Microsoft Bait and Switch for New Vegas DLC - Please discuss here

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[quote name='caltab']I haven't researched it or anything, but I believe the type of virtual currency at issue here has not been subject to much litigation or legislation because its a new concept. It's my personal opinion that all MS points are is money because they have absolutely no other purpose but to buy things. I do not believe a court would uphold a companies right to take it away from you for whatever reason they feel like. I could certainly be wrong, I am sure there are arguments both ways, but personally I tend to favor consumer friendly interpretations.[/QUOTE]
This. There is precedent for consumer rights when it comes to gift cards. I suppose until push comes to shove to space bucks, Microsoft will technically be allowed to do whatever it wants. It's not right, but I think if anything ever happened on an epic scale, I really think we could see some legal intervention after a class action is formalized.
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']This. There is precedent for consumer rights when it comes to gift cards. I suppose until push comes to shove to space bucks, Microsoft will technically be allowed to do whatever it wants. It's not right, but I think if anything ever happened on an epic scale, I really think we could see some legal intervention after a class action is formalized.[/QUOTE]

I will give you this. All I was saying earlier was that they are legally in the right. I did not agree with what they did and often said it was wrong. At least we have reached an understanding:)
 
Late to the party, but has anyone else besides the OP been affected by this? I'm sure he's not the only one that got in on the DLC while it was free?
 
[quote name='Pookymeister']Late to the party, but has anyone else besides the OP been affected by this? I'm sure he's not the only one that got in on the DLC while it was free?[/QUOTE]
I asked this a while ago, no one responded. In the graveyard, one guy mentioned getting retro charged for the DLC.
 
[quote name='Pookymeister']Late to the party, but has anyone else besides the OP been affected by this? I'm sure he's not the only one that got in on the DLC while it was free?[/QUOTE]

I was charged, but that was because I purchased from the dashboard.
 
Other people were able to cash in on the free DLC. There are at least 2 previous posts that indicate they downloaded it and have not seen a charge hit their account. Literally they must have just updated the website between the time he pulled up the page that showed free and clicked confirm and it charged him the updated 800 points.

All prices are negotiable. I've gotten $200 a weight set at Dick's Sporting Goods that was not advertised by negotiating with the sales clerk. My dad has gotten prices negotiated at Sear's and Sam's Club. People pay different prices all the time. The fact that it was advertized as different elsewhere doesn't matter. Look at car sales, everybody pays a different price. It's very rare for two people to walk out with the same deal on the same car.

I'm not sure on the points vs. money. I think when push comes to shove a court would see that you are required to purchase points to utilize the service and the whole reason for points is to purchase items so they are in essence money. But it is interesting that gift cards have so many rules and as yet downloadable content doesn't. But I'm sure that will change shortly.

Do we have an update if the original poster got his money back yet? You can say it's just $10 so why should he care, but I would ask why Microsoft cares. They are at least partially at fault (legally or not) for this occuring and they would make up the $10 on one additional game purchase. Given those two things I would think that they'll eventually give him his money back, but it might take a couple of hours on the phone/email.
 
I got this for free and haven't been charged. I added some points last night to download the new Dead Rising 2 and M$ didn't manage to get their hands on it.

I think the OP is kind of being a baby about this whole thing. The DLC is worth the $10.
 
Worth is subjective, you don't know him and how much he'll truly use it. If I said it was worth $30 and Microsoft came back and charged you another $20 for it, is it okay because I think it's worth it? Worth is also irrelevant in this situation since the transaction was completed at a price not agreed upon. I mean I think my house was worth at least $10k more than I paid for it. But I would have been mad as heck if I showed up at close and they were charging me $10k more because that was what the house was worth.
 
[quote name='thegreek']If a car dealer pulled this shit it would be illegal. What makes Microsoft so special?[/QUOTE]

Please shut up. You obviously haven't read any of the last posts, as I think we all came to the conclusion that it's not even close to the same thing.
 
