It Took 18 Seconds to Realize I Wasted $65 on WrestleMania Wrestling Thread

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[quote name='BlueSwim']I believe a couple of threads back I posted something questioning whether or not the WWE could make Brock a credible opponent to anyone after the way his final UFC match ended.[/QUOTE]

Did you notice Brock's entrance wasn't the same as it used to be though? With his injuries, I wonder how 100% he is. I was hoping like hell he'd do his leap from the floor to the apron bit to get in the ring. That was a good bit of his intimidation factor. I also LOL'd at Cole calling Lesnar a "freak", as if to say "look at this chowder head copying Scott Steiner's sword tattoo".
 
2612cl5.jpg

Love this pic.
 
[quote name='pitfallharry219']It kind of bugged me how Cena just stayed still, not even kicking his leg or anything.[/QUOTE]

Kind of like how he rolled right out of the ring and just sat there after losing to the Rock last night?
 
[quote name='xilly']Did you notice Brock's entrance wasn't the same as it used to be though? With his injuries, I wonder how 100% he is. I was hoping like hell he'd do his leap from the floor to the apron bit to get in the ring. That was a good bit of his intimidation factor. I also LOL'd at Cole calling Lesnar a "freak", as if to say "look at this chowder head copying Scott Steiner's sword tattoo".[/QUOTE]LOL! I noticed the lackluster entrance, too. I'm just going to chalk it up to WWE ring rust for the moment. He might have forgotten what he used to do for his entrance.:lol::lol::lol:

[quote name='Scorch']
2612cl5.jpg

Love this pic.[/QUOTE]Is Cena smiling or has he been studying Johnny Ace's GTS reaction for selling pointers?
 
[quote name='pitfallharry219']It kind of bugged me how Cena just stayed still, not even kicking his leg or anything.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, he Laurenitis'd that spot good.
 
You know what? In all the commotion over 18-second WHC matches, terrible performances by meth addicts, and impromptu F5's, we forgot something: In the end, Kane was Right. Cena didn't embrace the hate, and as a result lost to The Rock.
 
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BOOM!

also, missed this on the broadcast:

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This crowd was truly one in a million.

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Can someone explain to me why that match lasted 18 seconds? I don't understand but I haven't been following wrestling at all since like the early 2000s
 
[quote name='MillerTime2523']Can someone explain to me why that match lasted 18 seconds? I don't understand but I haven't been following wrestling at all since like the early 2000s[/QUOTE]

Because fuck wrestling. We have to promote Deadliest Catch, The Today Show, some wigger 90% of the crowd never heard of, and The Rock's friend, that's why.
 
[quote name='Purple Flames']Because fuck wrestling. We have to promote Deadliest Catch, The Today Show, some wigger 90% of the crowd never heard of, and The Rock's friend, that's why.[/QUOTE]

Also, Sheamus is "homegrown"—regardless of the fact that he had something of a career in Europe—while Danielson is "an outsider" because he worked his ass off in the dwindling U.S. independents. Because fuck hard work and determination, if WWE didn't "make you" you're jobbing in 18 seconds.

Thankfully, Danielson is still making WWE money. Hopefully, that softens some stupid ass booking.

Somewhat of a blanket statement, but I'll run with it: If anyone puts this episode of Raw on blast, they should stop posting in these threads. I can be as cynical as the next tenured wrasslin fan, but this was a hot show. It's rare when we can actually enjoy WWE's product. So, enjoy it.

Diverticulitis ended Lesnar's MMA career, but he should be fine wrasslin semi-regularly for a year. It's not like he's going to be crazy and agree to do Ziggler-type spots. I wonder how much control Lesnar has over his booking. Can't imagine he'd agree to return if he's just jobbed out to SuperCena.

And we gotta get something Punk-Lesnar. That's an idea I'm just absolutely hyped to see. You'd have a former, legit fighter versus a wrassler who wishes he could be a fighter. I love that dynamic. The promos would be killer.
 
[quote name='xilly']Did you notice Brock's entrance wasn't the same as it used to be though? With his injuries, I wonder how 100% he is.[/QUOTE]

Sure, his mannerisms are different, but he hasn't been in a WWE ring in 8 years. Cut the dude some slack.

[quote name='pitfallharry219']It kind of bugged me how Cena just stayed still, not even kicking his leg or anything.[/QUOTE]

Yep.

