- LOCK - Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - LOCK -

Status
Not open for further replies.
[quote name='GizmoGC']For some laughs, check out the Blu-ray.com forum.

The "Blu-Bloods" as they like to call themselves are going NUTS. The $99 player posts are getting delete so damn fast.[/QUOTE]

How "sad" (I can use sad here because it refers to something negative about BD, correct)?
 
[quote name='dpatel']How "sad" (I can use sad here because it refers to something negative about BD, correct)?[/QUOTE]

Yes. I'll allow it.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Yes. I'll allow it.[/QUOTE]

Okay.. I think I'm starting to understand. Next I should bring up attach rates and Transformers, right?
 
[quote name='dpatel']Okay.. I think I'm starting to understand. Next I should bring up attach rates and Transformers, right?[/QUOTE]

Right. That Transformers is in the collection of many, many people.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Right. That Transformers is in the collection of many, many people.[/QUOTE]


How many people? I guess that answer still remains a mystery. :lol:
 
Well, I've pretty much decided to buy the HD-A2 for my parents (Christmas gift) and the 40GB PS3 for myself.

It's going to be an expensive Friday.
 
While the price is nice, there just are not that many HD DVD's coming out soon that I would buy. Blu ray has a much better line up (mainly disney) imo. I'm glad I sold my A2 and movies while I could still get something for them.
 
Just curious, anyone know what the manufacturing costs are for both BD/HD players? I figured BD players would be more expensive to produce than HD, but I can't really see them being more than double the price.

This move will definitely help HD-DVD a lot, but with the lead that BD has, I'm wondering if it will be enough. Once players start hitting the $99 range, there really isn't THAT much room for them to drop even further, whereas Blu-ray seems to be, so far, comfortably sitting at about $400-$500 with plenty of room to drop in price, if need be. All I know is, I look forward to the two formats battling it out and giving us great deals.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']While the price is nice, there just are not that many HD DVD's coming out soon that I would buy. Blu ray has a much better line up (mainly disney) imo. I'm glad I sold my A2 and movies while I could still get something for them.[/QUOTE]

Disney has something like 7 movies coming out from now till Dec 31st. What movies would that be?
 
[quote name='dpatel']Just curious, anyone know what the manufacturing costs are for both BD/HD players? I figured BD players would be more expensive to produce than HD, but I can't really see them being more than double the price.

This move will definitely help HD-DVD a lot, but with the lead that BD has, I'm wondering if it will be enough. Once players start hitting the $99 range, there really isn't THAT much room for them to drop even further, whereas Blu-ray seems to be, so far, comfortably sitting at about $400-$500 with plenty of room to drop in price, if need be. All I know is, I look forward to the two formats battling it out and giving us great deals.[/QUOTE]

IIRC, Blu-ray does cost a bit more, but I don't think the prices are known. HD DVD also incorporates the ethernet jack which most of the Blu-ray players do not, as well as a few other things to allow it to save information to it (Transformers etc.)

Here's the problem for the current slew of Blu-ray CEs. Whats going to happen when the $399 PS3 comes out? Will it force all the other CEs to lower prices? How low can they go? With the A2 being $200 now, will we see the Sony BDP-300 for $400? $350? $300? Will Samsung lower its prices on the 1200/1400 to that range (they just lowered the 1400 to $499). What about Panasonic, Pioneer, Sharp? We have already seen LG go from BD only to Combo, and Samsung from BD only to BD/Combo...will other CEs follow suit?

I can't imagine these BR only CE's are very happy with the constant price drops. They are pretty much forced to lower just to match Sony's various prices and hope to get sold.

What I want to know is how the hell Venturer is going to sell their player for $199. Who the hell would buy that with they could get a Toshiba?
 
[quote name='dpatel']Just curious, anyone know what the manufacturing costs are for both BD/HD players? I figured BD players would be more expensive to produce than HD, but I can't really see them being more than double the price.

[/QUOTE]

The Sony player is around $380 with BB employee discount at 5% over cost. The only one that gets no discount is the Samsung Blu ray. Not sure about manufacturing costs though.

