Finger_Shocker
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Because deadly force is always the first option, no matter what...
Only racists don't want to admit racism
Only racists don't want to admit racism
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Let's argue about Mike Brown!
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Finger_Shocker
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Funny why every time the police shoots a unarmed or even a innocent person, right leaning always known republican always defend the police.
The only time right wing republicans will show up in a mob is either to spit and throw things when they ended segregation in schools, when Obama became and during his presidency, oh and when a racist cattle herder get booted of FEDERAL land.
Don't worry right wingers will never admit they are racists, the don't even acknowledge that word. They just prefer to call it " their personal dislike of another"
Its sad the even when a unarmed white individual is shot or abused by police, they are indifferent to such matter.
The only time right wing republicans will show up in a mob is either to spit and throw things when they ended segregation in schools, when Obama became and during his presidency, oh and when a racist cattle herder get booted of FEDERAL land.
Don't worry right wingers will never admit they are racists, the don't even acknowledge that word. They just prefer to call it " their personal dislike of another"
Its sad the even when a unarmed white individual is shot or abused by police, they are indifferent to such matter.
So, let me get this straight again . . .
Multiple eyewitnesses mention a struggle in the vehicle. Forensics evidence shows 1) Injuries to Officer Wilson 2) A close range gunshot wound to the hand on Brown 3) Brown's blood in the vehicle.
Then there is the entire part where there's *NO* reason for Officer Wilson to "pull Brown into the car" (despite what the main eyewitness against Officer Wilson states happened). Because, as has been stated earlier, that would have no tactical advantage (and in fact would put him in a disadvantage tactically) and would endanger him.
Then we have this part: Gunshot wounds that are consistent with someone being shot while charging and NOT having their hands in the air.
Hey, Finger_Shocker, where did you get your expert credentials again? Where's your logic train other than "Oh no, unarmed black male shot!" and "
the police, they're just corrupt racists!"?
Here's a real shocker for you, Finger_Shocker: The use of force continuum does not mean that an officer has to go through steps 1, 2, and 3 before going to 4 on a use of force scale. The *ONLY* thing that needs to be shown for lethal force to be appropriate: a suspect poses a serious threat to the officer or another individual.
So, considering these things: 1) Michael Brown most likely attacked the Officer in his vehicle (as it's HIGHLY unlikely that Officer Wilson pulled him in the car, for reasons stated above).
2) Brown went for his gun (as is reasonable considering the statements made by the Officer, along with the close contact gunshot wound to the hand and blood in the car).
3) Brown *continued* to go after the Officer (per forensics evidence that corroborates a charging individual with no signs of his hands being up. In addition, to eyewitness testimony caught on video saying that he retreated and then charged again.).
But hey, let's crucify the Officer instead. Let's claim he's a racist without having *ANY* facts to back it. And then, let's demonize anyone that questions that narrative.
Because that all makes sense. Checkmate.
(Citation for eyewitness and Officer Wilson's accounts of the events across the board: http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/08/us/ferguson-brown-timeline/ )
Multiple eyewitnesses mention a struggle in the vehicle. Forensics evidence shows 1) Injuries to Officer Wilson 2) A close range gunshot wound to the hand on Brown 3) Brown's blood in the vehicle.
Then there is the entire part where there's *NO* reason for Officer Wilson to "pull Brown into the car" (despite what the main eyewitness against Officer Wilson states happened). Because, as has been stated earlier, that would have no tactical advantage (and in fact would put him in a disadvantage tactically) and would endanger him.
Then we have this part: Gunshot wounds that are consistent with someone being shot while charging and NOT having their hands in the air.
Hey, Finger_Shocker, where did you get your expert credentials again? Where's your logic train other than "Oh no, unarmed black male shot!" and "
the police, they're just corrupt racists!"?Here's a real shocker for you, Finger_Shocker: The use of force continuum does not mean that an officer has to go through steps 1, 2, and 3 before going to 4 on a use of force scale. The *ONLY* thing that needs to be shown for lethal force to be appropriate: a suspect poses a serious threat to the officer or another individual.
So, considering these things: 1) Michael Brown most likely attacked the Officer in his vehicle (as it's HIGHLY unlikely that Officer Wilson pulled him in the car, for reasons stated above).
2) Brown went for his gun (as is reasonable considering the statements made by the Officer, along with the close contact gunshot wound to the hand and blood in the car).
3) Brown *continued* to go after the Officer (per forensics evidence that corroborates a charging individual with no signs of his hands being up. In addition, to eyewitness testimony caught on video saying that he retreated and then charged again.).
But hey, let's crucify the Officer instead. Let's claim he's a racist without having *ANY* facts to back it. And then, let's demonize anyone that questions that narrative.
Because that all makes sense. Checkmate.
(Citation for eyewitness and Officer Wilson's accounts of the events across the board: http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/08/us/ferguson-brown-timeline/ )
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Dude, arguing with facts and logic against these guys who throw the racist accusation all the time is like arguing against ignorant birthers who still claim Obama is from Kenya.....No amount of evidence will change what they "know" is true in their heart of hearts. Fun for a while, but in the end depressing to know how deluded some people truly are.
This is the only unbiased statement in your entire post.
Cops LOVE to get their perp and not let them get away. It's not that crazy an assumption to think that the cop grabbed Brown. To say that it's more likely that Brown punched the cop and tried to kill himself a pig is an even bigger leap of faith.
Ha? Eyewitness accounts state that Brown also had his hands up as well as some of those independent investigators stating that they were misquoted. It's one possibility out of many.
