- LOCK - Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - LOCK -

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[quote name='H.Cornerstone']I don't see why MS would increase the cost of the 360 by making a 360 with built in HD-DVD[/quote]
What makes you think a (for example) $500 120GB Xbox 360 with HDMI and HD DVD wouldn't be competitive with a $600 80GB PS3 with Blu-Ray? Or even a $500 PS3, assuming the rumored price drop comes to fruition? I never suggested that ALL SKUs would get HD DVD. But it wouldn't hurt to replace the Elite when it's discontinued with a media-centric version. Those not interested in HDM can always get the $350 HDMI Premium or the $280 Core.

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']as they don't suppor the format entirely[/quote]
Not sure what you mean by this. I mean, granted, they haven't purchased a studio outright to help their side win. But they do provide free VC-1 encoding and HDi mastering support to the studios, and they have sold ~300k addons at a rather modest profit (based on the fact that the HP external costs twice as much with no remote and no King Kong). And don't forget that logos for their HDi are now going to start showing up on all HD DVD gear.

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']and 2nd, can't see hwo they could really make it smaller.[/quote]
There are quite a few laptop drives in the market. Surely there's something in between the current bigger-than-a-wii drive and a 5x5x1/2" laptop one.

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']My guess would be the 3rd in just making it black for elite owners.[/quote]
I would tend to agree, but I wouldn't discount the other options so easily.
 
[quote name='dallow']Why doesn't the HD DVD add on play HDi features?

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/20/xbox-360-to-get-a-new-hd-dvd-drive-in-2008/

I think the article isn't correct for some portions right?[/QUOTE]

Engadget (and Gizmodo) being stupid. The 360 HD DVD add-on supports all HDi content and should not have any issues has the code is finalized. I think we will get either a smaller version, black color, built into a 360, or simply a new bundle with additional movies.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Wow. Just...wow.[/QUOTE]

...any article which shows a check for $150 million?
No? Ok, great. So let me just go ahead and say the BDA paid Fox $300 million to be Blu-ray exclusive then.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/21/t...rss&adxnnlx=1187698143-B5wO3L/F+4r1NyAsum87vQ

I take it that two Viacom sources and the New York Times aren't good enough for you?

No, seriously. I know they aren't good enough for you. Keep that head in the sand.[/QUOTE]


Ok

Paramount and DreamWorks Animation together will receive about $150 million in financial incentives for their commitment to HD DVD, according to two Viacom executives with knowledge of the deal but who asked not to be identified.
Click to expand...

So, where is that check for $150 Million? Incentives, Duhh. We all know that. What you're trying to tell me is Paramount is bad for taking $150 million in incentives, yet Disney and Fox are not because they won't say exactly how much the BDA gave them in incentives, right? I'm sure Fox and Disney didn't get anything because "the format is so secure with encryption and Blu-ray sales are just so awesome', right? :roll: You are fooling yourself if you don't think that Fox and Disney (and every other studio supporting one format) is not getting incentives in some way to release only on that format.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Yet, Paramount did not get paid and there has been no proof of it besides a rumor some reported said.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='GizmoGC']So, where is that check for $150 Million? Incentives, Duhh. We all know that.[/QUOTE]

Look, I know you're an admitted troll, but can't you just humor me and be consistent? at least be consistent on the same page, for the love of all that is holy.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Look, I know you're an admitted troll, but can't you just humor me and be consistent? at least be consistent on the same page, for the love of all that is holy.[/QUOTE]

Again, I said show me where they got paid. Incentives is NOT money!
 
lostodyssey4dvds.jpg


Lost Odysessy is four discs long!
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Again, I said show me where they got paid. Incentives is NOT money![/QUOTE]

Let me repeat myself. Perhaps you'll figure it out this time, Semantics McParser.

"Wow. Just...wow."
 
