RPG Thread XIII-2: Tough Moms Always Die Young

Status
Not open for further replies.
[quote name='momouchi']Thoughts on Magna Carta, Suikoden 3, and Shadow Hearts From the New World? There is a B2G1 coming up and my GS has all of these. Are they worth it? I have a big backlog now, so I only want to pick up RPGs that could be hard to find and are excellent.[/QUOTE]

Funny, but two of those games (Suikoden III, Shadow Hearts From The New World) were amongst the selections at a panel at Anime USA last year of "The best RPGs not called Final Fantasy". I have a feeling, tho, that the people running the panel didn't have as complete knowledge of RPGs as they could, since it didn't seem that any of them had played the Persona series.

I remember the Shadow Hearts: FtNW recommendation came because one of the characters was apparently hilarious and made it all worth his time. He hadn't played any of the other Shadow Hearts games.
 
[quote name='eldergamer']And brick wall in Clash Of Heroes. Seems the only way to win the final battle on the Necromancer route is if your one-hit-kill reaper shows up in the center and can be ready to go in one turn or less.[/QUOTE]

If I recall correctly I beat it with zombies plus vampires with the spider cloak. The spider cloak starts you at 10% Hp but you can regain most of this with a hit on the boss from one vampire. So launch a couple vampires to regen your HP then just mass up walls, attack with zombies then mass zombies for defense against the dragons, the HP boost to all your activated groups is crazy.
 
[quote name='TheLongshot']Funny, but two of those games (Suikoden III, Shadow Hearts From The New World) were amongst the selections at a panel at Anime USA last year of "The best RPGs not called Final Fantasy". I have a feeling, tho, that the people running the panel didn't have as complete knowledge of RPGs as they could, since it didn't seem that any of them had played the Persona series.

I remember the Shadow Hearts: FtNW recommendation came because one of the characters was apparently hilarious and made it all worth his time. He hadn't played any of the other Shadow Hearts games.[/QUOTE]
Which is funny because the third Shadow Hearts game is quite disappointing compared to the other two games in the series.
 
Never beat any of the Shadow Hearts games but the closest I got was the third one. I've owned Covenant 3 different times and only got a few hours in each time. I swear I'm going to try harder one of these days, I just don't have a lot of free time to devote to older stuff anymore. I'm having a hard enough time just keeping up with all these new releases.

Got Zelda for as a early birthday present. Turning the big 30 tomorrow. :oldman:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Did any of you feel like Person 3 took awhile to actually get interesting? I needed some old school RPG and finally after about 18 hours into the game now I'm hooked. Progression wise I finished up the 2nd exams and off for vacation!
 
Persona 3 is just a really long game and is paced that way. I still just need to sit down with it and finish it. (I'm past new years now and have a month to go until the finale.)
 
Been finding time playing it on my PSP (so i'm on the P3P version). The save points in every location it has been easy to pick it up and play whenever I need to.

I'm kind of sold on the idea of playing Person 4 on the PS Vita.
 
I'd like to play Persona 2 again, but all that stuff about reliving High School and demons is too intense for me right now. I'm gotta idle back and take it easy. I loved the game when I played it though. The negotiations stuff was cool, and the dialogue was well-written and cleaned up. I've been playing Zelda I & II on the 3DS (ambassador program) and haven't played either in like, 20+ years and am getting stuck lol. But it's great fun playing those games again... It's like I'm a child playing them for the first time. I'm avoiding looking up FAQs if I can. :D
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']If I recall correctly I beat it with zombies plus vampires with the spider cloak. The spider cloak starts you at 10% Hp but you can regain most of this with a hit on the boss from one vampire. So launch a couple vampires to regen your HP then just mass up walls, attack with zombies then mass zombies for defense against the dragons, the HP boost to all your activated groups is crazy.[/QUOTE]


Which is just about how I beat her on Saturday. My champion unit never showed up. Another trick is having your vamps charged and ready to go two turns before she moves over in front of them in order get attacks in before her.

Suikoden 3 - boring. Shadow Hearts the first two are excellent. The third (FTNW) I couldnt be bothered to finish.

We're all living in the past. Are there so few RPGs of this generation worth playing?
 
