. It's that broken in Halo 3 and needs to be fixed.
 
[quote name='VipFREAK']Wait... the maps will be free in spring?[/QUOTE]

Yes but who knows what Bungie considers "Spring". Could be August at this rate ;)
 
[quote name='soccerstud652']What exactly is wrong with the melee system?[/quote]

Well, hopefully they are moving towards a Halo 2 melee system, which IMO is the best one.

In Halo 3, it isn't about who hits who first, but rather who has more health, which makes meleeing useless for the person who has less health since it is supposed to be a clutch move.

In Halo 2, it was about timing, and the lounge wasn't as spotty as it is in Halo 3. In Halo 2 a person with no health could beat down and kill a person with half shields, depending on the weapon.
 
[quote name='help1']Well, hopefully they are moving towards a Halo 2 melee system, which IMO is the best one.

In Halo 3, it isn't about who hits who first, but rather who has more health, which makes meleeing useless for the person who has less health since it is supposed to be a clutch move.

In Halo 2, it was about timing, and the lounge wasn't as spotty as it is in Halo 3. In Halo 2 a person with no health could beat down and kill a person with half shields, depending on the weapon.[/quote]huh, i never knew that. i always felt that sometimes i got the hit in first but then i would be the dead one.
 
[quote name='triforcer']huh, i never knew that. i always felt that sometimes i got the hit in first but then i would be the dead one.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it sucks as is because it's just a crap shoot.

For instance, if you're in a one on one and have both been closing in shooting each other with the assault rifle and then get close enough to melee, you have no idea which one of you has more health.

Really just needs to be first hit wins. I wouldn't even mind the melees just being a one hit kill period as well. Would make them more risky to attempt, and they pretty much already are since people tend to have taken damage by the time they get close enough to melee, or it's from behind and an assassination anyway.
 
[quote name='Bathory']I hope they fix the melee system back to OG Halo. Lounge FTL.[/quote]

Ehh, I wouldn't say that. I have grown to used to lounges, but with my button combo (bumper jumper) no lounges would be over powered since I could jsut run in circles and melee people using default controls.
 
I don't notice the melee "problem" much. If you're the type to get mad when playing games I can see how it could effect you. Basically what it is now for me is half the time I get jipped in not getting the kill and half the time he gets jipped.

When they change it to who hits first or whatever, it will actually probably be worse for most people since their connections aren't as good. I find Halo 3 more balanced than Halo 2 in this way. Halo 2 you either were good or not so good...halo 3 you find people on all levels...the "good" people still can own and the sucky ones get wasted, yet those in the middle always can find some way to at least even out.
 
The melee system needs to be fixed. Halo 2's melee was excellent. If we could go back to that, all would be dandy... Oh, and the grenade bounces as well...


And does anybody seem a bit... Underwealmed with the new maps? Yea, I like 'em. Rats Nest is my favorite. But, c'mon, can't we have more then 3? I really hope with the Spring Map pack, there's more then 3. Hopefully around 5ish. Maybe a remake or 2 *cough* Ascension *cough*
 
[quote name='defmonkey05']The melee system needs to be fixed. Halo 2's melee was excellent. If we could go back to that, all would be dandy... Oh, and the grenade bounces as well...


And does anybody seem a bit... Underwealmed with the new maps? Yea, I like 'em. Rats Nest is my favorite. But, c'mon, can't we have more then 3? I really hope with the Spring Map pack, there's more then 3. Hopefully around 5ish. Maybe a remake or 2 *cough* Ascension *cough*[/quote]

it feels underwhelming cause i never frikin get these maps while playing ranked (at least, very rarely) matches, it seems that the only way i can get these maps is if i go to the dedicated playlist. hopefully when they become free, they will be integrated better into the playlists
 
[quote name='omgu8myrice']it feels underwhelming cause i never frikin get these maps while playing ranked (at least, very rarely) matches, it seems that the only way i can get these maps is if i go to the dedicated playlist. hopefully when they become free, they will be integrated better into the playlists[/quote]

It is the way they are integrated into matchmaking. Everyone in the matchmade part needs to have the maps to even have a chance to play the maps. This will definitely be remedied when they are free, since everyone will have them.
 
I really wish i hadn't bought the map packs because

1.They didnt make a good playlist dedicated to them imo
2.They are gona be free
3.Call of Duty 4


I know its my bad for buying them, but i thought they would have had a better playlist for them.
 