[quote name='smallsharkbigbite']Worth is subjective, you don't know him and how much he'll truly use it. If I said it was worth $30 and Microsoft came back and charged you another $20 for it, is it okay because I think it's worth it? Worth is also irrelevant in this situation since the transaction was completed at a price not agreed upon. I mean I think my house was worth at least $10k more than I paid for it. But I would have been mad as heck if I showed up at close and they were charging me $10k more because that was what the house was worth.[/QUOTE]
Microsoft didn't come back and charge him 100-200% more than it is SUPPOSED to cost. Anyone who has bought DLC in the past, especially for Fallout knows the usual price for all of the DLC. Every news outlet related to videogames has dictated this was going to be 800MSP. A few of us got the free DLC, this kid THOUGHT he did, but ol' Microsoft charged him the full price. Tough shit.

Also, save your house analogy - you're talking about thousands of dollars. I'm talking about $10. Obviously if this involved thousands of dollars there would be some sort of litigation. Don't be a fucking idiot.
 
[quote name='Stoic Person Eater']Microsoft didn't come back and charge him 100-200% more than it is SUPPOSED to cost. Anyone who has bought DLC in the past, especially for Fallout knows the usual price for all of the DLC. Every news outlet related to videogames has dictated this was going to be 800MSP. A few of us got the free DLC, this kid THOUGHT he did, but ol' Microsoft charged him the full price. Tough shit.

Also, save your house analogy - you're talking about thousands of dollars. I'm talking about $10. Obviously if this involved thousands of dollars there would be some sort of litigation. Don't be a fucking idiot.[/QUOTE]

QFT.

Quit being a kid and crying just cause you got caught trying to steal from someone. And don't say it's not stealing. Cause it totally is. Just cause someone leaves a pie cooling on a windowsill doesn't give you the right to take that pie as your own. And it's just 10 dollars. You make that much in an hour or so, even at some menial labor job, so don't even complain.

And you don't see anyone else fighting against Microsoft because they didn't get the "free" DLC all those other times when they were up, do you? That's because it's stupid. You got caught, deal with the consequences. Be glad they aren't agreeing to terminate your Xbox Live for taking advantage of them because they totally have that right to do so.
 
This entire thread of full of people simply talking right past each other.

What the DLC is worth is completely meaningless. I don't care if it normally costs $10, and everyone feels like it's worth $40. The point is, the OP decided to download it, because it was free. That's what he wanted to "pay." And that's what he "paid," or so he thought. Honestly, I don't even see what the point of arguing this aspect of it is.

Another thing people keep bringing up is, "Well, the Fallout DLC is always 800 points, so you should have known it was 800 points." As I and others have already said, it's not the responsibility of the consumer to know what the price of something is at all the times. That's pretty silly. Also, it's a bit naive to think that every person who owns a 360 knows that DLC for Fallout is always 800 points. Me, I am a big fan of the Fallout series, and I bought all of the FO3 DLC at launch, so I know they were always 800 points. But I don't know about DLC pricing structures for ALL series.

The only real valid and meaningful argument is whether or not MS has the right to take his points. And obviously, we've been arguing that 10+ pages without a resolution, so I really don't have anything else to add.

I do find it quite disheartening, though, that a number of people in this thread completely fail to see the bigger picture here. I think that outside the OP, no one else in the thread was affected by this, but a lot of people are defending the OP. Why? Because the fact that MS can just go into your account and takes points over a screw-up that was their fault is a scary proposition. If you fail to see that, I feel bad for you.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']This entire thread of full of people simply talking right past each other.

What the DLC is worth is completely meaningless. I don't care if it normally costs $10, and everyone feels like it's worth $40. The point is, the OP decided to download it, because it was free. That's what he wanted to "pay." And that's what he "paid," or so he thought. Honestly, I don't even see what the point of arguing this aspect of it is.

Another thing people keep bringing up is, "Well, the Fallout DLC is always 800 points, so you should have known it was 800 points." As I and others have already said, it's not the responsibility of the consumer to know what the price of something is at all the times. That's pretty silly. Also, it's a bit naive to think that every person who owns a 360 knows that DLC for Fallout is always 800 points. Me, I am a big fan of the Fallout series, and I bought all of the FO3 DLC at launch, so I know they were always 800 points. But I don't know about DLC pricing structures for ALL series.

The only real valid and meaningful argument is whether or not MS has the right to take his points. And obviously, we've been arguing that 10+ pages without a resolution, so I really don't have anything else to add.

