Microsoft Bait and Switch for New Vegas DLC - Please discuss here

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At the very least MS should allow people effected either to keep the content for free or remove it from their accounts so they can't be charged the 800 points. Pretty dick move on Microsoft's part to charge people for something advertised as "free."
 
[quote name='Pirate331']Was my explanation over your head? I will clarify: there was no sale.

MS can probably track everyone who purchased the DLC during the erroneous pricing and invalidate their content until they pay up. That's what should have happened. But acting like they're stealing from you is not the appropriate response either. You all know you were taking advantage of an error, and you got caught.[/QUOTE]

This.
 
I'm not sure what people are defending. Getting DLC for "free" has happened dozens of times before, and none of those times have people been charged. Do you think that those times were freebies given out by Microsoft as some contest? Do you think that they didn't charge because they didn't want to?

It isn't "bait and switch", but it is illegal to sell something at a different price or retroactively charge. It's just like buying something at the store with a credit card, and the receipt says "$0", and then you get your bill and it says "$10". If there was a physical receipt at a physical store, this would be a non-issue and you'd get your money back immediately.

There isn't a gray area for "free" vs. "price difference". Would the same argument be happening if it was marked as "$5", prompted for "$5", deducted "$5",..and then 2 days later deducted another 5?
 
in my view, this is the same as when stores have incorrect price tags up on shelves. they have to honor that price even if it was an expired tag or misprint (unless their is a correction already put up. for example, if the weekly flyer has a misprint saying something is cheaper then it should be, and the store puts up an ad correction before anyone goes to purchase it). i worker 4 years in retail and stores always followed this policy, making sure to remove the incorrect/old tag so more people didn't take advantage of it, but honoring it for those that got it. i think microsoft is in the wrong since when you go to purchase something, it says the sale is final when you add it to your queue, not when you finish the download. it said the price was 0msp, so adding 800msp later isn't right. microsoft has made the same mistake before, accidentally putting up dlc as free, and never charged for it before.

also on a relevant topic...i also downloaded the dlc when it was free, and my points were never retroactively charged.
 
Free is free!! Free is free!! Free is free!! Free is free!! Free is free!! Free is free!! Bottom line.... Free is free. I didn't dl the content but I believe the megacorp should pay for their alleged mistake.
 
[quote name='y2jasper']in my view, this is the same as when stores have incorrect price tags up on shelves. they have to honor that price even if it was an expired tag or misprint[/QUOTE]

Um (I'm not a lawyer), I don't think this is true. They have the right to refuse to sell it to you.
 
[quote name='elessar123']Um (I'm not a lawyer), I don't think this is true. They have the right to refuse to sell it to you.[/QUOTE]

Some states do have laws regarding price tag errors. The store has to sell it to you for the lowest advertised price. I don't know exactly how the laws work if the store refuses to sell you the items, though. They aren't legally required to sell you anything.
 
[quote name='DarkRider23']Jesus fucking christ. How many more times are you going to say "It said FREE?" Stfu already. Obviously, Microsoft doesn't give two shits and unless you give them bad publicity, you're fucked. Ranting on a forum isn't going to do shit for you so send this stupid message to the consumerist or whatever site you want. I highly doubt Microsoft is going to care if they lose a customer like you, a cheapass. You aren't the type of customer that makes them the big bucks, so why care?[/QUOTE]

Is the name of this site NOT CHEAPASSGAMER.COM??? I personally think the OP is in the right, but for the amount of money involved to persue legal action, it isn't worth it.
 
I love how some of you say the people who downloaded the expansion were dishonest? And got caught?? Lol!! Ms should eat the loss, after all, they did the screwing up. Was the free fable 2 game dl also a "mistake"?
 
Hey guys, I got some Family Guy userpics on XBL for free a number of years ago. If Microsoft decides to charge me for them now, I'm going to be pissed.

I'm done arguing. It was wrong for Microsoft to have charged the 800 MS Points retroactively, and everybody who is defending Microsoft's decision to any extent, whether it be that they were entirely justified to it being that they're casting shame on the person for taking advantage of Microsoft but also acknowledging that Microsoft is also partially at fault, is pants on head retarded.
 