[quote name='GizmoGC']Disney has something like 7 movies coming out from now till Dec 31st. What movies would that be?[/QUOTE]

All of them except High School Musical. You make it sound like 7 is a small amount. Paramount only has 5, and none of them are titles I would purchase (Star Trek :puke: ).
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']IIRC, Blu-ray does cost a bit more, but I don't think the prices are known. HD DVD also incorporates the ethernet jack which most of the Blu-ray players do not, as well as a few other things to allow it to save information to it (Transformers etc.)[/quote]

I figured, but I just don't think the difference in manufacturing costs is as great as the difference in retail prices make it out to be. If we look at retail prices, it would seem like BD costs about twice as much, to make, than HD players. I have no idea what the actual numbers are like, but I find that hard to believe.

Here's the problem for the current slew of Blu-ray CEs. Whats going to happen when the $399 PS3 comes out? Will it force all the other CEs to lower prices? How low can they go? With the A2 being $200 now, will we see the Sony BDP-300 for $400? $350? $300? Will Samsung lower its prices on the 1200/1400 to that range (they just lowered the 1400 to $499). What about Panasonic, Pioneer, Sharp? We have already seen LG go from BD only to Combo, and Samsung from BD only to BD/Combo...will other CEs follow suit?
Click to expand...

I don't see why this would be a problem. BD players have not had nearly as much pressure to drop in price compared to HD players. One of HD's main advantages is price, and their aggressive pricing has shown this. BD, while also dropping significantly in price, doesn't seem to have had as much pressure to drop in price. And, unless BD players ARE actually twice as much to make when compared to HD players, I don't see it being as much of a problem for BD players to lower to the $400 mark (and below). But, again, that depends on how much BD players actually cost to make, when compared to HD players.

I can't imagine these BR only CE's are very happy with the constant price drops. They are pretty much forced to lower just to match Sony's various prices and hope to get sold.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']The Sony player is around $380 with BB employee discount at 5% over cost. The only one that gets no discount is the Samsung Blu ray. Not sure about manufacturing costs though.



All of them except High School Musical. You make it sound like 7 is a small amount. Paramount only has 5, and none of them are titles I would purchase (Star Trek :puke: ).[/QUOTE]

...So you're actually going to buy Underdog & The Santa Clause 3?

All thats left is Cars, Ratatatatlio, Pixard Shorts, POTC3, and Lost Season 3.

I'm in for the last 2.
 
[quote name='dpatel']I figured, but I just don't think the difference in manufacturing costs is as great as the difference in retail prices make it out to be. If we look at retail prices, it would seem like BD costs about twice as much, to make, than HD players. I have no idea what the actual numbers are like, but I find that hard to believe.



I don't see why this would be a problem. BD players have not had nearly as much pressure to drop in price compared to HD players. One of HD's main advantages is price, and their aggressive pricing has shown this. BD, while also dropping significantly in price, doesn't seem to have had as much pressure to drop in price. And, unless BD players ARE actually twice as much to make when compared to HD players, I don't see it being as much of a problem for BD players to lower to the $400 mark (and below). But, again, that depends on how much BD players actually cost to make, when compared to HD players.

I can't imagine these BR only CE's are very happy with the constant price drops. They are pretty much forced to lower just to match Sony's various prices and hope to get sold.[/QUOTE]

The A1 launched at $500 and Toshiba was loosing money with that. Samsung launched at $1,000 and I *think* they were just breaking even. That was over a year ago, so I'm sure prices have changed, especially for Blu-ray with the PS3 in production and buying the components in bigger quantitys.

Since the A2 Toshiba has been making profit on each HD DVD player, I don't know if that holds true for any of the other Blu-ray players.
 
How does Samsung manage to just break even at $1000 when the PS3 was able to sell at $600 while offering quite a bit more. Is there some reason why standalone seem to be just as much, if not more than the PS3?
 
I don't think it was losing $400. And, even if it was, it offered a next-gen gaming system for the same manufacturing costs (assuming the PS3 was $1000 to manufacture, although I think estimates were around $150 something).
 