I do find it quite disheartening, though, that a number of people in this thread completely fail to see the bigger picture here. I think that outside the OP, no one else in the thread was affected by this, but a lot of people are defending the OP. Why? Because the fact that MS can just go into your account and takes points over a screw-up that was their fault is a scary proposition. If you fail to see that, I feel bad for you.[/QUOTE]


Yes, it IS a scary thought that Microsoft can just take points out of your account. But what makes it LESS scary in this situation is that Microsoft CHOSE to charge him full price for what he bought. The DLC wasnt on sale or anything so they took what was rightfully theirs. It's not like they charged him an extra 200 points or something worse because he took advantage of their system, which they could have easily done. If they did that, then he would have legal recourse. But they charged the EXACT price everyone else (except for those who got away with it) paid for the DLC. Now it isn't a complete reassurance that they won't take your points without just cause, but in this situation it's completely fair. If one day, they do end up taking points out for no reason at all, then you can bring it up with the BBB but for now, since there IS a legitimate reason/pricing, Tough shit.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']I do find it quite disheartening, though, that a number of people in this thread completely fail to see the bigger picture here. I think that outside the OP, no one else in the thread was affected by this, but a lot of people are defending the OP. Why? Because the fact that MS can just go into your account and takes points over a screw-up that was their fault is a scary proposition. If you fail to see that, I feel bad for you.[/QUOTE]

That's right. A few pages back, I posted an example of Madden DLC to show the screen on the website marketplace right before you download an item. That DLC I used as an example is free. Or is it? I don't know. I don't play Madden and know nothing about it. For all I know, that example I used was another glitch on the website. What if I did download it because free is free and then later on I got charged the 80 points it was supposed to cost? That's terrible but the many of you fail to see why it's bad to have consumer rights violated like that. YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN IT WAS FREE IF YOU PAID ATTENTION TO DLC TRENDS YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT 90% OF DLC HAS A COST TIED TO IT YOU TOOK A GAMBLE BY DOWNLOADING THAT AND BUDDY LET ME TELL YOU THAT YOU LOST QUIT CRYING THAT'S WHAT YOU GET FOR TRYING TO STEAL THE PIE OFF THE WINDOW SILL

Really, this thread should be focused on "Wow, wrong action" "Wow, wrong action could potentially be covered by Microsoft's ToS" and "Wow, maybe I'll think before doing business with Microsoft" instead of trolling the OP. Really quite bizarre, some of the responses in this thread.
 
[quote name='Crazyglitcher']Yes, it IS a scary thought that Microsoft can just take points out of your account. But what makes it LESS scary in this situation is that Microsoft CHOSE to charge him full price for what he bought. The DLC wasnt on sale or anything so they took what was rightfully theirs.[/QUOTE]

I'm not going to argue with you because I said I was done arguing about 10 pages back, but I want to slap you with a large wet trout.
 
[quote name='Crazyglitcher']QFT.

Quit being a kid and crying just cause you got caught trying to steal from someone. And don't say it's not stealing. Cause it totally is. Just cause someone leaves a pie cooling on a windowsill doesn't give you the right to take that pie as your own.[/QUOTE]

It's stealing even if there's a sign that says "Free, please take" beside it? And I do believe the poster actually did pay for it, so I'm not sure how it's stealing either way.
 
[quote name='Chuplayer']I'm not going to argue with you because I said I was done arguing about 10 pages back, but I want to slap you with a large wet trout.[/QUOTE]

lol why just me? Why not the other posts above me that argue on Microsoft's case? Look, this whole world is based on time, so your argument beforehand "I'd be pissed if Microsoft retroactively charged me for Family Guy pics I thought were free a couple years ago" would have you in the right and Microsoft being retarded. In this particular case, it was when the DLC was brand new, so there's no way it could have been on sale for the low low price of free, especially with a "big hit new release". Yes, they fall within the same realm of argument, but the difference is with timing.

Now don't get me wrong, it's kind of fucked up and stupid to use that as an argument, but logic dictates that it's the right mode of action. It's not like the DLC was been out for a while, it's not like the DLC was being promoted as free, the cold hard facts state that in this situation the OP was caught stealing. Now if the circumstances were different, say the DLC WAS free and Microsoft decides to change the price a few years down the line, then yeah, there IS legal action he can take. But Microsoft isn't stupid because that's illegal. Both parties in this case are doing something "illegal" but Microsoft was doing it to rectify a situation that was "unjust". Now we come down to the case of "Do two wrongs make a right?" But that's a silly argument, as is this one.


