Microsoft Bait and Switch for New Vegas DLC - Please discuss here

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[quote name='Friend of Sonic']K, etcrane. There could be a 500 million dollar marketing campaign marketing Halo 4 as 59.99, your friends talk about the 59.99 price, and your pastor gives a sermon on Halo 4 being sold for 59.99 but if you walk into Wal-Mart, have it run up as 9.99, and you pay the 9.99, it does not give Walmart the right to realize their mistake a few hours later and charge your credit card for another 50.00.

To everyone who thinks the OP got what's coming to them, respond to that above scenario and justify its legality and morality.
And Saint, I was about to say YOU brought up people being biased against Microsoft, but Bigdaddy is right. You're trolling to the nth degree.[/QUOTE]

But your example is flawed because you aren't using Walmarts download system to buy something and when you purchase something from Walmart you sign or provide cash. Did the OP sign something? No ... he didn't and it was free, not discounted. He may have had better luck if it came up as 400 because then MS may not have been able to change the amount. However, with it coming up free, it was an obvious glitch on a newly released item. A credit card charge at a retail store or even online store cannot be altered legally. However, if you ordered something with no charge and gave your credit card information, knowing that it was mispriced, then you are putting yourself in a potentially risky situation.
 
[quote name='Mr Dude65']Yeah, you're probably right. However, I don't think that telling someone to not have children is very sophisticated, either. Whatevs. I wish they would have just asked me to take out that one part, as the rest of the post made a very good point, and now that is all gone.[/QUOTE]
While I still believe what I said I will remove the post as it was somewhat childish of me. Apologies for that. I think your post just went a step further and so was removed.

The point you were making though is that he should have somehow known what the price was "meant" to be. First of all, there is no good reason he should have known what the price was supposed to be, and if it did indeed say it was free then that was the price at the time he got it. FREE. Whether or not he was taking advantage of an error is irrelevant.
 
He already said he wasn't sure if it was like previous Fallout DLC or Burnout DLC that was free. There are a wide variety of prices on XBL including free. Considering we just had two free games courtesy of Doritos, it's not far fetched to expect to get something free.
 
[quote name='depascal22']He already said he wasn't sure if it was like previous Fallout DLC or Burnout DLC that was free. There are a wide variety of prices on XBL including free. Considering we just had two free games courtesy of Doritos, it's not far fetched to expect to get something free.[/QUOTE]

I call bull .. sorry, but anyone with sense would realize it's not going to be free. No offense, but that means the OP is either lying to cover his ass or somewhat naive and stupid. The free Burnout DLC was hyped because it was such a rarity, everyone knew it was free and besides, not all of it ended up being free ... did the OP download the legendary cars pack and then flip out when it wasn't free too?

Please tell me when a Fallout expansion DLC has been free in the past and I will happily eat my words ... go ahead ... I've never seen the Doritos Fallout expansion, is that coming in January? ;)
 
[quote name='depascal22']What the fuck are you talking about, Saint? Personal responsibility? If you download something on xbox.com, it downloads on your xbox the minute you fire it up. Even then, the PRICE isn't in your active downloads queue....

Out of curiosity, are you from the Riverdale section of the Bronx?[/QUOTE]
So it's not in your best interest to double check to see if the price viewed on the website is the same as it is on XBox?

Yeah...let's not be responsible for our own actions, let's just blame the company for charging the amount they said they'd charge for the content.

And what if I fucking am? You looking to threaten me or something? The fuck does that have to do with this conversation or any discussion on the topic at hand?
 
[quote name='ShockandAww']While I still believe what I said I will remove the post as it was somewhat childish of me. Apologies for that. I think your post just went a step further and so was removed.[/QUOTE]

Thanks. I really didn't want to get into fights over this. I am just giving my views and opinions as is everyone in this thread. And my children will be diligent and informed consumers or die trying.

And to FoS, nobody's examples work with this scenario. It's so much different that it's really hard to compare something to what is happening in this scenario. The big thing with this scenario is whether it was retroactive or not. I'm not saying your walmart example is wrong, but it's not what's happening here. You see, when you buy Halo 4, the transaction is complete as soon as you get a receipt, and products are exchanged. However, in the scenario in this thread, nothing was exchanged before he was charged. Do you see what I'm saying? I hope I'm making sense, and please help me out if I might have misunderstood something. I'd very much like to discuss this, but in a civilized fashion without insults. I'm sorry if I insulted anyone earlier, as I spoke before thinking.

Looking forward to your response.
 
To clarify, while I can sympathize with the OP because he thought he got a good deal due to glitch, I think what annoys me is the fact that he posted in a manner that makes it seem like MS came into his house, killed his first born child and raped his dog ... and now he is demanding compensation. If it were more money, if it weren't something brand new, then I could understand the outrage. But it's $10 for DLC that just came out ... and it's a MS exclusive ... why in God's name would they be giving that away and have it not occur to you it's a glitch that might not pay off because you're playing in Microsoft's world when you buy LIVE content.
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']K, etcrane. There could be a 500 million dollar marketing campaign marketing Halo 4 as 59.99, your friends talk about the 59.99 price, and your pastor gives a sermon on Halo 4 being sold for 59.99 but if you walk into Wal-Mart, have it run up as 9.99, and you pay the 9.99, it does not give Walmart the right to realize their mistake a few hours later and charge your credit card for another 50.00.[/quote]
That isn't, nor has ever been the case in THIS current scenario.