[quote name='thegreek']i love how some of you say the people who downloaded the expansion were dishonest? And got caught?? Lol!! Ms should eat the loss, after all, they did the screwing up. Was the free fable 2 game dl also a "mistake"?[/quote]

yes, it was a mistake, you fucking dumbass!!!!!!!
 
And also, here's what no one is getting. He wasn't retroactively charged!! If they had charged him after the DL, that would be a retroactive charge. However, he was charged at the correct time for the purchase because all he did was click a button saying he would like the content. Then, they charged him, and the content downloaded. He said himself that this is true! Jesus Christ, does anyone pay attention to detail?? He deserves nothing but the content he BOUGHT. End of story.
 
The amount of people who think the OP is in the wrong is astounding. It'd be like going into a store, seeing a box of stuff marked "Free" with a tag on it that says, "Take me, I'm free!" and then having the store pull your credit card number that they have on file somehow and charging you. It's patently retarded to defend Microsoft post charging someone after they've went through the "payment" process for the free item. They own that content, 0.00 is the price they paid, and that's the end of it. There is a license that the user owns for this, or otherwise Microsoft wouldn't be able to track the people who got it for free.

People saying, "What do the OP suspect? It was an accident and Microsoft deserves their money" really, really need to brush up morals that business should abide by.

OP, did this charge show up on billing.microsoft.com? I checked my billing there for December and didn't see anything. If this is a ninja charge, I'll really have no idea if I was charged or not. Also, I read through the OP and it doesn't sound like anyone else was affected?

EDIT: After reading MrDude's post and the OP, the OP added it to the queue, and by the time he was able to download, it deducted 800 points without notifying him of the charge? That's ridiculous. I've queued up a lot of on sale games and downloaded them when they've reverted to full price, and never got charged full price. You pay for the content the second you queue it online. It would be ridiculous if, say, I got Hydo Thunder today for 400 points on the site, and then downloaded it tomorrow and was charged 800 more points. That's wrong.
 
Wait...so he had a choice to either keep the content for 800 points or "opt out" which problem means they would deauthorized his download?

If he decided to keep the content after that option, then he has no reason to try and be all Mr. Class Action Lawsuit Man. It's no worse than you ordering something online that was price mistake, only for them to cancel your order because of their error.

You may not like it, but they have a right to do it.
 
Why can't Microsoft be more like Best Buy and give out a free $10 or $20 for simply calling up and complaining about something? God knows, they can afford it. They are Microsoft!!!!
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']The amount of people who think the OP is in the wrong is astounding. It'd be like going into a store, seeing a box of stuff marked "Free" with a tag on it that says, "Take me, I'm free!" and then having the store pull your credit card number that they have on file somehow and charging you. It's patently retarded to defend Microsoft post charging someone after they've went through the "payment" process for the free item. They own that content, 0.00 is the price they paid, and that's the end of it. There is a license that the user owns for this, or otherwise Microsoft wouldn't be able to track the people who got it for free.

People saying, "What do the OP suspect? It was an accident and Microsoft deserves their money" really, really need to brush up morals that business should abide by.

OP, did this charge show up on billing.microsoft.com? I checked my billing there for December and didn't see anything. If this is a ninja charge, I'll really have no idea if I was charged or not. Also, I read through the OP and it doesn't sound like anyone else was affected?

EDIT: After reading MrDude's post and the OP, the OP added it to the queue, and by the time he was able to download, it deducted 800 points without notifying him of the charge? That's ridiculous. I've queued up a lot of on sale games and downloaded them when they've reverted to full price, and never got charged full price. You pay for the content the second you queue it online. It would be ridiculous if, say, I got Hydo Thunder today for 400 points on the site, and then downloaded it tomorrow and was charged 800 more points. That's wrong.[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying it's right, just that it's covered under their T&C which the OP agreed to when he became an xbox LIVE member.
 
T&C would not cover M$ in the event that they were to go back and withdraw more money from a customers account (be it MS Points, the credit card on file, or send you a bill for it) unless they took less than was authorized. A company is not allowed to take anything past what was agreed upon, and in this case, Free was the going rate at the time. If it was a mistake on M$' part, then they can just go in and invalidate the purchase or make good on it and refund the money and chalk it up as customer satisfaction. I don't care what is advertised elsewhere, when I bring something to the register, the price that shows up (or lack of one in this case) is what I agree to. The logic here for a large portion of you is that the advertised price in other places is what you should pay, even if you didn't agree to it. Does that go the same for buying a new car and paying full MSRP because that's what it states on a website?

