- LOCK - Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - LOCK -

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I want to jump in here real quick and mention that Warner is ditching the HD-DVD/SD-DVD combo discs in October. They are also re-releasing most titles that got combo disc treatment in October as well at a lower price.
 
[quote name='Demolition Man']I want to jump in here real quick and mention that Warner is ditching the HD-DVD/SD-DVD combo discs in October. They are also re-releasing most titles that got combo disc treatment in October as well at a lower price.[/QUOTE]

Smart move, in my opinion. While the whole 'combo' thing is supposed to be an advantage, adding an extra $5 to what already is an expensive price just seems too much.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Sony has spent somewhere in the realm of 2.25 Billion on PS3 subsidies.

I don't know if thats something Sony can make up in other divisions.[/quote]Have you seen PS2 sales?

Sony and Nintendo are still the only two with an overall net profit.
Next fiscal quarter, I'll quote the numbers.
 
[quote name='Demolition Man']The look of "Sky Captain" is intentionally soft so that has nothing to do with the transfer. I did enjoy it however. Fun goofy popcorn film that really isn't memorable by any means but nothing bad either.[/quote]
Oh I know it was intentional, which is why I said it did look great. I just thought the movie itself was atrocious. :)
 
[quote name='dallow']Have you seen PS2 sales?

Sony and Nintendo are still the only two with an overall net profit.
Next fiscal quarter, I'll quote the numbers.[/quote] Sony's gaming division does not make a net profit. They lost $29 million in Q1 on sales of $197 million. They lost $108 million in Q4 '06 on sales of $281 million. They lost $54 million in Q3 '06 (christmas season) on sales of $442 million. Overall, they lost $232 million last year on sales of $1 Billion. FY05 was the last time Sony's Game division was profitible, when they made $8.7 million on sales of $960 million.

Don't expect Q2 to look any better because, aside from manufacturing subsidies, they took an additional $150 million loss on existing PS3 inventory due to the price drop. When losses on a single line item approaches 75% of all sales for a division, it does not bode well for overall profitability.

Massive profits from the PS2/PSP makes the losses look less bad, but it's not anywhere near enough to make them profitable overall. If you meant the company as a whole is profitable and therefore can absorb the losses, that's true, but it's true for MS as well. Sony made $1.3B overall in the past year, averaging $323 million per quarter. However, MS made $14B in the past year, averaging $3.5B per quarter. One company has a more difficult time absorbing a $2.25B loss (with another $1.75B estimated by year's end) than the other has absorbing a $1B loss.
 
[quote name='geko29']Sony's gaming division does not make a net profit. They lost $29 million in Q1 on sales of $197 million. They lost $232 million last year on sales of $1 Billion. FY05 was the last time Sony's Game division was profitible, when they made $8.7 million on sales of $960 million.

Don't expect Q2 to look any better because, aside from manufacturing subsidies, they took an additional $150 million loss on existing PS3 inventory due to the price drop.

Massive profits from the PS2/PSP makes the losses look less bad, but it's not anywhere near enough to make them profitable overall.[/quote]I know they had a loss in the last reports.

I meant overall.
The PS3 is slowing them down right now, but their career in games has been a profit overall.

MS has never made any money.

(and as you have pointed out, it's nothing near "billions")
 
[quote name='dallow']I know they had a loss in the last reports.

I meant overall.
The PS3 is slowing them down right now, but their career in games has been a profit overall.

MS has never made any money.

(and as you have pointed out, it's nothing near "billions")[/quote]

Sony has been hurting throughout their divisions the last 2-3 years. A few divisions like digital cameras are helping them and the fact the tv division reported its first profit in 3 years. Overall they still loss about $600 + million for the last year, only about $200 million of the loss came from the gaming division. There biggest problem in the last year was replacing all the damn flaming batteries. Regardless this has little to do with the HD/BR debate...

I think you have to go back to 2003 to see a huge profit in the games division...
 
Yeah, I don't know about their other divisions.

I remember they were really hurting for a couple years, but were getting back on track, especially with their TVs like you mentioned.

They let their audio/video go to shit, that I remember.
Their ES line used to be nothing but quality, but for the last few years, AV enthusiasts have gone elsewhere.
Starting to make a comeback though.
 
