Mavs to the Finals: Congrats to the Heat

[quote name='bobo2k4']I say the MVP was either going to Nash or Billups this year but Billups kinda disappeared toward the end of the season.

Nash makes everyone around him better. Look at Boris Diaw he was a triple double machine this year and it was mostly thanks to Nash. Even without Amare the Suns are still top of their divison.[/quote]

how does Nash have anything to do with Diaw's triple doubles? yea, maybe the points, but not the rebounds or assists...
 
I really hope the NBA changes the way they seed teams heading into the playoffs next season. There's no reason a 60 win team like Dallas should be the fourth seed when Phoenix only has 54 wins and is the second seed.
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']Report: Nash to win second straight NBA MVP

Complete and utter bullshit.[/QUOTE]

QFT

Don't get me wrong, I think Nash is one of the best offensive PGs in the league. But Dirk is the only All Star on his team, and he led the Mavs to 60 wins team in probably the toughest division in the league (SA, Dallas, & Memphis finished in the top 4 in overall record in the WC). At least the sportswriters got the COY award right.

Also Dirk has stepped up his game in every playoffs he has been in except for last years, so don't give me any BS about him folding under pressure.
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']Report: Nash to win second straight NBA MVP

Complete and utter bullshit.[/QUOTE]
Bullshit? You expecting Phoenix to play this well Amare out for most of the year? Nash completely deserves the MVP more than anyone else. He was an early lock for it when the Suns had a great start with only two remaining great players.

[quote name='ksuwild25']QFT

Don't get me wrong, I think Nash is one of the best offensive PGs in the league. But Dirk is the only All Star on his team, and he led the Mavs to 60 wins team in probably the toughest division in the league (SA, Dallas, & Memphis finished in the top 4 in overall record in the WC). At least the sportswriters got the COY award right.

Also Dirk has stepped up his game in every playoffs he has been in except for last years, so don't give me any BS about him folding under pressure.[/QUOTE]
So Josh Howard, Darrell Armstrong, Jason Terry, and Erick Dampier had no bearing on the Mavs' success? Since when do the playoffs have any bearing on the MVP? It's a regular season award, so a player's performance in the playoffs aren't, and shouldn't, be factored into the decision.

[quote name='Grave_Addiction']I really hope the NBA changes the way they seed teams heading into the playoffs next season. There's no reason a 60 win team like Dallas should be the fourth seed when Phoenix only has 54 wins and is the second seed.[/QUOTE]
Sure, take away any advantage a team should get for winning their division.
 
[quote name='ksuwild25']QFT

Don't get me wrong, I think Nash is one of the best offensive PGs in the league. But Dirk is the only All Star on his team, and he led the Mavs to 60 wins team in probably the toughest division in the league (SA, Dallas, & Memphis finished in the top 4 in overall record in the WC). At least the sportswriters got the COY award right.

Also Dirk has stepped up his game in every playoffs he has been in except for last years, so don't give me any BS about him folding under pressure.[/quote]

Only all-star on his team? Well umm...I wouldn't call Eddie House, James Jones, and Boris Diaw stars. Shawn Marion has had his best statistical season, even with that ugly shot.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Sure, take away any advantage a team should get for winning their division.[/quote]
Yeah, the NBA should take it away, because it's a giving a false reading of that team's success. So a team should get rewarded more for winning a division rather than trying to have the most wins in their conference?

What's more telling of a team's success - winning their division or winning more games? It's simple, teams with the best records should get rewarded with a higher playoff seeding for winning more games.

The Denver Nuggets finished the season with a 44-38 record and the third seed in the playoffs. That's a .538 winning percentage, barely over .500. Do you honestly think it's reasonable that they are seeded higher than the Mavericks who have a .732 winning percentage? That's just plain stupid, and many journalists have predicted the NBA will look to change it this offseason.
 
And as soon as it gets changed, a team will barely win in a tough division, coming out with a lower record and getting a lower seed. Then the bitching will continue. Division winners get the highest seeds in every American sport, and I can't find a compelling argument to change it for the NBA.

I also find it funny that everyone seems to think the guy from "their team" should be MVP. Just look at locations and who the poster's arguing about being MVP.
 
[quote name='Genocidal']And as soon as it gets changed, a team will barely win in a tough division, coming out with a lower record and getting a lower seed. Then the bitching will continue. Division winners get the highest seeds in every American sport, and I can't find a compelling argument to change it for the NBA.