[quote name='DarkNessBear']
lostodyssey4dvds.jpg


Lost Odysessy is four discs long![/QUOTE]

Awesome! I know, its really tough to get up and put in a new disc every 10-15 hours. Thanks Sony for charging us $200-$300 more for Blu-ray to be forced into your PS3! :roll:
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Let me repeat myself. Perhaps you'll figure it out this time, Semantics McParser.

"Wow. Just...wow."[/QUOTE]

:roll:

Just remember, you won't be walking into Best Buy and buying Transformers on Blu-ray next month :cool:
 
[quote name='geko29']What makes you think a (for example) $500 120GB Xbox 360 with HDMI and HD DVD wouldn't be competitive with a $600 80GB PS3 with Blu-Ray? Or even a $500 PS3, assuming the rumored price drop comes to fruition? I never suggested that ALL SKUs would get HD DVD. But it wouldn't hurt to replace the Elite when it's discontinued with a media-centric version. Those not interested in HDM can always get the $350 HDMI Premium or the $280 Core.


Not sure what you mean by this. I mean, granted, they haven't purchased a studio outright to help their side win. But they do provide free VC-1 encoding and HDi mastering support to the studios, and they have sold ~300k addons at a rather modest profit (based on the fact that the HP external costs twice as much with no remote and no King Kong). And don't forget that logos for their HDi are now going to start showing up on all HD DVD gear.


There are quite a few laptop drives in the market. Surely there's something in between the current bigger-than-a-wii drive and a 5x5x1/2" laptop one.


I would tend to agree, but I wouldn't discount the other options so easily.[/quote]

Yes, a 500$ elite with HD-DVD would be competative with the PS3, however, they need to be competative with the Wii, not the PS3 and thats what they are trying to do with the price drop, and introducing yet another SKU that is 500$ would not be beneficial to them in my mind, as I believe their best seller is still the Premium. And I guess you could make it a little smaller, but not much to make a difference in my mind. And yes, they do provide a codec, but that is also used on Blu-rays, and the only reason they want to support HD-DVD is so Blu-ray doesn't out right win and it's harder for htem to get into the DD.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']:roll:

Just remember, you won't be walking into Best Buy and buying Transformers on Blu-ray next month :cool:[/QUOTE]

You're right. I won't. Haven't we established that I have taste before?
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Awesome! I know, its really tough to get up and put in a new disc every 10-15 hours. Thanks Sony for charging us $200-$300 more for Blu-ray to be forced into your PS3! :roll:[/quote]

360 elite = $450

60gb PS3 = $500

Not 200-300 more you dumbass.

And your one of those bitches that complained when the jump was made between CD to DVD. "Why cant we just stay on CD!! Wahhh!"
 
[quote name='DarkNessBear']360 elite = $450

60gb PS3 = $500

Not 200-300 more you dumbass.

And your one of those bitches that complained when the jump was made between CD to DVD. "Why cant we just stay on CD!! Wahhh!"[/QUOTE]

How about the Core for $279 since it plays games? Its the bare minimum, but guess what, if I put Disc 2 of Blue Dragon in it, it WILL play, dumbass! :roll:

Why would I complain about CD to DVD? If you havnt noticed, I own both formats. I don't buy SD DVD unless its a TV show. You're simply thread crapping here.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']You're right. I won't. Haven't we established that I have taste before?[/QUOTE]

...which is why you prefer Blu-ray which has Sony, Fox and Disney exclusive? Yeah...because they have some quality films out right now :lol:
 
Sony would just not take a loss if there was no blu ray player in the PS3. We would probably still pay the same, and they would just make more money. The consumer wins.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']...which is why you prefer Blu-ray which has Sony, Fox and Disney exclusive? Yeah...because they have some quality films out right now :lol:[/quote]
Live free or die hard was pretty well liked, and so is Cars which is coming out. Sony... well spider-man but not the 3rd one. Best studio this year was probably Warner Bros, which both sides get.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Live free or die hard was pretty well liked, and so is Cars which is coming out. Sony... well spider-man but not the 3rd one. Best studio this year was probably Warner Bros, which both sides get.[/QUOTE]

You mean Live Free, Die Hard which will be a PG13 cut for Blu-ray?