[quote name='dallow']I meant overall.
The PS3 is slowing them down right now, but their career in games has been a profit overall.[/quote] I'll go back as far as I can. Overall results:

Q107: ($29)
FY06: ($232)
FY05: $8.7
FY04: $43
FY03: $68
FY02: $113

That's a net total loss of $28 million since April of '02, which is as close as I can get to the same spot after the PS2 launch as we are after the PS3 launch. If you could go back further (Sony doesn't have that info on their financial reports site), the losses would go back up again due to PS2 subsidies (back through Q2 '00), and there would be shrinking profits in the few years before the PS2 launch (as there were from FY03-FY05) due to R&D. The overall number (since the beginning) is probably positive though, I'll give you that. But I would hope that would be the case with them dominating two generations and selling well over 200 million consoles (and the software and accessories to go with them).

But this time around, the PS3 has taken the place that the Xbox did last time. It was late to the party, carried a subsidy greatly in excess of the norm for a console launch, is only marginally (if at all) more powerful than its competitor, doesn't have nearly as many exclusives as its competitor, and is getting half-assed ports for many crossplatform titles. All of those things are reasons the Xbox did so poorly last gen, and are the same reasons the PS3 is a financial anchor for Sony this gen. It won't look as bad for Sony because MS didn't have a previous-gen superstar in the market to offset its current-gen losses.


[quote name='dallow'] MS has never made any money.

(and as you have pointed out, it's nothing near "billions")[/quote] Completely true. They would have broken even this year if not for the warranty extension, and Zune launch costs fucked them pretty hard in '07 as well (same division). FY08 (started in July) should work out pretty well however, with no launch expenses and the $1B+ hit for the RROD already written down in FY07. But it'll be awhile before they recoup previous years' losses.

[quote name='dallow']They let their audio/video go to shit, that I remember.
Their ES line used to be nothing but quality, but for the last few years, AV enthusiasts have gone elsewhere.[/quote] Yup. This AV enthusiast has gone elsewhere (to the Onkyo TX-NR905) because the STR-DA555ES he paid $1000 for in 1999 never completely worked from the day he bought it, and after being repaired no less than SEVENTEEN times, does not work at all. Well that's not entirely true--the power light comes on.

However, we're really starting to drift offtopic, so this is the last financial/electronics post I'll make.
 
Mmmm that's a nice receiver!
It makes mine look pretty low end in comparison.

Man, you must have an unbelievable set up. What kind of display do you have? (last off topic question)
 
I smell Warner becoming HD DVD exclusive at CEDIA. If they do, I wonder if they will cancel all there future releases or just release them and announce everything else on HD DVD? Announcements from Warner have been hush-hush for a while now...
 
[quote name='dallow']Mmmm that's a nice receiver!
It makes mine look pretty low end in comparison.

Man, you must have an unbelievable set up. What kind of display do you have? (last off topic question)[/quote]
Sony [SIZE=-1]KP-57WS510, 57" CRT RPTV. Eventually I'll have a nice front projector, but not in this house (ranch, low ceilings, no basement). Audio is rounded out by a pair of Polk RT800i's (6.5" woofers and 50watt powered sub), a CSi40 center, and a set of maching rears (forget the model number) installed in the ceiling.

And I'm dropping the coin on the pricey receiver for the same reason I went for the ES. I typically keep these things for a while (the Sony STR-DE925 I switched back to after the first month with the ES is now 10 years old), so it seems to be a worthwhile investment. In this case, it also helps that the 905 has the Reon-VX for upscaling my SD content, and a 2nd HDMI output to run the PC monitor (37" 1080p LCD) in my office, or a bedroom TV should we ever get one. :)
[/SIZE]
 
[quote name='blueweltall']When is CEDIA?[/quote]
September 5-9. Most companies will have their press conferences the evening of September 4th, though a few will wait until the actual show.
 
lets not get all greedy now....

while warner backing hd would be great for us and all... they mentioned their strategy hasnt changed.


so when will transformers go up for presale with concrete info?
 
[quote name='geko29']Sony [SIZE=-1]KP-57WS510, 57" CRT RPTV. Eventually I'll have a nice front projector, but not in this house (ranch, low ceilings, no basement). Audio is rounded out by a pair of Polk RT800i's (6.5" woofers and 50watt powered sub), a CSi40 center, and a set of maching rears (forget the model number) installed in the ceiling.

