- LOCK - Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - LOCK -

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[quote name='Deefuzz']Metrodome is UK only...unfortunately for those of us in the US.[/quote]Are you saying it's not import friendly even though it hasn't been released yet?
 
[quote name='dallow']Are you saying it's not import friendly even though it hasn't been released yet?[/quote]

Well I am not sure what player you are using so I can't comment on that, but seeing as though it will be a PAL format (amazon link) I know my US PS3 will not be capable of playing it.
 
[quote name='Deefuzz']Well I am not sure what player you are using so I can't comment on that, but seeing as though it will be a PAL format (amazon link) I know my US PS3 will not be capable of playing it.[/quote]You need a refresher course.

With BD and HD DVD, there is no more PAL and NTSC.
And more than likely, this movie will be region free as most BDs are.

So yes, it'll probably work on your US PS3, just like my UK Starship Troopers import.
 
NYTimes wrote today that Paramount is a 18 month deal for $150 mil. Looks like the money is coming mostly from Toshiba and not Microsoft, so MS would like us to believe anyway.

Financially it seems like a pretty good deal, unless someone expects them to have sold 10 million BDs in the next 18 months (I doubt it would have happened)
 
[quote name='dallow']You need a refresher course.

With BD and HD DVD, there is no more PAL and NTSC.
And more than likely, this movie will be region free as most BDs are.

So yes, it'll probably work on your US PS3, just like my UK Starship Troopers import.[/quote]

I'll admit I am new to the BD/HD DVD scene, so thanks for that. I had read on the UK PS3 forums a while back that UK BD will not play on a US PS3, I had attributed that to the PAL/NTSC differences, but I guess it is region differences that prevent that.

I am familiar with Metrodome and they typically do have their DVD releases region locked, I assumed that would translate to Blu Ray as well...But I would be more than happy to see that not be the case.
 
[quote name='zewone']Then why don't you stop supporting Blu-Ray?

The same reason as the writer of the article, because you favor Sony.

It has nothing to do with stopping the format war for the good of the consumers. It has to do with you wanting Sony to succeed.[/quote]

Because 25gb > 15gb and The extra 10gb when backing up stuff on my computer would be very nice to have. Lets say I need to back up 100gb of information, using single layer discs. I would need 4 Blu-ray discs as opposed to 7 HD-DVD's. This is why I support Blu-ray.
 
thats really irrelevant as of right now unless your actually putting down the cash for the burner plus bd/hd r's.


I don't think anyone uses that as a deciding factor as of right now since both discs have room for improvement size wise. Not too mention the still very slow "1x" speed

The r's are still very expensive.. heck dl dvd r's are still NOT cheap... which is fucking nuts
 
[quote name='guyver2077']thats really irrelevant as of right now unless your actually putting down the cash for the burner plus bd/hd r's.


I don't think anyone uses that as a deciding factor as of right now since both discs have room for improvement size wise.

The r's are still very expensive..[/quote]Actually it's quite relevant.
Obviously the winning format is what PC tech is going to be geared for.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Because 25gb > 15gb and The extra 10gb when backing up stuff on my computer would be very nice to have. Lets say I need to back up 100gb of information, using single layer discs. I would need 4 Blu-ray discs as opposed to 7 HD-DVD's. This is why I support Blu-ray.[/QUOTE]

That is pretty retarded unless you have a hard-on to spend 500+ on a burner and $20 per BR-R

You need to back up 100GB of information? Go buy an 250GB external hard drive for $100

It will be a long time before the next generation of optical discs past hard drives in the best price category. I mean if they ever past them. Hard drive prices are coming down at an amazing rate and soon 1TB drives will be the standard.
 
Sure it will have an impact but not right now....

Prices are still too high and its definitely not worth the money to invest in the current first generation technology..

Hopefully toshiba will change that when their laptops begin to include reasonably priced hd drives in 08
 
[quote name='Sporadic']That is pretty retarded.

You need to back up 100GB of information? Go buy an 250GB external hard drive for $100

It will be a long time before the next generation of optical discs past hard drives in the best price category.[/quote]


period!
 
