RPG Thread V is really...grindy

I've been interested in a few PS1 games on the PSN (mainly Grandia & FFVII) and putting them on my PSP. However I don't own a PS3. I have a couple friends who do own a PS3. I wouldn't mind buying it if I could play it on my PSP. Could someone explain how this works?
 
You can use your PC to download games and transfer to the PSP. I believe with a newer update you can even download directly from the PS store to the PSP.
 
Yeah, what daschrier said. No need for a PS3. Also, what version PSP do you have? Depending on what it is, you might even be able to put homebrew on it (look up Popsloader) and rip your own PS1 collection to PSP compatible format. Never done it myself, though I was considering it with Chrono Cross but apparently there are some issues with the disc swapping aspect of that game last I checked.

AFAIK, pops can be used on anything other than the Go. Borderline between piracy and homebrew, so I won't discuss any more, just a heads up.
 
I got a 2000 series, not sure about the firmware. What do I download the PSN games to? The memory stick? Do they take up a lot of space?

Sorry about all the stupid question. I don't have my PSP yet, it's still in the mail.
 
Gave up on Resonance of Fate. I got to Chapter 6. Almost quit after the "protect the statue" chapter, but stuck with it a little longer. Its an ok game, and the combat is cool, but it starts to get tedious real fast. In the first 10 hours of playing (or however long I played it) the combat didn't change at all. Same party members, same guns, same strategies. I just couldn't commit to 10 more chapters of that with all the other good stuff out there to play. Oh yeah, and at that point in the game, you don't know jack shit about the story so I couldn't even tell you what its about. I guess all that comes later in the game.
 
[quote name='depascal22']You can download games directly from the PlayStation Store to your PSP but it takes forever.[/QUOTE]

About how long? We talking hours or minutes? And since I don't have a PS3 how does it work? I'm assuming I need to create somekind of account online.
 
Depends on the file size but some demos take up to 20 minutes to download. I can't give you a great time estimate because I usually close up the case and leave it alone when I download something directly onto it.
 
Yeah Rod, never done it personally (used PS3 instead) but I'm pretty sure u can DL to the card using your PC, which should be much faster than the PSPs crap speeds.

Also, all that grinding paid off! I finally beat Holy Servant (aka, huge fucking dragon that AOE's after every round...6th try, and an hour long fight!). Which means... I can now GRIND THE NEXT BATCH #-o Seriously, the grinding area starts with one group of enemies, but they stop giving stat boosts, so you have to fight this fucking dragon that is just insane, just so you can go to the next area where the best grind-worthy enemies in the game are. An apt thread title indeed...
 
I got my PSP last night and played around with it. Yeah, you can download games straight from the PS network over WiFi. The demos I downloaded took about 8 minutes. Not too bad. Did they have this feature 3 years ago cause I don't remember doing this with my old 1000-series model.

Now I have to figure out weather to get Grandia, FFVII, or Wild Arms 2. I'm leaning torwards Grandia, but then I never did beat Wild Arms 2..... :whistle2:k

Anyone know how good/bad PSP games look like on a TV? I got a 60' DLP and was afraid it might look like ass. Kinda like when I hooked up my GBA Player to play FFVI. It looked and sounded like garbage. Of course the PSP is more advanced but still curious.
 
[quote name='Midguy']In the first 10 hours of playing (or however long I played it) the combat didn't change at all. Same party members, same guns, same strategies.[/QUOTE]
It starts to change a lot and you have to decide whether to use dual pistols/MGs or distribute it, whether to go for Tri-Attacks or not. The role of pistols changes from full damage to deciding whether to gauge break, wheter or not you want to trade off ammo for accuracy on your gun, and the enemies start to have some really crazy armor where you might want to pistol first... etc. etc.
 
[quote name='Rodimus']I got my PSP last night and played around with it. Yeah, you can download games straight from the PS network over WiFi. The demos I downloaded took about 8 minutes. Not too bad. Did they have this feature 3 years ago cause I don't remember doing this with my old 1000-series model.
[/QUOTE]

No, back when they first had PSP demos on the PSN you had to do it through the PS3 I believe, then they brought it to the PC, and then finally right from the PSP.
 
