Mass Effect 2 Discussion - Fight for the Lost

To tell you the truth I like the morality system in the Mass Effect games. In others, say Bioshock & Fable games, you're extremely good or benevolent or extremely evil or just a plain pyscho.
In the Mass Effect Universe:
Paragon is being a good human being who cares about the welfare of others and one who can talk their way out of a conflict (unless the opposing person is a boss lol).

Renegade throws everything to the curb to get the job done, screw it if I offend you there's bigger stacks here than pansy politics. :)

Really the morality system is more mature than you'd find in other RPGs but I hear The Witcher 2 has a good morality system as well.

I also recommend having one playthrough where you just go the neutral choice every time, (I call it the quick X playthrough) so you're half and half with Paragon and Renegade. This plays vastly different because you don't have the required points sometimes to do the needed actions and the outcome is vastly different than if you went 100% one way or the other.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='The Crotch']In conclusion, binary morality systems can blow me. Knights of the Old Republic barely got a pass on this, but that's only because the whole "binary morality system" thing is a key component of the setting. It's god damn inexcusable now.[/QUOTE]Then why are you playing games that have such a system that you have issues with? :whistle2:s
 
95% of the game is awesome as all motherfuck. I've played and enjoyed a lot of games that I could say worse things about than that.

It's like the uncanny valley. The sheer awesomeness of Mass Effect makes the awfulness of the binary morality system (nobody has or ever will use the words "binary morality system" more than me) shine through like some sort of shit-star in an otherwise beautiful night sky.
[quote name='Spybreak8']Paragon is being a good human being who cares about the welfare of others and one who can talk their way out of a conflict (unless the opposing person is a boss lol).

Renegade throws everything to the curb to get the job done, screw it if I offend you there's bigger stacks here than pansy politics. :)[/QUOTE]
Except when it says, no, fuck it, being a renegade actually means
Killing one of my most powerful allies so I can get her serial killer daughter on my side. It means destroying potential allies (the heretics) instead of reprogramming them to help me in the upcoming war.
And renegades are every bit as good at talking their way out of conflicts anyway; while going renegade generally results in killing more shit, 90% of the choices are "argue in a kind of a nice guy way" or "argue angrily"; the end result is always the god damn same.

Those are not examples of getting the job done at any costs. Those are examples of, "Well, this stuff isn't exactly paragon, so... fuck it, +20 renegade points for each of 'em!"

And more to the point: why is there a morality system at all? Sure it's better than, say, Fable's system, but the main point I'm trying to get across here is that all these systems are stupid (minor exceptions to Knights of the Old Republic and Planescape Torment, where again, the morality systems are actual rules of the universe) and arbitrary as all hell. They add nothing to the game. They're there because, hey, morality systems are popular right now, aren't they? Sure, throw one in here!

A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
 
I mostly agree that the morality systems are dumb. The notion of choice is kind of neat, but as you note most of them are superficial choices. And even for big decisions, thus far they've not had much of an impact on the series. Though maybe that will change.

Honestly I don't much like the open ended nature of WRPGs in general as the stories tend to be weaker due to all the options they have to account for. ME1 had a pretty solid story, but ME2 really didn't IMO--but I didn't mind since the gameplay was better.

I think games linear stories, single endings etc. can tell a more compelling story as there more on part with movies or books in that they're designed to a single story, and not as "choose your own adventure" books.

I really wish some western developers would make some RPGs that played like (in terms of combat etc.) Mass Effect or Oblivion or Fallout, but told a single linear story. I can't stand JRPGs as I hate the battle systems and the lame anime inspired stories etc. WRPGs I enjoy the the gamplay a lot, but the stories are usually lacking, with ME1 being the one exception for me thus far.
 
Oh, Maul. Giving me an opening to faff on about storytelling, and it's not even my birthday.

Ahem.

There are two big problems with trying to offer significant choice in a game. The first is that it makes things more complicated for the developer. The second is that we are all a bunch of whiny fuckwits who don't know what we want.