[quote name='eldergamer']We're all living in the past. Are there so few RPGs of this generation worth playing?[/QUOTE]
Very few JRPGs. Lots of WRPGs.
 
hmm JRPGs in this generation in English available in America that I would consider top of the line? (PS3/360 era)

-Vesperia
-DQ9
-Valkyria Chronicles+VC2
-Radiant Historia

... oh god, that's all? and 3 of them are on portables?
i guess we're going back to the dark ages where you have to learn Japanese to play some of the better RPGs. seems like there's 2 or 3 Tales games, Ni no Kuni, and The Last Story/Xenoblade...
 
Fortunately we're getting Ni no Kuni PS3 and getting the Operation Rainfall 3 through NoE, so while we've been screwed out of playing a lot of the middle-tier JRPGs this gen, most of the best stuff has fortunately made it over.

I've got a bad feeling about Final Fantasy Type-0, though.
 
[quote name='fwbweux']Fortunately we're getting Ni no Kuni PS3[/QUOTE]

That game is one of the reasons why I own a PS3. I so very want to play that game.
 
I think there's been a decent amount of good JRPGs this gen. It doesn't compare to last gen, but I've still had enough high quality ones to keep me happy:

-Vesperia
-Lost Odyssey
-Devil Survivor
-Radiant Historia
-Valkyria Chronicles
-TWEWY
-Arc Rise Fantasia (I realize I am alone in liking this)
-Nier
-Demon's Souls
-Ys Seven and Oath in Felghana

And I've still got a few others I haven't gotten around to yet that I've heard great things about such as LoH: Trails in the Sky, Dark Souls, Solatorobo, SMT: Strange Journey, Etrian Odyssey, Rune Factory, Tactics Ogre, Fate/Extra, ZHP, and probably more.
 
[quote name='ihadFG']I think there's been a decent amount of good JRPGs this gen. It doesn't compare to last gen, but I've still had enough high quality ones to keep me happy:

-Vesperia
-Lost Odyssey
-Devil Survivor
-Radiant Historia
-Valkyria Chronicles
-TWEWY
-Arc Rise Fantasia (I realize I am alone in liking this)
-Nier
-Demon's Souls
-Ys Seven and Oath in Felghana

And I've still got a few others I haven't gotten around to yet that I've heard great things about such as LoH: Trails in the Sky, Dark Souls, Solatorobo, SMT: Strange Journey, Etrian Odyssey, Rune Factory, Tactics Ogre, Fate/Extra, ZHP, and probably more.[/QUOTE]

How many of those were as good as the greats from the PS1 or PS2 era, though? And like half of those games are SRPGs, and those don't count. That, and playing games on portables is sooooo lame. And the PSP's shitty video out prevents that from really being useful as anything but a portable :(

I think about the SMT games from last gen, or nearly anything Square did during the late 90's and it's just like... what the fuck happened. It's not nostalgia, either. A fair number of these games were ones I didn't play until recently.
 
[quote name='j-cart']Seriously, Demon's Souls and Dark Souls should be at the very top of that JRPG list.

Next up is Valkyria Chronicles.[/QUOTE]

Hell, Dark Souls is a better Zelda game than Skyward Sword is (first Zelda other than Spirit Tracks I'm not enjoying. Though I'll eventually finish this one. Spirit Tracks was traded returned since I got it used)
 
There are definitely some quality JRPGs from this generation. Just because they are on a portable system doesn't make them inferior to anything else. My top are TWEWY, Vesperia, Nier, and LOH: Trails in the Sky.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']How many of those were as good as the greats from the PS1 or PS2 era, though? And like half of those games are SRPGs, and those don't count. That, and playing games on portables is sooooo lame. And the PSP's shitty video out prevents that from really being useful as anything but a portable :(

I think about the SMT games from last gen, or nearly anything Square did during the late 90's and it's just like... what the fuck happened. It's not nostalgia, either. A fair number of these games were ones I didn't play until recently.[/QUOTE]

I agree,I think they reached their peak with the PS1.PS2 was good too,but no where near the quality of the PS1 titles.
 
[quote name='momouchi']Just because they are on a portable system doesn't make them inferior to anything else.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Some of the best and most interesting JRPGs this gen have been on portables (and that's not even counting a handful of excellent ports/remakes).