[quote name='dpatel']How does Samsung manage to just break even at $1000 when the PS3 was able to sell at $600 while offering quite a bit more. Is there some reason why standalone seem to be just as much, if not more than the PS3?[/QUOTE]

Thats why I said "I think". Maybe Sony purchased the components in bigger bulk (they did make what, 1 million PS3s in 06?), while Samsung only made 20-30k (if even that?) model 1000 units? Sony was taking a hit selling the PS3 at $600 (and $500). Maybe Samsung did make a killing on the $1,000 unit since it was first to the market by 3-4 months?

I really don't know if anyone can answer these questions as the prices to make each player is simply a guess by most people.

At this point in the game, I can't imagine many of these Blu-ray CEs are making much money off the players. It seems the only reason why they drop prices is to compete with the PS3.

What strikes me as odd is that instead of announcing cheaper Blu-ray players, some CEs are making "high end" players (Sony, Denon, Pioneer, Samsung). These are going to be $800-$2,000 (Denon) and would appeal to the Highend HT owners. Must be money in that then?
 
[quote name='dpatel']I don't think it was losing $400. And, even if it was, it offered a next-gen gaming system for the same manufacturing costs (assuming the PS3 was $1000 to manufacture, although I think estimates were around $150 something).[/QUOTE]
I guess the price difference is that Samsung is looking to profit off the hardware since they aren't producing any movies.
 
[quote name='zewone']I guess the price difference is that Samsung is looking to profit off the hardware since they aren't producing any movies.[/QUOTE]

Very true. I wonder if the CEs get any kick backs at all? Maybe just Panasonic as they hold a pretty big stake in BR?
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']What strikes me as odd is that instead of announcing cheaper Blu-ray players, some CEs are making "high end" players (Sony, Denon, Pioneer, Samsung). These are going to be $800-$2,000 (Denon) and would appeal to the Highend HT owners. Must be money in that then?[/QUOTE]

I guess the PS3 is just too good of a deal for them to compete with, and is, so far, doing a fine job in pushing the BD format. It's hard for a standalone to compete with the PS3, without undercutting it by a few hundred dollars. And, with the rate at which PS3s are being sold, other CEs really aren't feeling pressured to help sell hardware for BD, seeing as how BD has plenty of hardware out there.
 
[quote name='dpatel']I guess the PS3 is just too good of a deal for them to compete with, and is, so far, doing a fine job in pushing the BD format. It's hard for a standalone to compete with the PS3, without undercutting it by a few hundred dollars. And, with the rate at which PS3s are being sold, other CEs really aren't feeling pressured to help sell hardware for BD, seeing as how BD has plenty of hardware out there.[/quote]
Dpatel, from what I remember the 60 gb PS3 was sold at a loss of 262 dollars at launch, and the 20gv was sold at a loss of 300. These are approxomate numbers that a site got from how much the components of the ps3 typically cost, but they make sense. However, that number has gone down DRASTICALLY as the blu-ray diodes are now 1/8 the price.

And I am still trying to figure out how it's sad for Blu-ray to offer a deal to gain sales, but it's not sad for HD-DVD to do the same thing.......? I guess it's ok when the losing side does it because they need all the help they can get.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Ah ok, thanks. If that's the case, I imagine the standalone players were selling for a pretty nice profit.[/quote]
Not necessarily, I mean Sony owns the blu-ray diode plants, the blu-ray drive technology, and baught them in much bigger bulk. However, they probably would still be sold for some profit.

And I am sure CE companies get something for making Blu-ray, or else they wouldn't make stand alones in the first place.

And even if HD-DVD sells 60,000 players, they would still be lagging behind PS3 and blu-ray player sales by a large margin. :)
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']IIRC, Blu-ray does cost a bit more, but I don't think the prices are known. HD DVD also incorporates the ethernet jack which most of the Blu-ray players do not, as well as a few other things to allow it to save information to it (Transformers etc.)

Here's the problem for the current slew of Blu-ray CEs. Whats going to happen when the $399 PS3 comes out? Will it force all the other CEs to lower prices? How low can they go? With the A2 being $200 now, will we see the Sony BDP-300 for $400? $350? $300? Will Samsung lower its prices on the 1200/1400 to that range (they just lowered the 1400 to $499). What about Panasonic, Pioneer, Sharp? We have already seen LG go from BD only to Combo, and Samsung from BD only to BD/Combo...will other CEs follow suit?