WWE picks some odd words to use at times. I noticed Cole called Lesnar "the anomaly," which isn't exactly a great nickname. Also, I'm 90% certain that, during the Undertaker/Triple H match, Jim Ross referred to Undertaker's "carcinogenic" punches.

:lol: Using big words incorrectly reeks of Vince McMahon.
 
Watching that Daniel Bryan video, awesome. That crowd was amazing. How many crowds are so hyped up that they continue a chant on the way out the building? What the hell?!
 
[quote name='Chase']And we gotta get something Punk-Lesnar. That's an idea I'm just absolutely hyped to see. You'd have a former, legit fighter versus a wrassler who wishes he could be a fighter. I love that dynamic. The promos would be killer.[/QUOTE]

I dunno. Lesnar's not so great on the mic. I remember Heyman doing a lot of talking for him. We'll see though.

[quote name='mykevermin']Sure, his mannerisms are different, but he hasn't been in a WWE ring in 8 years. Cut the dude some slack.[/QUOTE]

Oh, I absolutely will. In truth though, knowing he had the stomach problems, I was waiting for his entrance into the ring through the whole intro. Even if he doesn't ever do it again, it's pretty damn cool to see Lesnar back.. plus, his theme song is still fucking awesome.
 
[quote name='xilly']I dunno. Lesnar's not so great on the mic. I remember Heyman doing a lot of talking for him. We'll see though.[/quote]

He got good heel heat in UFC, until Dana White made him apologize in his post-fight interview.

But you bring up an interesting thing indirectly. Heyman is in Lesnar's ear, his autobiographical co-author, his confidant. It's not impossible to think we'll see Heyman in WWE again, sure - but is it likely to happen?

The Heyman Hustle (whatever it is - some trash celeb blog?) isn't exactly setting the world on fire. It's certainly not an Internet Radio Revolution, that's for sure.

his theme song is still fucking awesome.
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For as many awful WWE themes as there are - there are fifteen BISCUITS AND GRAVAAAAAAAAAY! for every one good song - Jim Johnston's derivative guitar wanking hit the nail on the head for Lesnar.
 
That may very well be the best crowd of all time. Wwe should pull a TNA and just do raw in front of that crowd every week.
 
Not defending the commentating. Just pointing out that it's been ten years.

Didn't like Brock then and can't imagine his attitude has changed. Starting to actually feel bad for Cena now as he's taking this piss from two guys who haven't been around and have giant egos. The parallels to Sting continue.
 
This is all just going to be a happy distant memory when they go to Omaha (or whatever) and people are back to cheering the Great White Celtic Warrior and lazily booing Daniel Bryan. Hope last night was a catalyst for more than a few things to change and evolve, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Tongue-tied Cole made up a new word last night that somewhat resembled a cross between "animal" and "anomaly." Memories of "Kofi Rhodes" spring to mind.

Counting the days until WWE gets some c-level band to rerecord Lesnar's song and ruin it. I'm struggling to think of a situation where WWE gets an artist to redo a Jim Johnston song and it winds up better. I'll hear an argument for Batista. Not sure if Jim was around when Demolition debuted but they would be the only other one off the top of my head, and they only had their non-Derringer theme for like a month anyway.
 
Impressive return for Lesnar. Good to see that the fans still view him a relevant. But did he have to wear his grass mowin' shoes? Dude was dressed like he just left a Western Maryland gym and/or thrift store.
 
The crowd made that show. Period. If the crowd had been like for WM28, it would've been a completely different show.

All told, I'm going to have to go against the majority here. I don't care that Brock Lesnar is back. To me, I just see WWE replacing a guy who hasn't been around for 8 years with another guy who hasn't been around for 8 years, but with less charisma. Lesnar is physically impressive, but he loses me as soon as he starts speaking.

I don't want to sound like I'm bitching just to bitch here, but this is just maintaining the same shitty status quo that existed up through WM28. The focus is on returning stars, with the newer talent being pushed aside. Except, really, that the 'newer' talent isn't even all that new anymore. As a one-off, Lesnar's return was great. It still doesn't change the fact that WWE is putting the focus on a returning part-time star, all while ignoring that they jobbed out their WHC in 18 seconds. Same old, same old.