Fudge that jazz! M$ is in the wrong. Regardless of whether or not the OP was trying to get something they knew was incorrect, it was still offered at that incorrect price. T&C give a blanket cover, but something like that statement is certainly not the statement that allows M$ to walk all over their customers and do whatever they please. There are limits to all contracts.
 
[quote name='Retom7']T&C would not cover M$ in the event that they were to go back and withdraw more money from a customers account (be it MS Points, the credit card on file, or send you a bill for it) unless they took less than was authorized. A company is not allowed to take anything past what was agreed upon, and in this case, Free was the going rate at the time. If it was a mistake on M$' part, then they can just go in and invalidate the purchase or make good on it and refund the money and chalk it up as customer satisfaction. I don't care what is advertised elsewhere, when I bring something to the register, the price that shows up (or lack of one in this case) is what I agree to. The logic here for a large portion of you is that the advertised price in other places is what you should pay, even if you didn't agree to it. Does that go the same for buying a new car and paying full MSRP because that's what it states on a website?

Fudge that jazz! M$ is in the wrong. Regardless of whether or not the OP was trying to get something they knew was incorrect, it was still offered at that incorrect price. T&C give a blanket cover, but something like that statement is certainly not the statement that allows M$ to walk all over their customers and do whatever they please. There are limits to all contracts.[/QUOTE]

You should read the ToS (or T&C). Reddjoey posted the specific part that gives them the right to do what they did. If the OP agreed to it, whether knowingly or not, they're in the "right". And he was charged at the technical right time. Sure the website said free, but it was an obvious mistake, and it probably activated the purchase at 800 points whether it said so or not. Remember, the website is not always accurate, but the dash is. Also, the price on the site is only a piece of text. Whether it's correct or not can vary.
 
[quote name='Mr Dude65']Also, the price on the site is only a piece of text. Whether it's correct or not can vary.[/QUOTE]

*Must resist urge to argue with soccer mom logic*
 
OP, as you may have noticed so far, Microsoft has trained their users to accept anything they do as ok, rape is the norm and if you think its wrong, you're an idiot and the lol's will come out and smileys. This is what happens when you own the young, unemployed, drug addict demographic. Good luck, MS knows it has you by the balls and you will get squat out of it.
 
I guess I'm strange in that I carry NO substantial balance of MS points in my account.

Suppose I had downloaded the DLC -- I'm talking about from my console and none of that 'download queue for later' nonsense.

Was this showing as FREE on there too? Were people taking advantage of a website glitch? :whistle2:? I'm curious to find out if anyone who had ZERO pts. in their account were able to IMMEDIATELY download it to their HDD -- and still have it now.
 
[quote name='TXboxGuY']I guess I'm strange in that I carry NO substantial balance of MS points in my account.

Suppose I had downloaded the DLC -- I'm talking about from my console and none of that 'download queue for later' nonsense.

Was this showing as FREE on there too? Were people taking advantage of a website glitch? :whistle2:? I'm curious to find out if anyone who had ZERO pts. in their account were able to IMMEDIATELY download it to their HDD -- and still have it now.[/QUOTE]
Phew glad none of the debit card's on my account have no $ and that I only have 90 points.

Yeah I got it for free and I let it finish asap on my hard drive.
 
[quote name='jerajdai']man, i hope i don't get retroactively charged for that "free" copy of fable ii i downloaded awhile back. :/[/quote]

+1
 
[quote name='blitz6speed']OP, as you may have noticed so far, Microsoft has trained their users to accept anything they do as ok, rape is the norm and if you think its wrong, you're an idiot and the lol's will come out and smileys. This is what happens when you own the young, unemployed, drug addict demographic. Good luck, MS knows it has you by the balls and you will get squat out of it.[/QUOTE]

PS3 fanboys GTHO. Do I need to remind you that you no longer have Linux on your updated PS3s?
 
[quote name='WormFOODx']PS3 fanboys GTHO. Do I need to remind you that you no longer have Linux on your updated PS3s?[/QUOTE]

We're all by the balls this gen. I can't wait to see what happens when Sony and MS turn off the switches to their online services and people lose all their DLCs, games, patches, and everything on their servers.
 
