Pro Wrestling discussion topic--WWE, AEW, ROH, Impact, New Japan, indies

MSI Magus said:
I can not find it online yet but apparently WWE is posting some type of survey to fans asking for input on why the products viewership is dropping. Would enjoy filling that out if its not limited in who can.

@myke good luck on training mate! You will have to post a few pics later in your dashing ring underoos.
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The survey was an email blast. I don't believe it was sent out to everyone on the WWE email list, I never received it either. It's definitely interesting to see WWE trying to figure out why people aren't watching despite it not taking a rocket scientist to figure it out. They have also hired Dewey Foley as a creative team member starting in January and Noelle Foley is being looked at to be a backstage interviewer. I still say the biggest problem for years has been the inability to keep compelling storylines going for any period of time and having any pay off, prime example is every feud Bray Wyatt has ever had.

 
Rant:

If they want to start making positive changes the Royal Rumble is right around the corner. I'm sincerely hoping that Cena doesn't win. My money is on a NXT talent coming out on top. I don't know if he's ready or ever will be again but they could go with a suprised Bryan return as well. I've read that there are talks of a Lesnar/Owens match at WM at least. The issue in my eyes with the top of the card is that Sheamus and Reigns are boring. They don't interest me at all. Roman's maneuver base just lacks impact. I'm so sick and goddamn tired of the spear as a finish as it is. They saddle Sheamus with 3 other guys who have zero microphone skills and all lack charisma and "Fella"? That's a thing? Jesus.

They need to change Roman if they want to keep pushing him. He's wandering around looking like The Shield broke up but nobody told him. They need to make him dominate and look like a badass. Stop letting him talk and goof around; he simply cannot pull it off convincingly. Have him straight-up bulldoze over people. Change his finisher. Change his music and entrance. Make people believe this is a new Roman Reigns.

Out of all the members of the League of Nations, Barrett is the only guy that interests me and I think it's due to how many times he's been passed over or shoved aside. Giving him the King of the Ring hurt him, in my opinion. I've read that there's some serious heat on Lana for ruining the storyline with Dolph (which I'm happy for, as it was awful) but I feel she's the major reason why Rusev was being pushed so hard.

Del Rio and Colter make the most awkward combination in a long time, there's zero chemistry...and if you're going to make a "Mexamerican" flag, how about you at least get a 15 year-old with some photoshop skills and actually make a flag instead of lazily cutting two in half and sewing them back together.

They cart out Swagger because AMERICA...ugh. Let's just hope he stops using the Patriot Lock as he has no clue how to make it look the least bit convincing.
 
Dr. Venkman said:
Speaking of New Day, does anyone think this huge (and deserved) tag push could parlay any of the members into a successful singles run? If so, who and why?
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Yes and Big E. I love all three members of New Day and Xaiver Woods is one of my personal favorites in the whole company, but Big E is a guy who could be a main event player one day. The guy is arguably the strongest guy on the entire roster, he's incredibly entertaining on a multitude of levels, his great in the ring, and he can talk. Big E has the least experience in the business by far compared to Kofi and Woods, but you'd never guess that due to how good he is.

 
Sigma said:
Yes and Big E. I love all three members of New Day and Xaiver Woods is one of my personal favorites in the whole company, but Big E is a guy who could be a main event player one day. The guy is arguably the strongest guy on the entire roster, he's incredibly entertaining on a multitude of levels, his great in the ring, and he can talk. Big E has the least experience in the business by far compared to Kofi and Woods, but you'd never guess that due to how good he is.
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I recall when Big E debuted. I thought that the way they were pushing him they were intent on making him a top card guy right out the gate, it made perfect sense to me as well. But hey I guess it made sense to instead shove Rollin and his lack of Mic skills down our throat endlessly and give Cena a good run or two besides. I mean after all it did keep the Authority angle going for a year or two and isnt that what we all want?

It isnt just Big E though. There are so many people that they keep giving these false starts when they have the momentum to be top guys....I just dont get it. The one that boggles my mind the most is Dean Ambrose. He is over with the casual and the hardcore fans well enough and the guy was drawing big natural pops from the crowd when he was feuding with Rollins. It was clear they had the start of another Stone Cold style rebel on their hands for a few months there. Rollins had cemented himself enough he could take a loss, they could make that feud bigger AND build a new top guy. I just do not get putting all their eggs in 2 or 3 baskets over and over when the company has several guys that could be built up to carry the company. If they do not want someone like Ambrose, Cesaro or Big E to be THE guy, fine. But these 3 and a few others in the company are still more then capable of the responsibility of holding the strap for 1-4 months to change up and refresh story lines or carry the company when THE top guy gets injured.

