Pro Wrestling discussion topic--WWE, AEW, ROH, Impact, New Japan, indies

Ryback isn't very good... He has hurt people (like CM Punk) because of it and I don't feel he has really improved enough in his 12 years with the WWE to be making such demands. He's also not young enough to spend a few years in Japan like Festus/Luke Gallows to improve and come back.

His best bet would be to reconcile and be more of himself like at Payback. Otherwise there are plenty of better wrestlers ready to take his spot.
 
For the sake of discussion, I'm interested on focusing what he's saying instead of dismissing his points because we don't care for the performer.

Suppose this was Neville or Tyson Kidd (or Cesaro for the bulk of his career) saying this instead if that helps.

Some of y'all are also equating in-ring skill with card placement, and that's not the song most of you sing the majority of the time, to be quite frank.

 
He brings up a fantastic point. Merch sales will pad someone's bottom line if they're popular, but storyline dictating pay is ridiculous. We know how often Sami Zayn wins (as an example), not a lot. He's a lovable loser as his defining trait, and the fact that would impact his pay is nuts. Ryback has pretty good credibility with his stated PPV record with a sub 40% win percentage, he's been at the top and the bottom of the card and can testify to the variances. I want to like him, but find it hard due to his injurious history.

I see Cage posted that he agrees with Ryback. I wonder if this will get a ball rolling.

I wonder if Adam Rose was re-emboldened to post the doctor letter after Ryback made such a commotion when rumor was that Rose was backing down due to the massive heat his first statement brought.

 
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This is likely just reiterating some sentiments already expressed, but: I don't see a problem with how wrestlers are paid in relation to their exposure/card placement, but instead with how that exposure/card placement is determined. Pay absolutely should be determined by someone's position on the card, but someone's position on the card should in turn be determined by their skill. So yeah, pay should be proportional to 'skill' (by which I mean ability to get themselves over) - but that's not how the WWE works. It's an imperfect system resulting in a seemingly arbitrary pay structure.

Either way, Ryback is the worst person to 'expose' this, because even in the ideal system he wouldn't be getting paid more. The most interesting thing the dude has done in a long time is mock CM Punk, who coincidentally actually had both the skill and business sense to be highly successful despite this flawed system. 

 
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I hate the idea of letting my perception of a person as a wrestler influence how sensible or not their arguments/concerns are. The worst wrestler (IMO) of all time could bring up the concerns of WWE using wrestlers as "independent contractors" and yet restricting where and when they work in promotions (i.e., they aren't actually independent contractors).

Ryback is a muscle guy who works a muscle guy style, and our sacred hero CM Punk buried the shit out of him on Cabana's podcast. One person burying the guy doesn't actually make the critique true. I haven't suddenly had an epiphany where I think he's a wonderful in-ring technician (but my modest training thus far has given me a huge appreciation for The Miz that I didn't have before) - but there is a certain core competency that any wrestler has to have to get to WWE. Yes, that bar is a lot lower if you have the non-skill-based characteristics WWE is looking for, but come on.

I respect anyone willing to speak their mind, anyone willing to speak to ask for better working conditions. Even if their absence on WWE tv isn't something I'd particularly miss. Whether that's Ryback asking for fair wages, or Rene Dupree asking for Network royalties (even though that's legally nothing that holds water per his contract, it's ethically something WWE should do).

 
I just don't find the guy to be very credible and his argument that his pay is based on a sliding scale doesn't seem to match up with reality. Forbes has written from time to time about the structure of their contracts and from my understanding how much a guy makes is determined on the base pay agreed to by the parties, bonuses from PPVs and merchandise.

The average WWE wrestler makes $500,000 base pay before bonuses. John Cena makes the most at $9.5 million and Dean Ambrose makes $1.1 million. Then you have a guy like Big Show who I don't think has won a singles match in a PPV since WrestleMania 31 and he still makes $1.5 million. Then when I look at their margins, which I think we've talked about before, and they are very modest. WWE doesn't make a ton ($24.1 million in profit in 2015), but how much they make is pretty consistent year to year. So based on that I don't think anyone is getting ripped off. Sure, $500,000 is less than what an average guy makes in the NFL, but a wrestler has a longer career with more earnings potential after they leave. They are also allowed to perform in other acting roles outside of WWE, so long as it doesn't compete with their work in the WWE. Like Sheamus being in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2. Given their salary and that they agreed to it, I don't really have a problem with a non-compete clause.