The price is, was, and has always been 800MSP - the only one that failed to get this memo for a short window of time was the website that has been labeled in the contract we all agreed to and signed as being inaccurate - if maybe we bothered to read that contract before signing it we wouldn't have to endure whine fest topics such as these.

The dashboard said the price, but the OP instead chose to see only the "Free" on the website and hope that he could take advantage of the system while the rest of the community paid the full price of the DLC to obtain it - sound fair?

[quote name='Friend of Sonic']To everyone who thinks the OP got what's coming to them, respond to that above scenario and justify its legality and morality. [/quote]
Maybe if that scenario was actually in line with what happened to the OP I'd actually touch up on it, but it doesn't so it holds no bearing on this fucking discussion.

People and their habit to shoe-horn analogies that don't work to justify their line of thinking. It never fucking ends.

[quote name='Friend of Sonic']And Saint, I was about to say YOU brought up people being biased against Microsoft, but Bigdaddy is right. You're trolling to the nth degree.[/QUOTE]
...and?

I simply asked you what Nintendo and Sony have to do with this conversation when the topic has been and remains to be about Microsoft? So you two don't know what trolling is, nor do you understand line of reasoning and logic.

My point still stands that this topic is filled with those agreeing with OP because of their own bias and, perhaps, hatred of the company. Most of that hatred is irrational and unwarranted but it's the cool thing to do so people, like the mindless sheep they are, do it - and obviously anyone that doesn't do it must be some sort of fanboy.

So, until you can explain to me what Sony and Nintendo have to do with this discussion you have no right to call me a troll - if only because you don't know what you're talking about. Period.
 
[quote name='ShockandAww']While I still believe what I said I will remove the post as it was somewhat childish of me. Apologies for that. I think your post just went a step further and so was removed.

The point you were making though is that he should have somehow known what the price was "meant" to be. First of all, there is no good reason he should have known what the price was supposed to be, and if it did indeed say it was free then that was the price at the time he got it. FREE. Whether or not he was taking advantage of an error is irrelevant.[/QUOTE]

It is oh so relevant in this situation. The point is that even though there was an error on the website, official prices are on the dash and the correct price was listed there. Basically, what I get from MS is that the website is a representation of the dash online, and that it may be incorrect.

Here's an analogy for you guys who like them so much:

When Reach came out, there was a listing for it for 99,999 points on the website, but it was nowhere to be found on the dash. MS even told people not to try to download it because they wouldn't get to do it on the dashboard. Lets say the OP downloaded it anyways. So, would you be standing behind him saying that he should get the game?

Kind of the opposite scenario of what's happening here, but it makes sense, no?
 
[quote name='Mr Dude65']Thanks. I really didn't want to get into fights over this. I am just giving my views and opinions as is everyone in this thread. And my children will be diligent and informed consumers or die trying.

And to FoS, nobody's examples work with this scenario. It's so much different that it's really hard to compare something to what is happening in this scenario. The big thing with this scenario is whether it was retroactive or not. I'm not saying your walmart example is wrong, but it's not what's happening here. You see, when you buy Halo 4, the transaction is complete as soon as you get a receipt, and products are exchanged. However, in the scenario in this thread, nothing was exchanged before he was charged. Do you see what I'm saying? I hope I'm making sense, and please help me out if I might have misunderstood something. I'd very much like to discuss this, but in a civilized fashion without insults. I'm sorry if I insulted anyone earlier, as I spoke before thinking.

Looking forward to your response.[/QUOTE]

examplek.png

I used some kind of DLC from Madden as an example. As you can see, it is free. The screen also explains that upon purchase confirmation, which occurs on the very screen you are looking at, the system you download this to, along with all users on that system, will be able to use it.
You are quite literally purchasing this license, just as you would for 1 point, 80 points, 800 points. A purchase is a purchase.

I'm not trying to make a legal case. But c'mon.

[quote name='SAINTofSINS']
...and?

I simply asked you what Nintendo and Sony have to do with this conversation when the topic has been and remains to be about Microsoft? So you two don't know what trolling is, nor do you understand line of reasoning and logic.

My point still stands that this topic is filled with those agreeing with OP because of their own bias and, perhaps, hatred of the company. Most of that hatred is irrational and unwarranted but it's the cool thing to do so people, like the mindless sheep they are, do it - and obviously anyone that doesn't do it must be some sort of fanboy.

So, until you can explain to me what Sony and Nintendo have to do with this discussion you have no right to call me a troll - if only because you don't know what you're talking about. Period.[/QUOTE]
You said people were trying to justify their hatred of Microsoft, which this discussion was never about. I informed you if Sony and Nintendo was guilty of this, people would be just as upset.
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']
examplek.png

I used some kind of DLC from Madden as an example. As you can see, it is free. The screen also explains that upon purchase confirmation, which occurs on the very screen you are looking at, the system you download this to, along with all users on that system, will be able to use it.
You are quite literally purchasing this license, just as you would for 1 point, 80 points, 800 points. A purchase is a purchase.