I just find it hard to believe someone like myke has 22 movies on Blu-ray but only sees interest in 2 movies on HD DVD. Considering it has 4 exclusive studios and all :lol:
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']How about the Core for $279 since it plays games? Its the bare minimum, but guess what, if I put Disc 2 of Blue Dragon in it, it WILL play, dumbass! :roll:[/QUOTE]

You ain't getting to disc 2 of Blue Dragon without a memory card, toots. That makes it a $329 system, bare minimum.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']You ain't getting to disc 2 of Blue Dragon without a memory card, toots. That makes it a $329 system, bare minimum.[/QUOTE]

Memory cards are $50 now?
Oh, wait, there $25 :roll:
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Memory cards are $50 now?
Oh, wait, there $25 :roll:[/QUOTE]

Look, he of so-frequently calling any format he doesn't love unconditionally "crippled," let's simply start with the idea that, in order to use your 360 with the best out-of-box potential, you'll be spending $350 for the Pro. A 360 without a HDD is indeed "crippled" due to what it cannot do. Anyone who says otherwise (and I fully expect you to) is a blithering idiot. Which makes, for the moment, the PS3 $150 more than the 360. Not $200. Not $300. $150.

Back to the format war.

Oh, look! Wal-Mart went and got scruples at some point!

Announced at IFA 2007, Venturer's SHD7000 HD DVD player will be priced at $199, making in the cheapest standalone high-def format player available in the market.

Beating even Toshiba's entry-level offering, the Venturer player was set to change the game for HD DVD by enticing consumers to go next-gen in an affordable way.

This careful price positioning was seen as an important strategy for Toshiba's HD DVD road map, hitting Blu-ray where it is weak - in the wallet area.

But it seems that the SHD7000 player has hit a road-block with major American retailers deciding not to stock the device.

Wal-Mart, Ultimate Electronics and Bjorn’s all say they are not committed to carrying the Venturer player, stating they would prefer products from bigger brand companies.

"We have no plans to have Venturer in our stores this holiday," Wal-Mart spokeswoman Melissa O’Brien said.

"We will continue to offer the best values on popular HD DVD and Blu-ray products from leading consumer brands like Sony, Samsung, Philips, Toshiba and RCA."

Wal-Mart does sell some Venturer DVD players, so it might seem confusing to consumers as to why they can't benefit from the cheap HD DVD version in Wal-Mart stores.
Click to expand...

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pocketli/20070920/ttc-american-retailers-refuse-199-ventur-57dbc65_2.html

I hope Yahoo is a satisfactory news source for your highly skeptical of anything you didn't agree with before coming into this thread standards.

Either the current cultural anti-Chinese manufacturing climate has made this a problem (I'm not so sure on that), Wal-Mart wants to boost its image by focusing on "big brands" (a possibility, since research showed they were losing sales due to a public image that decided against shopping at Wal-Mart because they felt the products were shittily made, from shitty brands, and wouldn't last). Or, perhaps Venturer couldn't meet Wal-Mart's high production forecast (which, given that it's an HD DVD player, can't be all *that* high of an order demand).

Either way, allow me a hearty ":lol:." Feel free to spin away, DJ.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Look, he of so-frequently calling any format he doesn't love unconditionally "crippled," let's simply start with the idea that, in order to use your 360 with the best out-of-box potential, you'll be spending $350 for the Pro. A 360 without a HDD is indeed "crippled" due to what it cannot do. Anyone who says otherwise (and I fully expect you to) is a blithering idiot. Which makes, for the moment, the PS3 $150 more than the 360. Not $200. Not $300. $150. [/quote]

Again, last I checked, a Core and a Memory card will play ever game on the 360 right now. Sorry, you fail.