I just don't have a great deal of sympathy for a guy like Ryback who probably makes well over $600k and says he is fine with how much he's being paid. I just don't see what he's upset about if that's actually the case, but since he's holding out for more money or something, I can only conclude he's not being honest about that. I see this as a contract dispute for money that he's going to lose because he needs the WWE much more than the WWE needs him.

I may not be a huge fan of the Cena character, but even I can admit that he has improved quite a bit over the years. Ryback (in my view) hasn't improved his in ring skills or his character very much in 12 years. Personally, I think Ryback and Cameron have been given plenty of opportunities, but they haven't really taken full advantage of them. To me he just seems to be upset that the new to the WWE guys, like Dean Ambrise, are surpassing him and there are more newly signed guys who can easily take his place. I just don't think he'll do better outside the WWE monetarily and selfishly I'd rather see a guy like Samoa Joe take Ryback's main roster spot.

Maybe he's right and the structure of his contract isn't fair, but he's a big boy and he agreed to being paid only $600,000+ a year. If he thinks he can do better somewhere else, then he should go for it.

 
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KaneRobot said:
I can't stand Ryback, so I'm just fine with this latest development.

Also, "Cameron" tweeted in response to what he posted, saying something like "AMEN!!"

You know Cameron. Remember her? She was one of those girls that did the thing for a while.
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Coming soon: WWE wishes Cameron the best of luck on a stripper pole in her future endeavors.

 
Cameron was/is delusional. She thought the "girl bye" thing would, you know, be A THING and it never took off. Then she attempted to convince people that she could sing. *shudder* I've subjected myself via YouTube and it isn't pretty.

She has gotten a little better in the ring but I think it's a case of too little, too late for her to be main roster material again. Then again, there's people like Summer Rae who just exist and get paid and people like Eva who make money because she has red hair.

Good on Ryback, best thing I've ever seen out of that guy. He knows he isn't well liked and being a sacrificial lamb for the sake of a light being shed on a more equal or fairer pay structure down the road is to be admired.

 
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mykevermin said:
I hate the idea of letting my perception of a person as a wrestler influence how sensible or not their arguments/concerns are. The worst wrestler (IMO) of all time could bring up the concerns of WWE using wrestlers as "independent contractors" and yet restricting where and when they work in promotions (i.e., they aren't actually independent contractors).
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Don't get me wrong, I think it's important to talk about. I'm just saying his argument won't get taken seriously or lead to any meaningful industry-wide discussion, because it's not some workhorse underdog making the point. It's someone who does not have charisma or ability to get himself over despite multiple opportunities, and therefore will just seem like a non-issue since he is the one complaining about it. Which seems like the case thus far, because I'm pretty sure we're the only ones talking about it. I'll be glad to eat my words if this actually does lead somewhere, but I feel like it will take some more reputable peer support before it will.

In other news: Steve Austin tells Simon Gotch, "I'm not eating your ass out." :rofl:

 
fuck you, don't try to steal my dreams.

I guess the post I made elsewhere about also finding concept albums about Mantaur, Brock Lesnar's Chest Tattoo, the Hulk Hogan Sex Tape, and Kurt Angle's HGH head would have been more appropriate, then.

 
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Sielanas said:
No they didn't.

Adam Rose deleted his protest posts. Massive pressure I imagine.
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They did! I'd love to see the documentary. I wonder how long ago it was filmed and why it never has been released, I'd also like to know what hand Prince had in it.

Adam Rose and Konnor's suspensions are still really odd to me. Neither had been busted for anything illegal and Rose seems to have a legit case with his suspension. I hope both guys end up coming back alright, it's not like they could be much lower on the card then they already are.

 
"Replica Batsuit — Michael Keaton era design, built to scale, matte purple finish."

I'm sure there's some remarkable music in that collection, but for some reason that's what I want to see. Well, that and the Transformers concept album.

 
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Sigma said:
They did! I'd love to see the documentary. I wonder how long ago it was filmed and why it never has been released, I'd also like to know what hand Prince had in it.

Adam Rose and Konnor's suspensions are still really odd to me. Neither had been busted for anything illegal and Rose seems to have a legit case with his suspension. I hope both guys end up coming back alright, it's not like they could be much lower on the card then they already are.
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Pretty sure I read that article is a hoax.

 
Yeah it was. And it's going to be hard for whatever's actually in there to live up to the fake post - but I'm not ruling it out.