The Ferguson Police Department has a long history disproportionately targeting black folks for crimes with questionable results. This goes deeper than this particular usage of continuum of force. Good to know that you're more than comfortable dumping your mag on someone though.Hey, Finger_Shocker, where did you get your expert credentials again? Where's your logic train other than "Oh no, unarmed black male shot!" and "
Here's a real shocker for you, Finger_Shocker: The use of force continuum does not mean that an officer has to go through steps 1, 2, and 3 before going to 4 on a use of force scale. The *ONLY* thing that needs to be shown for lethal force to be appropriate: a suspect poses a serious threat to the officer or another individual.
Yeah, Wilson never ever gave false statements to make himself look like the cool cucumber...
http://www.politicususa.com/2014/11/17/darren-wilson-threatened-arrested-ferguson-man-recording-video.html
WHOOPS!
Btw, your CNN link is borked.
Finger_Shocker
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I'm pretty sure there is a very distinct line between self-defense to manslaughter to murder.Hey, Finger_Shocker, where did you get your expert credentials again? Where's your logic train other than "Oh no, unarmed black male shot!" and "
Here's a real shocker for you, Finger_Shocker: The use of force continuum does not mean that an officer has to go through steps 1, 2, and 3 before going to 4 on a use of force scale. The *ONLY* thing that needs to be shown for lethal force to be appropriate: a suspect poses a serious threat to the officer or another individual.
So, considering these things: 1) Michael Brown most likely attacked the Officer in his vehicle (as it's HIGHLY unlikely that Officer Wilson pulled him in the car, for reasons stated above).
2) Brown went for his gun (as is reasonable considering the statements made by the Officer, along with the close contact gunshot wound to the hand and blood in the car).
3) Brown *continued* to go after the Officer (per forensics evidence that corroborates a charging individual with no signs of his hands being up. In addition, to eyewitness testimony caught on video saying that he retreated and then charged again.).
Someone attacks you, you luckily grab a baseball bat and knocked him out : self-defense
Guy is knocked out, you go over and bash his head in and continue bashing till his skull breaks and he's dead: NOT self-defense - thats murder
So big kid attacks Wilson, Wilson shoots kid, then continue to fire a couple more till he's dead.... Yup that sure sounds like self-defense.
Lets say he was attacking with fists, one shot would of been enough to stop the assault. Fark even Zimmerman had more
ing constraint .. So tell me that Wilson didn't cross the line btw defending himself to committing a crimeYes, cops do love catching a bad guy. Except for when it can and very well will get them killed. You obviously have a great deal of training under your belt, but how about we play a game, Mr. Keyboard Warrior? It'll be easy . . . well, for anyone that has a friend that is willing to help. You don't even have to get up!
Now, don't get up. While staying in a static position, punch your friend as hard as you can. If you feel like being lazy, lay down on the floor and do it. Now, with your friend standing up, have him / her / it do the same to you. When you wake up, you'll notice there's a bit difference in force. You know why? Things like punching gain momentum from your body. When seated or laying down, you have very little force to your punches. Any Officer who has done the job knows that. Any MMA fighter knows that. But all you keyboard warriors don't.
But hey, let's forget other key aspects of that: All of the tools LEOs wear are on their belt. When seated in a car, it's very difficult to access these tools. Things like a gun, baton, pepper spray, taser, radio, 2 pairs of handcuffs, spare magazines, etc. Who in the world would pull someone into a car, in a defensive position (because no offense can be mounted while seated, minus submission, which isn't trained), without access to their tools?
So, again, reason dictates that this didn't happen as the witness portrays. It goes against *ALL* training. It goes against *ALL* self-preservation instinct for someone who's done combatives. And I don't
ing buy it. But it's a great story for a witness to come up with on the spot, especially witnesses that are prejudiced against the police. Perception is everything.Wait a second, there's an issue with the numbers? But, that couldn't have anything to do with other factors . . . but I guess it's best to assume the cops are just racist. But hey, if poverty doesn't cause crime, how about education levels? Ever stop to think about causation, and then throw out actual ideas other than LE is racist? Or is that just how you come to your conclusions?
Actually, he filed that in his report. 18 seconds of video is a bit short for someone to prove a point. The "victim" was disruptive and trying to control the complaint. If someone continually said "I'm going to video tape you, no, I'm going to video tape you," instead of following a lawful command ("Hey, your vehicle is in the street and can't be there, move it.") . . . well, yeah. But hey, way to assume the Officer is bad without actually knowing the full situation.
Fixed.
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Once again, you don't understand how lethal force works. I guess your police training from Facebook / behind the keyboard / Cop Block hasn't lived up to it's credentials, eh?I'm pretty sure there is a very distinct line between self-defense to manslaughter to murder.
Someone attacks you, you luckily grab a baseball bat and knocked him out : self-defense
Guy is knocked out, you go over and bash his head in and continue bashing till his skull breaks and he's dead: NOT self-defense - thats murder
So big kid attacks Wilson, Wilson shoots kid, then continue to fire a couple more till he's dead.... Yup that sure sounds like self-defense.
Lets say he was attacking with fists, one shot would of been enough to stop the assault. Fark even Zimmerman had more
So, let's go over when lethal force is justifiable again, and how it plays out:
Lethal force is justifiable when great bodily harm or death is imminent.
This is usually highlighted by a few key factors: A weapon being involved, differences in size, differences in size, and differences in skill. But those key factors also don't override if someone just gets plain lucky and starts winning the fight to the point of great bodily harm or death being imminent.
So, as has been talked about endlessly already, if the situation played out as described, lethal force would be justifiable. Why? Because 1) A weapon was in play (the Officer's, which was just fought over) 2) The size difference 3) "Getting lucky" by injuring the Officer due to his disadvatangeous positioning.
"But, he could've tased him!". Here's the catch, Mr. Cop Block: In a split second, transitioning from one use of force tool to another takes time. Time that is available when someone is charging you. If he wasn't charged, transitioning would be possible and expected. But based off forensics, eyewitness testimony, and the Officer's perception (while injured), that didn't happen. And so no transition was necessary.