I guess he would have a case of false advertisement, but *shrugs* let's see how far he gets.
 
I really hope that some of the above responses aren't geared towards me. I have never ever been calling the Op out as an idiot or anything like that. In fact, I believe I even once said that his situation is really sucky.

And, to the people that say it's not the job of the consumer to stay informed, know this. Consumers have rights. One of those rights is the right to information. Therefore, companies must provide detailed info on their products. Which MS did. Now, it is your right as a consumer to have that info, but you may choose to not be informed, and waive that right.

Now, if the company has done everything correctly, and given the information you have a right to, and you said, "fuck it" and didn't read up on the product, wouldn't you say that you didn't do your job as a consumer, and that there is no fault for the company?

I can post an analogy if you guys would like (Everyone seems to like them a lot in here).

The above makes sense to me, and fits into this situation really well. Please, though, let me know if I misunderstood or overlooked something. Also, if you have a different take on anything, please post, as I'm no longer arguing to see what's correct, just to discuss this entire topic in general. Please don't be an ass or be insulting when you post however. I'm just trying to have some meaningful conversation.
 
You posting an analogy would be like an elephant building a house of cards-- very, very precarious indeed.

And if you're asking me if I called you out, I was not thinking of you with that post, no.
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']You posting an analogy would be like an elephant building a house of cards-- very, very precarious indeed.

And if you're asking me if I called you out, I was not thinking of you with that post, no.[/QUOTE]

God this makes me feel stupid, but . . . what does precarious mean in this situation?? Would you like an analogy, or are you saying don't bother?

I feel dumb.

EDIT: Well, I'm glad for the second part. I sympathize with the OP, but I just don't see how MS would be considered wrong legally.
 
[quote name='Mr Dude65']Please shut up. You obviously haven't read any of the last posts, as I think we all came to the conclusion that it's not even close to the same thing.[/QUOTE]

go tell your mother to shut up mammas boy
 
Definition of PRECARIOUS
1: depending on the will or pleasure of another
2: dependent on uncertain premises : dubious
3a : dependent on chance circumstances, unknown conditions, or uncertain developments b : characterized by a lack of security or stability that threatens with danger

I bolded the relevant definitions for the context I was shooting for.
 
[quote name='Crazyglitcher']Yes, it IS a scary thought that Microsoft can just take points out of your account. But what makes it LESS scary in this situation is that Microsoft CHOSE to charge him full price for what he bought. The DLC wasnt on sale or anything so they took what was rightfully theirs. It's not like they charged him an extra 200 points or something worse because he took advantage of their system, which they could have easily done. If they did that, then he would have legal recourse. But they charged the EXACT price everyone else (except for those who got away with it) paid for the DLC. Now it isn't a complete reassurance that they won't take your points without just cause, but in this situation it's completely fair. If one day, they do end up taking points out for no reason at all, then you can bring it up with the BBB but for now, since there IS a legitimate reason/pricing, Tough shit.[/QUOTE]

The OP clicked on something that said it was free. When he went to confirm the purchase, it still came up as free. Nothing ever said 800 points. Yeah, they took his points for a reason. The reason being that they screwed up. Again, if you think it's fine for them to take points from someone when they never agreed to pay that amount, I really don't know what to say beyond this. We're all concerned about this, because it sets a dangerous precedent for future "screw-ups," whatever those may be. "Oh, we released this game, and it bombed? Well, we made a "mistake" and priced it wrong. We need to take another 400 points from you. We can do that, because it's in our ToS."
 
[quote name='thegreek']go tell your mother to shut up mammas boy[/QUOTE]

Great comeback. I don't have any idea what my mother has to do with this conversation, but okay. I also don't know how you would have inferred that I am a mamma' boy from anything I've said, but if it makes the realization that you're an out-of-touch idiot just spouting anti-corporate propaganda easier to take by calling me that and making unfounded accusations and name calling, then I guess feel free.

EDIT:

To FoS: I see what you mean. I guess I won't post an analogy, even though I thought it was pretty good.
 
Assuming this played out as described in the OP, IMO Microsoft is clearly in the wrong. If something is represented as Free the consumer should not expect otherwise, even if the consumer believes it really should be another price.