The first one is pretty obvious. Confusing, branching dialogue trees at the very best. A buggy fucking mess because it's nigh impossible to test all possible permutations at worst. The sheer difficulty often results in the weak storytelling Maul complained about above. Elder Scrolls games give you choice, choice, choice until you're drowning underneath all the god damn choice, and it's beautiful how much CHOICE! there is, but there's so much CHOICE! it's impossible to reconcile all the possible CHOICE! and tell a half-way functional story (which, in turn, renders a lot of that choice meaningless).

"Morality systems" are there to reign in a lot of the problems on the developer's side; make them more manageable (they're also a vestigial remain of the genre's D&D roots, but that's neither here nor there).

Example: Bastilla Shan of Knights of the Old Republic does not remember you giving 100 credits and a med-kit to that one alien back on the first planet. She does not remember you helping the wookiees fight of the slavers on their home planet. She does not remember how you chose to destroy the machinery driving the giant shark thing insane rather than simply poisoning it (and you were a fucking saint for doing that, because that section fucking sucked). Why? Because making her remember all that shit means more work for the developers, and more room for bugs to slip in. So instead she remembers that your light/dark meter is 2/3 of the way to the top, so she gives you the "Good job! You're not a monster!" speech when cued to.

Goal: Reinforce to the player that their choices matter.
Problem: fucking hard to remember every god damn choice they made.
Solution: Assign a positive or negative value to every choice, and simply look at the total in the end.

The morality system saves the day!

But do we really need that anymore? Bioware was nothing but a bunch of hairy guys in fur loincloths banging sticks together when they made Baldur's Gate compared to what they are today, and even that game provided a greater range of options than what we're getting from them now.

It's getting increasingly hard to type this without looking like some sort of, "The sky is falling! Bioware has abandoned their fans! Gears of Mass Effect: Origins 3!" knob. fuck.

What I'm trying to get at here is that this particular problem can either be solved patchwork style by bringing in a morality system, or it can be done over right with money and man-hours. Given how much of both of those things Bioware has, and how much more efficient it's gotten since the old days (Seriously. fucking. Cave. Men.), there's really no need to go with the other option. Well, okay, getting the game out faster. But hey, I'm still waiting for the next couple hours of gameplay in the Half-Life series, Bioware. I can wait a few years for the next Dragon Age. Don't worry. I ain't going anywhere.

Now, that's only one of the two big problems with choice. The much harder one, "The players all a bunch of dumb cunts."? I don't particularly feel like tangling with that one right now. This is about the upper size limit for a respectable post, I figure. If nobody complains overmuch, I'll put the rest up later for y'all to tl;dr.
 
Loyalty mission question:

So, I got to the point where Miranda and Jacob have asked me to do two seperate things at the same time. Am I only allowed to say yes to 1 of them? I already told Miranda yes, then I got the message that Jacob needed something also. If I say yes to Jacob does it cancel out the Miranda loyalty mission? Or does can I do both?
 
I bought it used so I don't have cerberus network.
I decided I am going to get one (Not the shadow broker either because it is $10)
Can I get some recommendations?
 
If not the Shadow Broker then you should get Kasumi because of the kickass gun and story. Shadow Broker is one of the best DLCs ever made, though.
 
I played them when they were all 50% off, and I thought Overlord was the best one. It had all the basic Mass Effect elements and did them well.
 
Shadow Broker is by far the best. I'd rank them:

Shadow Broker
Overlord
Kasumi
Firewalker

The ones that were Day 1 cerberus network (Zaeed and the Normandy Crash Site) I don't think I'd buy on their own if they're even sold individually. Especially crash site as it's just short and nothing more than wandering around collecting dog tags etc.
 
Finished my first playthrough - amazing how once you get to the Reaper IFF mission you can't stop playing. A few comments to those that have finished:

Major spoiler if you haven't finished:
Did anyone not actually blow up the collector base at the end? I have fantasies about reuniting with the Alliance in ME3 and figure staying aligned with Cerberus is probably not the best way to do that.

Playing one time through makes me realize the decisions I wish I would have made in ME1. Gives me a good excuse to do another playthrough of that one to rollover into the insanity ME2 playthough.

One last comment regarding the Arrival DLC:
Why weren't we given an option to save the Batarian base? Here I am thinking I'll be reunited with the Alliance in ME3 and then Hackett comes to tell me how bad I fucked up - AND now I'm going to have to stand trial for it? However, no way that choice can be a part of the main game in ME3, considering that it wasn't a choice at all. I'm guessing it'll be back story for ME3 to set it up for the people that didn't play the DLC.