To spell it out: Take your Cop Block stances and actually attend an academy. Maybe go do some actual training. And learn about what the
you preach. Because you know shit on the subject.
Finger_Shocker
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LOL!!! so you are saying Wilson did not get enough training that why he couldn't show restraint...Once again, you don't understand how lethal force works. I guess your police training from Facebook / behind the keyboard / Cop Block hasn't lived up to it's credentials, eh?
So, let's go over when lethal force is justifiable again, and how it plays out:
Lethal force is justifiable when great bodily harm or death is imminent.
This is usually highlighted by a few key factors: A weapon being involved, differences in size, differences in size, and differences in skill. But those key factors also don't override if someone just gets plain lucky and starts winning the fight to the point of great bodily harm or death being imminent.
So, as has been talked about endlessly already, if the situation played out as described, lethal force would be justifiable. Why? Because 1) A weapon was in play (the Officer's, which was just fought over) 2) The size difference 3) "Getting lucky" by injuring the Officer due to his disadvatangeous positioning.
"But, he could've tased him!". Here's the catch, Mr. Cop Block: In a split second, transitioning from one use of force tool to another takes time. Time that is available when someone is charging you. If he wasn't charged, transitioning would be possible and expected. But based off forensics, eyewitness testimony, and the Officer's perception (while injured), that didn't happen. And so no transition was necessary.
To spell it out: Take your Cop Block stances and actually attend an academy. Maybe go do some actual training. And learn about what the
Glad to know that the police out there receive INSUFFICIENT training on the PROPER use of force
Wilson make Zimmerman look like a saint. And Zimmerman was an WANNABEE cop who at least knew what justifiable amount of shots is necessary to take down someone larger and them him and also his accusation of trying to reach for his gun...
If you think after backing off and being shot from a distance is still self-defense, you are a IDIOT!!!
No, actually, *YOU* say that by making assumptions. And LE receives countless hours on training. Where's your certifications again? What academy did you go through, Keyboard Warrior Cop Blocker? Oh, that's right . . . you don't know shit on the subject other than what you spout based off opinion. Way to understand what you're talking about! Next up, Finger_Shocker's take on how to do nuclear fission!
Witnesses state Wilson pursued him, and Brown turned on him and then charged. It's recorded.
And once again, charging someone, even from a distance, is lethal force justifiable based off the facts stated above. 35 feet will get you killed in a second. Transitioning within 35 feet is impossible. Try it, and I can guarantee you that by the time you get your gun away and your hands on a second tool, you'd be unconscious from a sucker punch.
But way to make baseless accusations based off the eyewitness testimony of someone who has changed their story multiple times, has a record (and a warrant out of their arrest at the time!), and has only things to gain by the story getting out.
Nope, definitely not a Cop Blocker.
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Purple Flames
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Not to derail the conversation at hand, but is anyone gonna touch on the whole "several members of the St. Lous police force were exposed as Klansmen" thing? I thought that was a pretty big deal.
[quote name="Purple Flames" post="12251266" timestamp="1416368437"]Not to derail the conversation at hand, but is anyone gonna touch on the whole "several members of the St. Lous police force were exposed as Klansmen" thing? I thought that was a pretty big deal.[/quote]
I'd be surprised if it's true. I'd like to see the evidence. Even if true, I'd guess the amount is minimal compared to the total amount of officers and that they won't have a job for long.
I'd be surprised if it's true. I'd like to see the evidence. Even if true, I'd guess the amount is minimal compared to the total amount of officers and that they won't have a job for long.
According to fear, their training over comes that. No exceptions.
n8rockerasu
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Well, assuming Darren Wilson isn't revealed to be one of them, it really should have little bearing here. Are we pursuing charges against Officer Wilson or the entire St. Louis area police department? My neighbor is a thief. That doesn't mean I'm a thief. Isn't that line of thinking the exact argument that racist assholes are condemned for?
ie. Some policemen are in the KKK, so Darren Wilson must be too = Some black people are criminals, so Michael Brown must be too...no?
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What does my ability to fight have to do with whether or not this pig could've possibly forgot his "training" for a moment and grabbed the kid that was passing by his window? How is that soooo unreasonable compared to the kid committing robbery and then climbing the criminal ladder to attempted murder? That's a mighty big leap of logic your taking there when you've repeatedly said that training doesn't count for shit when it hits the fan sometimes.
Hell, the only training this particular breed of swine probably does is seeing how many donuts he can shove down his gullet.
"Perception is everything," huh? "Reason dictates?" Weren't you theSo, again, reason dictates that this didn't happen as the witness portrays. It goes against *ALL* training. It goes against *ALL* self-preservation instinct for someone who's done combatives. And I don't
ing idiot that tried to explain why an unarmed individual is actually NOT unarmed solely because of his size?Causation??? LOLZ
I'd LOVE to hear about what you think are the causes. It's not like there are countless studies about how black males consistently get the short end of the stick in the criminal justice system when it comes to sentencing or enjoy increased enjoyment of police scrutiny when accounting for socio-economic status or other things that are the results of direct actions by law enforcement. It's not like Redlining still happens nor are they targeted and victims of predatory financial practices. Policy may be written to be colorblind, but that doesn't mean they're enforced that way whether it's purposefully because of race, unintentionally, or subconsciously. All three have the same result and I'm more than comfortable with calling that racism.
Actually, posting that link was a bit of a test to see how well you do at disseminating sources and...you know...actually doing some research with easy-to-follow links, which I was honestly hoping that you would pass and view the incident without the lens as a Cop Gobbler since Wilson's account of his actions is less than consistent with the video. Even in the light of video evidence of Wilson actually LYING on his OFFICIAL report, you're STILL going to try and bullshit me by saying that he was 100% accurate and honest in his report? Yeah, you're an absolute paragon of objectivity.