I also find it funny that everyone seems to think the guy from "their team" should be MVP. Just look at locations and who the poster's arguing about being MVP.[/quote]

- Dirk led the league with a 28.20 PER.
- He led his team to equal the franchise's best record ever.
- He hit last-second shot after last-second shot.
- There were many journalists predicting Dallas would barely make the playoffs, yet they were neck and neck with San Antonio (The reigning NBA champions) all season long. They finished with the third-best record in the NBA.
 
[quote name='Genocidal']I also find it funny that everyone seems to think the guy from "their team" should be MVP. Just look at locations and who the poster's arguing about being MVP.[/QUOTE]
Definitely, I usually check the person's location right after reading a biased ass post. So far everyone who thinks Dirk should be MVP has been from Dallas and while there are some people from Arizona promoting Nash all of the neutral people in the argument think Nash is the deserving MVP.

As a Golden State fan from the bay area I definitely think Nash is the MVP. Sure Dirk isn't playing with any all-stars but before the season if you ask any fan who they'd rather have as role players among Jerry Stackhouse, Marquis Daniels, Josh Howard, Keith Van Horn, Erick Dampier, and Devin Harris vs. Boris Diaw, James Jones, Eddie House, Kurt Thomas, Brian Grant, and Leandro Barbosa I bet 100% say the Mavs' group. Bottom line is Eddie House, Boris Diaw, James Jones, Shawn Marion, and Barbosa are all having career years with Nash and Diaw, Jones, and House wouldnt even be recognizable names to a casual NBA fan without Nash. No one predicted the Suns would be in the playoffs before the season knowing that Amare would be out half the year (turned out he was out the entire year) and that Joe Johnson and Q-Rich were gone but they still managed to not only make the playoffs but get the third best record in the west.
 
I agree 100% with the last post. And the argument about the Winning divisions I'm all for if you win you divison you should get the higher seed. LIke stated above, if you have a really tough division and you win it your record might not be as good as a team with a weak divsion. Does that mean the team with more wins should be ahead. You play more games in your division than any other. I see nothing wrong with the format now. If you win your division you desrve to be one of the top 3 seeds.
 
[quote name='"Dallas Morning News"']Deputy commissioner Russ Granik likes the idea of taking the three division winners in each conference along with the runner-up with the best record and seeding those teams one through four according to record.
[/QUOTE]

I'd like the NBA playoffs being seeded in this format. It would eliminate having a team being seeded at four and having a much better record than the other two division winners.
 
[quote name='Genocidal']And as soon as it gets changed, a team will barely win in a tough division, coming out with a lower record and getting a lower seed. Then the bitching will continue. Division winners get the highest seeds in every American sport, and I can't find a compelling argument to change it for the NBA.

I also find it funny that everyone seems to think the guy from "their team" should be MVP. Just look at locations and who the poster's arguing about being MVP.[/QUOTE]
I'm from Ohio, and I'm not arguing for LeBron. ;) Just because I live in Tempe now doesn't mean I'm a fan because I live here at the moment. I've been a fan since Barkely was in town. Nice try though.

[quote name='Grave_Addiction']Yeah, the NBA should take it away, because it's a giving a false reading of that team's success. So a team should get rewarded more for winning a division rather than trying to have the most wins in their conference?

What's more telling of a team's success - winning their division or winning more games? It's simple, teams with the best records should get rewarded with a higher playoff seeding for winning more games.

The Denver Nuggets finished the season with a 44-38 record and the third seed in the playoffs. That's a .538 winning percentage, barely over .500. Do you honestly think it's reasonable that they are seeded higher than the Mavericks who have a .732 winning percentage? That's just plain stupid, and many journalists have predicted the NBA will look to change it this offseason.[/QUOTE]
In a perfect world, the top 8 teams would make it in based on their skill rating, but we don't live there and the playoffs aren't ranked by . Having the most wins in your conference does have a reward, it's called winning your division by default.

If a team is truly as good as their record says they are, they'll actually win their series, not have to rely on their rankings to affect the outcome.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Bullshit? You expecting Phoenix to play this well Amare out for most of the year? Nash completely deserves the MVP more than anyone else. He was an early lock for it when the Suns had a great start with only two remaining great players.


So Josh Howard, Darrell Armstrong, Jason Terry, and Erick Dampier had no bearing on the Mavs' success? Since when do the playoffs have any bearing on the MVP? It's a regular season award, so a player's performance in the playoffs aren't, and shouldn't, be factored into the decision.


Sure, take away any advantage a team should get for winning their division.[/QUOTE]

Most journalists were expecting Dallas to struggle to make the playoffs and in a 6-8 seed if they did make the playoffs also. I'm not trying to take anything away from the other players on the Mavs team, because they have no doubt contributed to their success.