I'm not trying to make a legal case. But c'mon.[/QUOTE]

Is the same content free on the dash? If it is, then we're still using a different scenario.
 
[quote name='Mr Dude65']Is the same content free on the dash? If it is, then we're still using a different scenario.[/QUOTE]
I don't know if it's free on the dash. I'm not going to check because it doesn't matter. The point of that image was to show that the license purchase happens at that precise moment and the points, if any, are taken at that point. The marketplace on the Xbox site is a valid way to purchase content, so you can't try to invalidate using the website versus the dashboard. Nothing, aside from some erroneous pricing errors, proves you saying that.
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']I don't know if it's free on the dash. I'm not going to check because it doesn't matter. The point of that image was to show that the license purchase happens at that precise moment and the points, if any, are taken at that point. The marketplace on the Xbox site is a valid way to purchase content, so you can't try to invalidate using the website versus the dashboard. Nothing, aside from some erroneous pricing errors, proves you saying that.[/QUOTE]

It does matter. You saying it doesn't matter isn't going to make it magically not matter. Microsoft runs Xbox LIVE, therefore, we have to follow their terms, and your reasoning doesn't.
 
[quote name='y2jasper']you are completely mistaken. once you click download on xbox.com, microsoft deducts your ms points (if its paid dlc) and you can't back out of the purchase in any way. if you went on the site and clicked to download something, even if you never turned your xbox on again you already paid for it and microsoft already deducted your account. hence m$ DID retroactively charge him since the transaction was complete.[/QUOTE]
If I'm mistaken about the cancellation of the download cancelling the transaction completely then I apologize.

But I'm holding my doubts about this being a retroactive charge of his account, nor do I buy that the OP should be compensated as then what do you do about those who purchased the DLC for the full price at the same time of this "sale"? What, tough luck for the fools that didn't see and take advantage of this "sale"?
 
[quote name='SAINTofSINS']If I'm mistaken about the cancellation of the download cancelling the transaction completely then I apologize.

But I'm holding my doubts about this being a retroactive charge of his account, nor do I buy that the OP should be compensated as then what do you do about those who purchased the DLC for the full price at the same time of this "sale"? What, tough luck for the fools that didn't see and take advantage of this "sale"?[/QUOTE]

That's a good point. If it were a sale, the price would have appeared that way on everything.
 
Please explain why it matters. Right now, the website marketplace is positioned as an equal to purchasing things on the dashboard. What makes the dashboard the superior form of marketplace purchase? Nothing, and until Microsoft comes out and says, "Listen guys, the website is a piece of shit so we can't promise any license you purchase online will be supported" the two forms of purchase are equal, and the OP's license that cost him 0 points should have been valid to retain the content without being retroactively charged.
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']Please explain why it matters. Right now, the website marketplace is positioned as an equal to purchasing things on the dashboard. What makes the dashboard the superior form of marketplace purchase? Nothing, and until Microsoft comes out and says, "Listen guys, the website is a piece of shit so we can't promise any license you purchase online will be supported" the two forms of purchase are equal, and the OP's license that cost him 0 points should have been valid to retain the content without being retroactively charged.[/QUOTE]

The ToS say pretty much all of that.

Quote:
MICROSOFT CORPORATION AND/OR ITS RESPECTIVE SUPPLIERS MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS ABOUT THE SUITABILITY, RELIABILITY, AVAILABILITY, TIMELINESS, AND ACCURACY OF THE INFORMATION, SOFTWARE, PRODUCTS, SERVICES AND RELATED GRAPHICS CONTAINED ON THE XBOX.COM WEB SITE FOR ANY PURPOSE.

This is copied directly from the ToS. Now, can you look yourself in the mirror, read that, and tell yourself that it doesn't fit this situation?
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']And what about that information from their ToS justifies charging someone a price they didn't agree to pay? Yep...nothing at all...[/QUOTE]

It says that the website where the purchase was made may not be correct and may not show the consumer the correct info, and it isn't a reliable source of information and that it isn't accountable for any mistakes made. Therefore, the Op technically agreed to purchase the item at whatever the "official" price was which was 800MSP.
 
I can because that is a blanket statement that doesn't really cover this situation. A few people have already addressed that intelligently-- the ToS doesn't give the right for Microsoft to break the law (is that what they did? I'd like to hear the drug keeper awayer weigh in on this) and also, my favorite example, "Microsoft could put in the ToS that it's okay to rape and kill you, but that doesn't mean they're actually allowed to do that." Or something along those lines, I'm too lazy to hunt for the post lol.