Yeah, having KKK members in a police department that primarily deals with black folks is a good idea.
Again, this has been a long term problem with this police department. The killing of an UNARMED big kid just caused the pot to boil over. It's not rocket science...really it isn't.
It is a question of the culture of that police department, that coupled with the fact there are what 3 warrants per capita issued in Ferguson?
Finger_Shocker
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If you are hanging with your neighbor on a constant basis, it may paint a very bad picture on your own moral standing.
However you forgot to mention the POLICE dept is a organization, a group who is organized and work together on a constant basis with a "code" btw " brothers. The police is no different then gangs or the mob, they are all organizations made up of individuals who must protect and defend their organization from internal and external conflicts.
Unless Brown was part of a gang your argument is pretty b.s, because Brown can only be held liable to himself. If you organization is made up of crooks and criminals and you turn a blind eye, you are as much a part of the problem. So Wilson might as well be part of the KKK without being a part of it.
Even with proof of KKK ties some of the people here continue to defend Wilson and the Ferguson P.D... and they wonder why they are seen as racists. Same people who hate Obama, are know righties, republicans, also happen to defend a P.D that is infiltrated by KKK members... Color me shock as to why it is a basic assumption and fact that if you are right wing and republican you are a definite bon fide racist as well
You really don't understand things very well, do you? Let me spell things out clearly for you again:
Sometimes, under times of extreme stress (see: your life is on the line), the body doesn't act as you expect it to. Notice some key words there? "Under times of extreme stress"? Something I've said many times before, that you can't seem to comprehend? Read that phrase again.
Do you think "extreme stress" is attempting to talk to some jaywalkers in the street? If so, I guess that makes sense. You're a keyboard warrior. You probably don't have friends and just argue here. Social interactions are hard, I know. But for most people, and any officer who has been on the force for more than say, a year, that's one of the most non-stressful things in the world.
So, once again, why would he forget his training (and the entire "self-preservation" thought process) by putting himself into a purely defensive situation? He wouldn't. No one with a lick of sense would.
But hey, way to understand the situation. Why don't you eat some doughnuts yourself, and keep keyboard warrioring away?
Yup, and I stand by it. You do realize that there are many times an Officer has died by his own service weapon because it was taken by a larger opponent, right? Perception is everything. Which is why you're an idiot right now about this. You perceive all cops to be bad, all black men to be unfairly treated, and eat up what the media has been spouting without questioning it. But hey, that's what happens when the media would rather fan a fire with wild speculation instead of actually finding facts out."Perception is everything," huh? "Reason dictates?" Weren't you the
His video evidence that is 15 seconds long, in what is most definitely a lengthy encounter? How about you learn to disseminate evidence and, you know, actually do some research? It's not like that video could've been cut down to paint the officer badly. But hey, what do I know . . . it's not like that's happened countless times in the past!
But hey, keep it up. Don't address the evidence. Instead, scream racism repeatedly. It'll work on those too stupid to actually think about the situation and listen to reason. Al, is that you?
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Finger_Shocker
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Are you for real... where are you pulling your bulls*it nonsense from.
How many case have there been where a cop's gun was taken from him/her and used on them? I can bet you, you have a far greater chance at winning the lottery then having a acceptable amount of cases to validate that beyond nonsense defense.
Most cops die by accident then by actions of a criminal, and to top that off in the USA 1 to 2 people die a day at the hands of LEO across the USA.
Your argument is baseless and nonsense at best.
How many case have there been where a cop's gun was taken from him/her and used on them? I can bet you, you have a far greater chance at winning the lottery then having a acceptable amount of cases to validate that beyond nonsense defense.
Most cops die by accident then by actions of a criminal, and to top that off in the USA 1 to 2 people die a day at the hands of LEO across the USA.
Your argument is baseless and nonsense at best.
n8rockerasu
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I never said it was. But it's not fair to lump Wilson in with that group if there's no evidence to show that he had any association with that group or even with those officers. Regardless of how corrupt or dirty the St. Louis PD may be, that STILL has no bearing on the interaction between these two men and what actually transpired that day.
Show me a legitimate link between Wilson and the Klan (other than just that someone who has the same job...who he may not even know...is in it) and then you have an argument. Until then, it's just mud slinging.
I really would love to get a straight answer without all the pretense and bullshit from the people who honestly believe Wilson used excessive force. Just follow me for one second and answer this question...if you were an officer sitting in your car, and a much larger person approached you, aggressively reached into your car, punched you, and reached for your weapon, what would you do?
I don't want to argue about whether anybody believes that's what happened in this case. At this point, everyone is reasonably entrenched in what they believe happened. I don't want to argue about it. I just want to know how you think that specific situation should be handled. In that scenario, what is the appropriate response from a law enforcement officer?
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I'm going to be blunt with you. You're a
ing idiot.Citation: http://www.policeone.com/close-quarters-combat/articles/100228-Cases-of-Officers-Killed-by-Their-Own-Guns-Likely-Will-Not-Change-R-I-Policies/
So, once again, you're a
ing idiot who knows jack shit on the subject.Do me a favor and shut the
up. Seriously. You don't know jack shit on the subject of LE matters. You especially don't know anything about police officers being killed. Maybe that's because you'd rather rejoice in their deaths instead though.Let's play a game! Which one of these dick weasels are you?
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[quote name="n8rockerasu" post="12254340" timestamp="1416469374"]
I never said it was. But it's not fair to lump Wilson in with that group if there's no evidence to show that he had any association with that group or even with those officers. Regardless of how corrupt or dirty the St. Louis PD may be, that STILL has no bearing on the interaction between these two men and what actually transpired that day.
