Nintendo DSi and DSi XL Out Now. "3DS" Showing at E3

Nintendo needs to be very careful with this whole multimedia/non-gaming functions with the DSi + piracy through the SD. They dont want to get PSP'd.

Though they have a significant hedge against it in that the DSi isnt a lesser version of a home console like how the PSP was a crappier PS2. The software is unique.
 
[quote name='Strell']You haven't made a single good point, J7. You've thrown out the same argument over and over and over without thinking for a second about the contradictory viewpoints.

I've already refuted what little you've had to say, and you continue to hide your head in the sand. So what's the point of having a conversation with a brick wall?

This isn't comparable to a new console launch.

Downloadable DSiware titles are not nearly on the same level as retail releases, just like their console cousins where even the biggest games are still hardly comparable to their retail counterparts. XBLA/PSN/Wiiware don't compare to what is on the shelves. Even the best digital download games still aren't comparable to a huge retail release.

Nintendo wants downloadable titles and they know they can make apps and so on - they know it's already the next big thing. But they also know that sales of those are trumped almost 100% of the time by retail releases.

You won't be seeing DSi-exclusive big titles until 2010 at the earliest, and even then, it'll be the latter half. Not even Nintendo has announced a big one. Third parties won't follow under after. DSiware doesn't count here.

Even if the DSi makes 7 million by the end of the year, that's not comparable to the DS userbase. It amazes me that you can't see that. You continue to portray it in this "they could be a big DSi name" as if that makes sense. It's not going to happen. Following it up with "its hardware enables new experiences" sounds a lot like the PSP. Nintendo isn't about power with their handhelds. Doesn't apply here.

The "core" crowd might buy the DSi initially, but Nintendo wants beyond them to buy it. That alone negates sending a game to die by making it exclusive to a smaller audience.

Saying "let's give them something they can't get anywhere else" goes 100% against what Nintendo wants to do initially. True, they are all about "experiences," but foremost they are about selling their ideas, and until that happens (which you can bet they will wait for), there's no reason to limit potential sales. It also goes against a third party initially because that's too big a gamble. Again, the fact that you can't see this is astonishing.

You're hiding behind this notion that "wah wah I just bought a DS and now Nintendo is making a new one" and now you're trying to justify that fear by saying you'll be left in the cold with "new experiences" and so on, when the only thing we've seen with the DSi that is new is another input method - the camera - and some downloadable "gamelets."

This doesn't feel like a new hardware release at all. It feels like a minor extension, just like everyone said when this was first announced last year. Even the diehard Nintendo fans know this, and some even lamented the fact that we're four years into the DS and Nintendo continues to babystep up the power.[/quote]
That reply is nothing but pure fuck. Sorry to say, but if you're going to act like such an fuck I might as well not get myself walked on. You simply don't want to hear anything I have to say. I never said anything about DSIWare being on the same level as retail releases.

I completely do see that DSi userbase at 7 million does not compare to DS/DSL at 100 million. I've stated that I understand that. You're the one making statements like 'if a DSi game could sell 7 million it would sell 14 million on DS/DSL'. I haven't said ridiculous BS like that. But you don't want to admit to any mistakes I pointed out that you made earlier, nor look at any points I try to make. There will always be publishers looking for the majority of sales in a smaller pool than competing with all the other publishers for the large pool. If no DSi only game that fully takes advantage of all its features is available, that leaves the market ripe for picking.

Nah, "it's hardware enables new experiences" applies to any upgrade in hardware... Somehow you only see exclusive DSi games being made as only possible if Nintendo does it. Nintendo doesn't have to do it first. The fact that Nintendo wants more than the core crowd to buy a DSi, doesn't change the fact that the core crowd will buy the DSi in greater numbers earlier than the casual crowd, which doesn't change the fact that the core crowd will be looking for the best and brightest or games that simply take advantage of the new CPU & RAM.

I'm not saying we're going to see tons of DSi only games right away. I am saying we will see some within a year. Yet you act like because I think that I cannot understand any point you try to make. DS games don't cost much to make, it's not a huge gamble to try and make an inexpensive game for a new hardware launch (not even a new hardware launch as I've stated end of the year/early next year).

I ain't fucking crying about it like you would like to make it out. I'm just saying it's unfortunate and wondering if anyone else is in my position, a person who just recently bought a DSL. I also said its not only Nintendo who does this and that it will be something all companies do in the future, it's the way the market has changed.

I like how you continue and continue to say shit like DSi has no advantage over DS accept DSIWare, which is 100% false. And now you've changed that to just camera and downloadable "gamelets". Continually trying to ignore the fact that it has a much better CPU and 4 times the RAM.