[quote name='BackInBlack']I really wish i hadn't bought the map packs because

1.They didnt make a good playlist dedicated to them imo
2.They are gona be free
3.Call of Duty 4


I know its my bad for buying them, but i thought they would have had a better playlist for them.[/QUOTE]
I will personally never buy a map pack because a majority of people will never pay for something that will be free. It was the same with the Red and Black packs for R6:Vegas, why would you pay to play with the other 4 people who own it?
 
[quote name='lordwow']I will personally never buy a map pack because a majority of people will never pay for something that will be free. It was the same with the Red and Black packs for R6:Vegas, why would you pay to play with the other 4 people who own it?[/quote]

lol? When the first Halo 2 mappack came out,it was a big deal, and alot of people were playing them, and im pretty sure they were more intergral in the matchmaking. So i obviously didnt buy them because i thought everyone would buy it. I bought it because i thought it would actually have come with some good playlists.
 
I just got this email about the Halo 3 Play and Win Contest from awhile back...



Is it legit, I'm really having doubts, as I figured the prizes were already handed out, but knowing how some of these contests go, who knows...
 
yea it is.. but during halloween, they had a temporary playlist for it, which was pretty fun...some people want a playlist, but everyone who does needs to convince bungie that ppl would actually play it and not make it a ghost playlist
 
I wish they would make it permanent too. Me and my best friend made maps in forge specifically for this. They were really top notch too, we spent hours and hours on then. Only bad thing is that we don't have like 10 friends who own a 360 to play a big battle on.

I also want Multi-Team back!
 
This is the game type i want available on match making since halloween when they enabled it. I hate it it's on only available on custom match.
 
Yeah, that was a lot of fun on Haloween. Some of the modes like where the zombies are invisible helps sucky players like me get more kills than usual!
 
Well today I remember playing team control and the game was territories on foundry. I was suprised to see foundry pop out of nowhere. Maybe because it was 3 vs. 3. I bet if it was 8 players, foundry would have never showed up.
 
The Melee fix and all its glory (I hope) will be included in the Halo 3 auto-update set to be released at the end of THIS MONTH.

We're in the final phase of readying the auto update, which is a short way of saying, we’re getting ready to hand it off to the kind folks in Certification, where, like Ivan Drago, the AU will be run through a series of rigidly scientific tests that last for indeterminable amounts of time. That said, barring catastrophe and disaster, the auto update will be injected into your Xbox 360 later this month.​
We've solidified what will appear in the auto update in addition to the oft-mentioned adjustment to Halo 3’s melee. There’s a bunch of uninteresting behind the scenes fixes that will likely be completely invisible to the player and a handful of more pronounced changes coming to Halo 3:

OMG Fix Mayleeey, Bungle!
Multiplayer Design Lead Tyson Green checked in with a lengthy explanation of the melee system in Halo 3, how it’s different from Halo 2’s what worked about both versions, what didn’t work and how it’s being addressed by the auto update.
Tyson says:

"The Short Version
Melee contests will only produce a winner if he has a sizeable health advantage over the loser. Otherwise, both players may die in the clash.

What Halo 2 Did
Put simply, in Halo 2, whoever threw the first melee won. Sounds perfect, right? Not quite.
Get your Einstein on, we’re going to talk about relativity. Specifically, the relative observations of host versus client. In Halo 3, across our entire population, we observe an average latency between host and client of around 80-100ms, which is around three frames. Assuming 90ms of latency, consider what happens when the host and client both throw melee attacks at exactly the same time. The host will see the client’s melee attack as many as three frames later, while the client will see the host’s melee attack three frames later. Who attacked first?
Well, in the halcyon days of Halo 2, the host made that determination. Which means his melee was first and the client lost the melee fight far more often than they should have. And in the event of two clients attacking simultaneously, the one with lower latency to the host would appear to have attacked first, and would be the winner. In a peer-to-peer environment with latency, it is nigh impossible to determine exactly who attacked first.
Over Halo 2’s three years online, many people adapted and got used to preemptively throwing a melee, but it was still fundamentally unfair in favor of the host or people with faster connections.
So, to be clear and upfront, we will not be returning to those days of letting the host win when the outcome is in doubt, aka. first melee wins.