And I'm dropping the coin on the pricey receiver for the same reason I went for the ES. I typically keep these things for a while (the Sony STR-DE925 I switched back to after the first month with the ES is now 10 years old), so it seems to be a worthwhile investment. In this case, it also helps that the 905 has the Reon-VX for upscaling my SD content, and a 2nd HDMI output to run the PC monitor (37" 1080p LCD) in my office, or a bedroom TV should we ever get one. :)
[/SIZE][/quote]Haha, very nice!

I bought a Sony receiver recently actually that had nice things said about it from AVS members.
The SD scaling to HDMI is first generation I believe so it wouldn't look as clean as yours.

Sony DG1000 if I remember right now correctly.
 
[quote name='guyver2077']lets not get all greedy now....

while warner backing hd would be great for us and all... they mentioned their strategy hasnt changed.


so when will transformers go up for presale with concrete info?[/QUOTE]

Yes, but CEDIA is the best place to announce a change of plans. Paramount was plugging Blu-ray days before they announced going HD DVD exclusive. I fully expect Warner to go HD DVD exclusive and Weinstein neutral.
 
[quote name='dallow']Why do you expect Weinstein to go neutral?
They already have.

They announced titles on BD for Europe.[/QUOTE]

Europe is America? As of right now, in the USA, no Weinstein is on Blu-ray.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Europe is America? As of right now, in the USA, no Weinstein is on Blu-ray.[/quote]This doesn't make sense.
They release titles on both formats = neutral.
 
[quote name='dallow']This doesn't make sense.
They release titles on both formats = neutral.[/QUOTE]

So where is Wolf Creek on Blu-ray? Pulse? Clerks II?
I don't see them at Best Buy, Circuit City, Fry's, Target, Blockbuster, Amazon, etc?

Oh, you mean in EUROPE which is not America? GOTCHA!

http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?ei...f+creek+blu+ray&d=IrqZuP4-PVNi&icp=1&.intl=us
I see a studio called 'Optimum' releasing a Weinstein movie in the UK.
 
They're not in Euro stores either, but they're coming.

Are you saying that certain regions are now either BD, HD DVD, or neutral?
These are international companies.
 
[quote name='dallow']They're not in Euro stores either, but they're coming.

Are you saying that certain regions are now either BD, HD DVD, or neutral?
These are international companies.[/QUOTE]

No, but I don't see Weinstein releasing titles in America as of today.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']No, but I don't see Weinstein releasing titles in America as of today.[/quote]Kayyyyyyyyyyyyyy...............
 
[quote name='dpatel']True. It's strange how the 'advantage' of the combo disc seems to be doing the exact opposite. I really think HD should start offering combo and non-combo discs to consumers. Although, with the small amount of sales, I could see why they aren't.[/QUOTE]

They do , Superman Returns , and I'm sure others , is available both ways .
Maybe it's a WB thing .
 
[quote name='dpatel']Smart move, in my opinion. While the whole 'combo' thing is supposed to be an advantage, adding an extra $5 to what already is an expensive price just seems too much.[/QUOTE]

I like the combo discs I can always bring new titles to someone else's house and watch the DVD side . Or use them in a portable player .

It's worth it to me , but I like to have a choice as well .
 
[quote name='dallow']Have you seen PS2 sales?

Sony and Nintendo are still the only two with an overall net profit.
Next fiscal quarter, I'll quote the numbers.[/QUOTE]

Maybe Sony should make a Blu-Ray add-on for the PS2 .
 
Today's facebook prefference poll:

4ueutt0.jpg



Figured you all might find that interesting.


Also, today on NPR they had a report on the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray format war.
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']Today's facebook prefference poll:

Figured you all might find that interesting.[/quote]

Eh, nonrepresentative and volunteer sample = ungeneralizable results. I hates me some voluntary web-based surveys (though they sure do make data gathering easy, the methodological problems they present are pretty substantial.

Also, today on NPR they had a report on the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray format war.
Click to expand...

Yeah, on this morning's "Morning Edition." I didn't hear it, but the description on the NPR website mentioned Paramount/DreamWorks getting $150 to make Blu-Ray exclusive releases. Oops.
 
Rumor has it that BD-J 1.1 has been delayed until next year.
What does this mean? Not good things.