I can't imagine these BR only CE's are very happy with the constant price drops. They are pretty much forced to lower just to match Sony's various prices and hope to get sold.

What I want to know is how the hell Venturer is going to sell their player for $199. Who the hell would buy that with they could get a Toshiba?[/QUOTE]

Really with the prices of HD-dvd going down this fast how long before we see even more combo players ? Once more and more combo players come out people are going to stop being afriad of getting HD movies.

And when that happens both formats are here to stay.
 
[quote name='KingDox']Really with the prices of HD-dvd going down this fast how long before we see even more combo players ? Once more and more combo players come out people are going to stop being afriad of getting HD movies.

And when that happens both formats are here to stay.[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily. HD DVD is fighting for survival, but when the only format-neutral studio is hinting around that they're not looking to remain that way past the holidays, as Warner did this week...well, I don't think it bodes well for there being two formats. Then again, perhaps it depends on whether or not Warner goes HD or Blu. HD DVD couldn't possibly survive with just Paramount and Universal, no matter their catalogs.

Hmm. Looks like Gizmo was whipping up completely baseless and fabricated facts while I slept. Interesting. I didn't know it was Sony's fault that 3rd party BR manufacturers were being outpriced. I could have sworn that there's another, smaller, weaker, inferior format out there that's having a fire-sale on their older technology...the kind of fire sale that was making HD DVD kids swoon like Scarlett O'Hara in the arms of Rhett Butler. But, hey...I suppose Abu Ghraib was somehow Sony's fault too. I guess I need to think about that more.
 
How is it older technology? There is not a single feature in the HD-A3 that is not also in the HD-A2. The ONLY third-gen player that has any new features is the A35, which supports HBR audio bitstreaming. But then again, that won't be new for long, as the XA2 is getting it in a firmware update next week......
 
[quote name='geko29']How is it older technology? There is not a single feature in the HD-A3 that is not also in the HD-A2. The ONLY third-gen player that has any new features is the A35, which supports HBR audio bitstreaming. But then again, that won't be new for long, as the XA2 is getting it in a firmware update next week......[/QUOTE]

So what separates the A2 and A3? There has to be something.
 
The A3 is less expensinve to manufacture (everything is done in the SOC, instead of PiP and HDi being handled in a Celeron 900), and boots a tiny bit faster. There's also very minor audio differences--the A2 downmixes DD+ and TrueHD to 1.5Mbps DTS, while the A3 mixes to 640Kbps DD.

Otherwise they're pretty much identical.
 
Thought you had an HDMI receiver dallow? Audio only has to be downmixed for the optical out. HDMI is unaffected, and is transmitted as 24/96 Multichannel LPCM.
 
[quote name='geko29']Thought you had an HDMI receiver dallow? Audio only has to be downmixed for the optical out. HDMI is unaffected, and is transmitted as 48/96 Multichannel LPCM.[/quote]I meant a better player in general.
I'm sure most use optical.

And guyver, when stuff is cheap, things look better.
That's why I have some useless electronics now, just because they were so cheap.

The only downside to the A2 I see then is no 1080p/24 output.
 
yea the lack of 1080p output bothers me as well.. most people say you can not tell the difference anyways..

If i can get one it would be worth it alone just so i can compare quality..
 
[quote name='guyver2077']yea the lack of 1080p output bothers me as well.. most people say you can not tell the difference anyways..

If i can get one it would be worth it alone just so i can compare quality..[/quote]Not just 1080p, but 24fps support as well.
My new tv supports it now.
 
yeah, 1080p/60 is a marketing gimmick in most cases. 1080p/24 is most definitely not. If I had a set that supported 72Hz or 120Hz display, I'd definitely want a 24p player.

Actually, I wouldn't care because the Reon in my receiver could make 24p output, but you get my point. :)
 
Yeah, I'm surprised at how much better it does look. So smooth.

And that 120Hz does wonders for sports, damn.
Got to see my Mavs last night take care of business.
 