I onginally only saw the Koko news which seemed plausible enough, since Prince is weird and Koko did originally come out to "The Bird" when he debuted in the WWF. If I would have seen the Transformers concept album thing at the time, I wouldn't have been as convinced it was legit.

 
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tonyxvx said:
Don't get me wrong, I think it's important to talk about. I'm just saying his argument won't get taken seriously or lead to any meaningful industry-wide discussion, because it's not some workhorse underdog making the point. It's someone who does not have charisma or ability to get himself over despite multiple opportunities, and therefore will just seem like a non-issue since he is the one complaining about it. Which seems like the case thus far, because I'm pretty sure we're the only ones talking about it. I'll be glad to eat my words if this actually does lead somewhere, but I feel like it will take some more reputable peer support before it will.

In other news: Steve Austin tells Simon Gotch, "I'm not eating your ass out." :rofl:
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He's more of a Rusev fan. On today's podcast he talked about Rusev no longer listening to Austin's podcast after what happened at Wrestlemania and he said "I'm going to call your ass up on the phone and I'm going to have to eat your ass out because I need your god damn support"

 
DT778 said:
He's more of a Rusev fan. On today's podcast he talked about Rusev no longer listening to Austin's podcast after what happened at Wrestlemania and he said "I'm going to call your ass up on the phone and I'm going to have to eat your ass out because I need your god damn support"
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I can't tell if he knows what that actually means and doesn't care, or just flat out doesn't know. I hope it's the latter, and everyone just has too much respect for him to tell him. I also hope there's someone on tumblr who creates a fanfic for each instance he's said it.

 
Someone has to have told him by now but he's probably stuck to his sayings. Either way I hope he keeps saying it because it was hella laughs when I heard it today.

Here's another one.

Austin received a telephone call from McMahon as Austin was in a Macy's dressing room trying on shorts for Broken Skull Challenge.

"I have Vince listed in my iPhone 6 [as] 'VKM', all capital letters," Austin recalled. "All of a sudden, 'hmmm... it's Mr. Vince McMahon calling me', so I'm thinking, 'okay, I got to answer the phone - he's either calling to tell me it was a great interview with Paul Heyman, we blew the internet up, or he's going to call and eat my ass out about making a match at WrestleMania 32 with Brock Lesnar', which was not my intention. It was the latter."

 
Before everyone starts talking about the Cameron cyber-bullying rant, I just want to add my two cents:
tumblr_nbz2samKOv1rnjfjfo1_r1_400.gif

 
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tonyxvx said:
Before everyone starts talking about the Cameron cyber-bullying rant, I just want to add my two cents:
tumblr_nbz2samKOv1rnjfjfo1_r1_400.gif
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Nia did this at the tapings actually. Did her leg drop on Bayley and held like normal to get a count, problem was Bayley was on her belly and the ref just stared like "what" until Nia realized it and got up.
 
Torito gone too. APPARENTLY THE MIDGETS REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED

Alex Riley gone. I wonder if he's "raging."

Zeb Colter gone. That's no way to treat a veteran.

Santino gone. Had no idea he was still on the payroll.

Cameron gone. How many "Girl Bye" tweets is she getting right now?

 
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Wade Barrett is also gone. He had informed them he would not resign his contract which expires in June and granted him an early release from his contract.
 
mykevermin said:
Cameron wins, y'all. "I have nothing to say to you except give your mother my love when she comes downstairs with your dinner."
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Not really, since it it leaves her wide open to a bevy of "your mom is here to serve us" retaliation posts.

Good riddance.

----

The Barrett thing is kind of too bad, I did like him but he also always seemed to be missing something (besides an injury-free body) that stopped him from going anywhere. Several times I though he was going to break through, both as Nexus leader against Cena and when they replackaged him as the cage fighter guy. The BNB thing always came off like a weird Conan O Brien recurring sketch character that didn't really translate to being an actual wrestler, so I wasn't sure how far that could actually carry him. But that was probably as over as he ever was, so what do I know.

 
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I don't wish Cameron any ill will, but that rant of hers will not help her get dates in the indies or help her get to Japan. The people buying those $500 front row tickets, buying replica belts or just watching Raw are responsible for her way of life up until now.
 
Damien Sandow has been released as well. For some reason, along with the first 4 names, social media kept saying Summer Rae had been released. I've seen no proof of that.

MushaOne said:
No, Darren Young yet? Also, I kind of thought we would see Adam Rose on the list.
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Darren Young just got a new life coach on Smackdown!
 