 
I wish they would have just let Big E be the Big E from nxt. Undefeated unstoppable monster that pins people til 5. The WWE universe loves anything they can chant, sing or count along with. People would have on the main stage chanted 5 and counted along as he pinned people for the 5 count the same as they did in NXT. While im at it, I still do not get why Adam Rose was not left Leo Kreuger and put with the Wyatts. I feel when they bring people up from NXT it seems all too often if their schtick is working they get saddled with a new dumb one and if it isnt working they let them keep it.

I fear for Enzo and Big Cass if they ever get brought up to the main roster.....though if they left them as they are God watching Enzo cut promos against the New Day would be good.

 
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Is Enzo really actually good at promos? I Mean, really? I Like the team of Sawft enough and I don't mind them on the mic, but Enzo more than half the time (besides their ring entrance) is just incoherent pop culture babbling. I Don't mind it and it entertains me, but I would hardly say him cutting a promo is a highlight or gets me excited for anything.

 
I think he can pop a crowd, absolutely. His mouth and his look makes him GREAT to move to the Raw/Smackdown side of things, if/when they do, and be a *perfect* chickenshit heel - imagine him running his mouth against, say, Orton and then hiding behind Cass as the "muscle." Straight out of the textbook, sure, but it could work.

Dude is teeming with the right kind of charisma. Too often we see "charisma" on reality shows and people seem to think it means "acting like a total dipshit on camera." Enzo has the ability to say things, seemingly off the cuff, that flow and work, and keep you paying attention. That's like 90% of wrestling right there.

 
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mykevermin said:
I think he can pop a crowd, absolutely. His mouth and his look makes him GREAT to move to the Raw/Smackdown side of things, if/when they do, and be a *perfect* chickenshit heel - imagine him running his mouth against, say, Orton and then hiding behind Cass as the "muscle." Straight out of the textbook, sure, but it could work.

Dude is teeming with the right kind of charisma. Too often we see "charisma" on reality shows and people seem to think it means "acting like a total dipshit on camera." Enzo has the ability to say things, seemingly off the cuff, that flow and work, and keep you paying attention. That's like 90% of wrestling right there.
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I see money in big Cass too. Even if he is never a top card draw the guy has a decent physique and look. The problem that I see for the two of them are two fold though. First Cass while having a good height and build still falls into the tall/lanky not muscular/built//body builder type that Vince and HHH seem to have a hard on for. No matter how good the guy is with eh mic skills and his build he will be held back like Cesaro. Second you hit the nail on the head when you said Enzo has the ability to be off cuff and work and flow. Problem is the WWE does not let people be off script anymore. Enzo wont be sent out there with bullet points on what the WWE is trying to accomplish and then let to be himself.

One of the biggest issues the WWE has IMO is that Wrestlers are not allowed to be themselves or grow as entertainers because everything is so scripted and PC. Even some people whom I shit on for their mic skills like Seth Rollins I fully believe would likely do better if they were allowed to go out there and LIVE their characters.

 
In watching NXT while housecleaning earlier today, it's clear they're setting up Eva Marie and Nia Jax as a possible pairing like I suggested for Enzo and Cass. Eva Marie is a HEAT MAGNET. Oh man. She's stunningly beautiful and her mere presence gets a room into a chorus of venomous boos. I know folks think she can't work, but we gotta stop pretending that's relevant when someone gets heat like that. Good god.

Putting her behind Nia sets her up to be protected during matches if she can't in fact work (I'm no judge of that), and only adds to how much crowds want to dump on her. 

Also: Jordan and Gable are *absurd* as a tag team. Imagine those two versus the World's Greatest Tag Team.

 
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mykevermin said:
In watching NXT while housecleaning earlier today, it's clear they're setting up Eva Marie and Nia Jax as a possible pairing like I suggested for Enzo and Cass. Eva Marie is a HEAT MAGNET. Oh man. She's stunningly beautiful and her mere presence gets a room into a chorus of venomous boos. I know folks think she can't work, but we gotta stop pretending that's relevant when someone gets heat like that. Good god.

Putting her behind Nia sets her up to be protected during matches if she can't in fact work (I'm no judge of that), and only adds to how much crowds want to dump on her.