[quote name='Sporadic']That is pretty retarded unless you have a hard-on to spend 500+ on a burner and $20 per BR-R

You need to back up 100GB of information? Go buy an 250GB external hard drive for $100

It will be a long time before the next generation of optical discs past hard drives in the best price category. I mean if they have past them. Prices are coming down.[/quote]
Because you know, Hard drives can't crash or anything. :roll:

Blu-ray's, or optical media in general, or pretty indestructable as long as you take care of them. And I am not saying now, I am saying in teh future. I didn't buy a DVD burner until they were around ~100, and I wouldn't buy a blu-ray one, and no matter how you spin it, 25gb per layer has been and will always be more space than 15 gb. And to call someone retarded for wanting more space per layer is stupid and close sighted.

And how the hell did Total recall and Terminator 2 end up on HD-DVD if Tri-star is owned by Sony????
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']God forbid a burn messes up. Because you know, that doesn't happen or anything.[/quote]
Sure it does, but a optical disc is a lot cheaper than a hard drive, (and takes less time to fix)
 
We already argued about this.

If you want to carry discs around, BDs are the best bet.
Not everyone wants to carry external hard drives.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Because you know, Hard drives can't crash or anything. :roll:[/QUOTE]

Hell, at these prices, buy two and make a backup of the backup and then put that backup back in the box. I've had drives that are over 15 years old still work the same day I got them.

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Blu-ray's, or optical media in general, or pretty indestructable as long as you take care of them. [/QUOTE]

I guess you didn't have to deal with the shitty dyes used in the first generation of CDs?

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']And I am not saying now, I am saying in teh future. I didn't buy a DVD burner until they were around ~100, and I wouldn't buy a blu-ray one, and no matter how you spin it, 25gb per layer has been and will always be more space than 15 gb. And to call someone retarded for wanting more space per layer is stupid and close sighted.[/QUOTE]

By the time we reach that point, 1TB drives should be cheap and plentiful.

The day of optical media outclassing hard drives price/data-wise is over.

And if you are thinking of backing up your Blu-Ray movies, don't. Sony already chopped that down at the knees (player). If you want to back it up, you have to strip of everything except the movie.

- edit [quote name='H.Cornerstone']And how the hell did Total recall and Terminator 2 end up on HD-DVD if Tri-star is owned by Sony????[/QUOTE]

Studio Canal owns the rights in France and they are releasing on HD-DVD.

I imported.
 
Guyver, you back up BDs with with PS3 and linux?
And how do you back up HD DVD flicks?

And third, why?

If the iTunes store had a bigger selection, I'd honestly go the digital distribution route.
Click to expand...
GTFO Mr. Compression. :)
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Because 25gb > 15gb and The extra 10gb when backing up stuff on my computer would be very nice to have. Lets say I need to back up 100gb of information, using single layer discs. I would need 4 Blu-ray discs as opposed to 7 HD-DVD's. This is why I support Blu-ray.[/QUOTE]
Because, you know, if HD-DVD won out as the format, they wouldn't be able to make larger capacity discs then 15GBs.

What about if those 7 HD-DVDs cost you $10 each as opposed to the $25 per BR disc?

You know what would be great? If there was two options to drive the price down!

[quote name='dallow']
And how do you back up HD DVD flicks?[/QUOTE]

You can use the 360 HD-DVD drive on your PC.
 
[quote name='dallow']And how do you back up HD DVD flicks?[/QUOTE]

I've done this one. You just have to plug in the 360 attachment to a PC and then run one or two programs (can't remember the names of them)

You can run the data files with PowerDVD.

[quote name='dallow']And third, why?[/QUOTE]

I was trying to take full 1080p screenshots of one of the movies I imported.

Never got it to work but I did take 720p screenshots.