If you want to believe that Microsoft is a-okay because their ToS allows the website to be inaccurate, and you think this gives them the right to steal points from people, okay then. I guess I don't have anything else to say to change your mind.
[quote name='Mr Dude65']It says that the website where the purchase was made may not be correct and may not show the consumer the correct info, and it isn't a reliable source of information and that it isn't accountable for any mistakes made. Therefore, the Op technically agreed to purchase the item at whatever the "official" price was which was 800MSP.[/QUOTE]
I think you inferred that from nothing. I mean I'm sure that's why they made the ToS such a large, comfy blanket, but the ToS doesn't suggest anything like you're saying, no.
 
I can't believe how many people are missing the point of the issue here. The Halo 4 analogy was perfect. MS advertised a price, you can't sell something for one price (even if it is $0) and then charge someone another price. It's illegal in every sense of the world and shouldn't tolerated. It is also sickening that MS would admit that it was there fault and yet wouldn't rectify the situation. The is not a damned chance that if they weren't behind a phone of email they would be so bullish to toss this issue aside like some sort of novelty.
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']I can because that is a blanket statement that doesn't really cover this situation. A few people have already addressed that intelligently-- the ToS doesn't give the right for Microsoft to break the law (is that what they did? I'd like to hear the drug keeper awayer weigh in on this) and also, my favorite example, "Microsoft could put in the ToS that it's okay to rape and kill you, but that doesn't mean they're actually allowed to do that." Or something along those lines, I'm too lazy to hunt for the post lol.

If you want to believe that Microsoft is a-okay because their ToS allows the website to be inaccurate, and you think this gives them the right to steal points from people, okay then. I guess I don't have anything else to say to change your mind.[/QUOTE]

That's not what I'm saying at all. You should really work on information retention, as you seem to keep going back to posts that are almost irrelevant now, and not focusing on the full picture. Read my above post. Soak it in, and then read the posts before it. And for God's sake, quit with the analogy crap! It's bugging the Hell out of me!
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']
I think you inferred that from nothing. I mean I'm sure that's why they made the ToS such a large, comfy blanket, but the ToS doesn't suggest anything like you're saying, no.[/QUOTE]

No, that is what it says, in plain and clear English, and what it is meant to cover. The point of the ToS is to be a "nice comfy blanket". They're covering their asses.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']And what about that information from their ToS justifies charging someone a price they didn't agree to pay? Yep...nothing at all...[/QUOTE]
Actually:
MICROSOFT CORPORATION AND/OR ITS RESPECTIVE SUPPLIERS MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS ABOUT THE SUITABILITY, RELIABILITY, AVAILABILITY, TIMELINESS, AND ACCURACY OF THE INFORMATION,
Click to expand...
Just about covers that.

It's no justification, but a blanket statement to cover their ass that we all agreed upon. That and this:
11. Microsoft Points.

If you obtain Microsoft Points, you have obtained a limited license to a digital product. Points have no monetary value. You may not obtain any money in exchange for Points and no refunds are available for unused Points. Points may only be available for purchase in a few denominations. You’re responsible for any taxes that may result from your participation in the Points service. Points aren’t your personal property. You may only use Points to obtain the specific online services or digital products that we offer for Points redemption. The scope, variety and type of offers may change at any time and may be restricted based on your country of residence. We have no obligation to continue making Points redemption offers available.

You can purchase Points, or certain services may give you Points (“promotion Points”). You can earn promotion Points only for actions you complete. Promotion Points may expire at any time, as provided in the promotion. Your Points balance will be available on the Billing and Account Management website (https://billing.microsoft.com). We may cancel, suspend, or otherwise limit your access to your Points balance if we suspect fraudulent, abusive, or unlawful activity with regard to your Points balance. Once we delete Points from a balance, we won’t reinstate them, except at our discretion. When we cancel, suspend, or otherwise limit access to your Points balance, your right to use your Points balance immediately ceases. We will use reasonable efforts to investigate Points balances, subject to access limitations, and make a decision promptly. We may limit your use of the Points service, including applying limits to: the number of Points you may have credited to your Points balance at one time, the number of Points you may redeem within a given time period, and the number of promotion Points you may obtain in a single event.
Click to expand...
Note of interest in there is the deletion of points - or in this case, the removal of points - at their own discretion.

Again, only fair he pay the price of the content that everyone else was asked to pay, regardless of inaccurate information on their website.

[quote name='Friend of Sonic']I can because that is a blanket statement that doesn't really cover this situation.[/quote]
Except it does, whether you realize it or not - and whether you accept it or not. Any lawyer, professional or wannabe, can tell you in plain English what that line of text really means and how it can and does pertain to this scenario.

[quote name='Friend of Sonic']A few people have already addressed that intelligently-- the ToS doesn't give the right for Microsoft to break the law (is that what they did? I'd like to hear the drug keeper awayer weigh in on this) and also, my favorite example, "Microsoft could put in the ToS that it's okay to rape and kill you, but that doesn't mean they're actually allowed to do that." Or something along those lines, I'm too lazy to hunt for the post lol. [/quote]
That's not intelligent and that in no way works out.

Adding an extreme case scenario to justify ones logic doesn't make the line of reasoning correct. In this case, the given scenario only proves how out of touch with reality one side of this equation is.