[quote name='Blackout']We're all by the balls this gen. I can't wait to see what happens when Sony and MS turn off the switches to their online services and people lose all their DLCs, games, patches, and everything on their servers.[/QUOTE]

Already did. Look at the XBOX 1. Still ticked off about that.
 
[quote name='Chuplayer']Already did. Look at the XBOX 1. Still ticked off about that.[/QUOTE]

I know. That's where I was drawing from.
 
[quote name='Blackout']We're all by the balls this gen. I can't wait to see what happens when Sony and MS turn off the switches to their online services and people lose all their DLCs, games, patches, and everything on their servers.[/QUOTE]

It's not just that.

You have Steam, GoG, Games for Windows, and many more to worry about. Next we have EA as the good guy, Activision as the bad guy, and the customer is rarely right.

In this case, the OP tried to get something free and he didn't. Microsoft can't take it away from you because they can't delete things from your HD by law. Is it right they charged you? Eh, kinda. It was a crap move and they may have had grounds to do it and they might not have. Should you pay for it? Yes. The moment you are doing something and feel sneaky for it there will be some sort of consequence. Are you fighting the good fight? Maybe. Walmart made a strong move towards everyone that bought Iron Man 2 on their web site during their price mistake.

For what it is, EVERYONE has us by the short and curlies, and that includes me. Am I going to change my behavior due to it? No. I will still try to get free and cheap things due to mistakes. Sometimes it will work and sometimes it won't.

Good luck with your fight, just do it professionally and be careful not to be whiny.
 
Sorry you lost $10 OP. Hope you're still getting by. Feel free to set up a paypal and we can help donate. It's the least we can do to help a victim.
 
[quote name='Chuplayer']Hey guys, I got some Family Guy userpics on XBL for free a number of years ago. If Microsoft decides to charge me for them now, I'm going to be pissed.

I'm done arguing. It was wrong for Microsoft to have charged the 800 MS Points retroactively, and everybody who is defending Microsoft's decision to any extent, whether it be that they were entirely justified to it being that they're casting shame on the person for taking advantage of Microsoft but also acknowledging that Microsoft is also partially at fault, is pants on head retarded.[/QUOTE]

This wasn't the way Microsoft should've gone about approaching the situation; they should've either contacted the users or revoked the DLC license or something other than charging the user after the fact. I also said, though, that the OP would probably just get a bandaid for a bullet wound, and even though he tried to get something free that shouldn't be he didn't deserve to be charged.

Guess I'm done arguing to since I'm so pants on head retarded, though. I feel like I'm arguing against that psychologist woman who bashed Mass Effect for its "inappropriate" content.
 
[quote name='WormFOODx']It's not just that.

You have Steam, GoG, Games for Windows, and many more to worry about. Next we have EA as the good guy, Activision as the bad guy, and the customer is rarely right.

.[/QUOTE]

Oh, definitely. I was just talking about the console side of things, but the PC side is just the same.
 
Come on people... if someone had posted this under "deals" (and I haven't bothered to check), everyone would've been jumping all over the place to try and download it. I did the same thing when they put Fable 2 up for free, and I'm sure a bunch of other people did too. If I had seen this I would've done the same thing, and it's complete bullshit for MS to charge after the fact, and yes, it is a bait and switch.
 
I feel for you. Technically you can't sue for less than $25 but if it was a class action suit you can get your money back. Everyone on here, this site especially, has tried to obtain a great deal or mistake by a store so I'm surprised that others are not sympathetic.

They shouldn't have let you download the content. We all know the website had the wrong price. But when it came over to the dashboard it should have done a price check and kicked it out if it was not agreed to. Then they should have sent you email stating they cancelled the order. It's akin to the time I tried to get Battallion Wars Wii online for $1.90 brand new. I new it was a pricing mistake, but they caught it before shipping and cancelled the order. It was a no harm no foul thing. Had they shipped it, they should have had no recourse because it's a completed sale at that point. They can't just charge me $49.99 and ship the item despite what their terms and conditions say.
 
I didn't get charged for my Dead Money free download - because I don't have any stored points. I add them as needed. I wonder if I add points, if they will charge me.
 