Somebody got it to work though and did Planet Earth screenshots.

 
read all the post before you start flaming...
cause HD-DVD is the most efficent way to have high def these days... so what if it have more storage space, the movie is the same lenght on either format... picture quality is on par... so cost is king
and right now the players for HD-DVD is cheaper

for prices sake, HD-DVD wins cause their players are cost less. period.
and now the full on support for HD-DVD is music to my ears...
I like the idea of higher storage space, but external harddrives is best for that.
so for movies sake, i believe HD-DVD will come on top. :D

did you read the article on the wii news about paramount supporting HD-DVD only? I saw it yesterday when i check the news with my wii :p
 
[quote name='dallow']Guyver, you back up BDs with with PS3 and linux?
And how do you back up HD DVD flicks?

And third, why?

GTFO Mr. Compression. :)[/quote]

1) i played with linux for a bit at first. It was a little tricky but it does work. That option pretty much cancelled itself out when i decided to finally use my ps3 a month or two ago and updated the firmware.

2)The addon is such an awesome device. I cant stress enough the value you get here.


3) Mainly just for my own curiosity and learning the structure of the discs
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']Dude...WTF is up with the Smallville ad?[/quote]

reminder to save some cash for it. will prob add spidey to the list as that will cost $ as well.
 
postit.jpg
 
[quote name='guyver2077']XBOX ELITE + xbl[/QUOTE]

Call me a ninny if you must, but I'd rather not deal with downloading movies from 'other' places.

Anytime I've tried it I've never had any luck.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Hell, at these prices, buy two and make a backup of the backup and then put that backup back in the box. I've had drives that are over 15 years old still work the same day I got them.



I guess you didn't have to deal with the shitty dyes used in the first generation of CDs?



By the time we reach that point, 1TB drives should be cheap and plentiful.

The day of optical media outclassing hard drives price/data-wise is over.

And if you are thinking of backing up your Blu-Ray movies, don't. Sony already chopped that down at the knees (player). If you want to back it up, you have to strip of everything except the movie.

- edit

Studio Canal owns the rights in France and they are releasing on HD-DVD.

I imported.[/quote]

Nope, I'm only 20 and didn't deal with cd burners and cds till about 1998, back when my bro's first burner was 2x. I don't plan on backing up my blu-ray movies, but I have already had 2 SATA hard drives crash on me and 2 IDE, so having optical media to carry around is better than a hard drive, as dallow said. I don't want to plan on backing up on my blu-ray movies, and seeing how they are really hard to ruin, don't see a need to.

And bigger hard drives just means more stuff I will need to back up with bigger optical media.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']WWE doesn't film in HD yet, so I wouldn't count on this being a real product.

*HOWEVER*, the recent DVD distribution (as of 6 or so months ago) WWE signed was with a Weinstein group (genius entertainment?), so chances are bloody good to great that, should WWE hidef video happen, it will be HD DVD exclusive.[/QUOTE]

I thought WWE Films was releasing with Lionsgate who are Blu-Ray only?
 
So Bay makes another post. If you didn't like him for his statements earlier, prepare your stomach for a churning...

http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=31217&highlight=#31217

Last night at dinner I was having dinner with three blu-ray owners, they were pissed about no Transformers Blu-ray and I drank the kool aid hook line and sinker. So at 1:30 in the morning I posted - nothing good ever comes out of early am posts mind you - I over reacted. I heard where Paramount is coming from and the future of HD and players that will be close to the $200 mark which is the magic number. I like what I heard.

As a director, I'm all about people seeing films in the best quality possible, and I saw and heard firsthand people upset about a corporate decision.

So today I saw 300 on HD, it rocks!

So I think I might be back on to do Transformers 2!

Michael Bay
Click to expand...

I can't help laugh at this whole situation. Clearly, someone somewhere phoned him up and told him to stop with the jackassery.
 
Paramount's CTO on Why His Studio Is Dumping Blu-ray
Alan Bell discusses why HD DVD is his studio's exclusive high-definition format.

In a surprise move, Paramount and DreamWorks Animation announced this week that they would align themselves exclusively with the HD DVD high-definition format. The controversial decision has attracted a lot of attention, and not just because it comes at a time when market indicators have been pointing to competitor Blu-ray Disc as having the lead (disc sales have been running 2-1 in Blu-ray's favor).