Oh, look! Wal-Mart went and got scruples at some point!



http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pocketli/20070920/ttc-american-retailers-refuse-199-ventur-57dbc65_2.html

I hope Yahoo is a satisfactory news source for your highly skeptical of anything you didn't agree with before coming into this thread standards.

Either the current cultural anti-Chinese manufacturing climate has made this a problem (I'm not so sure on that), Wal-Mart wants to boost its image by focusing on "big brands" (a possibility, since research showed they were losing sales due to a public image that decided against shopping at Wal-Mart because they felt the products were shittily made, from shitty brands, and wouldn't last). Or, perhaps Venturer couldn't meet Wal-Mart's high production forecast (which, given that it's an HD DVD player, can't be all *that* high of an order demand).

Either way, allow me a hearty ":lol:." Feel free to spin away, DJ.
Click to expand...


Great, you quoted a 3 week article (from the UK and Ireland no less)! I guess it takes 3 weeks for news to hit the UK, eh?

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6473655.html?nid=2705

Same quote. :roll:

What next?!?! Are you going to tell me Spider-Man 3 is Blu-ray exclusive?
 
[quote name='DarkNessBear']
lostodyssey4dvds.jpg


Lost Odysessy is four discs long![/QUOTE]

And I bet it will still be $60 so who cares?

Blue Dragon is 3 and you don't even have to change disc until some obscene amount of hours in (well at least obscene to me)

Not only that but these games use a shitload of CGI movies. Really, it was 20+ minutes in until I really got to play.
 
Indeed. The form the money comes in depends on whether or not they actually got paid. Since the form was not a check, Paramount did not get paid. Makes sense.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']And I bet it will still be $60 so who cares?

Blue Dragon is 3 and you don't even have to change disc until some obscene amount of hours in (well at least obscene to me)

Not only that but these games use a shitload of CGI movies. Really, it was 20+ minutes in until I really got to play.[/QUOTE]

Don't try to use logic on them. They are happy with paying an extra $200-$300 just to NOT get up every 10-15 hours and put a disc in. But hey, at least they have some quality games available to them. Remember when they were claiming that Lair, Heavenly Sword and Warhawk would boost PS3 sales and help them become #1 again? Guess THAT didn't happen :lol:
 
[quote name='dpatel']Indeed. The form the money comes in depends on whether or not they actually got paid. Since the form was not a check, Paramount did not get paid. Makes sense.[/QUOTE]

So they did not get a $150 Million check then, right?

I am still :lol: at Disney's statements. How evil Paramount is! How dare they choose a side!
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Yet, Paramount did not get paid and there has been no proof of it besides a rumor some reported said. Disney IS getting some sort of incentives, same as Fox and any other studio releasing only on Blu-ray. Wether its cheaper prices on media or something they ARE getting some sort of incentive. Why in the world would any studio support ONE format when they could do both and get 100% possible sales? At this point Blu-ray is NOT selling as many movies as the BDA and Sony promised. The PS3 was NOT a huge success and HD DVD still kicks along selling just as many movies as they have before. For Disney to start talking crap is laughable considering to date Paramount has released more movies then Disney, and they havn't even announced their full Q4 schedule yet.[/QUOTE]

:lol:
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Don't try to use logic on them. They are happy with paying an extra $200-$300 just to NOT get up every 10-15 hours and put a disc in. But hey, at least they have some quality games available to them. Remember when they were claiming that Lair, Heavenly Sword and Warhawk would boost PS3 sales and help them become #1 again? Guess THAT didn't happen :lol:[/QUOTE]

The really weird thing is that this is what only the second game to use more than one disc and all of the sudden that means DVD isn't enough anymore?

Sales say Xbox 360/Microsoft made the right choice by not shoe-horning HD-DVD in and bumping up the price even more.

DVD will be plenty to carry us to the next Xbox when HD-DVD prices should be even lower and it won't be a question of whether you should sacrifice market share for something that isn't really necessary.
 