The genre as a whole has definitely changed from previous eras, but it's far from dead, and there's still plenty of worthwhile games to play.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']How many of those were as good as the greats from the PS1 or PS2 era, though? And like half of those games are SRPGs, and those don't count. That, and playing games on portables is sooooo lame. And the PSP's shitty video out prevents that from really being useful as anything but a portable :([/QUOTE]
what are the great jrpgs from those days?
i mean great like, i think they're indisputably great. not like "i liked it." i also mean it from when i played them. i think KH1 and KH2 sucked in retrospect but they thoroughly engrossed me at the time.

this is my list:

ps2/xbox/gc:
final fantasy 10, 12
dragon quest 8
persona 3, 4
tales of symphonia
suikoden 5
kingdom hearts 1, 2

ps1/n64
final fantasy 7, 8, 9
BoF3
chrono cross
suikoden 1, 2
dragon warrior 7
valkyrie profile
megaman legends 1, 2
xenogears
star ocean 2

i don't like putting down demon's souls and dark souls as jrpgs... i feel like they're much more action and reflex based. (same reason i left out crisis core for this gen.)

i also like portable RPGs, not because they're portable, but because the graphics requirement isn't as high and so they can put out games like the old days.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']How many of those were as good as the greats from the PS1 or PS2 era, though?[/QUOTE]

I'd take this gen over the PS1 gen easily, though I haven't played Xenogears yet. I already mentioned that this gen doesn't come close to last gen for RPGs, but still, there's a few I like from this gen that I'd put up there with my favorites from previous gens.

[quote name='kainzero']what are the great jrpgs from those days?
i mean great like, i think they're indisputably great. not like "i liked it." i also mean it from when i played them. i think KH1 and KH2 sucked in retrospect but they thoroughly engrossed me at the time.

this is my list:

ps2/xbox/gc:
final fantasy 10, 12
dragon quest 8
persona 3, 4
tales of symphonia
suikoden 5
kingdom hearts 1, 2

ps1/n64
final fantasy 7, 8, 9
BoF3
chrono cross
suikoden 1, 2
dragon warrior 7
valkyrie profile
megaman legends 1, 2
xenogears
star ocean 2

i don't like putting down demon's souls and dark souls as jrpgs... i feel like they're much more action and reflex based. (same reason i left out crisis core for this gen.)

i also like portable RPGs, not because they're portable, but because the graphics requirement isn't as high and so they can put out games like the old days.[/QUOTE]

I like how your ps1/n64 list is just a ps1 list. :lol: N64 had no RPGs (unless you want to count Paper Mario).

To add to your PS2 era list, I think Skies of Arcadia and some more SMT games could go on there.
 
The 32-bit era was defnitly my favorite era for JRPGs. So many great RPGs that it becamce difficult to keep up and play everything, and this is when I was teen and had nothing but time to waste.
 
[quote name='ihadFG']I like how your ps1/n64 list is just a ps1 list. :lol: N64 had no RPGs (unless you want to count Paper Mario).[/QUOTE]
i also have no xbox rpgs. heh.

if i wanted to be more strict and just turn it into timeless classics that i would have no qualms playing again and again...

i would take out ff12, KH1+2, ff9, bof3, and chrono cross. i might take out MML series because they're not really RPGs either.

there are also a lot of RPGs i haven't played.
 
What about the SNES era? Secret of Mana, Chronotrigger, Lufia, FF4, Tales of Phantasia, Bahamut's Lagoon, Mario RPG... I'd rank SNES above PS2 era, and after PS1 era myself.
 
[quote name='momouchi']There are definitely some quality JRPGs from this generation. Just because they are on a portable system doesn't make them inferior to anything else. My top are TWEWY, Vesperia, Nier, and LOH: Trails in the Sky.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sayin' they're inferior because they're on a portable. I'm saying I don't really enjoy playing them anywhere near as much because they're on a portable.
 
[quote name='eldergamer']
We're all living in the past. Are there so few RPGs of this generation worth playing?[/QUOTE]

If my PSP collection is any indication then yes.:D

Glad you beat her, second hardest boss in the game.

[quote name='Rodimus']The 32-bit era was defnitly my favorite era for JRPGs. So many great RPGs that it becamce difficult to keep up and play everything, and this is when I was teen and had nothing but time to waste.[/QUOTE]

True for me as well, it's rather easy to have a high opinion of a game when you remember the hour of awesomeness buried in 50 hours of level grinding and never ending dialog scripts.
 