[quote name='Mr Dude65']You should read the ToS (or T&C). Reddjoey posted the specific part that gives them the right to do what they did. If the OP agreed to it, whether knowingly or not, they're in the "right". And he was charged at the technical right time. Sure the website said free, but it was an obvious mistake, and it probably activated the purchase at 800 points whether it said so or not. Remember, the website is not always accurate, but the dash is. Also, the price on the site is only a piece of text. Whether it's correct or not can vary.[/QUOTE]

Just because something is in the terms of service does not always make it legally binding. For example, a company could slip in there that they have the right to charge your credit card whatever they want whenever they want and take your life. Obviously, these are extremes but serve to illustrate that just because something is written and you agree to it by clicking a button or purchasing a product does not make it binding. Specific aspects of ToS or other such documents are invalidated by courts all the time.

I do not want to give legal advice over the internet, but I would be EXTREMELY skeptical over a company's ability to charge a different price for a good without an acceptance by the consumer. When a price mistake occurs over the internet it may be acceptable to cancel the transaction- It is an entirely different matter to deliver the goods and charge a price not agreed to by the other party. One could imagine just how dangerous allowing a party to do such a thing could be, they could intentionally advertise a sale then deliver the good to thousands of people at a different price. Also, to those saying its your job as a consumer to be informed about exactly what price something should be, that is just down right laughable. Prices fluctuate all the time, its not the consumers job to ensure the store isn't making a pricing mistake. It's the store with its trained employees and sophisticated software's burden. A consumer has every right to rely on an advertised price unless informed of a mistake.
 
[quote name='leshrac55']Come on people... if someone had posted this under "deals" (and I haven't bothered to check), everyone would've been jumping all over the place to try and download it. I did the same thing when they put Fable 2 up for free, and I'm sure a bunch of other people did too. If I had seen this I would've done the same thing, and it's complete bullshit for MS to charge after the fact, and yes, it is a bait and switch.[/QUOTE]

Totally and completely agreed. It's one thing for Microsoft to not honor a price mistake, but its completely wrong to charge after the fact without giving the opportunity to opt out. And yeah, if this DLC would have been posted on the deals page as free, it would have been swarmed on and the thread would be 5 pages in a matter of minutes.
 
[quote name='WormFOODx']PS3 fanboys GTHO. Do I need to remind you that you no longer have Linux on your updated PS3s?[/QUOTE]

I'm sure the four people that actually used it are devestated.
 
This is pretty messed up. You cannot charge someone for something they got for free, no matter what is in their terms of service. And for those of you who are saying that the people got what they deserve, go look in a mirror and see if you can honestly tell yourself that you have never, ever took advantage of a glitch. Seriously? Not for nothing, but many "deals" that get posted on CAG are the results of price mistakes or glitches.

[quote name='Blackout']We're all by the balls this gen. I can't wait to see what happens when Sony and MS turn off the switches to their online services and people lose all their DLCs, games, patches, and everything on their servers.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Chuplayer']Already did. Look at the XBOX 1. Still ticked off about that.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Blackout']I know. That's where I was drawing from.[/QUOTE]

It's a concern, for sure, but I wouldn't be too quick to use the Xbox as the example of how "obsolete" downloadable content will be handled. Xbox Live was in its infancy during the Xbox generation, and such, was likely not developed with the future in mind. Thus, it was probably impractical for Microsoft to continue to support the Xbox, while also trying to move ahead.

Also, like the train of thought or not, the Xbox sold like 25 million units and outside of handful of wildly popular games, like Halo 2, there weren't many people left playing Xbox games. Plus, the amount of DLC for the Xbox was a mere drop in the bucket compared to today. So Microsoft was well aware that they were not pissing off enough people for them to care about the outrage over pulling the plug.
 
Usually when I've seen stuff like this at reduced prices (or for free) I've seen the seller acknowledge the error or make up something like a shipment error. I think Target did something like the latter when they put up the entire LoTR trilogy for blu-ray on their website for something like $10. If they suddenly said 'Oh sorry it should've been $90' then charged all the people who bought it for $10 an extra $80, that would be unfair.

You click the 'download' button or the purchase button with the assumption that you will get it for the price it is being advertised at. Microsoft fucked up putting it up there as 'free' content, and they should either A) give the people who downloaded it when it was free their content or B) take the content away from the people who downloaded it and inform them of the error
 
ITT: People butthurt over not getting something for free they knew full well wasn't supposed to be free in the first place.
 
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