I came in here totally respectful and quite objective about my question to others, yet all I got was you antagonistically chewing my fucking ear off because it bit you in the wrong way so hard for some unknown absurd reason. I'd write more but I ain't got the time to waste. Basically, anything I say has 0.0% validity or possibility in your mind so why don't you quit the discussion and shut the fuck up already.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Nintendo needs to be very careful with this whole multimedia/non-gaming functions with the DSi + piracy through the SD. They dont want to get PSP'd.

Though they have a significant hedge against it in that the DSi isnt a lesser version of a home console like how the PSP was a crappier PS2. The software is unique.[/quote]

You don't honestly think the evil piracy is the PSP's downfall, do you? Because its 10x easier to pirate on DS and has been done since launch unlike the PSP that took maybe a year or year and a half to really allow the feature.

PSP game devs don't go for the crowd of snotty little kids or adults who don't know the real meaning of gaming and game quality and thus lose 50% of the market. PSP doesn't have Pokemon. Doesn't have quirky gay games that Japanese crowd dies for. And it has a higher starting price due to actually having good extra features beside gaming.

Why would 8-12 year olds get a "micro laptop" when all they want is to play Pokemon all day? And those peewees are the ones with mommy's money, so they get almost anything these days at whim. Adults work and thus don't care to throw cash around for lil pleasures nor do they care to have all-inclusive devices because they're ever so hard to use.

I personally enjoy PSP games' exclusion of the mentioned audience because people like me get to enjoy GOOD new games and perfect PS2 ports without being limited graphically or physically due to crappy new controls. Not to mention that 1.6GB can house alot more of a game than 128MB cart(and most are 32-64MB).
 
[quote name='mickeyp']I was wondering if the new DSi will have the same charger as the dslite?[/QUOTE]

Nope, it is a smaller connector.
 
[quote name='Skv012a']USB or propriatory?[/QUOTE]

Come now, Nintendo just made the SD port on the Wii useful, that just spent their tech goodwill for the next year.
 
[quote name='J7.']
I like how you continue and continue to say shit like DSi has no advantage over DS accept DSIWare, which is 100% false. And now you've changed that to just camera and downloadable "gamelets". Continually trying to ignore the fact that it has a much better CPU and 4 times the RAM.
[/QUOTE]

Much better CPU and 4 x the RAM? How does that translate to a different or better gameplay experience? How much CPU power does it NEED anyway, it's just a barely souped up DS. One can actually make the argument that the DSL has a big advantage over the DSi with it's GBA slot.

100% false? I don't think so.
 
Games on DS can't get any worse than they are now. Better CPU and RAM is useless since DS carts only allow 256MB tops anf I highly doubt nintendo will start fully utilizing that cap. Just face it folks- DS is for kids and mild gamers, not anyone above that.
 
Is the DSi internet browser going to resemble the Wii Internet channel? I've always had connectivity issues with the Wii internet channel (never had a problem with X360 wireless internet) and wondering if the DSi will have the same issues.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']If more power available gives us a scenario in which devs are making more crude 3D games, then the games may actually get worse D:[/quote]

I think FF IV looks amazing... would you consider it "crude"?
 
[quote name='keithp']Much better CPU and 4 x the RAM? How does that translate to a different or better gameplay experience? How much CPU power does it NEED anyway, it's just a barely souped up DS. One can actually make the argument that the DSL has a big advantage over the DSi with it's GBA slot.

100% false? I don't think so.[/quote]
CPU in a handheld is important. Look at the difference between DS and DSi CPUs:

DS has an ARM946E-S at 67 MHZ (which processes the 3D) while the 33 MHZ ARM7TDMI is 33 MHZ for 2D only and GBA. Quite possibly the ARM7TDMI is only for GBA since it is not in the DSi and is the same processor (though at lower speed) used in the GBA.

DSi has an ARM processor at 133 MHZ. Twice as fast as the DS's processor.

RAM is very important for graphics, AI, game engine. 4 times the RAM is a very large increase. 4 MB vs 16 MB. How would your computer do running a game if you doubled the speed of its CPU and quadrupled its RAM? You'd be able to play games that your older PC would not be able to and they'd look better as well. If these changes were not significant you would not see DSi only games being one of the 3 options available for developers. Not to mention that doubling the speed of low end CPU and increasing the RAM of low end amount of memory will get bigger gains relative to doing this to a higher end with the same ratios.
 
Would an increase in RAM translate to the possibility for higher quality textures? If so, 3D games could look substantially better.
 
Haven't the price of higher-memory cartridges gone down?

[quote name='Skv012a']Games on DS can't get any worse than they are now. Better CPU and RAM is useless since DS carts only allow 256MB tops anf I highly doubt nintendo will start fully utilizing that cap. Just face it folks- DS is for kids and mild gamers, not anyone above that.[/QUOTE]

Why are you still here?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='Skv012a']Games on DS can't get any worse than they are now. Better CPU and RAM is useless since DS carts only allow 256MB tops anf I highly doubt nintendo will start fully utilizing that cap. Just face it folks- DS is for kids and mild gamers, not anyone above that.[/QUOTE]

Why are you still here?
 
