- LOCK - Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - LOCK -

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On the topic of the 'two format gen', I have to wonder how many studios will stay exclusive if the two gens were to surpass DVD and still both survive. Any studio releasing exclusively on one format will just be eliminating roughly half the fanbase, so, if we had a two format gen, chances are, we will have a BD version and a HD version (something we are already seeing). Add that to the fact that all these movies will probably be double dipped sometime down the line. I can only imagine the confusion on the faces of the masses if this were to happen.

But, assuming that is correct, I could technically stick to BD, and not have to invest in another player as most HD releases would be going to BD (and visa versa).
 
[quote name='dpatel']Any studio releasing exclusively on one format will just be eliminating roughly half the fanbase[/QUOTE]

Not at all. Considering the very low install base of players for either format, if (hypothetically) the HD era takes off as a consequence of dual-format players, when a studio releases Big Movie Part 3 for HD video, there's little incentive to put out both a BR and an HD version of the movie - putting out just one version will satisfy the majority of consumers (since they have dual-format players, HD vs. BR won't matter to them). They can only put out BR, or only put out HD, and still reach the majority of users. Doing both will only cover the ground occupied by those who only own BR or HD players, so it's pretty silly, really.

Of course, I dread a dual-format continuation over a number of years, personally (for that reason). I'd like to see BR win, of course, but for the moment having two formats is pushing down the price of players mega quick. If only it did the same for movies. :lol:

Once that has hit its apex, and the players are mass-market priced ($99-150), then there is no longer a need for two formats.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Not at all. Considering the very low install base of players for either format, if (hypothetically) the HD era takes off as a consequence of dual-format players, when a studio releases Big Movie Part 3 for HD video, there's little incentive to put out both a BR and an HD version of the movie - putting out just one version will satisfy the majority of consumers (since they have dual-format players, HD vs. BR won't matter to them). They can only put out BR, or only put out HD, and still reach the majority of users. Doing both will only cover the ground occupied by those who only own BR or HD players, so it's pretty silly, really.[/QUOTE]

Actually, yea, you're right. Don't know why I thought otherwise. The only people they will eliminate are the people who were early adopters of one format, and don't adopt the combo or other format's players.

[quote name='mykevermin']Of course, I dread a dual-format continuation over a number of years, personally (for that reason). I'd like to see BR win, of course, but for the moment having two formats is pushing down the price of players mega quick. If only it did the same for movies. :lol:

Once that has hit its apex, and the players are mass-market priced ($99-150), then there is no longer a need for two formats.[/QUOTE]

I agree the two formats going at it are great for prices. It's insane at how fast these things are dropping in price, but, like you, I don't want this to be long term.
 
a BR player that can play DVDs can be easily adapted to play HD DVD too; and after the HD DVD diodes get down in price the cost of producing a BR player that can play DVDs vs making one that can play DVDs & HD DVDs too will be incredibly small to the point where the only reason they wouldnt be dual format is because the BDA wants more licencing fees. not because it confuses customers or makes the players more expensive.

and dual formats will continue to drive down the price of movies too imo, because the licencers will continue to have incentive to compete on price. this could also drive down the price of PC media.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Yes, thats the deadline. The code was not finished when Blu-Ray launched last year so they have an entire year to 'work it out'. In the mean time, all the other standalone players may make nice door stoppers. Who knows if they will be able to handle the update, if any is issued to them. Stick with a PS3, its safe.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the info!!

I think I'll wait then. The only movies I really want now are Pirates 1+2
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']I say nice things about Blu-Rays all the title. I own 25 or so titles and about 50 HD DVD. I support both formats and bitched when we did not get any new HD DVD titles for 3 damn months. The PS3, while a nice Blu-Ray player, is still a crappy gaming machine IMO. I have no interest in year old ports of 360 games or a re-release of an Xbox game from 3 years ago. As a Blu-Ray player its great, as a gaming console it sucks. The only time I have ever touched the controller is to play the Ninja Gaiden demo and to do the firmware updates. I fully plan on selling my PS3 when a BD-J compatible Blu-Ray/HD DVD combo player arrives. Take whatever you want out of context from the above, but those are my opinions, much like the opinions of other people that feel HD DVD is crap, Universal should release on Blu-Ray, Blu-Ray is superior etc. etc. etc.[/quote]


Totally off topic but you say in your sig they all suck of PS3. First off why is that necessary and secondly your currently playing Bullet Witch for 360!?! Yet everything on PS3 sucks? I would have to question your IQ friend...than again I never was a fan of you.