And I was just talking about Dirk's play in the playoffs, because of the user that said he folds under pressure.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']

If a team is truly as good as their record says they are, they'll actually win their series, not have to rely on their rankings to affect the outcome.[/quote]

You're missing the entire point of rewarding a team's success. If we used your logic, then what's the point for having the one seed play the eight seed at the start of the playoffs? If they're as good as their record suggests, they should play all the top-seeded teams first, right?

When it's all said and done, it just seems silly to have a 60-win team seeded lower than a 44-win team. Plain and simple.

You can't make a valid argument with any credibility to suggest winning a division is a better measuring stick than total number of wins. It's just not logical.

If you have three really great teams in a great division, they'll still wind up with better overall records than three crappy teams in a crappy division.
 
And if you have three great teams in the same division, they'll more than likely all have lower records than an above-average team in a division full of crappy teams.
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']You're missing the entire point of rewarding a team's success. If we used your logic, then what's the point for having the one seed play the eight seed at the start of the playoffs? If they're as good as their record suggests, they should play all the top-seeded teams first, right?

When it's all said and done, it just seems silly to have a 60-win team seeded lower than a 44-win team. Plain and simple.

You can't make a valid argument with any credibility to suggest winning a division is a better measuring stick than total number of wins. It's just not logical.

If you have three really great teams in a great division, they'll still wind up with better overall records than three crappy teams in a crappy division.[/QUOTE]
Winning a division should be rewarded. Giving them no reward and rewarding those that win, but not win the division is stupid. They should get an advantage, even if it's just the small one called homecourt advantage.
 
[quote name='Genocidal']And if you have three great teams in the same division, they'll more than likely all have lower records than an above-average team in a division full of crappy teams.[/quote]

Southwest Division
San Antonio 63-19
Dallas 60-22
Memphis 49-33

Northwest Division
Denver 44-38
Utah 41-41
Seattle 35-47

I rest my case.
 
[quote name='ksuwild25']Most journalists were expecting Dallas to struggle to make the playoffs and in a 6-8 seed if they did make the playoffs also. I'm not trying to take anything away from the other players on the Mavs team, because they have no doubt contributed to their success.

And I was just talking about Dirk's play in the playoffs, because of the user that said he folds under pressure.[/quote]

Wait, who expected the Mavs to stuggle? I really hope your joking, because when Nash lost Amare for the year before the season, nobody picked the Suns to make it to the playoffs.
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']Southwest Division
San Antonio 63-19
Dallas 60-22
Memphis 49-33

Northwest Division
Denver 44-38
Utah 41-41
Seattle 35-47

I rest my case.[/quote]

If Dallas wants to be taken forreal, then they'll have to go through a hellish draw for the playoffs. Stop bitching, accept the fact that the Mavs will have to face whoever, if your complaining about the fact your Mavs have to face the Spurs with an injured Duncan, then I dread having to hear you complain about having to face the Pistons.
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']Southwest Division
San Antonio 63-19
Dallas 60-22
Memphis 49-33

Northwest Division
Denver 44-38
Utah 41-41
Seattle 35-47

I rest my case.[/QUOTE]
So you basing your whole case on the standings of one season? Just because this year it looks like that doesn' mean others will. If a team wins a division they should be rewarded. And no matter which way the NBA chooses to go there will always be something wrong with the system. It can't be perfect. To me the one now makes the most sense.
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']Dirk has shown all season long that he's capable of winning games under pressure. I've seen him hit last-second shots to win a game several times this season.

This is a different team under Avery. He has this team so much better prepared than any other Mavs team of this era.

I believe Dirk was right in yelling at Terry. Because he didn't foul Nash before he shot the three-pointer, we lost the game. We had a foul to give, and it would have forced the Suns into a much quicker shot, which would have likely had us winning the game.

Finley and Van Exel are over the hill; they are done. Finley can't play defense and can barely dribble the ball without it bouncing off his feet, and Van Exel is okay in very limited play. His knees are too messed up to be anything but a reserve.

I think Dirk, Howard, Terry, Stackhouse, Damp, Diop, Harris, Daniels, Griffin and Van Horn can beat the Spurs. The Mavs bench is easily the best in the league, and I think they will be the deciding factor in beating the Spurs in a seven-game series.[/QUOTE]

Until the Mavs prove they can do something in the playoffs (get to the Finals), the Spurs will get the respect.