The Halo 3 “Fix”
In Halo 3, there is explicit special treatment for what is called a “melee contest”, which occurs when two melee attacks occur almost simultaneously. Specifically, when the host starts to throw a melee attack, there is a short window after that (three frames, or approximately 100ms) during which the host will watch for a retaliatory melee attack. If one arrives inside that window, it is a contest. Besides smoothing out the latency differences between clients (it works the same way when one client melees another), this allows a client with a ping as high as 100ms to compete with the host on a far more even footing than Halo 2 allowed.
So now we have the contests, but how are they resolved? Having determined that we cannot trust timing in an environment with latency, we instead use the remaining health (including shields) of the contestants as the tie-breaker. This is about as fair as you can get, within the conventions of Halo—the guy who did more damage comes out on top. Specifically, the winner of the contest still takes melee damage from the loser, but is protected from death and lives to fight another day.
On paper, this method addresses the host advantage (among others) and is scrupulously fair. There’s just one problem:

The Fatal Flaw
Halo 3’s system is inscrutable. This is most famously illustrated by a splitscreen film (eliminating latency as a factor) of two players running at each other, firing, and throwing melee attacks on the same frame. One drops dead, and it isn’t clear why, so the result is declared to be random. The real reason is, of course, that one player landed one or two more bullets than the other, but that isn’t anywhere near obvious.
Any time you have a game system which players cannot understand, it might as well be random. No matter how fair the tiebreaker may be, if a single Assault Rifle bullet can slip by and decide the outcome, it might as well be random. And randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution.

Addressing the Flaw
We considered and ultimately rejected some ideas that could have made melee contests produce a less inscrutable result. A major consideration was that we wanted to minimize the impact on how Halo 3 plays to the greatest degree possible, while still addressing the problem. Radically changing the mechanics of melee combat is not something we want at this point.
Ultimately, the change is targeted at the unpredictable outcome of a contest. Simply stated, it works like this: when a melee contest occurs, and both players are close to the same health (including shields), no special protection is given to either player. This means the outcome of a close melee contest can be death for both participants, but that a player who decisively injures his opponent prior to closing for a melee will continue to enjoy the victorious outcome.
For those of you uninterested in the precise details, the upshot is this: if you close for a melee attack and are at a clear advantage (or disadvantage), the outcome will be clear. If the outcome is unclear, too close to call, you will likely trade kills with your victim. But you should no longer watch your opponent saunter away for no clear reason (and if you do, check the film—it tells all.)

The Nitty Gritty
If you’re still reading, you’re probably interested in some details, so we won’t skimp.
A player in MP has a grand total of 115 hit points (to adopt a common term.) 45 of these are body hit points, 70 are shield hit points. For reference, a single AR bullet does 7.5 points of damage, and a BR bullet does 6. A melee attack does 70 for most weapons, with some weapons (notably the Brute weapons) doing 72.
When entering a melee contest, the combined body and shield hit points are compared. If the difference is above a threshold, then one player is determined to have won decisively and is protected from death. After testing with a variety of weapons, we settled on a threshold of 26.5 hit points (slightly rounded.) This translates into 4+ AR bullets worth of damage to decisively win a melee contest, instead of simply having 1 more hit point than the other guy.
There is one more wrinkle to this: your invisible body hit points do recharge, but at a different rate from your shields. While ordinarily this is a non-issue (we’ve always made this largely transparent), it can affect the outcome of a contest. For those of you keeping score, body hit points start regenerating 10 seconds after last taking damage, at a rate of 9 hp/sec. So if your shields are up but you’re fresh from taking a beating, you could still be in trouble in a contest.

YMMV, etc.
Despite our best efforts, this system cannot cover all cases: if your latency is beyond 100ms, you can still get into situations where the host legitimately believes that your melee did not arrive in time. In testing, we did catch a couple of films where perfectly balanced, simultaneous melee attacks produced an unexpected winner. But these were films recorded by the client—the host film told a different story, showing a very late melee.
The moral: when in doubt, check the host’s film, because latency still matters. Just a whole lot less than Halo 2.
Also, while we were in there, we excised a BXB-style glitch before it gathered popularity, and fixed that strangeness where bodies would be hurled with unearthly force by a mid-melee death. We sincerely apologize to people who enjoyed the latter bug—it was pretty funny."
Click to expand...

http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=13233

Refuse to read the wall-of-text? Here is a summary:

The Halo 3 melee is being fixed, but Bungie believes that the Halo 2 system was broken as well, and is trying something totally new that should be fair to both the host and the client.
 
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