I am a huge fan of my PS3 right now as a gaming machine and I am having alot of fun with it. I just picked one up and got a good deal on the system and I have to say that it has definately suprised me so far. The bluray player is excellent and has great picture quality. The select few games, motorstorm, resistance, MLB 07, Warhawk Beta, Ninja Gaiden demo, are all very solid. I seem to remember when the 360 came out it was a god damn ghost town for months after the release and really hasn't picked up steam till this past year. Sony has some good titles in the mix and has some sleepers coming IMO. Lets face it though the PS3 will not fall on it's face and I dont think Bluray is going to either. It has a good saturation in the Japanese market and for some reason Europe is in love with the system. 360 is a westerner and PS3 is global. I love my 360 though also, with all that has been previously said.

In rebuttle, I have been staying away from this thread mostly because I think your a fucking tool bag who has about 6 IQ points shy of a fucking Corky retard. SO in rebuttle, there can and WILL be firmware updates to support the BluRay J and that's coming straight from a Pioneer rep, Sharp rep (yeah dont get that), and a Samsung Rep. They all know about the feature and already have worked out firmware updates for their respectful machines. That being said in the past few months I have been buying up some pricey home theater equipment and picked up the LG combo HD/Bluray player for $500 bones and I will say that HD DVD is not NEARLY as shitty as I had thought. U control is lame though, lets just pull that cat out of the bag. In terms of quality I dont really see the difference. Some HD DVD's look a TAD better than bluray and vice versa. What really needs to be said about this format war is that it is time for both of them to throw in the fucking towel and join up. Toshiba needs to stop being whiny assholes about the fucking name of HD DVD (which is one of there hold ups for that merger) Sony needs to stop whining about having control over everything.

What I dont understand is why people sit here and argue who's going to win. Nothing you type or say will influence shit and right now your all having a my cock is longer fight. If anything we should create a HD DVD and Bluray thread rating the titles and telling people what to buy and what not to buy. This thread and about 20 pages too long with whining and arguing. We all know that GizmoGC loves having Toshiba's Penis in his throat. We all know that Dpatel is a HUGE bluray backer. Point taken, just give up guys.

these are just my opinions :)
/endthread
 
You know, the more I think about it, the more I wish I never bought both the PS3, and the 360 add-on along with movies on both formats. The tech hasn't come along far enough quite yet, and I paid top dollar for both. I just watched Casino Royale, and The Mummy on good old DVD today with my girlfriend, and the whole time I was thinking how good it looked for a regular DVD(playing in an upscaling player). Obviously the Blu-Ray, and HD DVD versions look better, but man, it wasn't as big of a difference that I had convinced myself it was earlier.

There's just so many negative factors about jumping into these formats. One might die off anytime, early adopters always get screwed with eventual price drops and better hardware, I can't watch a Blu-ray or HD DVD in my car or in my portable DVD player on trips or in most of my game consoles.

Ehh, but that's my own damn fault for being impatient. I'm starting to hope one format dies so this "war" is over and a format becomes standard so I can feel more confident about buying a movie. My advice to anyoen that's thinking of taking the high-def plunge.... Wait. At least until the holiday season.
 
I hope dvd wins....

Hehe just kidding. I don't really mind which one wins, as long as someone wins soon. So I can go out and buy the winning format.

[quote name='Chris in Cali']You know, the more I think about it, the more I wish I never bought both the PS3, and the 360 add-on along with movies on both formats. The tech hasn't come along far enough quite yet, and I paid top dollar for both. I just watched Casino Royale, and The Mummy on good old DVD today with my girlfriend, and the whole time I was thinking how good it looked for a regular DVD(playing in an upscaling player). Obviously the Blu-Ray, and HD DVD versions look better, but man, it wasn't as big of a difference that I had convinced myself it was earlier.

There's just so many negative factors about jumping into these formats. One might die off anytime, early adopters always get screwed with eventual price drops and better hardware, I can't watch a Blu-ray or HD DVD in my car or in my portable DVD player on trips or in most of my game consoles.

Ehh, but that's my own damn fault for being impatient. I'm starting to hope one format dies so this "war" is over and a format becomes standard so I can feel more confident about buying a movie. My advice to anyoen that's thinking of taking the high-def plunge.... Wait. At least until the holiday season.[/quote]
http://www.i4u.com/article9168.html I don't think you can really see the details on a 7inch monitor though lol.
 