There are a lot of people with HD TV's that are below 50 inches. especially after last years black friday deals.37 and 42 inch tv's flew off the shelfs at bestbuy and other stores. tv's below 50 inches don't have the resolution to really make 1080p matter. it also depends on how close you are to the tv and it's contrast ratio. I have the xbox 360 hd player with a xbox360 connected with HDMI and it looks spectacular. the images seem to come off the screen on my 42 inch 720p panasonic plasma. so If you have a huge tv and sit far from it you wont see the fine detail as well. so what's the point of 1080p?!?!
 
[quote name='alpha_M']There are a lot of people with HD TV's that are below 50 inches. especially after last years black friday deals.37 and 42 inch tv's flew off the shelfs at bestbuy and other stores. tv's below 50 inches don't have the resolution to really make 1080p matter. it also depends on how close you are to the tv and it's contrast ratio. I have the xbox 360 hd player with a xbox360 connected with HDMI and it looks spectacular. the images seem to come off the screen on my 42 inch 720p panasonic plasma. so If you have a huge tv and sit far from it you wont see the fine detail as well. so what's the point of 1080p?!?![/quote]My TV is 55".
That's the point.
 
[quote name='geko29']yeah, 1080p/60 is a marketing gimmick in most cases. 1080p/24 is most definitely not. If I had a set that supported 72Hz or 120Hz display, I'd definitely want a 24p player.

Actually, I wouldn't care because the Reon in my receiver could make 24p output, but you get my point. :)[/QUOTE]

Geko/Dallow

how do you get TV specs on the refresh rate? The manufacturer website? At C and BB they didnt list them in the specs tab....

So the A2 doesnt do that fast of refresh? Help me out here.
 
[quote name='Snake2715']Geko/Dallow

how do you get TV specs on the refresh rate? The manufacturer website? At C and BB they didnt list them in the specs tab....

So the A2 doesnt do that fast of refresh? Help me out here.[/quote]Yes, just look up the tech specs on the product site.

Only the newest (few months I believe) have 120Hz refresh rates.
There are many* that do 72 so you can get 24fps when watching films.

The A2 simply doesn't output at 1080p/24.
Geko has a high end receiver. Pretty high end anyway, so his could probably do it for him regardless of the player.
 
Oh 1080p/24 yeah that wont be a problem i am looking in the 32-37" range. so I don't necessarily need anything above 720.

Thanks for the answer.

I keep jumping back and forth to AVS etc trying to research and then another point comes up.. This is why I have yet to jump HD.
 
[quote name='Snake2715']Oh 1080p/24 yeah that wont be a problem i am looking in the 32-37" range. so I don't necessarily need anything above 720.[/QUOTE]

Walmart will have the 50" Sanyo Plasma for $999 tomorrow morning, as part of their secret sale. It's 720p.
 
[quote name='dallow']Yeah, I'm surprised at how much better it does look. So smooth.

And that 120Hz does wonders for sports, damn.
Got to see my Mavs last night take care of business.[/QUOTE]


What set did you pick up? I picked up the Samsung LN-T4671 and it is awesome.

120hz/24p :drool: .
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']What set did you pick up? I picked up the Samsung LN-T4671 and it is awesome.

120hz/24p :drool: .[/quote]Sony 55A3000 SXRD.
I see you're a Sammy boy... tsk tsk tsk. ;)
that's a realllllly nice set you have though, nice
 
Some good news from Warner for the Red team:
According to this "source" Warner's stance on High Def will be decided with Walmart's sales...
A Warner source said the studio is watching what happens now that Wal-Mart and other big retailers are selling entry-level Toshiba HD DVD players for less than $200, about half what the cheapest Blu-ray player costs. If there is a significant spike in HD DVD software sales, the studio may cast its lot with that format, whereas if there is no real impact, Warner may go Blu-ray only.
Click to expand...
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/film/news/e3ic868cb7073298c93e702dbdc92804c43
 
Here's to Joe Six Pack picking up the A2 and then buying $5 DVDs to watch them in HD.

If all BD has to do is win in software.
Mission freaking accomplished.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
bread's done
Back
Top