Dirk = 0 championships
Duncan = 3 championships

Proven winner gets the benefit of the doubt.
 
[quote name='Madskills1182']So you basing your whole case on the standings of one season? Just because this year it looks like that doesn' mean others will. If a team wins a division they should be rewarded. And no matter which way the NBA chooses to go there will always be something wrong with the system. It can't be perfect. To me the one now makes the most sense.[/quote]
No, that was merely this season's sampling. Here are the two previous seasons.

2004-2005
Southwest Division
San Antonio 59-23
Dallas 58-24
Houston 51-31

Atlantic Division
Boston 45-37
Philadelphia 43-39
New Jersey 42-40

2003-2004
Midwest Division
Minnesota 58-24
San Antonio 57-25
Dallas 52-30

Atlantic Division
New Jersey 47-35
Miami 42-40
New York 39-43

As you can clearly see, the division with the best teams always will have better records than the divisions with the lesser talented teams.

[quote name='ph33r m3']If Dallas wants to be taken forreal, then they'll have to go through a hellish draw for the playoffs. Stop bitching, accept the fact that the Mavs will have to face whoever, if your complaining about the fact your Mavs have to face the Spurs with an injured Duncan, then I dread having to hear you complain about having to face the Pistons.[/quote]
I could care less about who the Mavs have to face in the playoffs. I'm confident they can beat whoever they face. That's not my complaint and has nothing to do with my original argument at all.

And just for the record, I think the Spurs will give Dallas a tougher fight than Detroit. Detroit's starting five are very good, but their bench is very lacking.

[quote name='unforeseen']Until the Mavs prove they can do something in the playoffs (get to the Finals), the Spurs will get the respect.

Dirk = 0 championships
Duncan = 3 championships

Proven winner gets the benefit of the doubt.[/quote]

Duncan has had a more talented team each of the times Dallas has faced them in the playoffs. This is the first season where Dallas can match San Antonio talent wise.
 
Pistons bench is lacking?? Delk, hunter, and Mcdyess have al played really good for them off the bech all year long. And like I said before this is an argument both ways for changing the seeding. They shouldn't have divisions then if there is no reason for a team to win it. It should just be the East and West Conferences.
 
[quote name='Madskills1182']Pistons bench is lacking?? Delk, hunter, and Mcdyess have al played really good for them off the bech all year long. And like I said before this is an argument both ways for changing the seeding. They shouldn't have divisions then if there is no reason for a team to win it. It should just be the East and West Conferences.[/quote]

When I say their bench is lacking, I'm comparing them to the other top teams in the league, like San Antonio and Dallas.

Like you said, the Pistons have Delk, Hunter and McDyess.

The Spurs have Finley, Van Exel, Horry Nesterovic and Barry. The Mavs have Stackhouse, Dampier, Harris, Armstrong and Daniels.

If the Pistons lose any of their starting five, they are done.

The snippet of the article I post earlier makes perfect sense. The NBA should take the top three division winners and the team with the best record that isn't a division winner and seed them by their record.
 
Sorry but in the clutch, Horry >>> Stackhouse, Dampier, Harris, Armstrong and Daniels

Dallas may match talent-wise but how about the experience of winning in the playoffs. Again, you MUST beat the Spurs to prove something. Dallas has not done that in a 7-game series. Simple as that.

To be the champs, you have to beat the champs --- Dallas has not done any of that. This thread has been nothing but your argument that Mavs >> than all the teams in the Western Conference.

This Dallas team is different? So is every other team from last season.
 
[quote name='unforeseen']Sorry but in the clutch, Horry >>> Stackhouse, Dampier, Harris, Armstrong and Daniels

Dallas may match talent-wise but how about the experience of winning in the playoffs. Again, you MUST beat the Spurs to prove something. Dallas has not done that in a 7-game series. Simple as that.

To be the champs, you have to beat the champs --- Dallas has not done any of that. This thread has been nothing but your argument that Mavs >> than all the teams in the Western Conference.

This Dallas team is different? So is every other team from last season.[/quote]

Well, no shit. This season's Mavs team is the easily the best Cuban has put on the floor and that means a lot when you look at the second-round matchup between Dallas and San Antonio. This will be the closest series between the two in a long time.

And we don't need to bring a player off the bench to try to win the game for us. We have Dirk or Jet who can do that very well.

Oh, and I created this thread because no one else made one for the NBA playoffs and decided to start it off with a little jab to the blood flowing.
 
Anyway let's talk about the games that are going on. The first two games tonight were pretty much blow outs. Suns, Lakers game just started the 4th. Lakers looking really good tonight and you can see how much the Suns to miss amare with the Lakers pounding it inside tonight.
 