[quote name='dmes65']Any word on who's getting Star Wars yet? Hd or Blu ray?[/quote] well officially its BR IF fox is distributing it again like dvd.

but lucas has say over when it gets released and hes been historicaly wary of new formats. so it will still be quite a while before it shows up, and when it does; where it shows up depends on where whatever studio publishes it distributes in. could be BR could be dual format. lucas might even wait an extended period just to spite fox who he had a major falling out w/ after SW and why he moved to paramount for indy & following movies.

u can see here
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2942055&highlight=%22star+wars%22#post2942055
that theyre in no rush
 
[quote name='Maynard']The select few games, motorstorm, resistance, MLB 07, Warhawk Beta, Ninja Gaiden demo, are all very solid. I seem to remember when the 360 came out it was a god damn ghost town for months after the release and really hasn't picked up steam till this past year.[/quote]
i know your post was in response to some1 else's. but i just thought i'd point out that its wrong. :hot:

the PS3 has been out coming on 8 months.

in the first 7 months of the 360 there were many good games. (rated 8 or above at IGN)
e.g.
CoD 2, DoA 4, GRAW, Oblivion, Prey, Madden 06, kameo, PGR3, tony hawk AW, Need for Speed MW, condemned, quake 4, king kong, perfect dark zero, fight night round 3, burnout revenge, Moto GP 2k6, Ridge Racer 6, Full Auto, MLB 2k6, far cry instincits predator, tomb raider legend, 2006 FIFA world cup, AstroPop, Hitman Blood Money

for PS3 there have been the ones you mentioned (+ oblivion, VF5, NHL 2k7, NBA 2k7, NBA Street Homecourt, College hoops 2k7, madden 07, tiger woods 07, F.E.A.R {which is absolutely horrible on the PS3 imo, everything is noticeably worse than the 360; which was already bad compared to the PC})

25 released well rated 360 games (8+ by IGN)
8-12 (depending on if you consider dl games a release) rated 8+ for the PS3. of which 4 are exclusive.

the PS3s good release numbers aren't as equivocal you're trying to make it out.

anyway, im going to leave it at that; since i really don't want this thread to turn into some sort of console argument.

i wouldn't have said anything, but patronizing denial of what can be quantified so easily is one of my pet peeves.
 
[quote name='Maynard']That being said in the past few months I have been buying up some pricey home theater equipment and picked up the LG combo HD/Bluray player for $500 bones and I will say that HD DVD is not NEARLY as shitty as I had thought. U control is lame though, lets just pull that cat out of the bag. In terms of quality I dont really see the difference. Some HD DVD's look a TAD better than bluray and vice versa. What really needs to be said about this format war is that it is time for both of them to throw in the fucking towel and join up. Toshiba needs to stop being whiny assholes about the fucking name of HD DVD (which is one of there hold ups for that merger) Sony needs to stop whining about having control over everything.

What I dont understand is why people sit here and argue who's going to win. Nothing you type or say will influence shit and right now your all having a my cock is longer fight. If anything we should create a HD DVD and Bluray thread rating the titles and telling people what to buy and what not to buy. This thread and about 20 pages too long with whining and arguing. We all know that GizmoGC loves having Toshiba's Penis in his throat. We all know that Dpatel is a HUGE bluray backer. Point taken, just give up guys.

these are just my opinions :)
/endthread[/quote] good deal on the LG, it retails $1,200. its also not a good player for HD DVDs since it's not HDi compatible. maybe thats why you dont seem to like U Control, 'cause its not working. every1 else seems to http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/shanebuettner/42007ucontrol/ ;)
shoulda waited for the samsung :cold:

also, a lot of what goes on here is news regarding this "war". people talk about it because its interesting to them. they know it doesnt directly ifluence large scale events. they also dont care.
 
As a casual observor, apart from sites like this and other techy/nredy places I visit, does it seem like the push of advertising / talk about these HD formats is dwindling. It felt like before and after Christmas and even into spring a bit I was hearing something about Blu-Ray or HD-DVD (mostly Blu-Ray) on TV every day, and going into a sotre there seeemed to be a huge push for it. Now most of that seems to have fallen by the wayside.

Anyone else notice that?
 
[quote name='daroga']

Anyone else notice that?[/QUOTE]

I haven't. It seems to me that HD DVD is increasing their advertising slightly, but they dont have that many new releasing come out lately and mainly just catalog titles and those don't get any airtime. As I read your posts I just saw a commercial for Primevil or whatever coming out on DVD/Blu-ray tuesday.
 
[quote name='Maynard']Totally off topic but you say in your sig they all suck of PS3. First off why is that necessary and secondly your currently playing Bullet Witch for 360!?! Yet everything on PS3 sucks? I would have to question your IQ friend...than again I never was a fan of you.