Apparently Damien Sandow was released. There was a dude that people loved and the WWE pissed away. This is the only release that really bothers me, since we already knew Barrett was walking away.

 
I really like Damien Sandow too. Hopefully he keeps at it because I think there's something there that he should pursue. I also think he would make a great manager since I think he's more entertaining on the mic than in the ring.
 
mykevermin said:
Eh. I don't get wishing someone hit the unemployment line.
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Where are you pulling this from? I didnt read any one on here wishing someone was fired...

Sandow being gone sucks. He made the classic mistake of getting over on his own, and at the expense of the Miz. Shocked he lasted as long as he did.

At least there are at least some options for wrestlers to go now, Japan, LU, RoH. I would list TNA, but with the problems they have paying people, you would be better off unemployed.

 
I don't need anyone to lose their job, but I also don't need yet another entitled, arrogant, attention-seeking idiot raising a stink about compensation when she pretty much sucked at her job. She strikes me as someone who would just be flat-out unpleasant to be around (same for Hornswoggle, actually, but he sort of filled a role in the company, at least for a while). So I'm not going to be filled with much sympathy.

Now Sandow, fucccck that. That dude at least seemed to be a really nice and pretty humble guy who committed the horrible crime of getting over too much without the company's approval. Feel bad about that one.

Damien Sandow was arguably the most over good guy in the company less than a year and a half ago. Jeeeezus.

 
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Now we're attributing personality traits to people we don't know in order to celebrate or wail and moan about releases?

Please. We don't know *any* of these people in real life.

It stinks that any of them lost their jobs, but that's the reality of the biz. They'll find something somewhere sooner than later.

 
Apparently NXT was in Kansas last night and they had Tyler Breeze vs Shinsuke. I really hope someone recorded it, I really want to see it.

 
I loved Sandow as Miz' stunt-double.

-

Strange to see all of my favorite wrestlers in WWE now.

I really only watch TNA via the clips on their YouTube page.  The Decay is really the only interesting going on right now.  (A faction of all misters!?)

WWE should swap out Strowman with Abyss immediately.

EC3 as a babyface feels wrong.

 
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I wonder what creative was thinking when they brought Coulter back in a pairing with Del Rio. It didn't fit, it didn't make sense, it didn't go anywhere and it just evaporated. Why not just bring him back and push Swagger again? Create another Real Americans stable?

I was expecting to see Swagger on that list but perhaps they have plans with him. 

Barrett is a sad story; it's like winning King of the Ring killed any push he hoped of having, then he joins the league only to get kicked out weeks before they break-up. What's the point in all that? 

I too was blow away that Santino was still on the roster, same with Torito and Swoggle. Hornswoggle overstayed his welcome for FAR too long.

Sandow was the true heartbreaker of the the bunch. His situation reminded me a lot of Ryder's where he got over despite what the company had planned for him. From everything I've read he is a really humble, generous, down to earth guy. I hope he finds success elsewhere and makes a huge name for himself.

Alex Riley reminded me of that kid next door that really wanted to be a wrestler and just didn't look the part. Growing his hair out with that beard just made him look gross and generic.

There are 5-7 people I would have cut from the roster over Coulter and Sandow but that's just how it goes I guess.

 
Finally watching Wrestling Dontaku (stupid new job interfering with my watch schedule), I wonder why the Jr tag belts went to Roppongi for one month, I don't see New Japan caring about speculation on Ricochet's future and changing for trolling-sake.
 
They could still cut:

Adam Rose
Curtis Axel
Darren Young
David Otunga
Fandango
Heath Slater
Jack Swagger
Konnor
Titus O'Neil (good guy with charities, but...)
Tyler Breeze
Viktor

 
Dick Tracy said:
They could still cut:

Adam Rose
Curtis Axel
Darren Young
David Otunga
Fandango
Heath Slater
Jack Swagger
Konnor
Titus O'Neil (good guy with charities, but...)
Tyler Breeze
Viktor
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Some of these have pretty dedicated followings, I doubt WWE would be that stupid. Adam Rose I can see, and maybe the Ascension dudes. The only other possibility is Swagger, who I feel like if he was going to get cut would have a long time ago. Someone backstage must love the dude.

Otunga will be kept on just so that when he goes to events with his wife WWE can go "Hey hey look! We're relevant!"

 
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All of Ryback's merch has been moved to the sale section of the WWE Shop. That can't be good.

Who had Slater and Young as the last standing members of The Nexus?

 
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