[quote name='kainzero']what are the great jrpgs from those days?
i mean great like, i think they're indisputably great. not like "i liked it." i also mean it from when i played them. i think KH1 and KH2 sucked in retrospect but they thoroughly engrossed me at the time.

this is my list:

ps2/xbox/gc:
final fantasy 10, 12
dragon quest 8
persona 3, 4
tales of symphonia
suikoden 5
kingdom hearts 1, 2

ps1/n64
final fantasy 7, 8, 9
BoF3
chrono cross
suikoden 1, 2
dragon warrior 7
valkyrie profile
megaman legends 1, 2
xenogears
star ocean 2

i don't like putting down demon's souls and dark souls as jrpgs... i feel like they're much more action and reflex based. (same reason i left out crisis core for this gen.)

i also like portable RPGs, not because they're portable, but because the graphics requirement isn't as high and so they can put out games like the old days.[/QUOTE]

My list is pretty similar, though with more Shin Megami Tensei, particularly on the PS2.

One of the big things for me was that, particular during the PS1 era, there were a lot of lesser-known RPGs that tried some interesting new things. Stuff like Parasite Eve and Saga Frontier 2 -- they might not have been the greatest games out there, but they at least had the balls to do things a bit differently.

Now, it really does feel like we're getting the same anime-infused schlock over and over. And I don't mean the "mid-1990's when anime was good" stuff. I mean modern anime. Ugh. I've tried a lot of the RPGs on portables where there are supposedly all these amazing games that I totally needed to try... but it's pretty much the same garbage as on consoles, except for the Ys games and a couple others.

The Tales series is one of the worst offenders. For every Vesperia, we get like 8 Tales of Symphonia 2's and like 14 PSP games that all have the same goddamn plot, characters, settings, music, battle systems, etc. I have to wonder if the studio got shut down because Japan finally caught on to their shit. Pretty much anything NISA touches has the same problem, but there's no exception to the rule that their games are pure weeaboo dreck. And now, even Square can't make a good game. I enjoyed Crisis Core, but I don't think they've made anything truly great since FFXII.

Now Lost Odyssey? That game was pretty cool. Of course, it also came out 4 years ago so I feel like it might be time for a new RPG to come out on an HD system. I also think Falcom is pretty sweet, and I'm glad XSEED brings their shit out over here. That's like... the only example of a JRPG dev not fucking up that I can think of right now.

I dunno. I miss when RPGs were concise. You could read a few text boxes and know what was going on and still get a sense of characters' personalities. You could finish fights lickety split. There was something so satisfying about killing shit and watching your numbers get bigger at a rapid pace, and going slightly out of your way in a dungeon to find a totally rad weapon that lets you wreck the enemies that were giving you a hard time mere minutes ago. Good pacing goes a long way.

I also think it's unfortunate that we no longer live in a post-Evangelion world. Back then, it was cool to have lots of dark, destroyed environments and futuristic shit. Now, it's all about dat Haruhi and moe girls who are like... 7. And RPGs suck because of it.

And where the fuck has Mitsuda been?



tl;dr version: I love RPGs, but I hate RPGs right now.
 
That's one of the things I can't stand with JRPG's today,taking everything bad about anime and mixing together to make an extremely cliched story,and have it mixed with your anime archetype cast of characters.
 
off topic!!! but is any1 here going to MAGFEST?!?!

I still need a hotel roomshare... else I wont be able to go :cry:

we can hang out and adventure like real life RPGs!!

btw, I got Solatorobo and P3P for $40!!!
 
[quote name='JEKKI']off topic!!! but is any1 here going to MAGFEST?!?!

I still need a hotel roomshare... else I wont be able to go :cry:

we can hang out and adventure like real life RPGs!![/QUOTE]

I'm going, although I don't know if I'm gonna get a room since I don't live too far away (about 40 minutes) and hotels are expensive. If I were splitting the costs with multiple people I'd consider getting a room though.
 
[quote name='JEKKI']off topic!!! but is any1 here going to MAGFEST?!?!