I am a huge fan of my PS3 right now as a gaming machine and I am having alot of fun with it. I just picked one up and got a good deal on the system and I have to say that it has definately suprised me so far. The bluray player is excellent and has great picture quality. The select few games, motorstorm, resistance, MLB 07, Warhawk Beta, Ninja Gaiden demo, are all very solid. I seem to remember when the 360 came out it was a god damn ghost town for months after the release and really hasn't picked up steam till this past year. Sony has some good titles in the mix and has some sleepers coming IMO. Lets face it though the PS3 will not fall on it's face and I dont think Bluray is going to either. It has a good saturation in the Japanese market and for some reason Europe is in love with the system. 360 is a westerner and PS3 is global. I love my 360 though also, with all that has been previously said.

In rebuttle, I have been staying away from this thread mostly because I think your a fucking tool bag who has about 6 IQ points shy of a fucking Corky retard. SO in rebuttle, there can and WILL be firmware updates to support the BluRay J and that's coming straight from a Pioneer rep, Sharp rep (yeah dont get that), and a Samsung Rep. They all know about the feature and already have worked out firmware updates for their respectful machines. That being said in the past few months I have been buying up some pricey home theater equipment and picked up the LG combo HD/Bluray player for $500 bones and I will say that HD DVD is not NEARLY as shitty as I had thought. U control is lame though, lets just pull that cat out of the bag. In terms of quality I dont really see the difference. Some HD DVD's look a TAD better than bluray and vice versa. What really needs to be said about this format war is that it is time for both of them to throw in the fucking towel and join up. Toshiba needs to stop being whiny assholes about the fucking name of HD DVD (which is one of there hold ups for that merger) Sony needs to stop whining about having control over everything.

What I dont understand is why people sit here and argue who's going to win. Nothing you type or say will influence shit and right now your all having a my cock is longer fight. If anything we should create a HD DVD and Bluray thread rating the titles and telling people what to buy and what not to buy. This thread and about 20 pages too long with whining and arguing. We all know that GizmoGC loves having Toshiba's Penis in his throat. We all know that Dpatel is a HUGE bluray backer. Point taken, just give up guys.

these are just my opinions :)
/endthread[/QUOTE]

Way to many great opinions there fanboy.

So where did you get these 'magical' updates that no one on AVS knows of that all these G1 players will be able to handle BD-J? You know what, nevermind. There is no sense in actually replying to you. If you don't want to read my opinions, block me. If you don't want to read Dpatels, block him. You know what, just stay the fuck out of this thread. I won't result to name calling or putting penis' in your mouth.
 
[quote name='dmes65']Any word on who's getting Star Wars yet? Hd or Blu ray?[/QUOTE]

DVD just got Star Wars less then 3 years ago. Don't expect Star Wars for at least another 5-7. I think we will have a better chance of see the Star Wars Holiday Special before 2010.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Way to many great opinions there fanboy.

So where did you get these 'magical' updates that no one on AVS knows of that all these G1 players will be able to handle BD-J? You know what, nevermind. There is no sense in actually replying to you. If you don't want to read my opinions, block me. If you don't want to read Dpatels, block him. You know what, just stay the fuck out of this thread. I won't result to name calling or putting penis' in your mouth.[/QUOTE]

This may be the only time I'll agree with you 100%
 
[quote name='nonggame']HD-DVD will die!!!!

Here is the news
http://www.vgoa.com/index.php?page=newsProfile&platform=PS3&newsID=271

Universal might back-out of HD-DVD ^__^[/QUOTE]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Aside from the fact that this is from a no-name website, and not even Sony, Fox, LionsGate etc. have announced any titles for 2008, or that even admitting this would mean that no one would buy their current HD DVD titles...I call bogus. :lol:

For fun

LOS ANGELES, June 11 /PRNewswire/ -- Three weeks into its aggressive
spring retail and marketing campaigns, the North American HD DVD
Promotional Group today announced HD DVD is significantly ahead in the
dedicated consumer electronics player market with 60% of all high
definition set-top players sold. At the same time, high definition movie
sales for HD DVD reached an all time high for the month of May, exceeding
75,000 movies the last week of May alone.
Overall high definition sales hit a record last week as well, hitting
$5.2 million in actual consumer spending, which was 31% higher than the
previous record for the two formats. This highlights the growing consumer
appetite for HD content across the board.
Sales of dedicated consumer electronics players are a critical
indicator in the adoption of the high definition formats, given the high
attach rates to these players. With the successive price drops by Toshiba,
weekly player sales doubled in April when the price dropped from $499 to
$399, doubled again during the first week of the latest promotion in late
May, and increased again last week.
"Toshiba's latest promotional efforts are clearly resonating with
consumers and showing that price is king when it comes to hardware," said
Craig Kornblau, chairman of the North American HD DVD Promotional Group.
"Behind the increase in sales for hardware and movies, you're seeing
fundamentally lower manufacturing costs and ease of authoring for HD DVD.
That's the type of model that can scale."
Consumers have purchased 150,000 dedicated HD DVD consumer electronics
players which are holding a 4 to 1 movie attach rate over competing
formats. The Toshiba HD-A2 model has also reached the top-seller mark among
all DVD players on Amazon.com, and is officially the best-selling next-gen
DVD player model to date.
About HD DVD
HD DVD is the next generation, post-DVD standard for high capacity,
high definition optical discs, approved by the DVD Forum, which develops
and defines DVD formats. Its more than 220 strong membership brings
together leaders in movies and entertainment, computing, consumer
electronics and software. HD DVD is fast becoming the primary visual medium
for the age of high-definition TV. The North American HD DVD Promotional
Group, Inc. is an organization established to promote the HD DVD format and
educate consumers in North America. For more information and a complete
listing of HD DVD launch titles please visit
http://www.TheLookAndSoundOfPerfect.com.
Click to expand...