I'm somewhere in chapter 11 of XIII, but I've shelved it for now. Seems like for every thing I like about that game, there are 5 I can't stand. Figured it was best to put it down for a bit instead of trying to push through to the end.

Picked up Resonance of Fate instead, and I'm -loving- that game. Awesome turn-based battle system, tons of character customization, a unique setting and lots of opportunity to explore and do side-stuff. It's kinda the anti-FFXIII. ;)
 
I still have Resonance of Fate and haven't touched it. Maybe I'll start it up tomarrow since I have the day off. FFXIII left such a nasty feeling in my stomach that I didn't feel like starting RoF yet. But being the "anti-FFXIII" sound like a good thing.
 
[quote name='Rodimus']Anyone know how good/bad PSP games look like on a TV? I got a 60' DLP and was afraid it might look like ass. Kinda like when I hooked up my GBA Player to play FFVI. It looked and sounded like garbage. Of course the PSP is more advanced but still curious.[/QUOTE]

No idea, but I'd be interested in this as well. I assume they'd look like the PS2 ports of Jak, Ratchet, and GTA PSP games, ie, like muddy shit.

I've got the OG PSP, so that's not an option for me, but I'd love an "excuse" to get one with vid. out if it looks halfway decent.
 
SMT: SJ is pretty brutal with the bosses. Which path did you take Josh? I'm not sure how differently each path is, but Neutral was pretty brutal at some parts. I'm at the final boss, but (s)he is completely destroying me. I guess I need to do some fusion stuff to get the right resistances on some of my demons, but I'm still trying to conserve macca for NG+. I did make a Shiva of which I'm rather proud though; Absorb Phys/Gun, Reflect Fire, Null Lightning/Expel/Curse.

I've had some horrible syndrome with RPGs lately, in that I'll play for hours and hours until the final boss, and then I'll just stop for a while. I did it with FFXIII and now I'm doing it with Strange Journey.
 
I'm on the light path. I still have the beat Maya. Just beat Tiamat yesterday, I think, after a dozen tries.

The paths are pretty different. I spoiled things a little bit for myself, but
the bosses for the dark path are completely different than for the neutral/light paths.
 
[quote name='Nirron']I've had some horrible syndrome with RPGs lately, in that I'll play for hours and hours until the final boss, and then I'll just stop for a while. I did it with FFXIII and now I'm doing it with Strange Journey.[/QUOTE]

I've been doing the same thing. I think end bosses are usually super disappointing if you've been grinding and doing all the side quests.

Blue Dragon did that to me. I struggled more with some of the side bosses and then got the end boss and the game didn't know what to do. I was technically beating the boss in the segment where you're not supposed to be doing damage so I basically had to sit around for the second cut scene and then whoop the boss in two turns. Super disappointing after putting 100+ hours in.
 
I only have trouble getting through big non-linear RPGs like The Witcher or Dragon Age.

Excellent games, but it's a type of game design that I just really have a hard time getting through. Whenever I load up my game I just feel lost, unimportant, not engaged in the story, and overwhelmed with options. If I put work into it I eventually get hooked, but when I say "work," that's exactly what it feels like.

Whereas a game like FFXIII I plowed through in 45 hours within 4 days. Haven't gamed like that in a long time.
 
[quote name='ChibiJosh']I'm on the light path. I still have the beat Maya. Just beat Tiamat yesterday, I think, after a dozen tries.

The paths are pretty different. I spoiled things a little bit for myself, but
the bosses for the dark path are completely different than for the neutral/light paths.
[/QUOTE]

You still have a ways to go, so quite a bit of play time left. Heck, you technically haven't "locked" your path in yet. I've managed to remain spoiler-free through pretty much the whole game, but I have been tempted to see the Chaos route. I almost wish I had gone that way as well, since most of my best demons are Chaos. As it is right now, I don't get a lot of co-op attacks with the MC ever since I stopped using my Jack duo + 1 random other (Black Frost/Frost Ace/random other)

I have ended up grinding way more than I intended to with this game though. I'm at level 93 right now, 95% Analysis completed with about 75% of the Compendium filled.

@depascal: Glad to know I'm not the only one :p I usually am disappointed by game endings, so that could be part of it. I do tend to burn myself out on RPGs though, so it may just be an over saturation of playtime on my part.
 