Sure developers can start using the new CPU and RAM in the DSi....and lockout millions of DS owners from playing their game. Smart?
 
I went to the DSi event yesterday at my local gamestop and asked the nintendo rep some questions. I am not sure if they have already been addressed but I don't feel like reading through every page.

-DSi supports SDHC up to 32gb.
-DSi will support launching games directly off SD card, like the wii does now.
-Every DSi will get 1000 free Nintendo Points/DS points if you connect to DSi shop before October.
-Opera Browser will be free as a download via DSi store if you connect to DSi shop before October.
(similar to how it was on the Wii, free for a limited time)
-He could not confirm any DSiWare launch titles except for the browser.
-DSi supports "Hot Swapping" of carts, you can pop in and out carts without having to turn it off.
-The power button acts like a home button, you have to hold it down to turn it off.
-DSi firmware is upgradeable(yay!)
-DSi only support AAC format for music :(
-DSi has different charger plug, so you will have to buy new accessories.

Hands on impressions
-Matte finish is very nice, no finger prints at all on it.
-Feels lighter and skinner than DS Lite.
-Buttons are very nice, the volume is an up and down click, not a slider.
-D-Pad and abxy buttons feel about the same.
-Photo and Sound applications are basically throw away.
-photo channel does support slide show mode which makes it a digital photo frame.
-New menu is very cool, and much improved over normal ds menu.
-Camera takes decent pictures for only being .3MP, seems like it is more for games than taking pictures though.
 
-DSi only support AAC format for music :(

AAC is better than MP3. Plus it would cost money to license the codec for MP3. If there's anything to lambast about the DSi Music Player is that it needs more features because it's too basic. Add a randomizing feature and creation of playlists and I'd be set. Hopefully Nintendo will follow through with a firmware update.

Don't forget setting the brightness is now done by holding down the Select button and pressing the volume buttons. It's no longer done through the DS menu.
 
Problem with AAC is flexibility. Many people don't have iPods. I have a couple Creative MP3 players (neither of which play AAC) and like keeping everything in that format since I know I can play it easily on any mp3 player I buy in the future (since I'll probably never buy an iPod).

Moot for me as I have no interest in a DSi and wouldn't use the bulky thing for music anyway if I did buy one.
 
The real deal breaker for me, interestingly enough, is the dpad. Diagonal movement on the DS lite pad is horrendous, so I'm hoping they've made improvements. Of course, the matte finish is a much needed improvement as well.

Not a day one for me, but I might pick one up later this year.
 
Anyone know if the DSi opera browser is capable of executing flash applications like youtube? I'm guessing, even with the boost of processor speed and ram, the videos will still remain choppy. (or it may not even be worth it as it probably won't fit on the screen)
 
[quote name='foltzie']MotzCTG - how did the blue look?[/QUOTE]
I am actually getting the blue one myself, however Nintendo only gave the Rep Black ones to showcase. I asked him what he thought of the blue ones, and he told me he got to see them hands on and he liked it alot. It is different, most people will most likely get black. I wish the lime one was coming out here.

Problem with AAC to me is that I think mp3 is the standard. It is how people distribute music to each other and what I think most people rip to. It is just a shame that nintendo wouldn't spring the extra bucks to include it. Although I will say I most likely wont be using my DSi as a music player, but I will most likely convert a few albums to put on my SD card just in case.
 
[quote name='blackjaw']Sure developers can start using the new CPU and RAM in the DSi....and lockout millions of DS owners from playing their game. Smart?[/quote]
Not for all games, but for some, like games not possible on DS and a developer going for the most sales in a smaller market instead of a medium amount of sales in a larger market with more competition. This was already debated in the past few pages. As time goes on it will be more and more lucrative and we'll see more and more games.
 
[quote name='Nohbdy']Creative? I thought Zunes were second to iPods.[/QUOTE]

Not in my mind. I love the Creative Vision M that I bought 2 or 3 years ago. But I never really looked into the Zunes since they came out after my last time of MP3 player shopping.

And I have an even older cheap, 512mb Creative flash player I use soley for listening while working out. Probably had it 5 or 6 years and have never had an issue with it.

Never had any interest in the iPod, costs more and does less (no FM tuner built in, etc.).
 
[quote name='J7.']Not for all games, but for some, like games not possible on DS and a developer going for the most sales in a smaller market instead of a medium amount of sales in a larger market with more competition. This was already debated in the past few pages. As time goes on it will be more and more lucrative and we'll see more and more games.[/QUOTE]

The key point here is "as time goes on" ... Once again the Gameboy Color provides the path forward the DSi will most likely take.