Yeah, makes sense that Universal would throw in the towel now.
 
[quote name='dpatel']engadget is a no-name site?[/QUOTE]

He linked to vgao.com or something, not engadget.

Engadget is the same one, who TODAY, posted the article above.

Of course the vgao article means nothing as they don't show any proof its happening, just that there is nothing on slate for 2008. Not shocked, as neither does any of the other studios. :roll:

I find the article above about the players intersting.

More HD DVD player sales = Increase in HD DVD software. Meaning that ratio per player will continue to grow and grow. While the PS3 continues to lag in sales, reaching a nice low in April. Maybe the new $500/$600 standalone systems will help sales, but they are still twice the price, again, of the cheapest HD Player. As soon as the A2 (or Chinese player) hits $199, it will get REALLY interesting.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']I find the article above about the players intersting.[/QUOTE]

It is interesting, but it is also from the HD-DVD group, and I'll just take it with a grain of salt

[quote name='GizmoGC']More HD DVD player sales = Increase in HD DVD software. Meaning that ratio per player will continue to grow and grow.[/QUOTE]

If you are talking about the attach ratio, that is not necessarily true.

[quote name='GizmoGC']While the PS3 continues to lag in sales, reaching a nice low in April. Maybe the new $500/$600 standalone systems will help sales, but they are still twice the price, again, of the cheapest HD Player. As soon as the A2 (or Chinese player) hits $199, it will get REALLY interesting.[/QUOTE]

PS3 is lagging in the console war, but it is still beating any hi-def player out there. You are confusing the two markets.
 
[quote name='Jedi1979']am i wrong or is the article date from engadget from Janurary...[/QUOTE]

:lol: :applause:

You ARE right. I was wondering why I didn't see it on Engadget yesterday.
 
Picking apart that press release:

HD DVD is significantly ahead in the dedicated consumer electronics player market with 60% of all high definition set-top players sold.
Click to expand...

IOW, if we don't count the millions of PS3s sold out there, then 6 out of every 10 set-top boxes is an HD DVD player. 6 out of 10 for a dramatically cheaper player is not very impressive.

HD DVD reached an all time high for the month of May, exceeding 75,000 movies the last week of May alone.
Click to expand...

Single week sales? Hot damn! Moreover, please don't pay attention to the fact that we're suddenly not talking about market share relative to the competition; that's not very good news.

Overall high definition sales hit a record last week as well, hitting $5.2 million in actual consumer spending, which was 31% higher than the previous record for the two formats
Click to expand...

Anybody riding these coattails here? Mind if we do?

What the hell as "high definition sales"? If they meant "HD DVD sales," they'd say that - does this include TVs, or just movies? One thing sure is clear: they are NOT talking strictly in terms of HD DVD movies in this bit of data. The obscuring is crystal clear.

Consumers have purchased 150,000 dedicated HD DVD consumer electronics players which are holding a 4 to 1 movie attach rate over competing formats.
Click to expand...

We have to bring up attach rate because the sales numbers, both of our players relative to theirs, and our movies relative to theirs, just ain't pretty.

The Toshiba HD-A2 model has also reached the top-seller mark among all DVD players on Amazon.com, and is officially the best-selling next-gen DVD player model to date.
Click to expand...

...again, if you fail to consider the PS3. Which only a fool would do.
 