Show me a legitimate link between Wilson and the Klan (other than just that someone who has the same job...who he may not even know...is in it) and then you have an argument. Until then, it's just mud slinging.
I really would love to get a straight answer without all the pretense and bullshit from the people who honestly believe Wilson used excessive force. Just follow me for one second and answer this question...if you were an officer sitting in your car, and a much larger person approached you, aggressively reached into your car, punched you, and reached for your weapon, what would you do?
I don't want to argue about whether anybody believes that's what happened in this case. At this point, everyone is reasonably entrenched in what they believe happened. I don't want to argue about it. I just want to know how you think that specific situation should be handled. In that scenario, what is the appropriate response from a law enforcement officer?[/quote]
What I think would be awesome is if one of these guys actually tried to be the Officer in this situation. Act it out with someone who actually is serious. See how far they get, even with the knowledge of knowing what's going to happen before it happens.
Keyboard warriors don't get this. They think life is like the video games or movies. Everyone dies by one shot (unless you're the "good guy"), and things always work out cleanly and perfectly.
I never said it was. But it's not fair to lump Wilson in with that group if there's no evidence to show that he had any association with that group or even with those officers. Regardless of how corrupt or dirty the St. Louis PD may be, that STILL has no bearing on the interaction between these two men and what actually transpired that day.
Show me a legitimate link between Wilson and the Klan (other than just that someone who has the same job...who he may not even know...is in it) and then you have an argument. Until then, it's just mud slinging.
I really would love to get a straight answer without all the pretense and bullshit from the people who honestly believe Wilson used excessive force. Just follow me for one second and answer this question...if you were an officer sitting in your car, and a much larger person approached you, aggressively reached into your car, punched you, and reached for your weapon, what would you do?
I don't want to argue about whether anybody believes that's what happened in this case. At this point, everyone is reasonably entrenched in what they believe happened. I don't want to argue about it. I just want to know how you think that specific situation should be handled. In that scenario, what is the appropriate response from a law enforcement officer?[/quote]
What I think would be awesome is if one of these guys actually tried to be the Officer in this situation. Act it out with someone who actually is serious. See how far they get, even with the knowledge of knowing what's going to happen before it happens.
Keyboard warriors don't get this. They think life is like the video games or movies. Everyone dies by one shot (unless you're the "good guy"), and things always work out cleanly and perfectly.
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Hmmm...if only we had definitive proof, like video and audio that encounter...
Oh we don't? Well let's just take the cop's word for it because he'd never color his version of the events because his training would kick in and never
up because of that training.You can call me any name in the book, but that doesn't change the fact that the only reason why you don't see any fault on ANY issues brought up about Wilson is because you either are or want to be part of The Brotherhood(tm).
If a large teen that isn't trained in any type of physical combat and doesn't possess any weapons is considered armed to you because they're "big," I'm not the crazy one here and any 3rd rate lawyer would tear you up on the stand. Hell, you might as well consider a dwarf armed because they could kill you with their bare hands. Small people tend to be pretty slippery amirite! Given the right circumstances, I could possibly kill you with a sneeze! I hope your training doesn't kick in and make you gun down the next person you see that pulls a pack of travel tissues from their back pocket while jaywalking! Don't forget to put that person in the isocubes for a few years either cause jaywalking is a crime.
And LOLZ@"The Media" reference. Yeah, it's the media that that shoots unarmed black kids and not the cops.
Lemme guess...you didn't read the report to compare it to the video. Ask me how I know.
What evidence? You obviously didn't read the report, you're obviously ignoring why I'm calling out racism, accuse me of hating all cops, and you persist in using in-group lingo as insults that mean absolutely nothing to me. The only impression you're giving is that the only reason why you want to be in LE is to bust some heads and let the courts sort them out. You don't make the laws, you just gotta enforce them right? Anyone that has anything to say to the contrary is a Cop Blocker.
The funny thing is, if someone were to bring up actions of Mike Brown's family members, they'd be slammed for trying to discredit Mike Brown with frivolous information.
But bringing up other members of the Saint Louis police force (not even the Ferguson PD), well, that's okay, because they're "family"...
But bringing up other members of the Saint Louis police force (not even the Ferguson PD), well, that's okay, because they're "family"...
What does any of this have to do with my point about having
ing KKK members in the department and how this is one event on top of a clear history of racial bias against black folks when it comes to law enforcement?If you don't want to hear it from me, maybe you'll listen to Jon Stewart:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_98ojjIZDI
The funny thing is, if someone were to bring up actions of Mike Brown's family members, they'd be slammed for trying to discredit Mike Brown with frivolous information.
But bringing up other members of the Saint Louis police force (not even the Ferguson PD), well, that's okay, because they're "family"...
But bringing up other members of the Saint Louis police force (not even the Ferguson PD), well, that's okay, because they're "family"...
That, or, you know, I actually expect *evidence* to show that wrongdoing has taken place. Because it beats just screaming "RACIST!" repeatedly. But hey, keep digging. 15 seconds of video isn't going to change anyone's mind because, get this, it doesn't show the full interaction.
I guess you missed this earlier: "But the FBI says that of the 616 law enforcement officers killed on duty by criminals from 1994 through 2003, 52 were killed with their own weapon, amounting to 8 percent."
But hey, let's talk more about something you don't understand:
Size matters. Why is it that you think any combat sport is broken down into weight divisions? Any 4th rate lawyer could argue a size differential being a factor. Which is why it's listed as part of the Totality of Circumstances in a typical Use of Force policy! See those italics? Those are keywords for you to do research on your own!
God, you're a
ing idiot with your strawman arguments that have no factual basis to them.Actually, I did read the report and watched the video. I didn't skim it either. Did you read it? I don't think you did. It's pretty lengthy, and covers a lot more than what 15 seconds of video footage shows. I actually read it from multiple sources, including yours.