I think that's it. Beating a boss in an action game like God of War makes more sense. You've got the right amount of power, items, magic, etc. to struggle a bit but ultimately finish him off.

RPGs give you a couple dozen sidequests to finish, ultimate weapons and super powered summons to find but have to keep the difficulty down for people that don't want to grind the last 20 hours to defeat some hidden dungeon. Why?

People are going to grind and do all the side quests if they're getting to the boss anyway. Why not make the end boss stronger? The final boss (in his final form) should be the baddest mofo in the entire game.
 
Because grinding, by and large, appeals to the minority of players. So why not put the challenge in the sidequests and keep things balanced for the main play through (as most games do) ? Everybody wins.
 
[quote name='depascal22']
People are going to grind and do all the side quests if they're getting to the boss anyway. Why not make the end boss stronger? The final boss (in his final form) should be the baddest mofo in the entire game.[/QUOTE]
Personally, I prefer the second-to-last boss being the most powerful.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Putting 45 hours into a game in 4 days is more than work.[/QUOTE]

45 hours in 4 days is nothing, as long as it isn't FFXIII.

Last bosses in RPGs have been underwhelming pussies, with the exception of SMT games. The most satisfactory last boss I fought was Lucifer in Nocturne.
 
[quote name='panzerfaust']Because grinding, by and large, appeals to the minority of players. So why not put the challenge in the sidequests and keep things balanced for the main play through (as most games do) ? Everybody wins.[/QUOTE]

Grinding is usually inevitable unless you use a FAQ.

I'm saying that many people that pick up any RPG that isn't named Final Fantasy go in with the knowledge that there will be some grinding. They also know sidequests are mandatory if you want to see everything.

I'd say that people that are new to RPGs won't get to the point where the world map opens up and you get real freedom. Who wins if the developers cater the games to them?

I'd be happier if the final boss had a variable difficulty. If I walk in with five characters at level 99, make the boss have ten times the hit points or have his magic attack double. Do something that makes the game somewhat challenging instead of making me set up two save points so I can continue questing with one and beat the game with the other.

The SMT games seemed to solve this by making sidequests mandatory. Persona 4 basically says you can play this game through but you're not getting anywhere if you don't spend time making relationships. It was way more clever than than your standard RPG that takes through 90% of the game and then tells you that the final boss/dungeon is in this spot but you can go get ultimate weapons and beat hidden bosses if you wander around like in 99% of standard JRPGs.
 
[quote name='Nirron']You still have a ways to go, so quite a bit of play time left. Heck, you technically haven't "locked" your path in yet. I've managed to remain spoiler-free through pretty much the whole game, but I have been tempted to see the Chaos route. I almost wish I had gone that way as well, since most of my best demons are Chaos. As it is right now, I don't get a lot of co-op attacks with the MC ever since I stopped using my Jack duo + 1 random other (Black Frost/Frost Ace/random other)
[/QUOTE]
I've started only choosing demons with the same alignment as me.

[quote name='The Crotch']Personally, I prefer the second-to-last boss being the most powerful.[/QUOTE]
I agree.
 
Minor spoilers for assorted games follow.

An overly-difficult end-game is one of the worst god damn things ever. I love end-games when they're done well. Metroid Prime 3? Awesome. Nice and fast-paced, gave you powerful weapons, made you stronger while still maintaining a constant feeling of "threat". Half-Life 2? Awesome! Fast! Gave you a ton of armour and a ton of health and a super-powerful weapon, more than compensating for the hordes of elite troops thrown at you. Mass Effect 2? Awesome. Again, fast-paced, made you feel totally in control. Then take, say... GUN. Not an RPG - I seem to suck at giving RPG examples in the RPG thread, but fuck it, it's a great example of this, so we're using it. Slow as a motherfucker, and the final boss made you feel like a total wuss.

So... what?

A good end-game is two things. First of all, it is tightly paced. The first three examples? Fast. GUN? Slow as a cannon mounted on a railcar (If you can see what I did thar.). Making the endgame the absolute hardest part is a great way to slow it right down. Nothing kills momentum like having to reload.