One cannot place an illegal action inside of a contract and expect it to be upheld as it's breaking an already established law. The contract in that example would be completely illegal and wouldn't hold up in any court, regardless of how many Microsoft lobbyist bought congressmen or judges they had.

So no, that example doesn't really work nor does it benefit the side using it to their defense - it's asinine and stupid.

If you want to believe that Microsoft is a-okay because their ToS allows the website to be inaccurate, and you think this gives them the right to steal points from people, okay then. I guess I don't have anything else to say to change your mind.

[quote name='Friend of Sonic']I think you inferred that from nothing. I mean I'm sure that's why they made the ToS such a large, comfy blanket, but the ToS doesn't suggest anything like you're saying, no.[/QUOTE]
Except, it does, and it's almost in pure, basic, clean enough English that you can read it without translating any legal babel bullshit to draw its meaning. They aren't responsible for any inaccuracies and signing the contract states that you agree to that blanket statement - even if only legally.
 
[quote name='Mr Dude65']That's not what I'm saying at all. You should really work on information retention, as you seem to keep going back to posts that are almost irrelevant now, and not focusing on the full picture. Read my above post. Soak it in, and then read the posts before it. And for God's sake, quit with the analogy crap! It's bugging the Hell out of me![/QUOTE]
I'm sorry the paraphrase of someone else's analogy pissed you off so. The point is, I don't think the ToS would legally cover Microsoft in the case of theft (like murder)

And I'm not sure why you're accusing me not being able to retain information. I answered the question you asked-- if I was able to look at myself in the mirror. That post I made answers your question.

Saint, that's an interesting piece of the ToS you posted. Are you saying that purchasing a license for 0 points on the marketplace is "fraudulent, abusive, or unlawful"?
[quote name='Mr Dude65']No, that is what it says, in plain and clear English, and what it is meant to cover. The point of the ToS is to be a "nice comfy blanket". They're covering their asses.[/QUOTE]
No, we have a difference of opinion. You think the ToS covers theft. I don't. And I would like to see your assertion of the ToS' power hold up in a legal situation.
 
[quote name='Mr Dude65']It says that the website where the purchase was made may not be correct and may not show the consumer the correct info, and it isn't a reliable source of information and that it isn't accountable for any mistakes made. Therefore, the Op technically agreed to purchase the item at whatever the "official" price was which was 800MSP.[/QUOTE]

Um...no...that doesn't justify charging someone a price they didn't agree to pay. That would justify not giving the person the item they "bought," but it doesn't justify changing the agreement the consumer enter into, whether it was incorrect or not. By making a purchase, the consumer has entered into a legally binding contract with MS. That contract can be made null and void if they were was an error in the contract, but you cannot change the terms of the contract, if even the terms you want to change to were what you originally intended. But hey, thanks for playing...

bob-barker.jpg
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']Um...no...that doesn't justify charging someone a price they didn't agree to pay. That would justify not giving the person the item they "bought," but it doesn't justify changing the agreement the consumer enter into, whether it was incorrect or not. But hey, thanks for playing...

bob-barker.jpg
[/QUOTE]

The fact that you keep doing things like this last bit and the (...) at the beginning and end of your meant-to-be-insulting posts are just red flagging the fact that you're becoming insecure about your position in this argument. It's a common defense mechanism. If it bothers you so much that you may for once in your life be wrong, I'd avoid the internet for a few days.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I think the things you're doing are adorable and cute, but also extremely annoying and immature.
 
Well the bottom line is that if the OP is accurate he got screwed out of 800 MS points and it'd be great of them to just give it back.

Technically though as some have pointed out MS most likely has their asses covered and don't (again I'm talking technically) owe him a damn thing. In the ToS it says that MS points have no monetary value and if they suspect abuse of the points balance they can cancel, suspend, or limit your access to MS points.

This is irrelevant to the topic but the scariest thing in the ToS that I saw is this:
We may change the Service or delete or discontinue features, games, or other content at any time and for any reason (or no reason). We may cancel or suspend your Service at any time. Our cancellation or suspension may be without cause and without notice. Upon Service cancellation, your right to use the Service stops right away. Once the Service is cancelled or suspended, any data you have stored on the Service may not be retrieved later. Our cancellation of the Service will not alter your obligation to pay all charges made to your billing account.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']Um...no...that doesn't justify charging someone a price they didn't agree to pay. That would justify not giving the person the item they "bought," but it doesn't justify changing the agreement the consumer enter into, whether it was incorrect or not. By making a purchase, the consumer has entered into a legally binding contract with MS. That contract can be made null and void if they were was an error in the contract, but you cannot change the terms of the contract, if even the terms you want to change to were what you originally intended. But hey, thanks for playing...

bob-barker.jpg
[/QUOTE]

I guess we'll find out who really wins when we see how this is resolved huh? ;) Pretty sure no one is going to end up getting this DLC free ... if the glitch had lasted a day or more, then perhaps it would end differently ... but honestly, how many people do you think fall into the OP's situation ... not enough to actually do anything I'm afraid ... but hey, play again next week ... and have your pet spayed or neutered. Bye Bye?
 