Isn't that an interesting tidbit from the report? Wow, could a guy willing to fake a seizure, paralysis, breathing issues, and refusing to sign a simple summons possibly be trying to hide things? I mean, it's not like it's been done before. I guess that key phrasing from earlier doesn't matter though. You know, Totality of Circumstances. They're totally there in that 15 second video, and it's not just showing 15 seconds of the encounter. It's showing the whole thing!
But hey, ignore the facts again. Ignore precedence set by past court cases and self-defense laws. Ignore the Totality of Circumstances. Ignore logic. It's easy to do as long as you just keep screaming "RACISM!".
the police.
n8rockerasu
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Why are conflicting witness reports from people who may have a negative bias against law enforcement considered "definitive proof" but autopsy findings...conducted three times by three separate organizations (one of whom was specifically requested by the family) are not?
As for your latter comment, I explicitly answered your question about the KKK members and then moved on to a new topic. You didn't see that?
And I usually love John Stewart and how he calls out the GOP on their bullshit. But he didn't have all the facts when he made this rant. And he may be letting his political bias cloud his judgment here. [SIZE=14.3999996185303px]Not to mention the damage to Officer Wilson's face and the autopsy report had not been revealed yet when this aired.[/SIZE]
And to be honest, lately, his jokes have gotten a little petty (ie. making fun of riot gear that was worn while people were, well...rioting). I would rather him just make solid points (as he often does) than be the guy who makes fun of a spelling error to try to invalidate someone's argument.
But hey...
I'm also laughing my ass off at the fact that none of you will answer the question of what the appropriate response would be from law enforcement. It's not lost on me why nobody will answer that. :lol:
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Even that 15 seconds isn't consistent with the description of that time frame in the report. This wasn't some long protracted incident.
GARBAGE COLLECTORS have higher job-related fatality rates than cop. Sorry, but the mere possibility of getting killed on the job doesn't mean that it's likely to happen. You're more likely to have a bruised ego than a bruised face when encountering a perp.
LOLZ...yeah, I bet Manny Pacquiao would get demolished by any untrained 200lb asshole looking to prove a point!But hey, let's talk more about something you don't understand:
Size matters. Why is it that you think any combat sport is broken down into weight divisions? Any 4th rate lawyer could argue a size differential being a factor. Which is why it's listed as part of the Totality of Circumstances in a typical Use of Force policy! See those italics? Those are keywords for you to do research on your own!
God, you're a
Hell, I probably didn't even add a qualifier about training or lack thereof! Oh right, I did! Easier to accuse me of strawmen than actually read the words on the screen and crying wolf about racism.
Arman's offense is irrelevant when the issue revolves around the accuracy of Wilson's account. Wilson wrote AT LENGTH about those 15 seconds and was fairly specific about the exchange in that time frame. It simply didn't happen the way he said it did. What led up to it and how it ended is irrelevant when the report literally doesn't match what's in the video. If you're going to hang your hat on the accuracy of Wilson's statements, you'd best be sure that he didn't do anything inpungable. Too bad we have video evidence that prove otherwise. Did Arman write Wilson's report?
I could think of a few other things you could pull out of your ass, but if you prefer it to be a cop, I'm not gonna judge and applaud your openness about it.
When did I say that eyewitness accounts were definitive proof? The only definitive proof of anything is that there was a struggle in the car and the cop killed an unarmed teen.
You gave an answer, but it had absolutely nothing to do with my point.
I don't really watch TDS anymore, but you just can't handwave the actions of the police during the protests. Not every protester was rioting and a whole lot of people arrested weren't charged with such.And I usually love John Stewart and how he calls out the GOP on their bullshit. But he didn't have all the facts when he made this rant. And he may be letting his political bias cloud his judgment here. Not to mention the damage to Officer Wilson's face and the autopsy report had not been revealed yet when this aired.
And to be honest, lately, his jokes have gotten a little petty (ie. making fun of riot gear that was worn while people were, well...rioting). I would rather him just make solid points (as he often does) than be the guy who makes fun of a spelling error to try to invalidate someone's argument.
But hey...
Yeah, reframing the argument to only focus on this one incident as if it's an outlier isn't some rhetorical trick to take focus away from the larger issues at hand.
Hm. Did DD just admit that his (and everone else's) claims of racism are unfounded and that Wilson should not be charged, since there is no definitive proof that Wilson did anything wrong?
Finger_Shocker
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You got to be the dumbest person with a lack of comprehension on the face of the earth.I'm going to be blunt with you. You're a
Citation: http://www.policeone.com/close-quarters-combat/articles/100228-Cases-of-Officers-Killed-by-Their-Own-Guns-Likely-Will-Not-Change-R-I-Policies/
So, once again, you're a
Do me a favor and shut the
Let's play a game! Which one of these dick weasels are you?
You throw up a link that is a spread over a NINE year span as evidence, when LEO kills 1 to 2 people in the USA per day
Are you f'in joking, the FBI don't even keep records of all the unjustified or justified police shooting across the USA but yet they don't have a problem recording LEO's being shot. We all know there is a war byw the gov't and its own people, that is a known fact.
Sorry I don't read cop-block, yet it seem you get all your biased info from specific LEO websites, Oh no bias there, cops certainly won't write articles in favor of themselves...
By the way how many innocent people have been shot or killed by police .... Google is your friend
How many innocent animals have been killed by police who raided the WRONG house.... Goolgle is even a better friend
You sir, are the dumbest uninformed ass kisser there ever is.
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Finger_Shocker
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Its seem the only time the cop's training actually kicks in is when they kill a innocent person and need to come up with the perfect cover story.