Second, a good end game makes you feel... well, it should make you feel kinda badass. "fuck yes! I just performed an abortion on a planet!" "fuck yes! I am an awesome squad leader!" "fuck yes! I just killed five people by throwing the corpse of one of their teammates at them!" fuck yes, I just took out Sephiroth like fuckin' nothin'. fuck yes, I just destroyed Mother Brain like an angry momma bear. fuck yes, I finally showed that bastard Vizier who's boss.

Not, "Oh, Christ, this son of a bitch just ain't going down!" That's what Meta-Ridley is for.

EDIT: Obviously, this is not a universal rule, and I make exceptions for certain games. Like I Wanna Be the Guy. Holy balls, The Guy is a bastard. He can block bullets with his eyebrows.
 
Crotch is right.

Making the last boss harder means grinding will be required, which sucks. Also, if you do all that grinding and get all the special weapons, put in a lot of time and effort, and the last boss can still stomp you, that sucks. You should at least be able to feel powerful after all that.
 
I agree, grinding before the end boss totally ruins the pacing. If you don't grind at all, you should still be able to beat the end boss, but it should be difficult. I almost always do my sidequesting after I beat the end boss, if at all.

I had to grind so much in Persona 3 I completely forgot what the story was about by the time I beat it. I still don't know why I liked that game.
 
[quote name='depascal22']I'd be happier if the final boss had a variable difficulty. If I walk in with five characters at level 99, make the boss have ten times the hit points or have his magic attack double. Do something that makes the game somewhat challenging instead of making me set up two save points so I can continue questing with one and beat the game with the other.
[/QUOTE]

But then you essentially have one of the biggest issues people have with FF8 and The Last Remnant: enemies that level up with you. You don't really feel any sense of accomplishment for all the insane time and effort you put into grinding. If you don't grind your ass off, many end bosses are a challenge, but in a way it makes sense that if you do put all the work into reaching that level cap with the ultimate weapons, that you can easily handle the "boss".

Storywise it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but this is why most games include an equivalent of Ultimate Weapon type enemies. Even if you grind an insane amount, they are still a challenge.
 
Beat Dragon Quarter at something like 12:30 last night. Still love the battle system, but god damn I hated the saving system. I had run out of Save Tokens and, after a few deaths, got through the last four and a half hours of the game in pretty much one stretch.

[quote name='LostRoad']A lot of the odd little things about the game are because its a survival rpg. Only one of its kind I think. I really enjoyed the game, I think I made it to rank 36 or 24 not sure which. Don't bother storing to much stuff because it won't carry over you get to pick a few items but that's really it.

Not sure if you have looked at a guide yet, but towards the end of the game you need to start letting loose with your dragon powers or it just starts getting to crazy on your first playthough ( for bosses at least ).[/QUOTE]
I didn't use SOL at all, and tended to sell a lot of the equipment I came across in the dungeons. Thanks, though!

And I don't look at guides unless I'm really stuck (or have beaten the game already and want to see what I missed), but I did find that out about the dragon powers. Aside from some early D-Dashing and one of the fights against
Bosch (the one where half of his face is grey and his body is all fucked up)
, I avoided the dragon powers and went into the final dungeon with my percentage in the fifties. It was over 90% by the time I was done.

Also, was there any way to change the leader character? I noticed field abilities for Nina and Lin in the manual, but couldn't figure out how to use them.

[quote name='StarKnightX']I just beat it and already I want to start another game either to go for a more "complete" game (skipped a bunch of sidequests and the celestial weapons and stuff when I played) or to try a more challenging game such as a SCC or a NSG challenge. [/QUOTE]I actually did that with FFX-2, in part because I was about 12% away from 100%, but I never did get very far in that playthrough. Keep telling myself I'll do a fresh New Game + sometime in the future...

As for final bosses and grinding, I have to agree with Crotch, pete, and illingsworth. Sometimes you don't want to do the sidequests - maybe they look dumb, or you just don't have the time, or whatever - before facing the final boss. A good final boss is challenging if said sidequests aren't done, and if the latter are, well, you're doing them for the challenge anyway. It's a decent compromise.
 
I like having easy end bosses in games, especially in RPG's. I don't like grinding and I have enough problems finishing long RPG's and the last thing I need is to hit a road block on the last boss (not that I can remember that ever really happening). When I get to that point, I usually just want to finish the game and see the ending. If I can't beat the last boss, then there's a good chance I won't play the game again, simply because I don't like grinding.