[quote name='dpatel']:lol:[/QUOTE]

I'm all for every studio going neutral. I'd love to dump my PS3 and buy everything on HD DVD. Not going to happen though, sigh.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']The really weird thing is that this is what only the second game to use more than one disc and all of the sudden that means DVD isn't enough anymore?

Sales say Xbox 360/Microsoft made the right choice by not shoe-horning HD-DVD in and bumping up the price even more.

DVD will be plenty to carry us to the next Xbox when HD-DVD prices should be even lower and it won't be a question of whether you should sacrifice market share for something that isn't really necessary.[/QUOTE]

Weren't there two games that also had to sacrifice some content due to the limitations of DVD? I'm not saying Blu-ray is needed, and I don't even think it is worth the extra cost, but I definitely do think it is more beneficial than simple eliminating the need for consumers to switch discs. Problem is, pretty much all the benefits are on the developer end, so, we, the consumers, don't really get to see any real direct advantages even though we do pay more for it.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']The really weird thing is that this is what only the second game to use more than one disc and all of the sudden that means DVD isn't enough anymore?

Sales say Xbox 360/Microsoft made the right choice by not shoe-horning HD-DVD in and bumping up the price even more.

DVD will be plenty to carry us to the next Xbox when HD-DVD prices should be even lower and it won't be a question of whether you should sacrifice market share for something that isn't really necessary.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, its the second game two require more then 1 disc, oh the pain!
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']I'm all for every studio going neutral. I'd love to dump my PS3 and buy everything on HD DVD. Not going to happen though, sigh.[/QUOTE]

Not sure what that has to do with the bolded portions. You basically answered your own question about whether or not Paramount got paid.

Edit: and from your posts following the Paramount exclusive announcement, I highly doubt the above is true.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Weren't there two games that also had to sacrifice some content due to the limitations of DVD? I'm not saying Blu-ray is needed, and I don't even think it is worth the extra cost, but I definitely do think it is more beneficial than simple eliminating the need for consumers to switch discs. Problem is, pretty much all the benefits are on the developer end, so, we, the consumers, don't really get to see any real direct advantages even though we do pay more for it.[/QUOTE]

I think I remember some BS mode in Project Gotham 4 with the game being night and day? OMG!!!! What a loss!
 
[quote name='dpatel']Not sure what that has to do with the bolded portions. You basically answered your own question about whether or not Paramount got paid.

Edit: and from your posts following the Paramount exclusive announcement, I highly doubt the above is true.[/QUOTE]

...Which they did not.

Like I said when it first happened, I couldn't give a damn.
You would have to be pretty naive to think that Disney and Fox don't get any type of incentive to release only on Blu-ray.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']I think I remember some BS mode in Project Gotham 4 with the game being night and day? OMG!!!! What a loss![/QUOTE]

Yea, that's what I was referring to, but that wasn't really the point of my post.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']...Which they did not.

Like I said when it first happened, I couldn't give a damn.[/quote]

If not giving a damn means constantly bringing up the news, and hailing Transformers as the 'be all end all' of movies, then sure, I'll buy it.

You would have to be pretty naive to think that Disney and Fox don't get any type of incentive to release only on Blu-ray.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I'm glad neither of us believe studios go exclusive for reasons other than some sort of financial gain.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']I think I remember some BS mode in Project Gotham 4 with the game being night and day? OMG!!!! What a loss![/QUOTE]

That being said I wonder which Blu-Ray disc has the least amount of data on it ?

Lair, Heavenly Sword and Warhawk , or the unpatched WIP Motorstorm ?
Coming soon "a demo of a demo" GT5 : Prologue .
 
[quote name='Richlough']That being said I wonder which Blu-Ray disc has the least amount of data on it ?

Lair, Heavenly Sword and Warhawk , or the unpatched WIP Motorstorm ?
Coming soon "a demo of a demo" GT5 : Prologue .[/quote]If you really want to know.

Warhawk has the least with I'd say less than a gig if you don't count the videos.