Plus, from a mercenary standpoint, the return of people like The Rock, Shawn Michaels, HHH, and The Undertaker did nothing to bump the pre-Mania ratings. Will Lesnar do what they couldn't? That's the one thing I'm curious to see.

Regardless... 'wait and see', right? fuck it. WWE hasn't earned it. Maybe they'll surprise the hell out of me, but they don't get me taking it on faith anymore.
 
[quote name='MrNEWZ']From previous thread:



I'd beg to differ. Undertaker's character debuted in November 1990 at the age of 26. Hunter Hearst Helmsley showed up in ads in early 1995, getting on TV regularly after Mania. Shortly after debuting on TV, he turned... 26.

Not many guys get pushes the way the Undertaker did in 1990-1992. Also, he was written off of TV for most of 1994 (Rumble-SummerSlam).

At the time of 1990-1991 when Undertaker debuted, many of the top stars were old or retiring. Guys in the match he debuted in were aging; Dusty Rhodes was 45 at the time. Ted Dibiase was 36 and had only 4 years of active wrestle status left in him. Bret Hart, a man who 2 years later would be closely associated with Shawn Michaels as the top acts that drove WWF from the Hogan Era to the Attitude Era was 33 when Undertaker debuted and didn't even get a real shot at a singles run (at the IC) at 34, during a time when the Undertaker was pinning Hulk Hogan at 27.

Contemporaries age wise, but not yet in the WWF (or back in the WWF in one case): Sid Vicious/Justice (31 in 1991 when he showed up for his less than a year stint, then 35 in 1995 when he returned, but at this point HHH was already there)... Bam Bam Bigelow (32 when he returned in 1992-1993)... Mick Foley (31 in 1996) is a pretty good contemporary, but his in ring career with WW(F)E lasted about 4 years.

A close example of a person who debuted and became a main eventer in the same era might be Yokozuna (who's been dead for almost 12 years) who debuted in 1992, 2 years later, at 26. Yokozuna was also long gone in by end of summer 1996, essentially done at 30 due to size and licensing issues.

------------

The Undertaker biker character debuted in 2000, shortly after WrestleMania 16 (or WM2000). From 1996-1999 the Undertaker's character was far more dark and gothic than the mysterious man who can never be hurt from 1990-1993. Undertaker was a large part of the Attitude Era and did have the Ministry of Darkness.

Considering Undertaker held the WWF Title for 6 days in 1991, but got a run in 1997 (as the Attitude Era kicked off) and then was a focal primary main level challenger to Austin in 1998 and then got runs with the belt in 1999, I'd venture to say you don't really know what you're talking about when it comes to what "Era" he had a run in.[/QUOTE]Most of the guys you mentioned are exactly the ones I'm talking about, those are the guys I remember watching Taker fight when he was coming up, not HHH. But like I said, many of those guys are either retired or dead by now, and Taker should have probably retired himself quite a while ago. I don't care if Taker and HHH are closer in age, that wasn't my point.
 
[quote name='007']The focus is on returning stars, with the newer talent being pushed aside.[/QUOTE]

Disagree. Punk and Sheamus are the champs. They are pushing new talent, but to some degree we're rejecting them.

Good god I hope we get crowds every week that heel on Sheamus like that and embrace the "YES!"
 
One has to wonder, what did Cena do to deserve the "retirement dust off tour" treatment? First we get Rock. Now we have Lesnar. Who's next? Goldberg? Scott Steiner just got released from TNA so maybe he can return for a run against Cena. Who else can they dig up for the "Retirement dust off tour?" Seriously, why not put him against up and comers to give them the rub they need rather than people who honestly only need a check or feel the need for some attention....
 
I'm not sure I buy the "because he's indie" as to why Daniel Bryan dropped the title in 18 seconds. The main reason I don't buy it is because if they were just out to bury indie talent then why have Punk retain? I think it basically came down to time. They realized that even with 4 hours they weren't gonna have enough time for everything.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Disagree. Punk and Sheamus are the champs. They are pushing new talent, but to some degree we're rejecting them.

Good god I hope we get crowds every week that heel on Sheamus like that and embrace the "YES!"[/QUOTE]

Some of the talent is being rejected, but I'd argue that it's more about WWE's booking than crowd apathy.

When was the last time a world title was honestly treated like a big deal? Where it was *the* focal point of Raw? More importantly, when was the last time any of those things happened and John Cena wasn't champion or challenger?