[quote name='ShockandAww']Well the bottom line is that if the OP is accurate he got screwed out of 800 MS points and it'd be great of them to just give it back.

Technically though as some have pointed out MS most likely has their asses covered and don't (again I'm talking technically) owe him a damn thing. In the ToS it says that MS points have no monetary value and if they suspect abuse of the points balance they can cancel, suspend, or limit your access to MS points.

This is irrelevant to the topic but the scariest thing in the ToS is this:
We may change the Service or delete or discontinue features, games, or other content at any time and for any reason (or no reason). We may cancel or suspend your Service at any time. Our cancellation or suspension may be without cause and without notice. Upon Service cancellation, your right to use the Service stops right away. Once the Service is cancelled or suspended, any data you have stored on the Service may not be retrieved later. Our cancellation of the Service will not alter your obligation to pay all charges made to your billing account.
[/QUOTE]

No doubt. I agree totally, but I guess that's the price you pay for entertainment. Everyone's balls are in a vice this generation:cry:
 
[quote name='etcrane']I guess we'll find out who really wins when we see how this is resolved huh? ;) Pretty sure no one is going to end up getting this DLC free ... if the glitch had lasted a day or more, then perhaps it would end differently ... but honestly, how many people do you think fall into the OP's situation ... not enough to actually do anything I'm afraid ... but hey, play again next week ... and have your pet spayed or neutered. Bye Bye?[/QUOTE]

While I appreciate your sentiment, I would advise that you don't sink to his level. It's a slippery slope.

And also, I think the OP's $10 has been well spent considering this extremely stimulating discussion. You just can't buy this type of thing.
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']
No, we have a difference of opinion. You think the ToS covers theft. I don't. And I would like to see your assertion of the ToS' power hold up in a legal situation.[/QUOTE]

I would too.
 
[quote name='etcrane']I guess we'll find out who really wins when we see how this is resolved huh? ;) Pretty sure no one is going to end up getting this DLC free ... if the glitch had lasted a day or more, then perhaps it would end differently ... but honestly, how many people do you think fall into the OP's situation ... not enough to actually do anything I'm afraid ... but hey, play again next week ... and have your pet spayed or neutered. Bye Bye?[/QUOTE]

it was free for a few hours as i remember, also OP is the only person i've heard who got charged for it. i had put it into my queue for free, and i didn't download it to my xbox until a day later. my points were never deducted, and it shows up in my completed downloads. i've used my xbox a few times since then and no changes. so i don't know why OP was charged and others weren't.

anyway i think it boils down to this- OP was retroactively charged for the purchase since the transaction had already been completed. m$ covers their ass in their ToS though, basically saying they can do anything to your account, and we've all signed that. so if you take the ToS to be the highest power, it comes down to being ok. if it somehow went to court (for a $10 charge lol) it may not hold (consider for example how jailbreaking your iphone is against ToS, but court decision stated it's still legal to jailbreak your phone). in OP's case, it comes down to whether MS wanted to be nice or stick to their ToS (which they have every right to do, not going to blame them).

it is unprecedented for ms to actually retroactively charge for a glitch on xbox.com. i've ended up getting a few free dlc's from the site when they weren't meant to be free at all and later changed (although it was all preorder bonus dlc, i cant remember any paid dlc coming up as free by accident, so maybe thats why this played out diferently)
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']I'm sorry the paraphrase of someone else's analogy pissed you off so. The point is, I don't think the ToS would legally cover Microsoft in the case of theft (like murder)[/quote]
Can't be considered theft if in the TOS they cover that we don't own the property and that they reserve the right to remove or suspend our ability to participate further in the Points system.

[quote name='Friend of Sonic']Saint, that's an interesting piece of the ToS you posted. Are you saying that purchasing a license for 0 points on the marketplace is "fraudulent, abusive, or unlawful"?[/quote]
I'm not saying anything along those lines, only pointing out the facts as they are. We all signed the contract and we all should have some understanding of what it is we are legally binded by through our digital signature on said contract.

[quote name='Friend of Sonic']No, we have a difference of opinion. You think the ToS covers theft. I don't. And I would like to see your assertion of the ToS' power hold up in a legal situation.[/QUOTE]
Here's where the side that agrees with OP lose me: where is the bait and switch in this scenario?

Was the OP the only member of the entire community that was baited in with a "Free" purchase of the content while the rest of the community was informed of the price through numerous avenues, one of which being the XBox dashboard - and we've been over this time and time again - or were the rest of the community baited with the content price of "800MSP" while OP was the savvy consumer cruising around for the secret deal for the same content?

I truly fail to see how the one can outweigh the entirety of the community thanks to their own ignorance prior to purchase, nor can I understand the "sympathy" towards their plight when it only begs the question of what Microsoft should do in this one particular case while the rest of the community was fully aware of the price of the content, agreed upon it, and paid for it should they have wanted it.

This topic isn't about a bait and switch so much as OP failing to realize that the website information was inaccurate and that their points would be deducted for the transaction - in the same light it was for the rest of the community who made the same purchase.
 