Aside from the fact that new stand alones players will now not be able to handle the change (if all new ones after October 31st could), it also means that Disney movies may be postponed. I know Cars, Ratatotueouii and several others were relying on 1.1 for special features.

Denon, which announced the first 1.1 compliant player has been delayed until Q2 of 2008. Whats the good news for this $2,000 player? It will be a dual format player.

Denon delays Profile 1.1 Blu-ray player till 2008
Denon’s widely reported Profile 1.1 Blu-ray player is unlikely to launch (certainly in Europe) until Q2 2008. Consequently, it’s unlikely now to be the first profile 1.1 Blu-ray deck to market. So says Denon UK’s Roger Batchelor, who also confirms that the brand’s advanced AVP-A1HD and POA-A1HD pre-power combo have also been delayed. The POA-A1HD is a THX Ultra2 certified 10-channel power amplifier designed to match the AVP-A1HD THX Ultra2 A1HD pre amplifier. The pair was first unveiled at the Munich High-End show, back in May. The A1HD is DLNA (Digital network Living Alliance) compatible, able to access and stream media from PCs or DNLA devices on a home network. It’s also equipped with the latest Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio decoders.
Marketing manager for product planning and marketing, Jun Igarashi, says that the company intends to allow its customers to access to whatever media they have, wherever it is.
Click to expand...

The above story has been pulled at the moment. I can't get the link to work anymore.

This makes me think even more then WB will be going HD DVD exclusive as they have been waiting for 1.1 for over a year now and was promised it would be ready. I wonder if The Matrix and Batman will EVER arrive.

More rumors include a $399 Blu-ray player, a $249 HD DVD player packed with Transformers in the box.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Damn! The current Amazon sale boasted HD DVD and Blu-Rays numbers up!
http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/

At the current moment, Blu-ray is at 71 and HD DVD at 76. Catalog titles are selling like crazy![/QUOTE]

Strange to see that blu-ray had a jump today. I understand HD-DVDs jump, seeing as how Heroes comes out tomorrow.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Strange to see that blu-ray had a jump today. I understand HD-DVDs jump, seeing as how Heroes comes out tomorrow.[/quote]
3-for-2 will make anybody buy, no matter which side they're on.
 
[quote name='geko29']3-for-2 will make anybody buy, no matter which side they're on.[/QUOTE]

ah crap, I must've missed this deal.

*runs to bd/hd deals forum*
 
[quote name='dpatel']ah crap, I must've missed this deal.

*runs to bd/hd deals forum*[/QUOTE]

Dude, where have you been?!? :lol:

Both formats jumped like 150 in the rankings.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Dude, where have you been?!? :lol:

Both formats jumped like 150 in the rankings.[/QUOTE]


I can't believe I almost missed this! Argghh! The one day I don't check the deals forum.
 
Anyone seen Curse of the Golden Flower? Haven't seen it, but I loved Hero. I hear Curse of the Golden Flower doesn't have as much stylized fighting though, which is what made Hero so great. Still, these movies are always beautiful, and something my BD player really needs.

Edit: went ahead and ordered. The other movies I was thinking of (Terminator 2/Reservoir Dogs) didn't really have great transfers. Pretty good deal. Got 300 + TMNT + Curse of the Golden Flower for about $45.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Did you go back to being neutral again?[/QUOTE]


Looks like it.... that Amazon deal is too good. I just got the HD-A2 with 4 movies for $238.88 shipped plus the five free that come with the mail-in. Then another 14 HD DVDs on top of that for around $200.
 
[quote name='Chris in Cali']Looks like it.... that Amazon deal is too good. I just got the HD-A2 with 4 movies for $238.88 shipped plus the five free that come with the mail-in. Then another 14 HD DVDs on top of that for around $200.[/QUOTE]

Damn, I didn't know they were giving away 4 free movies.
 
[quote name='Chris in Cali']Looks like it.... that Amazon deal is too good. I just got the HD-A2 with 4 movies for $238.88 shipped plus the five free that come with the mail-in. Then another 14 HD DVDs on top of that for around $200.[/quote]

May I ask which 4 free movies?
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']May I ask which 4 free movies?[/QUOTE]


Hot Fuzz, 300, TMNT, and The Departed. I also purchased another six Blu-ray movies as well.... I'm going to have to starve all next month :|
 
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