Also: Jordan and Gable are *absurd* as a tag team. Imagine those two versus the World's Greatest Tag Team.
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Reading comments at wrestling forums and news sites people just cant stand Eva Marie. She is the first person I have seen generate Vicki Guerro level heat since Vicki, and its just natural hatred too. Even if she cant wrestle(not judging her, stopped watching NXT before she debuted) her beauty and peoples latent hatred for her makes her a natural Valet. You can take the most over of wrestlers and strap her on as that persons valet and they would instantly be a heel.

 
Eva Marie is probably the perfect heel in the era of internet wrestling fans. Mostly that she's everything fans hate, which is getting a push based on not paying their dues (in their eyes) and really nothing super notable about them in the ring or mic besides looks. That Bayley match was just goddamn ridiculous in that you can feel the hatred from EVERYONE. It's been a long time since I seen a crowd so negative toward one person.

 
I'm so glad that we can all agree that she is $$$money$$$.

It's almost as if WWE captured American fixation with the Kardashians in the form of a wrestler.

 
bardockkun said:
Eva Marie is probably the perfect heel in the era of internet wrestling fans. Mostly that she's everything fans hate, which is getting a push based on not paying their dues (in their eyes) and really nothing super notable about them in the ring or mic besides looks. That Bayley match was just goddamn ridiculous in that you can feel the hatred from EVERYONE. It's been a long time since I seen a crowd so negative toward one person.
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Bayley say she LOVED that match and working with Eva though. She said something like it makes it so much easier as the baby face to be over and just focus on putting on a good match because you know everyone is just so intent and focused on hating Eva.

 
MSI Magus said:
Bayley say she LOVED that match and working with Eva though. She said something like it makes it so much easier as the baby face to be over and just focus on putting on a good match because you know everyone is just so intent and focused on hating Eva.
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I Meant more so the crowd. I Figured Bayley would be fine with it since the crowd wanted her to destroy Eva Marie so bad.

 
I am not into Eva Marie at all, but I don't hate her either. I hate how the WWE pushes her so much though, because it's clear Vince wants to use her for something big. Maybe pairing her with Nia will help her develop more? 

 
ludus said:
I am not into Eva Marie at all, but I don't hate her either. I hate how the WWE pushes her so much though, because it's clear Vince wants to use her for something big. Maybe pairing her with Nia will help her develop more?
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Granted she was working with Bayley, but she didn't look all that bad in that match. Eva has the potential to be a massive heel in the Diva's division. I don't love her either, but I am willing to give her a chance and she is working quite hard to prove the doubters wrong. Trish was terrible at first, but look where she went.

 
Trish also retired at 31. Eva Marie is 31 and hasn't done much in wrestling. I'm cool with her being on the reality tv show or as a valet, but in the ring she worries me. It would really suck if one of her botches hurts a good young wrestler.
 
Haas retired after having a meltdown at a live event, sadly we won't get to see a Jordan/Gable vs. Haas/Benjamin match anytime soon.

Gable is going to be a big deal in a few years, his in-ring work is fantastic.

I'm not a huge fan of Big E but maybe that's because I just hate his finisher too much. When I first saw him with Dolph I got flashbacks of Big Zeke with THE Brian Kendrick. 

 
KillerRamen said:
Trish also retired at 31. Eva Marie is 31 and hasn't done much in wrestling. I'm cool with her being on the reality tv show or as a valet, but in the ring she worries me. It would really suck if one of her botches hurts a good young wrestler.
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This is true, but she could still become good. I don't think Eva is nearly as bad as Kelly Kelly was.

I'm hoping that Raw tonight is full of surprises. Rumor has it major creative changes will take place tonight and with TLC on Sunday they definitely need to pull out all the stops. The short time between PPVs hasn't had much development in regards to matches for TLC aside from Roman vs. Sheamus. I also hope League of Nations get some kick ass entrance music as a group tonight.

 
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Dr. Venkman said:
Haas retired after having a meltdown at a live event, sadly we won't get to see a Jordan/Gable vs. Haas/Benjamin match anytime soon.

Gable is going to be a big deal in a few years, his in-ring work is fantastic.

I'm not a huge fan of Big E but maybe that's because I just hate his finisher too much. When I first saw him with Dolph I got flashbacks of Big Zeke with THE Brian Kendrick.
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The Marshmallow splash? I Just remember Jericho remarking how he was a fan of Big E's finisher because it felt like a giant pillow falling on him. Even than, I always mark out when Big E does his spear through the ropes onto whoever's on the apron.