I think the best analogy would be if someone partook in an obvious price mistake on BestBuy - $299 for a $2999 TV, for example. Then BB shipped the TV, charged your credit card for $2999 and then they told you that you could not return the item.

Since they are MS points, it might be legal for them to do something like this - but is it right? Clearly not.
 
[quote name='Mr Dude65']To FoS: I see what you mean. I guess I won't post an analogy, even though I thought it was pretty good.[/QUOTE]
I was just kidding with you bro. The humor in it was me criticizing, via an analogy, you posting an analogy.
 
[quote name='Pookymeister']Assuming this played out as described in the OP, IMO Microsoft is clearly in the wrong. If something is represented as Free the consumer should not expect otherwise, even if the consumer believes it really should be another price.

I think the best analogy would be if someone partook in an obvious price mistake on BestBuy - $299 for a $2999 TV, for example. Then BB shipped the TV, charged your credit card for $2999 and then they told you that you could not return the item.

Since they are MS points, it might be legal for them to do something like this - but is it right? Clearly not.[/QUOTE]

That analogy can't work. They're two totally different situations. This wasn't a simple pricing error. The correct price was there, but the OP couldn't see it because he was using something flawed to do his purchasing. I guess if you wanted to use a price error analogy, it'd be like if there were two price tags on the shelf that the TV was on. The TV is advertised at $2999, but when you get to the store, some jackass has put a $299 tag OVER the real tag of $2999 which is still there. Now, do you think that the store should sell the TV at $299 or not? I personally don't, as the real tag was there, and I knew the real price, but I was going off of misinformation with the error. Does this work and make sense?
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']I was just kidding with you bro. The humor in it was me criticizing, via an analogy, you posting an analogy.[/QUOTE]

Oh, I thought you were serious. Damn, that's pretty good. :lol:
 
[quote name='Pookymeister']Since they are MS points, it might be legal for them to do something like this - but is it right? Clearly not.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. The legality is meaningless. It might be legal, via something that is buried deep in their ToS. But what we're talking about is whether or not it's right. If you think it's right for them to do this, you're being a bit silly, in my opinion. Either eat the loss or have a way to revoke the license of the DLC. Don't take people's points when they didn't agree to it.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']The OP clicked on something that said it was free. When he went to confirm the purchase, it still came up as free. Nothing ever said 800 points. Yeah, they took his points for a reason. The reason being that they screwed up. Again, if you think it's fine for them to take points from someone when they never agreed to pay that amount, I really don't know what to say beyond this. We're all concerned about this, because it sets a dangerous precedent for future "screw-ups," whatever those may be. "Oh, we released this game, and it bombed? Well, we made a "mistake" and priced it wrong. We need to take another 400 points from you. We can do that, because it's in our ToS."[/QUOTE]

Like I said before, logic dictates it's all a matter of timing. Just read the previous post I made.

Whatever *shrugs*. Noone's going to change their opinion. I guess we're all a little stubborn that way. I'm going to stop wasting time and going back to doing what we all should be doing, playing videogames. I wish luck to the OP, but just wanted to warn him not to get his hopes up.
 
I know people have used excuse and example galore...but I have one.

You're at wal-mart and there is a sign that says "free magazine with purchase!" and you decide to get that magazine. You have to scan it for inventory reasons, but you purchase that magazine for free.

You check your bank later and see they charged you 4.50. And in the TOS for that promotion you read that they're not liable for mistakes.

OK, yea, even if they get away with screwing you out of that 4.50....THAT'S STILL POTENTIAL BAD PRESS!!!!

And I don't think anybody WANTS bad press. I'm on the border if I want the new Fallout. Reading this....plus all the bugs....I'm not too enticed to do so now. That's the power of press!

So M$ would be wise to just refund the purchase and invalidate the DLC so the user can choose to download it or not. Simple!
 
[quote name='Mr Dude65']Great comeback. I don't have any idea what my mother has to do with this conversation, but okay. I also don't know how you would have inferred that I am a mamma' boy from anything I've said, but if it makes the realization that you're an out-of-touch idiot just spouting anti-corporate propaganda easier to take by calling me that and making unfounded accusations and name calling, then I guess feel free.

EDIT:

To FoS: I see what you mean. I guess I won't post an analogy, even though I thought it was pretty good.[/QUOTE]

if you remember, you started with the name calling. Hypocrite.
 