Being handed a world title doesn't mean what it used to, where it signified that you were the face of the company, being handed the ball, and various other cliches. So, unless WWE pushes a guy like he matters, the belt adds almost nothing. Is Miz stronger for his title run? What about Swagger or Del Rio? How about the 15 seconds that Ziggler got to be champion? Without a good booking foundation, the fans are going to reject a guy moving up the card, especially when it's booked as secondary to whatever Cena is doing.

It certainly doesn't help, either, that most of the newly anointed champions PLUMMET down the card once they lose the belt. As soon as the status quo returns, WWE almost makes a concentrated effort to destroy the former champion. Miz was handed a months long feud with Alex Riley, which got neither of them over. Swagger disappeared almost completely. Sheamus literally had zero storylines for about 6 months. Mark Henry (though, in fairness, not new) lost his monster heel credibility.

How about Punk's failed title reigns and aftermath? It wasn't until, shock of shocks, WWE booked him as the focal point of Raw that he truly moved up. Even now, I view his grasp on the main event as tenuous at best.

So, yes, I can see that 'new talent' keeps getting promoted, but it's not in any meaningful way. Building talent takes time, it requires a good foundation for audiences to get behind. More importantly, it requires them to be booked well AFTER their title reign. WWE has done none of those things.

That was a longer rant than I intended, but again... there's a reason new talent is being rejected, and it falls squarely on WWE's booking.
 
Watching Raw, I think it's awesome the crowd was actively booing (rejecting) Sheamus (the face...confirms what someone was mentioning about the booing from the live crowd at WrestleMania), actively chanting "Yes, Yes, Yes..." all night, "Si, Si, Si..." for ADR and randomly "Daniel Bryan" to voice their dislike over the 18 second match/Sheamus being the chosen one. I find entertainment in the most unlikely of places.
 
Raw had an awesome crowd last night. They really stole the show. I'm not expecting the same level of awesomeness next week.
 
I'll be shocked if Lesnar brings up the ratings because his main events were getting worse buyrates than HHH vs. whoever he wants to beat in 02/03.
 
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[quote name='KaneRobot']This is all just going to be a happy distant memory when they go to Omaha (or whatever) and people are back to cheering the Great White Celtic Warrior and lazily booing Daniel Bryan. Hope last night was a catalyst for more than a few things to change and evolve, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Tongue-tied Cole made up a new word last night that somewhat resembled a cross between "animal" and "anomaly." Memories of "Kofi Rhodes" spring to mind.

Counting the days until WWE gets some c-level band to rerecord Lesnar's song and ruin it. I'm struggling to think of a situation where WWE gets an artist to redo a Jim Johnston song and it winds up better. I'll hear an argument for Batista. Not sure if Jim was around when Demolition debuted but they would be the only other one off the top of my head, and they only had their non-Derringer theme for like a month anyway.[/QUOTE]



Benoit?
 
While I'm a bit surprised to see them jump from Rock to Lesnar for Cena, it makes sense if they're trying to paint Cena as the "company guy" who will defend the WWE at all costs. Rock left the WWE for Hollywood, Lesnar for UFC (and the NFL), and Cena can say he's always been a wrestler first. What doesn't make sense is that he lost to Rock, cheapening his claim to defend the business against the perceived "outside" threats.

I still think Lesnar's a pretty huge mainstream draw for the WWE - here's a guy that only four months ago was fighting in the UFC as a top ranked heavyweight and was UFC champion a year and a half ago. While he's had some health issues before, the WWE schedule should allow him to take it somewhat easy if he's doing the rumored two appearances per month. The crowd popped HUGE for him, so that's a pretty good indication of how over he really is.
 
[quote name='masked lemon']Benoit?[/QUOTE]

OLP's WHATEVER is awesome.

The boyhitscar Lita song and Finger Eleven's Kane one are also excellent.

Kane's non-rock song is sort of lame.
 
[quote name='Demolition Man']In other news Orton has been pulled from The Marine 3. Maybe the next thing they'll do is pull the plug on the movie itself.[/QUOTE]

Probably the worst casting idea ever to choose a guy who went AWOL multiple times ... yup.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I'm still in love with last night's crowd.[/QUOTE]

Same. I actually saved Raw on my DVR and am watching it again right now. I never, ever save it. I can't ever remember watching Raw a second time.
 