And there is perfect proof why many of the people who continue to support these type of policing are racists. The same tactics being used are no different then back in the 50' 60's during the civil rights protest. Many whites rejoiced at watching the police beat innocent protestors regardless, because those protestors were against their status quo.
The same whites here that are ok with police injustice against certain groups are descendents of that mindset.
Racism is still alive and well, because once a racist admits that he/she is a racist their arugement fails. By not admitting they are racist they can still promote racist attitudes through subtle contexts
And there is perfect proof why many of the people who continue to support these type of policing are racists. The same tactics being used are no different then back in the 50' 60's during the civil rights protest. Many whites rejoiced at watching the police beat innocent protestors regardless, because those protestors were against their status quo.
The same whites here that are ok with police injustice against certain groups are descendents of that mindset.
Racism is still alive and well, because once a racist admits that he/she is a racist their arugement fails. By not admitting they are racist they can still promote racist attitudes through subtle contexts
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So, let me get this straight . . . 8% of officers feloniously killed on the job is a statistical non-significant? Wow, you are spouting pure genius! Kanye West, is that you?
Perfectly innocent? Let's ignore the fact that he just physically assaulted a store clerk and stole a box of Swisher Sweets. Let's also ignore the injuries sustain by Officer Wilson, forensic evidence, and eyewitness testimony. Nope, none of that matters.
And of course, when you ask about LEOs killed in the line of duty, I'm going to cite a website that actually covers line of duty deaths. And has all the stats on one page. Would you like more? How about you actually look it up yourself? They're all there on the FBI page, as you so keenly observed.
Yup, Finger_Shocker . . . once again, spouting non-sense with bad grammar and spelling. Keep it up, you're making this argument easy.
Perfectly innocent? Let's ignore the fact that he just physically assaulted a store clerk and stole a box of Swisher Sweets. Let's also ignore the injuries sustain by Officer Wilson, forensic evidence, and eyewitness testimony. Nope, none of that matters.
And of course, when you ask about LEOs killed in the line of duty, I'm going to cite a website that actually covers line of duty deaths. And has all the stats on one page. Would you like more? How about you actually look it up yourself? They're all there on the FBI page, as you so keenly observed.
Yup, Finger_Shocker . . . once again, spouting non-sense with bad grammar and spelling. Keep it up, you're making this argument easy.
Finger_Shocker
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So being apart of the KKK should not affect you joining a group with access to weapons ....LOL
So does that mean people with criminal history can apply and join the police force as well..
Its funny how the media can find out that some police are members of the KKK, but the police force and its members are oblivious that some of their fellow officers are KKK member.... Is that your argument, that Wilson wouldn't know if his fellow officers are part of a terrorist organization ....LOL
Wow those background checks and federal checks before getting a position in LEO sure are lenient and not through
Finger_Shocker
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Funny you have no problem with all the innocent people being killed, maimed or injured due to police misconduct?So, let me get this straight . . . 8% of officers feloniously killed on the job is a statistical non-significant? Wow, you are spouting pure genius! Kanye West, is that you?
Perfectly innocent? Let's ignore the fact that he just physically assaulted a store clerk and stole a box of Swisher Sweets. Let's also ignore the injuries sustain by Officer Wilson, forensic evidence, and eyewitness testimony. Nope, none of that matters.
And of course, when you ask about LEOs killed in the line of duty, I'm going to cite a website that actually covers line of duty deaths. And has all the stats on one page. Would you like more? How about you actually look it up yourself? They're all there on the FBI page, as you so keenly observed.
Yup, Finger_Shocker . . . once again, spouting non-sense with bad grammar and spelling. Keep it up, you're making this argument easy.
How many people are subjected to wrongful prosecution based solely on LEO misconduct and abuses.
How many people was imprisoned, because LEO forensic labs fudged and lied on forensic reports
How many people have their property seized because they were a minority driving through the wrong part of the states.
You are a farking idiot that continue harping your pro-police stance, hey asswipe how about defending those people who are actually INNOCENT for a change.
Until then your numbers don't pale in comparison to how many ACTUAL INNOCENT people had their lives destroyed due to LEO misconduct
Wow you really are a dipshit racist, why bring a "black" rapper into the arguement, its like you have some beef with black culture
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God, you're dumb.
First, you're assuming what anonymous put out is accurate. I've yet to see proof of actual Officers being in the KKK. Assuming proof is found, the Officers should be dismissed. Hate groups / criminal organizations aren't welcome.
But hey, "the media" found that information out? Oh wait, anonymous did. It's not like they've gotten things wrong in the past.
Secondly, background checks are much more thorough than you're throwing out there. Mine was 105 pages. 3 polygraphs (to ensure deception wasn't being performed). Multiple meetings with investigators. Board interviews. And that's just the background aspect.
I guess what's not very thorough is your fact checking though. But hey, Finger_Shocker does it again!
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Finger_Shocker
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god.... you must be the dumbest most uniformed idiot on the face of the earth.
Let me ask, do you wait in the police stalls every day , waiting for a cop to take a shit so you can gobble it up right after, you you love to smear yourself in their feces and play in their poop? Do you worship the smell of it and even frame some for your daily viewing
Cause buddy you are that stupid and that gullible.
Again to you the media, witnesses, non-Leo are all liars and their facts are bullshit, only the word of LEO matters to you..
Hey asswipe, you know all those innocent people that been framed and imprisoned due to police misconduct, guess who FREED them: THE MEDIA
Did LEO purposely freed innocent people they put away ... NO
Who exposed police misconduct and abuse? THE MEDIA
Its funny that the one group who has helped freed some people who were imprisoned for decades were NON-LEO
You sir takes the cake for being a racist dipshit
n8rockerasu
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On top of that, he's also assuming that these people were in the KKK BEFORE they became police officers. If they were already cops when they joined, that could have easily been hidden. Not all Klan members make their identity widely known. For the love of Christ, nobody is saying members of the KKK should be police officers.