Rumors have swirled since the news broke, suggesting that Paramount and DreamWorks are being heavily compensated for their exclusivity pact--to the tune of $50 million and $100 million, respectively. A Paramount spokesperson says only: " ... whenever we conduct co-marketing, production deals, or other agreements, we never discuss business terms."

I don't doubt that some level of financial incentive made this a good business decision for the two studios. But according to Alan Bell, executive vice president and chief technology officer for Paramount Pictures, there's more to the change in allegiance than either a mere abandonment of Blu-ray's higher-capacity advantage or pure business dealings.

Here's some background from Bell about the recent news.

PCW: Presumably, making this move wasn't something you did lightly. What led up to the decision to shift your production exclusively to HD DVD?

Bell: Paramount has been getting experience with publishing titles in both formats for the last year. We've had a hands-on ability to see how these formats work in practice. And after some hands-on analysis, we decided that HD DVD was the format we wanted to support.

PCW: Why was that?

Bell: For one thing, the lower prices of the players: It's good for consumers, it's good for our customer base.

For another thing, HD DVD came out of the DVD Forum. The DVD Forum is very experienced at developing and managing specs. [HD DVD] was launched in a very stable way, with stable specifications, and they had specified a reference player model, so all players had to be compatible with the HDi interactivity layer, and all players had to be capable of the interactivity. So when we publish titles in the future that have interactivity, we can be assured that every HD DVD player will be able to handle this content.

PCW: So, as a studio, you believe that the underlying stability of HD DVD's specs is a benefit?

Bell: When you look at what the DVD Forum has specified as required, it's a good set of advanced technologies. You can be assured that that benefit will be available to all consumers, no matter what [player] model they purchased. That speaks to the DVD Forum, that it published specs that were complete and market-ready, and that it didn't need to publish up [and change the specs], as Blu-ray has. To some degree, [such changes are] going to create some legacy issues.

For example, HD DVD players have [ethernet] connectivity built-in. If the player doesn't have that, or it's optional, you can't rely on that [as a feature].

PCW: Didn't we see the same thing with DVD players, though, where some features were mandatory and others weren't?

Bell: When you have a format, you generally have mandatory requirements on players, and you sometimes have optional features. On DVD, Dolby Digital 5.1 was mandatory, but DTS 5.1 was optional. But that meant that when you published a title, you never really knew how many customers had players that supported the feature you were adding to the disc at some cost. On HD DVD, the mandatory audio technologies are Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, and Dolby TrueHD. [For more details, see an explanation of the differences among the various Dolby technologies.]

PCW: Over time, though, DTS became a de facto standard on DVD players. Don't you expect to see the same thing happen over time with Blu-ray's specs, such as the requirements for storage and interactivity via an ethernet connection? [Paramount's decision comes ahead of Blu-ray's new minimum specs, which go into effect for players sold after October 31.]

Bell: Eventually, that's true, but right now we have early adopters and enthusiasts [buying players]. If you do migrate the spec and your options are not included on the early players, these are the very people you leave behind. They're our most valuable customers in launching a new format, and you want to make sure that what they buy continues to represent the best of the format.

PCW: What about the additional capacity of Blu-ray, which has 50GB dual-layer discs, as opposed to HD DVD's 30GB dual-layer discs? Some studios have cited the additional capacity as necessary. Are you going to miss having the extra headroom?

Bell: This is a little bit overrated. Making a choice like the one Paramount has made is a multifaceted choice: It depends upon manufacturability, the reliability of players, the cost, the infrastructure that's developed to support our creation of titles. Many different factors came into play--including capacity. When Paramount made this decision, we considered the broad spectrum.

If everything else were equal, more capacity would be better. Why not?

But if you convert the playing time, a 30GB disc gives you somewhere between 3 and 4 hours of capacity. It depends upon the nature of the movie and how you compress it. There's no compromise on the quality. We've found that 95 percent of movies are less than 2.25 hours long. With a disc whose capacity is 3 or 4 hours, you can put a fair amount of bonus material on that disc as well. So 30GB with the option to add another disc is fine, from our point of view.

PCW: What if the multiple soundtracks and high-definition bonus materials won't fit on a single disc?