[quote name='dpatel']It is interesting, but it is also from the HD-DVD group, and I'll just take it with a grain of salt.[/QUOTE]

http://amazon.com/b/ref=amb_link_18...pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=283908001&pf_rd_i=1065836
#1 Selling item is...oh, the A2
#9 Selling item is...oh, the XA2
#11 Selling item is...oh, the A20
#29 Selling item is...oh, finally, a Blu-Ray Player! (and the best standalone to buy right now)


PS3 is lagging in the console war, but it is still beating any hi-def player out there. You are confusing the two markets.
Click to expand...

Last I heard, the PS3 is a video game machine. Oh yeah, it also plays Blu-Ray. How do we know that every PS3 sold is being used a BR player? Oh yeah, we don't. But hey, lets take a look at that attach rate!
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Last I heard, the PS3 is a video game machine. Oh yeah, it also plays Blu-Ray. How do we know that every PS3 sold is being used a BR player? Oh yeah, we don't. [/QUOTE]

We don't know. But, the PS3 lagging in the console race is completely irrelevant right now. Just because it plays games, you can't really say it is 'lagging' when we are talking about BD vs HD. It has little relevance. Either we include the PS3 in both hardware and attach rate, or we don't. Don't be inconsistent and do half and half.

[quote name='GizmoGC']But hey, lets take a look at that attach rate![/QUOTE]

I think you should tell the majority of studios (who are backing BD). They seem to be oblivious to the fact that they are supporting a format with a dismal attach rate. Or, maybe they do know this, and, like I have been saying all along, the attach rate really isn't as important as you make it out to be.

And, if we are going to include the PS3 for attach rates, we should at least be consistent and include them in the overall hardware sales. I realize this inconsistency from the HD-DVD camp puts their format in a better light, but I would expect better from you.
 
[quote name='nonggame']HD-DVD will die!!!!

Here is the news
http://www.vgoa.com/index.php?page=newsProfile&platform=PS3&newsID=271

Universal might back-out of HD-DVD ^__^[/quote] "might" "no new" as in additional to the already announced

they've already stated they're releasing over 100 this year. i'd hardly call that a "back-out". especially since that article is from Jan 10 and they've already expanded their line up just 2 weeks later.
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s..._Titles_in_2007,_Still_Says_No_to_Blu-ray/449
 
More HD DVD player sales = Increase in HD DVD software. Meaning that ratio per player will continue to grow and grow.
Click to expand...

please explain how you figure this will happen? At the current attach rate, each new HD-DVD adopter would need to buy 5-6 movies just to keep the attach rate the same. To make it 'grow and grow', they would need to purchase more than 5-6 movies. It's possible this will happen, but the relationship you stated above makes no sense.
 
[quote name='dpatel']please explain how you figure this will happen? At the current attach rate, each new HD-DVD adopter would need to buy 5-6 movies just to keep the attach rate the same. To make it 'grow and grow', they would need to purchase more than 5-6 movies. It's possible this will happen, but the relationship you stated above makes no sense.[/QUOTE]

While most are getting 5 free by mail (not counted) I couldn't imagine that someone buying an A2 for $300 (instead of a $600 player) wouldn't pick up a few movies to watch right then and there. And with 46 exclusive titles coming out in the next 3 months and another 20 or so format neutral titles, that would mean 1 out of every 10 movies released that a new owner would purchasewould keep the current attach rate.

As for the studios not carrying about attach rates...I would say the non-existent/canceled/delayed titles by Fox, MGM, Disney, and Sony say something. They are either prepping up for a Holiday battle, or having second thoughts.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Picking apart that press release:



IOW, if we don't count the millions of PS3s sold out there, then 6 out of every 10 set-top boxes is an HD DVD player. 6 out of 10 for a dramatically cheaper player is not very impressive.



Single week sales? Hot damn! Moreover, please don't pay attention to the fact that we're suddenly not talking about market share relative to the competition; that's not very good news.



Anybody riding these coattails here? Mind if we do?

What the hell as "high definition sales"? If they meant "HD DVD sales," they'd say that - does this include TVs, or just movies? One thing sure is clear: they are NOT talking strictly in terms of HD DVD movies in this bit of data. The obscuring is crystal clear.



We have to bring up attach rate because the sales numbers, both of our players relative to theirs, and our movies relative to theirs, just ain't pretty.



...again, if you fail to consider the PS3. Which only a fool would do.[/quote]


fucker biggest wrestling news of the year and your tearing apart and old article....
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Picking apart that press release:



IOW, if we don't count the millions of PS3s sold out there, then 6 out of every 10 set-top boxes is an HD DVD player. 6 out of 10 for a dramatically cheaper player is not very impressive.



Single week sales? Hot damn! Moreover, please don't pay attention to the fact that we're suddenly not talking about market share relative to the competition; that's not very good news.



Anybody riding these coattails here? Mind if we do?