[quote name='thegreek']if you remember, you started with the name calling. Hypocrite.[/QUOTE]

Touche, but mine was founded in fact. You are a dumbass. And I may be a hypocrite, but at least I'll admit it openly. You're just hiding under the "down with the establishment" facade.
 
[quote name='Mr Dude65']Touche, but mine was founded in fact. You are a dumbass. And I may be a hypocrite, but at least I'll admit it openly. You're just hiding under the "down with the establishment" facade.[/QUOTE]

OK, self-righteous d-bag.:)
 
[quote name='thegreek']OK, self-righteous d-bag.:)[/QUOTE]

See, here we go again. And also, it's not being self-righteous. It's being confident in myself as a person, and admitting what I really am. If you're uncomfortable doing so, that's fine, just don't try and change who I am. Kapeesh?
 
Would people still be bashing the OP if he bought the Fallout DLC for 400, and then later MS took an additional 400 points out of his account? To me, it's the same thing. Yeah, he got it for free, but it's the practice that matters. Microsoft is clearly in the wrong here, and I'm not sure why anyone would be defending them in this situation. It doesn't surrpise me that they did this, considering their renewal practices for XBL when they have your credit card information on the 360.

Also, a majority of gamers simply don't know that certain types of DLC is X amount of money. To say so otherwise is laughable. A lot of us do because we're hardcore, but even then, you can't be on top of everything. I would have assumed the DLC would have been 1200 points (15 bucks) and not 800 points. Most gamers don't go on Joystiq or Kotaku everyday to read about gaming news. They simply buy the games and play them.

I would bet my money that a lot of people could have gotten screwed on this, and potentially did.
 
[quote name='Mr Dude65']That analogy can't work. They're two totally different situations. This wasn't a simple pricing error. The correct price was there, but the OP couldn't see it because he was using something flawed to do his purchasing. I guess if you wanted to use a price error analogy, it'd be like if there were two price tags on the shelf that the TV was on. The TV is advertised at $2999, but when you get to the store, some jackass has put a $299 tag OVER the real tag of $2999 which is still there. Now, do you think that the store should sell the TV at $299 or not? I personally don't, as the real tag was there, and I knew the real price, but I was going off of misinformation with the error. Does this work and make sense?[/QUOTE]

How is it different? You say he used something that was flawed to make his purchase (the xbox website). If you take advantage of a price mistake at Best Buy that they ship, you are using their website too.

Your analogy doesn't cover the situation at all. It would if the person that stuck the $299 price tag over the $2999 worked at Best Buy and changed their registers to ring up at $299. The person then buys it, and walks out of the store with a receipt that says $299. Afterwards, he sees the credit card bill that shows $2999. :lol:
 
[quote name='Pookymeister']How is it different? You say he used something that was flawed to make his purchase (the xbox website). If you take advantage of a price mistake at Best Buy that they ship, you are using their website too.

Your analogy doesn't cover the situation at all. It would if the person that stuck the $299 price tag over the $2999 worked at Best Buy and changed their registers to ring up at $299. The person then buys it, and walks out of the store with a receipt that says $299. Afterwards, he sees the credit card bill that shows $2999. :lol:[/QUOTE]

This is not correct. I have tried to explain the difference since page 1, but there is no point apparently. If you guys refuse to make the connection, fine, but don't talk to me when MS screws you.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']There is no difference. Just because you think you've established a difference doesn't mean there is one.[/QUOTE]

And just because you refuse to even budge from your "position" doesn't mean that I'm not making ground.
 
[quote name='Mr Dude65']And just because you refuse to even budge from your "position" doesn't mean that I'm not making ground.[/QUOTE]

Digging a hole doesn't mean you're making ground.
 
[quote name='salty tbone']Digging a hole doesn't mean you're making ground.[/QUOTE]

And how am I digging a hole? I would seriously like this explained to me.
 
[quote name='Mr Dude65']Good point. I really don't have to sit here and waste my time with you guys. You can whine and moan all you want in here, but none of you are gonna do anything. Thanks for helping me realize this. Good luck with your time wasting![/QUOTE]

Ha.
 
[quote name='Mr Dude65']I know. Like I said above, I'm a hypocrite.:lol: Just couldn't help myself. :cry:[/QUOTE]

A self righteous hypocrite at that;)
 
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