But if you can't see multiple avenues here where others could be unaware of it or how it could have absolutely nothing to do with Darren Wilson, you're little more than a troll. Get some damn learning and critical thinking abilities and then rejoin the discussion.
How in the holy
do you make the jump from "Some members of the St. Louis area police department were discovered to be members of the KKK" (assuming that's even true) to "St. Louis area police departments knowingly hired members of the KKK and Darren Wilson knowingly fraternized with them and might even be a member himself." Somebody connect those dots for me.
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Finger_Shocker
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Yup and police never post on racist websites or post racist messages
http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20140929/news/140928179/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/19/robert-copeland-resigns_n_5352723.html
Even white officers hate their black fellow officers in blue too
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/17/police.racism.lawsuit/
Yep racism is so dead these days
http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20140929/news/140928179/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/19/robert-copeland-resigns_n_5352723.html
Even white officers hate their black fellow officers in blue too
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/17/police.racism.lawsuit/
Yep racism is so dead these days
Way to go little buddy!
Here, let me explain it for you sport. See, there's certain facts/circumstances which are undisputed in a case, and then there's facts that either side will try to establish. Just because certain facts are stipulated to by both sides doesn't mean that discloses the possibility of additional facts which change the overall standing of whether a crime occurred.
When Dohdough says the only undisputed facts are that "there was a struggle in the car and the cop killed an unarmed teen" he's saying those're the facts that neither side disputes. That doesn't mean that there weren't additional facts, before or after that would have turned the incident into a crime. For instance, if Mike Brown had started an incident but then stopped resisting and was shot after he stopped resisting submitting to the arrest, the cop murdered him. It's all a question of context that the undisputed facts fall under.
Let me put it to you another way champ. Let's say someone walked into your Walmart and demanded that they receive the sale price of pampers which were on sale last week. It's not a disputed fact that the pampers were on sale last week but that doesn't mean pampers are on sale this week. That's because an intervening incident (i.e. the end of the week signaling the end of the sale) has changed the context of the previous facts.
You got it now, big guy?
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No one is claiming racism is dead. Or that all officers are perfect. What is being said is that racism has nothing to do with the shooting aspect of this case.
Finger_Shocker
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You are missing the point .......... and that makes you a idiot too before calling someone else outOn top of that, he's also assuming that these people were in the KKK BEFORE they became police officers. If they were already cops when they joined, that could have easily been hidden. Not all Klan members make their identity widely known. For the love of Christ, nobody is saying members of the KKK should be police officers.
But if you can't see multiple avenues here where others could be unaware of it or how it could have absolutely nothing to do with Darren Wilson, you're little more than a troll. Get some damn learning and critical thinking abilities and then rejoin the discussion.
How in the holy
Apparently NO one is policing the police ... does that paint a better picture for you.
I don't give a damn about what links Wilson had with other officers, this proves that there is no one policing the police itself.
Who's arresting or firing the police for crimes or known terrorist affiliations... lol no one
So . . . you're saying those links that you just posted involving officers being fired for misconduct (racism) / resigning before being fired didn't happen then? And that you're talking about something NOT covered by the original post (See: Off-topic completely)?
Man, I guess the Department of Justice and FBI should just call it a day on the Ferguson case then, huh? It's not like they're investigating there. Also, the Grand Jury going on . . . yup, that has nothing to do with investigating the police.
But hey, again, let's ignore all of these things. Things are exactly as you painted them.
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So, in 2 consecutive posts you disclaim any possibility that racism had any part of this shooting but then you chastise someone else because they're not taking into account that the investigation is ongoing? You see why these 2 standpoints might be conflicting, right?
See, I'm not ready to say racism had anything to do with this case because there just hasn't been enough information yet. The grand jury could, and probably does, have access to information that hasn't been made public yet. I'm also not ready to say racism doesn't have anything to do with this incident at all as many people are screaming at the top of their lungs trying to proclaim. To foreclose the possibility that there wasn't a racial motivation in this case is just silly but that doesn't necessarily mean that race was the motivating factor in this case.
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n8rockerasu
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Wait...are we changing the argument then? If you're trying to make a case for the "big picture" and saying we need better checks and regulations for the "people in charge", yeah...I'm all for that. As Fearia pointed out, a lot of that already happens (doesn't mean we can't do better though).
But I don't have a problem with more in depth background checks and evaluations. I felt this same way with gun ownership. Hell, it's not even a terrible idea for issuing driver's licenses. Mental stability is pretty important if you want to participate in an activity that could endanger others.
But again, this is a "big picture" argument and has no direct relationship to whether Officer Wilson's actions were just or not. If you're alleging that maybe Officer Wilson acted justly, but with the surrounding events and revelations since then, we should still strive to do a better job regulating and looking into the "people in charge", I can get on board with that. At the end of the day, people with nothing to hide have nothing to worry about.
And here I thought you were just arguing that Darren Wilson was a racist pig. Glad that's cleared up. I feel better now. Should we hug?
But I don't have a problem with more in depth background checks and evaluations. I felt this same way with gun ownership. Hell, it's not even a terrible idea for issuing driver's licenses. Mental stability is pretty important if you want to participate in an activity that could endanger others.
But again, this is a "big picture" argument and has no direct relationship to whether Officer Wilson's actions were just or not. If you're alleging that maybe Officer Wilson acted justly, but with the surrounding events and revelations since then, we should still strive to do a better job regulating and looking into the "people in charge", I can get on board with that. At the end of the day, people with nothing to hide have nothing to worry about.
And here I thought you were just arguing that Darren Wilson was a racist pig. Glad that's cleared up. I feel better now. Should we hug?
bread's done