 
Was finding lots of photos and articles on my internet news magazines(News360/Flipboard)this morning of people walking out of Raw during the Sheamus/Reigns main event. No way of verifying its true, but man it really does seem like peoples unrest with the product is starting to finally percolate, then again I have thought that before. I really hope egos can be set aside and they fix the product before fans force them to fix it.

 
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Well... There goes the theory that Sheamus cut his hair for the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie...

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Either that or he thought he was Bebop.

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Did anything ever come of that "Sheamus is in the Darth Vader costume" rumor from last year? Would have thought they'd be pushing that by now if it were true.

 
I thought he said something about him playing Darth Vader back in a commercial in the early 2000s. But he flat out denied having any involvement in the new Star Wars movies, so that means he's probably in them.

 
SOooooooo......

Jake the Snake seems to have a thing for Bray Wyatt. This video was posted to Youtube and removed within minutes but it is still up on Vimeo. Dropping the link for you guys to see for yourself. It is creepy... watch at your own risk.

https://vimeo.com/148543582

 
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Matt Young said:
Tyler Breeze now is essentially what Fandango used to be. As a fan of both wrestlers, that makes me sad.
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He's still in a program with Ziggler, right? That's not bad.

Fandango is in the "they're still employed?" portion of the company (the former "JTG wing" of the WWE, currently the "Heath Slater wing").

So they're not quite in the same place. Breeze has an armpiece and is still featured on tv. That's a positive thing for him.

 
Right, and Fandango was also paired with Summer Rae and was placed in a decent midcard spot originally. That's what I meant by Breeze being in the spot Fandango held when he first arrived.

Breeze was still involved with Ziggler as of Tuesday's taping, but Tyler's lost more matches than he's won. Breeze beat Ziggler at SS and also pinned R-Truth and Zack Ryder. I think that's it. I made that post last night after watching Ziggler pin Breeze in less than 4 minutes on Smackdown.
 
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I suppose. I don't really think that wins and losses matter so much these days as opposed to whether you get tv time or not (and if so, where that is). Adam Rose being on NXT isn't a "reward," and if you skim the roster, there's loads of talent who you're like "woah, I forgot they work here!" - and we're talking capable wrestlers (Curtis Axel, Damien Sandow, etc.).

Breeze is fine. Nobody really pays attention to wins and losses on Raw or SD anymore. Also, flip the coin: have Ziggler job in 4 minutes. the IWC would complain that he's being depushed and WWE just doesn't want to do anything with him.

It's wrestling: someone has to go over, and you can't please everyone. More often than not it seems that, with the IWC, you can't please any of them ever, unless every tv match is a 30 minute Kevin Owens/Daniel Bryan mat classic where both of them go over. It's an impossible task.

When Breeze is on Superstars putting over someone in the first match on that show, we can talk about future omens. For right now, he's fine.

 
mykevermin said:
I suppose. I don't really think that wins and losses matter so much these days as opposed to whether you get tv time or not (and if so, where that is). Adam Rose being on NXT isn't a "reward," and if you skim the roster, there's loads of talent who you're like "woah, I forgot they work here!" - and we're talking capable wrestlers (Curtis Axel, Damien Sandow, etc.).

Breeze is fine. Nobody really pays attention to wins and losses on Raw or SD anymore. Also, flip the coin: have Ziggler job in 4 minutes. the IWC would complain that he's being depushed and WWE just doesn't want to do anything with him.

It's wrestling: someone has to go over, and you can't please everyone. More often than not it seems that, with the IWC, you can't please any of them ever, unless every tv match is a 30 minute Kevin Owens/Daniel Bryan mat classic where both of them go over. It's an impossible task.

When Breeze is on Superstars putting over someone in the first match on that show, we can talk about future omens. For right now, he's fine.
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Well said! Breeze hasn't been on the main roster more than a couple of months and hes been featured on both Raw and Smackdown every week since his debut. When Breeze isn't being booked on PPVs or the main shows, then we can talk about how poorly he is being booked. I can't tell you the last time I have seen Fandango wrestle on a show that wasn't Main Event or Superstars in probably over a year now, that's a guy closer to getting future endeavored more so than just about anyone else on the roster.

 
I did say twice already that Breeze is currently in a similar position to where Fandango used to be in his career, not where Fandango is at now.
 
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