[quote name='SAINTofSINS']

This topic isn't about a bait and switch so much as OP failing to realize that the website information was inaccurate and that their points would be deducted for the transaction - in the same light it was for the rest of the community who made the same purchase.[/QUOTE]

This situation is obviously not bait and switch, as that term refers to a very specific scenario where one product is advertised but actually never available but a more expensive alternative is. If what the op describes actually happened, you seem to be saying it is perfectly acceptable for a company to disseminate inaccurate information about their own product, which a customer reasonably relies on, and then keep the windfall. I think it's unfair to say a person should just know what the dlc is supposed to cost despite the fact that company selling it is listing it a different price. I didn't try to get this dlc, I don't play fallout. However, had I seen that it was free I may have downloaded it in case I ever decide to get the game. I don't buy much dlc so I have no idea what it typically costs. However, I would certainly rely on the information provided to me by the sellers own website. I do not believe a company can disclaim responsibility for providing inaccurate information about such a material term as price that is reasonably and foreseeably relied on by the consumer regardless of what their tos says.
 
It never ceases to amaze me at the douchbaggery of some people on this website. We all love getting things for free. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. This time it fell apart, and you got charged what you were supposed to pay for the dlc. Instead of taking it like man and owning up to the responsibility of getting caught with your hands in the cookie jar, some of you want to whine, cry, and blame MS for you not getting away with a fast one. Accept it for what it is and move on and shut the hell up already.

Between the crybabys in this thread and the ones that cry when they can't get games for free at Best Buy because the computer system catches the "glitch" and the manager won't override the system and let them have that free copy of X-Blades or whatever game it is at the time, there are just to damn many little bitches running around here lately. Seriously, I enjoy getting free shit just as much as the rest of you, but sometimes it just isnt going to work out. Get over yourself. Your measly loss of 800 MS points for DLC is NOT going to cuase the universe to implode upon itself and end all life as we know it. Then again, for some of you, it already seems like it has. That is ok, the rest of us will move on in life without you here to drag us down.
 
It's not about crying or whining. It's the fact that MS went into his account after the fact and took the 800 points they felt they were owed. Just wait until one of you has a similar story and everyone just goes, "Tough shit. Take it like a man, douche."

And Riverdale explains everything.
 
In principle, Microsoft is in the wrong. Unfortunately, they're legally in the right.

The argument that a consumer should be aware of varying and fluctuating prices is ridiculous. It is a company's responsibility to advertise a consistent price on every front, and not the majority of fronts.

If this were a credit card transaction, then Microsoft's actions would be illegal and your pursuit of recompense, even for such a small amount, would be more than justified.

Unfortunately, they didn't take money from you in any way. While the ToS can't allow them to commit illegal acts, it can legally define Microsoft Points and any limitations on them. The only thing you "bought" here were the points, but they're not a real form of currency. Microsoft can clearly and legally remove or add points from your account at any point, just as they can patch a game you've already bought and drastically change it. Whenever you initially paid for the points, you also consented to Microsoft taking actions with your points balance, which they did in this circumstance to correct their own mistake.

Sorry OP. I'd hate to be in your shoes, and it's more depressing than anything to read half of the comments in this thread. "You should've known better," or 'it's karma," or anything like that are completely moot points. Whether you're a completely informed douchebag or an honest, wholly uninformed gamer, you should only be charged what was agreed upon. Unfortunately, your points agreement predates this one.
 
I wonder what would of happened if you didn't have any points in your account?
This seems like a great reason to never have any points saved into your account and only redeem your points cards the moment your going to actually spend them on somthing.

Their are tons of FREE dlc And unless something is done about this situation at anytime Microsoft can just charge you any amount of points at a later date for any FREE dlc.

I would be pissed.
 
[quote name='nbradley1428']In principle, Microsoft is in the wrong. Unfortunately, they're legally in the right.

The argument that a consumer should be aware of varying and fluctuating prices is ridiculous. It is a company's responsibility to advertise a consistent price on every front, and not the majority of fronts.

If this were a credit card transaction, then Microsoft's actions would be illegal and your pursuit of recompense, even for such a small amount, would be more than justified.

Unfortunately, they didn't take money from you in any way. While the ToS can't allow them to commit illegal acts, it can legally define Microsoft Points and any limitations on them. The only thing you "bought" here were the points, but they're not a real form of currency. Microsoft can clearly and legally remove or add points from your account at any point, just as they can patch a game you've already bought and drastically change it. Whenever you initially paid for the points, you also consented to Microsoft taking actions with your points balance, which they did in this circumstance to correct their own mistake.

Sorry OP. I'd hate to be in your shoes, and it's more depressing than anything to read half of the comments in this thread. "You should've known better," or 'it's karma," or anything like that are completely moot points. Whether you're a completely informed douchebag or an honest, wholly uninformed gamer, you should only be charged what was agreed upon. Unfortunately, your points agreement predates this one.[/QUOTE]
^ This, but I'm glad the OP didnt just sit down and let them enforce that garbage without a fight even though he may have "agreed" to it.

I'll cancel my account and be sure to let them know I wont be buying another thing from their "service" unless this gets taken care of. They won't miss me (and I won't miss them) but it's about all I can do.
 