First playthrough was as a Vanguard, but I'll be changing classes for the 2nd playthrough. Heavy charge is a ton of fun, but no way I could survive on insanity doing that.

I think I liked ME1 better than this one (probably due to the initial wow factor), but this series is slowly taking over my life. I've got the books and am actually comtemplating buying the action figures to collect - and I don't even collect action figures!
 
[quote name='serenitygod']I bought it used so I don't have cerberus network.
I decided I am going to get one (Not the shadow broker either because it is $10)
Can I get some recommendations?[/QUOTE]Don't let money become an issue with these DLC options -- buy them all.

:cool:
 
[quote name='xtreme_Zr2']Major spoiler if you haven't finished:
Did anyone not actually blow up the collector base at the end? I have fantasies about reuniting with the Alliance in ME3 and figure staying aligned with Cerberus is probably not the best way to do that.
[/QUOTE]
Of course.
You can never throw away an opportunity to study your enemy. Though it may be shoehorned that way, nobody said that the base had to stay in Cerberus hands.

fuck, I don't even know if we ever gave Cerberus the IFF. As far as I know, the Normandy is the only ship even capable of reaching the damn thing.

I highly doubt that's how Bioware'll let it play out, though.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Of course.
You can never throw away an opportunity to study your enemy.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, nevermind that
every previous attempt to study Reaper technology has resulted in indoctrination and mass death. This time it will be different! :lol:
 
[quote name='Gentlegamer']Has there been any rumor of a GOTY edition that includes all the DLC on disc?[/QUOTE]

Yeah it is called the PS3 version.
 
[quote name='timesplitt']yeaaaaa, i can join the club of insanity beaters


gain: achievement
lose : $40 dollar controller

yeaaaaaaa[/QUOTE]

Dude.....I HAVE to get on with it and beat the game, so I can join that club, ha! Congrats, man.
 
[quote name='chubbyninja1319']Dude.....I HAVE to get on with it and beat the game, so I can join that club, ha! Congrats, man.[/QUOTE]Same here.
 
I had like 5 character loyalty missions to do but i said screw it and went for the finish. i was really nervous while getting to the end because I would always check my options to make sure it said insanity and i kept think i might have changed it by accident but luckily i didn't.

the IFF mission was crazy at the end; i ran around in circles using fire to kill them husks (guns to slow)

the last mission
having to face the husks and the shockwavers was pretty hard in that tight space(biotic barrier) I'd get trapped by three of them and then get shockwaved. luckily i had cloak. funny watching them pound me and then be like where'd he go.. the giant robot at the end was surprisingly not hard, the only hard part was aiming at his constantly moving eyes. and my teammates did a well god at attacking the collectors
 
A little OT, but insanity feels like a grindfest in ME2. I hope it's a little more visceral in ME3 given they're trying to push combat that way.
 
Okay I have a question
on my last playthrough I tried to do the right thing to set me up for ME3 but is there anyway I can get Tali's loyalty and still have admiral bootootootoo or whatever his name is not mad at me? I paragoned the admirals and then went and told the war monger that we had evidence on the ship... but then he still sent me an email talking trash.... I don't get it
 
so I've been playing through ME1 (never played either games)

Starting to get pretty good but it just keeps sticking in the back of my mind how I wish I was playing Kotor. I even play kinda like I'm a jedi. I've been told by a friend that I should power through ME1 to get to ME2 and then really enjoy myself. Hoping to finish ME1 pretty soon.
 
ATTENTION

To all of the Mass Effect 2 owners out there who may not have any/all of the DLC for this game (either because you're broke, missed out on a deal, etc.), I just wanted to let you know that Xbox.com currently has a poll on the My Xbox page (after linking your account) at the bottom of the page regarding the Member's Choice Deal of the Week. Basically, users get to vote on what they want to become a Deal of the Week in July.

Mass Effect 2 (Select Game Add-Ons) is currently one of these options on the poll, so I want everyone who reads this to go vote now!!!
 