I still need a hotel roomshare... else I wont be able to go :cry:

we can hang out and adventure like real life RPGs!!

btw, I got Solatorobo and P3P for $40!!![/QUOTE]

P3P is on sale?

Fuuuucccckkkk I need more moneys.
 
[quote name='JEKKI']off topic!!! but is any1 here going to MAGFEST?!?![/QUOTE]

I'm actually going, for the first time. But, I'm not getting a room since the con is drivable for me.
 
lol u guys wanna make sum $$$?!?! let me stay with yallz!! I'll buys u guys dinner too!! one for each night!!

I have no problem sleeping on floors, jus plz provide me blankets coz I bet east coast is frikken COLDDDDDD~~~

:cold:
 
[quote name='ChibiJosh']Atelier Totori was amazing, and I'll fight anyone who attempts to say otherwise.[/QUOTE]

I'd knock your ass out.
 
The problem is not that the portable RPGs aren't great its that it just doesn't feel like an epic (in literary terms).

We all want that gran experience on our big ass HD televisions and we just haven't had one during this HD generation. Sure there were attempts like the WKC series and FF13, but those games didn't try at anything. Playing it safe cost them their marks and lowered the Japanese video game involvement a little bit more. Then you have Demon's Souls and Dark Souls that went against the traditional JRPG and said fuck everyone, lets try something different. It worked for those that enjoyed it but still made a lot of others hate the concept of hard games.

We are hoping that FF verses 13 is going to be that epic, but it might be too late to the party. It is clear though that a majority, not all, Japanese developers have no idea what to do/make. Thus we just end up getting PS2 RPGs being made on the PSP. Which is not a bad thing, but not what could be considered that next great epic.

At the same time, I don't think Americans can connect with these pansy characters that most JRPGs contain. In the past you had strong male leads, but now unless you play the game a bit sometimes you have to question the main character's sexual orientation. I mean come on, name a current gen RPG that had BOTH a strong male lead and strong male villain?
 
[quote name='j-cart']The problem is not that the portable RPGs aren't great its that it just doesn't feel like an epic (in literary terms).

We all want that gran experience on our big ass HD televisions and we just haven't had one during this HD generation.[/QUOTE]
Not that I don't like me some pretty, pretty games, but over the years I've played JRPGs, I've come to value great game mechanics above all else, and there's a good deal of that on the DS, at least. TWEWY and the Etrian Odyssey series are two of the best things to happen to JRPGs this gen (and would be nearly impossible on any system other than the DS), and the roguelike/mystery dungeon revival that went on not too long ago was pretty awesome.

It helps that I like smaller, more intimate stories as well as big epics. A lot of handheld games try to do the epic thing, but it's these small stories that really shine. A shame that there's so few of them...

[quote name='j-cart']At the same time, I don't think Americans can connect with these pansy characters that most JRPGs contain.[/QUOTE]
Nah, I think it's just that JRPGs (and traditional console genres in general) have become unfashionable. Some of the most popular console genres now used to be found (and were most popular) largely on PCs: FPSes and WRPGs. If someone does a really outstanding and mainstream RTS on a console, I bet you anything that that genre will be next.

The game industry goes through trends, just like anything else. Once the next international blockbuster JRPG comes along - and there hasn't been one since FFVII, which featured at least three prettyboy male villains (Cloud's a little more debatable) - then we'll see the genre's popularity go up again.
 
[quote name='elessar123']What about the SNES era? Secret of Mana, Chronotrigger, Lufia, FF4, Tales of Phantasia, Bahamut's Lagoon, Mario RPG... I'd rank SNES above PS2 era, and after PS1 era myself.[/QUOTE]
My SNES/Genesis list:

Final Fantasy 4, 5, 6, Mystic Quest
Dragon Quest 5, 6
Breath of Fire
Chrono Trigger
Lufia 2
Earthbound
Romancing SaGa 3
Secret of Mana, Seiken Densetsu 3
Super Mario RPG

Sword of Vermillion
Shining Force 1, 2
Phantasy Star 4

[quote name='Chacrana']One of the big things for me was that, particular during the PS1 era, there were a lot of lesser-known RPGs that tried some interesting new things. Stuff like Parasite Eve and Saga Frontier 2 -- they might not have been the greatest games out there, but they at least had the balls to do things a bit differently.[/quote]
I think the fact that they try to do things differently ends up biting them in the ass. We looked at PE and SF2 as new and original. Then we get a game like Unlimited SaGa which is mass ridiculed in the media but it sold well in Japan. A game like Resonance of Fate tried to do a lot of things differently, even from the narrative point of view (most of the exposition is done from the perspective of other characters, not your own) and it's mildly received.