[quote name='Spyder187']It never ceases to amaze me at the douchbaggery of some people on this website. We all love getting things for free. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. This time it fell apart, and you got charged what you were supposed to pay for the dlc. Instead of taking it like man and owning up to the responsibility of getting caught with your hands in the cookie jar, some of you want to whine, cry, and blame MS for you not getting away with a fast one. Accept it for what it is and move on and shut the hell up already.

Between the crybabys in this thread and the ones that cry when they can't get games for free at Best Buy because the computer system catches the "glitch" and the manager won't override the system and let them have that free copy of X-Blades or whatever game it is at the time, there are just to damn many little bitches running around here lately. Seriously, I enjoy getting free shit just as much as the rest of you, but sometimes it just isnt going to work out. Get over yourself. Your measly loss of 800 MS points for DLC is NOT going to cuase the universe to implode upon itself and end all life as we know it. Then again, for some of you, it already seems like it has. That is ok, the rest of us will move on in life without you here to drag us down.[/QUOTE]
The point is not that he was charged or how much he was charged. It was the manner in which he was charged. To purchase something at one price and then retroactively be charged another is horribly wrong.
Spoiler for somewhat irrelevant story
I'll use an example of something that happened to me. I bought a piece of jewelry advertising it at 4.99. I got the piece of jewelry and it really was worth what I paid. Nothing fancy. They said they would be sending a piece of jewelry monthly and I would get charged a recurring fee monthly. Well nowhere did it say the fee (and trust me I searched). Next month rolls around and I get charged 79 dollars. You better believe I was calling their customer service (oh, wait it doesn't actually exist). I went to the BBB and got my refund and got them to stop service. A year later I saw another 79 dollar charge from them so I called and left a nasty message on their answering machine and reopened my BBB case and got my money back again. They hadn't even sent jewelry that time. I think they just decided to try charging people again in hopes some people wouldn't catch on.
Yes this is indeed a different case. But it's still frightening to think that Microsoft has the right to just go back and deduct points like that after the point of sale. That's my big concern in this whole debacle is that according to the ToS I can get my Microsoft points deducted at their discretion.

If I bought an iPad game that was free and had it on my computer ready to be moved to my iPad, but it was a mistake that it was listed as free and suddenly when I transferred to my iPad I got charged money from my paypal, I'd be pissed. I pick up free iPad games every time I see an interesting one.

Microsoft took the points after the point of sale. That's that and that's wrong and frankly scary that Microsoft thinks it's ok.
 
Do retailers define gift cards as value-less? This isn't a post designed to irritate anyone, I'm genuinely curious right now if most or any gift cards come with a ToS that define the funds on the card having no monetary value and that they have the right to deplete the funds from the card.
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']Do retailers define gift cards as value-less? This isn't a post designed to irritate anyone, I'm genuinely curious right now if most or any gift cards come with a ToS that define the funds on the card having no monetary value and that they have the right to deplete the funds from the card.[/QUOTE]

AMC movie theatre giftcard starts to deduct .50cents per month after 18months of non use.
So eventually they get to deplete your card if you lose it or forget to use it for over18months.

Mcdonalds giftcards says it cannot be redeemed for cash but their are no fees and never expires.
Can be redeemed for cash only when required by law. (whatever that means) maybe with receipt .Or only certain states that require the store to give you cash for your gift cards (california i think)
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']Do retailers define gift cards as value-less? This isn't a post designed to irritate anyone, I'm genuinely curious right now if most or any gift cards come with a ToS that define the funds on the card having no monetary value and that they have the right to deplete the funds from the card.[/QUOTE]

Gift cards are pretty heavily regulated at this point, laws very by state. For example, regardless of what some types of card say, some classes of gift cards cannot expire in California. There was actually a recent piece of legislation, the Credit Card Accountability Responsibility and Disclosure Act, that added pro consumer laws regarding expiration dates and fees. The new law doesn't cover things like reward certificates though. You shouldn't be too worried about a big box company taking all your funds, but make sure to read about possible fees. Besides, its big business and they generally wouldn't want to do anything to hurt sales. One thing you do have to be careful of in this economy is a store going bankrupt- I remember reading about sharper image gift cards when they went under. I believe in that situation you may have a claim against them as a creditor but you'd have to get in line.

I haven't researched it or anything, but I believe the type of virtual currency at issue here has not been subject to much litigation or legislation because its a new concept. It's my personal opinion that all MS points are is money because they have absolutely no other purpose but to buy things. I do not believe a court would uphold a companies right to take it away from you for whatever reason they feel like. I could certainly be wrong, I am sure there are arguments both ways, but personally I tend to favor consumer friendly interpretations.
 
[quote name='Pirate331']Was my explanation over your head? I will clarify: there was no sale.

MS can probably track everyone who purchased the DLC during the erroneous pricing and invalidate their content until they pay up. That's what should have happened. But acting like they're stealing from you is not the appropriate response either. You all know you were taking advantage of an error, and you got caught.[/QUOTE]

:applause:

Remember kids, vengeance is no recourse for one's own ignorance.
 
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