A few Nintendo games (maybe remakes) with DSi exclusive features followed by some third party games with DSi exclusive features. Nintendo will release the first game that is DSi only, and third parties will follow suit in some fashion. This process will take a few years and even then many if not most games will maintain DS compatibility.
 
Of course in my world, more power and more importantly, higher budget leads to a decrease in the quality of the game.

I'd rather see them with insane technological restrictions.
 
[quote name='Nohbdy']AAC is a standard and is a successor to MP3: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Audio_Coding#Standardization

If iPods, Zunes, and PSPs play AAC, then I fail to see how it isn't a standard, let alone a universal one.

Why would Nintendo pay to use an older codec when its superior successor has no licensing fees to pay?[/QUOTE]


To me, I could be completely wrong, mp3 is the more widely accepted standard. When people think of digital music they think of an mp3, not an aac. As http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mp3 says it is the de facto standard of digital audio compression. It may not be the best, but everyone knows what it is. But I mean it's cool that nintendo is supporting aac, just means I have to convert some music if I want to play it on my DSi.

But that is just me, not going to say any more about mp3 vs aac
 
Couldn't nintendo come out with an app to play mp3's. If nintendo doesn't exactly want to pay for the licensing fee to use the codec, then have the end user pay for it. Now it may not be built in, but the support is potentially there.
 
Nintendo could come out with an MP3 player and release it in the DSIware store, but its more likely to stick to using the free AAC standard.

Which as is most certainly mentioned here, is also the format of the iTunes store.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Wasn't MP3 compatibility added as an optional feature for the Wii? Something about updating your Photo Channel? I wouldn't say it's out of the question for the DSi.
 
Wasn't MP3 compatibility added as an optional feature for the Wii? Something about updating your Photo Channel? I wouldn't say it's out of the question for the DSi.

The MP3 compatibility was dropped. The Photo Channel now uses AAC.

Washington looks like it'll add $11.05 in taxes.
 
[quote name='MotzCTG']
-DSi only support AAC format for music[/QUOTE]
Great news. Seriously. Not having to convert my stuff to MP3 just to play on the DSi means I won't always have to carry around my ipod with me.
 
[quote name='Nohbdy']
If iPods, Zunes, and PSPs play AAC, then I fail to see how it isn't a standard, let alone a universal one.

Why would Nintendo pay to use an older codec when its superior successor has no licensing fees to pay?[/quote]
Because aside from ipod noobs, I rarely see anyone not using mp3 format everywhere. I haven't even come across a widespread mention of it until now and I get plenty of music weekly.

[quote name='Nohbdy']The MP3 compatibility was dropped. [/quote]
Way to use you ass nintendo! We need MORE ideas from it instead if your head!
 
Yeah gee. It's really too bad Nintendo doesn't make money these days. They should spend more time listening to 12 year old kids who pirate games and talk on message boards. When will they learn?
 
Way to use you ass nintendo! We need MORE ideas from it instead if your head!

Oh noes, let's spend money on older software instead of saving money on a free superior successor and not using the money towards developing our games!

Can you just fuck off already?
 
When I see Nintendo make a decent product, I will. I've dealt with DS hardware and software plenty to dislike it and DSi isn't looking any better so far.
 
[quote name='Nohbdy']The MP3 compatibility was dropped. The Photo Channel now uses AAC.[/QUOTE]
But anyone that originally had MP3 compatibility can go back:

Going back to Photo Channel 1.0
If you updated to Photo Channel 1.1, but have decided you prefer Photo Channel 1.0 (for instance if you'd rather have MP3 compatibility instead of AAC), going back is easy. All you have to do is select the Wii button from the Wii menu, choose Data Management, and select "Channels." Select the Photo Channel icon and confirm you wish to delete it. After that, Photo Channel 1.0 will automatically be available again from your Wii menu. If you ever change your mind, simply go back to the Wii Shop Channel and re-download Photo Channel 1.1!

http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/systems/wii/en_na/channelsPhoto.jsp#photo1.1
 
[quote name='Skv012a']Because aside from ipod noobs, I rarely see anyone not using mp3 format everywhere. I haven't even come across a widespread mention of it until now and I get plenty of music weekly.[/QUOTE]

I exclusively use AAC and I am not a "noob". Quite the contrary. AAC is ubiquitous in my household with the computers, ipods, car head unit, and most other devices able to play AAC without format conversion.

I don't know what kind of omniscience you have, but who you "see" using mp3 has no bearing on its popularity or utility.

I am not saying MP3 is terrible or that AAC is god, but they have reached a point where they are equivalent in the aspects of usability. However, one has a licensing fee and the other has higher sound quality. Older device/software compatibility and music pirating are likely the only things keeping MP3 in the mainstream.
 
bread's done
Back
Top