[quote name='chubbyninja1319']ME1 is a beautiful game that should absolutely not be blown through. Sit down and enjoy it and play every last bit.[/QUOTE]

Eh, I'd skip most if not all of the minor side missions (i.e. the ones that start with "UNC:"). They're horribly repetitive and you don't get much out of them. Though the one on Luna may be worth doing, for kicks.
 
[quote name='shrike4242']Vote added, X.

ME2 add-ons is leading with 31.3% of the voting at the time of this post.[/QUOTE]Good man.

I think I've had 10 people vote on it so far :lol: :cool:

Also...

[quote name='chubbyninja1319']Dude.....I HAVE to get on with it and beat the game, so I can join that club, ha! Congrats, man.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='shrike4242']Same here.[/QUOTE]Let me know if either of you guys (or anyone, for that matter) need help with Insanity.
 
I kept a save near the end to go back and do more side missions. When it got going I didn't want to stop with the main plotline (which I finished tonight). Time to move to ME2 but I know I'll be putting a lot more play time in on ME1 still.

I voted on the dotw already for me2, I bought some dlc back when it was on sale but I could do some more if other dlc goes on sale that I haven't bought yet.
 
[quote name='Tha Xecutioner']ATTENTION

To all of the Mass Effect 2 owners out there who may not have any/all of the DLC for this game (either because you're broke, missed out on a deal, etc.), I just wanted to let you know that Xbox.com currently has a poll on the My Xbox page (after linking your account) at the bottom of the page regarding the Member's Choice Deal of the Week. Basically, users get to vote on what they want to become a Deal of the Week in July.

Mass Effect 2 (Select Game Add-Ons) is currently one of these options on the poll, so I want everyone who reads this to go vote now!!![/QUOTE]
Great! I've been needing the DLC for awhile now, and when they were on sale awhile back, my internet was out. Hopefully it will be all of the DLC and not just some of it.
 
I think I've mined way too much.

I have like around 300k for all the minerals besides Element Zero, which I have around 38k.

Probably why I'm 34 hours in and still have 2 recruits to get (including Katsumi) and 4 (5 with Katsumi?) loyalty missions and all the DLC and side missions.
 
[quote name='A Happy Panda']I think I've mined way too much.

I have like around 300k for all the minerals besides Element Zero, which I have around 38k.[/QUOTE]
That's probably way more than you'll ever need. :lol: There's really no reason to mine unless you actively need it for something. In fact you might have shot yourself in the foot a little bit by mining so much because the credits that you spent on probes and fuel are a much more limited and valuable resource than any of the elements.
 
Yeah. I'm starting to cut back after realizing how few credits I had. There's a bunch of upgrades that I want on Illium that I couldn't get because I spent all the $ on fuel and probes.

But I have so many missions left that I think it'll work out to where I can buy everything I want.
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']That's probably way more than you'll ever need. :lol: There's really no reason to mine unless you actively need it for something. In fact you might have shot yourself in the foot a little bit by mining so much because the credits that you spent on probes and fuel are a much more limited and valuable resource than any of the elements.[/QUOTE]You will be using eezo if you respec your skills or your teammates' skills, so having excess eezo isn't a bad thing.

Rest of the minerals, that obviously depends on how many upgrades you have left to purchase.
 
FYI for those just coming to the thread, the Dark Horse comic that lets you make the critical decisions of ME 1 without playing ME 1 is available to 360 owners now, but you have to pay 320 Allards ($4) to get it.
 
[quote name='MSUHitman']FYI for those just coming to the thread, the Dark Horse comic that lets you make the critical decisions of ME 1 without playing ME 1 is available to 360 owners now, but you have to pay 320 Allards ($4) to get it.[/QUOTE]
Hmm, should ME2 win the vote, I wonder if Genesis would be included in the sale.
 
if me2 wins this me1 dlc should be lowered/free

i want to play the dlc to get to level 60 and to get all the achieves. i just want to save as much as i can

i see BDtS is 80 might get that now anyway
 
The Genesis graphic comic is actually very good. I got it and enjoyed it. However, I wonder if going through the comic will "count" as a playthrough of ME1 when you get to ME3 and there is an achievement for playing through the entire trilogy. Just a thought.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top