No trolling allowed here.
Stop everybody.

Ooh, and thanks for the heads up on the demo.

And yes, it did lose night and day.
So it doesn't matter that much to you, that's fine.

The scarier thing is that this is just one instance that we know where something was taken out because of space issues.
Unless we're devs ourselves, we'll never know.
Ignorance really is bliss in this case.
 
If switching discs isn't a big deal why aren't we still using CD's?......

UT3 is another game where PS3 owners get an advantage with all maps being included on a disc which won't happen on hte 360 due to DVD limitations. Also, because of Blu-ray, all games have lossless audio, which many people can't take advantage of, but some can and in the future more probably will. Again is it needed? Probably not, but it is being used.
 
Sorry, I need a link for the claim that all PS3 games have lossless audio. I'm HIGHLY suspicious.

And short games are on both formats. Heavenly Sword anyone? Less than 6 hours for the first playthrough. You can rent it, beat it twice, and return it before the sun goes down.

Likewise, long games are on both formats. Oblivion, Dead Rising, etc etc ad infinitum.
 
[quote name='geko29']Sorry, I need a link for the claim that all PS3 games have lossless audio. I'm HIGHLY suspicious.

And short games are on both formats. Heavenly Sword anyone? Less than 6 hours for the first playthrough. You can rent it, beat it twice, and return it before the sun goes down.

Likewise, long games are on both formats. Oblivion, Dead Rising, etc etc ad infinitum.[/quote]
somehow it still takes more than 9gb, that's LPCM for ya..... I shouldn't say all, but a lot of the first party ones do.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']somehow it still takes more than 9gb, that's LPCM for ya..... I shouldn't say all, but a lot of the first party ones do.[/QUOTE]

You realize using TrueHD MIGHT make it possible on 360's stuff right? I mean SACD is Lossless and takes up ONE cd.
Also dallow my issue is most of the time they'll just go over the DVD mark if this is the case. Otherwise if it's utilized I just see BD-50's loaded with CGI movies. I'd like to see another case scenario, much higher quality textures being used instead. That's not asking too much is it? In a souped up version using the extra space, I mean REALLY using it.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']You realize using TrueHD MIGHT make it possible on 360's stuff right? I mean SACD is Lossless and takes up ONE cd.
Also dallow my issue is most of the time they'll just go over the DVD mark if this is the case. Otherwise if it's utilized I just see BD-50's loaded with CGI movies. I'd like to see another case scenario, much higher quality textures being used instead. That's not asking too much is it? In a souped up version using the extra space, I mean REALLY using it.[/quote]The games are just builit different for PS3 and 360.

Ratchet and Clank is 22GB without any movies, any international stuff, and without padding.

Could you see that game on 360?
Probably. They'd just have to build it differently.

BD gives them room to breath. I don't need to them fill up all 50GB, or even 25GB, I just want devs to have the freedom do what they want without worrying about space and compression techniques.

And give me lossless multichannel audio PLEASE!

TrueHD on 360 games?
I don't think so Tim.
 
[quote name='dallow']The games are just builit different for PS3 and 360.

Ratchet and Clank is 22GB without any movies, any international stuff, and without padding.

Could you see that game on 360?
Probably. They'd just have to build it differently.

BD gives them room to breath. I don't need to them fill up all 50GB, or even 25GB, I just want devs to have the freedom do what they want.

And give me lossless multichannel audio PLEASE!

TrueHD on 360 games?
I don't think so Tim.[/QUOTE]

Regardless FFXIII better have Lossless 7.1 period. I also want NO jaggies whatsoever in the game. It's fucking inexcusable with the power behind it if there are jaggies in it. And they better near max out a 50 gig. disc with HD textures.
Especially considering the fact there's no word on EnixSquare renigging on the PS3 exclusivity of it they better REALLY take advantage of the system.
I'd like to see a game like SOAL take advantage of BR by expanding like 10X the game area with the detail of Shenmue.
 
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