What the hell as "high definition sales"? If they meant "HD DVD sales," they'd say that - does this include TVs, or just movies? One thing sure is clear: they are NOT talking strictly in terms of HD DVD movies in this bit of data. The obscuring is crystal clear.



We have to bring up attach rate because the sales numbers, both of our players relative to theirs, and our movies relative to theirs, just ain't pretty.



...again, if you fail to consider the PS3. Which only a fool would do.[/quote]
as pessimistic as you'd like to see it; they could have easily gone w/ "Total Stand alone HD DVD players sold jump by 50% in 2 months"

if you think about it like that, it is quite a feat. they were only announcing 100,000 stand alone players sold not 2 months ago. why? because they've steadily been approaching that magic $200 mark.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']While most are getting 5 free by mail (not counted) I couldn't imagine that someone buying an A2 for $300 wouldn't pick up a few movies to watch right then and there. And with 46 exclusive titles coming out in the next 3 months and another 20 or so format neutral titles, that would mean 1 out of every 10 movies released purchased would keep the current attach rate.[/QUOTE]

So, it's not a definite, just speculation on your part.

[quote name='GizmoGC']As for the studios not carrying about attach rates...I would say the non-existent/canceled/delayed titles by Fox, MGM, Disney, and Sony say something. They are either prepping up for a Holiday battle, or having second thoughts.[/QUOTE]

...or, like you said, they are waiting the release of BD-J.

We don't know the reason for this, but I am almost certain it can't be the attach rate. What good is a significantly higher attach rate, when your overall sales are lower (or even.. not sure).
 
[quote name='propeller_head']if you think about it like that, it is quite a feat. they were only announcing 100,000 stand alone players sold not 2 months ago. when BR stand alone players were around 90k. so if you think about it stand alone HD DVD players have been selling at a 500% faster rate than BR players the last 2 months. why? because they've steadily been approaching that magic $200 mark.[/QUOTE]

That price point is definitely appealing, but the PS3, a major factor, is not being included (well, it is when talking about attach rates). To me, at this point it time, it makes little sense to invest in a standalone blu-ray player, and I imagine I'm not alone in this view.
 
[quote name='dpatel']That price point is definitely appealing, but the PS3, a major factor, is not being included (well, it is when talking about attach rates). To me, at this point it time, it makes little sense to invest in a standalone blu-ray player, and I imagine I'm not alone in this view.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't touch a standalone player unless it was under $200 at this point. I'll wait till the Samsung Dual Player arrives. That will be my next player and I will sell my PS3.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']While most are getting 5 free by mail (not counted) I couldn't imagine that someone buying an A2 for $300 (instead of a $600 player) wouldn't pick up a few movies to watch right then and there.[/QUOTE]

That would only be true if we assume that consumers of both players have the same amount of income, and are allocating that same percentage of income towards movies. Just because they are saving $300 on a player, doesn't necessarily mean that extra money will go towards movies.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']I wouldn't touch a standalone player unless it was under $200 at this point. I'll wait till the Samsung Dual Player arrives. That will be my next player and I will sell my PS3.[/QUOTE]

Point proven.
 
[quote name='dpatel']

And, if we are going to include the PS3 for attach rates, we should at least be consistent and include them in the overall hardware sales. I realize this inconsistency from the HD-DVD camp puts their format in a better light, but I would expect better from you.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. They only count the PS3 as a blu-ray player when its convenient for their numbers. If you do not count the PS3 as a blu-ray player (as most people are saying), then the blu-ray attach rate would destroy HD DVDs.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']Exactly. They only count the PS3 as a blu-ray player when its convenient for their numbers. If you do not count the PS3 as a blu-ray player (as most people are saying), then the blu-ray attach rate would destroy HD DVDs.[/QUOTE]

Yea. Count the PS3, or don't count it. Doesn't matter to me, it just doesn't make sense to inconsistent with it. But, like I said, its from the HD-DVD camp..
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']Exactly. They only count the PS3 as a blu-ray player when its convenient for their numbers. If you do not count the PS3 as a blu-ray player (as most people are saying), then the blu-ray attach rate would destroy HD DVDs.[/QUOTE]

Correct. However, again, there is NO way to determine how many people who own a PS3 buy Blu-Rays. So either way to spin it, one group will be pissed.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']While most are getting 5 free by mail (not counted)[/QUOTE]

not counted in the attach rate? My ass.