The first and only uncensored Q & A with Vince Russo will now be available on iPPV, producers Kayfabe Commentaries and Legends of the Ring have announced today. Internet pay-per-view providers World Wrestling Network Inc have secured the broadcast which will be shown live on June 1st, at 8pm EST. Viewers can order now and get locked in for the show by visiting www.WWNLive.com.

The "YouShoot LIVE" event, which takes the popular shoot-style DVD program "YouShoot" and puts it before a live audience, will take place at the Crowne Plaza in Monroe, NJ. Tickets for the live event, including VIP Packages which include a private booking seminar with Russo prior to the show, are on sale at www.youshootlive.com.
Click to expand...

Could be interesting.. $15
 
The section I was sitting at during Wrestlemania was chanting YES! all night too, myself included. I think it maybe didn't come across on TV as well because of the size difference. If 13,000 people scream YES at a stadium with 78,000 people, it won't come across as loud as if 8,000 people are screaming it in an arena with 13,000 people. I actually said I thought the crowd made the show at Mania. Also, figure a ton of people went to Mania that don't watch wrestling anymore, and just went because it's the first time Mania was in South Florida. People at Raw = current fans who know what to chant and when. Either way, the South Florida crowd really showed it's support at both shows in my opinion.
 
While that Raw last night had the feel of years past, (as much as I don't want to say this) unfortunately it won't carry forward. Most other crowds won't give two fucks and sit there like a bump on a log. Miami, Chicago and Philadelphia are likely the only crowds (that come to mind) to stand up and give a shit.

Epic RAW though. I'd have paid $65 to watch that instead of the shitty WrestleMania we were fed.
 
[quote name='HydroX']While that Raw last night had the feel of years past, (as much as I don't want to say this) unfortunately it won't carry forward. Most other crowds won't give two fucks and sit there like a bump on a log. Miami, Chicago and Philadelphia are likely the only crowds (that come to mind) to stand up and give a shit.[/QUOTE]

You and KaneRobot (and perhaps others) think that last night was a 'smart mark' effect (or, rather, that the kinds of fans who would spend money on WM and also Raw are super knowledgeable and dedicated). I can buy that, but here's the thing: last night's Raw was off the charts fun to watch as a fan.

"What?" started in one crowd after Autsin (heh) did it for awhile. Man, did that ever wear out its welcome. Because fans watched the show at home and brought that with them to the next show they saw. "Yes!" could easily become that. I had tremendous fun as a viewer - the next WWE show I go to, I'm sure people will try it, too. I would love to be in the middle of such an energetic crowd.

Same with the Quebecois, who started the who "twooooo!" thing after a near pinfall. It started in one place and got a bit bigger (it's no "what?" though).

I could see people in Peoria, IL thinking that last night's Raw looked fun, and they can't wait to go to Raw in town and do those cheers themselves.

I'm not optimistic it will happen, but I'm also not convinced it was a one time only thing. Jesus Christ (do we bleep that out here? ;)), that looked like SO MUCH FUN. How could you not want to try it?

We're 4 weeks away from YES! foam fingers, you know.
 
That wasn't a Miami crowd last night, that was all the smarks who booked a Wrestlemania getaway and decided to stay an extra day for Raw.

Edit: ninja'd.
 
The next three-hour Raw is coming up at the end of the month in Detroit and is being advertised locally as an "extreme evening", being the week before Extreme Rules.
 
[quote name='007']All told, I'm going to have to go against the majority here. I don't care that Brock Lesnar is back. To me, I just see WWE replacing a guy who hasn't been around for 8 years with another guy who hasn't been around for 8 years, but with less charisma. Lesnar is physically impressive, but he loses me as soon as he starts speaking.[/QUOTE]


Watch his postfight interviews and prefight/postfight pressers. He may not be able to ramble on and on like Punk, but he's a good speaker with personality and could hold his own against most people in today's WWE.
 
I think Bryan was booked exactly as he was because he won the belt through MITB. Punk was booked EXACTLY the same way during his first two MITB reigns. The Miz never really won clean through his MITB title reigns. Swagger, Del Rio same story.

I know a lot of you knock the WWE for thinking its audience has the memory of a goldfish, but this type of booking for the MITB winner has been going on since 2005. It's 2012 and never once has the WWE deviated from this kind of booking of MITB winners.
 
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