Another thing to look at is the fact that there just aren't that many big budget JRPGs in this generation, period. If we discount Atlus and NISA, we have the following games:

Blue Dragon
Dark Souls/Demon's Souls
Eternal Sonata
FF 13
Infinite Undiscovery
The Last Remnant
Lost Odyssey
NieR
Resonance of Fate
Star Ocean 4
Valkyria Chronicles
Vesperia
WKC

14 titles. That's less than my legendary list for SNES/Genesis era.
 
[quote name='kainzero']My SNES/Genesis list:

Final Fantasy 4, 5, 6, Mystic Quest
Dragon Quest 5, 6
Breath of Fire
Chrono Trigger
Lufia 2
Earthbound
Romancing SaGa 3
Secret of Mana, Seiken Densetsu 3
Super Mario RPG

Sword of Vermillion
Shining Force 1, 2
Phantasy Star 4


I think the fact that they try to do things differently ends up biting them in the ass. We looked at PE and SF2 as new and original. Then we get a game like Unlimited SaGa which is mass ridiculed in the media but it sold well in Japan. A game like Resonance of Fate tried to do a lot of things differently, even from the narrative point of view (most of the exposition is done from the perspective of other characters, not your own) and it's mildly received.

Another thing to look at is the fact that there just aren't that many big budget JRPGs in this generation, period. If we discount Atlus and NISA, we have the following games:

Blue Dragon
Dark Souls/Demon's Souls
Eternal Sonata
FF 13
Infinite Undiscovery
The Last Remnant
Lost Odyssey
NieR
Resonance of Fate
Star Ocean 4
Valkyria Chronicles
Vesperia
WKC

14 titles. That's less than my legendary list for SNES/Genesis era.[/QUOTE]

Demon's Souls doesn't count as Atlus?
 
[quote name='Chacrana']And where the fuck has Mitsuda been?[/QUOTE]
Arc Rise Fantasia, 6/2/2009 - Wii
BQLSI Star Laser, 8/5/2009 - iPhone App
Inazuma Eleven 2: Invading Threat, 10/1/2009 - DS
Luminous Arc 3: Eyes, 12/10/2009 - DS
Xenoblade, 6/10/2010 - Wii
Inazuma Eleven 3: Challenging the World, 7/1/2010 - DS
KORG M01, 12/3/2010 - DS
Tokyo Yamanote Boys HONEY MILK, 4/28/2011 - PC
Treasure Report: Mechanical Legacy, 5/26/2011 - DS
Yuusha 30 Seconds (NA: Half-Minute Hero 2) 8/4/2011 - PSP

Wondering what Tokyo Yamanote Boys is?
Treasure Report is just a rip off of Layton.
 
[quote name='elessar123']Demon's Souls doesn't count as Atlus?[/QUOTE]
it doesn't count as low-budget atlus. =)
 
Agreed. My RPG need has been satisfied by the :ds: now. (Etrian Odyssey, TWEWY, Devil Survivor, etc, etc)

The :ps3: has now been my system more for the action/adventure type games. (Uncharted, Bioshock, AC, etc etc)

They're different systems and set up to do different things. The RPG hasn't died, it's just moved to a smaller screen.

Now, whether the tradional turn-based RPG (all those items and menus!) can survive in the new world of 3DS and Vita is another story.
 
[quote name='eldergamer']Agreed. My RPG need has been satisfied by the :ds: now. (Etrian Odyssey, TWEWY, Devil Survivor, etc, etc)

The :ps3: has now been my system more for the action/adventure type games. (Uncharted, Bioshock, AC, etc etc)

They're different systems and set up to do different things. The RPG hasn't died, it's just moved to a smaller screen.

Now, whether the tradional turn-based RPG (all those items and menus!) can survive in the new world of 3DS and Vita is another story.[/QUOTE]
I agree a lot with the rpg moving to a smaller screen, especially in terms of the psp, which has rocked some great rpgs.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
bread's done
Back
Top