Bell: If there's an overflow of bonus material, we'll just go to another disc. That's not an issue for consumers. In some cases, they consider that it has more value. It's done routinely in DVD. Why put every single title on a high-capacity disc if it doesn't need it?

PCW: Do you expect capacity needs to change in the future?

Bell: A 45GB disc is under development. [Editors' note: This disc has been in development for two years.] Secondly, compression will become more effective. The number of minutes you get on a disc depends upon how much you can compress a movie. As we gain experience with the new codecs, the ability to compress at high quality will be improved.

Capacity is a factor, but it's not an overriding factor. In the grand scheme of things, the better proposition for consumers in our view, and for our business needs, is HD DVD.

PCW: From your first-hand experiences, what can you tell us about the difference in programming languages between HD DVD, which uses Microsoft's HDi technology, and Blu-ray, which uses BD-Java?

Bell: BD-Java is a programming language. The benefit is that it's very flexible. The drawback is that you may need 100 lines of BD-Java code. HDi is a relatively compact piece of code; one command can cover quite a bit of interactivity.

BD-Java is also more complex, so the possibility of errors is greater. And when BD players are put out, [there's the question of whether] they all support the scenarios as coded up from the low level. [Some of the early problems with BD-Java discs] were in part due to the complexity that BD-Java brings. From our point of view, HDi offers all of the flexibility we need, in practice, and it does so in a more simplified way and in a way that we feel leads to better compatibility, better reliability, and lower costs.

PCW: Up until now, how have you approached coding your discs for HDi and BD-Java?

Bell: At this particular point in time, we've been able to supply more features with HDi and HD DVD than with BD-Java and Blu-ray Disc. What we have typically done in practice is that we've created the interactive scenarios in HD DVD and then tried to pull them into Blu-ray. But that has not been entirely possible: Some things we can do in HDi are not supported in BD-Java. If you're going to do BD-Java, you need someone who's capable of programming at a low level. With HDi, you don't need somebody with that additional level of training. We don't need programmers to code our discs.

PCW: Do you think users are interested in the interactivity on these discs?

Bell: Interactivity is an important part of why you would move up from DVD. Yes, [high-def] has a great picture, but is that enough? Connectivity is something that studios will grow into, and it's something that we believe studios will grow into.

We're thinking about [having media servers to provide extra content via the Internet], but those kinds of investments cost money. The motivation to do them grows as the installed base grows. If we see there's a sufficiently large installed base to justify the cost of the server, we'll do it. Right now we're concentrating on getting a great picture out, and great interactivity.

PCW: Will this exclusive period extend for a limited time, or is this an indefinite arrangement?

Bell: At this moment in time, it's an indefinite commitment. The core of this announcement comes from our experience, and what our consumers are looking for. We hope this will influence consumers' choices.
Click to expand...

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,136253-c,dvdtechnology/article.html

Wow, me and Paramount are on the exact same page on just about everything.
 
While taking a shower, I've decided my favorite part about this whole Bay thing is that the man just readily admitted his ignorance regarding the High definition formats. Meaning a guy, who is working on a Masters in Psychology and is a Walgreens Photo Specialist, knows more than a director that is supposed to be on the cutting edge of technology.

His opinion of the formats was swayed over a fucking dinner. How many actually take what their friends say at face value? If one of mine makes a claim, I double check his ass later when he's gone. I don't just sit there and think "Hmm. He does have a point. I have heard HD DVD is supported by terrorists."

And its even better he's swayed back when he realizes a huge payday is going the way of the dodo (not surprisingly, I'd expect him to sign on for Transformer 2 within the next week sans the leverage he was trying to gain. That shit went right out the window).

Hollywood is awesome.
 
[quote name='dallow']Are you sure you aren't Alan Bell sporadic?[/QUOTE]

:lol: I wish.

If I was him, I wouldn't be stuck watching HD on a 19" computer monitor and have only 44 movies.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']:lol: I wish.

If I was him, I wouldn't be stuck watching HD on a 19" computer monitor and have only 44 movies.[/quote]:shock:
 
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