The only game I remember having to grind for before the Boss in recent history was Persona 3 but that's wasn't such a big deal because I was so far behind the curve that I got tons of quick levels easy by taking out enemies that were way too tough for me in the bonus dungeon area. Also, that game was awesome.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Why second to last? Isn't it kind of a let down if the next boss is kind of a pushover?[/QUOTE]

I am assuming you didn't like Demon's Souls last boss (if you played that).


[quote name='Zmonkay']But then you essentially have one of the biggest issues people have with FF8 and The Last Remnant: enemies that level up with you. You don't really feel any sense of accomplishment for all the insane time and effort you put into grinding. If you don't grind your ass off, many end bosses are a challenge, but in a way it makes sense that if you do put all the work into reaching that level cap with the ultimate weapons, that you can easily handle the "boss".

Storywise it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but this is why most games include an equivalent of Ultimate Weapon type enemies. Even if you grind an insane amount, they are still a challenge.[/QUOTE]


Interesting points and yes, this is a problem between of developers trying to please a range of audience that always grind to not at all.
Personally, I like to have a the ending boss (or second to last boss) to be a difficult fight (without grinding). I agree with Zmonkay that the whole reason most people grind is to acquire those significantly high stat boost weapons/lvls/etc and feel incredibly powerful. If the last boss were to be still a challenge after attaining all those hours of game play, then it creates little incentive to grind at all.
Even more so, if grinding was necessary to complete then game then that can possibly shy away new audiences of rpgs to try or finish the game. The game development is a business, so I doubt they would do anything that could deter new audience from trying their games.

This is why side quests and side (ultimate/hidden) bosses with significantly higher stats and levels compared to the story bosses were created - to please the more extreme gamers. I find those to be the 'true' last boss (considering they would probably be the last boss I fight before putting the game down) after I already fight the games' ending boss.
 
Going off of the discussion of side-quests and final boss difficulty what is everyone's opinion on side-quests that are after the main game; such as appears in a lot of Tri-Ace games like Valkyrie Profile's Seraphic Gate.

Personally I really have no interest at all in that type of stuff, once I see the end of the game I rarely ever feel like playing it more... especially when there isn't any more story to see. With that said in the rare case where an extra epilogue follows the end of the game or something I'd do that, but if it is just to fight ridiculous bosses or do an insane dungeon I almost always pass.
 
Only time in recent memory I've bothered with those was in FFXIII... otherwise, I generally don't. They're usually in the new game + modes, though, and I absolutely never bother with those (except in like... Chrono Trigger.) I just hate the idea of playing through the game again, but having it be broken since I'm all powered up and stuff even if there's some nifty side quests involved.
 
Yep, pretty much once the credits roll, I'm done (except for NG+). My problem with post-game side quests is that they are usually just more grinding. Rarely is there any additional story elements. That was my biggest problem with FFXIII's "side quests". They were just more grinding against tougher foes.

Like, unless I'm mistaken, the Seraphic Gates didn't have any additional story elements, it was just an opportunity to keep fighting, wasn't it? (if I'm wrong, time to bust that back out!). I already felt I fought enough in the bigger dungeons, such as the Tower of Lezard Valeth.

I really think The Last Remnant, Lost Odyssey, Tales of the Abyss, and Mass Effect 2 (out of games from recent memory) did side quests right: They are completely optional, but tie into the overall story, characterization, or give interesting background information you wouldn't normally know, as well as gaining you useful abilities and of course the stat boosts from grinding through them.
 
Regarding postgame content, there has been some that have drawn me in, like the 100-level dungeon in Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo's Dungeon, the extra stratum in Etrian Odyssey (though I never got far with that one), and Tales of Legendia's character quests (which was just as long as the main game).

In general, though, I prefer my sidequests to be accessible before the final battle, not after. Once I see the credits roll, I consider that to be the "end".
 
I also don't care much for post game side quests. Even for games I really really like. Seeing the "Fin" at the end makes me feel content enough to drop the controller.

I think the Seraphic Gate had a couple talking scenes, but nothing that concerned the main plot. Quick question, beside Lezard who are the other character that will join you post game?
 
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