[quote name='guyver2077']fucker biggest wrestling news of the year and your tearing apart and old article....[/QUOTE]

Of course. I was ff'ing through Raw, having just beat Resident Evil 2. I'm playing a decade-old game of "catch up." :lol:

[quote name='propeller_head']as pessimistic as you'd like to see it; they could have easily gone w/ "Total Stand alone HD DVD players sold jump by 50% in 2 months"

if you think about it like that, it is quite a feat. they were only announcing 100,000 stand alone players sold not 2 months ago. why? because they've steadily been approaching that magic $200 mark.[/QUOTE]

I have no problem with that. It's not as if I expect every press release to be forthright - I don't expect Toshiba to put out a statement saying "boy, we're trying hard and doing well, but not as well as the competition." I'm not thick. But press releases, while they are supposed to spin to make one look phenomenal, should not be so easily critiqued, questioned, and debunked. They should be proud of the HD A2, as it's doing incredibly well. I just think it's very foolish to make it so very clear when the PS3 is being omitted from calculations. That's just incorrectly deceptive, from a marketing standpoint, IMO. I'd rather read about their attach rate (which *is* important, even if they're going to fluff it up with their free movie giveaway - after all, the bare minimum attach rate for early PS3s was 1:1, since a movie came in the fucking box. :lol:).

[quote name='GizmoGC']Correct. However, again, there is NO way to determine how many people who own a PS3 buy Blu-Rays. So either way to spin it, one group will be pissed.[/QUOTE]

Please. You've already shown elsewhere tonight that you regard research and data as some sort of shark-infested waters you'd rather stay out of, but to say there's NO way? That's absurd. It can easily be done with some survey research of PS3 owners - get a reliable, random sample, ask them about their TV setup, ask them about their BR ownership currently and plans for the future.

Would that be quick or inexpensive? Probably not. But impossible? P'shaw.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Correct. However, again, there is NO way to determine how many people who own a PS3 buy Blu-Rays. So either way to spin it, one group will be pissed.[/QUOTE]

Not really. Either count it in both categories, or don't count it in either. Don't say "The PS3 isn't a blu-ray player", but then include it in BLU-RAY attach rates.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']not counted in the attach rate? My ass.[/QUOTE]

Well, hope your ass smells as they are not 'sold' and not rung through any register. Therefore they are not counted. Much like King Kong inside the 360 add-on, or Black Hawk Down/Fifth Element inside the Sony Blu-Ray player. Unless its purchased, it won't count. Same will go for the Panasonic (or Pioneer, I forget) that will come with 5 free movies inside the box.

Now, the current 360 add-on promotion (Buy a 360 Add-on get any 2 movies free) will count as a sale as they are rung through and deducted from store inventory.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Not really. Either count it in both categories, or don't count it in either. Don't say "The PS3 isn't a blu-ray player", but then include it in BLU-RAY attach rates.[/QUOTE]

So then we just toss out the 3.5 Million PS3s sold because not a single onecan be used as a Blu-Ray player? I would say mine with 25 movies would prove that to be wrong. However it looks like most, even Sony, tout that they have more Blu-Ray players sold, indicating that they are, in fact, counting the PS3 as a 100% Blu-Ray player. There will never be any way to really solve this issue, so just take both camps PR B.S. as you want. Its not like HD DVD is calling the format war over like Fox did 1 week after announcing a few titles :lol:
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Well, hope your ass smells as they are not 'sold' and not rung through any register. Therefore they are not counted. Much like King Kong inside the 360 add-on, or Black Hawk Down/Fifth Element inside the Sony Blu-Ray player. Unless its purchased, it won't count. Same will go for the Panasonic (or Pioneer, I forget) that will come with 5 free movies inside the box.

Now, the current 360 add-on promotion (Buy a 360 Add-on get any 2 movies free) will count as a sale as they are rung through and deducted from store inventory.[/QUOTE]

I somehow doubt that, but I have no way of proving this. Both camps are just oozing BS back and forth, so what makes you think they will stop with the movie pack ins. I'm sure Sony counted Talladega/Casino Royale, and HD-DVD counted their pack ins. Maybe if they weren't constantly spewing BS back and forth, I'd believe your above post, but, given the statements that both camps are releasing, I find it hard, almost impossible, to believe.
 
[quote name='dpatel']I somehow doubt that, but I have no way of proving this. Both camps are just oozing BS back and forth, so what makes you think they will stop with the movie pack ins. I'm sure Sony counted Talladega/Casino Royale, and HD-DVD counted their pack ins. Maybe if they weren't constantly spewing BS back and forth, I'd believe your above post, but, given the statements that both camps are releasing, I find it hard, almost impossible, to believe.[/QUOTE]

IIRC, the only time Sony counted a pack-in was Casino Royale in the UK.
But yes, both camps have so much PR B.S. its hard to take anything as being truth.
 
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