[quote name='Madskills1182']Anyway let's talk about the games that are going on. The first two games tonight were pretty much blow outs. Suns, Lakers game just started the 4th. Lakers looking really good tonight and you can see how much the Suns to miss amare with the Lakers pounding it inside tonight.[/quote]

I agree. The Lakers seem to match up pretty well with the Suns, and they've made sure not to get lured into the Suns' style of play tonight.
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']Yeah, the NBA should take it away, because it's a giving a false reading of that team's success. So a team should get rewarded more for winning a division rather than trying to have the most wins in their conference?

What's more telling of a team's success - winning their division or winning more games? It's simple, teams with the best records should get rewarded with a higher playoff seeding for winning more games.

The Denver Nuggets finished the season with a 44-38 record and the third seed in the playoffs. That's a .538 winning percentage, barely over .500. Do you honestly think it's reasonable that they are seeded higher than the Mavericks who have a .732 winning percentage? That's just plain stupid, and many journalists have predicted the NBA will look to change it this offseason.[/quote]
They arn't predicting, they are just bitching... the same way they "predict" a change in the bcs system for ncaa football.

And it should stay the way it is. The mavricks can win 70 game but if they don't win the division then they get stuck at 4th seed.
 
No matter what sport i watch and follow i say the same thing about every playoff run.

I don't care what seed you are, Where you go, who you face, and what time you play, If your the better team STFU and prove it.
 
Well the Lakers took one in Phoniex. This series is looking better and better. At first I thought it might be a lopsided series for the Suns but the Lakers are playing well, and get this as a TEAM. Kobe hasnt score over 30. Should be interesting going to LA. Anyway since all the focus has been on the Mavericks how about some Eastern Conference talk. I still think my Nets can win. They need to win tomorrow and they will be in great shape to win the fisrt series.
 
I hate the Lakers but they played a good game tonight. Props to the true team in LA. I still do not believe the hype with the Clippers, yet...
 
kobe%20nash.gif


the lakers v. suns game was sick, esp. dis play.
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']Wait, who expected the Mavs to stuggle? I really hope your joking, because when Nash lost Amare for the year before the season, nobody picked the Suns to make it to the playoffs.[/QUOTE]

Some of the people from ESPN. They said the Mavs would miss Finley's leadership.
 
awesome dunk. Even my brother who hates kobe was like "Even thought I hate Kobe I have to give him props for that one."
 
[quote name='DT778']awesome dunk. Even my brother who hates kobe was like "Even thought I hate Kobe I have to give him props for that one."[/QUOTE]

Kobe did play a great game but in the end that "Block" Foul almost changed the entire complexition of the game.
 
[quote name='thingsfallnapart']Kobe did play a great game but in the end that "Block" Foul almost changed the entire complexition of the game.[/QUOTE]
Yeah i thought that was a charge.
 
Nets played terrible tonight. They need the next game or there season is over. Bulls impressed me but I think that might be the only game they win of that series unless they can get Shaq to pick up early fouls like they did tonight. So far the most entertaining game of the night Clippers, Nuggets. Close game.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Posey was suspended for a game for pushing whoever it was during the game.[/QUOTE]
Yeah saw that today. I don't think that will affect the next game to much. Posey is good off the but the Heat are pretty deep.
 
[quote name='Madskills1182']Yeah saw that today. I don't think that will affect the next game to much. Posey is good off the but the Heat are pretty deep.[/QUOTE]

if the heat are so "Deep," How come they aren't as good as last year's team?
 
[quote name='thingsfallnapart']if the heat are so "Deep," How come they aren't as good as last year's team?[/QUOTE]
How do you know that? You haven't seen yet how far they will go in the playoffs so you can't make that assumption. I think they are better then last year only time will tell.
 
How incredible is it that the Lakers, of all teams, are playing better team basketball than any other team? What a fun team they are to watch. You've got Kobe playing tough and getting everyone involved, Luke Walton doing EVERYTHING, Kwame being un-Kwame-esque, and all of them playing tough and exposing the Suns (except for Raja Bell) as the sissies they are. Great stuff...I hope they end this series in 5 and go the distance.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Posey was suspended for a game for pushing whoever it was during the game.[/quote]

Posey is a fucking piece of shit! I was at the game and he fucking leveled Hinrich. He should be out for the rest of the fucking playoffs. And I am saying it now, the Bulls are going to win the series in 6 games. The Bulls still have home court advantage :D
 
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